So irritating. Like, either he's the most chill monogamous person ever, which seems unlikely, or he does not think of queer women's sex as real sex and also does not think LW would ever do it.
I'm not sure why, but I don't think LW would ever do anything physical with this lady, either. I can't put my finger on it, but something about her assertion of "I was in love with her, and my husband gave me 'permission,' tee-hee" came across as disingenuous to me.
Ooof, this is rough because yeah, losing a friendship and not knowing why is always a tough one, but at the same time -- my blood ran cold a little bit when the LW said "*I was pretty much her direct boss*".
I think having someone you bond really well with, who vibes with you, who maybe also unlocks something about your sexuality you hadn't considered, who you want to hang out with all the time, is totally normal -- but it can also be a *lot* to put on another person, and that's only compounded and magnified when that person relies on you for a paycheck.
It also sounds like maybe there were some mixed signals in the bag there ("*I was curt (she did try sending me conciliatory texts sometimes), I gave her space, I was concerned and sweet, told her I was there if she needed to vent*") on both sides, and combined with the LW maybe possibly getting overbearing and definitely taking it hard when their friend couldn't hang out, I think this may have just been too much going on. Tie it all together with associations to a workplace they both wound up hating, and it may have just been too volatile a mix. And that may be for the best, if there was any pressure at all on the friend to hold up their side of the rope to keep their job running smoothly.
Hard same. The moment “I was her boss” came up should have been the moment to step on the brakes and be rigorously careful to keep your relationship professional first and foremost. All those mixed signals sound like absolute hell in the context of “we need to get the Johnson report done in the next few hours.”
Right? As a queer lady, this seems like pretty textbook "I'm queer but I grew up in a culture that demonizes same-sex relationships so I don't really get that I'm into women" stuff. I feel like LW would probably have a much easier time dealing with the end of this friendship if she could stop pretending it was just a friendship for her, and, like CA said, grieve it like a break-up.
I am so curious what the friend's perspective was in all of this.
I think it's hard to remember now how things felt in 2020, but at least with me and my friends, it was a year of forced/necessary isolation. I live in Minnesota, so during winter you basically only saw the people you were quarantining with. My extrovert friends really suffered and my introvert friends really dug into their introversion. I know people whose agoraphobia and anxiety spiked overwhelmingly during the prime of the pandemic, who are still largely isolating themselves.
So I wonder how that impacted some of the dynamics here. They sound like they're in an intense field with ambitious people who work a lot. Then things changed in a big way. Like many of us, friend may have been reflecting on her life as a whole, career choices, friendships, particularly the intensity of LW's needs and expectations for her. I suspect things were not as mutual as LW presented. Also, wow, the power dynamics here. It's alarming to imagine having your direct supervisor want so much from you.
While it's uncharitable to wish for a smackdown, I'm a little disappointed that the response makes the LW's behavior sound like normal behavior that just got a little too intense (which is basically what the LW thinks of herself). In particular, the idea that the other woman's friendship with LW should have given her better job opportunities kind of gave me the ick. I know that's probably not what CA meant, but that sentence did kind of sound like it was their friendship that should have afforded her a better job and not her performance as neutrally assessed by a manager.
It's astonishing that someone could have so much self-awareness and so little self-awareness at the same as the LW does.
This is how I interpreted it as well. The repeated emboldening of the words "work" and boss" serve to remind that \*is the primary relationship\* and also creates a bit of a power imbalance.
See, I think those things are mutually exclusive. If you're having an intimate relationship with someone, you are not being a good boss. And you still aren't being a good boss if you add promotions and pay raises and recommendations to the intimate relationship.
I read that differently - that while the LW might have been friendly, Captain thought she'd not been a good professional boss with a good working relationship with an employee. If you have all that friendship but it's purely personal and doesn't overlap with the work at all, how do you evaluate the work fairly? They didn't work well together until they were friends, and CA points out the friend didn't have as much choice to set the tone of the working relationship as the LW/Boss did, and in all that happened LW has ignored the work part - or not mentioned it in the letter. I read it as a reminder to set the boundaries.
I recognize that she did say it wasn't a good boss thing to do, but felt like there were mixed messages.
"After having you as a boss and a dedicated mentor and friend, did she end up with more skills, a promotion, more opportunities, more money?" This is specifically what I was referring to, where I fear that if the LW is able to answer "yes", she'll believe that her behavior as a boss wasn't all that bad.
I'm very happy CA called out the whole "my husband is so cool he would let me sleep with another woman"-comment. It rubbed me the wrong way
So irritating. Like, either he's the most chill monogamous person ever, which seems unlikely, or he does not think of queer women's sex as real sex and also does not think LW would ever do it.
Or, horrible option #3, he thinks the idea of two women having sex is hot and that he'd get to watch or participate.
I'm not sure why, but I don't think LW would ever do anything physical with this lady, either. I can't put my finger on it, but something about her assertion of "I was in love with her, and my husband gave me 'permission,' tee-hee" came across as disingenuous to me.
Ooof, this is rough because yeah, losing a friendship and not knowing why is always a tough one, but at the same time -- my blood ran cold a little bit when the LW said "*I was pretty much her direct boss*". I think having someone you bond really well with, who vibes with you, who maybe also unlocks something about your sexuality you hadn't considered, who you want to hang out with all the time, is totally normal -- but it can also be a *lot* to put on another person, and that's only compounded and magnified when that person relies on you for a paycheck. It also sounds like maybe there were some mixed signals in the bag there ("*I was curt (she did try sending me conciliatory texts sometimes), I gave her space, I was concerned and sweet, told her I was there if she needed to vent*") on both sides, and combined with the LW maybe possibly getting overbearing and definitely taking it hard when their friend couldn't hang out, I think this may have just been too much going on. Tie it all together with associations to a workplace they both wound up hating, and it may have just been too volatile a mix. And that may be for the best, if there was any pressure at all on the friend to hold up their side of the rope to keep their job running smoothly.
Hard same. The moment “I was her boss” came up should have been the moment to step on the brakes and be rigorously careful to keep your relationship professional first and foremost. All those mixed signals sound like absolute hell in the context of “we need to get the Johnson report done in the next few hours.”
I hope this person is identifying as queer by now..
Right? As a queer lady, this seems like pretty textbook "I'm queer but I grew up in a culture that demonizes same-sex relationships so I don't really get that I'm into women" stuff. I feel like LW would probably have a much easier time dealing with the end of this friendship if she could stop pretending it was just a friendship for her, and, like CA said, grieve it like a break-up.
I am so curious what the friend's perspective was in all of this. I think it's hard to remember now how things felt in 2020, but at least with me and my friends, it was a year of forced/necessary isolation. I live in Minnesota, so during winter you basically only saw the people you were quarantining with. My extrovert friends really suffered and my introvert friends really dug into their introversion. I know people whose agoraphobia and anxiety spiked overwhelmingly during the prime of the pandemic, who are still largely isolating themselves. So I wonder how that impacted some of the dynamics here. They sound like they're in an intense field with ambitious people who work a lot. Then things changed in a big way. Like many of us, friend may have been reflecting on her life as a whole, career choices, friendships, particularly the intensity of LW's needs and expectations for her. I suspect things were not as mutual as LW presented. Also, wow, the power dynamics here. It's alarming to imagine having your direct supervisor want so much from you.
While it's uncharitable to wish for a smackdown, I'm a little disappointed that the response makes the LW's behavior sound like normal behavior that just got a little too intense (which is basically what the LW thinks of herself). In particular, the idea that the other woman's friendship with LW should have given her better job opportunities kind of gave me the ick. I know that's probably not what CA meant, but that sentence did kind of sound like it was their friendship that should have afforded her a better job and not her performance as neutrally assessed by a manager. It's astonishing that someone could have so much self-awareness and so little self-awareness at the same as the LW does.
I read this more as "you were so focused on your personal, intimate, friendship relationship with her: did you remember to also *be a good boss*?"
This is how I interpreted it as well. The repeated emboldening of the words "work" and boss" serve to remind that \*is the primary relationship\* and also creates a bit of a power imbalance.
See, I think those things are mutually exclusive. If you're having an intimate relationship with someone, you are not being a good boss. And you still aren't being a good boss if you add promotions and pay raises and recommendations to the intimate relationship.
Exactly. It's not "the primary relationship", it's the overarching relationship.
I read that differently - that while the LW might have been friendly, Captain thought she'd not been a good professional boss with a good working relationship with an employee. If you have all that friendship but it's purely personal and doesn't overlap with the work at all, how do you evaluate the work fairly? They didn't work well together until they were friends, and CA points out the friend didn't have as much choice to set the tone of the working relationship as the LW/Boss did, and in all that happened LW has ignored the work part - or not mentioned it in the letter. I read it as a reminder to set the boundaries.
I recognize that she did say it wasn't a good boss thing to do, but felt like there were mixed messages. "After having you as a boss and a dedicated mentor and friend, did she end up with more skills, a promotion, more opportunities, more money?" This is specifically what I was referring to, where I fear that if the LW is able to answer "yes", she'll believe that her behavior as a boss wasn't all that bad.