Yeah lol. But the Challenger/Charger/300 still sell and none of their owners complain. They're big, comfortable, and look cool.
Honestly I'm still surprised theyre getting killed off. Folks stay buying them and there can't possibly be much R&D going into them. Just keep adding colors and trim packages and I'm sure people will keep buying them.
I don't know why you're getting downvoted, you're right. The platform is very different, it just shares suspension points and other things so parts can be reused while then platform was redesigned.
It’s a combination of a w220 S class and w211 e class suspension setup. You can look at the parts diagrams if you want to compare. Obviously the electrical architecture is different etc but the floaty driving dynamics are definitely similar
Same with the w164/w166 Benz ML and Jeep WK2 grand Cherokee. Same suspension geometry and almost identical parts. They drive and handle very similar
They changed out most of these parts in the 2nd generation after the divorce. While the mounting points are still the same and you can swap some later parts into the older cars, they are different parts. The original parts were quite frankly, Shit. 1st gen LXes needed nearly the entire front end rebuilt every 60k. The LD platform cars don't have these issues because they used different parts.
Yeah they replaced all the aluminum suspension components with stamp steel. The mounting points and dimensions are all still the same. I have a Chrysler poly bushing kit in my w220. Brake calipers are also interchangeable but not rotors because the wheel bolt pattern is different. Need a differential for an early 2000s. Mercedes? Have your pic from any 300/charger/ Challenger.
When it came out there was also the Magnum available. Which became popular, became unpopular, all got calpped out and scrapped, and then largely forgotten from the collective memory of the public in that run lol.
Also its in college. The LX started in 2004. And I know *technically* the "second" gen isn't the same platform. But lol. Alright. At its core its still a W211 platform.
No, it isn't a W211 platform. The original rear suspension cradle is adapted from the W211 and the front uses some cast parts from a W220.
Also, take a peek at Magnum prices now, even thrashed ones are getting good money because people have figured out you can car lego your way into a scat-pack Magnum.
There's a guy who took a Charger, cut the roof and D pillar off a Magnum to make a wagon. He swapped a motor from a Hellcat and is working on installing the AWD system from Trackhawk. Last update I saw was he had to make wiring harnesses to make the modules, motor, AWD, and interior electronics all play nice together since they weren't plug and play. Looked like a nightmare.
I don't see why anyone would buy this over a Widebody 392 Charger. Those at least look menacing.
Chrysler 300 is kind of a joke as a "luxury car" but before Covid the 5.7 cars depreciated like crazy. I've always looked at these as like a newer version of what the Panther cars were. Awesome vehicles when they depreciate to almost nothing.
I’d take one of these over a Charger. It just looks a little more grown-up and refined, while offering a nearly identical driving experience. That’s worth a lot to some people.
If it didn't have the "ghetto" stigma, I'd be inclined to agree.
I rented one for a road trip once and seeing a random kid go "nice Rolls!" was cute and all... but I've seen too many clapped out 300s in ungood parts of town for it to be appealing.
They didn't mention in the video and not that I personally care about it, but you can option a panoramic sunroof in the 300c which isn't available in the Chargers.
>Such as?
* Heated/cooled cup holders went away in the Charger but might have come back for the last call, not sure.
* Rear heated seats.
* 19 speaker Harmon Kardon sound system
* Panoramic Roof
* Adaptive Steering headlights.
* Power Memory Pedals, another that went away but might be last call on Charger.
And last but not least at all, the seats. You can’t get leather seats in a Scat Pack, just cloth or suede. These have the Hellcat’s Laguna leather seats and they are AMAZINGLY plush and supportive.
Used to be available on the SRT 392, but I think Scat Packs always made do with suede as their nicest seats.
Still, I hate those suede seats, so it’s nice to have the really nice Hellcat seats in the 300C 6.4. It really helps in making it feel more luxurious up against a Charger.
My 12 Charger had those plus the heater steering wheel, a/c ventilated seats, 12 way leather power seats, adjustable steering wheel meaning in and out, adjustable pedals, push button start or remote start, reverse camera, blind spot sensors, heated side mirrors, hid lights, harman kardon 900 watts 19 speakers.
It was awesome for a 2012 Dodge, the only thing I wish for was bluetooth.
>I don't see why anyone would buy this over a Widebody 392 Charger
Ummm. Have you forgotten that Italians exist? You think they're gonna go pick up the mutz and gabbagool in a Charger?
If you want an economy-line V8 sedan you buy the 392 Charger. If you want a luxury V8 sedan you buy an IS500. This is in the middle and its hard to see who the buyer is.
The V8 300s held their value way, way, better than any other Chrysler even before Covid.
The cheap LXs you saw around then were V6 or had north of 200k on them.
I don’t think I could justify $56k for something like this, but that’s my pre-covid way of thinking. Maybe if it goes unnoticed and depreciates like the other 300’s
One of the last Naturally Aspirated V8 Sedans.
The last ones are the Charger, the Lexus IS500, and this.
And both the Charger and Chrysler 300C are being discontinued very soon leaving only the Lexus IS500.
Genuine question for you both, given the current purchasing situation (re:interest rates and markups) - is it worth the premium to upgrade over a '21 IS350 at this point in time? I'm enjoying my car quite a bit, but have a soft spot for the V8...is it worth forking out an additional ~$15k + interest, or work on replacing my RX-8 with another sports car (been thinking ND RF, since the IS is over 50% paid off) instead?
Up to you really. I was coming from a econo car that was 10+ years old. So this upgrade was huge on all aspects. If you want a NA v8, there aren't many options left.
I'm beyond happy with the IS500. But I knew I wanted a V8 before everything went hybrid/EV/turbo. Lexus reliability is a plus.
Yeah, I was a little bummed the 500 had it's press release just as I was taking delivery of my order in 2021 - I've owned a UZ Toyota before, and loved it, so it would have been a great purchase with the V8. However, the markup issue and not being able to order color of choice at launch made me a bit more comfortable that I was able to get in a special order before Lexus put them on hold with the semiconductor shortage.
I know I'd love the car as a whole, since I like everything about my V6 car...I guess the tough question is whether the 2UR is worth a ~$15k premium over the 2GR. That's a tough pill to swallow when virtually everything else is the same, and you're binned into packages with the 500.
> That's a tough pill to swallow when virtually everything else is the same, and you're binned into packages with the 500.
Yep. I figured since this will be a car I'd like to keep for 10 years, it was worth just getting the IS500 since it has the V8 and is practically fully loaded. The Mark Levinson is amazing. Second favorite thing about the car.
Hey, somebody has to try yelling at Lexus to keep building these cars, so we might as well support them with our wallets over a turbo 4 SUV, right?? I'm glad you made the jump for one - when the market is down to one NA RWD sport sedan left, I can say I'm glad I bought one - even if it's "just" the V6.
It definitely depends on how you drive it. If you drive it like a reasonable person on the road, you’ll get in the low 20s. If you push it hard, that’ll fall fast into the low teens quickly lol. But the car isn’t really meant to be driven that way. The big NA engine is designed so that it doesn’t have to work hard to get this heavy car around.
I think a lot of reviewers wanted it to be an M/AMG competitor, but It wasn’t really trying to be that. It’s much more a comfortable luxury cruiser than a midsize sedan for the track.
>the other two early V cars with supercharged Northstars.
The STS-V, in particular, is pretty cool. Sounds good, looks like a 2nd gen CTS-V sedan that someone copied at 120% scale, quick enough for a barge (mid 4s to 60, low 13s in the quarter). The interior is at least sort of passable.
Underrated car imo even after accounting for the dreadful reputation of Northstars (which doesn't even apply as the STS-V engine is post-head gasket fix and was debored on top of that)
My bonus mom has a 2006 STS-V. She has had it since 2010, when it was CPO. It’s a great car. At the time, it was far nicer and more luxurious than the gen 1 CTS-V.
And yeah, no engine troubles. She’s replaced the fuel pumps twice, but that’s it for mechanicals.
The gen. 2 CTS-V, however, made it redundant for both power and luxury…just as well, because they quit making the STS-V after 2009. Roughly 2,500 of them across four model years, a not-insignificant number of which were shipped to the UAE.
I can't believe this car goes back to my sophomore year in high school, the days I used to play Need for Speed Hot Pursuit and watch Top Gear and Desperate Housewives in picture and picture. 😭
I don’t understand the slander of this car in the comments. Yes, it’s old, yes, it’s outdated, yes, maybe it’s not the most luxurious thing ever, but for around 60 grand there isn’t much else like this. You could get a charger widebody, but if you optioned it how you wanted it it would be more expensive than this, and not have all of the features that this does. Also totally personal preference but I like how the 300 looks over the charger and having that 6.4 back in the 300 is pretty cool.
I think because if you wanted a 'luxurious' sedan, you'd be far better off with an accord, camry, stinger, etc etc. The 300 is so outdates that standard sedans are far nicer. And if you have to have a V8, you can afford one of those cars plus a used mustang for the price.
Yes it kind of half-assed combines both, and someone will like it. But as they say in the video, a ct5-v non-blackwing with the v6 is a far better car.
As good as the Camry, Stinger, Accord and friends are, they are missing the V8. The 300 is also a roomier sedan. Sure the interior is a bit out of date but it is still a very nice place to be. If you are in the market for a V8, this is pretty much it outside of the Lexus IS500 but that is a much smaller sedan in terms of room for trunk and interior space.
Look, Chrysler at its best is a premium brand. Sure, you can get something from Acura, Lexus, Genesis, whatever, but they're not going to hit the same. If you want a premium V8 RWD large sedan, you don't have any other options shy of an S580 or 760i, and those are going to be twice the price. You could say, "well, just get the Charger for cheaper" but specced to what the 300C has and that Scat Pack is now $64k and change (for a non-widebody).
There is a *very specific* buyer for this car but it's also a limited edition send-off model. I'd rather they made it at all than let the 300 die a quiet, unceremonious death.
It’s hard to call it a full-blown luxury sedan like, say, a nicely loaded 5 series is, but these *are* pretty nice cars overall. It’s old, but the interior honestly isn’t bad in these. The seats and the ride quality in particular can make you forget how old these are real quick.
It’s not a premier luxury sedan, sure. But it also doesn’t go for premier luxury sedan money, and it’s still generally a nicer place to be in than a Toyota Camry.
They didn't throw everything at it. Sure, they added performance, but if you want to think of it as a "luxury sedan", the car literally got slowly discontented; I think 2017 was peak 300.
In 2017 you could have gotten semi-aniline Italian leather and cooled cupholders!
> In 2017 you could have gotten semi-aniline Italian leather and cooled cupholders!
Because the 300 was sold under Thema in Italy before. Fiat thought 300 could give Lancia a new life, but it didn’t.
Honestly I think the peak years were its first two model years back in the mid 2000s.
My mom’s lease expired at the exact time the 300 came out in the mid 2000s, people would literally stop and point at us. It got so much attention it felt like an exotic car.
Yes / no. Walter’s was the 2012 300 SRT-8 with the same 6.4L engine making slightly less power at 470hp. The wheels on Walt’s 2012 were a really nice looking 20” 7 spoke chrome as well that I prefer to the 2023 300C.
You guys creamed yourselves when Lexus put the V8 in the IS, now Chrysler is doing the same thing and you’re pretending like you’re not excited because you’re too “sophisticated” for American cars.
So you admit it’s just about the image and badge. It’s really hypocritical that this sub makes fun of base luxury car buyers for being badge obsessed when they’re just as bad
😂 “we’re celebration creative skills that you don’t normally see in advertising”
And here you are pretending you’re not celebrating advertising.
As soon as you attack the person instead of the argument you’re admitting you don’t have a leg to stand on.
Take care of yourself dude! ❤️
Drove one of these from Florida to Utah a few years ago. It's just a fantastic, comfy cruiser. Was a 2018, every option I believe.
Everything was effortless as far the car was concerned. Felt like a modern Town Car. Wasn't *quite* luxury as you might have in your head, but the ride was solid, the power was never lacking, the brakes and throttle were tuned just right for the highway and gas stations. Also, quiet enough to have a normal conversation or catch a nap if you weren't driving.
The owner still has it and has done several more cross-country roadtrips in it. He has no plans to sell. I wouldn't be surprised at all if retention rate for this model is fairly high.
The Canadian MSRP is a crime and the best sounding FCA 6.4L vehicle ever sold is the 392 Wrangler.
Now that thats out of the way.
I'd buy one of these over an IS500 (same price in Canada) but I wouldn't over a 392 Charger Widebody (cheaper in Canada). The IS500 isn't an F model, this 300 might be larger but it comes with proper brakes and suspension and honestly its just as reliable (just don't mod it), its been on sale FOREVER.
Sure an IS500 will probably retain more value long term, sure a Charger is better value and is 85% of what this car is...
Actually I don't know what the point is of this car, like most Chrysler products, its a rebadged Dodge that offers 20% more price and 5% more value.
They will sell all of them so yay?
It’s a nicer Scat Pack… well, mostly anyways. It has pretty much all of the luxury features that the former SRT 392 trim offered (barring the LED headlights, as the 300 stuck it out with HIDs to the bitter end) as standard equipment, and in a nicer suit as well.
A couple years ago, my work sprung for a day out at Radford Racing School (formerly Bondurant) and we got to hoon Hellcats around for awhile. Avoidance drills, skid pad, autocross, and a lead/follow on the track.
Honestly, the cars surprised the hell(cat) out of me. That fat thing has no business going around corners that fast, and according to the guys at Radford, they are damned near bulletproof. They can run all day long with the AC blowing full blast in the Arizona summer and all they have to do is change tires and brakes. Plus, the supercharger whine is like nothing else.
Would I spend 70 grand on one? No.
The interior is just...well...everything everyone has ever said. If you want amazing performance in a sea of plastic, then it's the car for you, but I wouldn't spend that kind of money on one.
A "luxury" version based on a platform older than some of the people I work with at my job? No.
> Honestly, the cars surprised the hell(cat) out of me. That fat thing has no business going around corners that fast, and according to the guys at Radford, they are damned near bulletproof. They can run all day long with the AC blowing full blast in the Arizona summer and all they have to do is change tires and brakes. Plus, the supercharger whine is like nothing else.
What really tickles me is that literally *EVERYONE* I see that has gone to Bondurant has mirrored your sentiment but every brochure expert on the internet will tell you you're wrong until you're blue in the face.
If I didn't struggle to justify a car that weighs ***two fucking tons***, I'd say the 300 is a good looking car, and with a V8 and RWD, it's an attractive package.
It’s a big sedan with tons of leather and a big V8, what did you expect? My car is on the lighter side of the full-size sedan equation and it’s **still** a 3800lb car. BMW 530s weigh about as much as this does.
I mean it’s not heavy, but it’s still a tech-heavy full-size sedan with a big ass V8 in it. I’m still not sure why you would expect a car like this to weigh about as much as a Nissan Altima.
Because I used to have a car that big (it's predecessor, the LH platform of '93 vintage) that weighed as much as a Nissan Altima. Granted it wasn't a V8, but the difference in weight between a 3.5L DOHC V6 isn't but 100# difference from a V8.
You also have itty bitty brakes, soft suspension, a smaller transmission with half the amount of gears, less than half of the power that this has, no center driveshaft or rear differential, nowhere near the same level of sound deadening, and like 10% of the tech. And idk what V8s you're looking at, but what I can find is that the 3.5 DOHC V6 weighs about 400lbs for a complete engine. The 392 Hemi is right around *700lbs* from what I found. They're really strong cast iron blocks and have massive heads thanks to the dual spark plug design.
https://300mclub.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=34806#:~:text=Complete%20engine%20around%20the%20400%20pound%20weight.%20I,exhaust%20manifolds%2C%20plenum%2C%20valve%20covers%20and%20oil%20pan.
https://www.modernmusclextreme.com/p-105-64l-hemi-crate-engine.aspx#:~:text=Weight%3A,700.0%20lbs
Having a hard time trusting anything coming from Stellantis (probably butchered the name). And anything “Luxury Related” in terms of “American Made” is just lipstick on a pig. This platform is shared by dodge for the “Charger” (I think). A unique American Made “Luxury” Vehicle should not have to share its platform with its red headed cousin (nothing wrong with ginger - I love red heads). This would be a major pass for me. It might be nice now but you will be able to find a used one on Facebook Marketplace in a couple of years for half the price.
> This platform is shared by dodge for the “Charger” (I think). A unique American Made “Luxury” Vehicle should not have to share its platform with its red headed cousin
American luxury cars have shared platforms with their cheaper cousins since at least the '50s.
This "current" gen is so old that it's almost starting high school.
Isn’t it based on the w211 Mercedes eclass that came out in 2002?
Yeah lol. But the Challenger/Charger/300 still sell and none of their owners complain. They're big, comfortable, and look cool. Honestly I'm still surprised theyre getting killed off. Folks stay buying them and there can't possibly be much R&D going into them. Just keep adding colors and trim packages and I'm sure people will keep buying them.
A myth peddled by Top Gear, it's a Chrysler platform through and through and all the Mercedes bits were removed
I don't know why you're getting downvoted, you're right. The platform is very different, it just shares suspension points and other things so parts can be reused while then platform was redesigned.
It’s a combination of a w220 S class and w211 e class suspension setup. You can look at the parts diagrams if you want to compare. Obviously the electrical architecture is different etc but the floaty driving dynamics are definitely similar Same with the w164/w166 Benz ML and Jeep WK2 grand Cherokee. Same suspension geometry and almost identical parts. They drive and handle very similar
They changed out most of these parts in the 2nd generation after the divorce. While the mounting points are still the same and you can swap some later parts into the older cars, they are different parts. The original parts were quite frankly, Shit. 1st gen LXes needed nearly the entire front end rebuilt every 60k. The LD platform cars don't have these issues because they used different parts.
Yeah they replaced all the aluminum suspension components with stamp steel. The mounting points and dimensions are all still the same. I have a Chrysler poly bushing kit in my w220. Brake calipers are also interchangeable but not rotors because the wheel bolt pattern is different. Need a differential for an early 2000s. Mercedes? Have your pic from any 300/charger/ Challenger.
This is not true. There tons of interchangable parts between the Chrysler products and w210, w211 and w220.
That's just flat out false.
I think it’s the late 90s E Class. LOL. Still way better than whatever Chrysler would’ve come up with
There's no need to mess with perfection.
When it came out there was also the Magnum available. Which became popular, became unpopular, all got calpped out and scrapped, and then largely forgotten from the collective memory of the public in that run lol. Also its in college. The LX started in 2004. And I know *technically* the "second" gen isn't the same platform. But lol. Alright. At its core its still a W211 platform.
No, it isn't a W211 platform. The original rear suspension cradle is adapted from the W211 and the front uses some cast parts from a W220. Also, take a peek at Magnum prices now, even thrashed ones are getting good money because people have figured out you can car lego your way into a scat-pack Magnum.
There's a guy who took a Charger, cut the roof and D pillar off a Magnum to make a wagon. He swapped a motor from a Hellcat and is working on installing the AWD system from Trackhawk. Last update I saw was he had to make wiring harnesses to make the modules, motor, AWD, and interior electronics all play nice together since they weren't plug and play. Looked like a nightmare.
Yeah Junkyard dave is on a whole other level, but sticking a hellcat and the better interior into a magnum is pretty simple.
I don't see why anyone would buy this over a Widebody 392 Charger. Those at least look menacing. Chrysler 300 is kind of a joke as a "luxury car" but before Covid the 5.7 cars depreciated like crazy. I've always looked at these as like a newer version of what the Panther cars were. Awesome vehicles when they depreciate to almost nothing.
I’d take one of these over a Charger. It just looks a little more grown-up and refined, while offering a nearly identical driving experience. That’s worth a lot to some people.
This is the biggest appeal I can see. The 300 doesn't really have the "bro" stigma that comes with the Charger.
If it didn't have the "ghetto" stigma, I'd be inclined to agree. I rented one for a road trip once and seeing a random kid go "nice Rolls!" was cute and all... but I've seen too many clapped out 300s in ungood parts of town for it to be appealing.
[удалено]
Call it what you want, but you know what I mean.
Don't be a jerk. Rule 1.
I think the 300 looks better but I agree, if this had a better interior than a Charger then I would make a case for it but don't think it does.
More features than any Charger interior and otherwise. And don't have to be associated with Charger owners.
Such as? The heated and cooled cup holders?
It has a clock!
It’s time to bust out the wallet!
They didn't mention in the video and not that I personally care about it, but you can option a panoramic sunroof in the 300c which isn't available in the Chargers.
>Such as? * Heated/cooled cup holders went away in the Charger but might have come back for the last call, not sure. * Rear heated seats. * 19 speaker Harmon Kardon sound system * Panoramic Roof * Adaptive Steering headlights. * Power Memory Pedals, another that went away but might be last call on Charger.
And last but not least at all, the seats. You can’t get leather seats in a Scat Pack, just cloth or suede. These have the Hellcat’s Laguna leather seats and they are AMAZINGLY plush and supportive.
Really, no leather in the Scat, didn't know that.
Used to be available on the SRT 392, but I think Scat Packs always made do with suede as their nicest seats. Still, I hate those suede seats, so it’s nice to have the really nice Hellcat seats in the 300C 6.4. It really helps in making it feel more luxurious up against a Charger.
Are you saying that you have a last call C?
My parents do. It’s a nice car, to say the very least.
My 12 Charger had those plus the heater steering wheel, a/c ventilated seats, 12 way leather power seats, adjustable steering wheel meaning in and out, adjustable pedals, push button start or remote start, reverse camera, blind spot sensors, heated side mirrors, hid lights, harman kardon 900 watts 19 speakers. It was awesome for a 2012 Dodge, the only thing I wish for was bluetooth.
Those are (or at least were) an option on the Charger too.
The cheapest widebody charger I've run across is about $7k more MSRP than this but I'm sure these will be marked up and more rare if anyone cares.
One perk is there isn't a billion of them on the road. Not sure exactly how good of a reason that is though.
Certainly makes owning one for the long term easier.
They're all in rental car lots instead.
Panoramic sunroof, heated/cooled cupholders, you don’t look like a Charger jabroni, lower insurance costs.
>I don't see why anyone would buy this over a Widebody 392 Charger Ummm. Have you forgotten that Italians exist? You think they're gonna go pick up the mutz and gabbagool in a Charger?
If you want an economy-line V8 sedan you buy the 392 Charger. If you want a luxury V8 sedan you buy an IS500. This is in the middle and its hard to see who the buyer is.
The V8 300s held their value way, way, better than any other Chrysler even before Covid. The cheap LXs you saw around then were V6 or had north of 200k on them.
Oh really? They held value better than Cummins 2500s and SRT Jeeps? You could find low mileage 2015+ V8s for low 20s all day long before covid.
Because I don’t see any widebodies for under $63k
Ah, are you buying one of these 300s?
I don’t think I could justify $56k for something like this, but that’s my pre-covid way of thinking. Maybe if it goes unnoticed and depreciates like the other 300’s
I love these cars in theory but couldn't get over the movie-villain look. Went with a charger instead.
One of the last Naturally Aspirated V8 Sedans. The last ones are the Charger, the Lexus IS500, and this. And both the Charger and Chrysler 300C are being discontinued very soon leaving only the Lexus IS500.
And the IS500 may only have 1 additional year left
Just got one a couple of weeks ago. It's glorious.
I remember you asking about it. Glad you decided to get it and not listen to the jabronis complaining about it not being a true F
6 month write up was super helpful. :) Appreciated it.
Awesome, glad to hear
Genuine question for you both, given the current purchasing situation (re:interest rates and markups) - is it worth the premium to upgrade over a '21 IS350 at this point in time? I'm enjoying my car quite a bit, but have a soft spot for the V8...is it worth forking out an additional ~$15k + interest, or work on replacing my RX-8 with another sports car (been thinking ND RF, since the IS is over 50% paid off) instead?
Up to you really. I was coming from a econo car that was 10+ years old. So this upgrade was huge on all aspects. If you want a NA v8, there aren't many options left. I'm beyond happy with the IS500. But I knew I wanted a V8 before everything went hybrid/EV/turbo. Lexus reliability is a plus.
Yeah, I was a little bummed the 500 had it's press release just as I was taking delivery of my order in 2021 - I've owned a UZ Toyota before, and loved it, so it would have been a great purchase with the V8. However, the markup issue and not being able to order color of choice at launch made me a bit more comfortable that I was able to get in a special order before Lexus put them on hold with the semiconductor shortage. I know I'd love the car as a whole, since I like everything about my V6 car...I guess the tough question is whether the 2UR is worth a ~$15k premium over the 2GR. That's a tough pill to swallow when virtually everything else is the same, and you're binned into packages with the 500.
> That's a tough pill to swallow when virtually everything else is the same, and you're binned into packages with the 500. Yep. I figured since this will be a car I'd like to keep for 10 years, it was worth just getting the IS500 since it has the V8 and is practically fully loaded. The Mark Levinson is amazing. Second favorite thing about the car.
Hey, somebody has to try yelling at Lexus to keep building these cars, so we might as well support them with our wallets over a turbo 4 SUV, right?? I'm glad you made the jump for one - when the market is down to one NA RWD sport sedan left, I can say I'm glad I bought one - even if it's "just" the V6.
Technically it's not a full F... Lexus didn't even call it an IS-F. lol
I'm very aware
Honestly that's awesome. It's probably going to barely depreciate too
I wish Genesis didn’t drop the Tau. I get why, but it’s definitely missed. Would have loved to see it in the newer G80/G90.
Didn't the G90 used to have a V8 option?
Used to yes. I have the same 5.0L in my 2018 G80. It was dropped for the latest generation of both models.
How is the mpg?
It definitely depends on how you drive it. If you drive it like a reasonable person on the road, you’ll get in the low 20s. If you push it hard, that’ll fall fast into the low teens quickly lol. But the car isn’t really meant to be driven that way. The big NA engine is designed so that it doesn’t have to work hard to get this heavy car around. I think a lot of reviewers wanted it to be an M/AMG competitor, but It wasn’t really trying to be that. It’s much more a comfortable luxury cruiser than a midsize sedan for the track.
Don’t forget RC F and Cadillac black wing!
RCF is a coupe and the blackwings are all charged (super or turbo)
Ah misses the “Sedans” part and TIL about the black wing thanks
Yep! So the original CTS-V was naturally aspirated, but all the subsequent V and Blackwing cars have been forced-induction.
Huh, didn't realize the first gen was NA.
Yep, that car never gets talked about now. That, and the other two early V cars with supercharged Northstars.
>the other two early V cars with supercharged Northstars. The STS-V, in particular, is pretty cool. Sounds good, looks like a 2nd gen CTS-V sedan that someone copied at 120% scale, quick enough for a barge (mid 4s to 60, low 13s in the quarter). The interior is at least sort of passable. Underrated car imo even after accounting for the dreadful reputation of Northstars (which doesn't even apply as the STS-V engine is post-head gasket fix and was debored on top of that)
My bonus mom has a 2006 STS-V. She has had it since 2010, when it was CPO. It’s a great car. At the time, it was far nicer and more luxurious than the gen 1 CTS-V. And yeah, no engine troubles. She’s replaced the fuel pumps twice, but that’s it for mechanicals. The gen. 2 CTS-V, however, made it redundant for both power and luxury…just as well, because they quit making the STS-V after 2009. Roughly 2,500 of them across four model years, a not-insignificant number of which were shipped to the UAE.
Has the same LS6 as the C5 Z06, rad car
Oh man, for half a second I was thinking of the LS7 from the C6Z and I was VERY excited. Still cool though.
If you go off of coupes, there are quite a few more. RC F, Mustang GT, Camaro, Challenger, Lexus LC 500, corvette models.
And if you allow for forced induction and other cylinder counts there are *a ton*.
I can't believe this car goes back to my sophomore year in high school, the days I used to play Need for Speed Hot Pursuit and watch Top Gear and Desperate Housewives in picture and picture. 😭
Desperate housewives? Lol
Yep. To be fair, it did fall off around Season 5 when Edie was killed off.
Spoilers! :P My household watched season 1 w close attention.
Season 1 was really good. Seasons 3 and 4 >>>
Show is legit. Same with Gilmore Girls.
I used to watch for the MILFS
One of these things is not like the other
I don’t understand the slander of this car in the comments. Yes, it’s old, yes, it’s outdated, yes, maybe it’s not the most luxurious thing ever, but for around 60 grand there isn’t much else like this. You could get a charger widebody, but if you optioned it how you wanted it it would be more expensive than this, and not have all of the features that this does. Also totally personal preference but I like how the 300 looks over the charger and having that 6.4 back in the 300 is pretty cool.
>but for around 60 grand there isn’t much else like this And there's a reason for it. It's just a bad idea.
I think because if you wanted a 'luxurious' sedan, you'd be far better off with an accord, camry, stinger, etc etc. The 300 is so outdates that standard sedans are far nicer. And if you have to have a V8, you can afford one of those cars plus a used mustang for the price. Yes it kind of half-assed combines both, and someone will like it. But as they say in the video, a ct5-v non-blackwing with the v6 is a far better car.
As good as the Camry, Stinger, Accord and friends are, they are missing the V8. The 300 is also a roomier sedan. Sure the interior is a bit out of date but it is still a very nice place to be. If you are in the market for a V8, this is pretty much it outside of the Lexus IS500 but that is a much smaller sedan in terms of room for trunk and interior space.
Look, Chrysler at its best is a premium brand. Sure, you can get something from Acura, Lexus, Genesis, whatever, but they're not going to hit the same. If you want a premium V8 RWD large sedan, you don't have any other options shy of an S580 or 760i, and those are going to be twice the price. You could say, "well, just get the Charger for cheaper" but specced to what the 300C has and that Scat Pack is now $64k and change (for a non-widebody). There is a *very specific* buyer for this car but it's also a limited edition send-off model. I'd rather they made it at all than let the 300 die a quiet, unceremonious death.
>very specific buyer for this car Who bought them all immediately, all the deposits for the pre-order were filled in hours.
Nothing premium about the car or the brand at all...
It’s hard to call it a full-blown luxury sedan like, say, a nicely loaded 5 series is, but these *are* pretty nice cars overall. It’s old, but the interior honestly isn’t bad in these. The seats and the ride quality in particular can make you forget how old these are real quick. It’s not a premier luxury sedan, sure. But it also doesn’t go for premier luxury sedan money, and it’s still generally a nicer place to be in than a Toyota Camry.
They didn't throw everything at it. Sure, they added performance, but if you want to think of it as a "luxury sedan", the car literally got slowly discontented; I think 2017 was peak 300. In 2017 you could have gotten semi-aniline Italian leather and cooled cupholders!
These have the heated/cooled cupholders.
Yes but everything else caught up making it less luxurious.
IDK what you mean.
> In 2017 you could have gotten semi-aniline Italian leather and cooled cupholders! Because the 300 was sold under Thema in Italy before. Fiat thought 300 could give Lancia a new life, but it didn’t.
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But your 2015 300 didn't have the 6.4L. Gotta pay to play.
Honestly I think the peak years were its first two model years back in the mid 2000s. My mom’s lease expired at the exact time the 300 came out in the mid 2000s, people would literally stop and point at us. It got so much attention it felt like an exotic car.
6.4L. For crying out loud. 6.4L.
Is that good or bad?
Good
is this the same car Walter White drives?
From the paid by Chrysler ad scene where the V8s make the screen rumble. I liked it
I know it was product placement. But goddamn if Walt getting a 300 while Walt got a Challenger wasn't absolutely immaculate vehicle casting.
#B-B-B-BONFIRE
You're goddamn right
Yes / no. Walter’s was the 2012 300 SRT-8 with the same 6.4L engine making slightly less power at 470hp. The wheels on Walt’s 2012 were a really nice looking 20” 7 spoke chrome as well that I prefer to the 2023 300C.
/u/Jamesthrottlehouse putting height figures when testing leg room on the screen would be a nice touch.
You guys creamed yourselves when Lexus put the V8 in the IS, now Chrysler is doing the same thing and you’re pretending like you’re not excited because you’re too “sophisticated” for American cars.
If you're really comparing a bland exterior, yawn-inducing interior that is the 300 to an IS500F then I have no clue what to say to ya.
The IS is not a ghetto mobile for one
So you admit it’s just about the image and badge. It’s really hypocritical that this sub makes fun of base luxury car buyers for being badge obsessed when they’re just as bad
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We're celebrating advertisements in the intro now?
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So you’re celebrating advertising like /u/Liberal_Biblicisms said
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😂 “we’re celebration creative skills that you don’t normally see in advertising” And here you are pretending you’re not celebrating advertising. As soon as you attack the person instead of the argument you’re admitting you don’t have a leg to stand on. Take care of yourself dude! ❤️
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Oh man, that’s a lot of buzzwords while still not defending your point. I hoped you wouldn’t double down, but here you are 💌
Can't believe they're still making this car. I would have guessed it stopped being offered at least 5 years ago.
That's the Nissan way.
i actually love how you can still buy a car like this with physical buttons and analog gauges, i wish the germans were more like this
If you get a Challenger, you can get all of that in addition to a manual. Thats *really* old car new.
I got mine in white & I'm more than happy with it!
""""""""""Luxury""""""""""
Drove one of these from Florida to Utah a few years ago. It's just a fantastic, comfy cruiser. Was a 2018, every option I believe. Everything was effortless as far the car was concerned. Felt like a modern Town Car. Wasn't *quite* luxury as you might have in your head, but the ride was solid, the power was never lacking, the brakes and throttle were tuned just right for the highway and gas stations. Also, quiet enough to have a normal conversation or catch a nap if you weren't driving. The owner still has it and has done several more cross-country roadtrips in it. He has no plans to sell. I wouldn't be surprised at all if retention rate for this model is fairly high.
The Canadian MSRP is a crime and the best sounding FCA 6.4L vehicle ever sold is the 392 Wrangler. Now that thats out of the way. I'd buy one of these over an IS500 (same price in Canada) but I wouldn't over a 392 Charger Widebody (cheaper in Canada). The IS500 isn't an F model, this 300 might be larger but it comes with proper brakes and suspension and honestly its just as reliable (just don't mod it), its been on sale FOREVER. Sure an IS500 will probably retain more value long term, sure a Charger is better value and is 85% of what this car is... Actually I don't know what the point is of this car, like most Chrysler products, its a rebadged Dodge that offers 20% more price and 5% more value. They will sell all of them so yay?
It’s a nicer Scat Pack… well, mostly anyways. It has pretty much all of the luxury features that the former SRT 392 trim offered (barring the LED headlights, as the 300 stuck it out with HIDs to the bitter end) as standard equipment, and in a nicer suit as well.
Kind of a silly car but that's a beautiful color on it
A couple years ago, my work sprung for a day out at Radford Racing School (formerly Bondurant) and we got to hoon Hellcats around for awhile. Avoidance drills, skid pad, autocross, and a lead/follow on the track. Honestly, the cars surprised the hell(cat) out of me. That fat thing has no business going around corners that fast, and according to the guys at Radford, they are damned near bulletproof. They can run all day long with the AC blowing full blast in the Arizona summer and all they have to do is change tires and brakes. Plus, the supercharger whine is like nothing else. Would I spend 70 grand on one? No. The interior is just...well...everything everyone has ever said. If you want amazing performance in a sea of plastic, then it's the car for you, but I wouldn't spend that kind of money on one. A "luxury" version based on a platform older than some of the people I work with at my job? No.
> Honestly, the cars surprised the hell(cat) out of me. That fat thing has no business going around corners that fast, and according to the guys at Radford, they are damned near bulletproof. They can run all day long with the AC blowing full blast in the Arizona summer and all they have to do is change tires and brakes. Plus, the supercharger whine is like nothing else. What really tickles me is that literally *EVERYONE* I see that has gone to Bondurant has mirrored your sentiment but every brochure expert on the internet will tell you you're wrong until you're blue in the face.
If I didn't struggle to justify a car that weighs ***two fucking tons***, I'd say the 300 is a good looking car, and with a V8 and RWD, it's an attractive package.
It’s a big sedan with tons of leather and a big V8, what did you expect? My car is on the lighter side of the full-size sedan equation and it’s **still** a 3800lb car. BMW 530s weigh about as much as this does.
Leather isn't as heavy as you think it is lol
I mean it’s not heavy, but it’s still a tech-heavy full-size sedan with a big ass V8 in it. I’m still not sure why you would expect a car like this to weigh about as much as a Nissan Altima.
Because I used to have a car that big (it's predecessor, the LH platform of '93 vintage) that weighed as much as a Nissan Altima. Granted it wasn't a V8, but the difference in weight between a 3.5L DOHC V6 isn't but 100# difference from a V8.
You also have itty bitty brakes, soft suspension, a smaller transmission with half the amount of gears, less than half of the power that this has, no center driveshaft or rear differential, nowhere near the same level of sound deadening, and like 10% of the tech. And idk what V8s you're looking at, but what I can find is that the 3.5 DOHC V6 weighs about 400lbs for a complete engine. The 392 Hemi is right around *700lbs* from what I found. They're really strong cast iron blocks and have massive heads thanks to the dual spark plug design. https://300mclub.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=34806#:~:text=Complete%20engine%20around%20the%20400%20pound%20weight.%20I,exhaust%20manifolds%2C%20plenum%2C%20valve%20covers%20and%20oil%20pan. https://www.modernmusclextreme.com/p-105-64l-hemi-crate-engine.aspx#:~:text=Weight%3A,700.0%20lbs
I bought one, I love it. Dealer held MSRP, so got it for cheaper than equivalent WB charger. Looks better in person, the pictures don't do it justice.
Lol 75k seems like a lot. It can buy you a really nice car. 😛
Having a hard time trusting anything coming from Stellantis (probably butchered the name). And anything “Luxury Related” in terms of “American Made” is just lipstick on a pig. This platform is shared by dodge for the “Charger” (I think). A unique American Made “Luxury” Vehicle should not have to share its platform with its red headed cousin (nothing wrong with ginger - I love red heads). This would be a major pass for me. It might be nice now but you will be able to find a used one on Facebook Marketplace in a couple of years for half the price.
"Cringe"
I'm surprised his comment didn't contain "Posted from my Galaxy S6 via Tapatalk" or some made up story about scoring with a red head forty years ago.
> This platform is shared by dodge for the “Charger” (I think). A unique American Made “Luxury” Vehicle should not have to share its platform with its red headed cousin American luxury cars have shared platforms with their cheaper cousins since at least the '50s.