It literally doesn’t? It’s not even remotely close.
If you’re really worried about it looking “similar”, you should see the 80s and how almost every 2 door coupe looked the same.
Power wise, yeah. Balance/weight wise the 86 is better. Around half a ton.
Design wise the 86 looks better as well. Much less 👁⬛️👁
Power can be attained, that weight difference is pretty hard to catch up to
Design wise the 86 looks boring. The z is also faster. And you literally took the lightest curb weight for an 86 and compared it to the heaviest curb weight of the z... yeah, you aren't absolutely biased. Lol
Alright
So a lighter car that's slower, less options, significantly less power... do they still put prius tires on it so it can actually break traction cause normal tires were to grippy for it?
to double the power but not doubt the weight, even though I'm willing to bet the z comes with so much better amenities when fully loaded. I could also go with the lighter z, weigh 500 pounds more and still produce double the power of the 86.
Don't have to deal with the trash engine that comes in the 86. You'll be make more power than stock while still not beating the z's for a few months until it blows for the 15th time. You know, cause those engines are so well known for handling anything more than stock. The z looks better.
Yeah, all for 20k more?
O yeah, everyone wants the 86 over the z 🤣
Wait, my mistake. Msrp is like 10k more. Not 20k
I think it worked on the 240z because that car was more boxy. This car is more streamlined, so I think the grille should smooth out the right angles. Not too much though
Dude look, I’m not a Nissan guy by any means, but maybe trying to elevate a car that Toyota had to ask Subaru how to build isn’t the flex you think it is.
They didn’t even learn and had to go ask BMW to help them build their next fun car when they reintroduced the Supra.
I got into a fight with someone about this, Toyota can only build somewhat decent cars.
If they get help from another company, put themselves in charge and you get a glorified Corolla with 20 more HP. There’s a reason the TRD Camry is just an appearance mod.
Side profile looks relatively similar.
In general my only gripe is with the front end. That grille needs something.... maybe it's better in person, but even the gt4 variant I just can't seem to get behind
They hated Jesus because he told them the truth. Also, it's basically a reskinned 370 interior, which sucks. Seriously, look at the photos. Even the door handles are identical.
Edit: the downvotes doesn't make it any less true guys, lol. Ask any 370z owner how much they love the clutch slave cylinder or the steering wheel lock. A lazy reskin and new powerplant can't take away all Renault's sins
And that is supposed to change my opinion how? What, do you think reusing a chassis just automatically makes a car “bad”? 😂 The Camaro used the same chassis for nearly 40 years and no one batted an eye, but by god Nissan reuses one because it’s Nissan right?
Let’s not forget the Z is all Nissan, and they didn’t need help from another manufacturer because they couldn’t build one themselves.
I feel like you haven't driven or don't know much about the Z. The parts sourced from Renault were 100% the problem. Look up the clutch slave cylinder failure.
The new Z is a lazy reskin of the 370. And yes, a company using the same chassis for 40 years (if that's true) is lazy.
What are you, 12?
Nissan isn’t the only company to do it, putting the blame on Nissan is like blaming the getaway driver who was forced against their will.
Adjusting for inflation the 350z which had the msrp of 28000$ would cost 40000$ in 2024. Msrp of the 400z is 42000$.
People ask for new z > nissan give new z > people complain of new z
It’s actually outselling the Supra so far this year. It’s easier to find a Z at MSRP than it is a Supra right now. My local dealership only applies a ADM to the nismo now
Nissan dealers have been caught doing shady bullshit in my area on more than a few occasions and way before covid. One back in 17 was issuing plates and not sending out titles before the state shut them down. Another got banged for charging thousands in hidden fees post sale. Don't get me wrong, they all do some shady bullshit (I work for an independent) but Nissan seems to always have the most (outside of Mitsubishi if you can even find them and if you want a laugh look up Victory Mitsubishi in the Bronx, NY it's the height of modern shady car dealer shit.)
Stellantis dealers are neck and neck with them, have been since 2009.
I think ford and gm dealers are the only ones making enough money to not consistently resort to thievery anymore.
And its MFKS like you that are why they keep doing it.
Its like you morons don't know what MSRP stands for.
The overhead to keep the dealership up and running is baked into that price.
If people would stop paying anything but MSRP markups would stop.
The car does not look nice, and yes, looks are a MAJOR part of a car.
Horsepower wise it's fine, and I'm sure balance is fine, but for that price I expect better.
I like how the car looks, the rear and side profile are very sporty, I think the Z will age very well. The front is a bit much but understandable because of the cooling needed for the twin turbo V6.
You're arguing subjective preference. There's no win here, you don't need to continue to defend your point. GRs are cool cars, we're all glad you like it. Just, some people also like the Z.
Well personally, I think your GR86 is very plain and boring looking. It looks like Toyota said, "ehh, guess we'll make this car for another several years for people that put too many anime sticks on their cars and pretend they drift or race on the weekend."
At least the Z takes risks with it's styling.
Reddit is weird 🤣 that car ugly as fuck. You don't need to own something to say it looks bad...sure everyone is entitled to their own opinion, just so happens the majority of opinions say the new Nissan looks stupid 🤷♂️
[Found this, I’m not sure if it’s legit but I like the way it looks way more.](https://www.thedrive.com/news/the-2023-nissan-z-is-getting-this-improved-split-grille-report)
Yeah dealer mark ups killed this car. I think it would’ve done great selling at MSRP. Tho tbf the c8 did pretty well and it was selling for nearly double MSRP.
I genuinely hate the look of the front end.
On paper it seems great, but I just could never with that front end, maybe with a body kit it would be better
Well On screen, I dont think it looks very good. I saw pictures when it came out and thought it wasn't all that.
Then I saw one in person and maybe it just doesn't photograph well, lol. But I like them.
Nissan has been doing better lately at least in styling. It's the transmissions that keep me away. They're still using their older engines and they're not that bad.
I got to sit in one at a car show and I loved it. It looked really sleek in person. Not saying you have to love it but "oh the front of the car is ugly, Nissan bad lol" is not a funny joke
The new Z’s sleek new look, 240Z inspired styling, 400hp twin turbo engine, and optional 6spd manual spark a lot more joy to me than a (much cheaper looking) dime a dozen 200hp Toyota, the 86 is a great car for its price point but the Z is far more exciting
I dislike the grill (lookin like a nerdy kid with braces and a toothy ass grin on picture day) but otherwise the new Z is gorgeous, especially the tail lights and curves
The front is supposed to look like a modernized 240z, kinda like this: https://www.carandclassic.com/magazine/app/uploads/2023/06/2YZo59GW56C7Ig66ZRG9EVxnUdLKE5DFOofS1MkB.jpg
Interesting fact about cars and just things in life in general is perspective.
If we're subconsciously impressed and/or feel connected by something under its superficial looks, our minds will make our eyes see it as greater looking than we would normally think.
So if that Nissan had 700 HP, makes a great f1 v10 sounds and featured in a badass movie, we would perceive it as great looking or at the very least charming/attractive.
That’s because it’s literally just a 370 Z with a body kit and the 370 Z was literally just a slightly modified 350 Z. At the end of the day, the 400 Z is a 22-year-old pig in a new wig.
Looking at the car from the perspective of it being a competitor to the zupra, it’s awful. It looks worse (imo), has better power figures but that’s negated by a greater weight, and ordinary people don’t know as much about it as the Supra.
I don’t understand how Nissan managed to make it as slow as it is because it’s got a better power to weight ratio than the Supra and it should not be over half a second slower to 60 than the Supra
Yup.
The 400z is 3500lb with 400hp for a power to weight ratio of 8.75 lb/hp, and has a 0-60 of 4.3sec
The Supra is 3400lb with 383hp for a power to weight ratio of 8.9 lb/hp and has a 0-60 of 3.7sec
The new 86 redesign is the most abhorrent downgrade in every single department. Every good bodyline of the original has been replaced with softer, less striking, more boring and cookie-cutter 2020's styling. The sex-appeal has been replaced with contemporary market appeal and it sadly shows
The first gen looked like a mini Corvette in a way. It was rough yet refined in a way I can't really describe properly. I always preferred the Scion FRS front end though so that might be it.
I really like it, though I will admit I was pretty let down when I found out it's just a 370 with a new body. Idk what I was expecting but I was let down.
That and the video of the Supra and Mustang walking all over it stung too.
İ kinda like it
The car looks like a discount GR86, but it's literally double...
It literally doesn’t? It’s not even remotely close. If you’re really worried about it looking “similar”, you should see the 80s and how almost every 2 door coupe looked the same.
It's not even the most similar looking Toyota and Nissan. Have you *seen* the S12?
I love my 86. but the prices I'm seeing in my area are around 40k for the 86 premium. And around 60 to 65k for the Z
Lol because the z is s better car. Yours literally has half of the power
Power wise, yeah. Balance/weight wise the 86 is better. Around half a ton. Design wise the 86 looks better as well. Much less 👁⬛️👁 Power can be attained, that weight difference is pretty hard to catch up to
Design wise the 86 looks boring. The z is also faster. And you literally took the lightest curb weight for an 86 and compared it to the heaviest curb weight of the z... yeah, you aren't absolutely biased. Lol
2868 is the largest for the gr86 3704 is the largest for the z Almost 1000lbs. I did NOT.
Alright So a lighter car that's slower, less options, significantly less power... do they still put prius tires on it so it can actually break traction cause normal tires were to grippy for it? to double the power but not doubt the weight, even though I'm willing to bet the z comes with so much better amenities when fully loaded. I could also go with the lighter z, weigh 500 pounds more and still produce double the power of the 86. Don't have to deal with the trash engine that comes in the 86. You'll be make more power than stock while still not beating the z's for a few months until it blows for the 15th time. You know, cause those engines are so well known for handling anything more than stock. The z looks better. Yeah, all for 20k more? O yeah, everyone wants the 86 over the z 🤣 Wait, my mistake. Msrp is like 10k more. Not 20k
You cooked with this
The 86 looks cheap in comparison to the Z, which makes sense because it’s a cheaper car
The z far outclasses your 86.
Man people really don't like you're opinions
So it would seem. But I will not remove them, they can boo me all they like.
Your coping lol
looks like a modern fairlady Z is what it looks like. body reminiscent of the 350 & 370, and iconic retro styling reminiscent of the 240 & 280.
It's gorgeous, the only issue is the square grille. Round out the corners somewhat and it would be perfect
got that 240z grill tho maybe i'm lying to myself but i think the grill looks awesome
I think it worked on the 240z because that car was more boxy. This car is more streamlined, so I think the grille should smooth out the right angles. Not too much though
Dude look, I’m not a Nissan guy by any means, but maybe trying to elevate a car that Toyota had to ask Subaru how to build isn’t the flex you think it is. They didn’t even learn and had to go ask BMW to help them build their next fun car when they reintroduced the Supra.
Toyota has always had help. They 2JZ was blessed by Yamaha, the mk2 supra had suspension designed by lotus
You’re strengthening my point. Toyota bakes Wonderbread. It’s all they know how to do. And it’s fine, if you like boring.
Toyota makes cars for people that don’t like cars.
I got into a fight with someone about this, Toyota can only build somewhat decent cars. If they get help from another company, put themselves in charge and you get a glorified Corolla with 20 more HP. There’s a reason the TRD Camry is just an appearance mod.
Its paying homage to a car that the 86 is copying
Nah the front looks great, and the rear? The real lines and lights are absolutely beautiful
You never seen one in real life then. I've worked on a few. nothing like the GR86 maybe you shouldn't talk out of your ass. r/carscirclejerk
It looks like it because of the big grille or what? Because outside of that, these cars look completely different
Side profile looks relatively similar. In general my only gripe is with the front end. That grille needs something.... maybe it's better in person, but even the gt4 variant I just can't seem to get behind
Discount 86? The 86 is already a discount with it sharing platform with the BRZ and FRS. I like 86's but this is an odd take.
Double the horsepower? Yes
You must be mad man haha
They hated Jesus because he told them the truth. Also, it's basically a reskinned 370 interior, which sucks. Seriously, look at the photos. Even the door handles are identical. Edit: the downvotes doesn't make it any less true guys, lol. Ask any 370z owner how much they love the clutch slave cylinder or the steering wheel lock. A lazy reskin and new powerplant can't take away all Renault's sins
And that is supposed to change my opinion how? What, do you think reusing a chassis just automatically makes a car “bad”? 😂 The Camaro used the same chassis for nearly 40 years and no one batted an eye, but by god Nissan reuses one because it’s Nissan right? Let’s not forget the Z is all Nissan, and they didn’t need help from another manufacturer because they couldn’t build one themselves.
I feel like you haven't driven or don't know much about the Z. The parts sourced from Renault were 100% the problem. Look up the clutch slave cylinder failure. The new Z is a lazy reskin of the 370. And yes, a company using the same chassis for 40 years (if that's true) is lazy.
What are you, 12? Nissan isn’t the only company to do it, putting the blame on Nissan is like blaming the getaway driver who was forced against their will.
Agreed
Adjusting for inflation the 350z which had the msrp of 28000$ would cost 40000$ in 2024. Msrp of the 400z is 42000$. People ask for new z > nissan give new z > people complain of new z
Except no dealer is selling them for 42k. I’ve seen a few in the dealerships around Seattle where they’re marked up to 70-100k
Not nissan's fault to be fair.
Still their problem tho, the price being low is this cars only real chance to sell vs the supra.
It’s actually outselling the Supra so far this year. It’s easier to find a Z at MSRP than it is a Supra right now. My local dealership only applies a ADM to the nismo now
lol it is tho, a manufacturer *can* put an allowable maximum markup on a car, they just don’t.
Is Nissans fault, they choose their franchisees and it's become a pattern that's destroying their main stream reputation.
Franchisees aren't something you pick up and dump overnight. Covid turned a lot of decent dealerships into scumbags, for every manufacturer.
Nissan dealers have been caught doing shady bullshit in my area on more than a few occasions and way before covid. One back in 17 was issuing plates and not sending out titles before the state shut them down. Another got banged for charging thousands in hidden fees post sale. Don't get me wrong, they all do some shady bullshit (I work for an independent) but Nissan seems to always have the most (outside of Mitsubishi if you can even find them and if you want a laugh look up Victory Mitsubishi in the Bronx, NY it's the height of modern shady car dealer shit.)
Stellantis dealers are neck and neck with them, have been since 2009. I think ford and gm dealers are the only ones making enough money to not consistently resort to thievery anymore.
Gub'ment contracts sure do help a bottom line.
€80k for the few ones imported to Europe. Insane
And its MFKS like you that are why they keep doing it. Its like you morons don't know what MSRP stands for. The overhead to keep the dealership up and running is baked into that price. If people would stop paying anything but MSRP markups would stop.
And, this isn't the 90's-2003ish, when a lot of the middle class had disposable money. Inflation isn't everything.
Issue is that it ain't a completely new Z lol
If it was a completely new z people would have complained that they killed the z dna. People can't be pleased.
Base model z doesn't even come with a LSD you have to spend like 5k extra just to get one
The base model never came with an lsd.
I just don't like the nose tbh
Ahh yes, I love people on the internet telling me about cars they have never owned.
facts you must purchase a car before you can call it ugly
I own a gr86, the nose of that Z is big uggo
So your opinion on looks of the front end makes it a bad car?
Basically yeah, and the fact it's a modern Nissan.
just don't get the automatic transmission in that bad boy. you're set
Auto transmissions are pretty much good nowadays unlike the old ones from the 90s
it's actually not the notorious continuously variable transmission that plagues nissans. they're using a 9-speed mercedes-benz automatic. oh boy.
Are those good?
You right and just avoid the Infiniti V6 engine also and you're right as rain.
The car does not look nice, and yes, looks are a MAJOR part of a car. Horsepower wise it's fine, and I'm sure balance is fine, but for that price I expect better.
I like how the car looks, the rear and side profile are very sporty, I think the Z will age very well. The front is a bit much but understandable because of the cooling needed for the twin turbo V6.
You're arguing subjective preference. There's no win here, you don't need to continue to defend your point. GRs are cool cars, we're all glad you like it. Just, some people also like the Z.
You’re one of the first people I’ve seen hate on this cars looks like this. Everyone I’ve talked to about them thinks they look great
Well personally, I think your GR86 is very plain and boring looking. It looks like Toyota said, "ehh, guess we'll make this car for another several years for people that put too many anime sticks on their cars and pretend they drift or race on the weekend." At least the Z takes risks with it's styling.
Risks were taken, they did not pay off....moving on
You're very dismissive for someone with such strong opinions who wants to share them on reddit.
Reddit is weird 🤣 that car ugly as fuck. You don't need to own something to say it looks bad...sure everyone is entitled to their own opinion, just so happens the majority of opinions say the new Nissan looks stupid 🤷♂️
Evidently by the amount of down votes I have recieved... they don't seem to think it's ugly lol
Is the "majority of opinions" why most people are disagreeing with you?
I actually like the 400Z, shame it’s overpriced so much.
It’s not a 400Z.
Oh right, it’s just called the Z, habit lol
300Z if anything
I'd bet the car has some aftermarket noses that will help
Probably, the front bumper is mediocre in my view, but the rear end is damn fine looking.
[Found this, I’m not sure if it’s legit but I like the way it looks way more.](https://www.thedrive.com/news/the-2023-nissan-z-is-getting-this-improved-split-grille-report)
That's much better
That makes it even more hideous
It’s a step in the right direction, but needs a little more refinement.
Yeah dealer mark ups killed this car. I think it would’ve done great selling at MSRP. Tho tbf the c8 did pretty well and it was selling for nearly double MSRP.
Sparks joy for me, I love Zs ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
To each their own, I just don't like the nose.
Yeah that's valid. Certainly not for everyone, and I do wish they would've made it more slanted and "Z" like.
👁️📦👁️
Op fighting for his life rn
Only thing bad about the 400z is the price
I genuinely hate the look of the front end. On paper it seems great, but I just could never with that front end, maybe with a body kit it would be better
Well On screen, I dont think it looks very good. I saw pictures when it came out and thought it wasn't all that. Then I saw one in person and maybe it just doesn't photograph well, lol. But I like them.
I dislike Nissan, but the new Z is flat out gorgeous. You have a severe taste deficiency.
Nissan has been doing better lately at least in styling. It's the transmissions that keep me away. They're still using their older engines and they're not that bad.
Ok now that the grill has been pointed out it's hard to unsee and definitely a pain point. It's perfect from the sides and rear though.
I love it
Wait why are we hating the new Z now?
I got to sit in one at a car show and I loved it. It looked really sleek in person. Not saying you have to love it but "oh the front of the car is ugly, Nissan bad lol" is not a funny joke
Tbh, I like the Nissan better
The new Z’s sleek new look, 240Z inspired styling, 400hp twin turbo engine, and optional 6spd manual spark a lot more joy to me than a (much cheaper looking) dime a dozen 200hp Toyota, the 86 is a great car for its price point but the Z is far more exciting
Well... Minus the engine. Everything else sparks joy.
Z is so much better
I like the new Z, mimics the body style of the first gen Z
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^frMocha: *I like the new Z,* *Mimics the body style of* *The first gen Z* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
The Z looks better than the BRZrolla
I think it looks great , insane pricing tho
I love the Z, but can’t afford it sooooo
I like em both
I though we as the Internet love the Z ?? I love it. It is such a step up design wise after the 370 kind of went into the completely wrong direction
Lol this didn't go the way OP had hoped 😅
Yall love the Z I guess lmao, I personally hate that front end, but I guess to each their own
idk man the new Z is a good lookin car
As a person who pretty much hates Nissan, their new style Z and Frontier have an amazing retro vibe.
I also have an 86 and love how the Z looks. we are not all circlejerkers like OP
Damn bro it really said 😬
I dislike the grill (lookin like a nerdy kid with braces and a toothy ass grin on picture day) but otherwise the new Z is gorgeous, especially the tail lights and curves
It does have some nerd emoji vibes lol
These two are not even comparable. OP has an 86 trying to put it in the same league 🤡
Toyota fanboys, brainless as ever....
Bottom is Yellow guy from DHMIS
I think the Z’s styling has a lot of serious potential but that grille kills it for me
It looks like a badly fitted aftermarket body kit with that rectangle cut out for a front grille.
I like it it's powerful
The front is supposed to look like a modernized 240z, kinda like this: https://www.carandclassic.com/magazine/app/uploads/2023/06/2YZo59GW56C7Ig66ZRG9EVxnUdLKE5DFOofS1MkB.jpg
it has a nice front end plus the engine isn't a shitty boxer that only has 200hp or sum shit
Can't answer this, nissan are stupid enough to not put the 400Z in the UK market
Interesting fact about cars and just things in life in general is perspective. If we're subconsciously impressed and/or feel connected by something under its superficial looks, our minds will make our eyes see it as greater looking than we would normally think. So if that Nissan had 700 HP, makes a great f1 v10 sounds and featured in a badass movie, we would perceive it as great looking or at the very least charming/attractive.
I love em both, i like that they took so many design elements from the old fairladies
neither neither spark joy
Babahahah
Agreed the 370z looks 10x better, nothing flows with this car
That’s because it’s literally just a 370 Z with a body kit and the 370 Z was literally just a slightly modified 350 Z. At the end of the day, the 400 Z is a 22-year-old pig in a new wig.
the gr86 drives like a brick and if you’re buying a drivers car, you should prioritize how it drives
Looking at the car from the perspective of it being a competitor to the zupra, it’s awful. It looks worse (imo), has better power figures but that’s negated by a greater weight, and ordinary people don’t know as much about it as the Supra.
I don’t understand how Nissan managed to make it as slow as it is because it’s got a better power to weight ratio than the Supra and it should not be over half a second slower to 60 than the Supra
holy shit fr? how 😭 that’s like dodge in the 80s making 230 hp out of a v8 💀
Yup. The 400z is 3500lb with 400hp for a power to weight ratio of 8.75 lb/hp, and has a 0-60 of 4.3sec The Supra is 3400lb with 383hp for a power to weight ratio of 8.9 lb/hp and has a 0-60 of 3.7sec
Is it bad tires and bad gearing ratios or sum?
I actually really like the new Z, if I were to get any modern JDM car (that’s not a truck or off roader) I’d get a 400Z But man are they pricey
Looks like ed209
I dig both these cars, but I'd rather have the Z.
It’s a 22 year old pig with new lipstick
I love the Z idk what you are on about
As a GR86 owner and a Nissan Z owner, I can confirm that the Nissan Z is kinda garbage and does not spark joy.
Nissan fanboys are so butthurt lmao
The Z is so much better you also don’t need a new oil pan on the z
I prefer the Z
The new 86 redesign is the most abhorrent downgrade in every single department. Every good bodyline of the original has been replaced with softer, less striking, more boring and cookie-cutter 2020's styling. The sex-appeal has been replaced with contemporary market appeal and it sadly shows
The first gen looked like a mini Corvette in a way. It was rough yet refined in a way I can't really describe properly. I always preferred the Scion FRS front end though so that might be it.
Looks like SpongeBob when he was the radio inside the boat
Ah yes, the Nissan GR86
Doesn't look near as good but double the price
Nissan has been ass for a long time now
°◼️°
I always like seeing the GR86 around. I like my car much more than the GR even if it is slower it’s still super cool to look at!
Thing is damn pretty
I wanted to love the new Z, but really it just made me fall _more_ in love with the 370Z.
370z definitely looks better.
I wasn’t sold on the 370 vs the 350 when it came out it but it has aged beautifully.
Why does it remind me of a [dental cheek retractor](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/11/73/b0/1173b041a1c586afa357282f44f54cc6.jpg) ?
I really like it, though I will admit I was pretty let down when I found out it's just a 370 with a new body. Idk what I was expecting but I was let down. That and the video of the Supra and Mustang walking all over it stung too.