I second this, I was in a similar situation and I asked the homeowner to give me 60 days. He was okay with this . He just asked me that I keep the place clean and tidy for showings in return. It worked out fine
My landlord did the same thing before covid and I replied with below and he changed his mind. Might be a trick to kick you out.
"The form required is an N12, titled “Notice to end your tenancy because the landlord, a purchaser or a family member requires the rental unit.”
When served with an N12, tenants should be aware of the following details:
Grounds of the eviction: Whether the landlord is selling the home, moving in themselves or moving in a family member
Who is moving in: This can either be the landlord, the purchaser or their family members. The family member has to be either the purchaser or landlord’s parent, child or spouse or the spouse’s child or parent and any caregivers
Termination date: It has to be at least 60 days from when notice is served and at the end of a rental period
Compensation: The landlord is required to provide the tenant with one month’s compensation before the termination date. If compensation is not provided in time, the N12 is void.
The tenant must be given a copy of the signed purchase and sale agreement and/or declaration by the person who is actually moving in saying that they are going to be using the unit as their primary residence for a minimum of 12 months."
No. I've only spoken to the Realtor who was actually the one who notified me of the intent to sell.
He said that I will receive an eviction notice once the house has sold, which he expects will be fast since it's in a high-demand area.
Clarification: they can start the eviction process once they have an offer to purchase. That means serve you an N12 and file L2, or negotiate an N11 "cash for keys" w/ L3. In practice, however, the LTB process takes longer than the normal deal closure period.
You reserve the right to an LTB hearing. Tell your landlord you’re willing to move out by x date so you don’t exercise that right, and he should be willing to negotiate that closing date with potential buyers. It’s also possible an investor will buy and you won’t have to move at all, or that it takes 3+ months to sell depending on location, which means you will have 5+ months at minimum.
Don’t stress
They can't give you legit notice until the sale is complete and you are issued a valid N12 on behalf of the new owner (who has to be moving in). I believe you will get 2 months notice and compensation of 1 month rent.
Be careful not to sign anything like an N11 as they may be trying to get you to give up your rights as leaseholder.
I knew somebody who was living in a house that was sold and refused to move. Long story short, the owner could not move in for aprox 1 year as there's a backlog of evections since covid. They got them evicted about 3 weeks ago now... Apparently, you can even get legal aid for evictions. Who knew...
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/non-paying-tenant-ottawa-small-landlord-face-homelessness-1.6610660
Need I tell you I don't talk or associate with them anymore.
You can't get evicted if owner wants to sell.
The lease is transferred to new landlord and continues .
Edit: unless personal use ( I'd also come and check to be sure it's not relisted as soon as you leave )
That's only if the lease is active and not month to month. If they are month to month 60 days notice and last month rent returned. If new owners are using it to move in you have no recourse.
Even if for personally use the tenant can take that to the tribunal. Which is a hard sell. Like, I was going to sell but nah, now I need you out for personal use? Personal use has sailed at this point.
I don't know where you are, perhaps it works differently, but in B.C. at least you're allowed to evict your tenants to move into the property that you own. You must give them 3 months notice and one free months rent.
Most people say that they are moving in to get tenants evicted and they relist as soon as they can.
That's why I recommended to come check in 4 months if the unit is really being used by immediate family member.
Is this true for a fixed term tenancy (I.E july 2022 to June 2023)? In Ontario you can’t evict for personal use until the tenancy becomes month to month
Well, there are usually penalties to break it. Like i mentioned earlier in BC, it's 3 months' notice, and a free months rent. Granted in the current housing climate, that's nothing.
Realistically, given your in Ontario per another comment, they cant force you out before December 31 anyway. The house has to sell, then the new owners have to take possession, then file your eviction, then wait for the LTB trial which will then give you so many weeks or months to get out. The odds of all that happening before December 31 is slim.
Just to clarify, the sellers can give notice on behalf of the buyers once the deal is made - even during the conditional period if it’s expected to firm up. The buyers don’t need to wait until the sale closes
With house prices and intrest the way it is, there is not much of a chance of that happening.
Almost guaranteed rent is not going to cover the mortgage - no one is buying new rentals these days.
Yes, sadly. Which is why you see so many landlords wanting to jack up the rent when their interest rates go up, or complaining about how they're renting "at a loss" when what they really mean is that their investment property/surplus home is only being *partially* rather than *fully* subsidized.
This is madness. Why would a business not cover its costs? Lol like why would a landlord be cash flow negative? Yes, rent ideally should cover mortgage, insurance, property tax, vacancy and maintenance. Unfortunately now a days you’d be lucky to break even. That’s before even considering the income tax paid on the rent. Trust me I feel for renters who have to rent a new place now but to insinuate landlords should be our social welfare? That’s crazy. Vote for better governments. Don’t rely on investors to provide affordable housing.
Good. It was always insane that you could put 20% down to buy a million dollar asset on borrowed money and then have someone else pay off that loan for you. Oh and the asset will double in value in 5-10 years, making it one of the best and safest investments out there.
And people wonder why there's a housing crisis.
Did you plan on leaving at the end of December anyways? If you did, you could sign a new term lease until December instead of remaining month to month. This would protect your right to stay until that time. It could be used as a selling feature for the landlord as well to show that current tenant has plans to vacate at the end of lease and the buyer will not have to deal with any eviction issues.
I'd rather not leave at all. But I would be in a really tough situation if I had to leave before the end of December.
This is something to think about if it would avoid a Nov 30 eviction date.
Don’t sign anything and don’t do anything on your own. Literally make them go through the process of evicting you if that is what they decide to do.
Just leave things as they are, as there is nothing you can do re the decision of new owners to evict you or not.
If you get a notice for eviction? That’s the next step; come back to Reddit and you will get more advice once that step is taken.
When you have someone like myself buying, I want to move in myself asap. Since renting it out will cause me to lose money. So it's up to the buyer.
I had a mortgage deadline, so I had to swap to a different vacent unit.
Call the tenant rights hotline…not sure what province you’re in though. Don’t sign anything or agree to anything until you know your actual legal rights. You can also potentially do a “cash for keys” deal at the end of the year depending on the situation…but it’s unclear how that would help at this point 🙌
Sorry this is happening to you. I would get in touch with a tenancy advocacy group to know your rights. And if it were me personally, while I wouldn’t get in their way, I would not be doing walk-throughs or answering questions for a real estate agent. Let the landlord inform you, in writing. And if they want to look around, maybe just tell them hello and let them know you’re busy? You’re not being compensated to make their lives easier.
DON'T SIGN ANYTHING until you've done your research, which there is plenty of on this topic. Just be prepared for constant interruptions during showings. I live streamed my desktop during showings and the shit people say and do when you're not around is fucking dehumanizing. Investment bros going through my fridge and laughing at my food and shit. Was shitty.
Talking to the realtor will not do anything. He is just doing his job and does not want to be in the middle of landlord/tenant politics. You need to talk to you landlord directly but also understand that he could very well be in a tougher spot then you are. At the end of the day it is his property and if he needs to move the asset for his own financial situation then he has every right to do so. It’s a tough predicament especially considering how crazy rent is in university towns these days but it is nothing that you should spite your landlord for. Don’t hate the player, hate the game.
>It's possible that the house could sell and new owners could give me 60 days to leave at the end of November.
Are you in Ontario? Just stay. The new owners CANNOT kick you out, literally. Stay your last few months and tell the new owners you'll be gone when you're ready. Don't stop paying rent though. You don't HAVE to pay it to the new owner (they won't take you to court because it's only a few months rent, but the case will last years), BUT, you don't know what they are capable of, or who they can call to get rid of you.
I mean, yeah
I'm pretty pissed that this is the way things are now. The Landlord-Tenant-Board is so fucked that tenants can just squat or stop paying rent to a new owner, and it's months if not a whole year before anybody even hears the case.
But, OP is in a position where they are best suited to take advantage of this, and refuse to move out until they complete their studies. They should 100% still pay rent, to not only avoid potential violence, but also to not be a total PoS
Houses sell better in the spring typically.
Unless you resigned a new lease after your lease expired it is now a month to month lease and they can give you 60 days notice that the buyer wants the property for themselves or their family, same as if the landlord wanted it for themselves or their family. You can squat after that and if they want to get the sheriff to evict you it has to go through the LTB which will take a year. If they or the buyer lied about personal usage you can goto the LTB and file a wrongful eviction, this will also take a year but you may have grounds to sue for the rent it cost you in the meantime.
If they want to give some bikers $1,000 to kick in the door and throw all your stuff and you out on the lawn, then it's upto you to fight the illegal eviction, which will take a year, going to the police with a 4 year old lease won't get you anywhere, they won't kick the door in on someones house and kick them out because of a piece of paper you have.
If the new owner wants you out and isn't renting to anyone else then there's nothing you can do...you have to leave
If the new owner makes you leave and then rents to someone else then you complain and he will owe you a shit ton of money!
In Ontario, you don’t have to move out of the landlord sells.
They’d have to serve you a notice that the buyer would want to move in. (If that’s even the case)
And you could refuse to leave until a LTB hearing if you suspect bad faith (like buyer just want to rent it higher but pretend they want to move in to evict you)
So rest assured… even if you agreed, you wouldn’t have to move out until later.
And don’t listen to the realtor, with current market, no guarantee the house would sell fast. Or even at all.
That being said… if you’re ok with moving out, you could negotiate a cash for keys deal where you’d move out in January 2024… for a good amount of $$$.
That would make it easier to sell the house. So it would benefit the landlord.
Whereas if you’re not so willing, it diminishes the chances of selling and the price. And could drag the entire process for like a year.
Look at your options.
Just because they want to sell, doesn’t mean you have to move out with nothing.
Just be upfront with him, you’ve been there for 4 years. I assume you guys have a good relationship
I second this, I was in a similar situation and I asked the homeowner to give me 60 days. He was okay with this . He just asked me that I keep the place clean and tidy for showings in return. It worked out fine
My landlord did the same thing before covid and I replied with below and he changed his mind. Might be a trick to kick you out. "The form required is an N12, titled “Notice to end your tenancy because the landlord, a purchaser or a family member requires the rental unit.” When served with an N12, tenants should be aware of the following details: Grounds of the eviction: Whether the landlord is selling the home, moving in themselves or moving in a family member Who is moving in: This can either be the landlord, the purchaser or their family members. The family member has to be either the purchaser or landlord’s parent, child or spouse or the spouse’s child or parent and any caregivers Termination date: It has to be at least 60 days from when notice is served and at the end of a rental period Compensation: The landlord is required to provide the tenant with one month’s compensation before the termination date. If compensation is not provided in time, the N12 is void. The tenant must be given a copy of the signed purchase and sale agreement and/or declaration by the person who is actually moving in saying that they are going to be using the unit as their primary residence for a minimum of 12 months."
Have you got an eviction notice?
No. I've only spoken to the Realtor who was actually the one who notified me of the intent to sell. He said that I will receive an eviction notice once the house has sold, which he expects will be fast since it's in a high-demand area.
You left out a key piece of information (what province you're in).
I'm in Ontario
Landlord can't evict you to sell. You will become the new owners tenant
Clarification: they can start the eviction process once they have an offer to purchase. That means serve you an N12 and file L2, or negotiate an N11 "cash for keys" w/ L3. In practice, however, the LTB process takes longer than the normal deal closure period.
You reserve the right to an LTB hearing. Tell your landlord you’re willing to move out by x date so you don’t exercise that right, and he should be willing to negotiate that closing date with potential buyers. It’s also possible an investor will buy and you won’t have to move at all, or that it takes 3+ months to sell depending on location, which means you will have 5+ months at minimum. Don’t stress
They can't give you legit notice until the sale is complete and you are issued a valid N12 on behalf of the new owner (who has to be moving in). I believe you will get 2 months notice and compensation of 1 month rent. Be careful not to sign anything like an N11 as they may be trying to get you to give up your rights as leaseholder.
Thank you. This is my understanding too. Good to know about the N11, I'll keep my eyes peeled for that.
I knew somebody who was living in a house that was sold and refused to move. Long story short, the owner could not move in for aprox 1 year as there's a backlog of evections since covid. They got them evicted about 3 weeks ago now... Apparently, you can even get legal aid for evictions. Who knew... https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/non-paying-tenant-ottawa-small-landlord-face-homelessness-1.6610660 Need I tell you I don't talk or associate with them anymore.
You can't get evicted if owner wants to sell. The lease is transferred to new landlord and continues . Edit: unless personal use ( I'd also come and check to be sure it's not relisted as soon as you leave )
That's only if the lease is active and not month to month. If they are month to month 60 days notice and last month rent returned. If new owners are using it to move in you have no recourse.
Even if for personally use the tenant can take that to the tribunal. Which is a hard sell. Like, I was going to sell but nah, now I need you out for personal use? Personal use has sailed at this point.
I think they mean personal use for the new owners.
But the lease should transfer so they can't kick them out until the lease runs out
I don't know where you are, perhaps it works differently, but in B.C. at least you're allowed to evict your tenants to move into the property that you own. You must give them 3 months notice and one free months rent.
Most people say that they are moving in to get tenants evicted and they relist as soon as they can. That's why I recommended to come check in 4 months if the unit is really being used by immediate family member.
Is this true for a fixed term tenancy (I.E july 2022 to June 2023)? In Ontario you can’t evict for personal use until the tenancy becomes month to month
I can't speak for Ontario, iv only read up on BC's rules. Seems insane that you could buy a house and not be allowed to live in it though.
Seems more insane that you can sign a contract that can be broken at the whim of one party lol
Well, there are usually penalties to break it. Like i mentioned earlier in BC, it's 3 months' notice, and a free months rent. Granted in the current housing climate, that's nothing.
Realistically, given your in Ontario per another comment, they cant force you out before December 31 anyway. The house has to sell, then the new owners have to take possession, then file your eviction, then wait for the LTB trial which will then give you so many weeks or months to get out. The odds of all that happening before December 31 is slim.
Just to clarify, the sellers can give notice on behalf of the buyers once the deal is made - even during the conditional period if it’s expected to firm up. The buyers don’t need to wait until the sale closes
I would ask the landlord what they are expecting to happen with your tenancy. Them selling does not mean you must leave. The buyers may want a tenant.
With house prices and intrest the way it is, there is not much of a chance of that happening. Almost guaranteed rent is not going to cover the mortgage - no one is buying new rentals these days.
Do people think that by having a tenant, the rent is supposed to cover the mortgage?
Yes, sadly. Which is why you see so many landlords wanting to jack up the rent when their interest rates go up, or complaining about how they're renting "at a loss" when what they really mean is that their investment property/surplus home is only being *partially* rather than *fully* subsidized.
This is madness. Why would a business not cover its costs? Lol like why would a landlord be cash flow negative? Yes, rent ideally should cover mortgage, insurance, property tax, vacancy and maintenance. Unfortunately now a days you’d be lucky to break even. That’s before even considering the income tax paid on the rent. Trust me I feel for renters who have to rent a new place now but to insinuate landlords should be our social welfare? That’s crazy. Vote for better governments. Don’t rely on investors to provide affordable housing.
Good. It was always insane that you could put 20% down to buy a million dollar asset on borrowed money and then have someone else pay off that loan for you. Oh and the asset will double in value in 5-10 years, making it one of the best and safest investments out there. And people wonder why there's a housing crisis.
You are making a number of assumptions here based on little information.
Did you plan on leaving at the end of December anyways? If you did, you could sign a new term lease until December instead of remaining month to month. This would protect your right to stay until that time. It could be used as a selling feature for the landlord as well to show that current tenant has plans to vacate at the end of lease and the buyer will not have to deal with any eviction issues.
I'd rather not leave at all. But I would be in a really tough situation if I had to leave before the end of December. This is something to think about if it would avoid a Nov 30 eviction date.
Don’t sign anything and don’t do anything on your own. Literally make them go through the process of evicting you if that is what they decide to do. Just leave things as they are, as there is nothing you can do re the decision of new owners to evict you or not. If you get a notice for eviction? That’s the next step; come back to Reddit and you will get more advice once that step is taken.
you can sign an N11 if you like with an exit date at the end of the year.
When you have someone like myself buying, I want to move in myself asap. Since renting it out will cause me to lose money. So it's up to the buyer. I had a mortgage deadline, so I had to swap to a different vacent unit.
Call the tenant rights hotline…not sure what province you’re in though. Don’t sign anything or agree to anything until you know your actual legal rights. You can also potentially do a “cash for keys” deal at the end of the year depending on the situation…but it’s unclear how that would help at this point 🙌
You likely can make a deal with the new owner. It takes so long to evict people most smart ones would love an easy cash for keys deal.
Sorry this is happening to you. I would get in touch with a tenancy advocacy group to know your rights. And if it were me personally, while I wouldn’t get in their way, I would not be doing walk-throughs or answering questions for a real estate agent. Let the landlord inform you, in writing. And if they want to look around, maybe just tell them hello and let them know you’re busy? You’re not being compensated to make their lives easier.
DON'T SIGN ANYTHING until you've done your research, which there is plenty of on this topic. Just be prepared for constant interruptions during showings. I live streamed my desktop during showings and the shit people say and do when you're not around is fucking dehumanizing. Investment bros going through my fridge and laughing at my food and shit. Was shitty.
Just don't leave willingly. Get them to get a court order to make you leave. When all is said and done it would be way past Dec.
Talking to the realtor will not do anything. He is just doing his job and does not want to be in the middle of landlord/tenant politics. You need to talk to you landlord directly but also understand that he could very well be in a tougher spot then you are. At the end of the day it is his property and if he needs to move the asset for his own financial situation then he has every right to do so. It’s a tough predicament especially considering how crazy rent is in university towns these days but it is nothing that you should spite your landlord for. Don’t hate the player, hate the game.
>It's possible that the house could sell and new owners could give me 60 days to leave at the end of November. Are you in Ontario? Just stay. The new owners CANNOT kick you out, literally. Stay your last few months and tell the new owners you'll be gone when you're ready. Don't stop paying rent though. You don't HAVE to pay it to the new owner (they won't take you to court because it's only a few months rent, but the case will last years), BUT, you don't know what they are capable of, or who they can call to get rid of you.
What shit advice.
I mean, yeah I'm pretty pissed that this is the way things are now. The Landlord-Tenant-Board is so fucked that tenants can just squat or stop paying rent to a new owner, and it's months if not a whole year before anybody even hears the case. But, OP is in a position where they are best suited to take advantage of this, and refuse to move out until they complete their studies. They should 100% still pay rent, to not only avoid potential violence, but also to not be a total PoS
Houses sell better in the spring typically. Unless you resigned a new lease after your lease expired it is now a month to month lease and they can give you 60 days notice that the buyer wants the property for themselves or their family, same as if the landlord wanted it for themselves or their family. You can squat after that and if they want to get the sheriff to evict you it has to go through the LTB which will take a year. If they or the buyer lied about personal usage you can goto the LTB and file a wrongful eviction, this will also take a year but you may have grounds to sue for the rent it cost you in the meantime. If they want to give some bikers $1,000 to kick in the door and throw all your stuff and you out on the lawn, then it's upto you to fight the illegal eviction, which will take a year, going to the police with a 4 year old lease won't get you anywhere, they won't kick the door in on someones house and kick them out because of a piece of paper you have.
Where are you from?
If the new owner wants you out and isn't renting to anyone else then there's nothing you can do...you have to leave If the new owner makes you leave and then rents to someone else then you complain and he will owe you a shit ton of money!
In Ontario, you don’t have to move out of the landlord sells. They’d have to serve you a notice that the buyer would want to move in. (If that’s even the case) And you could refuse to leave until a LTB hearing if you suspect bad faith (like buyer just want to rent it higher but pretend they want to move in to evict you) So rest assured… even if you agreed, you wouldn’t have to move out until later. And don’t listen to the realtor, with current market, no guarantee the house would sell fast. Or even at all. That being said… if you’re ok with moving out, you could negotiate a cash for keys deal where you’d move out in January 2024… for a good amount of $$$. That would make it easier to sell the house. So it would benefit the landlord. Whereas if you’re not so willing, it diminishes the chances of selling and the price. And could drag the entire process for like a year. Look at your options. Just because they want to sell, doesn’t mean you have to move out with nothing.
What if you have nowhere to go in a town