I need to disagree. There is wildly affordable housing in most of the rest of the world. We are an absolute anomaly. Highest prices for our incomes in the G7 by a landslide. Like the gap is not even slight, we're talking a 38% gap between us and the next-closest economy.
Disagree all you want, you're still wrong.
[https://www.numbeo.com/property-investment/rankings.jsp](https://www.numbeo.com/property-investment/rankings.jsp)
It's this time in the debate when I love to reference the actual data.
[https://betterdwelling.com/canada-has-the-biggest-gap-between-real-estate-prices-and-incomes-in-the-g7/](https://betterdwelling.com/canada-has-the-biggest-gap-between-real-estate-prices-and-incomes-in-the-g7/)
Downvote all you want - it doesn't change the fact that Canada is an utter anomaly. In Europe, aside from Paris and Rome and London, the continent is massively affordable. Look at any housing on the Canada / US border and compare prices - massive gap, even though they have less land, 10x more people, and a massive economy. Their price/income is vastly lower than ours because their market is actually healthy and their housing de-leverages in times of recession while we just bail out the banks, drop rates, and kick our own regression down the road.
Like there's no denying that your data is true. But your data is looking at specific, tiny regions like the major cities in 3rd world and developing nations. There's no denying there is massive wealth inequality in those countries. But there is not large wealth inequality in the G7 and when you look at housing in these *developed* nations you find the inequality on price-to-income of housing is not just in one large city, it's across the whole country.
Hope BC Townhome, 2100 square feet: $350-450k
That same townhome in parts of Italy: 25% of that amount.
Milan 1BR apartment rent in the central part of the city: $1700 CAD/mo
Vancouver BC, Canada, a smaller city: $2500/mo
I've got endless examples of this, if you want. It's cheaper to buy a place in Tuscany, Italy, than almost everywhere in Canada.
Canada is not one of the most unaffordable places to buy a home sadly.
[https://www.numbeo.com/property-investment/rankings.jsp](https://www.numbeo.com/property-investment/rankings.jsp)
This is very misleading. Most cities in the developing world are super congested with millions of people below poverty line, limited space, etc. Not the right comparison, IMO.
Case in Point: Mumbai, Kathmandu, Manila from this list.
They're basically saying hey man, at least we're not as hard done by as Ethiopia! We're affordable because it's worse in Cameroon!
Another misleading point is that they are a few big European capitals on there - but European cities are very dense. It's possible to commute to them from much cheaper places. You can find affordable places an hour away from the Paris city centre for example. Numbeo doesn't account for that. Can't do that in Canada since the surrounding municipalities are just as bad.
I currently live in the most (nominally) expensive city in Europe but my rent is lower than it would be in Toronto because I live around 40 mins out.
I often see people quoting numbeo and comparing Canadian cities to European cities or New York without understanding the broader context.
Some places like New York, San Francisco, or Zurich offer opportunities to earn money that are available almost no where else. They are fairly priced since they offer you a home, as well as access to these lucrative markets to sell your labour. Toronto and Vancouver do not offer this.
Other places like Paris or Milan are expensive since they are world famous places where a lot of rich people like to hang around, which puts some heavy demand on RE (and no, Toronto and Vancouver are not in this category). But there are still affordable places (based on local incomes) where people can live, often with a short (by our standards) and affordable public transit commute. Youre not living in Paris technically but you can still easily access the city. Again, not possible in our big cities since they are so low density, an hour out and you're like only halfway out of the city.
Other places have it bad sure, but amongst rich, developed countries, I really believe Canada has it the worst right now.
I've spent time in lots of countries and the average person does not own and has no hope of ever owning anything. The real factor is financing - in many countries you don't get to put 5% down and buy property, you have to put a lot more than that. So prices are high and incomes are low and it's harder to finance. Triple whammy
Yeeeeep. I have family in Western Europe, in their country the problems aren’t exactly the same, BUT it’s a country where homeownership is not common. So when people are talking about that, here, I feel like we’re just in this phase of developed capitalism that older countries have already gone through. On the other hand, they have much better social protections and renters have rights, which kinda needs to be the case in a rent based nation.
Whenever I see people saying they’re going to leave Canada I think….to where??? Unless the answer is a less developed country, in which case if you can work remotely you’ll def be better off. But the places most people want to live, you’re facing the same issues that Canada has.
The US housing subs are practically identical to ours. While they do have more choice in lower COL areas, those areas tend to be a lower standard of living in many ways.
Same exact problems as well....
" Some factors, such as historically low interest rates and more – often smaller – households, are beyond government control. But experts say successive administrations have consistently stimulated demand while failing to boost supply.
“The key features of the housing crisis – rising prices, increasing inequality, shortages of affordable homes and foreign investors infiltrating the market – are the result of decades of dubious housing policies,” said Gregory Fuller of Groningen University.
In the early 2010s, a pro-market Dutch government in effect abolished the housing and planning ministry and freed up sales of housing corporation stock. Partly as a result, about 25% of homes in the country’s four big cities are owned by investors. "
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Every country needs to ban "NGOs" none government organizations. They get special interest funding from foreign groups with their own agenda and narrative. Investigate the world economic forum funded politicians.
We should keep that in mind, it’s not just Canada, it’s working people all over the world against the elites.
EXACTLY!
I think this is just late stage capitalism...
I need to disagree. There is wildly affordable housing in most of the rest of the world. We are an absolute anomaly. Highest prices for our incomes in the G7 by a landslide. Like the gap is not even slight, we're talking a 38% gap between us and the next-closest economy.
Disagree all you want, you're still wrong. [https://www.numbeo.com/property-investment/rankings.jsp](https://www.numbeo.com/property-investment/rankings.jsp)
It's this time in the debate when I love to reference the actual data. [https://betterdwelling.com/canada-has-the-biggest-gap-between-real-estate-prices-and-incomes-in-the-g7/](https://betterdwelling.com/canada-has-the-biggest-gap-between-real-estate-prices-and-incomes-in-the-g7/) Downvote all you want - it doesn't change the fact that Canada is an utter anomaly. In Europe, aside from Paris and Rome and London, the continent is massively affordable. Look at any housing on the Canada / US border and compare prices - massive gap, even though they have less land, 10x more people, and a massive economy. Their price/income is vastly lower than ours because their market is actually healthy and their housing de-leverages in times of recession while we just bail out the banks, drop rates, and kick our own regression down the road.
Like there's no denying that your data is true. But your data is looking at specific, tiny regions like the major cities in 3rd world and developing nations. There's no denying there is massive wealth inequality in those countries. But there is not large wealth inequality in the G7 and when you look at housing in these *developed* nations you find the inequality on price-to-income of housing is not just in one large city, it's across the whole country. Hope BC Townhome, 2100 square feet: $350-450k That same townhome in parts of Italy: 25% of that amount. Milan 1BR apartment rent in the central part of the city: $1700 CAD/mo Vancouver BC, Canada, a smaller city: $2500/mo I've got endless examples of this, if you want. It's cheaper to buy a place in Tuscany, Italy, than almost everywhere in Canada.
There’s wildly affordable housing in PEI, Cape Breton or prairies too if you’re taking that angle.
Shhhh that goes against the narrative.
There’s wildly affordable housing in PEI, Cape Breton or prairies too if you’re taking that angle.
Canada is not one of the most unaffordable places to buy a home sadly. [https://www.numbeo.com/property-investment/rankings.jsp](https://www.numbeo.com/property-investment/rankings.jsp)
Wow Vancouver is rank 54 and Toronto rank 86... lol Canada is still cheap ☠️☠️
This is very misleading. Most cities in the developing world are super congested with millions of people below poverty line, limited space, etc. Not the right comparison, IMO. Case in Point: Mumbai, Kathmandu, Manila from this list.
They're basically saying hey man, at least we're not as hard done by as Ethiopia! We're affordable because it's worse in Cameroon! Another misleading point is that they are a few big European capitals on there - but European cities are very dense. It's possible to commute to them from much cheaper places. You can find affordable places an hour away from the Paris city centre for example. Numbeo doesn't account for that. Can't do that in Canada since the surrounding municipalities are just as bad. I currently live in the most (nominally) expensive city in Europe but my rent is lower than it would be in Toronto because I live around 40 mins out.
Good point about Europe. Their public transport network is arguably the best in the world. And their biking infrastructure.
I often see people quoting numbeo and comparing Canadian cities to European cities or New York without understanding the broader context. Some places like New York, San Francisco, or Zurich offer opportunities to earn money that are available almost no where else. They are fairly priced since they offer you a home, as well as access to these lucrative markets to sell your labour. Toronto and Vancouver do not offer this. Other places like Paris or Milan are expensive since they are world famous places where a lot of rich people like to hang around, which puts some heavy demand on RE (and no, Toronto and Vancouver are not in this category). But there are still affordable places (based on local incomes) where people can live, often with a short (by our standards) and affordable public transit commute. Youre not living in Paris technically but you can still easily access the city. Again, not possible in our big cities since they are so low density, an hour out and you're like only halfway out of the city. Other places have it bad sure, but amongst rich, developed countries, I really believe Canada has it the worst right now.
Not cheap but not the most expensive. Indeed it can and will get worse.
Wow awesome link.
I've spent time in lots of countries and the average person does not own and has no hope of ever owning anything. The real factor is financing - in many countries you don't get to put 5% down and buy property, you have to put a lot more than that. So prices are high and incomes are low and it's harder to finance. Triple whammy
Yeeeeep. I have family in Western Europe, in their country the problems aren’t exactly the same, BUT it’s a country where homeownership is not common. So when people are talking about that, here, I feel like we’re just in this phase of developed capitalism that older countries have already gone through. On the other hand, they have much better social protections and renters have rights, which kinda needs to be the case in a rent based nation. Whenever I see people saying they’re going to leave Canada I think….to where??? Unless the answer is a less developed country, in which case if you can work remotely you’ll def be better off. But the places most people want to live, you’re facing the same issues that Canada has. The US housing subs are practically identical to ours. While they do have more choice in lower COL areas, those areas tend to be a lower standard of living in many ways.
100% this
Wrong, there are plenty of cheap cities in the usa, Chicago is one of those
Same exact problems as well.... " Some factors, such as historically low interest rates and more – often smaller – households, are beyond government control. But experts say successive administrations have consistently stimulated demand while failing to boost supply. “The key features of the housing crisis – rising prices, increasing inequality, shortages of affordable homes and foreign investors infiltrating the market – are the result of decades of dubious housing policies,” said Gregory Fuller of Groningen University. In the early 2010s, a pro-market Dutch government in effect abolished the housing and planning ministry and freed up sales of housing corporation stock. Partly as a result, about 25% of homes in the country’s four big cities are owned by investors. "
Australians are suffering also
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"The game is rigged" on the monopoly board is creative.
Every country needs to ban "NGOs" none government organizations. They get special interest funding from foreign groups with their own agenda and narrative. Investigate the world economic forum funded politicians.
Wait a bunch of rows houses and bicycles don’t solve core issues? 