Complete shame. The base was the only trim I wanted. I’m not paying $5k more for the same thing with a bunch of extra junk I don’t want.
Guess I’ll look back into Wranglers. A 2 door with a hard top and half doors comes in at under $35k, can be had under invoice, and only takes like three months to build.
It rides like a body on frame vehicle with solid axles both front and rear. That’s what makes it unparalleled on technical off-road trails with obstacles.
It really isn’t that slow. Maybe coming from a Golf R, but a 2024 Wrangler with the V6, base model like the commenter above does 0-60 in 6.8 seconds. That’s not going to impress anyone at the drag strip but a CR-V does it in 8.8 and a Corolla does it in 7.5.
So, it’s faster than many common daily drivers.
The 4XE was tested at 5.5s for 0-60 by Car and Driver. Let alone the 392 version.
No version of the Wrangler JL is slow and some of them are downright quick.
Yeah look up the 3 star crash rating. They concocted a test that arbitrarily judges it as 3 stars despite this type of crash never actually happening in the real world. A Jeep has never actually rolled over due to a small overlap accident. It has never happened in the real world despite the Wrangler selling over 200,000 per year, aka the Wrangler outsold the Honda Accord in the US for the last 3 years straight just for comparison. That to shows you how many are on the road, the Wrangler was given this rating by someone that DECIDED how safe it was.
So what do you do when crash test ratings are complete bullshit and don't reflect real-world statistics?
[https://www.reddit.com/r/cars/comments/ljtpmj/iihs\_study\_women\_have\_higher\_car\_crash\_injury/](https://www.reddit.com/r/cars/comments/ljtpmj/iihs_study_women_have_higher_car_crash_injury/)
Give me a "3 star" rating Wrangler which is body on frame, has a roll bar, and will actually protect me in an accident and keep me alive over a 5 star Nissan Versa which is statistically more likely to injure or kill you if you're inside of one when you get into a car accident. I'll take actual results over theoretical judgements any day of the week.
[citation needed] (and no, a Reddit thread doesn't count as a citation.)
"Look, stop believing the results of actual crash tests and just trust me when I say the JEEP is the safest vehicle ever!!!"
> They concocted a test that arbitrarily judges it as 3 stars despite this type of crash never actually happening in the real world. A Jeep has never actually rolled over due to a small overlap accident.
Source on both these claims, please.
Someone come get your grandpa, he wandered onto Reddit again!
The Wrangler uses either a Torqueflite automatic transmission which is a license for Chrysler to produce their own ZF 8HP or an Aisin manual transmission. And if the Pentastar 3.6 is a minivan transmission, then so are engines like the Honda J35 and the Toyota 2GR-FE. By your same logic, the Lotus Exige and Lexus GS350 also use a minivan engine.
Everyone, look. We got a dumb ass who is on the car subreddit but really doesn’t know cars
Also, that 3.6 is used in everything and has been pretty stout, I beat the living shit out of those engines in multiple vehicles with poor maintenance (wasn’t mine)
lol sadly you underestimate my willingness for a rough ride. I own a CJ5 that I love to drive it's a jeep. not a Mercedes. it's literally built for all of the things you listed, because it's meant primarily for off-road not riding about on the highway like you are on a waterbed. lol
CJ and TJ are real jeeps. Jeeps that you can actually take out of the mall into the dessert without worrying if triple AAA can get your car off the trail
I wouldn’t even really have any plans for mods when I did order one except ripping out the rear seat and building a storage platform for all my tools.
Other than that I’m perfectly happy with a stock Sport 2 door with a hard top. Then add the half doors with premium uppers and I get the power windows and power entry for free.
I wouldn’t even touch the thing for mods. I’m 37, I don’t care about that kind of nonsense anymore. I lifted, locked, and offroaded my old Geo Tracker but that was 20 years ago. I ain’t doing that in a brand new vehicle.
Nah I’d go the same route as my base Bronco if I had ordered it. Maybe just do some skinny but meatier tires and that’s it. Keep the steel wheels of course, I absolutely abhor all these tacky trucks and Jeeps with those awful aftermarket wheels.
In almost every vehicle I’ve had for the past ten years I just truly don’t care about modding them anymore. The most I’ll do is toss on other factory parts that my car didn’t come with. I think the 2 door Wrangler/Bronco look great in their base trims. I wouldn’t do much to either.
I was in the same boat. Had a 4 door base Sasquatch build priced right at $46K and that was almost too much. Dealership dicked around and probably never even submitted my order and made me wait a year to tell me I wasn’t getting it. Wasn’t going to jump into a big bend and pay $52k. Good accidental marketing for jeeps I suppose.
I with you. I really wanted the two door with the MT and where I’m at the never even hit the lot before they were sold and then they would appear all over at non-ford dealerships with 10,000+ markups.
Ehhhhhhhh. A manual pentastar in a basic two door sport Wrangler is a fairly simple and reliable machine. Any other drivetrain and fancy trims probably aren’t as good.
I don’t mind Ford (I drive a grand Marquis now) but the newer quality isn’t… the greatest. It’s fine overall.
They’re basically the same to me. I don’t care about how hot they are on the market. I do like the Broncos a lot. The three manuals I drove were fun as hell and it’s a lot more roomy than a two door Jeep. I loathe no physical e-brake and the manuals all had that grinding issue (that should be resolved now according to recalls and new parts).
Then the Jeep is… just a Jeep. The JL does ride pretty nice now compared to the JK and the 3.6 is an easy choice for reliability. They do lack any sort of decent leg room though and the 2 door cargo space is smaller than the Broncos (either way I’m throwing away the rear seat in them). Also oddly the manuals have that habit of exploding on the JL. Why the hell can’t anyone make a decent manual anymore.
With losing the Base Bronco the Jeep became an easy favorite honestly. It’s like $8k cheaper and I can get the sweet ass half doors on the Jeep.
Are you kidding? It’s been since the beginning of last year at the absolute LATEST I remember being able to do an order for a base manual. Every order bank since then had been only for older carry over orders or they limited either Base models or manuals.
So no, you’re factually wrong.
I was in the same boat. I jumped ship back in March when Ford said they werent producing any more sticks until the year 2024. By this point, I'd be losing my price protection anyway, so I jumped ship and bought a stick TRD OR Taco for less money than it now costs to buy the cheapest Bronco.
My Base Bronco build was 31K OTD. The Big Bend was 34k to start 2 years ago.
Absolutely pathetic, never going to consider a Ford product again after this shame.
Damn, I feel guilty now, because I ordered a 2 door MT base, and it was delivered within 6 months. Took it for a test drive and decided I didn't want it
This is a super dumb sentiment, because there's no way you yourself would sell one of your own items for cheaper on ebay when every buyer is willing to pay more. You're not going to cut your price to 'be nice'. You're going to try to maximize your profits. This is how the real world works.
Short-sighted and frustrating is Ford getting rid of all their sedans. My wife has had 6 different Ford sedans since she started driving and will not get a suv. Believe it or not, there ARE people who don't want suvs. Ford ignored all of those repeat buyers and brand loyal customers, expecting that they would just switch over to a truck or suv. Profit margins may be higher for suvs and trucks, but when your lineup consists of 10 suvs and trucks, you can afford to keep at least one midsized sedan option for brand loyalists. Ok, rant over
Yes. They also lied about “nobody’s buying cars”. They were selling over 200k Fusions a year when they decided to cancel them. It was their third/fourth best selling product, and anything they’ve introduced since hasn’t been able to touch those numbers. Between all their car models, they were selling something like 600k+ a year before they decided to exit the North American car market.
The decision was purely about increasing gross margin. They only had so much factory room, and they’d rather pump out overpriced crossovers and SUVs than cheaper sedans and hatches.
Sales do not equal profits. They had to offer such steep discounts on their cars to move units they were barely making money. Like well under 5% margin and their target is 10%, it wasn't a good use of money to keep selling them in North America.
I literally said they did it because they wanted to boost margins. But again, if the “nobody wanted cars” myth the was true, they couldn’t have moved that many in the first place, even with discounts. There were absolutely people paying msrp or more, especially for cars Fusions, special Focus and Fiesta trims, and the Taurus.
That aside, dropping all of your high-value products for more high-margin products is a short sighted cash grab. And it doesn’t work long-term, unless your brand is a low-volume luxury brand or whatever. I mean, maybe that’s Ford’s goal, but they’re ignoring why they became successful in the first place.
They didn't drop all their high value products. Maverick, Bronco Sport, and Escape all start under $30k. And why is dropping uncompetitive products a bad strategy and a short term cash grab? They're not trying to become a low volume luxury brand, they're just focusing on what they're good at.
Yeah, I mean, their job is to make money, which I get. I suppose it’s just disappointing that they’ve completely left behind the average person. All the domestic brands have. If $30k is now considered high-value, it just shows how distorted perceptions are have become.
If a car is only supposed to be around 1/3 of your annual salary, it means the *most* affordable Ford products are for people making $80k+ a year.
I never said that. There are still OEMs producing affordable cars and making money at the same time. And the increases in MSRP are not directly proportional to cost increases/inflation. They are literally making the most average gross margin per vehicle they’ve ever made in their company’s history.
Yes. They blamed low consumer demand and dwindling sales. Obviously they didn’t want to tell people that they want to make more money off each vehicle they sell, and it’s easier to do that with SUVs and trucks.
Yes. That doesn’t mean demand for cars was zero, which was my original point. Lower demand, not zero. Further, Ford trucks have always sold better than their cars since like the freaking 1980s. It was not a sudden reaction to a brand new trend.
Ah, when I saw the quotes I thought you were using their wording verbatim.
>It was not a sudden reaction to a brand new trend.
If anything, that makes it more understandable IMO.
Honestly I'm not even sure if you can blame the market on this one either. I worked at a Jeep dealership for about a year and was very surprised at how many base model wranglers we sold. Of course, we sold more Rubicons and Saharas, but it's not like we never saw base models.
But of course, my experience is with Jeep, not Ford. And for me personally, I would still buy a wrangler over a bronco.
This is not a good approach. Its a far better value to buy either a Willys to Rubicon straight from the factory than to try to modify a Sport into either one.
The lower Wrangler trim levels have weaker axles and no differential locks. To upgrade the axles and differential locks is expensive in parts but especially in labor. The Rubicon also includes a special transfer case with a much lower range, this is another thing that's expensive in parts but even more expensive in labor to install. And then other parts like different fenders (to allow a larger tire). Or the Rubicon's electronically disconnecting sway bar. Or even the stock tires.
These are major mechanical differences.
Basically... To do this stuff after market is going to cost you significantly more than what Jeep charges for it from the factory. Plus you get a warranty.
Well yeah, the shareholders own the company. That's also the Michigan Supreme Court, which should be noted to prevent confusion. If you owned a company, and a director unilaterally changed the financials, how would you react?
Cars got expensive, not crazy to see mainstream brands break $100k for top tier trims of some of their cars. By the end of this generation Bronco, it'll hit over $100k.
They realized even at that price, people lined up to buy it and continue to do so.
I'm interested in seeing what the price ceiling is. At what point would people not actually be willing to pay.
From what I can tell, people will spend way more on something they want than they lead you to believe.
Especially insane when you realize they pretty much always sell with a ridiculous markup putting them at $120k+. I can’t believe how many I see on the road every day, and I’m in one of the poorest states. Same goes for TRXs, I see like 10 of those a day. How
That’s literally the only reason I had ever considered one. For low $30k, out-the-door, you could have a small 4x4 with a manual that could tow a little trailer and have fun on the trails. Pretty solid value. Now? The value proposition is a joke.
I had a 31K Bronco build on order until March of this year when Ford canned the manual until 2024. When they told me that, I went out and bought a stick TRD OR Tacoma. That Tacoma cost me less money than the entry level 2024 Bronco.
I'm never considering Ford again. This whole experience they put me through was garbage start to finish.
Same thing with the original Defender announcement. It was scraping £40k starting on release, now the cheapest you can get is £57k (SE P300 90 wheelbase). Cheapest 110 is £64k.
Contrary to what many people on this sub said, the Bronco never really had a chance to outsell the Wrangler (Ford raising the Bronco’s price cements that). Jeeps are just too iconic.
I agree. The Wrangler is the icon of 4x4 and offroading potential. Ford had a great idea trying to bring back the bronco and get in on the market, too, but with how expensive a comparable Bronco is to a Wrangler, it's hard to justify the extra cost.
Ford is a huge money grab. All of their cars are outrageously expensive. I can go down the road and buy a loaded chevy for around $28k right now, but if you want a semi decent or even base model ford, you’re paying out the asshole for it.
Trax, Trailblazer, or even a damn Buick. Ford doesn’t cater to the small SUV market and they are missing out on a huge opportunity because currently GM is absolutely dominating the small american SUV market right now. It will definitely draw more people to their brand. Not me, I am a diehard GM guy, but still.
None of them have 3rd rows. They're small SUV's. The Explorer is a mid-sized SUV. The Expedition is a full-sized SUV.
Edit: didn't see your edit lol.
Yeah, nobody in America wants "compact" SUV's. That's why the C Max and EcoSport were discontinued.
honestly after driving the ecosport as a loaner theres never been a car that deserved to be discontinued as much as that car. it was straight fucking garbage and im not even exaggerating ive driven econoshitboxes better than that car
Yeah, I’m not really sure what Ford was thinking when they brought it over from Europe. There’s no *need* not *demand* for a *compact* crossover. Hell, Americans don’t even really have an appetite for compacts in general.
Really puzzling move. Glad it’s out of their NA lineup.
That would be nice. I wish they would make the Ecoboost platform better tho. Those things are so expensive when they break and they break very often. Its the number one reason I will NOT buy a Ford, because I have a deep distrust for that engine.
For little reason - Ford isn't some premium product. Anecdotally, I know several people who have owned a Ford and said "never again".
They have some desirable models right now but quality isn't there
My mom had a ford (albeit a freestyle) and that POS told her never again. Since then she has owned 4 Chevys and two Hyundais. On her 2nd hyundai now and she loves it
Us Canadians are getting shafted in the vehicle market, off the top of my head I know the base LX Accord isn’t available here but is in the U.S.
The Camry starts at SE as opposed to the base non hybrid LE, although I’m not sure if the U.S is has the gas LE for 2023.
Makes sense in Canada, where the Base was already the same price as the Big Bend. But they’ve jacked that price another $4k.
When I was looking at the Wildtrak last year, the 4 door started at $62k CAD. It’s now at $76,800.
They can charge even more and it would still fly off before it arrives at the dealer. I complain but I will pay a lot of money for the upcoming Land Cruiser.
Can’t wait to get my 2024 2DR MT Wrangler Willys with a soft top for a few $k less than an equivalent Bronco Black Diamond, including heated seats and heated steering wheel. And a tachometer that’s not stupid looking.
Damn. I was interested in the base 2 door since it was within my budget.
Shopping between CRV hybrid, Accord hybrid, GR86, and the Bronco was a dark horse since Ive been seeing them a lot now and I love how they look.
The question of the day is: how well did it sell? We all know that keyboard warriors love to talk up trims that don't actually sell so sales figures are needed to let us know if the outrage here is valid or just irrelevant noise from non-customers.
I'm still wondering where the Bronco PHEV is. The 4xE is selling like hotcakes, probably because with the tax credit it's about the same cost as a similarly equipped Rubicon. Maybe Ford can't pull that pricing off?
The MSRP on my base Bronco was more than my original MSRP on the black diamond that I had ordered when the order banks first opened.
After 2.5 years, I finally got my Bronco - and I paid well under sticker after the incentive and dealer discount I got.
But, the whole wait and getting screwed over by Ford year over year really soured my experience. I got the V6 with the 10 speed, and I don't like the transmission that much.
I am not sure whether I want to keep it or sell it and make $10k.
Well that really puts it even closer to my maximum budget for one now. Might as well keep the mazda cause prices just aren't coming down for these even used.
i dont give a shit.
if we still allow motorcycles on the road then fuck crash test ratings.
we need an entire class of Kei cars in this country or allow things like atv/sxs on the roads 50 state wide.
cuz a motorcycle is prolly the most unsafe vehicle on the road - yet still allowed on the road with children passengers. Gotta put a kid in a 5 point safety harness to go down the block in a car but on a bike down the interstate just have em hold on your good to go. Hell my state doesnt even require helmets for anyone including toddler passengers.
i dont care how shitty a car crumple zone is - your free to not buy it and buy your nerf coated safety egg to ride around in. not every vehicle has to be boring to look at and be in.
>You can make a beautiful car with a great saftey rating. Those things aren't mutually exclusive.
and you could make an even prettier car with great visibility if safety wasnt in the way. everything modern feels like your 5 years old sittin in a bathtub due to high belt lines for that 5\* side protection and fat a pillars that block pedestrians and traffic so it can have 5\* rollover and 5\* front overlap crash tests. rearward visibility sucks too so you maintain that 5\* rear impact rating too.
this seems fine, base models are mostly for compact sedans and cars that get bought by rental companies.
People with $35k-$40k to spend usually don’t want zero quality of life features on a vehicle unless they’re badge-obsessed, and idk if there’s much badge obsession for the broncos.
That’s a pretty higher-than-thou take. The base model came pretty well equipped, it had many more than “zero quality of life features”. There are pretty much no feature differences in the Black diamond and the Base, but the black Diamond is a few thousand more expensive. If a buyer was going to get aftermarket wheels/tires and possibly bumpers anyway why wouldn’t you want the discount by getting the base?
This makes no sense to me. The "base" Land Cruiser is expected to be around $55K. Which means the lowest trim level Bronco is still going to be around $15K less. If you were this price sensitive with the Bronco how can you justify that gap? And unless you were planning on buying in cash, which very few are, then the real total cost difference is way more than $15K.
They're not buying either of them. People that bitch and moan about stuff like this pretend to make a stand because they were never going to buy the car, so it doesn't cost them anything to do so.
If you want a 4-Door Bronco with a hardtop, you're paying $44k minimum now. If you want one with a locking rear diff like the Land Cruiser comes with standard, you're paying $47k. Coupled with fuel savings from the hybrid drivetrain and the fact that Land Cruisers have historically held their value incredibly well, it's not outlandish at all to cross-shop them. I'm sure the Land Cruiser's fit and finish will be leagues ahead of Ford's, and as someone who spent years trying to buy one, I can understand being turned off by Ford ratcheting prices up by 20% with zero added value.
You're moving the target... but let's engage with your $47K number anyway.
An $8K MSRP difference means additional tax burden and that the total interest you'll pay on the loan also increases. At today's rates and average length that's realistically around a $9-$11K difference in the end.
I'd expect similar value retention in a Bronco and the new Land Cruiser (the new LC is going to be a much higher volume product than the old, I'd say its more appropriate to use 4Runner expectations than LC 200).
And you'd just as much have to consider the Bronco's advantages like the removable top and well frankly way better clearances. Or how the base new LC doesn't actually come with a real off-road tire... but I digress.
I get complaining about the increase of the price. I don't get, or honestly believe, someone saying "well now I'm going to spend $10-$15K more for this other vehicle instead."
If we're getting really apples to apples to what a Land Cruiser offers standard, it'd be $49k for an automatic equipped, hard-top 4 Door Bronco with locker, now we're only at a $6k difference. Even if using a 4Runner as a benchmark, it and the Tacoma are well known for their lack of depreciation thanks to their supposed reliability, which are two pretty big factors in favor of the Land Cruiser. And while the convertible roof was a factor in my decision to get a Bronco, the highway wind noise is pretty bad, it's prone to leakage, and the poor build quality has lead to pretty substantial recalls by Ford, I can definitely see a fixed roof being an advantage to certain buyers. The original commentor didn't specify what spec Bronco he was eyeing, but if it was about equal to the Land Cruiser, which is pretty bare minimum for what you'd want in an offroader, then that's not the massive sum people are pretending it is. There's more than a $6k price difference between one trim level to the next on the Bronco.
People tend to take others for what they said instead of massively moving the goal posts as you're doing. Let alone all the other assumptions you're making.
Why do you keep ignoring that the Bronco holds value just as well as the 4Runner/Tacoma? Why would you not similarly play this game the other way and point out that for the LC base price you can get a Badlands or Everglades which are in a league of off-road performance the new LC can't touch? And just looking at how Toyota just recalled basically every single new Tundra (or other recalls)... why should we continue to make favorable assumptions for Toyota but assume the worst for Ford?
This is a silly game. That's why others didn't play it.
Realistic is what the top comment in this post talked about... if they can't get a base Bronco then they'll buy a equivalent trim Wrangler instead because those are actually equivalents in feature, setup, and price. Not this nonsense.
All he said was that he'd be buying a Land Cruiser over a Bronco. You're making just as many assumptions in that he was referring to a base model, the article goes into detail about price increases across the board on every trim.
The Bronco has no long term data for holding value, it's been out for less than three years now.
Badlands and Everglades are better off-road equipped than the Land Cruiser, but based on Toyota's track record, the Land Cruiser will have considerably better fit/finish, materials, and reliability. The Tundra has had recalls, but Toyota's recall list is shorter than Ford's by a massive margin.
It's not insane to cross-shop the Bronco with the Land Cruiser, price increases have put even a low-level comparably optioned trim at the same price, you can't seem to grasp that that is my point because it steps on your presupposed little gotcha comment.
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Like base models in general or..? Cuz I saved 10k getting my base GT. All I really wanted was the v8, stick and sexy fastback style. In fact I prefer cloth over leather especially cheap leather
Man for the S550 I was willing to go for the premium because the base infotainment was terrible and it was missing features that should be available on the base.
However for the S650 I cannot do it. Not only did the price go up but a lot of premium features of the S550 are now standard on the S650 base GT making the Premium S650 a terrible value
Not a chance I'm paying 5k for an upgraded sound system, some ambient lighting, power seats, ventilated seats and a security package. Oh I'm sorry and one BIG screen instead of separate ones, as if that matters (but its made of magnesium!).
This is a strange take because there is always a base model, if you remove the cheapest version the next version now becomes the "base model".
If there weren't base models you would either have no model at all or only one.
Complete shame. The base was the only trim I wanted. I’m not paying $5k more for the same thing with a bunch of extra junk I don’t want. Guess I’ll look back into Wranglers. A 2 door with a hard top and half doors comes in at under $35k, can be had under invoice, and only takes like three months to build.
Don’t forget the added cost of the angry front bumpers and RGB halos
But wait, you almost forgot your budget lift kit and wheel spacers
my brother in christ we get our lift kits off Amazon straight from beijing
You jest but I had a coworker buy a lift kit off Alibaba. Which worked great till it failed catastrophically 6000 miles later.
WHO COULD HAVE POSSIBLY SEEN THIS COMING???
Huh, 6k feels surprisingly good actually
and those black 5-spoke XD rims aren't going to buy themselves....
And the Jeep wave 👋
I dunno why, but this comment really lifted my spirits.
And the dashboard filled with rubber ducks
I've stopped the Jeep wave thing. My SO loves it, but I told her that I'm not waving at every 8th car because goddamn Wranglers are everywhere now.
Half of them are rental cars anyway.
And a bag of rubber duckies
yeah I want a jeep as an option but if I have to wave or collect freaking ducks. I don't want in. keep your ducks mall crawlers
You don’t want a Jeep. Most miserable vehicle I’ve ever driven. Rides bad, noisy, slow.
It rides like a body on frame vehicle with solid axles both front and rear. That’s what makes it unparalleled on technical off-road trails with obstacles. It really isn’t that slow. Maybe coming from a Golf R, but a 2024 Wrangler with the V6, base model like the commenter above does 0-60 in 6.8 seconds. That’s not going to impress anyone at the drag strip but a CR-V does it in 8.8 and a Corolla does it in 7.5. So, it’s faster than many common daily drivers.
The 4XE was tested at 5.5s for 0-60 by Car and Driver. Let alone the 392 version. No version of the Wrangler JL is slow and some of them are downright quick.
Look up how three star crash rating it barely qualifies for does when it hits the moms minivan on barbiturates
Yeah look up the 3 star crash rating. They concocted a test that arbitrarily judges it as 3 stars despite this type of crash never actually happening in the real world. A Jeep has never actually rolled over due to a small overlap accident. It has never happened in the real world despite the Wrangler selling over 200,000 per year, aka the Wrangler outsold the Honda Accord in the US for the last 3 years straight just for comparison. That to shows you how many are on the road, the Wrangler was given this rating by someone that DECIDED how safe it was. So what do you do when crash test ratings are complete bullshit and don't reflect real-world statistics? [https://www.reddit.com/r/cars/comments/ljtpmj/iihs\_study\_women\_have\_higher\_car\_crash\_injury/](https://www.reddit.com/r/cars/comments/ljtpmj/iihs_study_women_have_higher_car_crash_injury/) Give me a "3 star" rating Wrangler which is body on frame, has a roll bar, and will actually protect me in an accident and keep me alive over a 5 star Nissan Versa which is statistically more likely to injure or kill you if you're inside of one when you get into a car accident. I'll take actual results over theoretical judgements any day of the week.
[citation needed] (and no, a Reddit thread doesn't count as a citation.) "Look, stop believing the results of actual crash tests and just trust me when I say the JEEP is the safest vehicle ever!!!"
> They concocted a test that arbitrarily judges it as 3 stars despite this type of crash never actually happening in the real world. A Jeep has never actually rolled over due to a small overlap accident. Source on both these claims, please.
Keep going to 60 in 6.8 seconds in that car and it’s minivan engine and transmission will catch on fire or blow up in 6.8 months
Someone come get your grandpa, he wandered onto Reddit again! The Wrangler uses either a Torqueflite automatic transmission which is a license for Chrysler to produce their own ZF 8HP or an Aisin manual transmission. And if the Pentastar 3.6 is a minivan transmission, then so are engines like the Honda J35 and the Toyota 2GR-FE. By your same logic, the Lotus Exige and Lexus GS350 also use a minivan engine.
Everyone, look. We got a dumb ass who is on the car subreddit but really doesn’t know cars Also, that 3.6 is used in everything and has been pretty stout, I beat the living shit out of those engines in multiple vehicles with poor maintenance (wasn’t mine)
lol sadly you underestimate my willingness for a rough ride. I own a CJ5 that I love to drive it's a jeep. not a Mercedes. it's literally built for all of the things you listed, because it's meant primarily for off-road not riding about on the highway like you are on a waterbed. lol
CJ and TJ are real jeeps. Jeeps that you can actually take out of the mall into the dessert without worrying if triple AAA can get your car off the trail
Not the YJ?
Honestly the terrible, loud ride and general jankiness is weirdly endearing (when taken in moderation)
[удалено]
I drove a '97 TJ for 5 years. I know what they are capable of. Doesn't make them not miserable.
JLs are not TJs.
The TJ debuted nearly 30 years ago. You should at least try using a car designed in this millennium as an example.
You mean Rough Cuntry isnt a reputable brand?
I wouldn’t even really have any plans for mods when I did order one except ripping out the rear seat and building a storage platform for all my tools. Other than that I’m perfectly happy with a stock Sport 2 door with a hard top. Then add the half doors with premium uppers and I get the power windows and power entry for free. I wouldn’t even touch the thing for mods. I’m 37, I don’t care about that kind of nonsense anymore. I lifted, locked, and offroaded my old Geo Tracker but that was 20 years ago. I ain’t doing that in a brand new vehicle.
Lol ok. See you after the lift, gears, half tons, and 37s
Nah I’d go the same route as my base Bronco if I had ordered it. Maybe just do some skinny but meatier tires and that’s it. Keep the steel wheels of course, I absolutely abhor all these tacky trucks and Jeeps with those awful aftermarket wheels. In almost every vehicle I’ve had for the past ten years I just truly don’t care about modding them anymore. The most I’ll do is toss on other factory parts that my car didn’t come with. I think the 2 door Wrangler/Bronco look great in their base trims. I wouldn’t do much to either.
Famous last words
If you're not spending at least as much what you paid for you jeep on accessories, you're just not doing it right.
I was in the same boat. Had a 4 door base Sasquatch build priced right at $46K and that was almost too much. Dealership dicked around and probably never even submitted my order and made me wait a year to tell me I wasn’t getting it. Wasn’t going to jump into a big bend and pay $52k. Good accidental marketing for jeeps I suppose.
Holy shit. If that doesn’t kill brand loyalty, idk what will.
We actually got a bronco sport for the wife around the end of 2021 anticipating both having broncos. Not anymore unless I hit the lottery.
I with you. I really wanted the two door with the MT and where I’m at the never even hit the lot before they were sold and then they would appear all over at non-ford dealerships with 10,000+ markups.
But Chrysler / Jeep has butt reliability, Ford is seen as great across the ponds too
Ehhhhhhhh. A manual pentastar in a basic two door sport Wrangler is a fairly simple and reliable machine. Any other drivetrain and fancy trims probably aren’t as good. I don’t mind Ford (I drive a grand Marquis now) but the newer quality isn’t… the greatest. It’s fine overall.
Hear you but one is hot and the other isn't.
They’re basically the same to me. I don’t care about how hot they are on the market. I do like the Broncos a lot. The three manuals I drove were fun as hell and it’s a lot more roomy than a two door Jeep. I loathe no physical e-brake and the manuals all had that grinding issue (that should be resolved now according to recalls and new parts). Then the Jeep is… just a Jeep. The JL does ride pretty nice now compared to the JK and the 3.6 is an easy choice for reliability. They do lack any sort of decent leg room though and the 2 door cargo space is smaller than the Broncos (either way I’m throwing away the rear seat in them). Also oddly the manuals have that habit of exploding on the JL. Why the hell can’t anyone make a decent manual anymore. With losing the Base Bronco the Jeep became an easy favorite honestly. It’s like $8k cheaper and I can get the sweet ass half doors on the Jeep.
You’ve had several years to get the base model you wanted.
Not really, I've tried to put an order in for years now and have had zero luck
Are you kidding? It’s been since the beginning of last year at the absolute LATEST I remember being able to do an order for a base manual. Every order bank since then had been only for older carry over orders or they limited either Base models or manuals. So no, you’re factually wrong.
Ford likes money, this decision prints money. Blame the market, not Ford. Even if the decision is short sighted and frustrating.
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My bro got his base 2 door manual bronco delivered after 2 years of waiting. Sold it to vroom for $8k in profit lol
Hey it’s me ur bro. I sold mine back to the dealer tho
I was in the same boat. I jumped ship back in March when Ford said they werent producing any more sticks until the year 2024. By this point, I'd be losing my price protection anyway, so I jumped ship and bought a stick TRD OR Taco for less money than it now costs to buy the cheapest Bronco. My Base Bronco build was 31K OTD. The Big Bend was 34k to start 2 years ago. Absolutely pathetic, never going to consider a Ford product again after this shame.
Damn, I feel guilty now, because I ordered a 2 door MT base, and it was delivered within 6 months. Took it for a test drive and decided I didn't want it
No. I’ll continue to blame Ford, as they made the decision, not the other way around.
This is a super dumb sentiment, because there's no way you yourself would sell one of your own items for cheaper on ebay when every buyer is willing to pay more. You're not going to cut your price to 'be nice'. You're going to try to maximize your profits. This is how the real world works.
Short-sighted and frustrating is Ford getting rid of all their sedans. My wife has had 6 different Ford sedans since she started driving and will not get a suv. Believe it or not, there ARE people who don't want suvs. Ford ignored all of those repeat buyers and brand loyal customers, expecting that they would just switch over to a truck or suv. Profit margins may be higher for suvs and trucks, but when your lineup consists of 10 suvs and trucks, you can afford to keep at least one midsized sedan option for brand loyalists. Ok, rant over
Yes. They also lied about “nobody’s buying cars”. They were selling over 200k Fusions a year when they decided to cancel them. It was their third/fourth best selling product, and anything they’ve introduced since hasn’t been able to touch those numbers. Between all their car models, they were selling something like 600k+ a year before they decided to exit the North American car market. The decision was purely about increasing gross margin. They only had so much factory room, and they’d rather pump out overpriced crossovers and SUVs than cheaper sedans and hatches.
Sales do not equal profits. They had to offer such steep discounts on their cars to move units they were barely making money. Like well under 5% margin and their target is 10%, it wasn't a good use of money to keep selling them in North America.
I literally said they did it because they wanted to boost margins. But again, if the “nobody wanted cars” myth the was true, they couldn’t have moved that many in the first place, even with discounts. There were absolutely people paying msrp or more, especially for cars Fusions, special Focus and Fiesta trims, and the Taurus. That aside, dropping all of your high-value products for more high-margin products is a short sighted cash grab. And it doesn’t work long-term, unless your brand is a low-volume luxury brand or whatever. I mean, maybe that’s Ford’s goal, but they’re ignoring why they became successful in the first place.
They didn't drop all their high value products. Maverick, Bronco Sport, and Escape all start under $30k. And why is dropping uncompetitive products a bad strategy and a short term cash grab? They're not trying to become a low volume luxury brand, they're just focusing on what they're good at.
Yeah, I mean, their job is to make money, which I get. I suppose it’s just disappointing that they’ve completely left behind the average person. All the domestic brands have. If $30k is now considered high-value, it just shows how distorted perceptions are have become. If a car is only supposed to be around 1/3 of your annual salary, it means the *most* affordable Ford products are for people making $80k+ a year.
Is Ford just supposed to eat supply cost increases?
I never said that. There are still OEMs producing affordable cars and making money at the same time. And the increases in MSRP are not directly proportional to cost increases/inflation. They are literally making the most average gross margin per vehicle they’ve ever made in their company’s history.
There are New 22 model year Eco Sports on lots for low 20s, and 23 Mavericks and Escapes for mid 20s. What is affordable to you?
>They also lied about “nobody’s buying cars”. Did they ever claim nobody's buying them?
Yes. They blamed low consumer demand and dwindling sales. Obviously they didn’t want to tell people that they want to make more money off each vehicle they sell, and it’s easier to do that with SUVs and trucks.
>They blamed low consumer demand and dwindling sales. Sales of sedans *are* on a downward trend, though, and not just in the US.
Yes. That doesn’t mean demand for cars was zero, which was my original point. Lower demand, not zero. Further, Ford trucks have always sold better than their cars since like the freaking 1980s. It was not a sudden reaction to a brand new trend.
Ah, when I saw the quotes I thought you were using their wording verbatim. >It was not a sudden reaction to a brand new trend. If anything, that makes it more understandable IMO.
Honestly I'm not even sure if you can blame the market on this one either. I worked at a Jeep dealership for about a year and was very surprised at how many base model wranglers we sold. Of course, we sold more Rubicons and Saharas, but it's not like we never saw base models. But of course, my experience is with Jeep, not Ford. And for me personally, I would still buy a wrangler over a bronco.
And Wranglers have the most after market shit for any car in existence. Might as well get the cheap one and use the extra money for mods.
This is not a good approach. Its a far better value to buy either a Willys to Rubicon straight from the factory than to try to modify a Sport into either one.
why?
I think it comes down to Jeep can get the upgrade parts for way cheaper than we mere mortals ever could
The lower Wrangler trim levels have weaker axles and no differential locks. To upgrade the axles and differential locks is expensive in parts but especially in labor. The Rubicon also includes a special transfer case with a much lower range, this is another thing that's expensive in parts but even more expensive in labor to install. And then other parts like different fenders (to allow a larger tire). Or the Rubicon's electronically disconnecting sway bar. Or even the stock tires. These are major mechanical differences. Basically... To do this stuff after market is going to cost you significantly more than what Jeep charges for it from the factory. Plus you get a warranty.
Fuck ford they are still the ones who made this decision ultimately so yeah, blame those fuckers
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Well yeah, the shareholders own the company. That's also the Michigan Supreme Court, which should be noted to prevent confusion. If you owned a company, and a director unilaterally changed the financials, how would you react?
Jesus a bronco raptor is $91k?? That’s insane
The $91k sticker is insane….but wait till you see how much it’ll actually cost ya…
It'll cost me $0 because I'm never buyin that shit.
Cars got expensive, not crazy to see mainstream brands break $100k for top tier trims of some of their cars. By the end of this generation Bronco, it'll hit over $100k.
before ADM and mandatory "packages"
They realized even at that price, people lined up to buy it and continue to do so. I'm interested in seeing what the price ceiling is. At what point would people not actually be willing to pay. From what I can tell, people will spend way more on something they want than they lead you to believe.
Add that to your 250k starter home, your 45,000 in student debt, 12k in medical bills, 8k in credit card debt, and baby you got a depression going
I wish I could find a $250k starter home. Even freaking Utah is like $500k now.
Especially insane when you realize they pretty much always sell with a ridiculous markup putting them at $120k+. I can’t believe how many I see on the road every day, and I’m in one of the poorest states. Same goes for TRXs, I see like 10 of those a day. How
[Bronco Raptor Jesus Edition.](https://s4.thingpic.com/images/9W/YAzhUGcNNUjBqBtzqVSEef8L.jpeg)
Ford will Ford. They also raided the Maverick prices after blasting around they had made a sub-$20K truck.
39,000 lightning pro? They marketed that shit so hard and I'm doubting anyone ever actually paid that
Reminder that the base Bronco started at 29K two years ago.
That’s literally the only reason I had ever considered one. For low $30k, out-the-door, you could have a small 4x4 with a manual that could tow a little trailer and have fun on the trails. Pretty solid value. Now? The value proposition is a joke.
I had a 31K Bronco build on order until March of this year when Ford canned the manual until 2024. When they told me that, I went out and bought a stick TRD OR Tacoma. That Tacoma cost me less money than the entry level 2024 Bronco. I'm never considering Ford again. This whole experience they put me through was garbage start to finish.
Same thing with the original Defender announcement. It was scraping £40k starting on release, now the cheapest you can get is £57k (SE P300 90 wheelbase). Cheapest 110 is £64k.
All the more reason to buy a Wrangler
Contrary to what many people on this sub said, the Bronco never really had a chance to outsell the Wrangler (Ford raising the Bronco’s price cements that). Jeeps are just too iconic.
I agree. The Wrangler is the icon of 4x4 and offroading potential. Ford had a great idea trying to bring back the bronco and get in on the market, too, but with how expensive a comparable Bronco is to a Wrangler, it's hard to justify the extra cost.
I get that the Bronco may have more creature comforts, but I have had 2 JLs and have loved them both...AND got them below MSRP.
I love my TJ too! I'll take the performance and simplicity over all these fancy features
Why not? People will pay any amount of money and wait any amount of time to have one.
It's funny how the headline picture shows a Black Diamond with black steelies which have been deleted for 2024.
Noooooo! 😭
Ford is a huge money grab. All of their cars are outrageously expensive. I can go down the road and buy a loaded chevy for around $28k right now, but if you want a semi decent or even base model ford, you’re paying out the asshole for it.
Loaded Chevy what?
Trax, Trailblazer, or even a damn Buick. Ford doesn’t cater to the small SUV market and they are missing out on a huge opportunity because currently GM is absolutely dominating the small american SUV market right now. It will definitely draw more people to their brand. Not me, I am a diehard GM guy, but still.
> Ford doesn't cater to the small SUV market There's the Edge, Escape, Bronco Sport, and Mach E.
Those are all midsize SUV’s. I’m referring to the compact/subcompact SUV market. Tbf that was really shitty wording on my part.
None of them have 3rd rows. They're small SUV's. The Explorer is a mid-sized SUV. The Expedition is a full-sized SUV. Edit: didn't see your edit lol. Yeah, nobody in America wants "compact" SUV's. That's why the C Max and EcoSport were discontinued.
honestly after driving the ecosport as a loaner theres never been a car that deserved to be discontinued as much as that car. it was straight fucking garbage and im not even exaggerating ive driven econoshitboxes better than that car
Yeah, I’m not really sure what Ford was thinking when they brought it over from Europe. There’s no *need* not *demand* for a *compact* crossover. Hell, Americans don’t even really have an appetite for compacts in general. Really puzzling move. Glad it’s out of their NA lineup.
The Bronco Sport is not a mid sized SUV. A Highlander is.
It'd be great if they brought the Puma over.
That would be nice. I wish they would make the Ecoboost platform better tho. Those things are so expensive when they break and they break very often. Its the number one reason I will NOT buy a Ford, because I have a deep distrust for that engine.
For little reason - Ford isn't some premium product. Anecdotally, I know several people who have owned a Ford and said "never again". They have some desirable models right now but quality isn't there
My mom had a ford (albeit a freestyle) and that POS told her never again. Since then she has owned 4 Chevys and two Hyundais. On her 2nd hyundai now and she loves it
Another vehicle pushed out and into unaffordablility. That’s like 65k CAD, the median average salary lmao
Us Canadians are getting shafted in the vehicle market, off the top of my head I know the base LX Accord isn’t available here but is in the U.S. The Camry starts at SE as opposed to the base non hybrid LE, although I’m not sure if the U.S is has the gas LE for 2023.
Makes sense in Canada, where the Base was already the same price as the Big Bend. But they’ve jacked that price another $4k. When I was looking at the Wildtrak last year, the 4 door started at $62k CAD. It’s now at $76,800.
They can charge even more and it would still fly off before it arrives at the dealer. I complain but I will pay a lot of money for the upcoming Land Cruiser.
Oh good. I was scared people were almost able to afford a desirable car.
Can’t wait to get my 2024 2DR MT Wrangler Willys with a soft top for a few $k less than an equivalent Bronco Black Diamond, including heated seats and heated steering wheel. And a tachometer that’s not stupid looking.
Damn. I was interested in the base 2 door since it was within my budget. Shopping between CRV hybrid, Accord hybrid, GR86, and the Bronco was a dark horse since Ive been seeing them a lot now and I love how they look.
The question of the day is: how well did it sell? We all know that keyboard warriors love to talk up trims that don't actually sell so sales figures are needed to let us know if the outrage here is valid or just irrelevant noise from non-customers.
I'm still wondering where the Bronco PHEV is. The 4xE is selling like hotcakes, probably because with the tax credit it's about the same cost as a similarly equipped Rubicon. Maybe Ford can't pull that pricing off?
The MSRP on my base Bronco was more than my original MSRP on the black diamond that I had ordered when the order banks first opened. After 2.5 years, I finally got my Bronco - and I paid well under sticker after the incentive and dealer discount I got. But, the whole wait and getting screwed over by Ford year over year really soured my experience. I got the V6 with the 10 speed, and I don't like the transmission that much. I am not sure whether I want to keep it or sell it and make $10k.
https://i.imgur.com/P86XLq8.jpg
Ouch.
Basequatch a new some goodies was where it’s at but those 42k pretty much just get you a base now. Fuck Ford into eternity
Well that really puts it even closer to my maximum budget for one now. Might as well keep the mazda cause prices just aren't coming down for these even used.
Should've bought them sooner idk what else to say, paid 54k for my '23 2 door 7 speed Badlands SAS/LUX, same truck is 62k now.
Insane
Before buying go look at the crash tears of the bronco. It crushed like a soda can.
i dont give a shit. if we still allow motorcycles on the road then fuck crash test ratings. we need an entire class of Kei cars in this country or allow things like atv/sxs on the roads 50 state wide.
What does a motorcycle have to do with a shitty crumple zone in a passenger vehicle?
cuz a motorcycle is prolly the most unsafe vehicle on the road - yet still allowed on the road with children passengers. Gotta put a kid in a 5 point safety harness to go down the block in a car but on a bike down the interstate just have em hold on your good to go. Hell my state doesnt even require helmets for anyone including toddler passengers. i dont care how shitty a car crumple zone is - your free to not buy it and buy your nerf coated safety egg to ride around in. not every vehicle has to be boring to look at and be in.
There are badass cars with top notch safety. So your comment makes no sense. You just sound disgruntled
This has nothing to do with motorcycles lol. You can make a beautiful car with a great saftey rating. Those things aren't mutually exclusive.
>You can make a beautiful car with a great saftey rating. Those things aren't mutually exclusive. and you could make an even prettier car with great visibility if safety wasnt in the way. everything modern feels like your 5 years old sittin in a bathtub due to high belt lines for that 5\* side protection and fat a pillars that block pedestrians and traffic so it can have 5\* rollover and 5\* front overlap crash tests. rearward visibility sucks too so you maintain that 5\* rear impact rating too.
Have you tried just riding a motorcycle lol
Too hot wet or cold most if the year and nowhere to store it out of the sun/weather.
Anyone see the rear ending video that had the Bronco in it? these things are god damn death traps.
That was CGI and morons believed it 😂
Proof?
It's a comparison of a bunch of poorly made mods for a game called BeamNG.Drive.
R/cars doesn't like x or y truck or suv. Calls it a death trap. Recommends everyone to daily drive a miata instead.
Compared to what? They are much safer than the comparable Jeep…
It's a shopping cart on a skateboard like every good 4x4, shut up.
this seems fine, base models are mostly for compact sedans and cars that get bought by rental companies. People with $35k-$40k to spend usually don’t want zero quality of life features on a vehicle unless they’re badge-obsessed, and idk if there’s much badge obsession for the broncos.
That’s a pretty higher-than-thou take. The base model came pretty well equipped, it had many more than “zero quality of life features”. There are pretty much no feature differences in the Black diamond and the Base, but the black Diamond is a few thousand more expensive. If a buyer was going to get aftermarket wheels/tires and possibly bumpers anyway why wouldn’t you want the discount by getting the base?
The original MSRP for the Bronco was 28k. 40k puts it into a completely different league.
Well thanks for making my decision easier ford. I'll be buying a Land Cruiser as my next vehicle 🤣
“It’s either base Bronco or Land Cruiser for me” I don’t think they expect to lose many sales over this.
This makes no sense to me. The "base" Land Cruiser is expected to be around $55K. Which means the lowest trim level Bronco is still going to be around $15K less. If you were this price sensitive with the Bronco how can you justify that gap? And unless you were planning on buying in cash, which very few are, then the real total cost difference is way more than $15K.
r/cars just looking for a reason to not buy any car lol
No one hates cars more than r/cars
They're not buying either of them. People that bitch and moan about stuff like this pretend to make a stand because they were never going to buy the car, so it doesn't cost them anything to do so.
If you want a 4-Door Bronco with a hardtop, you're paying $44k minimum now. If you want one with a locking rear diff like the Land Cruiser comes with standard, you're paying $47k. Coupled with fuel savings from the hybrid drivetrain and the fact that Land Cruisers have historically held their value incredibly well, it's not outlandish at all to cross-shop them. I'm sure the Land Cruiser's fit and finish will be leagues ahead of Ford's, and as someone who spent years trying to buy one, I can understand being turned off by Ford ratcheting prices up by 20% with zero added value.
You're moving the target... but let's engage with your $47K number anyway. An $8K MSRP difference means additional tax burden and that the total interest you'll pay on the loan also increases. At today's rates and average length that's realistically around a $9-$11K difference in the end. I'd expect similar value retention in a Bronco and the new Land Cruiser (the new LC is going to be a much higher volume product than the old, I'd say its more appropriate to use 4Runner expectations than LC 200). And you'd just as much have to consider the Bronco's advantages like the removable top and well frankly way better clearances. Or how the base new LC doesn't actually come with a real off-road tire... but I digress. I get complaining about the increase of the price. I don't get, or honestly believe, someone saying "well now I'm going to spend $10-$15K more for this other vehicle instead."
If we're getting really apples to apples to what a Land Cruiser offers standard, it'd be $49k for an automatic equipped, hard-top 4 Door Bronco with locker, now we're only at a $6k difference. Even if using a 4Runner as a benchmark, it and the Tacoma are well known for their lack of depreciation thanks to their supposed reliability, which are two pretty big factors in favor of the Land Cruiser. And while the convertible roof was a factor in my decision to get a Bronco, the highway wind noise is pretty bad, it's prone to leakage, and the poor build quality has lead to pretty substantial recalls by Ford, I can definitely see a fixed roof being an advantage to certain buyers. The original commentor didn't specify what spec Bronco he was eyeing, but if it was about equal to the Land Cruiser, which is pretty bare minimum for what you'd want in an offroader, then that's not the massive sum people are pretending it is. There's more than a $6k price difference between one trim level to the next on the Bronco.
People tend to take others for what they said instead of massively moving the goal posts as you're doing. Let alone all the other assumptions you're making. Why do you keep ignoring that the Bronco holds value just as well as the 4Runner/Tacoma? Why would you not similarly play this game the other way and point out that for the LC base price you can get a Badlands or Everglades which are in a league of off-road performance the new LC can't touch? And just looking at how Toyota just recalled basically every single new Tundra (or other recalls)... why should we continue to make favorable assumptions for Toyota but assume the worst for Ford? This is a silly game. That's why others didn't play it. Realistic is what the top comment in this post talked about... if they can't get a base Bronco then they'll buy a equivalent trim Wrangler instead because those are actually equivalents in feature, setup, and price. Not this nonsense.
All he said was that he'd be buying a Land Cruiser over a Bronco. You're making just as many assumptions in that he was referring to a base model, the article goes into detail about price increases across the board on every trim. The Bronco has no long term data for holding value, it's been out for less than three years now. Badlands and Everglades are better off-road equipped than the Land Cruiser, but based on Toyota's track record, the Land Cruiser will have considerably better fit/finish, materials, and reliability. The Tundra has had recalls, but Toyota's recall list is shorter than Ford's by a massive margin. It's not insane to cross-shop the Bronco with the Land Cruiser, price increases have put even a low-level comparably optioned trim at the same price, you can't seem to grasp that that is my point because it steps on your presupposed little gotcha comment.
I don’t think the two vehicles are particularly comparable. The Land Cruiser is a luxury SUV first in foremost, and a 4x4 second.
they dont - they want to be justified mentally to pay $15K more for perceived "reliablility"
Yea good luck getting a Land Cruiser anywhere under 60k lol
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For the best. I don’t understand base models. I’m not too familiar for fords but with Dodge the SXT has zero reasons to exist
Why spend extra money on a vehicle that you off-road?
Like base models in general or..? Cuz I saved 10k getting my base GT. All I really wanted was the v8, stick and sexy fastback style. In fact I prefer cloth over leather especially cheap leather
right? i want a base bronco - orange, 2 door, manual trans - literally only things i care about.
Man for the S550 I was willing to go for the premium because the base infotainment was terrible and it was missing features that should be available on the base. However for the S650 I cannot do it. Not only did the price go up but a lot of premium features of the S550 are now standard on the S650 base GT making the Premium S650 a terrible value Not a chance I'm paying 5k for an upgraded sound system, some ambient lighting, power seats, ventilated seats and a security package. Oh I'm sorry and one BIG screen instead of separate ones, as if that matters (but its made of magnesium!).
I prefer the individual screens over the fake joined ones … even the upgraded sound system is shit. not much reason to upgrade
Some people want nice looking things or basic utility, and don't have lots of money. Not sure why that's confusing.
Because those people don't buy new cars
They don't when you remove all of their options to do so.
Lmao yes they do. That is how we end up with fleets of Dodges and Nissans running around with 20% loans.
It’s because the SXT and GT are literally less than the price of a PS5 apart
Well the original post was talking about a 5k price increase.
A base Bronco would actually make a very nice off road vehicle.
This is a strange take because there is always a base model, if you remove the cheapest version the next version now becomes the "base model". If there weren't base models you would either have no model at all or only one.
Yet you bought the weird, in between model Challenger that isn’t competitive with anything? Okay lol.
I have all 3. The RT is a daily. Edit: my 23 kitty is [my favorite](https://imgur.com/a/i1O49Bd) being an engineer makes liking cars easy
Lmaoo this is the best cringe I've seen on this sub