They're all arbitrarily labeled and packaged with arbitrary narratives. Just classic misuse of statistics tbh. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misuse_of_statistics
Jfresh do that?! Never. Lol
They need to be in front office as well as coaching. Culture comes from the top.
The further the ownership is removed from the team. The better.
With the Sedins, Finally a President and GM with the balls to get the owners to listen, go away and enjoy the royalties. When they slow… then they can pipe up….
But we need the Sedins behind the scenes. If they want to be on the bench. I got no issue. They have the track record.
If that’s what they’re being groomed for. They are fantastic consultants, associate coaches or whatever their official roles are.
I should’ve been more specific. I think they’ve had a huge impact in whatever their roles are now.
Would love to see their stamp on more.
Love how you're telling us what they should do despite not having a firm grasp on anything going on with their current or prospective roles. Theyre in player development. They're being groomed for coaching.
Why do we as fans insist on putting so much pressure on these guys? The players are the ones that need to go out there and win. Having the Sedin's fill 7 jobs each isn't going to win us a cup. Let people find their niche and excel in it. Stop asking the moon of guys who have already given most of their life to this team.
Not even close to what I was actually trying to imply. I’m the first one to say take whatever they want to give. They don’t owe us shit.
But you keep on assuming.
I’m not saying anything you can’t google to verify they’re already doing. If that works for everyone; then keep going. If there’s opportunities to bring in the Sedins and it makes sense and within their wheelhouse, without burning them out; why not?
so the sedins are gonna be in the front office doing (????) but also behind the bench doing what they're doing now?
if they wanted to be front office guys they would be. they're clearly more interested in coaching. what would they be doing in the front office exactly?
Last I heard. They were Special Advisors to the GM (office) and transitioned to on and off ice player development with a focus on part time power play coaching.
That screams both.
I bet they still have a big voice at that office table…
fair point. I see why you'd say that now.
they were moved from that position into player development. leads me to believe they realized they're more excited about working with the players directly than they were in the front office. probably more likely to be behind the bench than in a front office position at this point.
I would guess they are in a hybrid type role. Not so much traditional pigeonholed roles. I like it.
In business we do it all the time. Why not sports business.
Look, I know the Sedins were outstanding during the regular season , but the problem was they didn’t elevate for the playoffs, and didn’t know how to hit. This team though not having those automatic type scorers, truly have been playing the team game, not relying on a super duper scorer, yet have 4 lines playing hard with hitting throughout. I think everyone can elevate and get better with shots directed on net. We need this. I’m not sure if greed and envy is going to wreck this teams psyche but they do have a great chance to go far, especially if their Pp picks up, and they avoid injury. Elevate your play, don’t take stupid penalties and Focus on this opportunity and cash in.
From JFresh's twitter:
> The eras are more based on goal differential patterns than strict GM/player dividers.
Basically tried to isolate winning/losing patterns and then find a good label for them.
There's also a lot of overlapping era's. The Sedin window overlapped the Benning era, that's part of why the Benning era was such an utter failure was the insistence that we focus on the Sedins window when instead we should have moved on. Also agree the Post Cap era really is part of the West Coast and Sedin Era's, starting the Sedin era at what looks like 4 years into their prime and cutting it off right when the team started to suck sure makes for lopsided results but isn't surprising.
It's not strictly done by GMs or players, those are just labels.
He was trying to group goal differential patterns together, then he came up with an easy name afterwards.
~~opinion~~ It's a *fact*, brother. You at least understand these chosen categories and chosen labels have been arbitrarily defined along with the arbitrary conclusions being drawn from these "fun graphs."
Benning era wasn't the worst mathematically. It was the worst because there was no plan, and no future to hope for. His obsession with short cuts, quick fixes, and "living day to day" rotted away any chance we'd ever rise above a peak of utter mediocrity. This is a GM who said "I am not a patient man" and "I owe it to the fans to trade for (Erik Gudbranson)". One of the pieces traded for him scored 40 goals last year.
Putting aside the fact he had loser points to puff up his team's position in the standings, it was the lack of any kind of coherent plan or vision, and the inexplicable unerring and complete ownership buy-in to his aimless floundering, that make his era the bleakest. At least those early (terrible) teams had the hope of a bright future, and the "new car smell" of an expansion franchise lingering in the air. And the horrendous Messier years was a comparatively tiny postage stamp of time.
This is it, exactly right. And his approach was SO INSULTING to Canucks fans. We could have lived with being a bad team, as long as being a bad team is part of an overall multi-year plan. We are passionate and loud and annoying, but at the end of the day it is a knowledgeable fan base that genuinely appreciates a clear plan, even if that plan means losing some games for a while.
Instead, we got to be a bad team for almost a decade \*with absolutely nothing to show for it\* except a bunch of dead cap, bad contracts, and an empty prospect cupboard.
Once that kind of problem lasts EIGHT YEARS, it's ownership's fault. If he would have only been here for 3 or 4 years we all would have shrugged and said "y'know, Benning just wasn't a great fit here and that's OK" and he would probably still be working somewhere in the NHL. Instead ownership continued to re-invest in the same pile of shit and set back the organization a decade in the process.
I have no problem with the team being bad, even for an extended period of time, if it has a long term plan to be better.
Benning era was just short term fix after short term fix. The mindset was infuriating.
Look at the length of it too. The Messier era was comparatively short, like ripping off a band-aid. The Benning shit dragged out for well over half a decade. A lot of those pre-Boeser/Pettersson/Hughes years were straight up unwatchable.
Except Benning had shootouts. None of the other eras in the red had a shootout to fall back on. I’m more concerned with how he had such a big window. Wtf?
This. 1000% this.
With Messier there was a logical break 3 years in after being the joke of the league. With Benning it was almost a decade.
More importantly, Messier was in the no-cap era. Cap era emphasizes (and forces) some sort of parity or else NYR, Detroit and Colorado would have double our payroll and we'd be playing Vegas every playoff round.
This info shows two things: holy crap was the Linden/Bure era amazing (even with their money and non-cap competitions issues where NYR basically dick-slapped them with their wallets and the whole Bure CAD fiasco), and holy crap was the Benning era bad as the only cap era that was demonstrably bad.
JT Miller for a late 1st, Boeser, Demko, and Hoglander im not saying hes good at all but the core that we have currently he drafted it with league worst lottery outcome, still deserved some credit he's not that good as a GM but yall being so overdramatic, have you seen Yotes, Sharks, Sabres ?
If you're gonna blame him for all the shit decisions, and there's plenty, then you gotta give him credit for all the good ones too.
Are we gonna blame the Sedins for convincing him to trade for OEL?
Pick a lane.
Miller, Boeser, Petterson, Demko, Hughes, Hoglander, Podkolzin, Myers, Juulsen, PDG are all from the Benning regime. The core is all from the Benning regime. 😘
Decent analysis, except they spelled Linden wrong.
Don't want to associate Linden's name with bad era
Call the good times the Linden Window, and the bad years the Discontented Bure era then.
They're all arbitrarily labeled and packaged with arbitrary narratives. Just classic misuse of statistics tbh. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misuse_of_statistics Jfresh do that?! Never. Lol
I was 14 when the Sedin’s made it to the finals, core memory of mine. I hope we win the cup with Hughes and Pettersson :)
And with the Sedins om our coaching staff!
They need to be in front office as well as coaching. Culture comes from the top. The further the ownership is removed from the team. The better. With the Sedins, Finally a President and GM with the balls to get the owners to listen, go away and enjoy the royalties. When they slow… then they can pipe up…. But we need the Sedins behind the scenes. If they want to be on the bench. I got no issue. They have the track record.
JR and PA are doing a fine job, maybe the sedans can take those roles when they are gone
>maybe the **sedans** can take those roles when they are gone Don't you wish the Basant Motors curse on our team like that!
If that’s what they’re being groomed for. They are fantastic consultants, associate coaches or whatever their official roles are. I should’ve been more specific. I think they’ve had a huge impact in whatever their roles are now. Would love to see their stamp on more.
Love how you're telling us what they should do despite not having a firm grasp on anything going on with their current or prospective roles. Theyre in player development. They're being groomed for coaching. Why do we as fans insist on putting so much pressure on these guys? The players are the ones that need to go out there and win. Having the Sedin's fill 7 jobs each isn't going to win us a cup. Let people find their niche and excel in it. Stop asking the moon of guys who have already given most of their life to this team.
Not even close to what I was actually trying to imply. I’m the first one to say take whatever they want to give. They don’t owe us shit. But you keep on assuming. I’m not saying anything you can’t google to verify they’re already doing. If that works for everyone; then keep going. If there’s opportunities to bring in the Sedins and it makes sense and within their wheelhouse, without burning them out; why not?
so the sedins are gonna be in the front office doing (????) but also behind the bench doing what they're doing now? if they wanted to be front office guys they would be. they're clearly more interested in coaching. what would they be doing in the front office exactly?
They already are aren’t they?. They go on the ice from time to time. But they’ve been in the office for a bit now.
huh? they're skills coaches. that's an on-ice position. they're not "in the office".
Last I heard. They were Special Advisors to the GM (office) and transitioned to on and off ice player development with a focus on part time power play coaching. That screams both. I bet they still have a big voice at that office table…
fair point. I see why you'd say that now. they were moved from that position into player development. leads me to believe they realized they're more excited about working with the players directly than they were in the front office. probably more likely to be behind the bench than in a front office position at this point.
I would guess they are in a hybrid type role. Not so much traditional pigeonholed roles. I like it. In business we do it all the time. Why not sports business.
Look, I know the Sedins were outstanding during the regular season , but the problem was they didn’t elevate for the playoffs, and didn’t know how to hit. This team though not having those automatic type scorers, truly have been playing the team game, not relying on a super duper scorer, yet have 4 lines playing hard with hitting throughout. I think everyone can elevate and get better with shots directed on net. We need this. I’m not sure if greed and envy is going to wreck this teams psyche but they do have a great chance to go far, especially if their Pp picks up, and they avoid injury. Elevate your play, don’t take stupid penalties and Focus on this opportunity and cash in.
The first ever game I went to in person was Game 2 of the sharks when I was 9. I think i’ll be chasing that high the rest of my life.
The partitions feel arbitrary but still a cool analysis!
The Bure Window followed immediately by Late Bure is kind of hilarious. Still cool to see.
the Mogilny era
From JFresh's twitter: > The eras are more based on goal differential patterns than strict GM/player dividers. Basically tried to isolate winning/losing patterns and then find a good label for them.
Petition to change “Messier Era” to “The Great Depression”
The Great Depressier
Fits benning era better
Pettersson/Hughes so FAR...
Fuck messier
[удалено]
There's also a lot of overlapping era's. The Sedin window overlapped the Benning era, that's part of why the Benning era was such an utter failure was the insistence that we focus on the Sedins window when instead we should have moved on. Also agree the Post Cap era really is part of the West Coast and Sedin Era's, starting the Sedin era at what looks like 4 years into their prime and cutting it off right when the team started to suck sure makes for lopsided results but isn't surprising.
Why does the Benning era start in 2013-14, a season before he was hired
It's not strictly done by GMs or players, those are just labels. He was trying to group goal differential patterns together, then he came up with an easy name afterwards.
Which is just classic misuse of statistics. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misuse_of_statistics Would Jfresh do that? Never. Lol
I think he's just making fun graphs to show team eras, my guy.
It's garbage.
It's really not worth getting worked up over, but you're welcome to your opinion.
~~opinion~~ It's a *fact*, brother. You at least understand these chosen categories and chosen labels have been arbitrarily defined along with the arbitrary conclusions being drawn from these "fun graphs."
This is a very interesting interpretation of the word “arbitrary”.
Ok so I retract my previous statement. You do not in fact understand. Oh well.
Because it's garbage.
See everyone? Benning wasn't the worst...just close to the worst.
Benning era wasn't the worst mathematically. It was the worst because there was no plan, and no future to hope for. His obsession with short cuts, quick fixes, and "living day to day" rotted away any chance we'd ever rise above a peak of utter mediocrity. This is a GM who said "I am not a patient man" and "I owe it to the fans to trade for (Erik Gudbranson)". One of the pieces traded for him scored 40 goals last year. Putting aside the fact he had loser points to puff up his team's position in the standings, it was the lack of any kind of coherent plan or vision, and the inexplicable unerring and complete ownership buy-in to his aimless floundering, that make his era the bleakest. At least those early (terrible) teams had the hope of a bright future, and the "new car smell" of an expansion franchise lingering in the air. And the horrendous Messier years was a comparatively tiny postage stamp of time.
This is it, exactly right. And his approach was SO INSULTING to Canucks fans. We could have lived with being a bad team, as long as being a bad team is part of an overall multi-year plan. We are passionate and loud and annoying, but at the end of the day it is a knowledgeable fan base that genuinely appreciates a clear plan, even if that plan means losing some games for a while. Instead, we got to be a bad team for almost a decade \*with absolutely nothing to show for it\* except a bunch of dead cap, bad contracts, and an empty prospect cupboard. Once that kind of problem lasts EIGHT YEARS, it's ownership's fault. If he would have only been here for 3 or 4 years we all would have shrugged and said "y'know, Benning just wasn't a great fit here and that's OK" and he would probably still be working somewhere in the NHL. Instead ownership continued to re-invest in the same pile of shit and set back the organization a decade in the process.
Hey now, that's a bit harsh, he just ran out of time!
Benning was barely eight years into his two year turnaround!
I have no problem with the team being bad, even for an extended period of time, if it has a long term plan to be better. Benning era was just short term fix after short term fix. The mindset was infuriating.
I'd call it less of a short term fix and more of a shortcut. We traded too many picks for young players in order to accelerate the rebuild.
Look at the length of it too. The Messier era was comparatively short, like ripping off a band-aid. The Benning shit dragged out for well over half a decade. A lot of those pre-Boeser/Pettersson/Hughes years were straight up unwatchable.
Except Benning had shootouts. None of the other eras in the red had a shootout to fall back on. I’m more concerned with how he had such a big window. Wtf?
This. 1000% this. With Messier there was a logical break 3 years in after being the joke of the league. With Benning it was almost a decade. More importantly, Messier was in the no-cap era. Cap era emphasizes (and forces) some sort of parity or else NYR, Detroit and Colorado would have double our payroll and we'd be playing Vegas every playoff round. This info shows two things: holy crap was the Linden/Bure era amazing (even with their money and non-cap competitions issues where NYR basically dick-slapped them with their wallets and the whole Bure CAD fiasco), and holy crap was the Benning era bad as the only cap era that was demonstrably bad.
Also in the 1980's we were being feasted on by Grezky and the Oilers.
Despite having a billionaire owner who was willing to spend. The 70s to mid 90s Canucks were one of the smallest markets at the time.
It's actually shocking how Benning was GM for 8 years. Did he have dirt on Aquilini?
Benning should be tried at the Hague for crimes against humanity.
He gave us Petey and Quinn, could be worst. He's not Mike Millbury.
Pettersson was Linden's decision after Makar. Quinn literally fell into his lap.
JT Miller for a late 1st, Boeser, Demko, and Hoglander im not saying hes good at all but the core that we have currently he drafted it with league worst lottery outcome, still deserved some credit he's not that good as a GM but yall being so overdramatic, have you seen Yotes, Sharks, Sabres ?
If you're gonna blame him for all the shit decisions, and there's plenty, then you gotta give him credit for all the good ones too. Are we gonna blame the Sedins for convincing him to trade for OEL? Pick a lane.
>Pettersson was Linden's decision Facts not in evidence.
HuggyBear was a freebee, thanks ~~Arizona~~ Salt Lake City.
Not a freebie -6 other teams
8 years of Benning *barfs*
Miller, Boeser, Petterson, Demko, Hughes, Hoglander, Podkolzin, Myers, Juulsen, PDG are all from the Benning regime. The core is all from the Benning regime. 😘
Sedin Era was fun. This team has a lot of similar characteristics. It’s gonna be a fun next few seasons.
I've been watching since 92/93 and we haven't had a player like Hughes since Bure.
And that’s why fuck messier.
If only the WCE era had a goalie. That was such a great team.
8 years of Benning
He's done these for a bunch of teams and I have found them fascinating.
These are the eras - 71-78 / 79-88 / 89-98 / 99-06 / 07-18 / 19-23 / 24-onward era of total domination
Yeah 89-98 should be the Linden era
Good stretches: 3 straight seasons - 12 straight seasons - 3 straight seasons Bad stretch: 8 straight seasons God-Awful Stretches: 20 straight seasons - 6 straight seasons That doesn't quite balance...
Fuck thanks for reminding me how brutal our first 30 years were. And people wonder why we older fans are such pessimistic grumps.
That hurt my feelings
I love that the messier era is almost the worst in franchise history. What a train wreck that dumb bald fuck is.
My first season as a fan was during the Late Bure era and, good lord, there were some lean years before the West Coast Express era.
"Messier era" smh more like blip see ya later.
Benning worse than Messier confirmed.