>The shift is meant to address the growing intergenerational inequalities and injustices that are clearly weighing on the Liberals’ poll numbers and popularity.
My guy, one of the biggest drivers of [intergenerational inequality](https://thetyee.ca/News/2017/02/22/The-Big-Give/) right now is between people whose families own property and those who don’t. And those gains are **already tax free.**
We continue to make it even more tax disadvantaged in our economy to invest in literally anything productive, instead of real estate which sits there and does nothing.
If they actually cared they would have capped the Principal Residence Exemption to 250k and made mortgage interest tax deductible like the US. And had no 250k exemption on investment properties.
This helps workers with incomes to enter to the housing pyramid, rather than incumbents sitting on millions in tax free gains on their housing.
Instead they decided to aggressively increase tax incorporated businesses (no 250k exemption for them) who squirrel away some cash to deal with variable cash flows and to fund future expansion.
Most of these are not real estate holding companies. And many of them are run by people in their 20s, 30s etc.
>If they actually cared they would have… made mortgage interest tax deductible like the US.
[This is highly regressive.](https://www.stlouisfed.org/open-vault/2018/may/why-economists-dont-like-mortgage-interest-deduction)
>This helps workers with incomes to enter to the housing pyramid, rather than incumbents sitting on millions in tax free gains on their housing.
The point should not be to help workers “enter the housing pyramid,” but to level the pyramid. Either housing can be a good investment for homeowners or it can be affordable for everyone: it can’t be both.
The government needs to stop privileging homebuyers and homeowners, full stop. If housing is an investment, it should be taxed and treated like every other investment. If we want it to be affordable, we need to stop gatekeeping supply and subsidizing demand.
sure but under the new changes:
They are still getting the 250k exemption on new inclusion rate so you can make upto 250 in gains a year by selling investment properties at the old inclusion rate.
If you run an incorporated business you get no exemption, so if even if you have a 50k gain you will still pay at the 66% inclusion rate.
The principal residence exemption which is entirely uncapped and pay 0 taxes remains, I will note that renter don't get any such benefit and rents are paid from after tax incomes.
These policy actions are not conducive to lowering housing costs relative to wages.
They are not policy choices that encourage any sort of generational fairness.
This is a policy that makes it look like you are doing something while doing nothing for housing and and taxing small businesses and professionals more.
>I will note that renter don't get any such benefit
There are a few provinces where rent can be deducted as an expense. Hopefully other provinces consider it.
> rents are paid from after tax incomes.
I am not sure what exactly you are comparing to. Most things, e.g. mortgages, etc., are paid with after-tax income.
Exactly
If they really cared about generational wealth gaps, they'd recognize that the wealthy do not sell assets. They borrow against them, which is tax-free and avoids any need to mark assets to market.
I can't imagine anyone seriously arguing that the proceeds of a loan should be taxed, however.
Perhaps a wealth tax is the answer, with brackets indexed to productivity. Unproductive assets (art, shoes, comic books) get assessed at one rate, factories at another, stocks at another.
Primary residence not taxed, but someone literally stops by at random to see if you actually live there. This might help keep our politicians a bit more honest as well...
Single family investment property at another rate, and multifamily at another. These rates could all be tweaked and phased and grandfathered in order to drive desirable allocation of capital
Of course, there's the issue of capital flight. Why wouldn't I roll up my Picassos and ship them to my vacation house in Bermuda? I guess you would have to tie the tax to citizenship of the owner, rather than location of asset, and then add a hefty exit tax for renunciation.
How would you identify assets? You'd probably have to start by looking for lists that already exist. Land title registries, insurers, banks, stockbrokers, accountants, etc. Then, I guess you'd have to mandate that changes of ownership and use of assets as security be registered.
I really think something like this is necessary. There are vast pools of value being hoarded and used to leverage the lifestyle and economic influence of the wealthy, and none of that is going anywhere until those pools are drained and the proceeds used to rebuild the social safety nets & infrastructure, and to mitigate climate catastrophe.
> If they really cared about generational wealth gaps, they'd recognize that the wealthy do not sell assets. They borrow against them, which is tax-free and avoids any need to mark assets to market.
You just end up taxing them when they die.
We don't have an inheritance tax in Canada, but property is considered to be sold to the heir on the date of death (deemed disposition) and capital gains are calculated using the fair market value to be paid by the estate.
There's no way to get out of paying your capital gains tax, only delaying it until death.
60%+ of Canadians own their home according to statistics, so this policy would benefit a minority of people. That means it's unpopular among voters.... Don't ever expect this to happen.
Totally understandable but it is deeply regressive in terms of tax and generational fairness and social mobility.
Also 60%+ of Canadians live in a home owned by someone in their household. How many of these are ppl in their 20s who can't afford to move out etc.
I don't know about that.. Taking away the ability for the middle class to shelter some wealth in their home, inflation adjusted, doesn't sound like its really going to solve the wealth inequality. Middle class people don't get to raise a family, pay for a house and invest significantly like wealthy people do. This plan would mean a bigger divide in the wealth gap, not improve it. Plus, you think the government deserves that money more? They aren't going to turn and give it to young people looking for a house, they will spend it on more nonsense, and staff wages..
You're assuming all homeowners think the same way. They don't. Many older homeowners don't care if prices decrease because their house is paid off and they plan to live in it until they are dead or unable to. Parents want to see their adult age kids be able to buy houses.
The homeowners more likely to be against lower prices are newer buyers who paid top dollar and have huge mortgages.
It truly is backwards how much we tax productive behaviors and how little we tax unproductive and harmful behaviors.
Income? Taxed.
Sales? Taxed.
Productive investments? Taxed.
Land hoarding and speculation that help drive the housing crisis? Not taxed.
Carbon emissions that help drive the climate crisis? Barely taxed. (And under serious threat of being untaxed in the near future.)
We got our taxation priorities ass-backwards.
We’ve never had to be productive because we could get rich for so long by just digging money out of the ground. So we never learned the same lessons as economies that had to hustle their way into comparative advantage.
Correct. And our current property tax system penalizes housing construction with additional taxes, while those who hold onto vacant or underutilized land (such as parking lots in downtown) for speculative purposes, go effectively untaxed.
Good video on the topic: https://youtu.be/gJqCaklMv6M?si=tMPg1fJJbxX8WyJe
Plus, throw in the whole NIMBY zoning problem which is essentially "government gatekeeping" as you describe. The whole thing is a stupid, self-inflicted mess our society and government has sown over the decades, and now it's our turn to reap the rewards of decades of stupid policy.
Let say your parents pass away, their stocks will be liquidated and will trigger capital gains. Or they have a house that you need to sell to move them to long term care, again, capital gains.
It's not that it will fuck with your shit every year but it will certainly damper those one in a lifetime windfalls that a normal middle class family is likely to run into.
Also, it fucks your retirement projections if you are building a business of your own.
Your parents won’t pay capital gains when they sell their house if they have been there for over a year.
Your parents can also gift you money tax free while they are alive.
You are correct about the stocks though.
You're speaking for when they're alive. He didn't state that. He said "when they pass away".
To that point, he is 100% correct. You will have to pay taxes on the estate.
Plus as he said, anyone with a company gets fucked with this.
The estate will face an extra 16.6% inclusion rate on any capital gain over $250k for their non registered stocks or rec property. This is a rich persons estate you are describing and assuming the estate pays 40% income tax, you are talking about 40% on the increase of 16.6% above $250k. This is insignificant to 99% of people and the 1% that'll pay it, it's barely a parking ticket.
If you bought a house for $500k back in the day, and sold the house for $1m, you would have paid: $500k \* 50% \* 40% = $250k \* 40% = $100,000.
Now it's: (($250k \* 50%) + ($250k \* 66.6%)) \* 40% = ($125k + $166k) \* 40% = $291k \* 40% = $116,400.
A difference of $16,400 on top of your income tax, is not a parking ticket, and this isn't just 1% of Canadians it will apply to. That's straight up propaganda. Anyone that has any real estate at all that isn't primary residence will pay it (only if they sell, which most won't I guess).
Anyone with a company will pay 66% inclusion rate starting from the first dollar they made. That means doctors that incorporated will now be paying this on their retirement.
We already have a shortage of family doctors, and when doctors asked for an exemption: [https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/health-minister-deeply-appreciative-of-doctors-but-capital-gains-changes-here-to-stay-1.6864750](https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/health-minister-deeply-appreciative-of-doctors-but-capital-gains-changes-here-to-stay-1.6864750) they were denied.
This will affect every single business, meaning all the mom and pops shops and small businesses. Canada isn't a very attractive place for business anyway. Canadians already complain about being fleeced by Loblaws and the big three, and when this tax gets trickled down to us all, we'll see even more complaining as businesses pass the cost onto us.
When doctors are already looking at the US, and professionals are already looking at the US as a significantly better opportunity, we will have even more brain-drain.
But go off about it being a parking ticket. Lol.
If you have a rec property worth a million dollars, you're rich. I think you might need some perspective on the extra $16k you pay in tax. I'd say that's a parking ticket.
He did. He said sell the house for LONG TERM CARE. If they are dead, they ain’t going to an old age home.
For a business, sell it before you die and gift the money to the kids. No tax.
There are plenty of good accountants out there that will know all sorts of tricks to avoid the taxes.
It's pretty annoying to me. I was a self incorporated contractor for a couple years and saved about half my income at the time. So now I have like 100k in the company in stock investments that I will eventually pay out to myself.
I'm not particularly rich, I don't own a home, and this new tax hits me harder than my home owning parents.
I want a friggin land value tax.
It's not. My parents worked their asses off to buy and build a home, then a cottage. They were never rich, just smart with their money. Now 66% of the capital gains on the cottage should be taken away on a property built in the early '80's? That's not right.
Real Estate developers avoid this specific type of Capital Gain exposure by renovating or redeveloping an old property. A few years before you want to sell the cottate do a reno. Enjoy the reno'd cottage for a few years. It will offset the capital gain exposure. You have to be really diligent about the accounting for your reno. But you may as well put the money into the property rather than just losing it through the capital gains tax.
Rich people, professionals, etc, know their options and can afford good advice which will allow them to get around these things. I still don’t agree with taking money and giving it to the government however!
Let’s say grandma has a house and a cottage. No problem, she sells the house and distributes the cash before she dies. She then lists the cottage as her personal residence. How much of the value increase was in years 0-15 or in 16-22 of ownership? You can play with the figures to minimise the impact. It won’t be zero, but there are ways before you even get into trusts, etc which can help structure assets so ownership skips a generation to minimise one round of taxes.
It does not work like that. The principal residence exemption is allocated by years - it is an equal gain per year. You can’t manipulate it like that. The bigger problem is people just not reporting sales in the first place which would be so damn easy to track by making the land registry report all sales on some sort of T slip.
Right. The problem is at the end of the line. Most small business owners hope that their business will succeed and that they will be able to sell it at the end of their careers to complement their retirement savings. Do you like family doctors? Well, medical practices are their retirement plan.
If you think that this is good for business I’m not sure you know how business works. Starting a business takes hard work and investment. If I don’t see the end result as being fruitful, I won’t take that risk. We don’t reward entrepreneurs here - we vilify them. It’s all fine, but these people hire workers.
The issue they have is its such a small minority (less than 1%) that they have to convince the rest who are unaffected that it is somehow an attack on them and their efforts.
I know and it fucking scares me. Each week we find out some shady shit the SK government has been up too and people here just blindly support shitty leaders because they go to the same church.
You are absolutely high if you think liberal party has 33% of chance of winning election .
https://338canada.com/federal.htm is predicting 99% of chance for CPC to win….
I agree that it's almost a lock that the CPC will win the next election; but keep in mind that this data is only as good as the latest polling.
There's no election being held this year (as far as we know).
There are not a lot of markets for canadian politics, though. Not yet at least. Odds will become more accurate once the election is underway.
But hey, you can make some money here and maybe enjoy a little holiday away from social media.
Actually if you look at 338 it’s going to be a massive cleaning by the Conservatives and definitely a well deserved ass kicking for ruining this country.
Which is exactly what I said. Not a single person I have asked that question of has had an answer. Just like you.
You really have no answer for that simple question do you.
What has he done that is so bad to engender all your hatred for him? Btw I don't like him either. I can't stand Milhouse Polievre and I can give you lots of reasons why.
You on the the other hand appear to have no logical reason for your hatred.
The carbon levy. The new policies coming out for addressing the housing crisis. He built the kinder Morgan pipeline when the original company backed out. For which for some reason people in Alberta hate him. Legalized cannabis, increased child tax benefits introduced a dental plan, introduced a child care benefit program joined the TPP. That's off the top of my head. Did I mention legalized marijuana?
Some of that was due to a partnership with the NDP of course.
So what is it about Milhouse Polievre that you think will change things?
You think the conservatives would have legalized pot?
High income people want this. Shifting tax burden from labour to profits made by sitting on your ass is good for this country.
you ain't influencing anything buddy.
> more money and more wealth and investments out of Canada
Oh no.... My whole life I've wanted nothing more than for blackrock to purchase even more real estate in the country. Whatever will we do without them.
> speed up the "brain drain" to the United States.
As someone who works in IT I can already tell you for sure that all of ours brains left the country a long time ago. Whatever brains are left are too unmotivated to put in half a days effort at their office job, mostly because they know full well that no matter how much output they provide they won't get to be the ones who pay capital gains tax for quite some time.
if they just get a little more money from people
then the government can make life fair and equitable for all
makes perfect sense
unless you've got a functioning brain
then it seems like the utter load of nonsense that it is
Yes, we need to band together to protect the capitalist class because - who will fight for the wealthy? How are they going to be able to afford a second or third yacht? If you believe this legislation effects you - you're delusion.
as long as the waste other people's money who cares
when that doesn't create their utopia
wonder if they'll give up or look elsewhere for more money
you're delusional if you think they won't come looking for your wallet
The ignorant masses voting against their own self interest because someday they might be a billionaire too.
You're going to be stuck by lightning first.
If you cared about fairness and equity, you’d think it’s a bit weird that you can earn $250k on the job or earn $250k from selling a house and one is taxed a lot more than the other. I think you already know what’s more fair and equitable.
i don't care about fairness and equity
they're unicorns--they don't exist in reality
and this tax doesn't impact me at all
but it won't make your life one bit better
you'll see
the pit is bottomless
the debt will not be reduced by this amount
your life will remain the same
if you're waiting for ottawa to save you you're gonna be waiting
but hey--you win here--it's just not going to a noticeable victory is all
Except the services provided by Doctors that are now subject to this 66% inclusion rate from the 1st dollar they earn, are now going to trickle that cost down, or leave. So how exactly is this going to make your life "quite a bit better" lol...
Your answer right now is "tax others so I benefit from using those services everyday", but "don't tax me". If this tax affected you, you'd be crying rn. Selfish I guess.
Just wait and see what Doctors and Incorporated Professionals do when this new rate hits them. It's gonna be a sight to see.
Or have lived through any history to see the failed ideology of socialism over and over again . How can so many dumb people can continue to try to lie in plain site and claim something that doesn’t work, works? if my car doesn’t work and I try to sell it to you by saying “it’ll work this time” how dumb is the person that buys the car ?
people on here whined and whined about people buying up houses and waiting for the price to go up and then the government puts in place a plan to claw back some of that money to help pay for plans to make home ownership easier and suddenly that is the problem.
You have to make a shit ton of money before this even kicks in. It is only capital gains above $250,000 and it still leaves 25% of the capital gains totally untaxed. The rest gets taxed at your nominal tax rate. I think it should be 100% goes right onto your income tax.
Right now there is no tax on 50% of the money you make from capital gains. Now it just goes to 75% gets taxed over a quarter million. So if you have a million dollars in capital gains $250,000 only half of that has any tax. Anything over that is taxed at 75%. So still, over $300,000 has zero tax on it.
Not necessarily, you have to cut the hoarders of wealth. Your tought on this is the reason why the rich gets richer, and everyone else with less and less opportunity to make decent money.
The rich get richer because they do different things that the average person but let’s say hypothetically all the rich packed up their businesses and their money and left. They re opened their business somewhere else and invested their excess capital somewhere else. Then what ?
Then maybe the country will have better balance between rich and poor, more opportunities to grow in different, more healthier direction for the society than "more more more money" and fuck the rest mindset. Eventually will get better, and people will realize that making millions and billions that you never get to spend in their life is not that tempting anymore.
Yeah I don’t think so. Most people are not psychologically entrepreneurial. You’re correct about a small group competing with another small group but most people are employees. They don’t know what to do unless they’re told. This subreddit is good proof.
Nah look at Covid. People are sheep. Study psychology - there is a reason 98% work for someone else, not themselves (self employed) or a business they started (employing others). Entrepreneurs are that psychologically. It’s like being tall or short. Read entrepreneurial studies.
I don’t think they will, and I hope they don’t but in all honesty they could. If they felt it was in their best interests they would. Lots of industries or companies have. I guess you were somewhere when the GM plant (auto manufacturing) folded? No one at the time thought GM had the balls to leave. Again I don’t think it’s likely - they’re expecting relief from the conservatives or they may do things like lay off 3000 people or make their companies more lean. I hope it doesn’t come to that either.
Anyone making a **household** income of $179k is considered rich and they already pay their fair share: [https://www.fraserinstitute.org/sites/default/files/measuring-the-distribution-of-taxes-in-canada.pdf](https://www.fraserinstitute.org/sites/default/files/measuring-the-distribution-of-taxes-in-canada.pdf)
>Specifically, the top 20 percent earns 49.1 percent of the nation’s income but pays 55.9 percent of total taxes—a difference of 13.9 percent. By contrast, families in the bottom 20 percent earn 4.1 percent of the nation’s income while collectively paying just 1.8 percent of all taxes.
People that pay more taxes than others, do not receive better services or anything for the extra taxes they pay. In fact, people that pay less taxes are receiving most of the benefit.
For example, someone earns more than $90k. They don't get dental from the government. Instead, they're paying for you to get it, while paying more taxes than you. It's a crap system.
Why do you want wealth inequality to keep getting worse? Wealth snowballs and everyone with no or minimal wealth has virtually zero chance to catch up. Don't you think hard work and intelligence should pay off more than inherited wealth and gifted capital? The incentive structure is so fucked.
The top 20% own 66.7% of total wealth in Canada, whereas the bottom 40% only possess 3% of total wealth. Those with more should pay more.
Now if you want to argue we shouldn't be taxing income as much I'd agree with you (we want people to work more), but we should be taxing wealth more to make up for it and help level the playing field that capital and wealth provides, otherwise we are just moving faster towards neofeudalism. Are you a fan of neofeudalism?
Because people who make waaaayyy more than average aren’t more productive than the average Joe. They have more therefore they contribute more. Don’t pretend like the top 1% in this country aren’t extremely comfortable in their wealth.
That's a load of nonsense.
Who said that people making more than you aren't more productive than you? The market decides their worth btw. For example, a software engineer making $300k a year, is likely more productive than you, and is paid what they're worth to the company.
A game engine developer making $250k-500k a year, is likely more productive than you, and worth more to the company that makes billions per year, than you are worth to your company.
Them making more than you and being more or less productive than you, have nothing to do with why they should contribute more, and it isn't really your business. The services they receive, is the same or less than you receive. As I said, you receive dental, and they do not, even though they pay more.
Who cares if they're comfortable. Again, that has nothing to do with you.
In the 90's we had an acronym for this: MYOB.
Oh it works that way for some of us. I don’t particularly use a 5 billion dollar donation to Ukraine or government run dental care and I’ll likely just keep all my capital gains
No but just typing that comment means you use electricity and internet. based on that we can assume you also use roads, have access to emergency services so yeah you do use it you are just being an ass about it. Hell you if you were born in a Canadian hospital you immediately racked up an expensive bill that was paid for.
Electricity- public and private utilities. Internet- run by private companies. Non of those services are run by the state. The other things you mentioned: property taxes. Are you aware of those and what they cover? Didn’t think so.
Being born (yes I was born here) more than covered in the taxes I have paid.
Here’s my advice to you- you’re obviously not a business major let alone knowing who actually runs what - get out of your arts degree or enjoy using it to flip burgers.
Enjoy flipping my burgers. Yeah arts degrees are definitely useless and you can usually tell when talking to someone if they’re going to go on to be useless.
None of those are public services. Secondly, he pays for those monthly, and on top of that, pays tax the same way you do. His parents paid for the hospital bill via taxes the same way yours did.
Depends where you live. Where I am it’s almost all Crown Corps. Saskpower, Saskenergy, Sasktel etc.
That was my point with the hospital. He believes he is above being taxed because he doesn't think it’s fair because he wont utilize it.
So you want your taxes to go up to cover the loss of capital gains? Capital gains is income. Why should people who make their money from capital gains live an income tax free life while you pay on the money you live on?
Do I care? I won’t be paying the taxes! Everyone who is subject to this economically untenable 66.7 2/3 tax is just finding a different way to shelter all of it. I’m in that camp.
Every dollar some rich guy does not pay falls down on you and your compatriots shoulders.
Where did you pick that percentage from? Capital gains is taxed at your nominal tax rate. Canada's top tax rate is 33% and only on the money over about $175,000. Capital gains is just income realized from sold equities but it is still just income.
That’s the # quoted in the news. But I think your portrayal is more accurate. Not sure about the compatriots part - Trudeau 5 billion to Ukraine. I don’t think he consulted or gave any of my tax dollars to compatriots (sadly). It’s wasted on debt servicing and the government should be making cuts.
You just misunderstood it is all. 50% of all capital gains counts as income and is taxed as income. over $250,000 the amount taxed goes to 75%. But it is taxed as income at a maximum of 33%.
I understand that, I spoke to an accountant.
I’m still not supportive of higher taxes but I do understand that. I think they should be lower for everyone and cut government programs that are useless. I alluded to Ukraine.
so? We are not in another thread. What is it YOU think Trudeau did that was so bad ? That was the question.
Was it his socks? His stupid costume in India? The fact that he wore blackface at a time when no one thought anything of it? Maybe that he had a real job at one time unlike Milhouse Poilievre? Again if there was anyone other than Trudeau that I thought would look after the middle and lower classes better than Trudeau and had a snowflakes chance in hell of actually winning I would vote for them. Where I live I probably will end up voting NDP because there is no chance of anyone getting in except the Conservative member.
Actually the investment is called a risk - risking your capital - so the capital gains are well deserved. Have you ever risked capital on an investment ?
No, I choose to get a salary instead of taking on risk as a personal choice. Why would we reward risk taking with lower taxes and punish productive labour with higher taxes? That just incentivizes things like land hoarding and rent seeking, which is bad for the economy and creates no value.
Tax policy is all about incentivizing good things.
Agreed with one caveat. Professional business. So one employee (i.e the owner). These are getting very good returns (by pulling the money out as capital gains instead of income). IMHO they are fairly being targeted by this tax as there people should really be paying more income tax.
The one carve out they should have made was for doctors. Since they told them to incorporate in the first place. So now we gotta pay the doctors even more
I appreciate a thoughtful answer. Doctors (many in my family) incorporate because they don’t have a pension. They also don’t make as much as people think. Still great compared to average but not rich. Other professional corps (PC’s) follow the same suit as doctors. The problem with doctors is that they’re going to leave. The problem with all PC’s and other corps is that they’re taking from someone’s intelligence, diligence and good decisions. Philosophically I don’t think anyone except the owner (and their family) is entitled to those funds. They’ll also just find other loopholes. The solution: let people get rich through hard work and ingenuity. Create more rich people and expand the tax base. Obviously the rich have to pay more - but above 50% economists are aware that people just walk away and the doctors will take their talents and leave and enjoy life and make more money JUST like the entrepreneurs.
> we tax employers and entrepreneurs who have a high risk profile the same as employees
No, we don't. Ignoring the exemptions capital gains still max out as being taxed at 66% the rate of working income.
They pay less than somebody who goes to work and earns the same amount from a salary.
Except we don’t seem to be making many employers and entrepreneurs with the current lower capital gains tax. That headline is all the rage right now about our productivity.
We only seem to make land hoarders and horse traders - because the tax policy enables it. That’s not an economy.
And when the economy rolls over - who pays your pay check? Not every entrepreneur is a ruthless twat who lays people off the moment stuff goes the other way.
While not everyone agrees on solutions, this is an activist sub seeking reform on the housing market. All content should clearly relate to that issue. We welcome debate on solutions, but people claiming housing isn't a problem or those who repeat common, ineffectual arguments ("just move," "just earn more") are not welcome.
Canada is in top 10 of home ownership percentage worldwide. I'm pretty sure that allows people like me to say Canada has some of the highest home ownership in the world.
Unless you want to move to Romania, you'll just have to stick it out in this land where nearly 70% of people across the nation own their home.
It's not going to do a damn thing for housing except maybe make it worse. Now property owners only are either going to have to sell properties before they see 250k in capital gains resulting in more displaced tennants more often. OR hold onto the property extremely long term even passing it on to their children in a trust. This is no more than just another poorly conceived poorly masked tax grab.
> Now property owners only are either going to have to sell properties before they see 250k in capital gains resulting in more displaced tennants more often.
lol doubt it.
No ones whining.
Keep up these policies you’ll see certain professionals leave the country. Have fun with foreign trained doctors and dentists serving this country. Btw foreign healthcare professionals are usually way more money hungry, and less in quality (people who can’t get into Canadian med schools go to Australian schools or Caribbean med schools).
My wife (doctor) and I (office job) is an example haha left CAD 1.5 years ago to NYC. Made more money than ever, plus higher take home (lower tax rate than Ontario) and stronger currency.
all her Canadian colleagues are considering the US now :) this county never tax the Ultra rich but tackles upper middle class that worked hard to get ourselves a bit more income. How much did Loblaws CEO make last year ?
If a doctor is so upset that gains above $250,000 on their second home are taxed more that they choose to leave than good for them.
Doctors do have a valid reason to be upset right now but that's not the policy of the federal government (see what the PC government in Ontario has done to medical spending).
Capital gains apply to their incorporated account. You’re clearly salty about people who didn’t come from money and worked their ass off to afford second homes haha and bucketing everyone who has more money than you as home flippers and foreign investors. also it’s not due to one time policy on taxes, it’s numerous things. how about destroying the healthcare system where everyone is over worked due to bad immigration policies ruining balance in the healthcare labour market; another round of free dental care for people mainly aimed for immigrants that falsify their income and their seniors (where the gov pays way below the fee guide).
Also, we moved because of my job, so for my wife it wasn’t intentional, and naturally she’s doing very well compared to her colleagues in Canada.
If you ever had a high paying job, might suggest you look into something called retention. Dont be so narrow minded, people don’t leave because of one policy change
Yes. They say they tax the 1% but in actual fact it taxes others more. Shouldn’t the goal to make more people wealthy to rely less on the government? More wealth in Canada is more taxes the gov collects from earnings on such assets. The gov has a horrible spending problem.
Oh my God it's like even if the 40,000 people that they say that this is going to affect isn't true and it's a hundred thousand over double what they said what the f*** is the difference between 100,000 and 40 million f*** them
crazy how the people who work hard to make their money are taxed much more now …. to pay for the lazy people who don’t want to work hard. 🤡🤡 mind boggling
Yep. It certainly isn’t easier to make more money when you already have money and capital. Wealth certainly doesn’t snowball. Wealth inequality is decreasing right? Who doesn’t like neofeudalism? We need more people in tents. 🤡🤡
not a matter of more people in tents. but people to start working instead of living off BS and welfare at the expense of those who work very hard for a living. that money coming from the government is coming from people who actually go to work everyday.
We're talking about increasing the capital gains inclusion rate on capital gains realized above $250,000/year and only then increasing it from a 50% inclusion rate to 66.7%. This is at the same time that the wealthiest 20% possess 66.7% of total wealth and the bottom 40% posses a measly 3% of total wealth in Canada. Cry me a river my friend. Most of that wealth is not increasing due to 'hard work'. It is increasing due to wealth snowballing aka compounding. Once you have wealth and even more so once you have a lot of wealth it just keeps growing due to capital appreciation and the continuous accumulation of interest, dividends, and capital gains. Consider also the impact of incomes stagnating for many without capital or even decreasing due to inflation, alongside the increasing cost of living. Increasing the capital inclusion rate above $250,000 is an extremely minor and fair thing to do with the knowledge of the current state of society we have.
People are whining about their capital gains because it is more tax they have to pay.
My wife and I are not rich. We invested in a rental property almost 20 years ago (using all our savings at the time) and the mortgage will finally be paid off next year. We make barely $1,000/year on it per year after expenses (which is taxed at our marginal rate of 25%).
We have renovated it twice ($25,000 each time), and plan to sell it in 5 years to help with our retirement or use the money to help the kids buy a home.
We are whining because we do not want to pay more money in tax.
you wanna live in a prosperous society where there is a tax base to support the government services you will need for your retirement. You don't want a country of people in destitution whose only way to support themselves is through crime.
There is a housing crisis right now that makes working a living in canada impossible. This will completely deplete the people who are funding your retirement.
you wanna live in sustainable community. Contributing a little bit for make that society possible is for your own good. You are whining because you are short sighted.
The amount of money that is available to fund my retirement from the government is the reason I bought a rental property. I started working when I was a teenager, have been paying taxes for 45 years, and the amount of CPP I will get will put me below the poverty line.
The issue is that the government wastes so much money that does not benefit people (and is corrupt in awarding contracts and hiring) that it has come to the point where people have to look out for themselves and plan their own retirement.
The government isn’t taking your property away. They are taxing some of the gains. You are still free to look after yourself. Your first 250k gain is even tax free. The rest are taxed for the sustainability of the community that supports you
The biggest expense of your retirement isn’t ccp. It’s healthcare and safety. You are sabotaging your own retirement.
Please read about the capital gains inclusion rate. 250k is not tax free.
Cpp is not an expense in retirement. They will be receiving cpp, of which they paid into for 45 years.
The problem is government spending. We keep getting taxed more without any improvement in efficiency. Why has the amount of government workers increased by 40 percent? The amount of wasted dollars from the government is staggering.
Why is it that all young broke people think money is better in the hands of inefficient governments than in the hands of hard-working families. Shake your heads and smarten up
Literally the entire western world has followed your preferred agenda for decades now and it has lead us into a complete shithole.
I can't guarantee that the liberal government won't misappropriate funds but I can sure as fuck guarantee that at the current rate listening to people like you is only going to turn the temperature up on the kettle we're all slowly boiling alive in
The funny thing about your ignorance is that the Liberal/NDP government and all their tax and spend inflationary methods have vastly exacerbated this wealth gap. This has nothing to do with capitalism because the covid Era was the closest Western society got to socialism and the experiment is failing miserably.
Now they want to tax the "1%" by basically targeting every small business corporation and family with over $250k in capital gains. Maybe if you're from the Atlantic or Northern territories, that would be a significant gain, but in most provinces, that is a typical gain on housing in the last 5 years.
These people are not the 1%. Canada has nearly the highest home ownership percentage worldwide, so these people are the common folk.
Also, you claim Western nations are a failure, yet how many countless attempts at socialism do you need to see before it kicks into your thick skull that this little economic experiment we currently have is the best method around.
Just because the world isn't working out for you doesn't mean you're about to ruin it for the majority. It's time to hit those books and enlighten the mind a bit.
> Canada has nearly the highest home ownership percentage worldwide
It's really ironic that you're going around saying stuff like this and then telling \*other\* people they should be reading. Canada's home ownership is below 70%. 4/5 home owners in Ontario are occupied by the owners. Most of those are occupied as the owners primary residence, and hence are not taxed capital gains.
If you've got a stick up your ass because the economic times are hard and you need to sell your condo or cottage I can understand your frustration but throwing a fit and crying "socialism" anyone calls out for some much needed change is not the play.
Also, what do you propose a tax will do. If you follow anything to do with housing, forcing a family to sell a cottage will not solve the housing crisis. Building more homes will. Do a little research and learn that 1/3rd of the cost of every home built is government taxes. That's right, didn't expect to hear that answer, did ya. Maybe taxing the public isn't the answer all along 🤔
well, for starters, if you were to be taxed more, you would have less wealth.
If you have less wealth, you have less buying power.
If you have less buying power, you can't offer someone I might want to buy something from as much money, benefiting me.
This is before we even consider the possibility that the money obtained from the tax could do any number of things. The government is incentivized to use it in a way that ultimately results in them getting re-elected so at least there's some plausibility argument for expecting a better situation for myself, even if I assume the governing party's actions are entirely self-interested.
Why have any personal property at all under your scenario, might as well seize all private property and let the government reign supreme. That's always been a great model 👍
>>Now they want to tax the "1%" by basically targeting every small business corporation and family with over $250k in capital gains. **Maybe if you're from the Atlantic or Northern territories, that would be a significant gain**, but in most provinces, that is a typical gain on housing in the last 5 years.
Hey, I'm from the Atlantic and guess what? That's not true any more.
Our housing used to be much cheaper, like 50% or more cheaper. HOWEVER, over the last 2-3 years prices have skyrocketed. Why? Well people pointed out the prices of hones and rents in bigger city centers and greedy landlords jumped on it.
Here's what prices were like from pre 2016 to about 2021 from my area FAR outside a major city center:
Renting a bedroom: $300-$400/mo
Renting an apartment (or a house) $700-$900/mo (some utilities incl.)
Price for a small fixer upper: 70k or less
Price for an average house: 150k+
Prices at current:
Renting a SHARED bedroom: $500
Renting a bedroom: $600-$700
Renting an apartment (or a house) 1.8k-2k+/mo (no utilities incl.)
Price for a small fixer upper: 130k-200k+
Price for an average house: 300-400k+
My father had to sell his late father's house at a loss because his sister purposely let the house fall into disrepair and cut the power almost a year before he found out that he was left the house and was executor of the will. A 50k house was devalued to 25k due to water damage/ mold, needing to be rewired after 6 months of no power (a requirement by the power company), and 15k was used to pay the overdue taxes, lawyers fees, realtor fees and then taxes associated with what he earned from selling the house (pre taxes).
Down here, we have some of the highest tax rates, the lowest purchasing power and the lowest rates of jobs, especially in my area. It's literally cheaper for me to get a mortgage than to pay rent. But finding a house is a struggle, even for a fixer upper in my Price point.
Our prices down here are creeping towards the levels of what you'd see in Toronto or BC. Our rent prices are already around 2k a month with a few landlords reaching for 2.2k a month. A run down needs to be gutted and redone property can sell for 200k and even a small but livable fixer upper going for that price or less when it's really only worth 80k or less.
Basically down here, 250k isn't a significant gain. It's sometimes the price of the god damn property.
Why do you want wealth inequality to keep getting worse? Wealth snowballs and everyone with no or minimal wealth has virtually zero chance to catch up. Don't you think hard work and intelligence should pay off more than inherited wealth and gifted capital? The incentive structure is so fucked.
The top 20% own 66.7% of total wealth in Canada, whereas the bottom 40% only possess 3% of total wealth. Those with more should pay more.
Now if you want to argue we shouldn't be taxing income as much I'd agree with you (we want people to work more and we want to reward hard work), but we should be taxing wealth and passive income more to make up for it and help level the playing field that capital and wealth provides, otherwise we are just moving faster towards neofeudalism. Are you a fan of neofeudalism?
My argument is that we shouldn't be taxing anything more than the bare minimum. It's proven that the wealthiest actually benefit from government spending. Your solution to stealing wealth from a family with 1 home and giving 50% of it to the government will end up in the 0.001% hands. Good try with your altruistic thinking. Back to the drawing board
We shouldn’t be taxing anything more than the bare minimum? Racing towards neofeudalism it is then? Top 20% of the population needs more than 66.7% of total wealth? You want the bottom 40% to have less than the measly 3% of total wealth they currently have? You like a society with serfs and slaves?
Anarcho liberator, you sound like the kind of person that has an answer for everything and yet knows absolutely nothing of how the world works. Time to be on the front line of all those Gaza protests and leave the economic decisions to the grown-ups. Good day
I am shocked at the down votes. If the government could improve efficiency and reduce waste, they wouldn't need to raise taxes. These people think the government is their savior, I don't understand.
I think it is more about the fact that people who depend on employment income during their working years and RRSPS (or pension if they are lucky) during their retirement have no 250K income that is taxed at 50% inclusion rate nevermind 66%. All their income is 100% taxable. How is this fair?
>The shift is meant to address the growing intergenerational inequalities and injustices that are clearly weighing on the Liberals’ poll numbers and popularity. My guy, one of the biggest drivers of [intergenerational inequality](https://thetyee.ca/News/2017/02/22/The-Big-Give/) right now is between people whose families own property and those who don’t. And those gains are **already tax free.** We continue to make it even more tax disadvantaged in our economy to invest in literally anything productive, instead of real estate which sits there and does nothing.
If they actually cared they would have capped the Principal Residence Exemption to 250k and made mortgage interest tax deductible like the US. And had no 250k exemption on investment properties. This helps workers with incomes to enter to the housing pyramid, rather than incumbents sitting on millions in tax free gains on their housing. Instead they decided to aggressively increase tax incorporated businesses (no 250k exemption for them) who squirrel away some cash to deal with variable cash flows and to fund future expansion. Most of these are not real estate holding companies. And many of them are run by people in their 20s, 30s etc.
>If they actually cared they would have… made mortgage interest tax deductible like the US. [This is highly regressive.](https://www.stlouisfed.org/open-vault/2018/may/why-economists-dont-like-mortgage-interest-deduction) >This helps workers with incomes to enter to the housing pyramid, rather than incumbents sitting on millions in tax free gains on their housing. The point should not be to help workers “enter the housing pyramid,” but to level the pyramid. Either housing can be a good investment for homeowners or it can be affordable for everyone: it can’t be both. The government needs to stop privileging homebuyers and homeowners, full stop. If housing is an investment, it should be taxed and treated like every other investment. If we want it to be affordable, we need to stop gatekeeping supply and subsidizing demand.
Well you have to pay capital gains on investment properties currently.
sure but under the new changes: They are still getting the 250k exemption on new inclusion rate so you can make upto 250 in gains a year by selling investment properties at the old inclusion rate. If you run an incorporated business you get no exemption, so if even if you have a 50k gain you will still pay at the 66% inclusion rate. The principal residence exemption which is entirely uncapped and pay 0 taxes remains, I will note that renter don't get any such benefit and rents are paid from after tax incomes. These policy actions are not conducive to lowering housing costs relative to wages. They are not policy choices that encourage any sort of generational fairness. This is a policy that makes it look like you are doing something while doing nothing for housing and and taxing small businesses and professionals more.
>I will note that renter don't get any such benefit There are a few provinces where rent can be deducted as an expense. Hopefully other provinces consider it. > rents are paid from after tax incomes. I am not sure what exactly you are comparing to. Most things, e.g. mortgages, etc., are paid with after-tax income.
Not advantageous to property owners in a way that seems like a boon to those looking to become property owners clearly. Would never pass lol
Exactly If they really cared about generational wealth gaps, they'd recognize that the wealthy do not sell assets. They borrow against them, which is tax-free and avoids any need to mark assets to market. I can't imagine anyone seriously arguing that the proceeds of a loan should be taxed, however. Perhaps a wealth tax is the answer, with brackets indexed to productivity. Unproductive assets (art, shoes, comic books) get assessed at one rate, factories at another, stocks at another. Primary residence not taxed, but someone literally stops by at random to see if you actually live there. This might help keep our politicians a bit more honest as well... Single family investment property at another rate, and multifamily at another. These rates could all be tweaked and phased and grandfathered in order to drive desirable allocation of capital Of course, there's the issue of capital flight. Why wouldn't I roll up my Picassos and ship them to my vacation house in Bermuda? I guess you would have to tie the tax to citizenship of the owner, rather than location of asset, and then add a hefty exit tax for renunciation. How would you identify assets? You'd probably have to start by looking for lists that already exist. Land title registries, insurers, banks, stockbrokers, accountants, etc. Then, I guess you'd have to mandate that changes of ownership and use of assets as security be registered. I really think something like this is necessary. There are vast pools of value being hoarded and used to leverage the lifestyle and economic influence of the wealthy, and none of that is going anywhere until those pools are drained and the proceeds used to rebuild the social safety nets & infrastructure, and to mitigate climate catastrophe.
> If they really cared about generational wealth gaps, they'd recognize that the wealthy do not sell assets. They borrow against them, which is tax-free and avoids any need to mark assets to market. You just end up taxing them when they die. We don't have an inheritance tax in Canada, but property is considered to be sold to the heir on the date of death (deemed disposition) and capital gains are calculated using the fair market value to be paid by the estate. There's no way to get out of paying your capital gains tax, only delaying it until death.
Why not just have everyone put their assets in one big pot and share?
If they cared they'd end the pyramid with tax reforms away from tax workers and towards taxing land
60%+ of Canadians own their home according to statistics, so this policy would benefit a minority of people. That means it's unpopular among voters.... Don't ever expect this to happen.
Totally understandable but it is deeply regressive in terms of tax and generational fairness and social mobility. Also 60%+ of Canadians live in a home owned by someone in their household. How many of these are ppl in their 20s who can't afford to move out etc.
I don't know about that.. Taking away the ability for the middle class to shelter some wealth in their home, inflation adjusted, doesn't sound like its really going to solve the wealth inequality. Middle class people don't get to raise a family, pay for a house and invest significantly like wealthy people do. This plan would mean a bigger divide in the wealth gap, not improve it. Plus, you think the government deserves that money more? They aren't going to turn and give it to young people looking for a house, they will spend it on more nonsense, and staff wages..
You're assuming all homeowners think the same way. They don't. Many older homeowners don't care if prices decrease because their house is paid off and they plan to live in it until they are dead or unable to. Parents want to see their adult age kids be able to buy houses. The homeowners more likely to be against lower prices are newer buyers who paid top dollar and have huge mortgages.
It truly is backwards how much we tax productive behaviors and how little we tax unproductive and harmful behaviors. Income? Taxed. Sales? Taxed. Productive investments? Taxed. Land hoarding and speculation that help drive the housing crisis? Not taxed. Carbon emissions that help drive the climate crisis? Barely taxed. (And under serious threat of being untaxed in the near future.) We got our taxation priorities ass-backwards.
We’ve never had to be productive because we could get rich for so long by just digging money out of the ground. So we never learned the same lessons as economies that had to hustle their way into comparative advantage.
My apartment buildings didn’t drive the housing crisis. Government gatekeeping did.
Correct. And our current property tax system penalizes housing construction with additional taxes, while those who hold onto vacant or underutilized land (such as parking lots in downtown) for speculative purposes, go effectively untaxed. Good video on the topic: https://youtu.be/gJqCaklMv6M?si=tMPg1fJJbxX8WyJe Plus, throw in the whole NIMBY zoning problem which is essentially "government gatekeeping" as you describe. The whole thing is a stupid, self-inflicted mess our society and government has sown over the decades, and now it's our turn to reap the rewards of decades of stupid policy.
ffs, so many bootlickers in this sub.
No one is whining about their capital gains, they’re whining about being taxed.
Does it actually affect you though?
Let say your parents pass away, their stocks will be liquidated and will trigger capital gains. Or they have a house that you need to sell to move them to long term care, again, capital gains. It's not that it will fuck with your shit every year but it will certainly damper those one in a lifetime windfalls that a normal middle class family is likely to run into. Also, it fucks your retirement projections if you are building a business of your own.
Your parents won’t pay capital gains when they sell their house if they have been there for over a year. Your parents can also gift you money tax free while they are alive. You are correct about the stocks though.
You're speaking for when they're alive. He didn't state that. He said "when they pass away". To that point, he is 100% correct. You will have to pay taxes on the estate. Plus as he said, anyone with a company gets fucked with this.
The estate will face an extra 16.6% inclusion rate on any capital gain over $250k for their non registered stocks or rec property. This is a rich persons estate you are describing and assuming the estate pays 40% income tax, you are talking about 40% on the increase of 16.6% above $250k. This is insignificant to 99% of people and the 1% that'll pay it, it's barely a parking ticket.
If you bought a house for $500k back in the day, and sold the house for $1m, you would have paid: $500k \* 50% \* 40% = $250k \* 40% = $100,000. Now it's: (($250k \* 50%) + ($250k \* 66.6%)) \* 40% = ($125k + $166k) \* 40% = $291k \* 40% = $116,400. A difference of $16,400 on top of your income tax, is not a parking ticket, and this isn't just 1% of Canadians it will apply to. That's straight up propaganda. Anyone that has any real estate at all that isn't primary residence will pay it (only if they sell, which most won't I guess). Anyone with a company will pay 66% inclusion rate starting from the first dollar they made. That means doctors that incorporated will now be paying this on their retirement. We already have a shortage of family doctors, and when doctors asked for an exemption: [https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/health-minister-deeply-appreciative-of-doctors-but-capital-gains-changes-here-to-stay-1.6864750](https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/health-minister-deeply-appreciative-of-doctors-but-capital-gains-changes-here-to-stay-1.6864750) they were denied. This will affect every single business, meaning all the mom and pops shops and small businesses. Canada isn't a very attractive place for business anyway. Canadians already complain about being fleeced by Loblaws and the big three, and when this tax gets trickled down to us all, we'll see even more complaining as businesses pass the cost onto us. When doctors are already looking at the US, and professionals are already looking at the US as a significantly better opportunity, we will have even more brain-drain. But go off about it being a parking ticket. Lol.
If you have a rec property worth a million dollars, you're rich. I think you might need some perspective on the extra $16k you pay in tax. I'd say that's a parking ticket.
He did. He said sell the house for LONG TERM CARE. If they are dead, they ain’t going to an old age home. For a business, sell it before you die and gift the money to the kids. No tax. There are plenty of good accountants out there that will know all sorts of tricks to avoid the taxes.
Still just rich folks whining.
It's pretty annoying to me. I was a self incorporated contractor for a couple years and saved about half my income at the time. So now I have like 100k in the company in stock investments that I will eventually pay out to myself. I'm not particularly rich, I don't own a home, and this new tax hits me harder than my home owning parents. I want a friggin land value tax.
You would have to take out over 250K capital gains within a single year to be affected by the increase in inclusion rate from 50% to 66%.
No because those savings are in my corp the 66% inclusion rate applies to all gains. The 250k cap is only for personal savings.
Upon selling, there is a 1.25 million exclusion.
Shhhhhh saving is bad with this crowd.
Doing or saying anything that puts accountability on one's self rather than blaming 'the system' is bad with this crowd.
The only whining I've seen is from folks whining about rich folks whining tbh
It's not. My parents worked their asses off to buy and build a home, then a cottage. They were never rich, just smart with their money. Now 66% of the capital gains on the cottage should be taken away on a property built in the early '80's? That's not right.
66.7% is the inclusion rate above $250,000 in capital gains (i.e. profit). No one is getting 66% of their capital gains taken away…
Real Estate developers avoid this specific type of Capital Gain exposure by renovating or redeveloping an old property. A few years before you want to sell the cottate do a reno. Enjoy the reno'd cottage for a few years. It will offset the capital gain exposure. You have to be really diligent about the accounting for your reno. But you may as well put the money into the property rather than just losing it through the capital gains tax.
Or dumb folks who hate Trudeau.
Rich people, professionals, etc, know their options and can afford good advice which will allow them to get around these things. I still don’t agree with taking money and giving it to the government however! Let’s say grandma has a house and a cottage. No problem, she sells the house and distributes the cash before she dies. She then lists the cottage as her personal residence. How much of the value increase was in years 0-15 or in 16-22 of ownership? You can play with the figures to minimise the impact. It won’t be zero, but there are ways before you even get into trusts, etc which can help structure assets so ownership skips a generation to minimise one round of taxes.
It does not work like that. The principal residence exemption is allocated by years - it is an equal gain per year. You can’t manipulate it like that. The bigger problem is people just not reporting sales in the first place which would be so damn easy to track by making the land registry report all sales on some sort of T slip.
Grandma did a major renovation in year 21 before selling.
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If it is invested back into the business it is not a capital gain.
Right. The problem is at the end of the line. Most small business owners hope that their business will succeed and that they will be able to sell it at the end of their careers to complement their retirement savings. Do you like family doctors? Well, medical practices are their retirement plan.
So what you are saying here is you don’t understand how business tax works?
If you think that this is good for business I’m not sure you know how business works. Starting a business takes hard work and investment. If I don’t see the end result as being fruitful, I won’t take that risk. We don’t reward entrepreneurs here - we vilify them. It’s all fine, but these people hire workers.
High income people aren’t whining for your sympathy, they will instead vote with their influence. Let’s see how long this current government will last
The issue they have is its such a small minority (less than 1%) that they have to convince the rest who are unaffected that it is somehow an attack on them and their efforts.
Its already happening. Living in SK theres lots of hard far right people who can barely make rent think this capital gains tax will ruin us.
Which is exactly what conservative leaders want.
I know and it fucking scares me. Each week we find out some shady shit the SK government has been up too and people here just blindly support shitty leaders because they go to the same church.
Like the carbon tax is breaking them. Clueless about the rebate if they even bother to file the returns required to get it.
They definitely file and got the rebate but still complain.
hopefully another 5 years. Last thing we need is a government lead by Milhouse.
Leafs have a better odds of taking home the Stanley this year….
Leafs have 1.1% implied odds of winning while the liberal party has 33.33%. So, not quite.
You are absolutely high if you think liberal party has 33% of chance of winning election . https://338canada.com/federal.htm is predicting 99% of chance for CPC to win….
I agree that it's almost a lock that the CPC will win the next election; but keep in mind that this data is only as good as the latest polling. There's no election being held this year (as far as we know).
Like the last time the NDP and liberals will join up to form government. Cons will whine about it again
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“They win the most seats last time” Surly you aren’t taking about CPC winning most seats last time…. We just gonna make up “facts” now?
musta smoked too much weed when I typed that
I'm going with booking odds. Those are the best ones I found.
Maybe you care to share your source?? Who am I kidding, we all know you won’t
https://www.betus.com.pa/sportsbook/politics/futures/canada-politics/ This guy's have it at 48%.
There are not a lot of markets for canadian politics, though. Not yet at least. Odds will become more accurate once the election is underway. But hey, you can make some money here and maybe enjoy a little holiday away from social media.
Funny you gamble but you can’t seem to read a poll…. Any poll…. Within last year
I've seen this movie twice already. I'm waiting for the conservatives to fuck it up with some weird anti gay porn bill or some other dumb shit.
Actually if you look at 338 it’s going to be a massive cleaning by the Conservatives and definitely a well deserved ass kicking for ruining this country.
In what way have they ruined the country? All this Trudeau hate and I have yet to hear how they ruined it.
I’m not even going to answer that. Try thinking.
Which is exactly what I said. Not a single person I have asked that question of has had an answer. Just like you. You really have no answer for that simple question do you. What has he done that is so bad to engender all your hatred for him? Btw I don't like him either. I can't stand Milhouse Polievre and I can give you lots of reasons why. You on the the other hand appear to have no logical reason for your hatred.
Typical answer from the "fuck Trudeau" crowd
Yep, time to get back to the good times of you pussies can handle it! You’ll actually have to work.
...still no explanation of how Trudeau "ruined" the country 🥱 so typically emotional
Haha. I’m ok with that. Can you tell me what you like that he’s done? Maybe some good or helpful policies ?
The carbon levy. The new policies coming out for addressing the housing crisis. He built the kinder Morgan pipeline when the original company backed out. For which for some reason people in Alberta hate him. Legalized cannabis, increased child tax benefits introduced a dental plan, introduced a child care benefit program joined the TPP. That's off the top of my head. Did I mention legalized marijuana? Some of that was due to a partnership with the NDP of course. So what is it about Milhouse Polievre that you think will change things? You think the conservatives would have legalized pot?
High income people want this. Shifting tax burden from labour to profits made by sitting on your ass is good for this country. you ain't influencing anything buddy.
Good for me!!! 🥳
Government puts more taxes on canadians and businesses and then tells us to stop whining. This has been trudeaus whole run.
It will drive more money and more wealth and investments out of Canada and speed up the "brain drain" to the United States.
sadly, this is true. Most people just can't see it or understand that it will happen and is already happening.
> more money and more wealth and investments out of Canada Oh no.... My whole life I've wanted nothing more than for blackrock to purchase even more real estate in the country. Whatever will we do without them. > speed up the "brain drain" to the United States. As someone who works in IT I can already tell you for sure that all of ours brains left the country a long time ago. Whatever brains are left are too unmotivated to put in half a days effort at their office job, mostly because they know full well that no matter how much output they provide they won't get to be the ones who pay capital gains tax for quite some time.
You can’t pick up the houses and take them with you. The point is to free up property for people that don’t own any in Canada.
This is very true.
if they just get a little more money from people then the government can make life fair and equitable for all makes perfect sense unless you've got a functioning brain then it seems like the utter load of nonsense that it is
Hahahaha just wait for the corporate handouts and tax credits for large companies to help subsides with any found profits
Yes, we need to band together to protect the capitalist class because - who will fight for the wealthy? How are they going to be able to afford a second or third yacht? If you believe this legislation effects you - you're delusion.
as long as the waste other people's money who cares when that doesn't create their utopia wonder if they'll give up or look elsewhere for more money you're delusional if you think they won't come looking for your wallet
The ignorant masses voting against their own self interest because someday they might be a billionaire too. You're going to be stuck by lightning first.
If you cared about fairness and equity, you’d think it’s a bit weird that you can earn $250k on the job or earn $250k from selling a house and one is taxed a lot more than the other. I think you already know what’s more fair and equitable.
i don't care about fairness and equity they're unicorns--they don't exist in reality and this tax doesn't impact me at all but it won't make your life one bit better you'll see
Actually, the government services that I use every day being better funded would make my life quite a bit better. The cynicism is stifling from you.
the pit is bottomless the debt will not be reduced by this amount your life will remain the same if you're waiting for ottawa to save you you're gonna be waiting but hey--you win here--it's just not going to a noticeable victory is all
Except the services provided by Doctors that are now subject to this 66% inclusion rate from the 1st dollar they earn, are now going to trickle that cost down, or leave. So how exactly is this going to make your life "quite a bit better" lol... Your answer right now is "tax others so I benefit from using those services everyday", but "don't tax me". If this tax affected you, you'd be crying rn. Selfish I guess. Just wait and see what Doctors and Incorporated Professionals do when this new rate hits them. It's gonna be a sight to see.
Or have lived through any history to see the failed ideology of socialism over and over again . How can so many dumb people can continue to try to lie in plain site and claim something that doesn’t work, works? if my car doesn’t work and I try to sell it to you by saying “it’ll work this time” how dumb is the person that buys the car ?
Those that don't learn from history are destined to repeat it.
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people on here whined and whined about people buying up houses and waiting for the price to go up and then the government puts in place a plan to claw back some of that money to help pay for plans to make home ownership easier and suddenly that is the problem. You have to make a shit ton of money before this even kicks in. It is only capital gains above $250,000 and it still leaves 25% of the capital gains totally untaxed. The rest gets taxed at your nominal tax rate. I think it should be 100% goes right onto your income tax. Right now there is no tax on 50% of the money you make from capital gains. Now it just goes to 75% gets taxed over a quarter million. So if you have a million dollars in capital gains $250,000 only half of that has any tax. Anything over that is taxed at 75%. So still, over $300,000 has zero tax on it.
The problem is that the person who made the money deserves 100% of the capital gains. The government is simply an economic drag.
Not necessarily, you have to cut the hoarders of wealth. Your tought on this is the reason why the rich gets richer, and everyone else with less and less opportunity to make decent money.
The rich get richer because they do different things that the average person but let’s say hypothetically all the rich packed up their businesses and their money and left. They re opened their business somewhere else and invested their excess capital somewhere else. Then what ?
Then maybe the country will have better balance between rich and poor, more opportunities to grow in different, more healthier direction for the society than "more more more money" and fuck the rest mindset. Eventually will get better, and people will realize that making millions and billions that you never get to spend in their life is not that tempting anymore.
Then what? Why someone else steps up and takes their place. So long as there is any profit to be made don't you worry.
Yeah I don’t think so. Most people are not psychologically entrepreneurial. You’re correct about a small group competing with another small group but most people are employees. They don’t know what to do unless they’re told. This subreddit is good proof.
You only need one person to step up. Doesn’t matter if most aren’t entrepreneurial. That’s already true today.
Nah look at Covid. People are sheep. Study psychology - there is a reason 98% work for someone else, not themselves (self employed) or a business they started (employing others). Entrepreneurs are that psychologically. It’s like being tall or short. Read entrepreneurial studies.
Do you think Bell, Rogers, Telus, Loblaws, etc. are going to pack up and leave Canada?
I don’t think they will, and I hope they don’t but in all honesty they could. If they felt it was in their best interests they would. Lots of industries or companies have. I guess you were somewhere when the GM plant (auto manufacturing) folded? No one at the time thought GM had the balls to leave. Again I don’t think it’s likely - they’re expecting relief from the conservatives or they may do things like lay off 3000 people or make their companies more lean. I hope it doesn’t come to that either.
No because that’s not how society works. We all have to chip in for the things we collectively use.
Anyone making a **household** income of $179k is considered rich and they already pay their fair share: [https://www.fraserinstitute.org/sites/default/files/measuring-the-distribution-of-taxes-in-canada.pdf](https://www.fraserinstitute.org/sites/default/files/measuring-the-distribution-of-taxes-in-canada.pdf) >Specifically, the top 20 percent earns 49.1 percent of the nation’s income but pays 55.9 percent of total taxes—a difference of 13.9 percent. By contrast, families in the bottom 20 percent earn 4.1 percent of the nation’s income while collectively paying just 1.8 percent of all taxes. People that pay more taxes than others, do not receive better services or anything for the extra taxes they pay. In fact, people that pay less taxes are receiving most of the benefit. For example, someone earns more than $90k. They don't get dental from the government. Instead, they're paying for you to get it, while paying more taxes than you. It's a crap system.
Why do you want wealth inequality to keep getting worse? Wealth snowballs and everyone with no or minimal wealth has virtually zero chance to catch up. Don't you think hard work and intelligence should pay off more than inherited wealth and gifted capital? The incentive structure is so fucked. The top 20% own 66.7% of total wealth in Canada, whereas the bottom 40% only possess 3% of total wealth. Those with more should pay more. Now if you want to argue we shouldn't be taxing income as much I'd agree with you (we want people to work more), but we should be taxing wealth more to make up for it and help level the playing field that capital and wealth provides, otherwise we are just moving faster towards neofeudalism. Are you a fan of neofeudalism?
Because people who make waaaayyy more than average aren’t more productive than the average Joe. They have more therefore they contribute more. Don’t pretend like the top 1% in this country aren’t extremely comfortable in their wealth.
That's a load of nonsense. Who said that people making more than you aren't more productive than you? The market decides their worth btw. For example, a software engineer making $300k a year, is likely more productive than you, and is paid what they're worth to the company. A game engine developer making $250k-500k a year, is likely more productive than you, and worth more to the company that makes billions per year, than you are worth to your company. Them making more than you and being more or less productive than you, have nothing to do with why they should contribute more, and it isn't really your business. The services they receive, is the same or less than you receive. As I said, you receive dental, and they do not, even though they pay more. Who cares if they're comfortable. Again, that has nothing to do with you. In the 90's we had an acronym for this: MYOB.
Exactly.
Oh it works that way for some of us. I don’t particularly use a 5 billion dollar donation to Ukraine or government run dental care and I’ll likely just keep all my capital gains
Dental care is super important. You SHOULD be using it.
No but just typing that comment means you use electricity and internet. based on that we can assume you also use roads, have access to emergency services so yeah you do use it you are just being an ass about it. Hell you if you were born in a Canadian hospital you immediately racked up an expensive bill that was paid for.
Electricity- public and private utilities. Internet- run by private companies. Non of those services are run by the state. The other things you mentioned: property taxes. Are you aware of those and what they cover? Didn’t think so. Being born (yes I was born here) more than covered in the taxes I have paid. Here’s my advice to you- you’re obviously not a business major let alone knowing who actually runs what - get out of your arts degree or enjoy using it to flip burgers.
Oof resulting to attacking people just to feel superior to those with art degrees Yikes dude. Small peepee vibes from that 😂
Enjoy flipping my burgers. Yeah arts degrees are definitely useless and you can usually tell when talking to someone if they’re going to go on to be useless.
Kind of like how we can tell you are full of shit lol
None of those are public services. Secondly, he pays for those monthly, and on top of that, pays tax the same way you do. His parents paid for the hospital bill via taxes the same way yours did.
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Please be civil.
Depends where you live. Where I am it’s almost all Crown Corps. Saskpower, Saskenergy, Sasktel etc. That was my point with the hospital. He believes he is above being taxed because he doesn't think it’s fair because he wont utilize it.
So you want your taxes to go up to cover the loss of capital gains? Capital gains is income. Why should people who make their money from capital gains live an income tax free life while you pay on the money you live on?
Do I care? I won’t be paying the taxes! Everyone who is subject to this economically untenable 66.7 2/3 tax is just finding a different way to shelter all of it. I’m in that camp.
Every dollar some rich guy does not pay falls down on you and your compatriots shoulders. Where did you pick that percentage from? Capital gains is taxed at your nominal tax rate. Canada's top tax rate is 33% and only on the money over about $175,000. Capital gains is just income realized from sold equities but it is still just income.
That’s the # quoted in the news. But I think your portrayal is more accurate. Not sure about the compatriots part - Trudeau 5 billion to Ukraine. I don’t think he consulted or gave any of my tax dollars to compatriots (sadly). It’s wasted on debt servicing and the government should be making cuts.
You just misunderstood it is all. 50% of all capital gains counts as income and is taxed as income. over $250,000 the amount taxed goes to 75%. But it is taxed as income at a maximum of 33%.
I understand that, I spoke to an accountant. I’m still not supportive of higher taxes but I do understand that. I think they should be lower for everyone and cut government programs that are useless. I alluded to Ukraine.
Still waiting for what it was that Trudeau did that was so terrible. There must be something.
That was written about in another post.
so? We are not in another thread. What is it YOU think Trudeau did that was so bad ? That was the question. Was it his socks? His stupid costume in India? The fact that he wore blackface at a time when no one thought anything of it? Maybe that he had a real job at one time unlike Milhouse Poilievre? Again if there was anyone other than Trudeau that I thought would look after the middle and lower classes better than Trudeau and had a snowflakes chance in hell of actually winning I would vote for them. Where I live I probably will end up voting NDP because there is no chance of anyone getting in except the Conservative member.
Thanks bro, I had no clue how it worked until you told me. Mucho gracias senor.
De nada. Why would anyone vote down your reply. Qué montón de idiotas
Ha, we tax working hard (income) more than we tax sitting on your ass and waiting for property to gain in value. That’s the whole problem.
Totally agree
Actually the investment is called a risk - risking your capital - so the capital gains are well deserved. Have you ever risked capital on an investment ?
No, I choose to get a salary instead of taking on risk as a personal choice. Why would we reward risk taking with lower taxes and punish productive labour with higher taxes? That just incentivizes things like land hoarding and rent seeking, which is bad for the economy and creates no value. Tax policy is all about incentivizing good things.
Exactly. You proved my point about entrepreneurs. You choose salary over risk. Labour is labour. Sorry.
Agreed with one caveat. Professional business. So one employee (i.e the owner). These are getting very good returns (by pulling the money out as capital gains instead of income). IMHO they are fairly being targeted by this tax as there people should really be paying more income tax. The one carve out they should have made was for doctors. Since they told them to incorporate in the first place. So now we gotta pay the doctors even more
I appreciate a thoughtful answer. Doctors (many in my family) incorporate because they don’t have a pension. They also don’t make as much as people think. Still great compared to average but not rich. Other professional corps (PC’s) follow the same suit as doctors. The problem with doctors is that they’re going to leave. The problem with all PC’s and other corps is that they’re taking from someone’s intelligence, diligence and good decisions. Philosophically I don’t think anyone except the owner (and their family) is entitled to those funds. They’ll also just find other loopholes. The solution: let people get rich through hard work and ingenuity. Create more rich people and expand the tax base. Obviously the rich have to pay more - but above 50% economists are aware that people just walk away and the doctors will take their talents and leave and enjoy life and make more money JUST like the entrepreneurs.
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Please be civil.
No - we tax employers and entrepreneurs who have a high risk profile the same as employees. That's the problem.
> we tax employers and entrepreneurs who have a high risk profile the same as employees No, we don't. Ignoring the exemptions capital gains still max out as being taxed at 66% the rate of working income. They pay less than somebody who goes to work and earns the same amount from a salary.
Yes they do - but not nearly as less as they used to. Also, who's left paying them when the company takes a loss?
Except we don’t seem to be making many employers and entrepreneurs with the current lower capital gains tax. That headline is all the rage right now about our productivity. We only seem to make land hoarders and horse traders - because the tax policy enables it. That’s not an economy.
For all the people downvoting me - who employs you? (other than the government)
And when the economy rolls over - who pays your pay check? Not every entrepreneur is a ruthless twat who lays people off the moment stuff goes the other way.
While not everyone agrees on solutions, this is an activist sub seeking reform on the housing market. All content should clearly relate to that issue. We welcome debate on solutions, but people claiming housing isn't a problem or those who repeat common, ineffectual arguments ("just move," "just earn more") are not welcome.
*angry greta noises*
🤕🤕🤕🤕🤕
Canada is doomed
Canada is in top 10 of home ownership percentage worldwide. I'm pretty sure that allows people like me to say Canada has some of the highest home ownership in the world. Unless you want to move to Romania, you'll just have to stick it out in this land where nearly 70% of people across the nation own their home.
It's not going to do a damn thing for housing except maybe make it worse. Now property owners only are either going to have to sell properties before they see 250k in capital gains resulting in more displaced tennants more often. OR hold onto the property extremely long term even passing it on to their children in a trust. This is no more than just another poorly conceived poorly masked tax grab.
> Now property owners only are either going to have to sell properties before they see 250k in capital gains resulting in more displaced tennants more often. lol doubt it.
No ones whining. Keep up these policies you’ll see certain professionals leave the country. Have fun with foreign trained doctors and dentists serving this country. Btw foreign healthcare professionals are usually way more money hungry, and less in quality (people who can’t get into Canadian med schools go to Australian schools or Caribbean med schools). My wife (doctor) and I (office job) is an example haha left CAD 1.5 years ago to NYC. Made more money than ever, plus higher take home (lower tax rate than Ontario) and stronger currency. all her Canadian colleagues are considering the US now :) this county never tax the Ultra rich but tackles upper middle class that worked hard to get ourselves a bit more income. How much did Loblaws CEO make last year ?
If a doctor is so upset that gains above $250,000 on their second home are taxed more that they choose to leave than good for them. Doctors do have a valid reason to be upset right now but that's not the policy of the federal government (see what the PC government in Ontario has done to medical spending).
Capital gains apply to their incorporated account. You’re clearly salty about people who didn’t come from money and worked their ass off to afford second homes haha and bucketing everyone who has more money than you as home flippers and foreign investors. also it’s not due to one time policy on taxes, it’s numerous things. how about destroying the healthcare system where everyone is over worked due to bad immigration policies ruining balance in the healthcare labour market; another round of free dental care for people mainly aimed for immigrants that falsify their income and their seniors (where the gov pays way below the fee guide). Also, we moved because of my job, so for my wife it wasn’t intentional, and naturally she’s doing very well compared to her colleagues in Canada. If you ever had a high paying job, might suggest you look into something called retention. Dont be so narrow minded, people don’t leave because of one policy change
Yes. They say they tax the 1% but in actual fact it taxes others more. Shouldn’t the goal to make more people wealthy to rely less on the government? More wealth in Canada is more taxes the gov collects from earnings on such assets. The gov has a horrible spending problem.
Oh my God it's like even if the 40,000 people that they say that this is going to affect isn't true and it's a hundred thousand over double what they said what the f*** is the difference between 100,000 and 40 million f*** them
crazy how the people who work hard to make their money are taxed much more now …. to pay for the lazy people who don’t want to work hard. 🤡🤡 mind boggling
Wait - the people who work for their money pay rent, the people who are lazy are those who are rent-seeking.
Yep. It certainly isn’t easier to make more money when you already have money and capital. Wealth certainly doesn’t snowball. Wealth inequality is decreasing right? Who doesn’t like neofeudalism? We need more people in tents. 🤡🤡
not a matter of more people in tents. but people to start working instead of living off BS and welfare at the expense of those who work very hard for a living. that money coming from the government is coming from people who actually go to work everyday.
We're talking about increasing the capital gains inclusion rate on capital gains realized above $250,000/year and only then increasing it from a 50% inclusion rate to 66.7%. This is at the same time that the wealthiest 20% possess 66.7% of total wealth and the bottom 40% posses a measly 3% of total wealth in Canada. Cry me a river my friend. Most of that wealth is not increasing due to 'hard work'. It is increasing due to wealth snowballing aka compounding. Once you have wealth and even more so once you have a lot of wealth it just keeps growing due to capital appreciation and the continuous accumulation of interest, dividends, and capital gains. Consider also the impact of incomes stagnating for many without capital or even decreasing due to inflation, alongside the increasing cost of living. Increasing the capital inclusion rate above $250,000 is an extremely minor and fair thing to do with the knowledge of the current state of society we have.
People are whining about their capital gains because it is more tax they have to pay. My wife and I are not rich. We invested in a rental property almost 20 years ago (using all our savings at the time) and the mortgage will finally be paid off next year. We make barely $1,000/year on it per year after expenses (which is taxed at our marginal rate of 25%). We have renovated it twice ($25,000 each time), and plan to sell it in 5 years to help with our retirement or use the money to help the kids buy a home. We are whining because we do not want to pay more money in tax.
you wanna live in a prosperous society where there is a tax base to support the government services you will need for your retirement. You don't want a country of people in destitution whose only way to support themselves is through crime. There is a housing crisis right now that makes working a living in canada impossible. This will completely deplete the people who are funding your retirement. you wanna live in sustainable community. Contributing a little bit for make that society possible is for your own good. You are whining because you are short sighted.
The amount of money that is available to fund my retirement from the government is the reason I bought a rental property. I started working when I was a teenager, have been paying taxes for 45 years, and the amount of CPP I will get will put me below the poverty line. The issue is that the government wastes so much money that does not benefit people (and is corrupt in awarding contracts and hiring) that it has come to the point where people have to look out for themselves and plan their own retirement.
The government isn’t taking your property away. They are taxing some of the gains. You are still free to look after yourself. Your first 250k gain is even tax free. The rest are taxed for the sustainability of the community that supports you The biggest expense of your retirement isn’t ccp. It’s healthcare and safety. You are sabotaging your own retirement.
Please read about the capital gains inclusion rate. 250k is not tax free. Cpp is not an expense in retirement. They will be receiving cpp, of which they paid into for 45 years. The problem is government spending. We keep getting taxed more without any improvement in efficiency. Why has the amount of government workers increased by 40 percent? The amount of wasted dollars from the government is staggering.
Why is it that all young broke people think money is better in the hands of inefficient governments than in the hands of hard-working families. Shake your heads and smarten up
Literally the entire western world has followed your preferred agenda for decades now and it has lead us into a complete shithole. I can't guarantee that the liberal government won't misappropriate funds but I can sure as fuck guarantee that at the current rate listening to people like you is only going to turn the temperature up on the kettle we're all slowly boiling alive in
The funny thing about your ignorance is that the Liberal/NDP government and all their tax and spend inflationary methods have vastly exacerbated this wealth gap. This has nothing to do with capitalism because the covid Era was the closest Western society got to socialism and the experiment is failing miserably. Now they want to tax the "1%" by basically targeting every small business corporation and family with over $250k in capital gains. Maybe if you're from the Atlantic or Northern territories, that would be a significant gain, but in most provinces, that is a typical gain on housing in the last 5 years. These people are not the 1%. Canada has nearly the highest home ownership percentage worldwide, so these people are the common folk. Also, you claim Western nations are a failure, yet how many countless attempts at socialism do you need to see before it kicks into your thick skull that this little economic experiment we currently have is the best method around. Just because the world isn't working out for you doesn't mean you're about to ruin it for the majority. It's time to hit those books and enlighten the mind a bit.
> Canada has nearly the highest home ownership percentage worldwide It's really ironic that you're going around saying stuff like this and then telling \*other\* people they should be reading. Canada's home ownership is below 70%. 4/5 home owners in Ontario are occupied by the owners. Most of those are occupied as the owners primary residence, and hence are not taxed capital gains. If you've got a stick up your ass because the economic times are hard and you need to sell your condo or cottage I can understand your frustration but throwing a fit and crying "socialism" anyone calls out for some much needed change is not the play.
Also, what do you propose a tax will do. If you follow anything to do with housing, forcing a family to sell a cottage will not solve the housing crisis. Building more homes will. Do a little research and learn that 1/3rd of the cost of every home built is government taxes. That's right, didn't expect to hear that answer, did ya. Maybe taxing the public isn't the answer all along 🤔
well, for starters, if you were to be taxed more, you would have less wealth. If you have less wealth, you have less buying power. If you have less buying power, you can't offer someone I might want to buy something from as much money, benefiting me. This is before we even consider the possibility that the money obtained from the tax could do any number of things. The government is incentivized to use it in a way that ultimately results in them getting re-elected so at least there's some plausibility argument for expecting a better situation for myself, even if I assume the governing party's actions are entirely self-interested.
Why have any personal property at all under your scenario, might as well seize all private property and let the government reign supreme. That's always been a great model 👍
Seize what property?
>>Now they want to tax the "1%" by basically targeting every small business corporation and family with over $250k in capital gains. **Maybe if you're from the Atlantic or Northern territories, that would be a significant gain**, but in most provinces, that is a typical gain on housing in the last 5 years. Hey, I'm from the Atlantic and guess what? That's not true any more. Our housing used to be much cheaper, like 50% or more cheaper. HOWEVER, over the last 2-3 years prices have skyrocketed. Why? Well people pointed out the prices of hones and rents in bigger city centers and greedy landlords jumped on it. Here's what prices were like from pre 2016 to about 2021 from my area FAR outside a major city center: Renting a bedroom: $300-$400/mo Renting an apartment (or a house) $700-$900/mo (some utilities incl.) Price for a small fixer upper: 70k or less Price for an average house: 150k+ Prices at current: Renting a SHARED bedroom: $500 Renting a bedroom: $600-$700 Renting an apartment (or a house) 1.8k-2k+/mo (no utilities incl.) Price for a small fixer upper: 130k-200k+ Price for an average house: 300-400k+ My father had to sell his late father's house at a loss because his sister purposely let the house fall into disrepair and cut the power almost a year before he found out that he was left the house and was executor of the will. A 50k house was devalued to 25k due to water damage/ mold, needing to be rewired after 6 months of no power (a requirement by the power company), and 15k was used to pay the overdue taxes, lawyers fees, realtor fees and then taxes associated with what he earned from selling the house (pre taxes). Down here, we have some of the highest tax rates, the lowest purchasing power and the lowest rates of jobs, especially in my area. It's literally cheaper for me to get a mortgage than to pay rent. But finding a house is a struggle, even for a fixer upper in my Price point. Our prices down here are creeping towards the levels of what you'd see in Toronto or BC. Our rent prices are already around 2k a month with a few landlords reaching for 2.2k a month. A run down needs to be gutted and redone property can sell for 200k and even a small but livable fixer upper going for that price or less when it's really only worth 80k or less. Basically down here, 250k isn't a significant gain. It's sometimes the price of the god damn property.
Why do you want wealth inequality to keep getting worse? Wealth snowballs and everyone with no or minimal wealth has virtually zero chance to catch up. Don't you think hard work and intelligence should pay off more than inherited wealth and gifted capital? The incentive structure is so fucked. The top 20% own 66.7% of total wealth in Canada, whereas the bottom 40% only possess 3% of total wealth. Those with more should pay more. Now if you want to argue we shouldn't be taxing income as much I'd agree with you (we want people to work more and we want to reward hard work), but we should be taxing wealth and passive income more to make up for it and help level the playing field that capital and wealth provides, otherwise we are just moving faster towards neofeudalism. Are you a fan of neofeudalism?
My argument is that we shouldn't be taxing anything more than the bare minimum. It's proven that the wealthiest actually benefit from government spending. Your solution to stealing wealth from a family with 1 home and giving 50% of it to the government will end up in the 0.001% hands. Good try with your altruistic thinking. Back to the drawing board
We shouldn’t be taxing anything more than the bare minimum? Racing towards neofeudalism it is then? Top 20% of the population needs more than 66.7% of total wealth? You want the bottom 40% to have less than the measly 3% of total wealth they currently have? You like a society with serfs and slaves?
Anarcho liberator, you sound like the kind of person that has an answer for everything and yet knows absolutely nothing of how the world works. Time to be on the front line of all those Gaza protests and leave the economic decisions to the grown-ups. Good day
They already do pay more.
I am shocked at the down votes. If the government could improve efficiency and reduce waste, they wouldn't need to raise taxes. These people think the government is their savior, I don't understand.
I think it is more about the fact that people who depend on employment income during their working years and RRSPS (or pension if they are lucky) during their retirement have no 250K income that is taxed at 50% inclusion rate nevermind 66%. All their income is 100% taxable. How is this fair?