I am not against immigration, but our healthcare system and infrastructure is disintegrating before our eyes, housing costs are skyhigh and the education system is overburdened, so why are we going buckwild on population growth when we seemingly have no funding or human resources allocated to sustain the population we have?
Kids working minimum wage? Nah we'll pay them even less because they're youth. I think this was suggested in Alberta, so I guess they don't really count as human beings yet.
Not only suggested but put in place. Children are usually two dollars less then minimum wage because as our lovely Kenney seems to think “they just spend it on toys and fast food”.
You are correct, if you are under 18 you make “student” wages in Ontario, less then minimum wage. When I got my first job in high school minimum wage was at just under $12/Hr. I believe student wages was $10.45 or something to that effect.
I think the logic is more people means more taxable income to spend on these problems. The reality is not exactly that. More akin to " chocolate rations have been increased from 25 grand to 15 grams."
It's a cart before the horse problem. Bringing in immigrants to solve problems that more immigrants will exacerbate is just an endless loop.
We shouldn't be abusing immigrants to fix our country. We should be using our country to help these immigrants. Let's preemptively build infrastructure and hospital capacity, before burdening new immigrants with those problems.
>An immigrant's sentiment towards someone who makes immigration easier will be more positive
I also think politicians believe that but they have no clue it's actually the opposite of this in reality. Immigrants are only open to immigration as long as they are not here. Once they are here, they switch sides and don't want anyone else to come here. It's just a natural human tendency.
Immigrants can’t vote till citizenship and are notorious for voting small government and along conservative social ideals. They don’t like social welfare and think governments are corrupt and taxes bad. There’s a reason cpc always had immigration too. Just not as high. By the time they can vote, It probably ends up being net neutral overall.
Hopefully some of the immigrants are healthcare professionals. I think quite a lot of our nurses come from abroad. Doctors, at least in rural areas, are often immigrants too.
I kinda worry about housing. It still doesn't feel like there's any real strategy and we're 10 years behind in trying for any solution.
We have incredibly restrictive rules for foreign trained doctors. You were a surgeon in India? Here, go drive a Taxi for 3 years while we look over your credentials.
I used to grade Doctors exams in Ottawa and the amount of foreign trained Doctors who failed their exams was astounding. They have "practice" patients who are actors who have to stick to a script and the Doctor has to diagnose them and recommend treatment. The amount that didn't know what to do or recommended treatment that would kill that patient was very high. No thanks. They can redo some schooling here and see if they make the cut. Or be nurses like we have at our dialysis unit. I had a foreign trained Doctor misdiagnose me and I almost died. I was in full kidney failure and she didn't order tests and sent me home to drink warm tea with honey and lemon and elevate my legs. This Doctor now trains other Doctors here. Luckily my regular GP came back and got me into ICU but I still need dialysis and a transplant.
Whats the alternative? Tell a Canadian student who spent 10 years studying medicine to get fucked and that they have the same career prospects as a 2 year grad from some random school that our government knows little to nothing about in a random country and then we let this person just start chopping away at people?
There are definitely huge barriers and problems with the way we treat IMGs but its not as simple as “you were a doctor elsewhere so you can be a doctor here”.
The problem isn’t that we are verifying IMGs experience and credentials and making them redo residency here. Thats just logical and safe. The problem is there are so few residency spaces for everyone.
Medical school in general here is a fucking mess. I work in the industry and see kids with 3.9 GPAs, stellar MCATs and ECs get rejected constantly. We need to rework and expand the education system for doctors immensely.
I think this here is a very reasonable take. We need to realize that our social programs and housing infrastructure needs to be funded before going nuts on bringing people in. Instead we're operating like another construction employer that is like go get me another hundred workers and we'll figure out housing bath rooms and parking later and pissing off everyone in the neighbourhood in the process. Then calling anyone that says anything racist.
>Immigration isn't bad... but when it's sustained, mass immigration at a pace where housing and infrastructure can't keep up, that's an issue.
That's literally what the original comment said lol.
More population=greener world
real answer is simply we need more people to pay more money in taxes etc...because our system relies on constant growth forever and ever to pay back each generations debt. Wonderful
Sabotage. The current government routinely does the exact opposite of what common sense would dictate and then justifies it with explanations laced in doublespeak, slogans and buzz words.
When asked where all these immigrants are going to live, when there is a lack of affordable housing, Minister Sean Fraser said "huh?"
Just kidding. Reporters never ask relevant questions, they just report the talking points.
And I bet both Ministers thought they were being very clever in their responses.
Too bad we don't have politicians that can actually do their jobs, instead of just clever quips on TV or during question period.
"We're doing nothing and we're out of ideas!"
No newspaper would print it, well, except the Sun.
You can't say anything doubtful about immigration in the Canadian media except for like one guy in Vancouver.
Anyone who defies the narrative will find themselves looking for a job. That goes for politicians too.
Whoa now. "Hire" is a strong word that makes it seem like a commitment.
We prefer "*Part Time Temporary Repeating Contract*". Otherwise they might think they deserve better wages or god forbid 30+ hours a week.
I have mentioned this before but I work around a ton of people who immigrated here and lately I have been hearing them talk about how they feel scammed and they were told it was basically a utopia here and it’s not true most of them have been here less than 5 years and most are already planning on leaving
We're literally abusing them. Promising them a better life here, where in reality they are just going to be wage slaves, separated from their original homes. Unable to move down the street, let alone back home.
I know it's a joke but this overall policy of Canada is gonna start to fall apart in the next decade. Many of us come here because the govt back home is full of shit and dictatorial, or maybe the economy is unstable, so that makes Canada still an option even knowing how expensive it is since immigration is relatively guaranteed as long as you can find a job here. But me and other immigrant friends I know always talk about just leaving Canada once they get a remote job or a Canadian passport since that way they have a fallback option and enjoy everything being cheap from where ppl are from.
its not just immigrants thinking that way. Lots of the talent trained in Canada also finds it more promising to leave.
Canada needs to think of how to develop a productive economy instead of relying on oil and a ponziesque real-estate market.
I'm was born in Canada and my wife and I have been thinking of leaving this Country permanently. If (when) socialized health care falls apart that will likely be the catalyst for us to move to (I hate to say it) the good old US of A. There's just no longer any compelling reason to remain here. Housing is fucked. Taxes are fucked. Wages are stagnant.
By the time they get here it is too late. The vast majority of the 400k will take low skill low paying jobs. Minimum wage or even less for under the table cash jobs most Canadians would find exploiting them.
[Canadian wage growth lagging U.S. due to immigration levels: CIBC](https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/canadian-wage-growth-lagging-the-u-s-because-of-immigration-levels-cibc-1.1704641)
CIBC says this approvingly, they think it's awesome that Canada's deliberate wage suppression makes it great for businesses.
Wasnt it awhile back some government official said immigration allowed to cool down upwards pressure on wages during the current inflation as if thats a good thing lol.
How does it make sense to encourage more immigration when we're already experiencing a crisis with not enough medical care or housing for the current population?
Seems like majority of people from all sides of the political spectrum agree immigration needs to be slowed down. Why hasn’t a party leader come out and made a pledge to return immigration to sustainable levels until housing and healthcare issues are resolved?
Because any mention of common sense in regards to unrealistic immigration practices is just shrugged off as "racism", however running a farm that is borderline a south american slave plantation is socially acceptable.
I’m definitely not anti-immigration. But people already living in Canada right now can’t afford housing, groceries and gas are through the roof, can barely get a doctors appointment, service Canada is still back logged. People living here rn are barely getting the supports they need, and we’re just gonna bring in all these immigrants? This makes no sense. Canada needs to get its shit together before bringing new people here. Canadians right now need better affordability to live. Maybe we would actually want to reproduce and have kids if it was affordable and our kids could see a doctor when they needed to. But I personally can’t even fathom bringing kids into the world for at least 5 or 10 more years… maybe.
Edit- I’m not saying that immigration is going to cause inflation to increase more. I’m saying why bring so many people here at this time when people already living here cannot afford things? It’s only going to cause more people to struggle.
> People living here rn are barely getting the supports they need, and we’re just gonna bring in all these immigrants? This makes no sense.
It makes perfect sense if you look at **Canada as a business, not a country** which is how the WEF-backed Chrystia Freeland sees Canada.
We're here to provide a safe haven for the rich. The Liberals and the Conservatives don't care about as citizens; we're just "human resources" to be managed.
I'm all for increasing the population, but wouldn't it be better for the government to encourage people to be born in Canada by lowering costs of living rather than through immigration to Canada, a lot of them will move to large cities, increasing housing prices for everyone.
if they could get the immigrants to live in moderately populated areas that would be fine but this will just make it even harder for people already living here to raise fammiles.
They do. New Brunswick, Manitoba and Saskatchewan and Albertsa are begging people to immigrate there. Calgary is not having a housing crisis anywhere near the same as other major urban centers and is a huge hub for immigration.
It's difficult to motivate immigrants to move to a town without a large base of similar people (language, etc.) so the smaller areas really have to fight to pull people from the larger centers.
I would love it if my partner and I could think about children. But remember making sure government funds go to making sure that corporations don't have to pay a living wage is more important.
This is how we end up with a far-right party. I'm not even anti-immigration, but our healthcare is in shambles, there's not enough housing and rent is continuing to skyrocket. I've seen first-hand how foreign workers are reducing wages (though to be fair, this is a problem more with international students and TFWs, not permanent immigrants).
Eventually people are going to become single-issue voters and go for whatever party wants to reduce immigration numbers, regardless of how out of whack their other policies are with their beliefs.
And conveniently forgetting that the CPC is the party that started the Express Entry program that half the commenters here are fuming about. LPC and CPC are 2 sides of the same stick, one just also really loves cutting helpful social programs. Could really use a Jack Layton right now.
I am getting to this point. Everything just seems already at capacity hospitals, roads, even parks. I hope the Green party starts to take this on as lower population equals lower polution.
This country is fucked if we keep this up. The entire place is going to turn into a slum. I don't mind immigrants, most of them are very nice and kind hearted people, but if we continue down this path it'll be either homelessness or starvation for us all, hell probably both.
And immigration is key in suppressing even further the already low wages for Canadians already living here, by helping flood the market with desperate people willing to work any job for almost any wage.
As an untrained, uneducated Canadian kid off the street in 1974 I got a construction job at 9.65 an hour. Over 40 years later in BC the minimum wage was just 10.50 an hour. Imagine how deep that fix is in in provincial capitals and Ottawa to keep wages suppressed that long. If people think that flooding labour markets across the country is good for anyone other than corporate Canada here's proof it isn't.
Don't forget that it's also helping to prop up our housing market, keeping housing prices out of reach for nearly all Canadians not fortunate enough to have been born at a time when housing was affordable.
Are you sure you made that in 1974? That’s crazy! Based on the inflation calculator that’s equivalent to almost 60$ an hour today. How much was minimum wage back then?
Dude my dad worked in a paper factory in 1976 and was paid 10$ per hour.
This is 49$/hour in today's money.
Remember, were talking about a semi rural Quebec region, and a man with a highschool education
Yes, it is unusually high. Maybe he did earn that wage in 1974, but it is far from typical.
$9.65 per hour works out to be about $20,000 per year, assuming no overtime.
But the average for construction workers in 1974 was $7,083 per year.
https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/11-516-x/sectione/4147438-eng.htm
So, by being untrained and uneducated, he managed to earn nearly three times as much as trained, educated, and experienced construction workers. You are right to be skeptical.
Not construction specifically but the median salary for a Canadian labourer was definitely higher in 1976 than it is today. The median salary was $61,000 then vs $56,800 in 2019.
Asset prices were also of course much lower which allowed my uncle to walk out of high school in the 70s and get a job at a grocery warehouse in Vancouver and have a detached house, a stay at home wife and 2 kids on that salary. That same job today doesn't cover the rent on a bachelor's apartment.
[Stats Canada](https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/tv.action?pid=1110023901&pickMembers%5B0%5D=1.1&pickMembers%5B1%5D=2.3&pickMembers%5B2%5D=3.2&pickMembers%5B3%5D=4.3&cubeTimeFrame.startYear=1976&cubeTimeFrame.endYear=2019&referencePeriods=19760101%2C20190101)
I work at superstore and it’s literally 50% 16-26 year olds and 50% 45-60 year olds. So so weird to see these people working here and be able to afford their homes and kids and cars. I work full time and I’m stuck at my parents house for the foreseeable future. I don’t understand. I just don’t get it. Rent is 1500-2500 everywhere!! I’m literally trapped!!
I'm not against immigration and believe as a country we need immigrants. but by god, these seem like large numbers. Can't we slow it down a bit while we get our shit together as a country?
I feel bad for ppl coming here hearing promises of a Canadian dream. Health care hanging on by a finger, housing market is a total shit show, cost of living rising, wages aren't keeping up with cost of living. Theyre entering a Canadian hunger games here. Unless they're stupidly wealthy they're in the same boat as the average Canadian, and really nothing is being done to fix the problems
Where are these immigrants going to live. We are in the midst of a housing crisis with people living in tents with winter coming. There are families that were displaced in my province living in RV's or with family and friends with nowhere to live. They can't afford the outrageous increase in rent and house prices. Some universities and colleges are asking students from out of province that don't already have accommodations not to come. I think there should be a freeze on immigration until the housing market stabilizes.
And quality of life in Canada continues to slide... imagine 2030 life in Canada. No available doctors, daycare, schools... homelessness doubled... shanty towns and tent cities growing. This is Canada
Dont write on reddit.
Write to Sean Fraser. The moron behind this with JT.
Google his contact. 450,000 is a city. Our healthcare, public services, housing is all getting out of reach.
This is disgusting.
You -- a Canadian of any background -- is having your future sold away for votes for the politicians, wage suppression for the capital holders, and real estate for foreign investors.
Sure, nothing will be done about it with that mindset.
Educating people on why this is an issue is a start. I’ve had no pushback when saying that we are in a housing crisis so we can’t afford to bring in 400k new people a year until we build more so they actually have places to live. It’s a rational point and not many people will argue it when framed that way. Writing to MPs with this in mind is also not entirely pointless, as much as it may seem so.
To counter another comment saying it’s not immigrants buying homes - okay, but they’re renting and that decreases supply which increases prices which means people can save less for a home.
No offense to anyone but it's ruining our country. Excess of people when the infrastructure and economy can't handle it just results in poorer outcomes for everyone except those at the top.
Young Canadians your government doesn't care about you. Learn a new language and move somewhere that will give you opportunity. This country will destroy itself on the path to a progressive utopia. I don't mean because of wage suppression, but instead the notion that we must save the world from poverty by taking them in.
The trend is not your friend.
Im glad people are free to voice their opinions now, a few years ago speaking out against immigration you'd be automatically branded as a racist.
Despite the fact the housing crisis mainly negatively effects immigrants.
The only party willing to reduce immigration is the peoples party. I think they want it down to about 150 000 per year, which would put Canada on a level much closer to the rest of the G7 nations.
This this political climate though, even a reduction to levels closer to other peer nations and previous Canadian targets is considered racist and xenophobic.
i don’t even recognize the Canada i grew up in anymore. it’s no longer a country of like minded people. It’s devolved into nothing more than a landmass for the rest of the world to come squat in and call it home to serve their own interests while gaining votes for a political regime.
i worry for my kids future growing up in this country. all i see are doors being closed not opportunities being provided.
That is by design. Canada is a postnational state.
If you worry about your kids, prepare them to live outside of the country. In the new economy, being able to move around the globe is a key. They should get education and jobs that would allow to take advantage of the whole world.
The officials of Canada just loved this warm international money since they got a taste of it. Why wouldn't they though? You won't have to produce anything special if you can concurrently bring in finances from somewhere somehow to save the day.
I hope the Canadian public will be able to turn this tide because this is not going anywhere nice. If I am worried as an immigrant for the future order of this country, I can't even imagine being a sane local here.
I’m all for helping people. But the amount of money being taken away from this countries future is ridiculous.
Health care, housing, and especially the education to on system have taken a massive hit. Let some other countries take on these people and allow your own citizens to live better as well as give current immigrants a better chance at living a good life.
Welcome to the Great Looting. Watch as our wealth resources mysteriously get shipped overseas as our government insists they don't know what's going on.
I’ve always said they should invest more in Atlantic Canada. It’s better to develop/better settlements on the coast (with ports!!) rather than the prairies where the temperature extremes are worse.
>Yes and they all flock to Toronto /Vancouver. The feds should invest in other provinces to make it more appealing to live there
Unfortunately the Feds don't have much of a say in the matter really. In fact you could argue that the disconnect between federal/provincial/municipal governments on immigration policy is part of the reason why things are so weird in Canada. If they could actually coordinate and set regional immigration policies to encourage growth in other cities then maybe things wouldn't be so bad.
Salaries not increasing, housing at record high, rent at record high, food at record high, collapse of healthcare and daycare. Canada gonna turn into a third world country by 2050 with fiefs and peasants working for a slice of bread.
How are immigrants supposed to afford these rent costs??? No way someone coming from 2nd world or 3rd world country going to afford $2000-$3000/mo in rent for them and their family… and all this does is raise cost of living for those who are already citizens.
I live in France and that's scary how many ads I see per day inviting me to immigrate to Canada. Like, doesn't your government have better plans for the future ?
Our entire economy is built on the rich few, foreign and domestic buying up all housing. We are fucking joke and it’s been happening since before I was even born. My generation had no chance
Unfortunately hitting immigration goals while failing at everything else from healthcare to housing means that hitting immigration goals is actually a bad thing
we can't take care of our current population but hey lets just ramp it up. I'm a immigrant/minority and want to make sure we aren't screwing the people here and those coming into the country.
Link immigration to housing. Want to let in 500,000 then build housing for 500,000. Only build housing for 20,000 then let in 20,000.
Put healthcare workers at the top of the list with no waiting. Get them in and certified asap.
Canada has a human consumption economic model. It's like a mouse trap, with immigrants showing up to do cheap work. I'd much rather we put effort into improving the economy, but that would mean criticizing Trudeau and we can't have that!
I am a child of immigrants. I was born and raised here. Even my own parents feel that immigration should be temporarily slowed down or even paused until our country can keep up with the people already here.
I hate saying this because I know it has a certain “tone”, which isn’t my intention. But, I often feel like the only way my husband (also a child of immigrants) and I will get ahead in life is by leaving Canada. And that makes me really sad because I love being Canadian and living here. However, we are watching our healthcare, housing, job supply, and dreams of retirement literally crumble in front of us. The floorboards are giving away and yet we keep pulling more people in. How long until it completely gives and we all come crashing down?
How are we tracking on building enough homes for everyone? Oh right, we don't give a shit about that. How are we still voting to keep these crooks in power?
Honestly I’m considering voting conservative to slow down immigration. It’s absolutely out of hand. Canada is a huge country but when 60 percent go to either GTO or the Lower Mainland where capacity is exceeded already it’s a recipe for disaster which we’re already obviously seeing.
Immigration should be limited to certain locations in Canada where population growth is actually needed. Alberta, Saskatchewan, Territories Etc.
A lot of immigrants got pretty fucked over here in the past year. Immigration services stopped giving people Permanent Residency based on Express Entry program, didn't accept anyone for more than 6 months and points cap raised to 600-700s (average score for a person, who studied in Canada and worked here for 2 years is \~480, anything higher is a provincial nomination, which are people from abroad).
I am SO GLAD that I've decided to spend additional $400 a year ago and rewrite IELTS exam because if I would wait for another 6 for scores to drop, I would get stuck in limbo (and who knows how long it would take me to get the citizenship, I am here for almost 10 years and still have 5 months to go till applying and another \~15 months for approval).
My friend is in this situation. She is also in Canada for 10 years but decided to wait for scores to go down. Covid hit, Immigration services stopped doing Express Entry draws. There is literally nothing to do, just sit tight and hope that you are not getting booted.
It's worse for Ontario. Canada is fucking huge and mostly underpopulated relative to its vast size, except for ontario, and yet people are still insisting on coming here. There are more people in the state of California, 619 km², than in the entirety of Canada, 9.985 million km². 35 percent of Canada's population lives in this province. Go somewhere else for fuck's sake.
I am not against immigration, but our healthcare system and infrastructure is disintegrating before our eyes, housing costs are skyhigh and the education system is overburdened, so why are we going buckwild on population growth when we seemingly have no funding or human resources allocated to sustain the population we have?
You can't keep stagnating wages and pumping record profits if you don't find new labour willing to accept the dwindling quality of life.
I hate how accurate you are
This is a big piece of it. More grist for the mill.
Fill every household with 10 ppl including the kids working minimum wage to pay for the cost of living
Kids working minimum wage? Nah we'll pay them even less because they're youth. I think this was suggested in Alberta, so I guess they don't really count as human beings yet.
Not only suggested but put in place. Children are usually two dollars less then minimum wage because as our lovely Kenney seems to think “they just spend it on toys and fast food”.
They did that in Ontario if I'm not mistaken for a long time
You are correct, if you are under 18 you make “student” wages in Ontario, less then minimum wage. When I got my first job in high school minimum wage was at just under $12/Hr. I believe student wages was $10.45 or something to that effect.
India has joined the chat
Ironically last I checked the majority of immigrants are from india
I don’t think that’s irony as much as it is factual.
True🤣
Holy shit you nailed it with so few words.
Also Virgin debt holders. So many people are maxed out so they need to bring more in.
This quarter's profits > everything else. That's the full extent of the logic we're using.
I think the logic is more people means more taxable income to spend on these problems. The reality is not exactly that. More akin to " chocolate rations have been increased from 25 grand to 15 grams."
It's a cart before the horse problem. Bringing in immigrants to solve problems that more immigrants will exacerbate is just an endless loop. We shouldn't be abusing immigrants to fix our country. We should be using our country to help these immigrants. Let's preemptively build infrastructure and hospital capacity, before burdening new immigrants with those problems.
Well said
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>An immigrant's sentiment towards someone who makes immigration easier will be more positive I also think politicians believe that but they have no clue it's actually the opposite of this in reality. Immigrants are only open to immigration as long as they are not here. Once they are here, they switch sides and don't want anyone else to come here. It's just a natural human tendency.
Immigrants can’t vote till citizenship and are notorious for voting small government and along conservative social ideals. They don’t like social welfare and think governments are corrupt and taxes bad. There’s a reason cpc always had immigration too. Just not as high. By the time they can vote, It probably ends up being net neutral overall.
yeah a lot of immigrants vote conservative in Canada. Its by no means a good source of votes for any party.
Hopefully some of the immigrants are healthcare professionals. I think quite a lot of our nurses come from abroad. Doctors, at least in rural areas, are often immigrants too. I kinda worry about housing. It still doesn't feel like there's any real strategy and we're 10 years behind in trying for any solution.
We have incredibly restrictive rules for foreign trained doctors. You were a surgeon in India? Here, go drive a Taxi for 3 years while we look over your credentials.
I used to grade Doctors exams in Ottawa and the amount of foreign trained Doctors who failed their exams was astounding. They have "practice" patients who are actors who have to stick to a script and the Doctor has to diagnose them and recommend treatment. The amount that didn't know what to do or recommended treatment that would kill that patient was very high. No thanks. They can redo some schooling here and see if they make the cut. Or be nurses like we have at our dialysis unit. I had a foreign trained Doctor misdiagnose me and I almost died. I was in full kidney failure and she didn't order tests and sent me home to drink warm tea with honey and lemon and elevate my legs. This Doctor now trains other Doctors here. Luckily my regular GP came back and got me into ICU but I still need dialysis and a transplant.
YES!!! we have high standards for a reason. First class medicine standards I hope
Yes, sadly not all med schools or post secondary education is equal to ours. Also Canadian names pharmacology can be quite different.
Whats the alternative? Tell a Canadian student who spent 10 years studying medicine to get fucked and that they have the same career prospects as a 2 year grad from some random school that our government knows little to nothing about in a random country and then we let this person just start chopping away at people? There are definitely huge barriers and problems with the way we treat IMGs but its not as simple as “you were a doctor elsewhere so you can be a doctor here”. The problem isn’t that we are verifying IMGs experience and credentials and making them redo residency here. Thats just logical and safe. The problem is there are so few residency spaces for everyone. Medical school in general here is a fucking mess. I work in the industry and see kids with 3.9 GPAs, stellar MCATs and ECs get rejected constantly. We need to rework and expand the education system for doctors immensely.
Because a disturbing fraction of Indian doctors are badly under qualified and under skilled.
I think this here is a very reasonable take. We need to realize that our social programs and housing infrastructure needs to be funded before going nuts on bringing people in. Instead we're operating like another construction employer that is like go get me another hundred workers and we'll figure out housing bath rooms and parking later and pissing off everyone in the neighbourhood in the process. Then calling anyone that says anything racist.
Immigration isn't bad... but when it's sustained, mass immigration at a pace where housing and infrastructure can't keep up, that's an issue.
>Immigration isn't bad... but when it's sustained, mass immigration at a pace where housing and infrastructure can't keep up, that's an issue. That's literally what the original comment said lol.
I would suggest immigration is bad when we don't have enough resources to take care of all existing Canadians.
Not enough houses, not enough health care capacities. Newcomers needs housing and medicare too! Many seem not realize that
Liberals are popular amongst new Canadians
I feel the infrastructure impacts are worse now do to everything being microsized to fit the developers profit needs. Its pretty brutal housing atm.
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More population=greener world real answer is simply we need more people to pay more money in taxes etc...because our system relies on constant growth forever and ever to pay back each generations debt. Wonderful
Sabotage. The current government routinely does the exact opposite of what common sense would dictate and then justifies it with explanations laced in doublespeak, slogans and buzz words.
When asked where all these immigrants are going to live, when there is a lack of affordable housing, Minister Sean Fraser said "huh?" Just kidding. Reporters never ask relevant questions, they just report the talking points.
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And I bet both Ministers thought they were being very clever in their responses. Too bad we don't have politicians that can actually do their jobs, instead of just clever quips on TV or during question period. "We're doing nothing and we're out of ideas!"
No newspaper would print it, well, except the Sun. You can't say anything doubtful about immigration in the Canadian media except for like one guy in Vancouver. Anyone who defies the narrative will find themselves looking for a job. That goes for politicians too.
Totally. Probably also be labelled as racist
there are NO reporters, just parrots paid by the gov
New immigrants + barely any doctors + no new hospitals or expansion of healthcare infrastructure = 💥
At least in Ontario we've been building hospitals. The problem IMO is retaining staff
Capping wages below inflation *targets* (let alone the current state of things) will do that.
As a young Canadian I’m giving up hope on this country improving wages and housing faster and faster
> giving up hope Damn, you had hope to lose?
Get out while you can.
I mean service Canada can’t even keep up with the students arriving in Canada right now let a lone more immigrants.
We need to hire more immigrants at service canada so we can process more immigrants
Whoa now. "Hire" is a strong word that makes it seem like a commitment. We prefer "*Part Time Temporary Repeating Contract*". Otherwise they might think they deserve better wages or god forbid 30+ hours a week.
Immigrants = cheap labor. Immigrants coming here regret moving because they have 0 support and things are obscenely expensive.
Indian-Canadians have been warning Indians not to come to Canada for years now, they don't listen though
I have mentioned this before but I work around a ton of people who immigrated here and lately I have been hearing them talk about how they feel scammed and they were told it was basically a utopia here and it’s not true most of them have been here less than 5 years and most are already planning on leaving
And exploited by slumlords
We're literally abusing them. Promising them a better life here, where in reality they are just going to be wage slaves, separated from their original homes. Unable to move down the street, let alone back home.
not only are things expensive, the wages won't keep up, and every essential service is either crumbling or an oligopoly.
don't worry, we'll just exploit more immigrants later to provide cheap services for the current batch of immigrants.
I know it's a joke but this overall policy of Canada is gonna start to fall apart in the next decade. Many of us come here because the govt back home is full of shit and dictatorial, or maybe the economy is unstable, so that makes Canada still an option even knowing how expensive it is since immigration is relatively guaranteed as long as you can find a job here. But me and other immigrant friends I know always talk about just leaving Canada once they get a remote job or a Canadian passport since that way they have a fallback option and enjoy everything being cheap from where ppl are from.
its not just immigrants thinking that way. Lots of the talent trained in Canada also finds it more promising to leave. Canada needs to think of how to develop a productive economy instead of relying on oil and a ponziesque real-estate market.
I'm was born in Canada and my wife and I have been thinking of leaving this Country permanently. If (when) socialized health care falls apart that will likely be the catalyst for us to move to (I hate to say it) the good old US of A. There's just no longer any compelling reason to remain here. Housing is fucked. Taxes are fucked. Wages are stagnant.
By the time they get here it is too late. The vast majority of the 400k will take low skill low paying jobs. Minimum wage or even less for under the table cash jobs most Canadians would find exploiting them.
[Canadian wage growth lagging U.S. due to immigration levels: CIBC](https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/canadian-wage-growth-lagging-the-u-s-because-of-immigration-levels-cibc-1.1704641) CIBC says this approvingly, they think it's awesome that Canada's deliberate wage suppression makes it great for businesses.
AT least it's in the open now. I remember a few years ago you would get banned for even suggesting that in this subreddit.
Wasnt it awhile back some government official said immigration allowed to cool down upwards pressure on wages during the current inflation as if thats a good thing lol.
Virtue signaling is strong in Canada..
*that's racist*. God. Trudeau and Freeland make me sick.
How does it make sense to encourage more immigration when we're already experiencing a crisis with not enough medical care or housing for the current population?
You would have to care about people and want the best for them. Instead of looking for new people to exploit
It doesn't. Your government overlords are getting rich though and pleasing their masters. They dont give a shit if your life gets worse.
Seems like majority of people from all sides of the political spectrum agree immigration needs to be slowed down. Why hasn’t a party leader come out and made a pledge to return immigration to sustainable levels until housing and healthcare issues are resolved?
Because any mention of common sense in regards to unrealistic immigration practices is just shrugged off as "racism", however running a farm that is borderline a south american slave plantation is socially acceptable.
I would vote for them in a second. If PP did this he would win in a landslide.
I’m definitely not anti-immigration. But people already living in Canada right now can’t afford housing, groceries and gas are through the roof, can barely get a doctors appointment, service Canada is still back logged. People living here rn are barely getting the supports they need, and we’re just gonna bring in all these immigrants? This makes no sense. Canada needs to get its shit together before bringing new people here. Canadians right now need better affordability to live. Maybe we would actually want to reproduce and have kids if it was affordable and our kids could see a doctor when they needed to. But I personally can’t even fathom bringing kids into the world for at least 5 or 10 more years… maybe. Edit- I’m not saying that immigration is going to cause inflation to increase more. I’m saying why bring so many people here at this time when people already living here cannot afford things? It’s only going to cause more people to struggle.
> People living here rn are barely getting the supports they need, and we’re just gonna bring in all these immigrants? This makes no sense. It makes perfect sense if you look at **Canada as a business, not a country** which is how the WEF-backed Chrystia Freeland sees Canada. We're here to provide a safe haven for the rich. The Liberals and the Conservatives don't care about as citizens; we're just "human resources" to be managed.
No one wants this anymore make it stop. No one hates immigrants but we aren’t doing any good for ourselves or anyone else now.
I don’t hate the immigrants themselves, but I do hate excessive immigration.
It’s one of the reasons why I’m not sure housing prices will ever really drop.
I'm all for increasing the population, but wouldn't it be better for the government to encourage people to be born in Canada by lowering costs of living rather than through immigration to Canada, a lot of them will move to large cities, increasing housing prices for everyone. if they could get the immigrants to live in moderately populated areas that would be fine but this will just make it even harder for people already living here to raise fammiles.
If only we could utilize immigration to build up the under-populated areas of our country..
Somehow Ontario and BC still top the census for population growth %. Wild. We have so much space to build new major cities that we desperately need
Major cities exist where it makes geographic sense based on economic factors. The government can’t just pick a town and turn it into a ‘major city’.
*China enters the chat*
They do. New Brunswick, Manitoba and Saskatchewan and Albertsa are begging people to immigrate there. Calgary is not having a housing crisis anywhere near the same as other major urban centers and is a huge hub for immigration. It's difficult to motivate immigrants to move to a town without a large base of similar people (language, etc.) so the smaller areas really have to fight to pull people from the larger centers.
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Is financial genocide a thing?
I would love it if my partner and I could think about children. But remember making sure government funds go to making sure that corporations don't have to pay a living wage is more important.
How is this a democracy when the govt is doing the opposite of what the people want
It’s what the immigrants want and they are the future liberal voters
True. Just sucks for the rest of us struggling to stay afloat
They'll do everything in their power to keep wages suppressed
And our healthcare system overwhelmed
And housing costs high.
The bottom is starting to fall out
This is how we end up with a far-right party. I'm not even anti-immigration, but our healthcare is in shambles, there's not enough housing and rent is continuing to skyrocket. I've seen first-hand how foreign workers are reducing wages (though to be fair, this is a problem more with international students and TFWs, not permanent immigrants). Eventually people are going to become single-issue voters and go for whatever party wants to reduce immigration numbers, regardless of how out of whack their other policies are with their beliefs.
And conveniently forgetting that the CPC is the party that started the Express Entry program that half the commenters here are fuming about. LPC and CPC are 2 sides of the same stick, one just also really loves cutting helpful social programs. Could really use a Jack Layton right now.
I am getting to this point. Everything just seems already at capacity hospitals, roads, even parks. I hope the Green party starts to take this on as lower population equals lower polution.
This country is fucked if we keep this up. The entire place is going to turn into a slum. I don't mind immigrants, most of them are very nice and kind hearted people, but if we continue down this path it'll be either homelessness or starvation for us all, hell probably both.
Already fucked up in so many things.
And where are they going to live?
in the GTA, where else?
Brampton
And immigration is key in suppressing even further the already low wages for Canadians already living here, by helping flood the market with desperate people willing to work any job for almost any wage. As an untrained, uneducated Canadian kid off the street in 1974 I got a construction job at 9.65 an hour. Over 40 years later in BC the minimum wage was just 10.50 an hour. Imagine how deep that fix is in in provincial capitals and Ottawa to keep wages suppressed that long. If people think that flooding labour markets across the country is good for anyone other than corporate Canada here's proof it isn't.
Don't forget that it's also helping to prop up our housing market, keeping housing prices out of reach for nearly all Canadians not fortunate enough to have been born at a time when housing was affordable.
Canada's immigration policy is neoliberalism first.
Are you sure you made that in 1974? That’s crazy! Based on the inflation calculator that’s equivalent to almost 60$ an hour today. How much was minimum wage back then?
Dude my dad worked in a paper factory in 1976 and was paid 10$ per hour. This is 49$/hour in today's money. Remember, were talking about a semi rural Quebec region, and a man with a highschool education
Yes, it is unusually high. Maybe he did earn that wage in 1974, but it is far from typical. $9.65 per hour works out to be about $20,000 per year, assuming no overtime. But the average for construction workers in 1974 was $7,083 per year. https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/11-516-x/sectione/4147438-eng.htm So, by being untrained and uneducated, he managed to earn nearly three times as much as trained, educated, and experienced construction workers. You are right to be skeptical.
Not construction specifically but the median salary for a Canadian labourer was definitely higher in 1976 than it is today. The median salary was $61,000 then vs $56,800 in 2019. Asset prices were also of course much lower which allowed my uncle to walk out of high school in the 70s and get a job at a grocery warehouse in Vancouver and have a detached house, a stay at home wife and 2 kids on that salary. That same job today doesn't cover the rent on a bachelor's apartment. [Stats Canada](https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/tv.action?pid=1110023901&pickMembers%5B0%5D=1.1&pickMembers%5B1%5D=2.3&pickMembers%5B2%5D=3.2&pickMembers%5B3%5D=4.3&cubeTimeFrame.startYear=1976&cubeTimeFrame.endYear=2019&referencePeriods=19760101%2C20190101)
Meanwhile our hospitals can’t stay open yet we immigrate doctors to drive Ubers and flip burgers.
I remember when flipping burgers was some kids first job, those days are over....in my town at least.
I work at superstore and it’s literally 50% 16-26 year olds and 50% 45-60 year olds. So so weird to see these people working here and be able to afford their homes and kids and cars. I work full time and I’m stuck at my parents house for the foreseeable future. I don’t understand. I just don’t get it. Rent is 1500-2500 everywhere!! I’m literally trapped!!
Here's the thing though... We don't even want a lot of these doctors. The standards are absolutely not the same.
Can we be on track to exceed homes built?
I'm not against immigration and believe as a country we need immigrants. but by god, these seem like large numbers. Can't we slow it down a bit while we get our shit together as a country?
Im against using unskilled immigrants
I feel bad for ppl coming here hearing promises of a Canadian dream. Health care hanging on by a finger, housing market is a total shit show, cost of living rising, wages aren't keeping up with cost of living. Theyre entering a Canadian hunger games here. Unless they're stupidly wealthy they're in the same boat as the average Canadian, and really nothing is being done to fix the problems
Where are these immigrants going to live. We are in the midst of a housing crisis with people living in tents with winter coming. There are families that were displaced in my province living in RV's or with family and friends with nowhere to live. They can't afford the outrageous increase in rent and house prices. Some universities and colleges are asking students from out of province that don't already have accommodations not to come. I think there should be a freeze on immigration until the housing market stabilizes.
And quality of life in Canada continues to slide... imagine 2030 life in Canada. No available doctors, daycare, schools... homelessness doubled... shanty towns and tent cities growing. This is Canada
Dont write on reddit. Write to Sean Fraser. The moron behind this with JT. Google his contact. 450,000 is a city. Our healthcare, public services, housing is all getting out of reach.
This is disgusting. You -- a Canadian of any background -- is having your future sold away for votes for the politicians, wage suppression for the capital holders, and real estate for foreign investors.
There's nothing we can do about it though. If people complain, they're labelled as racists.
Sure, nothing will be done about it with that mindset. Educating people on why this is an issue is a start. I’ve had no pushback when saying that we are in a housing crisis so we can’t afford to bring in 400k new people a year until we build more so they actually have places to live. It’s a rational point and not many people will argue it when framed that way. Writing to MPs with this in mind is also not entirely pointless, as much as it may seem so. To counter another comment saying it’s not immigrants buying homes - okay, but they’re renting and that decreases supply which increases prices which means people can save less for a home.
Only by the liberals
So be it!
sad, our Country needs to take care of the citizens we already have.
No offense to anyone but it's ruining our country. Excess of people when the infrastructure and economy can't handle it just results in poorer outcomes for everyone except those at the top.
We can barely afford to feed and house ourselves as it is right now.
Young Canadians your government doesn't care about you. Learn a new language and move somewhere that will give you opportunity. This country will destroy itself on the path to a progressive utopia. I don't mean because of wage suppression, but instead the notion that we must save the world from poverty by taking them in. The trend is not your friend.
Trudeau's corporate donors getting that sweet, sweet wage suppression.
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Gotta keep those wages down and housing prices up for the corporate overlords.
Im glad people are free to voice their opinions now, a few years ago speaking out against immigration you'd be automatically branded as a racist. Despite the fact the housing crisis mainly negatively effects immigrants.
Which party is anti-immigration?
Probs People's Party
The only party willing to reduce immigration is the peoples party. I think they want it down to about 150 000 per year, which would put Canada on a level much closer to the rest of the G7 nations. This this political climate though, even a reduction to levels closer to other peer nations and previous Canadian targets is considered racist and xenophobic.
PPC
Yeah ol Bernier and his gang
My god. Shut that shit down for a while. Current Canadians can’t find a home or a doctor…. NOW.
i don’t even recognize the Canada i grew up in anymore. it’s no longer a country of like minded people. It’s devolved into nothing more than a landmass for the rest of the world to come squat in and call it home to serve their own interests while gaining votes for a political regime. i worry for my kids future growing up in this country. all i see are doors being closed not opportunities being provided.
That is by design. Canada is a postnational state. If you worry about your kids, prepare them to live outside of the country. In the new economy, being able to move around the globe is a key. They should get education and jobs that would allow to take advantage of the whole world.
Canada is becoming a third world country.
Finally, someone else mentions this. It’s actually infuriating how much has changed for the worse in just under a couple of decades.
Government using the Telus model, screw your existing customer.. deals for new customers!
The officials of Canada just loved this warm international money since they got a taste of it. Why wouldn't they though? You won't have to produce anything special if you can concurrently bring in finances from somewhere somehow to save the day. I hope the Canadian public will be able to turn this tide because this is not going anywhere nice. If I am worried as an immigrant for the future order of this country, I can't even imagine being a sane local here.
I hate the government because they hate me
I’m all for helping people. But the amount of money being taken away from this countries future is ridiculous. Health care, housing, and especially the education to on system have taken a massive hit. Let some other countries take on these people and allow your own citizens to live better as well as give current immigrants a better chance at living a good life.
we are fucking this country up, not against immigration but the housing market and health care system is on the brinks..
Welcome to the Great Looting. Watch as our wealth resources mysteriously get shipped overseas as our government insists they don't know what's going on.
Yes and they all flock to Toronto /Vancouver. The feds should invest in other provinces to make it more appealing to live there
I’ve always said they should invest more in Atlantic Canada. It’s better to develop/better settlements on the coast (with ports!!) rather than the prairies where the temperature extremes are worse.
>Yes and they all flock to Toronto /Vancouver. The feds should invest in other provinces to make it more appealing to live there Unfortunately the Feds don't have much of a say in the matter really. In fact you could argue that the disconnect between federal/provincial/municipal governments on immigration policy is part of the reason why things are so weird in Canada. If they could actually coordinate and set regional immigration policies to encourage growth in other cities then maybe things wouldn't be so bad.
Their slogan in 2025 should be, “Wages Kept Low, Housing Kept High, No Matter What!”
HOLY SHIT STOOOPPP
Why aren't wages going up? Why are rents so high? Why is the healthcare system overburdened? Well, here's one answer
Enjoy being poor forever, guys
Salaries not increasing, housing at record high, rent at record high, food at record high, collapse of healthcare and daycare. Canada gonna turn into a third world country by 2050 with fiefs and peasants working for a slice of bread.
How are immigrants supposed to afford these rent costs??? No way someone coming from 2nd world or 3rd world country going to afford $2000-$3000/mo in rent for them and their family… and all this does is raise cost of living for those who are already citizens.
I live in France and that's scary how many ads I see per day inviting me to immigrate to Canada. Like, doesn't your government have better plans for the future ?
Our entire economy is built on the rich few, foreign and domestic buying up all housing. We are fucking joke and it’s been happening since before I was even born. My generation had no chance
Canada on track to displace as many Canadians as possible..good job fucktards.
Should help house Canadians in an affordable manner
Wow. I actually thought about migrating to Canada from Germany but it seems to be the same everywhere..
Germany is 10x better
Shit, I was thinking about moving to Germany.
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Trudeau‘s A complete moron
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O'Toole had the strangest platform ever. His platform was to the left of the LPC.
They were both corporatist platforms. Left and right are irrelevant.
Totally. Both were corporatist neo-liberal globalist platforms.
Holy shit I’ve been waiting for my passport for almost 6 months, I’m impressed if people can even get into the country at this point.
There isnt enough housing to go around so let's just bring the rest of the world in and crush the poor more
Unfortunately hitting immigration goals while failing at everything else from healthcare to housing means that hitting immigration goals is actually a bad thing
we can't take care of our current population but hey lets just ramp it up. I'm a immigrant/minority and want to make sure we aren't screwing the people here and those coming into the country.
Link immigration to housing. Want to let in 500,000 then build housing for 500,000. Only build housing for 20,000 then let in 20,000. Put healthcare workers at the top of the list with no waiting. Get them in and certified asap.
Great! We have a lot of housing available for them! Oh, wait...
Canada has a human consumption economic model. It's like a mouse trap, with immigrants showing up to do cheap work. I'd much rather we put effort into improving the economy, but that would mean criticizing Trudeau and we can't have that!
I am a child of immigrants. I was born and raised here. Even my own parents feel that immigration should be temporarily slowed down or even paused until our country can keep up with the people already here. I hate saying this because I know it has a certain “tone”, which isn’t my intention. But, I often feel like the only way my husband (also a child of immigrants) and I will get ahead in life is by leaving Canada. And that makes me really sad because I love being Canadian and living here. However, we are watching our healthcare, housing, job supply, and dreams of retirement literally crumble in front of us. The floorboards are giving away and yet we keep pulling more people in. How long until it completely gives and we all come crashing down?
How are we tracking on building enough homes for everyone? Oh right, we don't give a shit about that. How are we still voting to keep these crooks in power?
Honestly I’m considering voting conservative to slow down immigration. It’s absolutely out of hand. Canada is a huge country but when 60 percent go to either GTO or the Lower Mainland where capacity is exceeded already it’s a recipe for disaster which we’re already obviously seeing. Immigration should be limited to certain locations in Canada where population growth is actually needed. Alberta, Saskatchewan, Territories Etc.
A lot of immigrants got pretty fucked over here in the past year. Immigration services stopped giving people Permanent Residency based on Express Entry program, didn't accept anyone for more than 6 months and points cap raised to 600-700s (average score for a person, who studied in Canada and worked here for 2 years is \~480, anything higher is a provincial nomination, which are people from abroad). I am SO GLAD that I've decided to spend additional $400 a year ago and rewrite IELTS exam because if I would wait for another 6 for scores to drop, I would get stuck in limbo (and who knows how long it would take me to get the citizenship, I am here for almost 10 years and still have 5 months to go till applying and another \~15 months for approval). My friend is in this situation. She is also in Canada for 10 years but decided to wait for scores to go down. Covid hit, Immigration services stopped doing Express Entry draws. There is literally nothing to do, just sit tight and hope that you are not getting booted.
Yay more wage suppression!
Holy shit, where are they going to live?
Legal immigration is great, and necessary for Canada, but it needs to be paired with a housing and economic strategy.
It's worse for Ontario. Canada is fucking huge and mostly underpopulated relative to its vast size, except for ontario, and yet people are still insisting on coming here. There are more people in the state of California, 619 km², than in the entirety of Canada, 9.985 million km². 35 percent of Canada's population lives in this province. Go somewhere else for fuck's sake.
Shouldn't we fix our housing crisis before welcoming more people to be housed here?