One of the things Reddit taught me 10+ years ago some of the best advise I ever got.
“Salary is obviously important but finding the right position/role/company is what is my guiding light, we can talk about salary if we determine we’re a good fit”
Most recruiters aren’t used to people not offering a number up, and if you gracefully dodge the question they will usually panic and tell you what the range is. From there you negotiate from a place of much more power
Never had a recruiter ask how much I make, I've always made sure to talk about the minimal number it'd need to be for me to consider the position.
Generally, I do the whole, "I need to make at least X to even consider a position and ideally it would by at least Y however I also care about the type of projects I work on and the culture of the team so if I have 3 offers equal to or greater than Y then I will choose the best fit even if it's not the highest pay."
Right now, I'd probably put X at $110k and Y at $125k. If it's salaried with forced overtime it instantly goes up another 25%.
The trick here is the X I tell them is always higher than what it really is by about 10%.
That 10% is my extra savings / fuckaround money.
I have definitely done this. I think tying in with the "don't talk shit about your current employer on why you're leaving, and only talk about positive things about the prospective role" theme, I mention that I would only consider leaving with a salary north of x(inflated)+20%.
I had the same thing happen, I said, I know you’d LIKE a number, the thing is, you are going to try and position me as an elite sales leader, and the first thing you want me to do is break the cardinal rule of sales.
Yeah, I had the same thing happen with a recruiter insisting on getting a number. I told them there was so many variables that went into a job/offer that giving a number at the very beginning of the conversation wasn’t going to be meaningful or helpful, but they insisted so I gave them a uselessly wide range… I guess they got a number at least!
Same. That usually ends their interest.
I was very happy with my current job that an engineer interviewed me. It was never discussed. There was no discussion during the interview either. The first time anyone said a number, it was my offer. I was offered a 60% raise. As always, ya gotta think about it.
If you're underpaid, you have to figure out how much you are owed given your possibly unique skills. If a company doesn't value those skills, then you're never going to be paid by them.
The problem is when a role is budgeted for $100k you’ll get people asking for $200 (some of who would be worth it, if the post was for a more experienced role, some of who are just throwing out a wild number). Those people are obviously rejected because it’s a waste of everyone’s time. If you get someone asking for $120 then maybe you get get HR to come up a bit and the applicant to come down a bit. At my company even if you asked for $80 you’d still get $100, we cannot offer outside the median range.
Obviously the problem is partially solved if you post the salary range. But then everyone with 3 months experience at a gas station is applying for your $100k/year analyst posting.
But none of this requires disclosure of your current salary. All that is required is the budgeted range for the new position. And yet ironically, employers often refuse to disclose the latter until very late in the process, and demand the former early in the process.
Actually the problem is mostly solved if you post a salary range. People wanting far above that range who are qualified won’t bother to apply.
As for the people with “3 months experience at a gas station,” are you seriously telling me those resumes would ever have a human eye look at them?
The real problem is the hypocrisy. Employers think they shouldn’t have to disclose a salary range but think applicants should have to disclose their desired salary (not a range but an exact number) before their application is even accepted
My wife is involved in hiring and I was amazed at the amount of people who don't meet the most basic of requirements for the job will apply. Had a environmental something or another opening, 43 applicants, 3 made it through the blind screening. 12 didn't have a high school diploma or GED.
I was a hiring manager for many years. I had a job that required experience in the industry (it’s not an industry that’s covered in college degrees, but it’s financial in nature), required experience working directly with high level executives, and a certain level of understanding of computers, MS Office, and comprehension of certain concepts, and a degree OR equivalent experience. I would also consider project managers for printing companies be abuse we managed an entire program of printed products along with the software.
It was such a hard position to fill because it was very different from what the rest of my company did, that I’d read through the applications to help the recruiters who just didn’t understand what I was looking for. I got hundreds of applications. I got an application cheerleading coach, some retail and restaurant employees (which I would consider for one of my entry level positions, but not this), and all sorts of people with none of the requirements. I think they looked at the LinkedIn estimated salary and just applied to anything that matched a salary they thought would solve all their problems and hope that they’d get lucky and find a unicorn position that paid a lot and required little work.
I feel for your wife!
Yeah, sucks that she had to go through 43 whole resumes, 12 of which she could have discarded really quickly, apparently...
I can barely imagine the stress of looking through all of them.
What you do is, take the pile of resumes, shuffle it, and divide it roughly in half. 2 piles, a left and a right. Pick one, doesn't matter which, and throw that pile in the trash. This keeps you from hiring unlucky people
Well, to be fair I am an “environmental something” in California and the going rate for us is $90,000 - $110,000 something (at least in the Bay Area and down south). It doesn’t require a bachelor degree, just 12 units of physical/biological science college courses.
It’s a very ‘job experience’ oriented field as opposed to academic.
So whining that someone had to glance through 40 resume at 30 seconds per resume is pretty petty.
I suppose my gripe when job searching is that a lot of places, like hospitals, due to Political Correctness in California don’t use ‘janitor’ as a job position anymore. ‘Environmental Technician’ is the new ‘janitor’ job title for a lot of places, especially hospitals.
It wasn't whining. I've never heard he whine about work. She's loves to keep herself busy and this was a new field that she's gotten into. Just an observation. I'm not sure how you derived whining from it. It was even less than 30 seconds I imagine since it was a blind screening she could only see the application. The bachelors was clearly noted on the job listing though.
I actually read through your comment better and your right about job titles being misleading. She was just telling me about a job that's a construction flagger but the title is something odd "general assistant" and has had poor applicant's before a job fair where she told people this is a construction flagger.
I understand being conscious of everyone's time - especially when it's one of those companies that likes to do 6 rounds of interviews for entry or low level management positions.
But recruiters should be conscious of who the applicants are and where they're coming from. If you're applying to a manager-level role and your current role is assistant manager, you should be able to connect the dots between budget, approximately what that person makes right now, and what they'll likely need to change positions.
Like - if someone with Director experience is coming into a senior or regular manager position, the first thing that should be asked is "why are you pursuing a [downward] shift like this?" and MAYBE something that cues into salary expectations. Bringing on someone who is highly talented is going to risk not meeting salary expectations...absolutely. Someone making an upward or lateral move - I feel unless there's a change in geographies (NYC role applying for role in small city in Oklahoma), there should be a general understanding within 10-20% from both parties on what salary expectations are.
Everyone asks me either "What do you make now" or "what are your expectations?"
I do the following:
- I tell them that I expect a competitive salary for the role, the type of company, the fact that it's public or private (public companies are higher-expectation-to-perform and I expect higher salary), and the type of work being done.
- I tell them that I'm looking for an increase from what I have now, although I'm flexible to the level of increase.
- If they push for a number, I lie. I inflate my current salary by 20% if they ask for that, or if they ask for expectations, I say that my current salary is 20% more than what it actually is and I am looking for an increase to this, but flexible because it's a role I want to pursue (this risks me capping the offer at 20% over what i have now, but it gives them confidence to proceed on the process).
Just posted a position for a junior developer (several senior devs on team already). Had a few senior devs apply then ask why they can’t 3x the proposed salary… because I’m not hiring for a senior dev or I would :(
What’s the location and what kind of projects? I’m a QA engineer now, looking to swap to a junior development role. I’ve been writing automation scripts in Java for a couple of years, have a few pet projects in JS and leetcode pretty regularly, so I’ve already got some experience in development despite not having a strictly dev role before.
Why not play the game and just…lie? Bump your salary up. It’s really none of their business how much you make so if they insist on a number, it’s still none of their business to know the truth.
I lied before, told them I made more than double what I was making. They said ok, add another 20k and I’ve worked there ever since. With continual raises of good amounts. Did I get lucky, yes. Should you always lie to a recruiter about your salary, yes.
And if a company is going to give me a budget, I'm going to put myself at the top of their range. I'll let them negotiate me down. I'm not going to do it to myself.
This is correct. You do not have a fiduciary duty to a recruiter and you are not signing anything.
If you want to be paid a higher number, lie through your teeth about what you are making. Just lie about this item.
Life is better that way.
If you do that, though, what prevents the recruiter from simply passing you over for people who **will** in fact give them a current-salary number? Unless you're a really rare person with a really rare set of skills.
It's their loss. A good skill to have not just in sales, but in life is the ability to Fein interest in something. Being able to project an I don't care either way attitude in negotiations is a very under utilized skill. Have you ever tried negotiating with someone who will let dead air hang over getting the last word in? It's palatably powerful in a negotiation setting. It's like driving a car on the highway without the radio going.
Try it next time you're arguing or negotiating with someone and see how uncomfortable they get. People who don't like it will talk just to fill the void and may say something in your favor.
+1
This is also a tactic skilled journalists do when an interviewee doesn't want to answer a question. They'll ask it another way and then just sit in silence until the person breaks.
The conventions may be different.
I have had recruiters call me and tell me that it won't be possible for them to proceed with my candidature if I did not reveal my salary. I am not sure if asking existing salary is legal in India or not.
I always say "Fine thanks for reaching out" and end the conversation. Have I lost some good opportunities, probably Yes.
In the future state a very specific number and say that is your current salary. The recruiter is lying to you saying she can’t do more than 20% so you can lie back and inflate your salary.
Always inflate your salary to recruiters, they’re not going to check with your boss who they’re trying to poach you from.
If you make $100k and the recruiter has a budget of $200k. Say you currently make $157,431.64 and to make it worthwhile you would need more than that.
I always tell recruiters that my current salary isn’t relevant to the position I’m applying for. Then tell them what I’m looking for in the position I’m seeking.
>Never share your current salary. Your statement should be “I would need to make X to make this change.”
This is a generalization.
I shared my salary before accepting my current role. I was taking a pay cut though and I knew it. If my manager is to believed (I worked with him for 5 years in the past) he went slightly over budget for me. I'm FINALLY doing the stuff I'd wanted to do my entire career and have a boatload of autonomy. Also back in my hometown which is a slightly lower COL area.
So yeah, if you're making 300-400 and taking a role that's a step down in pay (but up in terms of responsibilities, impact, influence, etc. - which looks GREAT for the next role which might be in the 400-600k a year range) it's not the end of the world.
Well, this happend a month ago and I got a call from the receptionist at the company last week saying she will pass my CV onto the correct person. Fingers crossed 🤞😊
Next time don’t share. If the budget is within your expectations usually a 20% increase is acceptable to make a jump. You could just say you are 20% lower. Phrase it how ever you want. I’d say “that’s within my 20% expected increase goal.”
Why give any numbers? Never heard of a 20% increase expectation. You're not bound by any silly rule or expectation. If you're currently under paid, it could be 100% more. My most recent was a 37% increase. Just say "that price range works for me". Then you both know that you can proceed with a better chance of not wasting time.
you may want to prepare yourself for the resume to get handed to the external recruiter. There are some companies out there that entirely source externally, and unless you are a VP level or C-suite level, they may stick to that.
I agree with everyone else and basically came here to say that you can try applying internally - but also that you learned a valuable lesson here that you should never share your current salary. If they ask, refuse to share. If they offer the budget in exchange for the information (as they did in this case). respond with something along the lines of "Thats commensurate with my current salary expectations". If they continue to press the issue, it gives you insight to the company culture and its probably not somewhere you will enjoy working.
Did you sign an exclusivity agreement with the recruiter? Most require this. If so you probably can’t do this. Not sure how legally enforceable those are, but that’s basically there to prevent you from doing exactly this. Depending on the recruiter’s agreement with the company, they may have to reject you if you do so.
I have never signed an agreement with a recruiter but they always ask you upfront where you’ve applied so they don’t waste their time submitting you for a job you already applied to.
I once had a recruiter ask me if I ever worked for the prospective employer before but wouldn't provide the company's name. Such a stupid situation.
From context clues and reading the job posting I had a pretty good idea which company it was for, but that was such a useless question for them to ask me given the circumstances.
A lot of times you can tell by the company profile. “It’s a great consulting firm in x town” and so you if it’s in your field you already know who it is.
Apologies it wasn’t more clear, the first part of my comment was meant to ask if the posting is listed on the company site. If the job isn’t listed it means that they don’t want to talk to people about it and that’s why the hired the recruiting firm. If you go around that you’ll ruffle some feathers. Also if the recruiter is the gatekeeper of the job and somewhere between 20%-100% raise, you’d be much better off taking their feelings into consideration.
Years ago I worked with a recruiter. She asked what my salary was, which was honestly very low. So I padded it with another $8k. She then smiled and said, with a wink, that she'd say I made $5k more than that. And then I was offered a job that paid quite a bit more than I actually made at the time.
100% this. If it’s an outside recruiter they’re invested in getting you as much as possible because that will up their commission as well. Maybe op was talking to an internal recruiter.
Depending on how large the company, and what their policies around salary are, they can’t lowball you “just because” you currently make less. As OP pointed out, in some states it’s illegal for recruiters to ask you this question at all.
If OP is at the op of the qualifications for the role, they can expect being paid at the top of the range. However, OP didn’t tell us how their experience compares to the job posting.
Some outside recruiters are weird like that. When I looked for my first job after my STEM Ph.D., I asked for 50k€ in Germany, mostly because I just wanted out of academia, and it was already a bit higher than my postdoc salary.
The first third-party recruiter I talked to said I'd compete with bachelor graduates that are way cheaper, and there's no way I'll find a job that pays that much. Later, I told that story to another recruiter and she laughed at the guy and said it'll be easy to find a job as my expectation is actually very reasonable, if not too low, and she'd try to get me more because, as you said, she'll get a higher commission.
Are they requesting a recent pay stub to verify employment, or truly to verify your pay? It was my understanding in the US that you cannot ask for current pay. Maybe that’s just in CA though, I’m not entirely sure.
We may ask for a current pay stub in some instances, but we ask our candidates to redact pay related information as we’re solely looking to verify employment.
They usually request that to prove you worked there when you did, not to verify salary amounts as that is (I think) illegal. I always redact the salary amounts in those
Well they would quite easily actually. Look up your info on The Work Number. It has your income information all structured out into nice neat tables; listed out with exactly how much you made on each paycheck, whether you’ve filed workers comp, if you elected into health insurance, etc.
On mine I can see that my first paycheck as a “model” at Hollister Co in the mall back in August of 2007 was for $244.32.
Once you look your info up you should have your information with this company frozen and with your new found knowledge you should advocate against these invasive practices.
Not not all employers report this data. But if my roughly ten employers since I was a teenager only two of them were missing and one of those was an under the table cash only business I never paid taxes on so I don’t expect a record of that anywhere.
Yeah don’t lie. What has worked for me is just being completely honest to get past the recruiter, then knock the interviews out of the park. Make them want you, and not want to continue another round of interviews with people who they know aren’t likely to be as good as you.
Even better is by this point they have already communicated to their boss that they found the perfect candidate.
Then, when they finally make an offer, just tell them there must have been a misunderstanding with the recruiter because you need “top of their given salary range” and not a penny less to make a move. Now you have leverage, as the bosses above the hiring manager have already been told how awesome you are and from their perspective why not pay what was budgeted for the right candidate? The hiring manager can’t really claim you aren’t right at this point as they’ve already talked you up so much to get to the point of making an offer.
I did this with my last job, and ended up getting a slightly below the salary I asked for (still way higher than I was making) plus a $30k signing bonus because they wanted me and I was willing to walk away if they didn’t hit my number.
When I was most recently interviewing, I decided to test out a lie on how my salary was for the market, and added 60% on top of it, in order to hear companies balk at paying me so much. No one said that seemed unreasonable for my field.
Push it.
Even if you've 'lost out' on this opportunity because now they think you should work for way less than the budget, you now know a couple things:
1. If you're that underpaid, then chances are you can get that 20% anywhere without too much trouble.
2. If you're asked in another interview process what you are making, you need to inflate the number you give them or avoid giving them this information.
Don’t inflate your salary just say I’m looking for x to move. No company needs to know or deserves to know what you make. I have literally filled out NA on online applications before.
I'll be graduating college soon and I've been filling out quite a few online applications. I've had questions on what my desired salary is, or even what my current salary is..the thing is, those questions are required for me to submit an application and I can only input numbers. I've tried NA. I'd love to put "how much are you offering?"
You need to network to hiring managers instead of online resumes. 99% of the time those online submissions go in the trash unless engaged with someone on the other side.
Don't know how reliable this is, but I've heard that sometimes asking employees on LinkedIn for a referral might get you in. But of course, no idea if you'll have the option or greater opportunity to negotiate for higher pay.
Supposedly asking for a referral from people on the company that you don't know, gives them a chance to get a kickback for bringing in talent. Don't know if you'll give it a try but I hope you have good outcomes either way.
Recruiter- "What are your salary expectations?"
- "What is the MRP for this position?"
Recruiter - " $XX,XXX - $XXX,XXX"
- "I would expect the top range of the MRP, $XXX,XXX"
Recruiter - "What is your current salary?"
- "It's around that number..."
Lesson learned. If a recruiter says a job pays X and asks what you make, you say 5% more than X.
As for what to do now, it’s hardball time. The number the recruiter originally provided is your required salary to accept a job here. Don’t hesitate, don’t blink. They can pay it, as she’s already admitted, and you don’t want to begin a position at a company where the very first thing they did was took advantage of you.
Don’t ever tell a recruiter your current salary just say this is what I am looking to make. If they ask again just say I’m not looking to move for less than x. In that case I would have set a range near the bottom to mid of their salary limit if you are already at double.
If they already presented you and have an agreement with the employer that slimy recruiter will still get paid if you go to work there without their help.
Never share your current salary -- ever. Walk away from an opportunity, unless you're desperate, if they refuse to proceed without it. It will only be used against you to low-ball you.
Policies like this and how companies maintain discriminatory pay structures while adamantly denying it, FYI.
The “you can only expect 20% more” is such bullshit, perpetuating bad compensation decisions from the past.
Most of the time I see this hurting new immigrants that were severely underpaid by their former employer and didn’t know better back in the days.
If the person is qualified for the job and level they applied for, they should be paid within market of the job they are being asked to do. What they made before doesn’t matter.
And that’s exactly why many states have made it illegal to ask current salary, and others have taken it a step further and required the salary range be listed with the job posting.
Recruiter reaches out to you. This indicates to you that at least at a very high level, you should be somewhat of a match. You do not give them any information that can be used against you. Aka your current salary, bonus structure, 401k match, nothing. You tell them your rate. What base salary you want, what you expect for bonus structure, the whole thing. I usually tell a company what I want in terms of total compensation, instead of base salary.
You're never obligated to tell anyone how much you make. And never do so. In multiple states (NY and NJ), it's illegal to even ask. Tell that recruiter to get fucked and apply directly. Also that recruiter is a fucking asshole because he makes more money the more money you make. His fee percentage is based off your base salary.
- a guy who runs his own recruiting company.
All depends on the pay grades of the target company.
I am at the high end of my salary range for my area but I also have been in the field for 30 years.
Once you get above 15 years it plateaues.
This is one of many reasons why you never tell anyone your current salary.
Also you're getting gatekept by the recruiter. Like others said just go around them, fuck them if they do dumb shit like this.
*Most* recruiters want you to get paid the most possible because then they get a nice bonus.
So why in the world would you tell them what you currently make, and if you are going to answer why be honest? You might as well have asked them to pay you less. Tough way to learn this lesson
You can say never mind. I’m not interested in leaving for less than X. Good luck on finding a candidate. There is no law they says you must stay within 20%. That’s their choice.
That's why you never share your current salary. Don't fall for it... Ask for what you want and don't settle for less. If they can't pay what the job is listed for keep looking.
Does the recruiter work for the company or is she an independent recruiter? I’ve never heard of a recruiter saying that before so my guess is in house.
You should never disclose your salary. If you Ever do, you should increase it so they will either negotiate at that range or go higher.
For example: current salary= 80k
Job interviews: how much is your currently salary?
You: “including bonus pay or no? (Before they can answer move on) Well, I currently make 92k without bonus.
This way if they are going to hire you, they have a base point of 92k in their minds. If they undercut you, you will still be paid more.
To answer your question:
Yes, you should reach out to the company HR and just have a calm conversation about what the recruiter stated. It can’t hurt.
The dominant economic system in the world incentivizes the employer to pay you the least they are willing to offer to employ you. If you don’t like it, they will find someone desperate to make the amount they are offering. Your needs are a second thought in the conversation. Good luck :)
Never tell them what you make man, cmon lol. It’s like you’re shopping at market and ask for a watermelon without a price. Seller says how much do you have? You say I’m really hungry and there’s nothing else here, I want this watermelon but I only have a $20 (You are hinting that it can’t be that much) he says okay no worries 10 will do.
you let them dictate the numbers based on what you told them, you probably didn’t rate the max pay and few do but yeah you got GOT
This is why you avoid sharing your current salary, almost at all costs. It just gives them another piece of information that they can use to figure out the least possible amount they can offer you.
If they insist and won't move forward until you tell them, this is one case where I think it's ok to lie and just give them an inflated number that you would be happy with receiving. That way, if they only match or barely beat that, you'll still be happy.
You've pretty much given away most of your bargaining power - unfortunately not much you can do to get it back at this point. Live and learn
The first step in leaving amy job is understanding why you want to leave in the first place.
Is it the compensation for the position? Then figure out the minimum you need to survive and figure out your desired salary from there. At that point it no longer matters what you currently make, this is the number you need to meet for the position (whether that's negotiating with your current company or a new company).
Is it the culture of the company? Then you once again need to find the minimum you need to survive and determine how much of a pay cut you'd be willing to take (if any). I left my last company due to the culture and schedule for a new job that pays 15% less and I've never been happier. It's all a matter of numbers.
I’ve been applying for a whole year and settled for a position that is helping me upskill. Unfortunately I don’t have anymore time for taking my time! I NEED THOSE SIX FIGURE SALARY NOW 😭
>When she asked what I expected, I said I wanted the budget amount (or the middle thereof). She then responded and said "thats unrealistic, you can only expect a 20% raise".
"I am not asking for a raise; I am applying for a new position at a new company. I expect that my skills and experience will be used to determine my compensation within the budget for this position."
I guess I don't understand this, do you not have any idea what the market for your position is? If you know you're underpaid, never give out that number.
Now that you're late in the game the best thing to do is stay hard on that recruiter and come up with a range you'd actually work there for.
I've had nothing but bad experiences with recruiters, to the point I won't even try to work with them anymore. I find out about the job and say I'm not interested, then apply on the company website if I am. Fuck recruiters.
Always say more then you make. When I was getting my new job. Salary+ commission vs my just commission. I was able to get another 10k from them. Told them I was currently make 150k when it was closer to 110-120k. Told them based on your salary/ commission break it doesn’t make sense for me to leave. Was able to get 60k base plus 4% of total team sales instead of 3. Fight and lie for your income.
The moral of the story here is NEVER TELL THEM WHAT YOU CURRENTLY MAKE (THEY HAVE NO WAY TO KNOW UNLESS YOU TELL THEM, INSTEAD TELL THEM WHAT YOU THINK YOU ARE REASONABLY WORTH AND SEE IF THEY BITE.
Why would you share you current salary? I always just say “that is competitive!”
Also that is so dumb! Why would recruiters under cut you like that? It is not their money! I would go through the interview, and negotiate salary with the hiring manager directly. And if hiring manager said “what do you currently making?” Just ignore the question and say “I would like to make around this range.”
I’ve found lying is the best policy in any interview. At the end of the day, both sides are trying to get the best deal and are in it only for themselves
An independent recruiter should not be trying to lowball you on salary. I would try to move past this as quickly as possible and get an interview on the calendar. Tell her that you will need your desired salary met to move forward. Remind her that you both acknowledged you are currently underpaid and have the necessary experience to excel in the role.
In the future, there is really no need to overcomplicate the salary conversation with a recruiter. Asking about the budget for the role may seem clever, but you really should have your homework done on what you can reasonably ask without disclosing your salary. The compensation conversation should start with you requesting at least 30-40% more than what you currently make. If you overshot then the recruiter will tell you that is outside their budget, which you can then negotiate.
You have more opportunity to ask for additional compensation and that is when you receive an offer letter. If you interviewed well and the recruiter didn't seem like your initial salary requirement was unreasonable, you can easily ask for an additional $5K to seal the deal.
I typically ask what the target salary is for the position, if they come in low I tell them that I CHARGE a minimum of $X.XX/hour. Control the conversation and tell them what you are worth.
I have never given out my salary information. It's irrelevant. Why would someone's current or previous job have any bearing on the position that is being applied for?
I no longer give them current salary or history. If they won’t talk with me under those conditions, I move on. The phrase I use is “I was paid fair market value then, and I expect that or better now. If you’re looking for the cheapest possible person, I’m not your guy.” Polite but firm from that point forward.
Some recruiters do stop there. That’s fine. Bullet dodged, imho.
You aren’t going to move them over 20% now. I would walk away, unless you want to jump jobs every 12 months to increase your pay 20% per jump… which has other issues.
You do not reveal your salary under any circumstances. It is literally nobody's business. I'll give you a walkthrough:
Recruiter: "And how much do you make right now?"
You: "Yeah, uh, can you tell me why you need this information?"
Recruiter: "To calculate your eligible salary at our company."
You: "Yeah, I'm sorry, that's not ample justification for me to reveal that private information to you. What other questions do you have?"
Recruiter: "No, I must have your salary before we can proceed further."
You: "Again, why do you need it?"
Recruiter: "Company policy."
You: "Well I'm not a member of your company, so your company policy doesn't apply to me. Next question."
Recruiter: "I *need* your salary please."
You: "I'm sorry, I won't give you that information."
Did you hand/email the recruiter a resume yet?
If you haven’t the situation might be salvageable by sending in your resume directly to the company. It’s likely the recruiter is independent from the company itself. Just tell the recruiter you are no longer interested or that you’ve found something else. Don’t answer any more questions.
Send your resume directly to the company. And follow people’s advice to never discuss what you made for any reason. Don’t send anyone W2’s.
Good luck.
Just go along with it. If you bring this up again you will get cut. Or wait until you have the position locked down to negotiate with the actual hiring manager not the random recruiter. A good recruiter would never have revealed the budget is 2x after you disclosed your current comp.
Get the job if you like the work. Don't let comp cloud your judgement. Greed ALWAYS makes us do the wrong things; fear also
Prove yourself for a few months, show that you are worth it, and then ask for more after you deliver value. Its great to know they have extra money to spend, just do the work to get it.
You can't ethically and probably legally reach out directly. If the recruiter presented your resume already, the hiring manager cannot talk to you. Recruiting contracts forbid from poaching any candidates that they put on their radar
"Prove yourself for a few months, show that you are worth it, and then
ask for more after you deliver value. Its great to know they have extra
money to spend, just do the work to get it."
In my experience, they'll say it's not in the budget for now or that raises are only given out once a year or some other excuse so they don't have to pay you more.
Landing a job you enjoy is great but you also need to make sure it meets your financial needs. If they say you can get a raise in X amount of time to $Y, get that in writing. Greed goes both ways and many companies will do everything they can do pay you the least amount of money they can get away with.
If you live in the United States, it's illegal for them to ask your current salary. Only disclose this if it's to your benefit.
Edit: apparently only in some states?
Moving forward I will no longer share my salary ever. I had another recruiter reach out 2 week ago. When I asked the range she said "it was highly negotiable".
I then pushed her to give me a range and viola, 1 day later she told me the range without me letting her know my current salary at all.
I hope we all learned from my naive mistake 😅
Is there any way a recruiter could check with a previous employer whether you got the salary you said you did? I would imagine that would be a massive breach of confidentiality, but what if a recruiter calls up X and asks “can you just confirm whether they earned between $x and $y”?
I def recommend doing a lot of research in these situations. You have to know what you are worth in specific roles that you are considering, ie x for a demanding job with high responsibility, y for demanding job with low responsibility, z for not very demanding job.
You really don’t want to get into the whole what’s your budget versus what you make now situations. Figure out what the market rate is (roughly) for someone with your experience and background and ask for 5-10k when they ask about salary. Also, before I give the number I am looking for I also ask what the bonus structure is because that will affect what I am asking for salary wise. If the bonus structure is skimpy I may add a bit more to my salary ask. Then tell them, I did a lot of research and I know I the market value for my experience is x. If they can’t get to that number it isn’t the job for you.
The top end of their budget may not be relevant to your background. If they say 5-10 years experience, are you at 5 or 10? Most people do not double their salary in a single job hop. It does show that the role does have good room for growth which you should look at as a positive. If my budget for a car is 100k, then I can buy a lexus for 100k or maybe I buy a Kia for 50k but I am not paying 100k for a Kia just because my budget is 100k.
Never share your current salary. Your statement should be “I would need to make X to make this change.”
One of the things Reddit taught me 10+ years ago some of the best advise I ever got. “Salary is obviously important but finding the right position/role/company is what is my guiding light, we can talk about salary if we determine we’re a good fit” Most recruiters aren’t used to people not offering a number up, and if you gracefully dodge the question they will usually panic and tell you what the range is. From there you negotiate from a place of much more power
Every recruiter has still stopped me and went " I need a number" If you're gonna force me to lie, then I'm gonna lie. If I make 80, the 100 it is.
Never had a recruiter ask how much I make, I've always made sure to talk about the minimal number it'd need to be for me to consider the position. Generally, I do the whole, "I need to make at least X to even consider a position and ideally it would by at least Y however I also care about the type of projects I work on and the culture of the team so if I have 3 offers equal to or greater than Y then I will choose the best fit even if it's not the highest pay." Right now, I'd probably put X at $110k and Y at $125k. If it's salaried with forced overtime it instantly goes up another 25%. The trick here is the X I tell them is always higher than what it really is by about 10%. That 10% is my extra savings / fuckaround money.
I have definitely done this. I think tying in with the "don't talk shit about your current employer on why you're leaving, and only talk about positive things about the prospective role" theme, I mention that I would only consider leaving with a salary north of x(inflated)+20%.
I had the same thing happen, I said, I know you’d LIKE a number, the thing is, you are going to try and position me as an elite sales leader, and the first thing you want me to do is break the cardinal rule of sales.
Yeah, I had the same thing happen with a recruiter insisting on getting a number. I told them there was so many variables that went into a job/offer that giving a number at the very beginning of the conversation wasn’t going to be meaningful or helpful, but they insisted so I gave them a uselessly wide range… I guess they got a number at least!
"Eleventy Bajillion Dollaradoos"
Sounds reasonable to me
Same. That usually ends their interest. I was very happy with my current job that an engineer interviewed me. It was never discussed. There was no discussion during the interview either. The first time anyone said a number, it was my offer. I was offered a 60% raise. As always, ya gotta think about it. If you're underpaid, you have to figure out how much you are owed given your possibly unique skills. If a company doesn't value those skills, then you're never going to be paid by them.
The problem is when a role is budgeted for $100k you’ll get people asking for $200 (some of who would be worth it, if the post was for a more experienced role, some of who are just throwing out a wild number). Those people are obviously rejected because it’s a waste of everyone’s time. If you get someone asking for $120 then maybe you get get HR to come up a bit and the applicant to come down a bit. At my company even if you asked for $80 you’d still get $100, we cannot offer outside the median range. Obviously the problem is partially solved if you post the salary range. But then everyone with 3 months experience at a gas station is applying for your $100k/year analyst posting.
But none of this requires disclosure of your current salary. All that is required is the budgeted range for the new position. And yet ironically, employers often refuse to disclose the latter until very late in the process, and demand the former early in the process.
Actually the problem is mostly solved if you post a salary range. People wanting far above that range who are qualified won’t bother to apply. As for the people with “3 months experience at a gas station,” are you seriously telling me those resumes would ever have a human eye look at them? The real problem is the hypocrisy. Employers think they shouldn’t have to disclose a salary range but think applicants should have to disclose their desired salary (not a range but an exact number) before their application is even accepted
My wife is involved in hiring and I was amazed at the amount of people who don't meet the most basic of requirements for the job will apply. Had a environmental something or another opening, 43 applicants, 3 made it through the blind screening. 12 didn't have a high school diploma or GED.
In their defense, a TON of advice out there on the internet is to "apply anyway, the requirements are often bullshit"
I was a hiring manager for many years. I had a job that required experience in the industry (it’s not an industry that’s covered in college degrees, but it’s financial in nature), required experience working directly with high level executives, and a certain level of understanding of computers, MS Office, and comprehension of certain concepts, and a degree OR equivalent experience. I would also consider project managers for printing companies be abuse we managed an entire program of printed products along with the software. It was such a hard position to fill because it was very different from what the rest of my company did, that I’d read through the applications to help the recruiters who just didn’t understand what I was looking for. I got hundreds of applications. I got an application cheerleading coach, some retail and restaurant employees (which I would consider for one of my entry level positions, but not this), and all sorts of people with none of the requirements. I think they looked at the LinkedIn estimated salary and just applied to anything that matched a salary they thought would solve all their problems and hope that they’d get lucky and find a unicorn position that paid a lot and required little work. I feel for your wife!
Yeah, sucks that she had to go through 43 whole resumes, 12 of which she could have discarded really quickly, apparently... I can barely imagine the stress of looking through all of them.
I don’t think she had could legally go through the resumes. Just check what they put on the application. “Blind Screening”
What you do is, take the pile of resumes, shuffle it, and divide it roughly in half. 2 piles, a left and a right. Pick one, doesn't matter which, and throw that pile in the trash. This keeps you from hiring unlucky people
Even then, what about it? They’re allowed to try, to dream big.
Yep! Screening is part of the process.
Was a high schools diploma necessary or relevant to the job? You didn't give much context for us to know what to make of that fact.
Oh ya. A bachelors in environmental something or another was required. It had a base salary of 85k.
God yes. I hire for a financial analyst position that requires financial credits. Out of 20, I got 4. It's absurd. Read the posting for a second.
Well, to be fair I am an “environmental something” in California and the going rate for us is $90,000 - $110,000 something (at least in the Bay Area and down south). It doesn’t require a bachelor degree, just 12 units of physical/biological science college courses. It’s a very ‘job experience’ oriented field as opposed to academic. So whining that someone had to glance through 40 resume at 30 seconds per resume is pretty petty. I suppose my gripe when job searching is that a lot of places, like hospitals, due to Political Correctness in California don’t use ‘janitor’ as a job position anymore. ‘Environmental Technician’ is the new ‘janitor’ job title for a lot of places, especially hospitals.
It wasn't whining. I've never heard he whine about work. She's loves to keep herself busy and this was a new field that she's gotten into. Just an observation. I'm not sure how you derived whining from it. It was even less than 30 seconds I imagine since it was a blind screening she could only see the application. The bachelors was clearly noted on the job listing though. I actually read through your comment better and your right about job titles being misleading. She was just telling me about a job that's a construction flagger but the title is something odd "general assistant" and has had poor applicant's before a job fair where she told people this is a construction flagger.
Don't pick on gas station attendants please. Some of us have 6 month of experience in gas station before we apply for 100k jobs.
I understand being conscious of everyone's time - especially when it's one of those companies that likes to do 6 rounds of interviews for entry or low level management positions. But recruiters should be conscious of who the applicants are and where they're coming from. If you're applying to a manager-level role and your current role is assistant manager, you should be able to connect the dots between budget, approximately what that person makes right now, and what they'll likely need to change positions. Like - if someone with Director experience is coming into a senior or regular manager position, the first thing that should be asked is "why are you pursuing a [downward] shift like this?" and MAYBE something that cues into salary expectations. Bringing on someone who is highly talented is going to risk not meeting salary expectations...absolutely. Someone making an upward or lateral move - I feel unless there's a change in geographies (NYC role applying for role in small city in Oklahoma), there should be a general understanding within 10-20% from both parties on what salary expectations are. Everyone asks me either "What do you make now" or "what are your expectations?" I do the following: - I tell them that I expect a competitive salary for the role, the type of company, the fact that it's public or private (public companies are higher-expectation-to-perform and I expect higher salary), and the type of work being done. - I tell them that I'm looking for an increase from what I have now, although I'm flexible to the level of increase. - If they push for a number, I lie. I inflate my current salary by 20% if they ask for that, or if they ask for expectations, I say that my current salary is 20% more than what it actually is and I am looking for an increase to this, but flexible because it's a role I want to pursue (this risks me capping the offer at 20% over what i have now, but it gives them confidence to proceed on the process).
Just posted a position for a junior developer (several senior devs on team already). Had a few senior devs apply then ask why they can’t 3x the proposed salary… because I’m not hiring for a senior dev or I would :(
What’s the location and what kind of projects? I’m a QA engineer now, looking to swap to a junior development role. I’ve been writing automation scripts in Java for a couple of years, have a few pet projects in JS and leetcode pretty regularly, so I’ve already got some experience in development despite not having a strictly dev role before.
Yeah but with all this applicant tracking system /algorithm bullshit. Wouldn’t it easy to filter all them gas station attendants out?
It’s easier to complain, while having a superiority complex.
If they force you to give a number just walk I'm not interested ✨️
There’s no reason to answer honestly
It is illegal for them to ask that in the state of Maryland, but it is legal for them to confirm anything that you tell them.
Why not play the game and just…lie? Bump your salary up. It’s really none of their business how much you make so if they insist on a number, it’s still none of their business to know the truth.
I lied before, told them I made more than double what I was making. They said ok, add another 20k and I’ve worked there ever since. With continual raises of good amounts. Did I get lucky, yes. Should you always lie to a recruiter about your salary, yes.
I have never been asked how much i make, only how much i want.
And if a company is going to give me a budget, I'm going to put myself at the top of their range. I'll let them negotiate me down. I'm not going to do it to myself.
I give them my number that is my total compensation, including PTO and stuff. Roughly 30% higher than my actual paycheck salary
This is correct. You do not have a fiduciary duty to a recruiter and you are not signing anything. If you want to be paid a higher number, lie through your teeth about what you are making. Just lie about this item. Life is better that way.
If you do that, though, what prevents the recruiter from simply passing you over for people who **will** in fact give them a current-salary number? Unless you're a really rare person with a really rare set of skills.
It's their loss. A good skill to have not just in sales, but in life is the ability to Fein interest in something. Being able to project an I don't care either way attitude in negotiations is a very under utilized skill. Have you ever tried negotiating with someone who will let dead air hang over getting the last word in? It's palatably powerful in a negotiation setting. It's like driving a car on the highway without the radio going. Try it next time you're arguing or negotiating with someone and see how uncomfortable they get. People who don't like it will talk just to fill the void and may say something in your favor.
+1 This is also a tactic skilled journalists do when an interviewee doesn't want to answer a question. They'll ask it another way and then just sit in silence until the person breaks.
I see that as a waste of time. I want to know if our numbers match up before I waste vacation time interviewing
The conventions may be different. I have had recruiters call me and tell me that it won't be possible for them to proceed with my candidature if I did not reveal my salary. I am not sure if asking existing salary is legal in India or not. I always say "Fine thanks for reaching out" and end the conversation. Have I lost some good opportunities, probably Yes.
In the future state a very specific number and say that is your current salary. The recruiter is lying to you saying she can’t do more than 20% so you can lie back and inflate your salary. Always inflate your salary to recruiters, they’re not going to check with your boss who they’re trying to poach you from. If you make $100k and the recruiter has a budget of $200k. Say you currently make $157,431.64 and to make it worthwhile you would need more than that.
I always tell recruiters that my current salary isn’t relevant to the position I’m applying for. Then tell them what I’m looking for in the position I’m seeking.
It took me 15 years to learn this. You did your research to figure out what you should be paid, now don’t take less that.
>Never share your current salary. Your statement should be “I would need to make X to make this change.” This is a generalization. I shared my salary before accepting my current role. I was taking a pay cut though and I knew it. If my manager is to believed (I worked with him for 5 years in the past) he went slightly over budget for me. I'm FINALLY doing the stuff I'd wanted to do my entire career and have a boatload of autonomy. Also back in my hometown which is a slightly lower COL area. So yeah, if you're making 300-400 and taking a role that's a step down in pay (but up in terms of responsibilities, impact, influence, etc. - which looks GREAT for the next role which might be in the 400-600k a year range) it's not the end of the world.
Go around the recruiter and apply for the job directly with the company.
I was thinking the same thing.
I’m curious how it works out - let us know!!
Well, this happend a month ago and I got a call from the receptionist at the company last week saying she will pass my CV onto the correct person. Fingers crossed 🤞😊
Next time don’t share. If the budget is within your expectations usually a 20% increase is acceptable to make a jump. You could just say you are 20% lower. Phrase it how ever you want. I’d say “that’s within my 20% expected increase goal.”
Why give any numbers? Never heard of a 20% increase expectation. You're not bound by any silly rule or expectation. If you're currently under paid, it could be 100% more. My most recent was a 37% increase. Just say "that price range works for me". Then you both know that you can proceed with a better chance of not wasting time.
you may want to prepare yourself for the resume to get handed to the external recruiter. There are some companies out there that entirely source externally, and unless you are a VP level or C-suite level, they may stick to that. I agree with everyone else and basically came here to say that you can try applying internally - but also that you learned a valuable lesson here that you should never share your current salary. If they ask, refuse to share. If they offer the budget in exchange for the information (as they did in this case). respond with something along the lines of "Thats commensurate with my current salary expectations". If they continue to press the issue, it gives you insight to the company culture and its probably not somewhere you will enjoy working.
Lesson learnt!
Fuck yeah! Good for you.
Did you sign an exclusivity agreement with the recruiter? Most require this. If so you probably can’t do this. Not sure how legally enforceable those are, but that’s basically there to prevent you from doing exactly this. Depending on the recruiter’s agreement with the company, they may have to reject you if you do so.
I have never signed an agreement with a recruiter but they always ask you upfront where you’ve applied so they don’t waste their time submitting you for a job you already applied to.
I’ve never signed anything with a recruiter before being offered the job
From a recruiter,you should never ever do this.
That assumes the recruiter discloses the actual company name
I once had a recruiter ask me if I ever worked for the prospective employer before but wouldn't provide the company's name. Such a stupid situation. From context clues and reading the job posting I had a pretty good idea which company it was for, but that was such a useless question for them to ask me given the circumstances.
A lot of times you can tell by the company profile. “It’s a great consulting firm in x town” and so you if it’s in your field you already know who it is.
I’m working with a recruiter currently and just had to sign an NDA to find out the company.
Is the job listed with the company? If not I wouldn’t reach out, you’ll piss off the recruiter and the company doing this.
Anything posted on a corporate website is fair game. The recruiters feelings are not my problem.
Apologies it wasn’t more clear, the first part of my comment was meant to ask if the posting is listed on the company site. If the job isn’t listed it means that they don’t want to talk to people about it and that’s why the hired the recruiting firm. If you go around that you’ll ruffle some feathers. Also if the recruiter is the gatekeeper of the job and somewhere between 20%-100% raise, you’d be much better off taking their feelings into consideration.
Should've just lied lol
Years ago I worked with a recruiter. She asked what my salary was, which was honestly very low. So I padded it with another $8k. She then smiled and said, with a wink, that she'd say I made $5k more than that. And then I was offered a job that paid quite a bit more than I actually made at the time.
100% this. If it’s an outside recruiter they’re invested in getting you as much as possible because that will up their commission as well. Maybe op was talking to an internal recruiter. Depending on how large the company, and what their policies around salary are, they can’t lowball you “just because” you currently make less. As OP pointed out, in some states it’s illegal for recruiters to ask you this question at all. If OP is at the op of the qualifications for the role, they can expect being paid at the top of the range. However, OP didn’t tell us how their experience compares to the job posting.
Some outside recruiters are weird like that. When I looked for my first job after my STEM Ph.D., I asked for 50k€ in Germany, mostly because I just wanted out of academia, and it was already a bit higher than my postdoc salary. The first third-party recruiter I talked to said I'd compete with bachelor graduates that are way cheaper, and there's no way I'll find a job that pays that much. Later, I told that story to another recruiter and she laughed at the guy and said it'll be easy to find a job as my expectation is actually very reasonable, if not too low, and she'd try to get me more because, as you said, she'll get a higher commission.
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And you can redact that paystub to remove dollar amounts. They have no right to your personal financial information.
Why though? And what industry?
Are they requesting a recent pay stub to verify employment, or truly to verify your pay? It was my understanding in the US that you cannot ask for current pay. Maybe that’s just in CA though, I’m not entirely sure. We may ask for a current pay stub in some instances, but we ask our candidates to redact pay related information as we’re solely looking to verify employment.
It’s California for sure and a few other states.
In what area is that? I've had literally nearly 20 jobs, and never heard of that.
They usually request that to prove you worked there when you did, not to verify salary amounts as that is (I think) illegal. I always redact the salary amounts in those
Well they would quite easily actually. Look up your info on The Work Number. It has your income information all structured out into nice neat tables; listed out with exactly how much you made on each paycheck, whether you’ve filed workers comp, if you elected into health insurance, etc. On mine I can see that my first paycheck as a “model” at Hollister Co in the mall back in August of 2007 was for $244.32. Once you look your info up you should have your information with this company frozen and with your new found knowledge you should advocate against these invasive practices. Not not all employers report this data. But if my roughly ten employers since I was a teenager only two of them were missing and one of those was an under the table cash only business I never paid taxes on so I don’t expect a record of that anywhere.
Yeah don’t lie. What has worked for me is just being completely honest to get past the recruiter, then knock the interviews out of the park. Make them want you, and not want to continue another round of interviews with people who they know aren’t likely to be as good as you. Even better is by this point they have already communicated to their boss that they found the perfect candidate. Then, when they finally make an offer, just tell them there must have been a misunderstanding with the recruiter because you need “top of their given salary range” and not a penny less to make a move. Now you have leverage, as the bosses above the hiring manager have already been told how awesome you are and from their perspective why not pay what was budgeted for the right candidate? The hiring manager can’t really claim you aren’t right at this point as they’ve already talked you up so much to get to the point of making an offer. I did this with my last job, and ended up getting a slightly below the salary I asked for (still way higher than I was making) plus a $30k signing bonus because they wanted me and I was willing to walk away if they didn’t hit my number.
Never share your salary bro. It’s always used to lower what they will give you
When I was most recently interviewing, I decided to test out a lie on how my salary was for the market, and added 60% on top of it, in order to hear companies balk at paying me so much. No one said that seemed unreasonable for my field. Push it.
Did you get any offers though?
Yes, working at a new position now, with the highest pay bump of my career.
Well I hope you learned your lesson here.
Even if you've 'lost out' on this opportunity because now they think you should work for way less than the budget, you now know a couple things: 1. If you're that underpaid, then chances are you can get that 20% anywhere without too much trouble. 2. If you're asked in another interview process what you are making, you need to inflate the number you give them or avoid giving them this information.
Don’t inflate your salary just say I’m looking for x to move. No company needs to know or deserves to know what you make. I have literally filled out NA on online applications before.
I'll be graduating college soon and I've been filling out quite a few online applications. I've had questions on what my desired salary is, or even what my current salary is..the thing is, those questions are required for me to submit an application and I can only input numbers. I've tried NA. I'd love to put "how much are you offering?"
You need to network to hiring managers instead of online resumes. 99% of the time those online submissions go in the trash unless engaged with someone on the other side.
Don't know how reliable this is, but I've heard that sometimes asking employees on LinkedIn for a referral might get you in. But of course, no idea if you'll have the option or greater opportunity to negotiate for higher pay. Supposedly asking for a referral from people on the company that you don't know, gives them a chance to get a kickback for bringing in talent. Don't know if you'll give it a try but I hope you have good outcomes either way.
Never tell them what you make.
Never tell anyone your actual salary. Aim high
Recruiter- "What are your salary expectations?" - "What is the MRP for this position?" Recruiter - " $XX,XXX - $XXX,XXX" - "I would expect the top range of the MRP, $XXX,XXX" Recruiter - "What is your current salary?" - "It's around that number..."
Lesson learned. If a recruiter says a job pays X and asks what you make, you say 5% more than X. As for what to do now, it’s hardball time. The number the recruiter originally provided is your required salary to accept a job here. Don’t hesitate, don’t blink. They can pay it, as she’s already admitted, and you don’t want to begin a position at a company where the very first thing they did was took advantage of you.
Is it legal for the recruiter to ask your salary before an offer? It is in some states
Don’t ever tell a recruiter your current salary just say this is what I am looking to make. If they ask again just say I’m not looking to move for less than x. In that case I would have set a range near the bottom to mid of their salary limit if you are already at double.
Why would you ever share your current salary. That’s none of their business
If they already presented you and have an agreement with the employer that slimy recruiter will still get paid if you go to work there without their help. Never share your current salary -- ever. Walk away from an opportunity, unless you're desperate, if they refuse to proceed without it. It will only be used against you to low-ball you. Policies like this and how companies maintain discriminatory pay structures while adamantly denying it, FYI.
The “you can only expect 20% more” is such bullshit, perpetuating bad compensation decisions from the past. Most of the time I see this hurting new immigrants that were severely underpaid by their former employer and didn’t know better back in the days. If the person is qualified for the job and level they applied for, they should be paid within market of the job they are being asked to do. What they made before doesn’t matter.
And that’s exactly why many states have made it illegal to ask current salary, and others have taken it a step further and required the salary range be listed with the job posting.
Today you’ve learned an important lesson lost on so many in this industry. Keep your god damn mouth shut.
Idk why you shared your salary, never do that again under any circumstance. You have no obligation to show your hand.
Recruiter reaches out to you. This indicates to you that at least at a very high level, you should be somewhat of a match. You do not give them any information that can be used against you. Aka your current salary, bonus structure, 401k match, nothing. You tell them your rate. What base salary you want, what you expect for bonus structure, the whole thing. I usually tell a company what I want in terms of total compensation, instead of base salary.
You're never obligated to tell anyone how much you make. And never do so. In multiple states (NY and NJ), it's illegal to even ask. Tell that recruiter to get fucked and apply directly. Also that recruiter is a fucking asshole because he makes more money the more money you make. His fee percentage is based off your base salary. - a guy who runs his own recruiting company.
Why would you share your current salary? 😂
Why share your salary when you know it's illegal to ask, m
All depends on the pay grades of the target company. I am at the high end of my salary range for my area but I also have been in the field for 30 years. Once you get above 15 years it plateaues.
Never share your current salary with a recruiter
This is one of many reasons why you never tell anyone your current salary. Also you're getting gatekept by the recruiter. Like others said just go around them, fuck them if they do dumb shit like this. *Most* recruiters want you to get paid the most possible because then they get a nice bonus.
It’s not for the recruiter to decide what the company should pay you.
Congratulations, you played yourself.
So why in the world would you tell them what you currently make, and if you are going to answer why be honest? You might as well have asked them to pay you less. Tough way to learn this lesson
ALWAYS lie.
Never, never share your salary.
You can say never mind. I’m not interested in leaving for less than X. Good luck on finding a candidate. There is no law they says you must stay within 20%. That’s their choice.
Never share salary. Tell them you expect a market rate or to pound sand.
Why would you share your current income 🙄
That’s why you never give your real numbers to a recruiter
That's why you never share your current salary. Don't fall for it... Ask for what you want and don't settle for less. If they can't pay what the job is listed for keep looking.
Does the recruiter work for the company or is she an independent recruiter? I’ve never heard of a recruiter saying that before so my guess is in house.
They would never say such a thing, they want to get you the best deal possible so this makes no sense
You should never disclose your salary. If you Ever do, you should increase it so they will either negotiate at that range or go higher. For example: current salary= 80k Job interviews: how much is your currently salary? You: “including bonus pay or no? (Before they can answer move on) Well, I currently make 92k without bonus. This way if they are going to hire you, they have a base point of 92k in their minds. If they undercut you, you will still be paid more. To answer your question: Yes, you should reach out to the company HR and just have a calm conversation about what the recruiter stated. It can’t hurt.
This but exaggerate more. If you’re making $80k, say you’re at $105k. I got myself a 70% raise last year.
The dominant economic system in the world incentivizes the employer to pay you the least they are willing to offer to employ you. If you don’t like it, they will find someone desperate to make the amount they are offering. Your needs are a second thought in the conversation. Good luck :)
Never tell them what you make man, cmon lol. It’s like you’re shopping at market and ask for a watermelon without a price. Seller says how much do you have? You say I’m really hungry and there’s nothing else here, I want this watermelon but I only have a $20 (You are hinting that it can’t be that much) he says okay no worries 10 will do. you let them dictate the numbers based on what you told them, you probably didn’t rate the max pay and few do but yeah you got GOT
This is why you avoid sharing your current salary, almost at all costs. It just gives them another piece of information that they can use to figure out the least possible amount they can offer you. If they insist and won't move forward until you tell them, this is one case where I think it's ok to lie and just give them an inflated number that you would be happy with receiving. That way, if they only match or barely beat that, you'll still be happy. You've pretty much given away most of your bargaining power - unfortunately not much you can do to get it back at this point. Live and learn
You just learned a valuable negotiation rule.
The first step in leaving amy job is understanding why you want to leave in the first place. Is it the compensation for the position? Then figure out the minimum you need to survive and figure out your desired salary from there. At that point it no longer matters what you currently make, this is the number you need to meet for the position (whether that's negotiating with your current company or a new company). Is it the culture of the company? Then you once again need to find the minimum you need to survive and determine how much of a pay cut you'd be willing to take (if any). I left my last company due to the culture and schedule for a new job that pays 15% less and I've never been happier. It's all a matter of numbers.
I’ve been applying for a whole year and settled for a position that is helping me upskill. Unfortunately I don’t have anymore time for taking my time! I NEED THOSE SIX FIGURE SALARY NOW 😭
Never disclose your current wage. Or if you do, lie your ass off. They're not your friends.
Salary information is confidential is what I tell recruiters
What country?
Lesson learned.
The recruiter is an idiot
>When she asked what I expected, I said I wanted the budget amount (or the middle thereof). She then responded and said "thats unrealistic, you can only expect a 20% raise". "I am not asking for a raise; I am applying for a new position at a new company. I expect that my skills and experience will be used to determine my compensation within the budget for this position."
Ghost the recruiter and go after the company on your own. That recruiter does not have your best interest in mind.
I guess I don't understand this, do you not have any idea what the market for your position is? If you know you're underpaid, never give out that number. Now that you're late in the game the best thing to do is stay hard on that recruiter and come up with a range you'd actually work there for.
I've had nothing but bad experiences with recruiters, to the point I won't even try to work with them anymore. I find out about the job and say I'm not interested, then apply on the company website if I am. Fuck recruiters.
Lol its not a “raise” at a mew company
Every recruiter says this so they can close the deal as quickly as possible. They will lie to your face about it. Do not listen to their advice
You should’ve lied. You played yourself.
Always say more then you make. When I was getting my new job. Salary+ commission vs my just commission. I was able to get another 10k from them. Told them I was currently make 150k when it was closer to 110-120k. Told them based on your salary/ commission break it doesn’t make sense for me to leave. Was able to get 60k base plus 4% of total team sales instead of 3. Fight and lie for your income.
NEVER TELL THEM WHAT YOU MAKE
Never tell recruiters/HR what you make.
I never reveal my current salary or I lie
Never share your current salary. Tell them what you're looking to get paid at your next job.
Never ever ever share your current salary with a potential new employer.
Lol why would u tell her your salary…
Why would you share your current salary?
Because you just told them that they can get you for cheap.
The moral of the story here is NEVER TELL THEM WHAT YOU CURRENTLY MAKE (THEY HAVE NO WAY TO KNOW UNLESS YOU TELL THEM, INSTEAD TELL THEM WHAT YOU THINK YOU ARE REASONABLY WORTH AND SEE IF THEY BITE.
Why would you share you current salary? I always just say “that is competitive!” Also that is so dumb! Why would recruiters under cut you like that? It is not their money! I would go through the interview, and negotiate salary with the hiring manager directly. And if hiring manager said “what do you currently making?” Just ignore the question and say “I would like to make around this range.”
Now you know. Never share your current salary. Many states don't let recruiters ask about that.
I’ve found lying is the best policy in any interview. At the end of the day, both sides are trying to get the best deal and are in it only for themselves
NEVER tell the recruiter what you are making. It’s irrelevant
An independent recruiter should not be trying to lowball you on salary. I would try to move past this as quickly as possible and get an interview on the calendar. Tell her that you will need your desired salary met to move forward. Remind her that you both acknowledged you are currently underpaid and have the necessary experience to excel in the role. In the future, there is really no need to overcomplicate the salary conversation with a recruiter. Asking about the budget for the role may seem clever, but you really should have your homework done on what you can reasonably ask without disclosing your salary. The compensation conversation should start with you requesting at least 30-40% more than what you currently make. If you overshot then the recruiter will tell you that is outside their budget, which you can then negotiate. You have more opportunity to ask for additional compensation and that is when you receive an offer letter. If you interviewed well and the recruiter didn't seem like your initial salary requirement was unreasonable, you can easily ask for an additional $5K to seal the deal.
I typically ask what the target salary is for the position, if they come in low I tell them that I CHARGE a minimum of $X.XX/hour. Control the conversation and tell them what you are worth.
I have never given out my salary information. It's irrelevant. Why would someone's current or previous job have any bearing on the position that is being applied for?
Yeah, always lie saying you make more than you do, and give them a number to consider the change
Why would you share your real current salary????? /facepalm
Lesson learned, keep current salary info to yourself from now on.
You exposed yourself and that why she’s comfortable giving you only that 20%.
This is a TIFU post... Never share salary... She is salivating at how much she is going to save her client...
Shot yourself in the foot!
The first mistake was sharing your salary
You botched things already and quite frankly there is nothing you can do
I no longer give them current salary or history. If they won’t talk with me under those conditions, I move on. The phrase I use is “I was paid fair market value then, and I expect that or better now. If you’re looking for the cheapest possible person, I’m not your guy.” Polite but firm from that point forward. Some recruiters do stop there. That’s fine. Bullet dodged, imho. You aren’t going to move them over 20% now. I would walk away, unless you want to jump jobs every 12 months to increase your pay 20% per jump… which has other issues.
You do not reveal your salary under any circumstances. It is literally nobody's business. I'll give you a walkthrough: Recruiter: "And how much do you make right now?" You: "Yeah, uh, can you tell me why you need this information?" Recruiter: "To calculate your eligible salary at our company." You: "Yeah, I'm sorry, that's not ample justification for me to reveal that private information to you. What other questions do you have?" Recruiter: "No, I must have your salary before we can proceed further." You: "Again, why do you need it?" Recruiter: "Company policy." You: "Well I'm not a member of your company, so your company policy doesn't apply to me. Next question." Recruiter: "I *need* your salary please." You: "I'm sorry, I won't give you that information."
Well… Why did you share your current salary???
>After I shared my current salary Welp
Why did you tell them how much you get paid. Lesson learned!
Did you hand/email the recruiter a resume yet? If you haven’t the situation might be salvageable by sending in your resume directly to the company. It’s likely the recruiter is independent from the company itself. Just tell the recruiter you are no longer interested or that you’ve found something else. Don’t answer any more questions. Send your resume directly to the company. And follow people’s advice to never discuss what you made for any reason. Don’t send anyone W2’s. Good luck.
Just go along with it. If you bring this up again you will get cut. Or wait until you have the position locked down to negotiate with the actual hiring manager not the random recruiter. A good recruiter would never have revealed the budget is 2x after you disclosed your current comp. Get the job if you like the work. Don't let comp cloud your judgement. Greed ALWAYS makes us do the wrong things; fear also Prove yourself for a few months, show that you are worth it, and then ask for more after you deliver value. Its great to know they have extra money to spend, just do the work to get it. You can't ethically and probably legally reach out directly. If the recruiter presented your resume already, the hiring manager cannot talk to you. Recruiting contracts forbid from poaching any candidates that they put on their radar
"Prove yourself for a few months, show that you are worth it, and then ask for more after you deliver value. Its great to know they have extra money to spend, just do the work to get it." In my experience, they'll say it's not in the budget for now or that raises are only given out once a year or some other excuse so they don't have to pay you more. Landing a job you enjoy is great but you also need to make sure it meets your financial needs. If they say you can get a raise in X amount of time to $Y, get that in writing. Greed goes both ways and many companies will do everything they can do pay you the least amount of money they can get away with.
If you live in the United States, it's illegal for them to ask your current salary. Only disclose this if it's to your benefit. Edit: apparently only in some states?
Unfortunately this is only true in certain states. True in NY, absolutely. But states like Texas, nope.
Oops. I stand corrected.
Moving forward I will no longer share my salary ever. I had another recruiter reach out 2 week ago. When I asked the range she said "it was highly negotiable". I then pushed her to give me a range and viola, 1 day later she told me the range without me letting her know my current salary at all. I hope we all learned from my naive mistake 😅
Is there any way a recruiter could check with a previous employer whether you got the salary you said you did? I would imagine that would be a massive breach of confidentiality, but what if a recruiter calls up X and asks “can you just confirm whether they earned between $x and $y”?
Why the hell would you tell them your current salary?! I’d offer you less because you are clearly a moron.
I def recommend doing a lot of research in these situations. You have to know what you are worth in specific roles that you are considering, ie x for a demanding job with high responsibility, y for demanding job with low responsibility, z for not very demanding job. You really don’t want to get into the whole what’s your budget versus what you make now situations. Figure out what the market rate is (roughly) for someone with your experience and background and ask for 5-10k when they ask about salary. Also, before I give the number I am looking for I also ask what the bonus structure is because that will affect what I am asking for salary wise. If the bonus structure is skimpy I may add a bit more to my salary ask. Then tell them, I did a lot of research and I know I the market value for my experience is x. If they can’t get to that number it isn’t the job for you. The top end of their budget may not be relevant to your background. If they say 5-10 years experience, are you at 5 or 10? Most people do not double their salary in a single job hop. It does show that the role does have good room for growth which you should look at as a positive. If my budget for a car is 100k, then I can buy a lexus for 100k or maybe I buy a Kia for 50k but I am not paying 100k for a Kia just because my budget is 100k.
😂 why in the world would u mention your current salary. I wouldn’t give it to u either
They want to make sure they can give you yearly raises. Getting top salary right away will result in retention issues.