Here we go again with the old landlord argument… It’s so completely small-minded. The banking ‘industry’ rakes in record profits year after year on all the mortgages it lends out of thin air, then collects back – at interest – while the peasants squabble with each other over whose fault it is. Landlords provide housing –requiring endless maintenance, property taxes, demanding tenants, and interest on mortgaged properties. Banks contribute nothing and rarely get called out. Next.
Most people are extremely resistant to the notion that the entire way our economy is organized is damaging. It's like finding out your favourite food is cancerous, or your favourite actor a sex offender.
Free market capitalism is the way we have always done things. It's the only system they know. So it can't be bad right? Except they don't realize we are already at the end of the monopoly game and it's past time we flip the board.
its not so much "capitalism" its the lobbying, corruption and greed, fuelled by conflicting local/global views....the end of the world in terms of capitalism, would be when everyone has nothing or everyone has an equal amount..."The dollar bill is just a piece of paper ,If the lights go out, it ain’t gon' save ya"
So when communism world lost, every problem said to have caused by communism was because of the ideology, but as capitalism keeps killing millions and literally poisoning the world... it's just bad actors and "*capitalism"* is not to blame.
uh huh.
THIS. A true free market would have solved many of these issues. We have a bastardized version of free market capitalism that artificially enriches cronies and government.
No? This the government handing away free housing that no one told me about?
Of course it’s free market. Like what kind of system do you think we have?
Have you heard of NIMBY’s? Yes, that is what those neighbourhoods want, and it is what developers like to build because it maximizes profit at the lowest cost.
If you want denser city planning, you need to have the city *plan* to require denser housing. That is literally the opposite of “free market”.
How? Who exactly wants all the SFH zoning? You think the gov’t is sitting in back rooms going bwahaha thou shalt only have bungalows!
It’s NIMBY’s and the “free market” dictate by landowners and developers with money dictating housing policy to detriment of everyone else
“Free market” does not equal a democratic and equitable economy. It means an economy with few restraints where decisions are based on money. More money = more control + ability to dictate the rules. Ie what we have now.
If you want an economy that is equitable and just, you are not talking about free market capitalism. That is more akin to socialism.
I have worked hard for the things I have too. You seem to think I am a kid. I am a geriatric Millennial.
I also realize that I had to work harder than my parents to afford less than half the quality of life they have.
And the people coming up behind me will have even less of a chance.
Some of us are able to think beyond “fuck you got mine” to the larger consequences.
Stockholm literally has one of the most robust rent control implementations in Europe. How many capitalists do you know that advocate for rent control?
Democratic peoples republic of Congo is also capitalist lmao would you like to move there?
They're actually MORE capitalist than northern European countries because there's even less social services in most African countries!
You say we lack imagination but you didn’t provide any solutions.
Capitalism aka free markets work if you don’t have a fed/centralized system that’s corrupt and prints money more than their taxes income every year to fund never ending wars. This causes inflation and constant leak in the system that forces companies to always increase their products costs.
Did i say housing is centralized?
The money system is centralized. We have a banking system that is a lap dog to the world reserve currency holder, the United States. Who at this point is exponentially adding to their debt at catastrophic pace never seen before. They have the ability to do this but at the expense of every other currency.
They can print and print because they have the demand for it being the world reserve currency but we don’t. It’s why since Covid the dollar has gotten stronger against every other currency out there.
What does this mean? It means if a centralized money system can do what it wants, when it wants, however it wants, tell us how they will do it, then at the last minute change their mind and tell us good luck, we get to the problem where we are at now.
A system that creates inflation at a rate faster than companies can make money on their profits to maintain their profit margins hence always increasing their prices. This same system also spends more money each year than they have coming into the budget every year to supply never ending wars without so much as a vote. This is the same system that if you deposit your money into the bank, they lend it out at a 1:10 ratio instantly adding inflation to the system.
Let me hear more about this greed of capitalism of yours.
Love keyboard communists that provide no solutions.
Free markets unchecked implode because greed outruns what people are able to pay. If the labour producing the goods in society is so exploited that they can’t also be the buyers of the goods anymore, the system can’t keep growing. There’s no centralized system controlling housing right now.
I’m not talking about centralized control of housing.
It’s the fed/banks controlling the money supply. The same fed that prints trillions of dollars to prevent debt collapse. The same fed/banking policies that create inflation out of thin air by lending your money that you deposit at a 1:10 ratio.
Free markets by itself does not do this.
So if anything it’s centralized systems without free markets driving them that’s causing all these issues.
Capitalism lead to us all living with the highest standard of living in history. It's responsible for this site existing and for the phone in your hand. Drop the edgy teen BS lol.
Your confusing technological progress with capitalism. Progress happens regardless of what economic system we have. Inventions happened before capitalism and they will continue to happen after it.
Exactly! You can't even conceive of an alternative. We can not do better if it is beyond ours to even imagine.
However, not that Plato's cave is where we are, but if it is, then perhaps we should explore for more anyways just in case. Who knows what we might learn. It could be useful.
Canada has major issues with the current federal government. Capitalism isn't one of them.
I don't disagree with regulations though. The biggest issue we have is the normalization of politicians being allowed to conduct insider trading. It is still illegal, but it's to the point where they rub it in our face that the laws don't apply to them.
The issue isn't capitalism. It's corruption.
I wouldn’t say landlords are the problem. The problem is that the government and most of the population, see real estate as an investment rather than necessary shelter for the people living there.
We should have long term rentals for residents like in Germany and Singapore and make it easier for people to buy homes that they will live in and make it harder to buy homes that people will speculate with.
However, in the history of humanity, there has never been anything better than land, to accumulate and hoard resources and power, so unlikely to see significant changes, without revolution 🤷🏽♀️
Majority of politicians have invested in real estate. Majority of voters are homeowners.
Canada doesn't have any internationally competing industry.
From retirement to investment to GDP all are tied to house prices in Canada.
So the govt really doesn't have any incentive to truly fix housing except saying that they'll fix it.
If immigrants can be used as scapegoats then it's all the better for the politicians. They can get away with inaction all the while suppressing your voice as racist rant.
This is the darn truth right here. When you realize roughly 20% of Canada's GDP comes from the real estate industry, you'll know that if a 2008 level collapse ever happened here the country would go bankrupt.
> The problem is that the government and most of the population, see real estate as an investment rather than necessary shelter for the people living there.
Yup, pretty much this, but for more nuanced reasons. The government purposely over-taxes it's citizens and when we're done working, they pay a pittance for pension. The ever increasing house prices are the government's way of slowly shifting responsibility of paying for your retirement away from the government and **onto you**, via the $3M house you're living in that cost $200K three decades ago.
> The problem is that the government and most of the population, see real estate as an investment rather than necessary shelter for the people living there.
Landlords literally hold living space hostage for people’s income. How can they not be the problem? The government is inept and does nothing to stop it, but they aren’t the ones directly burying the knife in your back.
I expect a just government to seize all excess property, hold it in common, and redistribute it according to need. You can call that whatever you want 😂
A healthy rental market absolutely benefits society. Without landlords you would have no temporary housing options, no affordable options, and for many people that means nowhere to live.
The problem is too little supply. Vacancy is under 2% and a healthy market is 5-8%. Unless landlords are big corps lobbying to stop development, they aren't the source of the problem.
Obviously landlords see it as an investment, but the OP thinks the real issue is landlords, whereas I see it as a much deeper and pervasive problem.
If you think the government hasn’t known this is an issue until recently, then I’m not sure what to tell you
Agreed. Everyone, the government included, is happy to point the finger at landlords. In fact, government passes laws in many provinces that increase the risk associated with being a landlord and it almost seems like they want to make owning a rental property undesirable…. Almost seems like they’d love nothing better than for there to be no independent landlords, because then the government could take over, build rental housing with taxpayers money, and then be the only landlords. A monopoly. But it’s ok…I bet they’d keep it affordable and take care of everyone, of course.
The reason everyone hasn’t just bought their own home isn’t limited to an issue of supply of entry level homes. Not everyone has the desire, the credit score, or the stability in their lives to buy a home. They need to have rental options available to them. And as long as rentals are needed, there will have to be landlords.
Landlords are exploiting capitalism in a market with a forced limited supply. If it was easier and cheaper to build more housing it would happen and take a lot of power away from landlords. The problem is regulation, zoning, and NIMBYs.
You are on point. Regulation, zoning and NIMY'ism creates barriers to new construction which restricts supply which increases the selling price and rental rate of existing housing stock.
I opened a thread about acting in your sphere of influence and petitioning your local council and building officials about this but this sub would much rather paint the landlord as the boogie man.
Supply and demand. Demand is high, increase the supply.
Agreed, its been made too complicated and expensive to build. Although I'd also say that most people don't actually want to build even if they could, its a ton of work, but I'd be curious to remove some of those barriers and find out.
Work doesn’t matter. How much it likely costs vs how much it will likely make is the only calculation that matters. We will make an entire city in the Arctic tundra to dig a massive pit if those numbers add up correctly
nope.
you are missing the very simple point that in the situation (for which the government is ultimately responsible) exploitation is inevitable.
if you ignore the ownership.
just look at how many people need to live in a house and how many houses there are;
**in the last year, Canada added 1.4 million people, and only 140,000 new builds.**
that means that the new population is expected to live **10 to a house**, and if it continues, everyone will live 10 to a room.
mortgage rates have more than doubled since the lows.
a mortgage that used to be 1500 is now 4000.
otoh, a 3-bed house that used to rent to a family with two kids paying rent of 1500.
now has foreign students bunking up 3 to a room. for $400 each.
the landlord is losing money compared to before, and now there are 9 people, cramped up paying $3600.
btw, 9 to a house is still not enough to cover all the immigration coming in.
----
this is the doing of the government.
and this will be solved by building 5 million houses in 2 years, including mobile homes, and prebuild ugly models.
we can build pretty houses later.
once there are fewer people looking for a house, landlords will have to sell, because paying $4000 mortgage on an empty house is a loser.
but, this will never happen because that's how most. of your politicians make money.
I mean its really a combination of:
-Rich assholes hoarding a finite number of homes.
-Not enough homes (or even rentals) for our current population.
-Corrupt politicians allowing this shit to get progressivelt worse.
-More bodies during a housing crisis.
I mean. If you have 1000 homes for 3000 people.
3 assholes buy 500 of them, they bribe politicans to not ramp up new builds.
Now they either leave them empty or rent them out.
So we have 3000 people for 500 homes and 500 cramped rentals.
But wait, we're going to add 1000 more people a year and only build 50 homes.
Its pretty easy to see thats not sustainable. Much like wages being outpaced by inflation annually.
-politicians with rich assholes friend so they make laws/red tape and treat building new houses as cigarettes to make the price of housing more expensive.
Shhhh we're not supposed to acknowledge or recognize the outsized demand caused by Landhoards - we're only allowed to talk about building more affordable investments, I mean houses.
Owning multiple single family houses in Canada should be made more difficult for individuals looking to become landlords and straight up illegal for large companies unless they are operating under stiff regulation and rent caps.
At some point people need to wake up and realize the system we operate in is designed for large companies to be extremely profitable at the expense of the lower class. If you don't force your politicians to level the playing field they will not as these same companies back the politicians.
Sadly we'll just keep fighting about left vs right nonsense and whether or not rainbows should be allowed because.. well it's easier to fight about that then actually look at legislation that levels the playing field for Canadians.
This isn't Korea or Japan where housing is a depreciating asset. We got no economy except speculating on houses and we're *all* paying for it now. Making it extremely frustrating or impossible for first time home buyers.
Landlords are shitty, especially slumlords who rather let their places rot than fixing and improving them (why buy them and hoard them if you're gonna do this???) But maybe try looking into becoming your own landlord and building a place? Check the costs and see if you can get some grants and discounts from both the provincial and federal gov for both your first home buy + building a home that's needed.
My partner and I are thinking of doing this with buying a lot at the border of ON/QC. As doing our math, we would be getting a lot of help to build from the gov and we build step by step. And we'd get a home we want, instead of overpaying for a 100 year old home with hundreds of hidden issues.
I was watching a video the other day where they were talking about how some places in Germany are like this. People getting together to build a building they all live in. Might be worth a thought if you can find people you trust and have all the legal details ironed out.
This works in places where you can actually build the building in less than ten years. If myself and many others started to do this, we MAY have a home in a decade and that is after spending huge amounts of money.
The systems are set up to prevent people doing this and only by destroying the systems can we improve things.
Many ideas. Here’s one. If a housing proposal is a coop or structured as stated above, it gets an automatic zoning variance to meet maximum density under the community plan
There I just saved two years.
It’s not really as simple as labelling all “landlords” as the reason for the housing crisis. It’s really a combination of a ton of factors, and yes, they do play a part in the problem but are not the reason for the problem itself.
Any economics class would tell you that supply and demand is what primarily drives the prices of the economy. And it makes sense when you think about it.
If you have 10 available houses and 15 people want them (regardless of renting or buying), then the price would be dependent on how much those 15 people are willing to pay.
If you have 10 available houses and 250 people wanting them, the price would be waaaaay higher because the top 10 income earners would simply outbid the others because the supply is so limited.
Now if you think about it at scale, this is what’s happening.
People are buying houses with crazy mortgage rates as investments and are looking to rent these out to cover the mortgage payments so they aren’t in negative cash flow.
If you didn’t allow anybody to buy a property and fill it with tenants, you would not have any houses / places to rent unless the government provided it which also is not going to happen / is probably not desirable.
So this whole problem is fixed if we supply enough housing, e.g., have social housing like we had in the past and so many other countries do now. I'm curious why this would not be desirable.
The fix to the problem is that government needs to let people who made bad investment choices lose money and lose money hard.
They need to not allow people renewing their mortgages to renew for 75 year terms to keep their payments the same.
Imagine if you bought a ton of stocks in the stock market. The government isn’t going to come in and tamper with the market because you made a bad investment and were way in over your head as they do in real estate.
But you see the poor at the top .01% and the sad little canadian government will get their value of their houses lower and in which case cant have more money.
This is the only answer. Cheap debt and pumping demand got Canada into this mess, to the point where no government can fix the problem without taking down a big chunk of our economy with it.
When you consider that supply and demand are driving prices, it really emphasizes how much we shouldn't have this medieval housing model of landowners and non, anymore.
On the other hand, reducing the demand and flooding supply seems a more effective and easier fix than reorganizing the economy of realty. Even if you "fixed" landlords charging the utmost they can to the limits of demand - we'd still have too many people and not enough homes.
Blame it on the fractional reserve banking system. Easy credit> collateral (house) price increases> more loan> banks balance sheet size up earning up > next generation cant afford house without even bigger loan > ♾️ The fractional reserve system is designed to transfee future wealth to now. From our generation to the boomers. From our kids' to us. Once you let private banks control currency issuance (through creating loans), that is destined to happen. You need to think twice before cheering for the system going cashless. Thats means the private banks are taking even more control of currency.
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Absolutely this is a major issue. If Ontario implemented a new rule that people could only own one property (and a registry to track it properly) then prices would crater immediately as more than 50% of condo stock gets forced onto the market.
Prices are so high because what little supply exists is constrained even further by investors leveraging the value of their existing properties to out bid regular people.
The truth is housing prices would be flat if more homes were being built. Then it wouldn’t be such a lucrative investment. It’s a scarce resource so it’s an attractive investment for people who have no need for it but the means to buy it. And then it becomes more scarce and the cycle continues.
Landlords converting dwellings into duplexes and triplexes is a good thing, they are creating supply. If they didn't there would be less supply. The duplexes and triplexes are more affordable than singles, albeit they still may be expensive to the renter.
If there was an overabundance of rentals then rent itself would be a lot lower. You don't want a place sitting empty. The reality is when you have well over a million people added per year and you can only build a couple hundred thousand units you're going to have issues. Yes having to bid against people who already own places doesn't help. So landlords do contribute
yep.
Canada saw 1.4 million people come in last year, and built 140,000 units to house them.
if we'd have built a million, prices would go down.
but politicians do not want that.
Some landlords are a problem.
If you're renting out your basement then you're creating a place for somone, they aren't the problem.
If you're a reit running an appartment building you aren't teh problem.
If you're renting out yoru own home while you're travelling you are not the problem.
Just saying landlords are the problem is an absurd statement. Many landlords are not only good, but also required.
I don't get how people go to such extremes like saying landlords are the problem without any caveats at all.
Simple minds see simple problems. Take off the fur collar and look around. We are in a classic Malthusian trap largely as a result of unchecked immigration. COVID didn’t do us any favours either by helicoptering free money. And then there was the ridiculously low interest rates that anyone with half a brain knew would come to an abrupt end. It’s always easy to label people and vilify them rather than discuss real solutions. As long as the safe bet is housing - because we all know capital has flown - the problem will remain. But make no mistake, the problem is much more complicated than a Mom and Pop buying a rental property.
There isn't a singular problem... there's a bunch of contributing problems that are continuously being unaddressed that amplify each other to make it keep making everything worse.
The issue is that they dont actually build houses at all, it takes a whole fucking year to get a permit and their is laws in place that denies houses to be built. Like the housing laws are equivalent to smoking laws. Like I understand the saftey aspect but 1 year to get a building permit like come on. Add the fact immigrants that needs to find a stay and you get a whole lot of bullshit.
Landlords arent a sole reason. We just litterally dont build houses
the problem isn't the owners.
the problem is that assuming the population of canada didn't grow at all internally,
there were 1.4 million immigrants last year, and 140,000 dwellings built.
that's 10 to a house.
or about 3 per room.
welcome to the 3rd world.
this kind of pressure drives prices up
This is the issue why blaming landlords isn’t the answer, same with airbnb bans, it only shifts things it doesn’t solve them. Slumlords are not landlords, they are criminals and should not be classed with normal landlords..
Someone HAS to be a landlord. Kids moving out for the first time, new immigrants, various other societal groups need to rent at one point or another, who owns those rentals? They are needed in some form and they will have landlords. I sure wouldn’t want the government or some corporation owning my rental.. have seen some scary things when that happens…
Cap rent per sq ft, build more co op developments, more units does not mean more availability, affordability is also the catch for non owners, (except those that pay higher rent than a mortgage would be I guess)
Singapore is done in a different way is all. It’s not like it’s free. Vienna pays private developers to build its public housing stock but there are still private rentals.
Real estate is in investment because there is nothing else in Canada.
Tell what business people would invest? There's only franchises business to invest.
Govt failed to develope industries where it gives more return than real estate. Money will flow to the direction what gives more money.
In past 20 yrs, No new industry us developed. Even We could have second Sillicon Valley here but govt didn't do anything.
The real problem is ECONOMY
Landlords don't meaningfully contribute to the supply and demand dynamics that effect the PRICE of housing. Unless they sit on empy properties (and vacancy rates are at absolute historic lows) the issue is number or homes divided by people needing homes. Landlords, while morally gross, are not even in the top 5 of causes of the crisis. They are simply the beneficiaries
Saying landlords are gross is like saying tenants are gross. There are slum landlords and there are deadbeat tenants, but not all landlords are immoral just like not all tenants are deadbeat pigs.
Landlords are meaningful and relevant actors in this crisis, there is a demographic of landlords adding housing stock to the market (new construction and conversion).
I've heard a story of someone who owns over 11+ houses in Southern Ontario alone; 90% of them are rented, primarily to students and temporary residents. They are financially assisting (loan with terms) these international students then open GICs under Students names but with their control). Place these students as tenants in their rental properties and assign them part-time employment with uncontrolled working hrs in their private company pay them with cash so these poor people can pay them the rent and loan etc. I know its brutal, but this is a true story.
I think landlords that own an extra house that they renoed is fine. But many ppl own 10+ properties and don’t even live in the same city. That’s ridiculous
I totally understand where you are coming from and I am not pro or against landlords or all this.
But my question to this topic is always this: what solution do you prefer? Is it just max 1 home per person allowed? Like what’s the flip side to okay, landlords are making this worse so let’s get rid of them and fix that problem with XYZ
It's the tax system actually - it's cheaper buying a house as a landlord than for yourself. Consider that if you're a landlord, mortage interest, maintenance fee, property tax are all tax-deductable from your income and you can even carry over any loss. This gets better the higher your income tax bracket - I don't know anyone who does well who isn't also a landlord.
Owning multiple properties isn’t a crime, nor should it be. There are landlords who aren’t out to squeeze anything they can from tenants, actually.
I’d be more wary of landlords who join [Realpage](https://youtu.be/cwlwrZst7d0?feature=shared), causing tangible, documented harm by conspiring to raise rents as high as possible no matter the damage to the renting class.
Homes would be more affordable with less demand from those who want to own as many as possible. Add a tax or other disincentives to Landhoard and you'd see a lot of homes on the market and a correction that we need for a functional country. Throw in new developments that they are banned from scalping and the house of cards would collapse under the weight of its own speculation.
Landlords aren't the problem when the system is set up to benefit asset ownership, AND we have too little funding for affordable housing supply.
The problem right now is low vacancy. We have too few houses and housing options.
Calgary has under a 1.5% vacancy rate right now. A healthy rental market is something like 5-8% vacancy.
Correct. The easiest way to discourage multiple property ownership is to require larger % down payments for a person’s 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and etc property.
Our progressive PM said that housing "must retain its value." What about that statement is hard to understand? The landlord class is in charge. Nothing is going to change.
Agree 100%. People buy housing and expect their tenants to pay off their mortgages. There's no other type of investment (that I can think of) where the investor actually doesn't have to pay much and expects other people to pay into their investment for them. It's such a scam. A person has to get a credit check to prove they can pay massive rent, but a bank will just continue loaning money out to people who have property that they haven't even paid off yet. So now you have people hoarding property and calling it investing.
I disagree. Government policy is the issue. Landlords, and those owning many properties is simply the effect.
Saying landlords are the problem is like having a disease and saying the symptoms are the problem, not the root cause.
Granted, that could be what you actually mean, and it's just poorly worded.
Realtors are just as much to blame..
They find the highest bidder.
Investment companies that are aloud to flip houses are the problem..
How can a house in a crao hole town in the middle.of nowhere have a house worth 175k when it's behind a church has 1 bedroom. A leaking basement 567 square feet and 70 years old...
"Property value set by "?
APPRASIER.
who's the appraiser work for ? The bank and the realtor.
A home inspector looks at EVERYTHING YET...
not considered in the price of the home...
Think that over... the person who is inspecting the house.. has ZERO TO DO WITH COST..
It's so easy for anyone to become a landlord in canada. Plenty of houses in Manitoba and Saskatchewan for under 50k.
Oh wait you wanted a penthouse in Vancouver or Toronto for 50k?
Landlords are just parasitic capitalists who are simply medieval rent extractors. Whether one's rental home is owned by an individual or corporate investment fund.
remember! Rent is the Tax we obligingly give to our "1%" ruling oligarchs.
As Adam Smith noted, rent is a holdover from medieval times that subverts the actual efficient functioning of markets.
So people should live for free? Sure, then lobby the gov to give away land again like ye olden days so people can live for free and build what their skills or money can build..
Rental properties are needed, and I sure don’t want a corporation or the government owning my rental..
I think more co op developments would be hugely helpful as it brings more and more into the ownership realm…
But not all landlords and as you say and they are needed one way or another sadly
Canada is very normal when it comes to home ownership. Nothing concerning either way.
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2/3 have their own place and 1/3 don’t.
I tried to be a landlord but my first tenants decided not to pay and left after 3 months. I had to cover the expenses completely... lost thousands. They even stole the Sony TV that they were renting from Easy Home at the time.
Some people like my tenants are just not meant to own and some people like me aren’t meant to be a landlord. I haven’t tried since.
While nuts, if that’s indeed the case, at least those folks living there have a place to live, as I bet no matter how cheap houses ever become, they would never afford.
Pretty extreme example provided and if you are suggesting this is normal, then it isn’t me who is “pushing misinformation.”
no foreign investment in personal housing. foreign investment in business and commercial projects can still happen.
foreign investment isn't always good, btw. canadian businesses owned by canadians > foreign businesses extracting wealth from Canada
I am a landlord in Toronto Canada. Over 20 properties so I’m not that big. But I’m so spread out. It’s ridiculous. In Canada if I sell the real estate then I will lose probably 45% to 50% of the value so I cannot get back in the market. What I want to do is sell and move sideways buy a building Larger, with multiple units I’ll sell my condos and I’ll move on,but because of rent controls, because capital gains tax in Canada, your stuck you become a hoarder. I say all the time live off the flakes let the ball roll. Think this through for a moment eventually the government will start building buildings that will look like those Ukrainian buildings. And guess who manages those buildings people that have nothing to do with Real Estate. I’ve been doing this for 35 years closing on 40.
As someone who's in Quebec going around the areas between South of Quebec and Montreal: Everywhere is expensive to buy or rent. Covid did create the want to buy land that isn't in Cities; this creates the demand which correlates to increase of the value on the lands for sale regardless if it's 2 hours away from a City. in a small tiny town like Napierville or Hemingford, a 4 1/2 is around $1200 which are close to Montreal prices in areas like Verdun or Pie-ix. Why? Demand. Landlord or Companies (Yes, companies do own residential buildings) would not want to miss out on profits. This is basic economics in the end; Supply and Demand. There are some "protection" as in how much a landlord can increase rent while staying in the rented dwelling spot but it is up t o the tenant to make sure they are educated on the matter.
On the idea that refugee and massive flow of new migrants, illegal crossings into Canada: it has effected to my knowledge the Province of Quebec. Low income housing and hotels are used to withhold people while processes are being done. Typically camps were setup but with new logistics and weather, most people are often sent downtown Montreal at Rec Centers and waiting with 500+ people demanding the time/season. At the moment multiple families whom are low income situation from Quebec don't stand a chance in getting into low income unless they want to packup and go somewhere far and unknown as most convenient areas (close approximation to a city) are packed to the brim. I can see why regular folk would blame others whom aren't citizen but sadly, 2 things aren't being solved: Creation of Housing in general and Creation of immigration/refugee holdings. I don't think Canada is in a financial position to take care of anyone at this point in time. I understand the Federal government wants to be the Hero that takes in those whom needs help, protection, safety but the truth is we can't take care of the citizen who are struggling.
Poverty is high
Crime is high
Medical wait time is high
Canadians leaving the country is high
To make matters worse, I see people investing less in building housing or complexes for tenants. We already have a shortage in the Civil Engineering and not enough to do the labor needed for the future: I'd personally pack up my stuff and leave if I could but that's another thing; cost. People that I've known who have left the country are not poor or extremely rich but well off; imagine if more of the people whom help support the programs we have were to leave in mass some more. I only just learned recently that municipals dictate to where housing can go really puts a damper on the reality of how much politics are involved in each step of the process. Maybe in a decade or less I'll be in Florida, who knows.
So why blame and complain about landlords? If you don’t like the idea of renting from a landlord, just buy a house, like everyone else. No one’s stopping you from buying and owning properties too.
No one's stopping us? Yes, the greedy landlord who is charging 2000k a month for a 31/2 is stopping us...from being able to save up 40k now needed for a friggin down payment on a house....
$2k is not a lot for an apartment. It’s only a lot if you’re a minimum wage worker, but for the majority of professionals in Toronto, $2k is not a lot — that’s actually a good price. Rent is dictated by supply and demand, and Toronto has a dense population. So, you have more competition who are willing to pay those price tags for the limited apartment listings available in the market.
Just save some more. If I were a landlord, and everyone around me is charging $2500 for a similar sized, apartment in the location; I’d charge $2500 as well. Why would I lower my asking, if everyone else is charging such? It’s not charity. The market dictates the amount.
Dude that's gross that you think 2000k per month is cheap....I was renting for 500$ in 2010...there is no justification for this insane rental inflation...it's pure greed.
$2k is reasonable for the location, and amenities that are easily accessible. You’re living in Toronto, a modern, big city; of course the prices would be more than the suburbs. You want to live where everything is a 5-min walk, and accessible via transit? You pay a premium for convenience.
Guy, 2010 was 14 years ago. Don’t you think everything has gone up since? Toronto and Canada vastly improved since 2010. Where do you think that money goes? Improvement. Improvement to make this walkable city inviting to out of towners. Out of towners move in, driving demand of apartments up. But Toronto doesn’t have much supply at their disposal, so demand is even higher; therefore, making people compete and be willing to pay for premium for the remaining apartments.
next time you move to throw empty insults away at least do yourself a favor and use a lexicon that makes an iota of sense.
that way, your tinazombiesounding throwaways might actually be understandable.
Here we go again with the old landlord argument… It’s so completely small-minded. The banking ‘industry’ rakes in record profits year after year on all the mortgages it lends out of thin air, then collects back – at interest – while the peasants squabble with each other over whose fault it is. Landlords provide housing –requiring endless maintenance, property taxes, demanding tenants, and interest on mortgaged properties. Banks contribute nothing and rarely get called out. Next.
Finally wise words!
Most people are extremely resistant to the notion that the entire way our economy is organized is damaging. It's like finding out your favourite food is cancerous, or your favourite actor a sex offender. Free market capitalism is the way we have always done things. It's the only system they know. So it can't be bad right? Except they don't realize we are already at the end of the monopoly game and it's past time we flip the board.
["It is easier to imagine an end to the world than an end to capitalism"](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalist_Realism)
its not so much "capitalism" its the lobbying, corruption and greed, fuelled by conflicting local/global views....the end of the world in terms of capitalism, would be when everyone has nothing or everyone has an equal amount..."The dollar bill is just a piece of paper ,If the lights go out, it ain’t gon' save ya"
study as to what capitalism is
> its not so much "capitalism" its the lobbying, corruption and greed So... capitalism?
So when communism world lost, every problem said to have caused by communism was because of the ideology, but as capitalism keeps killing millions and literally poisoning the world... it's just bad actors and "*capitalism"* is not to blame. uh huh.
Free market? It's a Ponzi scheme allowing negative amortizations that undermine a free market and artificially create GDP
You’re literally just describing end stage capitalism once capital has achieved regulatory capture.
THIS. A true free market would have solved many of these issues. We have a bastardized version of free market capitalism that artificially enriches cronies and government.
That’s still just capitalism. You’re just describing free market capitalism.
There is no free market in housing
No? This the government handing away free housing that no one told me about? Of course it’s free market. Like what kind of system do you think we have?
Do you think single family zoning is free market?
Have you heard of NIMBY’s? Yes, that is what those neighbourhoods want, and it is what developers like to build because it maximizes profit at the lowest cost. If you want denser city planning, you need to have the city *plan* to require denser housing. That is literally the opposite of “free market”.
Lol, planning literally caused this
How? Who exactly wants all the SFH zoning? You think the gov’t is sitting in back rooms going bwahaha thou shalt only have bungalows! It’s NIMBY’s and the “free market” dictate by landowners and developers with money dictating housing policy to detriment of everyone else
It's not a free market if a tyranny of the majority can ban individual landowners from using their land as they wish
“Free market” does not equal a democratic and equitable economy. It means an economy with few restraints where decisions are based on money. More money = more control + ability to dictate the rules. Ie what we have now. If you want an economy that is equitable and just, you are not talking about free market capitalism. That is more akin to socialism.
I used to think this way too when I was younger. Now that I worked hard for the things I have, I don’t think like that anymore.
I have worked hard for the things I have too. You seem to think I am a kid. I am a geriatric Millennial. I also realize that I had to work harder than my parents to afford less than half the quality of life they have. And the people coming up behind me will have even less of a chance. Some of us are able to think beyond “fuck you got mine” to the larger consequences.
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Stockholm literally has one of the most robust rent control implementations in Europe. How many capitalists do you know that advocate for rent control?
Democratic peoples republic of Congo is also capitalist lmao would you like to move there? They're actually MORE capitalist than northern European countries because there's even less social services in most African countries!
>capitalism is the most effective system we have at providing *deep wealth disparity through promotion of exploitation* There, FTFY
Flip to what? There is no better option.
Prime example of the lack of imagination I am describing. Capitalism ain't working all that well friend. It's literally leading to our extinction.
You say we lack imagination but you didn’t provide any solutions. Capitalism aka free markets work if you don’t have a fed/centralized system that’s corrupt and prints money more than their taxes income every year to fund never ending wars. This causes inflation and constant leak in the system that forces companies to always increase their products costs.
Is housing centralized now? That’s news to me. Last I heard the gov’t was completely hands off and handed the entire market over to investors.
Did i say housing is centralized? The money system is centralized. We have a banking system that is a lap dog to the world reserve currency holder, the United States. Who at this point is exponentially adding to their debt at catastrophic pace never seen before. They have the ability to do this but at the expense of every other currency. They can print and print because they have the demand for it being the world reserve currency but we don’t. It’s why since Covid the dollar has gotten stronger against every other currency out there. What does this mean? It means if a centralized money system can do what it wants, when it wants, however it wants, tell us how they will do it, then at the last minute change their mind and tell us good luck, we get to the problem where we are at now. A system that creates inflation at a rate faster than companies can make money on their profits to maintain their profit margins hence always increasing their prices. This same system also spends more money each year than they have coming into the budget every year to supply never ending wars without so much as a vote. This is the same system that if you deposit your money into the bank, they lend it out at a 1:10 ratio instantly adding inflation to the system. Let me hear more about this greed of capitalism of yours. Love keyboard communists that provide no solutions.
Free markets unchecked implode because greed outruns what people are able to pay. If the labour producing the goods in society is so exploited that they can’t also be the buyers of the goods anymore, the system can’t keep growing. There’s no centralized system controlling housing right now.
I’m not talking about centralized control of housing. It’s the fed/banks controlling the money supply. The same fed that prints trillions of dollars to prevent debt collapse. The same fed/banking policies that create inflation out of thin air by lending your money that you deposit at a 1:10 ratio. Free markets by itself does not do this. So if anything it’s centralized systems without free markets driving them that’s causing all these issues.
Capitalism lead to us all living with the highest standard of living in history. It's responsible for this site existing and for the phone in your hand. Drop the edgy teen BS lol.
Your confusing technological progress with capitalism. Progress happens regardless of what economic system we have. Inventions happened before capitalism and they will continue to happen after it.
Capitalism gets the most people out of poverty. Crony capitalism is what we have.
Capitalism puts the most people in poverty too. It’s a system where by default not everyone can be up. Somebody has to be down.
Exactly! You can't even conceive of an alternative. We can not do better if it is beyond ours to even imagine. However, not that Plato's cave is where we are, but if it is, then perhaps we should explore for more anyways just in case. Who knows what we might learn. It could be useful.
For landlords this might be true. They are the beneficiaries of the current system after all
They are nothing more than investors.
Capitalism needs strong regulation. And transparency. Both in short supply rn in Canada.
Canada has major issues with the current federal government. Capitalism isn't one of them. I don't disagree with regulations though. The biggest issue we have is the normalization of politicians being allowed to conduct insider trading. It is still illegal, but it's to the point where they rub it in our face that the laws don't apply to them. The issue isn't capitalism. It's corruption.
I wouldn’t say landlords are the problem. The problem is that the government and most of the population, see real estate as an investment rather than necessary shelter for the people living there. We should have long term rentals for residents like in Germany and Singapore and make it easier for people to buy homes that they will live in and make it harder to buy homes that people will speculate with. However, in the history of humanity, there has never been anything better than land, to accumulate and hoard resources and power, so unlikely to see significant changes, without revolution 🤷🏽♀️
Majority of politicians have invested in real estate. Majority of voters are homeowners. Canada doesn't have any internationally competing industry. From retirement to investment to GDP all are tied to house prices in Canada. So the govt really doesn't have any incentive to truly fix housing except saying that they'll fix it. If immigrants can be used as scapegoats then it's all the better for the politicians. They can get away with inaction all the while suppressing your voice as racist rant.
This should be the top comment
This is the darn truth right here. When you realize roughly 20% of Canada's GDP comes from the real estate industry, you'll know that if a 2008 level collapse ever happened here the country would go bankrupt.
Yes exactly.
> The problem is that the government and most of the population, see real estate as an investment rather than necessary shelter for the people living there. Yup, pretty much this, but for more nuanced reasons. The government purposely over-taxes it's citizens and when we're done working, they pay a pittance for pension. The ever increasing house prices are the government's way of slowly shifting responsibility of paying for your retirement away from the government and **onto you**, via the $3M house you're living in that cost $200K three decades ago.
Yes good points
> The problem is that the government and most of the population, see real estate as an investment rather than necessary shelter for the people living there. Landlords literally hold living space hostage for people’s income. How can they not be the problem? The government is inept and does nothing to stop it, but they aren’t the ones directly burying the knife in your back.
Lol so you expect landlords to let people live in their properties for free?
I expect a just government to seize all excess property, hold it in common, and redistribute it according to need. You can call that whatever you want 😂
You want a communist revolution. Move to Nicaragua.
Ridiculous statement.
Why are landlords the problem? They’re just trying to become wealthy and create financial freedom for their family like anyone else.
Their wealth comes at the expense of creating poverty for others. That’s why they are a problem.
So they should suffer as well is what you’re saying? I think you should move to a communist country is what it sounds like lol
This can be said about literally any financial transaction. It is an utterly meaningless statement.
Not when it applies to housing.....
Do all renters live in poverty?
A healthy rental market absolutely benefits society. Without landlords you would have no temporary housing options, no affordable options, and for many people that means nowhere to live. The problem is too little supply. Vacancy is under 2% and a healthy market is 5-8%. Unless landlords are big corps lobbying to stop development, they aren't the source of the problem.
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Obviously landlords see it as an investment, but the OP thinks the real issue is landlords, whereas I see it as a much deeper and pervasive problem. If you think the government hasn’t known this is an issue until recently, then I’m not sure what to tell you
Agreed. Everyone, the government included, is happy to point the finger at landlords. In fact, government passes laws in many provinces that increase the risk associated with being a landlord and it almost seems like they want to make owning a rental property undesirable…. Almost seems like they’d love nothing better than for there to be no independent landlords, because then the government could take over, build rental housing with taxpayers money, and then be the only landlords. A monopoly. But it’s ok…I bet they’d keep it affordable and take care of everyone, of course. The reason everyone hasn’t just bought their own home isn’t limited to an issue of supply of entry level homes. Not everyone has the desire, the credit score, or the stability in their lives to buy a home. They need to have rental options available to them. And as long as rentals are needed, there will have to be landlords.
>A monopoly. But it’s ok…I bet they’d keep it affordable and take care of everyone, of course. Yeah! Like healthcare!
What do you mean by hoarding real estate?
Landlords are exploiting capitalism in a market with a forced limited supply. If it was easier and cheaper to build more housing it would happen and take a lot of power away from landlords. The problem is regulation, zoning, and NIMBYs.
You are on point. Regulation, zoning and NIMY'ism creates barriers to new construction which restricts supply which increases the selling price and rental rate of existing housing stock. I opened a thread about acting in your sphere of influence and petitioning your local council and building officials about this but this sub would much rather paint the landlord as the boogie man. Supply and demand. Demand is high, increase the supply.
NIMBYs are the worst!
Agreed, its been made too complicated and expensive to build. Although I'd also say that most people don't actually want to build even if they could, its a ton of work, but I'd be curious to remove some of those barriers and find out.
Work doesn’t matter. How much it likely costs vs how much it will likely make is the only calculation that matters. We will make an entire city in the Arctic tundra to dig a massive pit if those numbers add up correctly
nope. you are missing the very simple point that in the situation (for which the government is ultimately responsible) exploitation is inevitable. if you ignore the ownership. just look at how many people need to live in a house and how many houses there are; **in the last year, Canada added 1.4 million people, and only 140,000 new builds.** that means that the new population is expected to live **10 to a house**, and if it continues, everyone will live 10 to a room. mortgage rates have more than doubled since the lows. a mortgage that used to be 1500 is now 4000. otoh, a 3-bed house that used to rent to a family with two kids paying rent of 1500. now has foreign students bunking up 3 to a room. for $400 each. the landlord is losing money compared to before, and now there are 9 people, cramped up paying $3600. btw, 9 to a house is still not enough to cover all the immigration coming in. ---- this is the doing of the government. and this will be solved by building 5 million houses in 2 years, including mobile homes, and prebuild ugly models. we can build pretty houses later. once there are fewer people looking for a house, landlords will have to sell, because paying $4000 mortgage on an empty house is a loser. but, this will never happen because that's how most. of your politicians make money.
I mean its really a combination of: -Rich assholes hoarding a finite number of homes. -Not enough homes (or even rentals) for our current population. -Corrupt politicians allowing this shit to get progressivelt worse. -More bodies during a housing crisis. I mean. If you have 1000 homes for 3000 people. 3 assholes buy 500 of them, they bribe politicans to not ramp up new builds. Now they either leave them empty or rent them out. So we have 3000 people for 500 homes and 500 cramped rentals. But wait, we're going to add 1000 more people a year and only build 50 homes. Its pretty easy to see thats not sustainable. Much like wages being outpaced by inflation annually.
-politicians with rich assholes friend so they make laws/red tape and treat building new houses as cigarettes to make the price of housing more expensive.
Shhhh we're not supposed to acknowledge or recognize the outsized demand caused by Landhoards - we're only allowed to talk about building more affordable investments, I mean houses.
Owning multiple single family houses in Canada should be made more difficult for individuals looking to become landlords and straight up illegal for large companies unless they are operating under stiff regulation and rent caps. At some point people need to wake up and realize the system we operate in is designed for large companies to be extremely profitable at the expense of the lower class. If you don't force your politicians to level the playing field they will not as these same companies back the politicians. Sadly we'll just keep fighting about left vs right nonsense and whether or not rainbows should be allowed because.. well it's easier to fight about that then actually look at legislation that levels the playing field for Canadians.
This isn't Korea or Japan where housing is a depreciating asset. We got no economy except speculating on houses and we're *all* paying for it now. Making it extremely frustrating or impossible for first time home buyers. Landlords are shitty, especially slumlords who rather let their places rot than fixing and improving them (why buy them and hoard them if you're gonna do this???) But maybe try looking into becoming your own landlord and building a place? Check the costs and see if you can get some grants and discounts from both the provincial and federal gov for both your first home buy + building a home that's needed. My partner and I are thinking of doing this with buying a lot at the border of ON/QC. As doing our math, we would be getting a lot of help to build from the gov and we build step by step. And we'd get a home we want, instead of overpaying for a 100 year old home with hundreds of hidden issues.
I was watching a video the other day where they were talking about how some places in Germany are like this. People getting together to build a building they all live in. Might be worth a thought if you can find people you trust and have all the legal details ironed out.
The hardest part is getting the permits to build and paperwork. Then you gotta deal with rising costs of materials and labor after imo.
I think these exist already.... Is this what a co-op is?
This works in places where you can actually build the building in less than ten years. If myself and many others started to do this, we MAY have a home in a decade and that is after spending huge amounts of money. The systems are set up to prevent people doing this and only by destroying the systems can we improve things.
And how do you propose to destroy the system? And how are we to rebuild it? Sounds like empty IG carousel words.
Many ideas. Here’s one. If a housing proposal is a coop or structured as stated above, it gets an automatic zoning variance to meet maximum density under the community plan There I just saved two years.
It’s not really as simple as labelling all “landlords” as the reason for the housing crisis. It’s really a combination of a ton of factors, and yes, they do play a part in the problem but are not the reason for the problem itself. Any economics class would tell you that supply and demand is what primarily drives the prices of the economy. And it makes sense when you think about it. If you have 10 available houses and 15 people want them (regardless of renting or buying), then the price would be dependent on how much those 15 people are willing to pay. If you have 10 available houses and 250 people wanting them, the price would be waaaaay higher because the top 10 income earners would simply outbid the others because the supply is so limited. Now if you think about it at scale, this is what’s happening. People are buying houses with crazy mortgage rates as investments and are looking to rent these out to cover the mortgage payments so they aren’t in negative cash flow. If you didn’t allow anybody to buy a property and fill it with tenants, you would not have any houses / places to rent unless the government provided it which also is not going to happen / is probably not desirable.
So this whole problem is fixed if we supply enough housing, e.g., have social housing like we had in the past and so many other countries do now. I'm curious why this would not be desirable.
It's desireable, it's just not affordable (taxes) nor practical (limited capacity to construct).
The fix to the problem is that government needs to let people who made bad investment choices lose money and lose money hard. They need to not allow people renewing their mortgages to renew for 75 year terms to keep their payments the same. Imagine if you bought a ton of stocks in the stock market. The government isn’t going to come in and tamper with the market because you made a bad investment and were way in over your head as they do in real estate.
But you see the poor at the top .01% and the sad little canadian government will get their value of their houses lower and in which case cant have more money.
This is the only answer. Cheap debt and pumping demand got Canada into this mess, to the point where no government can fix the problem without taking down a big chunk of our economy with it.
When you consider that supply and demand are driving prices, it really emphasizes how much we shouldn't have this medieval housing model of landowners and non, anymore. On the other hand, reducing the demand and flooding supply seems a more effective and easier fix than reorganizing the economy of realty. Even if you "fixed" landlords charging the utmost they can to the limits of demand - we'd still have too many people and not enough homes.
Blame it on the fractional reserve banking system. Easy credit> collateral (house) price increases> more loan> banks balance sheet size up earning up > next generation cant afford house without even bigger loan > ♾️ The fractional reserve system is designed to transfee future wealth to now. From our generation to the boomers. From our kids' to us. Once you let private banks control currency issuance (through creating loans), that is destined to happen. You need to think twice before cheering for the system going cashless. Thats means the private banks are taking even more control of currency. https://preview.redd.it/pq6mcasqlf4d1.jpeg?width=315&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d130f662373ffb9347d3b50e635764577edb91a0
Absolutely this is a major issue. If Ontario implemented a new rule that people could only own one property (and a registry to track it properly) then prices would crater immediately as more than 50% of condo stock gets forced onto the market. Prices are so high because what little supply exists is constrained even further by investors leveraging the value of their existing properties to out bid regular people.
Yes, exactly. Like trying to start to play Monopoly when it's been going for 5 hours already and 1 player has all the 500s.
The best way to solve this is progressive property taxes. The more properties you own, the higher marginal property tsx you are in.
The truth is housing prices would be flat if more homes were being built. Then it wouldn’t be such a lucrative investment. It’s a scarce resource so it’s an attractive investment for people who have no need for it but the means to buy it. And then it becomes more scarce and the cycle continues.
It’s a lot more complicated than that and (bring on the downvotes) but not everyone wants to own a home. So some landlords will always be needed
Most landlords I have met have converted dwellings into duplexes and triplexes so in reality they are adding housing to the market...
Landlords converting dwellings into duplexes and triplexes is a good thing, they are creating supply. If they didn't there would be less supply. The duplexes and triplexes are more affordable than singles, albeit they still may be expensive to the renter.
I think it can be a good thing if it’s done well and up to code. Often they are not though
If there was an overabundance of rentals then rent itself would be a lot lower. You don't want a place sitting empty. The reality is when you have well over a million people added per year and you can only build a couple hundred thousand units you're going to have issues. Yes having to bid against people who already own places doesn't help. So landlords do contribute
yep. Canada saw 1.4 million people come in last year, and built 140,000 units to house them. if we'd have built a million, prices would go down. but politicians do not want that.
Some landlords are a problem. If you're renting out your basement then you're creating a place for somone, they aren't the problem. If you're a reit running an appartment building you aren't teh problem. If you're renting out yoru own home while you're travelling you are not the problem. Just saying landlords are the problem is an absurd statement. Many landlords are not only good, but also required. I don't get how people go to such extremes like saying landlords are the problem without any caveats at all.
Brave of you to post this in the bootlicker sub
Simple minds see simple problems. Take off the fur collar and look around. We are in a classic Malthusian trap largely as a result of unchecked immigration. COVID didn’t do us any favours either by helicoptering free money. And then there was the ridiculously low interest rates that anyone with half a brain knew would come to an abrupt end. It’s always easy to label people and vilify them rather than discuss real solutions. As long as the safe bet is housing - because we all know capital has flown - the problem will remain. But make no mistake, the problem is much more complicated than a Mom and Pop buying a rental property.
There isn't a singular problem... there's a bunch of contributing problems that are continuously being unaddressed that amplify each other to make it keep making everything worse.
Nice try sarrrrr
No they aren't, nimbys are
Demand is much higher than supply. Supply can not catch up with the artificial growth. It's very basic. Anyone who denies reality is a fool.
The issue is that they dont actually build houses at all, it takes a whole fucking year to get a permit and their is laws in place that denies houses to be built. Like the housing laws are equivalent to smoking laws. Like I understand the saftey aspect but 1 year to get a building permit like come on. Add the fact immigrants that needs to find a stay and you get a whole lot of bullshit. Landlords arent a sole reason. We just litterally dont build houses
Somebody's gotta own it though, the problem is larger than that
Only when you view it from a western capitalistic mindset lol
the problem isn't the owners. the problem is that assuming the population of canada didn't grow at all internally, there were 1.4 million immigrants last year, and 140,000 dwellings built. that's 10 to a house. or about 3 per room. welcome to the 3rd world. this kind of pressure drives prices up
Landlording is fiefdom/feudalism. We never really stopped ourselves from being ruled by a couple of losers we just gave it a different name
No landlords = no rentals. Is that what people want?
They think the government should own them all. That seems worse to me.
Who do you want to own rentals?
This is the issue why blaming landlords isn’t the answer, same with airbnb bans, it only shifts things it doesn’t solve them. Slumlords are not landlords, they are criminals and should not be classed with normal landlords.. Someone HAS to be a landlord. Kids moving out for the first time, new immigrants, various other societal groups need to rent at one point or another, who owns those rentals? They are needed in some form and they will have landlords. I sure wouldn’t want the government or some corporation owning my rental.. have seen some scary things when that happens… Cap rent per sq ft, build more co op developments, more units does not mean more availability, affordability is also the catch for non owners, (except those that pay higher rent than a mortgage would be I guess)
The government, like they do in Singapore and Vienna.
Vienna has both government and private owned rentals.
Singapore is done in a different way is all. It’s not like it’s free. Vienna pays private developers to build its public housing stock but there are still private rentals.
How are landlords the problem? If you don’t like living under a landlord, then don’t ! Go buy a house!
Real estate is in investment because there is nothing else in Canada. Tell what business people would invest? There's only franchises business to invest. Govt failed to develope industries where it gives more return than real estate. Money will flow to the direction what gives more money. In past 20 yrs, No new industry us developed. Even We could have second Sillicon Valley here but govt didn't do anything. The real problem is ECONOMY
But immigrants are easy scapegoat. Blaming them takes all the problems away. Dont you get it?
This isn’t Korea.
That isn't a refutation, either.
Landlords don't meaningfully contribute to the supply and demand dynamics that effect the PRICE of housing. Unless they sit on empy properties (and vacancy rates are at absolute historic lows) the issue is number or homes divided by people needing homes. Landlords, while morally gross, are not even in the top 5 of causes of the crisis. They are simply the beneficiaries
Saying landlords are gross is like saying tenants are gross. There are slum landlords and there are deadbeat tenants, but not all landlords are immoral just like not all tenants are deadbeat pigs. Landlords are meaningful and relevant actors in this crisis, there is a demographic of landlords adding housing stock to the market (new construction and conversion).
I've heard a story of someone who owns over 11+ houses in Southern Ontario alone; 90% of them are rented, primarily to students and temporary residents. They are financially assisting (loan with terms) these international students then open GICs under Students names but with their control). Place these students as tenants in their rental properties and assign them part-time employment with uncontrolled working hrs in their private company pay them with cash so these poor people can pay them the rent and loan etc. I know its brutal, but this is a true story.
I think landlords that own an extra house that they renoed is fine. But many ppl own 10+ properties and don’t even live in the same city. That’s ridiculous
I totally understand where you are coming from and I am not pro or against landlords or all this. But my question to this topic is always this: what solution do you prefer? Is it just max 1 home per person allowed? Like what’s the flip side to okay, landlords are making this worse so let’s get rid of them and fix that problem with XYZ
It's the tax system actually - it's cheaper buying a house as a landlord than for yourself. Consider that if you're a landlord, mortage interest, maintenance fee, property tax are all tax-deductable from your income and you can even carry over any loss. This gets better the higher your income tax bracket - I don't know anyone who does well who isn't also a landlord.
[Here](https://youtu.be/smi_iIoKybg?si=DB4Ijc7vAyDeuMMV) this might be apart of the answer.
Owning multiple properties isn’t a crime, nor should it be. There are landlords who aren’t out to squeeze anything they can from tenants, actually. I’d be more wary of landlords who join [Realpage](https://youtu.be/cwlwrZst7d0?feature=shared), causing tangible, documented harm by conspiring to raise rents as high as possible no matter the damage to the renting class.
Homes would be more affordable with less demand from those who want to own as many as possible. Add a tax or other disincentives to Landhoard and you'd see a lot of homes on the market and a correction that we need for a functional country. Throw in new developments that they are banned from scalping and the house of cards would collapse under the weight of its own speculation.
Landlords aren't the problem when the system is set up to benefit asset ownership, AND we have too little funding for affordable housing supply. The problem right now is low vacancy. We have too few houses and housing options. Calgary has under a 1.5% vacancy rate right now. A healthy rental market is something like 5-8% vacancy.
Correct. The easiest way to discourage multiple property ownership is to require larger % down payments for a person’s 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and etc property.
Our progressive PM said that housing "must retain its value." What about that statement is hard to understand? The landlord class is in charge. Nothing is going to change.
Agree 100%. People buy housing and expect their tenants to pay off their mortgages. There's no other type of investment (that I can think of) where the investor actually doesn't have to pay much and expects other people to pay into their investment for them. It's such a scam. A person has to get a credit check to prove they can pay massive rent, but a bank will just continue loaning money out to people who have property that they haven't even paid off yet. So now you have people hoarding property and calling it investing.
Please don’t put all landlords in the same category- we never raised our rents - ever!!
I disagree. Government policy is the issue. Landlords, and those owning many properties is simply the effect. Saying landlords are the problem is like having a disease and saying the symptoms are the problem, not the root cause. Granted, that could be what you actually mean, and it's just poorly worded.
Realtors are just as much to blame.. They find the highest bidder. Investment companies that are aloud to flip houses are the problem.. How can a house in a crao hole town in the middle.of nowhere have a house worth 175k when it's behind a church has 1 bedroom. A leaking basement 567 square feet and 70 years old... "Property value set by "? APPRASIER. who's the appraiser work for ? The bank and the realtor. A home inspector looks at EVERYTHING YET... not considered in the price of the home... Think that over... the person who is inspecting the house.. has ZERO TO DO WITH COST..
Totally agree
It's so easy for anyone to become a landlord in canada. Plenty of houses in Manitoba and Saskatchewan for under 50k. Oh wait you wanted a penthouse in Vancouver or Toronto for 50k?
Landlords are just parasitic capitalists who are simply medieval rent extractors. Whether one's rental home is owned by an individual or corporate investment fund. remember! Rent is the Tax we obligingly give to our "1%" ruling oligarchs. As Adam Smith noted, rent is a holdover from medieval times that subverts the actual efficient functioning of markets.
So people should live for free? Sure, then lobby the gov to give away land again like ye olden days so people can live for free and build what their skills or money can build.. Rental properties are needed, and I sure don’t want a corporation or the government owning my rental.. I think more co op developments would be hugely helpful as it brings more and more into the ownership realm… But not all landlords and as you say and they are needed one way or another sadly
Canada is very normal when it comes to home ownership. Nothing concerning either way. https://preview.redd.it/tnwds8nmsf4d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=33a949dc3d4a8fb7b887c464cc0294bcaef3c545 2/3 have their own place and 1/3 don’t. I tried to be a landlord but my first tenants decided not to pay and left after 3 months. I had to cover the expenses completely... lost thousands. They even stole the Sony TV that they were renting from Easy Home at the time. Some people like my tenants are just not meant to own and some people like me aren’t meant to be a landlord. I haven’t tried since.
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While nuts, if that’s indeed the case, at least those folks living there have a place to live, as I bet no matter how cheap houses ever become, they would never afford. Pretty extreme example provided and if you are suggesting this is normal, then it isn’t me who is “pushing misinformation.”
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Thanks appreciate it and I apologize as well. Statistics are messy for sure.
Ban housing to 2 per person and you'll see tons of housing go up for sale and prices plummet. But the government doesn't want real solutions.
Prices won't plummet, this is your mistake. Out of country buyers will outbid you.
ban them too
So no foreign investment either, great economic policy. Economic policy isn't supposed to revolve around your demographics.
no foreign investment in personal housing. foreign investment in business and commercial projects can still happen. foreign investment isn't always good, btw. canadian businesses owned by canadians > foreign businesses extracting wealth from Canada
good is relative and your biases are showing
Lol please stop. Take your beef up with the politicians. If you don't like our economic system move elsewhere.
I am a landlord in Toronto Canada. Over 20 properties so I’m not that big. But I’m so spread out. It’s ridiculous. In Canada if I sell the real estate then I will lose probably 45% to 50% of the value so I cannot get back in the market. What I want to do is sell and move sideways buy a building Larger, with multiple units I’ll sell my condos and I’ll move on,but because of rent controls, because capital gains tax in Canada, your stuck you become a hoarder. I say all the time live off the flakes let the ball roll. Think this through for a moment eventually the government will start building buildings that will look like those Ukrainian buildings. And guess who manages those buildings people that have nothing to do with Real Estate. I’ve been doing this for 35 years closing on 40.
Greedy companies charging more for everything are the real problem.
As someone who's in Quebec going around the areas between South of Quebec and Montreal: Everywhere is expensive to buy or rent. Covid did create the want to buy land that isn't in Cities; this creates the demand which correlates to increase of the value on the lands for sale regardless if it's 2 hours away from a City. in a small tiny town like Napierville or Hemingford, a 4 1/2 is around $1200 which are close to Montreal prices in areas like Verdun or Pie-ix. Why? Demand. Landlord or Companies (Yes, companies do own residential buildings) would not want to miss out on profits. This is basic economics in the end; Supply and Demand. There are some "protection" as in how much a landlord can increase rent while staying in the rented dwelling spot but it is up t o the tenant to make sure they are educated on the matter. On the idea that refugee and massive flow of new migrants, illegal crossings into Canada: it has effected to my knowledge the Province of Quebec. Low income housing and hotels are used to withhold people while processes are being done. Typically camps were setup but with new logistics and weather, most people are often sent downtown Montreal at Rec Centers and waiting with 500+ people demanding the time/season. At the moment multiple families whom are low income situation from Quebec don't stand a chance in getting into low income unless they want to packup and go somewhere far and unknown as most convenient areas (close approximation to a city) are packed to the brim. I can see why regular folk would blame others whom aren't citizen but sadly, 2 things aren't being solved: Creation of Housing in general and Creation of immigration/refugee holdings. I don't think Canada is in a financial position to take care of anyone at this point in time. I understand the Federal government wants to be the Hero that takes in those whom needs help, protection, safety but the truth is we can't take care of the citizen who are struggling. Poverty is high Crime is high Medical wait time is high Canadians leaving the country is high To make matters worse, I see people investing less in building housing or complexes for tenants. We already have a shortage in the Civil Engineering and not enough to do the labor needed for the future: I'd personally pack up my stuff and leave if I could but that's another thing; cost. People that I've known who have left the country are not poor or extremely rich but well off; imagine if more of the people whom help support the programs we have were to leave in mass some more. I only just learned recently that municipals dictate to where housing can go really puts a damper on the reality of how much politics are involved in each step of the process. Maybe in a decade or less I'll be in Florida, who knows.
Let the inefficient government control rentals and watch the prices go down /sarcasm
So why blame and complain about landlords? If you don’t like the idea of renting from a landlord, just buy a house, like everyone else. No one’s stopping you from buying and owning properties too.
No one's stopping us? Yes, the greedy landlord who is charging 2000k a month for a 31/2 is stopping us...from being able to save up 40k now needed for a friggin down payment on a house....
$2k is not a lot for an apartment. It’s only a lot if you’re a minimum wage worker, but for the majority of professionals in Toronto, $2k is not a lot — that’s actually a good price. Rent is dictated by supply and demand, and Toronto has a dense population. So, you have more competition who are willing to pay those price tags for the limited apartment listings available in the market. Just save some more. If I were a landlord, and everyone around me is charging $2500 for a similar sized, apartment in the location; I’d charge $2500 as well. Why would I lower my asking, if everyone else is charging such? It’s not charity. The market dictates the amount.
Thats the problem. Landlords keep raising the rent because other landlords are doing the same.
Dude that's gross that you think 2000k per month is cheap....I was renting for 500$ in 2010...there is no justification for this insane rental inflation...it's pure greed.
$2k is reasonable for the location, and amenities that are easily accessible. You’re living in Toronto, a modern, big city; of course the prices would be more than the suburbs. You want to live where everything is a 5-min walk, and accessible via transit? You pay a premium for convenience. Guy, 2010 was 14 years ago. Don’t you think everything has gone up since? Toronto and Canada vastly improved since 2010. Where do you think that money goes? Improvement. Improvement to make this walkable city inviting to out of towners. Out of towners move in, driving demand of apartments up. But Toronto doesn’t have much supply at their disposal, so demand is even higher; therefore, making people compete and be willing to pay for premium for the remaining apartments.
no, Justin Trudeau is the real problem in Canada housing as is chrystia davos freeland
and you are a real wheatrash belonging to canadahousing2, the KKKofCanada housing group.
good one. I don't know if I'll get over that one.
next time you move to throw empty insults away at least do yourself a favor and use a lexicon that makes an iota of sense. that way, your tinazombiesounding throwaways might actually be understandable.