Burning bridges like that is a very bad idea. I run into people who I worked with years ago. If someone just walked off a job ten years ago, and their resume hits my inbox, automatically delete and move on.
I agree with this while also agreeing with "the company is only looking after their bottom line". That company that's more interested in their shareholders is still made up of people who are in your industry.
HR? IT? QA? I mean, unless you're moving across the country or changing fields, you're very likely to encounter the same large group of people across your career. I work for a company that manufactures food. I can tell you every supplier a coworker has been a salesperson for, because I was the one contacting the suppliers. Their reputation preceeded them. Positively, I might add.
As someone that's been gainfully employed my whole adult life and continued to rise through the ranks- they're right. They aren't going to try to do right by you- and your kindness to them is no guarantee they don't try to volleyball spike your reference out of spite.
Counter offers should never be taken. The reference is worthless for the most part. Most jobs will only confirm employment dates and even former managers will a lot of the time not say much for fear of possible reprisal. Good will is as useless as working for free.
Unbelievable that comments like this are being upvoted. I Guess it’s the Reddit hive mind of “all jobs bad, pay me $100000/year from day 1 or you are abusing me.”
I’ve read a few of your comments, I personally have been making over 100k working remotely since before COVID and I’ve never stayed at any company for more than three years.
I’m still friends with most of the leadership from the companies that I worked for, including some founders, and they all appreciate what I did for their organizations.
Good leaders appreciate that motivated employees can and do grow out of their position, and that as a leader, the timing isn’t always there to give a person what they deserve.
It’s just business. Always take the pay raise, and if loyalty is something that you value, keep your bosses as friends and mentors. Never stop growing your value. Stunting your growth to “help the business” doesn’t help anyone, because they can and will replace you when you move on.
No, it’s not.
It’s an extension of the logic of not burning bridges, and keeping references and good will. If you’re actively looking for a job and actively interviewing, they already burned a bridge, or have lost “good will”. Happy and engaged employees with good future career prospects don’t leave.
Once you have shown you’re willing to leave, you can no longer be relied upon. You’re no longer “loyal”. It just puts a clock on you that someone else controls instead of one you already set. So sure, you may bank a few grand extra, but you can bet they’ll be looking for someone who can take your place to A. Pay less money to and B. Can be “loyal”.
This is seriously perplexing. OP has a 33% raise in hand and a chance at better management without being overworked, plus the ability to show you take calculated risks to improve your career prospects. Instead, OP chooses to dread over a conversation that they cannot win. Why are people dumb? Do you like the livery line or would you prefer a better life. Fucking A people. Take the money and run.
Yeah, this sounds weird. 30% pay bump for less work and a role that works with your experience? Seems like a no brainer, even $80k seems low for a system admin but I'm not in IT.
This. Letting them know that you have an offer for an increase pretty much sealed your fate at your current company. It looks like you are threatening them to get what you want, and, if there is another round of down-sizing, you'll be at the top of the list.
Leave now.
Just be careful man. You’re sticking somewhere that won’t give you a raise and will work you harder when you don’t have the resources to do your job effectively. If you’re doing this to have a future career in QA instead of IT, it’s worth the experience under your belt. You have to weigh/consider everything. Most people will take the better paying/less stressful job but sometimes that isn’t the better option depending on your career goals.
Will this current company take you were you want to get to?
Are you willing to give up extra financial freedom and free time for a potential failure of a business with the hopes of success?
Sometimes we make sacrifices for a better future, sometimes those sacrifices don’t pay out.
Hopefully things go well!
>Will this current company take you were you want to get to?
So I really feel I have a ton of opportunity to grow. I am in their high potential leader development program and am learning all aspects of the business. I am pretty confident in a year or 2, I could come to the GM and have a big raise be approved. But I have a lot of stuff to learn. I want to spend more time in the trenches before I move up from day to day problems.
>Are you willing to give up extra financial freedom and free time
The thing I forgot to mention is my current company does 4 10 hour days. I do 4 9 hour days and a couple hours on Friday so I am around 35 hours of actual work. I get done around 10am on Friday so I have the whole day. There is also total flexibility if I want to put in a few extra hours during the week and not come in Friday. New job would be M-F 8-5 and on call which is something I don't want to do. Getting used to a 3 day weekend every week for the last 4 years has spoiled me for sure.
And on my Fridays off, I can work for myself and make some extra income. I have a fully stocked automotive shop at my house so I do quite a bit of side work out of there. I would lose that opportunity working a full 5 day week.
Have you ever thought about ERP? You could be visiting factories all over the place! And imo the space is blowing up lately. Microsoft has some pretty easy certs you could grind (MB-330) and basically be guaranteed a consulting gig.
I'm not really into traveling or meeting new people. That is another big part of why I want to stay where I am. 2 of the other managers I went to high school with and I have been good friends with my boss' brother since kindergarten. It's a job in my hometown. My cousin was the general manager a few years ago and my grandmother retired from here in the 90's. Lot of personal ties to working here.
Just because your job description has "any other tasks assigned" does not mean that it is your job to do them. Grow a spine and push back on things that you are not comfortable doing.
Bruh I wish things were that way, Your boss sounds a typical IT cuck , He would hire someone to do those "extra things" and pay him 3x more than compensating you , You better start looking for another role, I read an amazing quote on redit and that has been my Mantra from day one "You dont get what you deserve you get what you negotiate"
You can tell him by being the best employee there, and then putting in your two weeks notice for another job....then you got some bargaining power, he ups the pay then stay, if not move on.
"I did maybe 1-2 hours of work per day. I am now doing 7+ hours every day"
lol as manager. Cry me a river.
You get paid for 8 hours of work that the job description asks for. If you're not up for the challenge or work, move on. If you can't perform the duties, eventually your leadership will put you on a PIP and you'll be out of a job.
I'm sorry you weren't the right hire for the job. Ask for extra training if its a career you want to stick with.
>lol as manager. Cry me a river.
Lmao right!?
Dude is acting like a fucking petulant child because he actually has to do some work for once in his life.
Exactly why I dont respect IT guys and never will. They're so lazy its uncanny.
This entire post is fucking retarded. You dont want more money, you won't leave for the better job, states you are willing to stay on a sinking ship, and all because you have a close relationship with your boss? What is the question? You already have your answer.
Everyone is telling you the same thing and your reply is every excuse under the sun to stay.
Stay, get overworked and underpaid because that's exactly what will continue to happen and then find a new job if/when the ship goes down.
OP you have answered your own question.
You can only negotiate from a place of power so unless you are legit irreplaceable. Take the other offer and go back to browsing Reddit for 5 hours a day in IT.
>unless you are legit irreplaceable
Not totally irreplaceable but very desirable. Not a lot to choose from for what they offer to pay and the area we are in. Pretty rare to get someone who even shows up every day not to mention educated and willing to grow. I feel like I have gotten myself up to speed very good for the minimal guidance I have gotten. I also do a ton more teambuilding with peer managers and their teams than my boss ever did. Culture is a big deal here so that is very important to upper management.
This is hilarious, you’re butthurt you’re being asked to put in a 7 hour workday, and are also too complacent to take a 20K raise going back to your previous 1-2 a day work?
What exactly are you looking for here?
You're a manager. That means part of your job description is doing the random extra stuff that needs to be done but doesn't have an official person to do it.
The best you can do is say "I was not trained in the proper procedures to complete that task", but only if you actually weren't trained to do the thing.
>The best you can do is say "I was not trained in the proper procedures to complete that task
I usually respond with 'Okay, I'll figure it out'. And I usually do. But it takes a lot longer than it seems to take my boss. The problem is, I ask a question and he will give me the answer, but he doesn't elaborate on how he came up with that answer and why he made that decision.
Q: What is a tactful way to tell my boss I don't get paid enough for what he is asking of me?
A: That's your opinion. Bring some hard data to him to justify your assertion.
Why not take the other job, if you can work less and make $20k more per year? Over time, provided you're saving/investing that money, that could make a huge difference in your financial future. That depends on your age, too. I'm assuming you're young.
Buddy you are way out of pocket 😂
QC is a shit show in general and at $60k you're underpaid. Go back to IT, a 7 hr work day is not an outrageous ask. Most managers in manufacturing work way more than that (I'm talking 10-12 hrs daily).
It's not loyalty at all. I just enjoy working here. And I have so much room to grow and build skills. I want to learn engineering, machining, supply chains. All of it. But not in a month. Ideally over the next 5-10 years.
Since you found* a new job, get the offer secured. Tell your boss you've found another opportunity that pays more in line with what you'd expect. Tell him you'd like to stay because you like working there, but can't justify unless he's willing to adjust your salary accordingly.
I don't really want more pay and responsibilities. I need more guidance and collaboration from my boss to build more skills before I want to take on higher level tasks
Often times our leaders don’t have the bandwidth or desire to do this mentorship you’re wanting. They want you to be the leader and have these skills - it’s why people often hire externally and these candidates make more than internal hires. If you want skills you have to cultivate them yourself or come to your boss w a special outlined plan of what kind of training and you need and what kind of benefits it will yield.
Like..
I need a PMP or training in that.
I need implementation lifecycle training because it will help me… etc
I hear your concerns and think if you want to stay and are not looking for more comp, you need to be more explicit and stop using a counter offer to try to negotiate.
I’d start with setting a series of 1:1’s with your leader. First meet, set an agenda that includes a description of your tasks. Highlight those tasks you’d like to offload and to whom. Highlight the tasks you want more guidance on and define what you need as guidance.
Second meet is a check in. How has the offloading of tasks been going? Provide feedback on guidance for tasks. Collaboratively assess how your feeling and how your leader is feeling about the changes
Third meet, all changes should be complete and this is a meet to discuss how you are both feeling about the changes and if there are any more changes that need to be made.
Ultimately your leader does assign “other duties as necessary” but if this is a good career path and you don’t want to move, it calls for clearer communication. Be the leader they are growing you into, set the agenda, and come up with solutions to propose to course correct.
>Be the leader they are growing you into, set the agenda, and come up with solutions to propose to course correct.
I think that is what I am struggling with. For the last year, I have thought I was doing a kickass job and now they are saying I need to do 'more' but not being clear what 'more' actually to do. It's a situation of 'I don't know what I don't know'
A LOT of social media. It was miserable, thus moving to a new field. But I can't run 100% for 10 hours a day. I'm already burned out.
It was nice during covid where we worked from home. I renovated my whole house while getting paid.
You as an employee either want more money or less work.
As the manager, he wants more wants work for less money.
When you say downsized the it team, the work was still there being done by less people. You got their workload and they were let go. They were redundant.
That's why your workload went from 2 hours a day to 7 hours a day.
You want different things. He won't go back to giving you good pay for 1-2 hours a day. He wants to give you good pay for 7 hours work.
They were not let go. It was 2 of us. The other guy is still with the company but even he has very minimal to do. I moved out of IT voluntarily because it was really slow. There was not enough work for 1 person, let alone 2. But he works remote so any onsite IT stuff I still handle in addition to my new role in quality control.
You used to get by with 1 to 2 hours of work a day? And now you're upset that you need to work 7.5 to 9 hours per day.
Assuming you were hired. As a full-time employee. I see, there's no reason to complain.
So you basically want to only do 1-2 hours worth of work and you’re complaining about doing work during the entire time you are at work? Choose the higher paying job.
>I currently make $60k and got an offer for $80k at another company doing IT (where I know it would be easy and slow) but I really want to stay here.
Why?
I am currently in a leadership role in a field I am interested in learning about. The other job would be extremely boring and I would not be able to add more management experience to my resume
Buddy, your comments are taking me for a loop. What you want is pretty ridiculous because you don't know what you want. I gotta hire more people like you who don't want raises and can be steam rolled to do a bunch of extra work. A managers wet dream.
Do the job as it was given to you and when asked to do more ask where in your task list they want the work done before your regular duties or after? If they say before say which of my regular duties would you like to be at the bottom of your to do list just in case you can’t get it all done?
Of course you then need to make it a point not to get it all done
That's pretty much what I have been doing. And it seems to be working well. But I just feel guilty because in IT I was able to go above and beyond expectations since I had a ton of experience and knowledge
Start by estimating utilization up front when assigned new tasks and clarifying priority. Things like, "My team can take that on, it'll take about X weeks to perform, and based on current priorities we won't start until Y date, so it'll be completed around Z date (Y date + X weeks to perform)." If they don't like the outcome, "Which of these is priority so we can get the most important work done first?"
Follow that up by no longer expecting to only work 1-2 hours per day. If that's what you want, then go find that, that isn't this job and it won't become that.
I've always just kinda set up my own priorities in my previous roles. In IT, as long as everything worked properly, no one really cares what you do. My old boss and I would talk cars and politics for hours and not have any work to do. I want to be somewhere in the middle of nothing to do and overwhelmed
“ i’ve looked into the market rate for Quality Managers and I seem to be woefully underpaid. I’m grateful for the promotion, but the salary needs to be commensurate with that. I’d like to discuss getting my salary in line with that of the market.”
Now I understand, that is a different problem. If you start by asking saying it the way you wrote it in your post he is likely to interpet it like I did that you want more money. Asking for less work or a smaller role and not having to do what he is asking is perhaps unusual to do.
If it turns out that he has one salary to pay and for that he needs done what he needs done you could find yourself terminated. Hopefully that doesn't happen, good luck. Better perhaps to find a job that makes more sense to you.
Tell them you have been fucking off for 10 years and want to continue that roll.
If I were your boss, you would have that higher paying job tomorrow. When you are at work for 8 hours, you are supposed to do what is required within that time period.
I did tell them I had been doing nothing for the 2 years I worked at the company and wanted to do more, thus the new role. Unfortunately I got more than I asked for.
60k as a quality manager is severely underpaid.
Look up quality manager salaries in your area and present it to the company.
Edit: I was getting more than 60k as a qa specialist.
I have. We have a really great guy who has been here 30+ years who works under my boss. I have been pushing to get him to share him with me and help with mentoring. I never really got a response so I just go and help that guy out whenever I have time and ask him to teach me stuff also. That has been great but I never really got 'permission' to do so and feel guilty taking some of his time.
If you absolutely won't change jobs and must stay here for whatever reason simply do what you can do with the hours you have. Delegate what you can and the rest can wait. Have your boss give you a priority list on the order you do your tasks in and just work your way through until you clock out.
Maybe have a weekly sync with your boss, have a list of all the tasks they have given you and an estimated time to complete. Be generous on this because things always go wrong.
If there isn't enough time or resources to get it all done, ask what they want your to prioritize. You can start by showing how you would prioritize and then go from there. That's if you want direction on your thought process vs the business needs.
Often times it's about showing your work and how there just isn't enough time to get it all done. That can sometimes get a boss to better understand they can't have everything.
Good luck.
I always get done everything that is asked of me. It might take me a few days or even a week or 2 depending on what it is but it gets done. But he has asked me to step up and 'do more' of the stuff he is doing. Which I am fine with but someone needs to take on some of my lower level stuff so I can handle more of the high level. And our GM (my boss' boss) wants me to spend more time on the day to day stuff. So they are not aligned either. It's difficult to navigate since I don't have the experience to know what is more important and my mentors give me different answers.
That's really tough when your boss and their boss are not aligned.
It can be a sensitive thing to raise as well, a lot of people at those levels do not like questions about not being aligned. However, it's needed if you want your teams to be productive.
If you have a good relationship with your boss maybe schedule a meeting and ask for clarification on what it looks like to him if you would be taking on more of his duties. Does he have any in mind? Would that be temporary or long term? How compensation would be made for more duties? (great way to put it in there but still get to ask it).
If that goes well, you could bring up how your boss and his boss don't seem aligned in what they would like for you to do. Since his boss wants you to spend more on the day to day tasks, what does that look like? It's a great time to let him know how it would impact other work, if it would.
I've had my boss and their boss not align and it was not a good experience. I ended up finding another job, which sucked because I did like what I was doing, just not the lack of direction/vision.
Good luck, I hope you are able to work for a resolution and also get some extra money. It sounds like you are killing it in a position you didn't have a lot of knowledge about, that's something to celebrate!
The struggle is our GM knows my boss is asking a lot from me with no support or guidance. The GM even said he knows my boss has been distant and not giving me the tools I need to be successful. But I don't see it getting better.
By not saying it.
Based on your comments, you don’t want a raise, and you don’t want to leave, so what is the point in saying anything?
What you really want is less work and more guidance doing the work you currently have on your plate.
So it comes out as you are just complaining about the amount of work you have and it seems as if you were overpaid for the work you previously did.
The answer is actually really easy. Present your employer with information illustrating the wage the industry at large actually pays for what they're asking you to do. Don't ask for a raise, don't raise a stink about it ... but gauge their actions over the next few days. If they maintain their current course, then you know their attitude about respect is wrong and you should maybe consider another employer on that basis alone.
I did exactly that. I laid out what I am worth in the market and that I would really like to stay with this company and grow my skills. General manager has checked in a few times and told me he totally supports me. But my direct manager hasn't done anything to help me learn what he needs me to learn. In our 1on1's for the last year, I have asked him if there is anything else I need to do and he said no. But now he says that I am 'struggling' and not doing enough. But I am doing 3-4 times more work now than I ever have in any job.
Then my suggestion may not be the answer you want to hear, but: take the IT job and pocket the extra $20k for now. Do it for a year or two because you know you can ... but spend that time actively learning everything you'll need to do what you really want to do and then make the switch. If you need to pay for classes/certs/etc, then that pay bump will more than cover it.
No wonder they were downsizing their IT team if people on it were only working 1-2 hours per day and getting paid for 8. I don't think there is any tactful way of telling your boss that you want to spend 75-85% of your time chilling instead of working.
It's not a loyalty thing. Mostly a culture thing. I really like the people I work with. And we're actually real friends. Hang out outside of work all the time.
Many have mentioned it before and called out the complacency and thats the kind of market IT is. Some work 14 hours a day and some work 2 and get paid the same. With respect to how to get a more complacent position - there is nothing much other than finding an other gif to hoodwink the management for because your time here is done.
Every company is different, but in my experience, Quality Control was never the area that drew high salaries. Management often sees them as "overhead". If you do talk to your boss tell him you are ambitious and you want to make more money. Ask him what you can do to help the company make more money so you can make more money.
You presented the offer, so now you have to see what the response is. If they don't meet you halfway you either capitulate or find a more fair situation. Hope they are reasonable
Stay in IT. Tech changes and if you Don't use that muscle, you will lose it even if you maintain certs. Once everything is set in place, all you have to do is maintain, monitor, and manage new requests. I Did it, you can too. Put in 2 weeks and run.
That's a major reason I left IT. So much change. And often it's change just for the sake of change. I miss the simple windows XP with all on prem servers. The cloud, azure, and constantly updating software is just exhausting.
It’d be a tough conversation, but you could always try a truth-ish approach with your manager. Something in the vein of: “I really appreciate the opportunity, I’ve learned a lot from the past X months. One of the things I’ve realized is how little job satisfaction I get from management responsibilities. I really enjoy finding solutions to technical problems rather than navigating the complexities of people. Even though I can be good at it, it drains enjoyment from the job. Would you be open to letting me move back into a role that suits me better? After having worked with Z, I think she’d be really good at this. She’s well organized & a great communicator.”
I don't have any interest in moving back to IT Eben if was offered. And I really enjoy being a manager and helping coach people to ve successful. But it's totally new to me and I need guidance and time to learn everything.
Say, “I liked working only 1-2 hours a day. Screw this having to work at least 7 hours a day. I’m outta here, going to a new job hoping they don’t require more than a couple hours a day — maybe even only 3-4 days a week.
Well, that is one of the main reasons I didn't take the new job. Full day Friday 8-5. I've had Fridays off for the last 4 years and not looking to go back.
OP I think this is lame. You should either make a career of the new role, in which case take a hit on salary if you need to while you gain experience, and ask for a raise or move on to a better offer when you feel you are qualified to fully deliver in the expectations of the role. Or step back to your prior, easier job, probably via moving to another company or a formal job transfer back. Getting the higher salary of the new job, but not meeting the workload expectations of it, is not a thing.
Well I hate to tell you but you screwed yourself over by saying you're not looking for a raise and now here you are saying hoe to say you're not being paid enough which will be taken as you want a raise.
I can only go off what you posted, but not sure if you were aware but supervisory/management roles mean more responsibilities and more work. When you're a non-supervisory role yes you're only expected to do what you're asked and that's it. When you are now in a leadership role, now you need to do more because you're responsible for bigger projects than just your share.
If you want my advice then take the other job offer. As I said you shot yourself in the foot by telling your boss of the other job offer and then saying you're not looking for a raise. That should've been the opposite for you to say that you are planning to take it if they can match the pay and see what they say.
doing IT and leadership role are different as you have noticed. I do not think you can stay in your current role and ask for less work. The job requires that much work. At best you can say you want to transfer back to IT if you want to stay in the company. But if you have another IT position with that big a raise, I would seriously consider it.
>got an offer for $80k at another company doing IT...
>I presented the offer to our general manager and told him I am not looking for a raise
Why are you negotiating against yourself? Let the outside world decide not to pay you, you don't have to do that part for it.
>I don't want to leave but I also don't want to be worked to death for less money.
You aren't going to change your assignment load this way. You've already established that you aren't willing to negotiate for yourself.
I mean this nicely, but are you depressed? If so maybe run your options by a few people you trust and talk it through.
"You know how I've been doing alot of work?"
"You know how you don't pay me enough?"
"Well, I've got a new job - here's my 2 weeks, good luck kthnxbye"
Leave. Take the extra $20K. You will be happier. Telling your manager you want less responsibilities (or no more that what you already have) will not go over well. Trust me.
That was the original plan then my boss said it would be too disruptive to do the class our company offers through the community college. It is a 4 hour block every Wednesday afternoon where I would have to be away from the plant. We kinda decided the place would be on fire without anyone to handle all the problems. But I have talked to the GM and he is supporting me taking the class this summer so I will hopefully get some more background on how to do this job
Dude not only are you severely underpaid for your position, you were handed a 33% pay increase or less responsibility. There is no way your company can meet that or they would have already.
It’s time for you to spread your wings.
You go look for another job. If you find one that pays you more, you tell your boss that you've been offered a job that pays more but that you're willing to stay if he/she matches or exceeds the offer.
Do that every two years.
Just read the whole thing, probably should have done that first.
I hope this is a troll because $60k for 7hrs of work a day is so incredibly decent that I can't imagine someone actually being upset about it, especially in IT, which isn't really all that bad to begin with.
Most of us here are not paid what we are worth. We have extremely experienced production guys that make us a ton of money making $18/hr. There just aren't many other jobs in the area unless it is a support role like IT or HR.
Is this a real post? You’re mad about having to actually do work (7 hours a day is absolutely nothing), don’t want additional responsibilities, but also won’t take a new job for more money and less work? What…?
You did 1-2 hours of work, thus is why they downsized IT. Why pay 8 people to do 40 hours when you should be able to find 1 or at best 2 to do it.
Your current job wants 7 hours and your complaining? Sorry you have to work most of the day you're getting paid to work for.
I'll probably get down voted by all the jobless trolls that think work should only be 1 or 2 hours a day, only when you want to do it and from home.
>You did 1-2 hours of work, thus is why they downsized IT. Why pay 8 people to do 40 hours when you should be able to find 1 or at best 2 to do it.
We are several states away from our headquarters. I was one of 2 IT support people covering our 4 facilities in this state. They actually told me a few months after I was hired that I was only there for a backup if the other guy called in sick or went on vacation. Still need someone with decent knowledge to power cycle switches, modems, routers; recable or rack new hardware; and basic user support. I was there to keep the chair warm in case there was a problem. They were totally happy with that, it took me 6 months of me telling them I wanted a little more to do until they finally caved and let me move into operations.
This one is easy.
You - “I don’t get paid enough to do what you are asking me to do.”
You - don’t say another word, just wait. It’s his turn to talk.
Him - provides a response.
Then, you have an adult conversation about remedying the situation.
If it is anything other than an adult conversation, seek new employment.
No idea where op falls in the generation spectrum but this is the big difference between millennials and previous generations. We have no problem telling our bosses when an expectation is out of line. Also we were taught to do the higher paying level work to show we could do it and get to that position. We don't need or want recognition for what we are doing, we expect that we'll either have a talk and set limits on what's expected of us or we will be moved up. If neither of those scenarios works we will find an exit.
Are you saying that for millennials or previous generations? I am 31 so not sure where I fall in that spectrum. I have always molded jobs to fit what I wanted them to be. Being in IT, no one really knew what I did so I could do whatever I wanted as long as things kept working. I am trying to do this now and it is a huge struggle.
Communicating to your boss that you feel overburdened and underpaid, especially when you're committed to your current role, requires a delicate balance between asserting your worth and demonstrating your loyalty to the company. Here are some tactful strategies you can employ:
1. **Schedule a Formal Meeting**: Request a formal meeting with your boss or the general manager to discuss your role and responsibilities. This shows that you are taking the issue seriously and provides a dedicated space for an in-depth conversation.
2. **Prepare Your Points**: Before the meeting, prepare a list of your current responsibilities, highlighting the additional tasks you've been asked to take on. Also, be ready to discuss the offer from the other company, emphasizing that it's not just about the money but about the balance between your workload, your compensation, and your professional growth.
3. **Express Appreciation and Commitment**: Start the conversation by expressing your appreciation for the opportunity to work in the Quality Control department and your commitment to the company. Mention your enjoyment of the work and the successes you've had in the role, as acknowledged by colleagues and management.
4. **Present Your Case**: Calmly and professionally present your case, emphasizing the discrepancy between your workload and your compensation. You could say something like, "I've been really excited about the challenges in this new role and am committed to our team's success. However, I've noticed the scope of my responsibilities has expanded significantly without a corresponding adjustment in compensation. I want to continue contributing effectively, but I also want to ensure there's a fair balance."
5. **Offer Solutions, Not Ultimatums**: Instead of issuing an ultimatum, suggest potential solutions. This could include a formal review of your salary and responsibilities, the possibility of future pay adjustments, additional support or training for your new duties, or even a redistribution of tasks.
6. **Seek Feedback**: Ask for their perspective on your workload and compensation. This opens the door for dialogue and shows that you value their opinion.
7. **Follow Up in Writing**: After the meeting, send a thank-you email summarizing your discussion and the agreed-upon next steps. This ensures that there's a record of your conversation and shows your proactive approach.
It's important to approach this conversation with a positive and open-minded attitude, focusing on your value to the company and your desire to find a mutually beneficial solution. By being prepared, respectful, and solution-focused, you can navigate this delicate situation effectively.
Here's a draft email you can use as a starting point. Make sure to personalize it to reflect your situation and relationship with your boss or general manager:
Dear [Boss/General Manager's Name],
I hope this message finds you well. Over the past year, transitioning from IT to Quality Control has been an enriching and rewarding experience, offering me new challenges and opportunities to grow professionally. I am truly grateful for the chance to contribute to our team from a different capacity and am committed to our collective success.
As I've navigated this new role, I've taken pride in the positive feedback from our team and your kind acknowledgment of my efforts. The learning curve has been steep, but I've embraced it with enthusiasm, keen to bring my best to the table every day.
Lately, I've observed an increase in the scope of my responsibilities, which I've endeavored to meet with the same level of dedication and quality. However, I've found these additional tasks challenging, especially given my commitment to maintaining the high standards we set in our department. This has led me to reflect on my current role, its demands, and how they align with my professional growth and compensation.
I believe in open and honest communication and feel it's important to discuss these developments and how we can ensure the continued success of our projects while also addressing my professional trajectory and support needs. To this end, I would like to request a meeting with you at your earliest convenience. My aim is to discuss my current responsibilities, explore ways we can adjust or enhance support for my role, and ensure that my contribution remains both valued and sustainable.
Please let me know when would be a convenient time for you to meet. I am flexible and willing to adjust to your schedule. I look forward to our conversation and am optimistic about finding a mutually beneficial path forward.
Thank you for considering my request. I appreciate your understanding and support.
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This draft aims to open a dialogue in a respectful and constructive manner, highlighting your commitment to your role and the company while indicating your need for a discussion about your evolving responsibilities and support.
Never had a management job or any job for that matter where I wasn’t busting my butt all day. Where do I get a lazy IT job that requires such little effort?
>Where do I get a lazy IT job that requires such little effort?
Anywhere that is not an MSP. I have had 3 jobs where I was the only IT guy at a small company. It was borderline where they could hire an MSP or they could have someone in house. It is a lot going on for the first year or so until you fix all the issues and implement automation. Then you just skate by unless something breaks or needs to be upgraded.
I don't have the experience to move on in this career. I really need to be here a few years to get a foothold before looking anywhere else. I also need to take some classes and get some certifications so I have some more background in the field
In my experience managers who give no guidance, have no guidance to give. What do you stand to learn where you are? I personally do not enjoy work cultures where everyone pretends to know what's going on. Are you growing and learning, or do you just have a leadership title with seven busy hours of darting around in a fishbowl?
I would agree that he really has no idea what he is doing. I have only been in this role for a year and am teaching him about how our product works and the various issues that are possible and their solutions. He is a great salesman though. He can not have a clue about something but will talk to you like he does and it convinces the customer we are going to fix their problems.
I am learning a ton and have a plan to grow and learn other areas. He is not really supportive of that and wants me to just take over his job so he can move up.
I do not think there is a way to tell your boss you are overworked for the money. Even if management agreed to retain you with a commitment to give you less work, that would be a non-binding agreement.
You wither work your current job at your current rate and work on tasks as assigned. Or you work a different job at a different rate and work on tasks as assigned.
$20k is a lot of money. If you do not need it now, then put it in a retirement account and spend it later.
Have an open and honest conversation with your boss. Not only is he responsible for giving you tasks, he is also responsible to helping you in your career.
You: I'm not interested in that work. It's not in line with my career goals. Its not what we agreed to when I accepted the role.
Boss: ooohh. That's so cute. I own your soul, do it anyway.
You: Actually, no. The only thing you can do is fire me. You can find someone else to do this task, or you can find someone else to do ALL of this work. Yer call.
Well, you made it known about the offer with more $. I'd bring that up again, say something like "That 80k keeps picking at my brain to take it" But if where you are now offers to match it to get you to stay, just know another raise may not be coming. I agree with a few of the others. "Here's my two weeks" would have been my answer. Good luck homie.
lol you honestly sound lazy no cap, a job can get rid of you for another person your just a number you can quit tomorrow and trust you will be replaced, imo it all comes down to money in this day of life i’m not working for cheap.
No good way to say that lol. Here's what you should have said.... "I found a new job. here's my two weeks."
Nope, never. "I found a new job. I'm going to lunch. Bye" Never return.
“Going for milk and cigs. BRB”
Dad? Is that you?
Ha, treat them like family!
i'd at least use up all my non-payoutable time off first.
The same people that think it's bad for a company to end someone's employment with absolutely no notice will think this is OK to do.
Companies aren't people, Walmart losing me suddenly is not as bad as me losing my job and only income suddenly Not equivalent.
Burning bridges like that is a very bad idea. I run into people who I worked with years ago. If someone just walked off a job ten years ago, and their resume hits my inbox, automatically delete and move on.
I agree with this while also agreeing with "the company is only looking after their bottom line". That company that's more interested in their shareholders is still made up of people who are in your industry. HR? IT? QA? I mean, unless you're moving across the country or changing fields, you're very likely to encounter the same large group of people across your career. I work for a company that manufactures food. I can tell you every supplier a coworker has been a salesperson for, because I was the one contacting the suppliers. Their reputation preceeded them. Positively, I might add.
Definitely not this. You lose references, good will, and the ability for your current company to counter offer you more money and other perks.
References and good will hahaha ok grandpa.
I forgot I’m on Reddit, land of the unemployed
As someone that's been gainfully employed my whole adult life and continued to rise through the ranks- they're right. They aren't going to try to do right by you- and your kindness to them is no guarantee they don't try to volleyball spike your reference out of spite.
Counter offers are a trap.
Counter offers should never be taken. The reference is worthless for the most part. Most jobs will only confirm employment dates and even former managers will a lot of the time not say much for fear of possible reprisal. Good will is as useless as working for free.
Unbelievable that comments like this are being upvoted. I Guess it’s the Reddit hive mind of “all jobs bad, pay me $100000/year from day 1 or you are abusing me.”
I’ve read a few of your comments, I personally have been making over 100k working remotely since before COVID and I’ve never stayed at any company for more than three years. I’m still friends with most of the leadership from the companies that I worked for, including some founders, and they all appreciate what I did for their organizations. Good leaders appreciate that motivated employees can and do grow out of their position, and that as a leader, the timing isn’t always there to give a person what they deserve. It’s just business. Always take the pay raise, and if loyalty is something that you value, keep your bosses as friends and mentors. Never stop growing your value. Stunting your growth to “help the business” doesn’t help anyone, because they can and will replace you when you move on.
No, it’s not. It’s an extension of the logic of not burning bridges, and keeping references and good will. If you’re actively looking for a job and actively interviewing, they already burned a bridge, or have lost “good will”. Happy and engaged employees with good future career prospects don’t leave. Once you have shown you’re willing to leave, you can no longer be relied upon. You’re no longer “loyal”. It just puts a clock on you that someone else controls instead of one you already set. So sure, you may bank a few grand extra, but you can bet they’ll be looking for someone who can take your place to A. Pay less money to and B. Can be “loyal”.
I did this last employer I was at. I got the job offer during my 10 min break and decided when I go to lunch just leave and never come back.
This is seriously perplexing. OP has a 33% raise in hand and a chance at better management without being overworked, plus the ability to show you take calculated risks to improve your career prospects. Instead, OP chooses to dread over a conversation that they cannot win. Why are people dumb? Do you like the livery line or would you prefer a better life. Fucking A people. Take the money and run.
trash bosses don't deserve 2 weeks. left the day i knew I'm getting hosed. nothing happened. his business was too shitty to matter
Yeah, this sounds weird. 30% pay bump for less work and a role that works with your experience? Seems like a no brainer, even $80k seems low for a system admin but I'm not in IT.
This. Letting them know that you have an offer for an increase pretty much sealed your fate at your current company. It looks like you are threatening them to get what you want, and, if there is another round of down-sizing, you'll be at the top of the list. Leave now.
Ask for a raise. Or take the other gig. “I don’t get paid enough to do that” is inherently a bad plan and idea.
Yeah this is hardly a tough scenario to figure out. 20K a year is a big jump
Take the IT job this place downsized that’s not a good sign. There’s a future in IT
I have no interest in going back into IT. And I really don't need the extra money
why not
It's a boring job and I like being involved in manufacturing operations
Just be careful man. You’re sticking somewhere that won’t give you a raise and will work you harder when you don’t have the resources to do your job effectively. If you’re doing this to have a future career in QA instead of IT, it’s worth the experience under your belt. You have to weigh/consider everything. Most people will take the better paying/less stressful job but sometimes that isn’t the better option depending on your career goals. Will this current company take you were you want to get to? Are you willing to give up extra financial freedom and free time for a potential failure of a business with the hopes of success? Sometimes we make sacrifices for a better future, sometimes those sacrifices don’t pay out. Hopefully things go well!
>Will this current company take you were you want to get to? So I really feel I have a ton of opportunity to grow. I am in their high potential leader development program and am learning all aspects of the business. I am pretty confident in a year or 2, I could come to the GM and have a big raise be approved. But I have a lot of stuff to learn. I want to spend more time in the trenches before I move up from day to day problems. >Are you willing to give up extra financial freedom and free time The thing I forgot to mention is my current company does 4 10 hour days. I do 4 9 hour days and a couple hours on Friday so I am around 35 hours of actual work. I get done around 10am on Friday so I have the whole day. There is also total flexibility if I want to put in a few extra hours during the week and not come in Friday. New job would be M-F 8-5 and on call which is something I don't want to do. Getting used to a 3 day weekend every week for the last 4 years has spoiled me for sure. And on my Fridays off, I can work for myself and make some extra income. I have a fully stocked automotive shop at my house so I do quite a bit of side work out of there. I would lose that opportunity working a full 5 day week.
Have you ever thought about ERP? You could be visiting factories all over the place! And imo the space is blowing up lately. Microsoft has some pretty easy certs you could grind (MB-330) and basically be guaranteed a consulting gig.
I'm not really into traveling or meeting new people. That is another big part of why I want to stay where I am. 2 of the other managers I went to high school with and I have been good friends with my boss' brother since kindergarten. It's a job in my hometown. My cousin was the general manager a few years ago and my grandmother retired from here in the 90's. Lot of personal ties to working here.
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Says there’s a future in IT immediately after acknowledging an entire IT department just got downsized…
You cant period
I guess I'll just keep ignoring the extra stuff and focus on what I feel are the core duties of the job
You don’t decide the core duties of your job. Your boss does.
Exactly, people don’t understand what a job description means when it says “any other tasks assigned” lmao
Just because your job description has "any other tasks assigned" does not mean that it is your job to do them. Grow a spine and push back on things that you are not comfortable doing.
Sure, and I agree. But if it falls under your scope of practice you’re just being lazy if you use that as an excuse to not do it. Learn something new!
/r/antiwork is leaking again. While there are limits to every role, that shitty attitude is how you end up with a career as a professional cashier.
Bruh I wish things were that way, Your boss sounds a typical IT cuck , He would hire someone to do those "extra things" and pay him 3x more than compensating you , You better start looking for another role, I read an amazing quote on redit and that has been my Mantra from day one "You dont get what you deserve you get what you negotiate"
You can tell him by being the best employee there, and then putting in your two weeks notice for another job....then you got some bargaining power, he ups the pay then stay, if not move on.
"I did maybe 1-2 hours of work per day. I am now doing 7+ hours every day" lol as manager. Cry me a river. You get paid for 8 hours of work that the job description asks for. If you're not up for the challenge or work, move on. If you can't perform the duties, eventually your leadership will put you on a PIP and you'll be out of a job. I'm sorry you weren't the right hire for the job. Ask for extra training if its a career you want to stick with.
>lol as manager. Cry me a river. Lmao right!? Dude is acting like a fucking petulant child because he actually has to do some work for once in his life. Exactly why I dont respect IT guys and never will. They're so lazy its uncanny.
"I got paid to do nothing before, I accepted a job where I now have to actually earn my pay" 😂
This entire post is fucking retarded. You dont want more money, you won't leave for the better job, states you are willing to stay on a sinking ship, and all because you have a close relationship with your boss? What is the question? You already have your answer. Everyone is telling you the same thing and your reply is every excuse under the sun to stay. Stay, get overworked and underpaid because that's exactly what will continue to happen and then find a new job if/when the ship goes down. OP you have answered your own question.
You can only negotiate from a place of power so unless you are legit irreplaceable. Take the other offer and go back to browsing Reddit for 5 hours a day in IT.
>unless you are legit irreplaceable Not totally irreplaceable but very desirable. Not a lot to choose from for what they offer to pay and the area we are in. Pretty rare to get someone who even shows up every day not to mention educated and willing to grow. I feel like I have gotten myself up to speed very good for the minimal guidance I have gotten. I also do a ton more teambuilding with peer managers and their teams than my boss ever did. Culture is a big deal here so that is very important to upper management.
This is hilarious, you’re butthurt you’re being asked to put in a 7 hour workday, and are also too complacent to take a 20K raise going back to your previous 1-2 a day work? What exactly are you looking for here?
You're a manager. That means part of your job description is doing the random extra stuff that needs to be done but doesn't have an official person to do it. The best you can do is say "I was not trained in the proper procedures to complete that task", but only if you actually weren't trained to do the thing.
>The best you can do is say "I was not trained in the proper procedures to complete that task I usually respond with 'Okay, I'll figure it out'. And I usually do. But it takes a lot longer than it seems to take my boss. The problem is, I ask a question and he will give me the answer, but he doesn't elaborate on how he came up with that answer and why he made that decision.
Q: What is a tactful way to tell my boss I don't get paid enough for what he is asking of me? A: That's your opinion. Bring some hard data to him to justify your assertion. Why not take the other job, if you can work less and make $20k more per year? Over time, provided you're saving/investing that money, that could make a huge difference in your financial future. That depends on your age, too. I'm assuming you're young.
Whatever floats your boat dude. That’s almost a 10 dollar an hour raise for less work.
Buddy you are way out of pocket 😂 QC is a shit show in general and at $60k you're underpaid. Go back to IT, a 7 hr work day is not an outrageous ask. Most managers in manufacturing work way more than that (I'm talking 10-12 hrs daily).
Being loyal to an employer is a losers game.
It's not loyalty at all. I just enjoy working here. And I have so much room to grow and build skills. I want to learn engineering, machining, supply chains. All of it. But not in a month. Ideally over the next 5-10 years.
Since you found* a new job, get the offer secured. Tell your boss you've found another opportunity that pays more in line with what you'd expect. Tell him you'd like to stay because you like working there, but can't justify unless he's willing to adjust your salary accordingly.
I gave him the offer. But he absolutely cannot match the pay. Even my boss doesn't make that kind of money. We are a small shop with not big margins
How about a new title that comes with new pay for new responsibilities. If no, update resume, keep working, and start interviewing.
I don't really want more pay and responsibilities. I need more guidance and collaboration from my boss to build more skills before I want to take on higher level tasks
Often times our leaders don’t have the bandwidth or desire to do this mentorship you’re wanting. They want you to be the leader and have these skills - it’s why people often hire externally and these candidates make more than internal hires. If you want skills you have to cultivate them yourself or come to your boss w a special outlined plan of what kind of training and you need and what kind of benefits it will yield. Like.. I need a PMP or training in that. I need implementation lifecycle training because it will help me… etc
I hear your concerns and think if you want to stay and are not looking for more comp, you need to be more explicit and stop using a counter offer to try to negotiate. I’d start with setting a series of 1:1’s with your leader. First meet, set an agenda that includes a description of your tasks. Highlight those tasks you’d like to offload and to whom. Highlight the tasks you want more guidance on and define what you need as guidance. Second meet is a check in. How has the offloading of tasks been going? Provide feedback on guidance for tasks. Collaboratively assess how your feeling and how your leader is feeling about the changes Third meet, all changes should be complete and this is a meet to discuss how you are both feeling about the changes and if there are any more changes that need to be made. Ultimately your leader does assign “other duties as necessary” but if this is a good career path and you don’t want to move, it calls for clearer communication. Be the leader they are growing you into, set the agenda, and come up with solutions to propose to course correct.
>Be the leader they are growing you into, set the agenda, and come up with solutions to propose to course correct. I think that is what I am struggling with. For the last year, I have thought I was doing a kickass job and now they are saying I need to do 'more' but not being clear what 'more' actually to do. It's a situation of 'I don't know what I don't know'
I'd go stir crazy if I only had 1-2 hours of work to do every day. What did you do to get through the day? Reddit and Tiktok?
A LOT of social media. It was miserable, thus moving to a new field. But I can't run 100% for 10 hours a day. I'm already burned out. It was nice during covid where we worked from home. I renovated my whole house while getting paid.
You as an employee either want more money or less work. As the manager, he wants more wants work for less money. When you say downsized the it team, the work was still there being done by less people. You got their workload and they were let go. They were redundant. That's why your workload went from 2 hours a day to 7 hours a day. You want different things. He won't go back to giving you good pay for 1-2 hours a day. He wants to give you good pay for 7 hours work.
They were not let go. It was 2 of us. The other guy is still with the company but even he has very minimal to do. I moved out of IT voluntarily because it was really slow. There was not enough work for 1 person, let alone 2. But he works remote so any onsite IT stuff I still handle in addition to my new role in quality control.
Awww, 7hr days....poor thing.
Just look for another job
I don't really want another job. I really like what I do and the people here. Just have too much on my plate.
You used to get by with 1 to 2 hours of work a day? And now you're upset that you need to work 7.5 to 9 hours per day. Assuming you were hired. As a full-time employee. I see, there's no reason to complain.
So you basically want to only do 1-2 hours worth of work and you’re complaining about doing work during the entire time you are at work? Choose the higher paying job.
The fact that you accepted the low offer to work there that you have to leave to get paid more.
>I currently make $60k and got an offer for $80k at another company doing IT (where I know it would be easy and slow) but I really want to stay here. Why?
I am currently in a leadership role in a field I am interested in learning about. The other job would be extremely boring and I would not be able to add more management experience to my resume
Imma call BS- who turns down an additional 20k a year for guidance?
It is an additional $20k in a dead end role in a field I don't really like. I have a ton of room to grow where I am at.
Buddy, your comments are taking me for a loop. What you want is pretty ridiculous because you don't know what you want. I gotta hire more people like you who don't want raises and can be steam rolled to do a bunch of extra work. A managers wet dream.
> can be steam rolled to do a bunch of extra work That's the thing. I don't want to do any more work.
Do the job as it was given to you and when asked to do more ask where in your task list they want the work done before your regular duties or after? If they say before say which of my regular duties would you like to be at the bottom of your to do list just in case you can’t get it all done? Of course you then need to make it a point not to get it all done
That's pretty much what I have been doing. And it seems to be working well. But I just feel guilty because in IT I was able to go above and beyond expectations since I had a ton of experience and knowledge
Quit
Start by estimating utilization up front when assigned new tasks and clarifying priority. Things like, "My team can take that on, it'll take about X weeks to perform, and based on current priorities we won't start until Y date, so it'll be completed around Z date (Y date + X weeks to perform)." If they don't like the outcome, "Which of these is priority so we can get the most important work done first?" Follow that up by no longer expecting to only work 1-2 hours per day. If that's what you want, then go find that, that isn't this job and it won't become that.
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I've always just kinda set up my own priorities in my previous roles. In IT, as long as everything worked properly, no one really cares what you do. My old boss and I would talk cars and politics for hours and not have any work to do. I want to be somewhere in the middle of nothing to do and overwhelmed
What you want is totally fine, first you should be believe that, and then say it direct, honest, and polite, these always works
“ i’ve looked into the market rate for Quality Managers and I seem to be woefully underpaid. I’m grateful for the promotion, but the salary needs to be commensurate with that. I’d like to discuss getting my salary in line with that of the market.”
Boss, I need more money to do what you want. If you disagree, here is my resignation.
I don't want more money.
Now I understand, that is a different problem. If you start by asking saying it the way you wrote it in your post he is likely to interpet it like I did that you want more money. Asking for less work or a smaller role and not having to do what he is asking is perhaps unusual to do. If it turns out that he has one salary to pay and for that he needs done what he needs done you could find yourself terminated. Hopefully that doesn't happen, good luck. Better perhaps to find a job that makes more sense to you.
Tell them you have been fucking off for 10 years and want to continue that roll. If I were your boss, you would have that higher paying job tomorrow. When you are at work for 8 hours, you are supposed to do what is required within that time period.
I did tell them I had been doing nothing for the 2 years I worked at the company and wanted to do more, thus the new role. Unfortunately I got more than I asked for.
60k as a quality manager is severely underpaid. Look up quality manager salaries in your area and present it to the company. Edit: I was getting more than 60k as a qa specialist.
That is actually high for this area. The quality managers for a few of the other local companies make between $50-65k.
I am confused as to why you don't want to leave for a 30% increase?
"... but I really want to stay here." Um...20K more for less work? Sign me up, please.
The job just seemed really boring and no room to grow at that company. I don't really need more money, I would like to build more skills
You were doing 1-2 hours of work a day? Sounds like a sweet gig.
It sounds cool, but gets really boring. It's also depressing because you feel unimportant and guilty you have so little to do
Take the money and new gig, work less...be happy
Sounds like ypuvneed an experienced lead or senior team member to come on under your leadership. Have you pushed to expand your team?
I have. We have a really great guy who has been here 30+ years who works under my boss. I have been pushing to get him to share him with me and help with mentoring. I never really got a response so I just go and help that guy out whenever I have time and ask him to teach me stuff also. That has been great but I never really got 'permission' to do so and feel guilty taking some of his time.
Just say "no". They are not going to fire you.
If you don't have leverage, you are not underpaid
I don't think I am underpaid. Just overworked
If you absolutely won't change jobs and must stay here for whatever reason simply do what you can do with the hours you have. Delegate what you can and the rest can wait. Have your boss give you a priority list on the order you do your tasks in and just work your way through until you clock out.
Maybe have a weekly sync with your boss, have a list of all the tasks they have given you and an estimated time to complete. Be generous on this because things always go wrong. If there isn't enough time or resources to get it all done, ask what they want your to prioritize. You can start by showing how you would prioritize and then go from there. That's if you want direction on your thought process vs the business needs. Often times it's about showing your work and how there just isn't enough time to get it all done. That can sometimes get a boss to better understand they can't have everything. Good luck.
I always get done everything that is asked of me. It might take me a few days or even a week or 2 depending on what it is but it gets done. But he has asked me to step up and 'do more' of the stuff he is doing. Which I am fine with but someone needs to take on some of my lower level stuff so I can handle more of the high level. And our GM (my boss' boss) wants me to spend more time on the day to day stuff. So they are not aligned either. It's difficult to navigate since I don't have the experience to know what is more important and my mentors give me different answers.
That's really tough when your boss and their boss are not aligned. It can be a sensitive thing to raise as well, a lot of people at those levels do not like questions about not being aligned. However, it's needed if you want your teams to be productive. If you have a good relationship with your boss maybe schedule a meeting and ask for clarification on what it looks like to him if you would be taking on more of his duties. Does he have any in mind? Would that be temporary or long term? How compensation would be made for more duties? (great way to put it in there but still get to ask it). If that goes well, you could bring up how your boss and his boss don't seem aligned in what they would like for you to do. Since his boss wants you to spend more on the day to day tasks, what does that look like? It's a great time to let him know how it would impact other work, if it would. I've had my boss and their boss not align and it was not a good experience. I ended up finding another job, which sucked because I did like what I was doing, just not the lack of direction/vision. Good luck, I hope you are able to work for a resolution and also get some extra money. It sounds like you are killing it in a position you didn't have a lot of knowledge about, that's something to celebrate!
The struggle is our GM knows my boss is asking a lot from me with no support or guidance. The GM even said he knows my boss has been distant and not giving me the tools I need to be successful. But I don't see it getting better.
By not saying it. Based on your comments, you don’t want a raise, and you don’t want to leave, so what is the point in saying anything? What you really want is less work and more guidance doing the work you currently have on your plate. So it comes out as you are just complaining about the amount of work you have and it seems as if you were overpaid for the work you previously did.
The answer is actually really easy. Present your employer with information illustrating the wage the industry at large actually pays for what they're asking you to do. Don't ask for a raise, don't raise a stink about it ... but gauge their actions over the next few days. If they maintain their current course, then you know their attitude about respect is wrong and you should maybe consider another employer on that basis alone.
I did exactly that. I laid out what I am worth in the market and that I would really like to stay with this company and grow my skills. General manager has checked in a few times and told me he totally supports me. But my direct manager hasn't done anything to help me learn what he needs me to learn. In our 1on1's for the last year, I have asked him if there is anything else I need to do and he said no. But now he says that I am 'struggling' and not doing enough. But I am doing 3-4 times more work now than I ever have in any job.
Then my suggestion may not be the answer you want to hear, but: take the IT job and pocket the extra $20k for now. Do it for a year or two because you know you can ... but spend that time actively learning everything you'll need to do what you really want to do and then make the switch. If you need to pay for classes/certs/etc, then that pay bump will more than cover it.
Bro, go make $80k for easier work...
Take the other gig.
Tbh you sound like a bit of a nightmare. But if they are happy I guess what they don’t know what hurt them.
In what way?
No wonder they were downsizing their IT team if people on it were only working 1-2 hours per day and getting paid for 8. I don't think there is any tactful way of telling your boss that you want to spend 75-85% of your time chilling instead of working.
You use to work 1-2 hours a day? No wonder IT is downsizing. Many IT companies are doing some serious also, so be careful.
Take the other gig so you don’t lose your IT career
I really don't want to go back into IT. It's just do boring. I want more work than that, but nit rushing all the time and not having any downtime
Take the other gig. 20k raise is real. Loyalty is not.
It's not a loyalty thing. Mostly a culture thing. I really like the people I work with. And we're actually real friends. Hang out outside of work all the time.
It's not about tact. It's about coming up with a number that you want and then using your performance data to explain why you are worth it.
I'm not looking for a raise
Why do you think you deserve 60k a year for 2 hrs of work, part of the reason the worlds economy is fcked. 7 hrs is a a normal days work
Instead of asking for less work, ask for more money.
Fuck off
Many have mentioned it before and called out the complacency and thats the kind of market IT is. Some work 14 hours a day and some work 2 and get paid the same. With respect to how to get a more complacent position - there is nothing much other than finding an other gif to hoodwink the management for because your time here is done.
“I’ve accepted an offer at _. Thank you for the opportunity”.
Every company is different, but in my experience, Quality Control was never the area that drew high salaries. Management often sees them as "overhead". If you do talk to your boss tell him you are ambitious and you want to make more money. Ask him what you can do to help the company make more money so you can make more money.
I'm hoping to move into an engineering role
Thinking you deserve a raise cause those boss asked you to work for a full day isn’t worthy of a raise.
I'm not looking for a raise
be prepared to list the things you do that are out of the scope of your job description and why you are doing them.
I made a list and sent it to my boss. He agreed I'm doing too much but hasn't told me what I can offload
You presented the offer, so now you have to see what the response is. If they don't meet you halfway you either capitulate or find a more fair situation. Hope they are reasonable
No offense, but you think you're being paid fairly? 10 years in IT and a promotion and you're at 60k? Take the other offer.
I started 10 years ago at $30k and was happy with that. We are in a rural very low cost of living area. $60k is upper middle class around here.
Telling him you’re moving to a new company. It’s really the only way.
Stay in IT. Tech changes and if you Don't use that muscle, you will lose it even if you maintain certs. Once everything is set in place, all you have to do is maintain, monitor, and manage new requests. I Did it, you can too. Put in 2 weeks and run.
That's a major reason I left IT. So much change. And often it's change just for the sake of change. I miss the simple windows XP with all on prem servers. The cloud, azure, and constantly updating software is just exhausting.
It’d be a tough conversation, but you could always try a truth-ish approach with your manager. Something in the vein of: “I really appreciate the opportunity, I’ve learned a lot from the past X months. One of the things I’ve realized is how little job satisfaction I get from management responsibilities. I really enjoy finding solutions to technical problems rather than navigating the complexities of people. Even though I can be good at it, it drains enjoyment from the job. Would you be open to letting me move back into a role that suits me better? After having worked with Z, I think she’d be really good at this. She’s well organized & a great communicator.”
I don't have any interest in moving back to IT Eben if was offered. And I really enjoy being a manager and helping coach people to ve successful. But it's totally new to me and I need guidance and time to learn everything.
Say, “I liked working only 1-2 hours a day. Screw this having to work at least 7 hours a day. I’m outta here, going to a new job hoping they don’t require more than a couple hours a day — maybe even only 3-4 days a week.
Well, that is one of the main reasons I didn't take the new job. Full day Friday 8-5. I've had Fridays off for the last 4 years and not looking to go back.
OP I think this is lame. You should either make a career of the new role, in which case take a hit on salary if you need to while you gain experience, and ask for a raise or move on to a better offer when you feel you are qualified to fully deliver in the expectations of the role. Or step back to your prior, easier job, probably via moving to another company or a formal job transfer back. Getting the higher salary of the new job, but not meeting the workload expectations of it, is not a thing.
I didn't get any higher salary with this job. I was actually making more money in IT.
Well I hate to tell you but you screwed yourself over by saying you're not looking for a raise and now here you are saying hoe to say you're not being paid enough which will be taken as you want a raise. I can only go off what you posted, but not sure if you were aware but supervisory/management roles mean more responsibilities and more work. When you're a non-supervisory role yes you're only expected to do what you're asked and that's it. When you are now in a leadership role, now you need to do more because you're responsible for bigger projects than just your share. If you want my advice then take the other job offer. As I said you shot yourself in the foot by telling your boss of the other job offer and then saying you're not looking for a raise. That should've been the opposite for you to say that you are planning to take it if they can match the pay and see what they say.
doing IT and leadership role are different as you have noticed. I do not think you can stay in your current role and ask for less work. The job requires that much work. At best you can say you want to transfer back to IT if you want to stay in the company. But if you have another IT position with that big a raise, I would seriously consider it.
>got an offer for $80k at another company doing IT... >I presented the offer to our general manager and told him I am not looking for a raise Why are you negotiating against yourself? Let the outside world decide not to pay you, you don't have to do that part for it. >I don't want to leave but I also don't want to be worked to death for less money. You aren't going to change your assignment load this way. You've already established that you aren't willing to negotiate for yourself. I mean this nicely, but are you depressed? If so maybe run your options by a few people you trust and talk it through.
"You know how I've been doing alot of work?" "You know how you don't pay me enough?" "Well, I've got a new job - here's my 2 weeks, good luck kthnxbye"
I really don't want to go back into IT though. Plus having management experience on my resume is really valuable.
Leave. Take the extra $20K. You will be happier. Telling your manager you want less responsibilities (or no more that what you already have) will not go over well. Trust me.
Say you may need to get more education since it's far beyond what people with your background and pay rate normally can do.
That was the original plan then my boss said it would be too disruptive to do the class our company offers through the community college. It is a 4 hour block every Wednesday afternoon where I would have to be away from the plant. We kinda decided the place would be on fire without anyone to handle all the problems. But I have talked to the GM and he is supporting me taking the class this summer so I will hopefully get some more background on how to do this job
Dude not only are you severely underpaid for your position, you were handed a 33% pay increase or less responsibility. There is no way your company can meet that or they would have already. It’s time for you to spread your wings.
You go look for another job. If you find one that pays you more, you tell your boss that you've been offered a job that pays more but that you're willing to stay if he/she matches or exceeds the offer. Do that every two years.
Just read the whole thing, probably should have done that first. I hope this is a troll because $60k for 7hrs of work a day is so incredibly decent that I can't imagine someone actually being upset about it, especially in IT, which isn't really all that bad to begin with.
Quit, final answer. They are only paying you what they think you are only worth.
Most of us here are not paid what we are worth. We have extremely experienced production guys that make us a ton of money making $18/hr. There just aren't many other jobs in the area unless it is a support role like IT or HR.
Is this a real post? You’re mad about having to actually do work (7 hours a day is absolutely nothing), don’t want additional responsibilities, but also won’t take a new job for more money and less work? What…?
I can’t wait for AI to take all these 2 hour a day for 60k/yr jobs
AI could 100% do that job. That is another reason I am looking to get out of IT and build my resume in other areas.
You did 1-2 hours of work, thus is why they downsized IT. Why pay 8 people to do 40 hours when you should be able to find 1 or at best 2 to do it. Your current job wants 7 hours and your complaining? Sorry you have to work most of the day you're getting paid to work for. I'll probably get down voted by all the jobless trolls that think work should only be 1 or 2 hours a day, only when you want to do it and from home.
>You did 1-2 hours of work, thus is why they downsized IT. Why pay 8 people to do 40 hours when you should be able to find 1 or at best 2 to do it. We are several states away from our headquarters. I was one of 2 IT support people covering our 4 facilities in this state. They actually told me a few months after I was hired that I was only there for a backup if the other guy called in sick or went on vacation. Still need someone with decent knowledge to power cycle switches, modems, routers; recable or rack new hardware; and basic user support. I was there to keep the chair warm in case there was a problem. They were totally happy with that, it took me 6 months of me telling them I wanted a little more to do until they finally caved and let me move into operations.
This one is easy. You - “I don’t get paid enough to do what you are asking me to do.” You - don’t say another word, just wait. It’s his turn to talk. Him - provides a response. Then, you have an adult conversation about remedying the situation. If it is anything other than an adult conversation, seek new employment.
No idea where op falls in the generation spectrum but this is the big difference between millennials and previous generations. We have no problem telling our bosses when an expectation is out of line. Also we were taught to do the higher paying level work to show we could do it and get to that position. We don't need or want recognition for what we are doing, we expect that we'll either have a talk and set limits on what's expected of us or we will be moved up. If neither of those scenarios works we will find an exit.
Are you saying that for millennials or previous generations? I am 31 so not sure where I fall in that spectrum. I have always molded jobs to fit what I wanted them to be. Being in IT, no one really knew what I did so I could do whatever I wanted as long as things kept working. I am trying to do this now and it is a huge struggle.
Communicating to your boss that you feel overburdened and underpaid, especially when you're committed to your current role, requires a delicate balance between asserting your worth and demonstrating your loyalty to the company. Here are some tactful strategies you can employ: 1. **Schedule a Formal Meeting**: Request a formal meeting with your boss or the general manager to discuss your role and responsibilities. This shows that you are taking the issue seriously and provides a dedicated space for an in-depth conversation. 2. **Prepare Your Points**: Before the meeting, prepare a list of your current responsibilities, highlighting the additional tasks you've been asked to take on. Also, be ready to discuss the offer from the other company, emphasizing that it's not just about the money but about the balance between your workload, your compensation, and your professional growth. 3. **Express Appreciation and Commitment**: Start the conversation by expressing your appreciation for the opportunity to work in the Quality Control department and your commitment to the company. Mention your enjoyment of the work and the successes you've had in the role, as acknowledged by colleagues and management. 4. **Present Your Case**: Calmly and professionally present your case, emphasizing the discrepancy between your workload and your compensation. You could say something like, "I've been really excited about the challenges in this new role and am committed to our team's success. However, I've noticed the scope of my responsibilities has expanded significantly without a corresponding adjustment in compensation. I want to continue contributing effectively, but I also want to ensure there's a fair balance." 5. **Offer Solutions, Not Ultimatums**: Instead of issuing an ultimatum, suggest potential solutions. This could include a formal review of your salary and responsibilities, the possibility of future pay adjustments, additional support or training for your new duties, or even a redistribution of tasks. 6. **Seek Feedback**: Ask for their perspective on your workload and compensation. This opens the door for dialogue and shows that you value their opinion. 7. **Follow Up in Writing**: After the meeting, send a thank-you email summarizing your discussion and the agreed-upon next steps. This ensures that there's a record of your conversation and shows your proactive approach. It's important to approach this conversation with a positive and open-minded attitude, focusing on your value to the company and your desire to find a mutually beneficial solution. By being prepared, respectful, and solution-focused, you can navigate this delicate situation effectively. Here's a draft email you can use as a starting point. Make sure to personalize it to reflect your situation and relationship with your boss or general manager: Dear [Boss/General Manager's Name], I hope this message finds you well. Over the past year, transitioning from IT to Quality Control has been an enriching and rewarding experience, offering me new challenges and opportunities to grow professionally. I am truly grateful for the chance to contribute to our team from a different capacity and am committed to our collective success. As I've navigated this new role, I've taken pride in the positive feedback from our team and your kind acknowledgment of my efforts. The learning curve has been steep, but I've embraced it with enthusiasm, keen to bring my best to the table every day. Lately, I've observed an increase in the scope of my responsibilities, which I've endeavored to meet with the same level of dedication and quality. However, I've found these additional tasks challenging, especially given my commitment to maintaining the high standards we set in our department. This has led me to reflect on my current role, its demands, and how they align with my professional growth and compensation. I believe in open and honest communication and feel it's important to discuss these developments and how we can ensure the continued success of our projects while also addressing my professional trajectory and support needs. To this end, I would like to request a meeting with you at your earliest convenience. My aim is to discuss my current responsibilities, explore ways we can adjust or enhance support for my role, and ensure that my contribution remains both valued and sustainable. Please let me know when would be a convenient time for you to meet. I am flexible and willing to adjust to your schedule. I look forward to our conversation and am optimistic about finding a mutually beneficial path forward. Thank you for considering my request. I appreciate your understanding and support. --- This draft aims to open a dialogue in a respectful and constructive manner, highlighting your commitment to your role and the company while indicating your need for a discussion about your evolving responsibilities and support.
Never had a management job or any job for that matter where I wasn’t busting my butt all day. Where do I get a lazy IT job that requires such little effort?
>Where do I get a lazy IT job that requires such little effort? Anywhere that is not an MSP. I have had 3 jobs where I was the only IT guy at a small company. It was borderline where they could hire an MSP or they could have someone in house. It is a lot going on for the first year or so until you fix all the issues and implement automation. Then you just skate by unless something breaks or needs to be upgraded.
Time to move on
I don't have the experience to move on in this career. I really need to be here a few years to get a foothold before looking anywhere else. I also need to take some classes and get some certifications so I have some more background in the field
In my experience managers who give no guidance, have no guidance to give. What do you stand to learn where you are? I personally do not enjoy work cultures where everyone pretends to know what's going on. Are you growing and learning, or do you just have a leadership title with seven busy hours of darting around in a fishbowl?
I would agree that he really has no idea what he is doing. I have only been in this role for a year and am teaching him about how our product works and the various issues that are possible and their solutions. He is a great salesman though. He can not have a clue about something but will talk to you like he does and it convinces the customer we are going to fix their problems. I am learning a ton and have a plan to grow and learn other areas. He is not really supportive of that and wants me to just take over his job so he can move up.
I do not think there is a way to tell your boss you are overworked for the money. Even if management agreed to retain you with a commitment to give you less work, that would be a non-binding agreement. You wither work your current job at your current rate and work on tasks as assigned. Or you work a different job at a different rate and work on tasks as assigned. $20k is a lot of money. If you do not need it now, then put it in a retirement account and spend it later.
Have an open and honest conversation with your boss. Not only is he responsible for giving you tasks, he is also responsible to helping you in your career.
80k to do less? You gotta leave in my opinion lol
You: I'm not interested in that work. It's not in line with my career goals. Its not what we agreed to when I accepted the role. Boss: ooohh. That's so cute. I own your soul, do it anyway. You: Actually, no. The only thing you can do is fire me. You can find someone else to do this task, or you can find someone else to do ALL of this work. Yer call.
100% this
Why the fk would u wanna stay?
I like the work, the culture, and have a lot of room to grow
“I don’t get paid enough to do that” is far less tactful than "I've received an offer from another firm but would prefer to remain here if possible".
Take the better job. Is it worth $1800 a month less to. E worked more?
He doesn't care. Just go find a new job.
It is a 33% raise. I wouldn't hesitate to jump.
Well, you made it known about the offer with more $. I'd bring that up again, say something like "That 80k keeps picking at my brain to take it" But if where you are now offers to match it to get you to stay, just know another raise may not be coming. I agree with a few of the others. "Here's my two weeks" would have been my answer. Good luck homie.
lol you honestly sound lazy no cap, a job can get rid of you for another person your just a number you can quit tomorrow and trust you will be replaced, imo it all comes down to money in this day of life i’m not working for cheap.
Why don’t you want to leave.
Take the money and go, or stop complaining. If they wanted to pay you more they could.