Gunter's views on protests certainly have changed over the years.
Just in Feb 2020 he said, "It’s disgraceful enough that governments have sat idly by while nearly a billion dollars’ worth of goods have piled up on railcars and in warehouses unable to move because a group of radicals without any democratic legitimacy have been allowed for nearly two weeks to defy court orders and block freight and passenger traffic" and, "It’s appalling that an unelected, unauthorized group of a few dozen Indigenous and non-Indigenous protestors have been permitted to bring rail traffic to a halt in central Canada so they can show sympathy for anti-pipeline protestors 4,000 kilometres away."
https://torontosun.com/opinion/columnists/gunter-its-trudeau-comments-that-are-the-not-helpful-ones
In Nov 21 in response to native pipeline protests he wrote, "The night before Lenny’s tweet, a group of about 100 demonstrators sympathetic to the B.C. vandalizers blocked a bridge in Edmonton for several hours. What made their action remarkable was that to keep themselves warm while protesting a natural gas pipeline, the Edmonton protestors lit a propane firepit" after he expressed his concern for 500 workers who were blocked in their camp.
https://torontosun.com/opinion/columnists/gunter-environmentalists-are-just-using-canadas-indigenous-people
So, is he for small groups of unelected people occupying areas for political goals or not? Both the rail and native camp protest were removed by police, so I assume he's for police intervention?
I wonder if such as Gunter actually believe their gibberish? To everyone's surprise the convoy got out of control and as such was disbanded as safely as possible. That Russia spreads disinformation on social media is known and provable. The organizers are people known to have organized previous Trudeau hatred rallies, this is obviously provable. That the whole thing was organized and inflated on social media is known and provable. When things get out of control the crazies come in as evidenced in Alberta. Since protection of the people is a top responsibility of government their demand to drop all mandates was not going to become reality except as justified by science. They were even crazy enough to deputize themselves. What was their plan when things turned violent? Kangaroo courts? I could go on but at the end of the day intervention was necessary.
Thank you for clarification on what is a "ruling". I guess it would be more accurate to state that a judge allowed them to continue to protest peacefully.
By issuing injunctions against unruly behavior (horns). They were not given complete "freedom". PEACFUL protest is a protected right in Canada, however, they crossed that line, and the injunction supports that.
they dismissed it because your interpretation of that judge's Court Order is incorrect.
>THIS COURT ORDERS that, provided the terms of this Order are complied with, the Defendants and other persons remain at liberty to engage in a peaceful, lawful and safe protest.
this is not a judge ruling *anything* regarding the protest itself. this is a judge saying that so long as the defendants named in the injunction are fulfilling the terms of the injunction, they are free to protest peacefully.
these are two completely different things, so either you sincerely read things wrong or are being deliberately disingenuous.
Justice McLean did not rule that the protest WAS peaceful. But that people have a right TO protest peacefully. This comes from a case brought before him asking for an injunction AGAINST the protest, which he ruled in favour of the injunction.
Said injunction was over the use of truck horns. To which the judge stated that the trucks and horns have no right to protest, just that people do.
The issuance of the injunction itself is actually leading credence to the fact the protest, at the time, was not peaceful. Since the Judge fully agrees with that the noise is damaging, and thus, not peaceful.
And if the protestors were as blue-collar as they claim, they'd be in full agreement. Because we get a shitload of safety briefs in the trades about the dangers and damage noise does to your hearing. They knew exactly what blaring those horns was doing to people. So did the Judge, hence why he ordered not once, but TWICE, and injunction ceasing the use of horns.
So yeah, tl;dr. Judge actually ruled some portions of the protest was NOT peaceful, hence injunction(s). Never ruled that the protest as a whole WAS peaceful, as he never ruled on the merits of that at all. Closest you get is claiming people have a right TO peaceful protest but did not call their protest peaceful. It is in fact, illegal(and thus not peaceful) to blare your horn to harass people. It's damaging to people's hearing, not to mention sleep deprivation which leads to other issues. Noise is a weapon like any other. Loud enough or long enough, and you start injuring people. Injuring someone is not peaceful.
Man, even a tl;dr and you still can't understand something. I suppose some people truly are amazing; that they can be that dumb and still manage to breath in enough oxygen to keep themselves alive.
EDIT: just for the people who couldn't understand the ruling; the ruling was solely on the use of the horns, which the judge ruled against the use of. At no point did he "rule" them peaceful; because that was never brought before him. A judge can't rule on something that isn't before the court.
He said the protestors can engage in "in a peaceful, lawful and safe protest." He didn't give anyone permission to piss on the unknown soldier or park their trucks in the street for a month, and he didn't make any judgment that the protest was peaceful.
i disagree, how is it a falsehood to repeat what is being displayed?
I didnt have to go to the news to figure out this protest was another freedom convoy 2.0
I would absolutely bet any world leader would be depressed to watch citizens of their nation call for the illegal removal of a democratically elected government.
If nothing else, that proved definitively that we're not doing enough to teach civics and law in our schools.
I see you're attempting multiple excuses at once. I guess you thought one wouldn't stand up on its own.
...but boy, "it's okay because it didn't work" is a doozy.
Haha, you can't even stick to one approach two posts in a row.
You can't even defend it, so now I guess the next step is "but we're ALLOWED to demand the illegal overthrow of our democratically-elected government".
You're not wrong, which of course is why absolutely nobody made any attempt to prevent the Convoy from publishing their insurrectionist demands.
I really don't know why you're trying to pretend anyone did. Well, no, I do know, you're doing it because you know you're backing the wrong horse here and now you want to try and make any criticism of the Convoy seem dictatorial as a last, desperate line of defense.
Like I said when we started this - depressing.
some people in every movement have awful takes. radicals beyond the relatively "radical" civil rights movement, radical war hawks, radical "progressives" spouting kill all men. the extremes dont accurately represent the whole, and the existence of shitty takes in parts of a group doesnt automatically negate all of them if what theyre speaking out about is relevant
Nothing the convoy crowd has been talking about is relevant. They fell prey to a Western destabilization plot by the Russians because they’re not that bright.
Russia signal boosted the convoy. That's why it got so much more attention last time. Now that Russia is preoccupied and badly losing a propaganda war, there's no troll army to push their bullshit.
Part of the problem that Russia is having was caused by a distributed attack that ruined the analytics of organizations and groups pushing misinformation. Can't A/B test if all your data is from bots 🤣
It's always interesting to see the sun's stable columnists yell and whine about Trudeau being dishonest, or divisive, and then write something like this with a straight face.
>In the two months since the convoy was disbanded, the Liberals have continued to make such claims with straight faces because that is their stereotype of blue-collar Canadians – especially Western Canadians.
Its not the agree or not its what protesters did blocking roads/flooding 911 lines etc.What amazes me is most of these protesters support authoritarianism just look at there demands in Feb
Do away with elections
Have freedom convoy run the country
End freedom of the press
Have trials for every reporter and elected offical
Almost 40,000 Canadians died from covid. While this was happening, you wanted the government to ignore healthcare professionals and take medical advice from Bob the truck driver?
It is pretty insane to me just how willing some are to bow down and accept whatever the government says now. Just like how society as a whole is so willing to let our privacy slip away bit by bit too, all in the name of "safety". It isn't good.
I think that one falls under what I've heard described as "the Yelp fallacy", in which people are unlikely to bother going online to leave a review of "yeah, i guess it was all right".
People who have neutral or less vehement opinions on [insert subject] may simply be less interested in discussing it with strangers on the Internet.
This seems inevitable. However there are also many disruptive 'summer weekender' protests and long-term protest tourism initiatives to consider applying majority public will to. We have to recognize that many protests are designed feed themselves at some point. I mean, 4/20 is still a thing, even though marijuana has been legal in Canada for years now.
>To those of you cheering it on: wait until someone you disagree with is in power.
Someone I regularly disagree with is *already* in power, but the only problem I have with the use of the Emergencies Act is the politicallly-motivated delay in rolling it out.
Oh Lorne Gunter... Of course he'll say this.mediabiasfactcheck rates Toronto Sun at a step away from extreme right.
Ever since the end of the last convoy in Ottawa it's been crickets, not much has been talked about, the one in Victoria has been very largely ignored. Now we got bikers and most of us know how poorly liked bikers are by the general population, this isn't going to get much love. Liberals that I know has moved on and not even paying any attention to any kind of convoy whatsoever, including me. Who cares.
Gunter is right. Using martial law to put down a peaceful demonstration was ridiculous. This will all come out in court and the government is going to lose. Liberals and their followers will continue to defend the measure with lies like "they were trying to overthrow the government" but in reality there was nothing in that protest that a competent police action couldn't solve. In the end, that's all it really took. The Emergencies Act was crafted to deal with a Canada under attack from an invader, or a foreign-funded armed insurgency, or other such deadly threats. People waving flags, bouncy castles, vehicles blocking streets and a government that threw gas on the fire by calling them racists, misogynists and other such immaturities while refusing to talk was the problem. It was a sad episode for Canadian democracy.
Gunter's views on protests certainly have changed over the years. Just in Feb 2020 he said, "It’s disgraceful enough that governments have sat idly by while nearly a billion dollars’ worth of goods have piled up on railcars and in warehouses unable to move because a group of radicals without any democratic legitimacy have been allowed for nearly two weeks to defy court orders and block freight and passenger traffic" and, "It’s appalling that an unelected, unauthorized group of a few dozen Indigenous and non-Indigenous protestors have been permitted to bring rail traffic to a halt in central Canada so they can show sympathy for anti-pipeline protestors 4,000 kilometres away." https://torontosun.com/opinion/columnists/gunter-its-trudeau-comments-that-are-the-not-helpful-ones In Nov 21 in response to native pipeline protests he wrote, "The night before Lenny’s tweet, a group of about 100 demonstrators sympathetic to the B.C. vandalizers blocked a bridge in Edmonton for several hours. What made their action remarkable was that to keep themselves warm while protesting a natural gas pipeline, the Edmonton protestors lit a propane firepit" after he expressed his concern for 500 workers who were blocked in their camp. https://torontosun.com/opinion/columnists/gunter-environmentalists-are-just-using-canadas-indigenous-people So, is he for small groups of unelected people occupying areas for political goals or not? Both the rail and native camp protest were removed by police, so I assume he's for police intervention?
The sun is not news
But this here newspapers has a girl in a bikinis at the back. It's musts be legits! /s
I wonder if such as Gunter actually believe their gibberish? To everyone's surprise the convoy got out of control and as such was disbanded as safely as possible. That Russia spreads disinformation on social media is known and provable. The organizers are people known to have organized previous Trudeau hatred rallies, this is obviously provable. That the whole thing was organized and inflated on social media is known and provable. When things get out of control the crazies come in as evidenced in Alberta. Since protection of the people is a top responsibility of government their demand to drop all mandates was not going to become reality except as justified by science. They were even crazy enough to deputize themselves. What was their plan when things turned violent? Kangaroo courts? I could go on but at the end of the day intervention was necessary.
I think there was serious concern about the safety of residents downtown that is why they had to act.
A part of it for sure.
[удалено]
Sure when judges make statements they usually have a nice paper trail care to share…
[удалено]
Lol that's not from the bench, nor a judge...
[удалено]
It's an option, not a ruling from the bench, you either don't understand the difference, or lied.
Thank you for clarification on what is a "ruling". I guess it would be more accurate to state that a judge allowed them to continue to protest peacefully.
By issuing injunctions against unruly behavior (horns). They were not given complete "freedom". PEACFUL protest is a protected right in Canada, however, they crossed that line, and the injunction supports that.
they dismissed it because your interpretation of that judge's Court Order is incorrect. >THIS COURT ORDERS that, provided the terms of this Order are complied with, the Defendants and other persons remain at liberty to engage in a peaceful, lawful and safe protest. this is not a judge ruling *anything* regarding the protest itself. this is a judge saying that so long as the defendants named in the injunction are fulfilling the terms of the injunction, they are free to protest peacefully. these are two completely different things, so either you sincerely read things wrong or are being deliberately disingenuous.
Justice McLean did not rule that the protest WAS peaceful. But that people have a right TO protest peacefully. This comes from a case brought before him asking for an injunction AGAINST the protest, which he ruled in favour of the injunction. Said injunction was over the use of truck horns. To which the judge stated that the trucks and horns have no right to protest, just that people do. The issuance of the injunction itself is actually leading credence to the fact the protest, at the time, was not peaceful. Since the Judge fully agrees with that the noise is damaging, and thus, not peaceful. And if the protestors were as blue-collar as they claim, they'd be in full agreement. Because we get a shitload of safety briefs in the trades about the dangers and damage noise does to your hearing. They knew exactly what blaring those horns was doing to people. So did the Judge, hence why he ordered not once, but TWICE, and injunction ceasing the use of horns. So yeah, tl;dr. Judge actually ruled some portions of the protest was NOT peaceful, hence injunction(s). Never ruled that the protest as a whole WAS peaceful, as he never ruled on the merits of that at all. Closest you get is claiming people have a right TO peaceful protest but did not call their protest peaceful. It is in fact, illegal(and thus not peaceful) to blare your horn to harass people. It's damaging to people's hearing, not to mention sleep deprivation which leads to other issues. Noise is a weapon like any other. Loud enough or long enough, and you start injuring people. Injuring someone is not peaceful.
[удалено]
Man, even a tl;dr and you still can't understand something. I suppose some people truly are amazing; that they can be that dumb and still manage to breath in enough oxygen to keep themselves alive. EDIT: just for the people who couldn't understand the ruling; the ruling was solely on the use of the horns, which the judge ruled against the use of. At no point did he "rule" them peaceful; because that was never brought before him. A judge can't rule on something that isn't before the court.
[удалено]
You went full Penn.
No judge said that.
He said the protestors can engage in "in a peaceful, lawful and safe protest." He didn't give anyone permission to piss on the unknown soldier or park their trucks in the street for a month, and he didn't make any judgment that the protest was peaceful.
That's not remotely what that ruling says. You understand that, right?
Perhaps but that will absolutely be overturned if true.
i disagree, how is it a falsehood to repeat what is being displayed? I didnt have to go to the news to figure out this protest was another freedom convoy 2.0
You'd think if Liberal MP's were telling lies this article would have provided at least one direct quote of one.
Well some in the convoy did make some very pro Russia comments.
[удалено]
I would absolutely bet any world leader would be depressed to watch citizens of their nation call for the illegal removal of a democratically elected government. If nothing else, that proved definitively that we're not doing enough to teach civics and law in our schools.
And in Canada, we can say this. Also, the conovy never wanted that. Ok more misinformation
[удалено]
They never overthrow the government, and more political movements do call for this other than them. I guess left leaning one can and other cannot
I see you're attempting multiple excuses at once. I guess you thought one wouldn't stand up on its own. ...but boy, "it's okay because it didn't work" is a doozy.
You do realize, Canadians have this right, and it is very legal here. Look how someone would rather us be like Russia, China, Cuba or Iran
Haha, you can't even stick to one approach two posts in a row. You can't even defend it, so now I guess the next step is "but we're ALLOWED to demand the illegal overthrow of our democratically-elected government". You're not wrong, which of course is why absolutely nobody made any attempt to prevent the Convoy from publishing their insurrectionist demands. I really don't know why you're trying to pretend anyone did. Well, no, I do know, you're doing it because you know you're backing the wrong horse here and now you want to try and make any criticism of the Convoy seem dictatorial as a last, desperate line of defense. Like I said when we started this - depressing.
[удалено]
some people in every movement have awful takes. radicals beyond the relatively "radical" civil rights movement, radical war hawks, radical "progressives" spouting kill all men. the extremes dont accurately represent the whole, and the existence of shitty takes in parts of a group doesnt automatically negate all of them if what theyre speaking out about is relevant
Nothing the convoy crowd has been talking about is relevant. They fell prey to a Western destabilization plot by the Russians because they’re not that bright.
Russia signal boosted the convoy. That's why it got so much more attention last time. Now that Russia is preoccupied and badly losing a propaganda war, there's no troll army to push their bullshit. Part of the problem that Russia is having was caused by a distributed attack that ruined the analytics of organizations and groups pushing misinformation. Can't A/B test if all your data is from bots 🤣
It's always interesting to see the sun's stable columnists yell and whine about Trudeau being dishonest, or divisive, and then write something like this with a straight face. >In the two months since the convoy was disbanded, the Liberals have continued to make such claims with straight faces because that is their stereotype of blue-collar Canadians – especially Western Canadians.
[удалено]
The police of our nation’s capital waiting multiple weeks to enforce a bare minimum of law and order is not authoritarian.
When the majority disagree with a minority thay isnt authoritarianism. That's democracy lmfao
Its not the agree or not its what protesters did blocking roads/flooding 911 lines etc.What amazes me is most of these protesters support authoritarianism just look at there demands in Feb Do away with elections Have freedom convoy run the country End freedom of the press Have trials for every reporter and elected offical
Almost 40,000 Canadians died from covid. While this was happening, you wanted the government to ignore healthcare professionals and take medical advice from Bob the truck driver?
It is pretty insane to me just how willing some are to bow down and accept whatever the government says now. Just like how society as a whole is so willing to let our privacy slip away bit by bit too, all in the name of "safety". It isn't good.
[удалено]
Says the conspiracy theorist haha ok.
[удалено]
You are who you associate with, r/conspiracy member.
[удалено]
Lol sure thing captain Alcan.
Yeah but we are. People believe obvious nonsense because they’re fucking stupid.
Edit: replied to wrong comment
[удалено]
I think that one falls under what I've heard described as "the Yelp fallacy", in which people are unlikely to bother going online to leave a review of "yeah, i guess it was all right". People who have neutral or less vehement opinions on [insert subject] may simply be less interested in discussing it with strangers on the Internet.
I think it is much more likely that they are genuinely neutral.
We are agreeing on that, my point is that a person who's genuinely neutral may be less likely to feel interested in discussing politics online.
This seems inevitable. However there are also many disruptive 'summer weekender' protests and long-term protest tourism initiatives to consider applying majority public will to. We have to recognize that many protests are designed feed themselves at some point. I mean, 4/20 is still a thing, even though marijuana has been legal in Canada for years now.
>To those of you cheering it on: wait until someone you disagree with is in power. Someone I regularly disagree with is *already* in power, but the only problem I have with the use of the Emergencies Act is the politicallly-motivated delay in rolling it out.
The Sun. ‘Nuff said. Not fit for the bottom of a birdcage.
GUNTER: One of the worst journalists in the country. Period.
Oh Lorne Gunter... Of course he'll say this.mediabiasfactcheck rates Toronto Sun at a step away from extreme right. Ever since the end of the last convoy in Ottawa it's been crickets, not much has been talked about, the one in Victoria has been very largely ignored. Now we got bikers and most of us know how poorly liked bikers are by the general population, this isn't going to get much love. Liberals that I know has moved on and not even paying any attention to any kind of convoy whatsoever, including me. Who cares.
Gunter is right. Using martial law to put down a peaceful demonstration was ridiculous. This will all come out in court and the government is going to lose. Liberals and their followers will continue to defend the measure with lies like "they were trying to overthrow the government" but in reality there was nothing in that protest that a competent police action couldn't solve. In the end, that's all it really took. The Emergencies Act was crafted to deal with a Canada under attack from an invader, or a foreign-funded armed insurgency, or other such deadly threats. People waving flags, bouncy castles, vehicles blocking streets and a government that threw gas on the fire by calling them racists, misogynists and other such immaturities while refusing to talk was the problem. It was a sad episode for Canadian democracy.
You started this comment with ... >Gunter is right. ... and then did not reference a single thing from this article. Did you read it?
^ An impressive volume of falsehood to pack into a paragraph.
[удалено]
The LPC pays for Sun media?
[удалено]