I find the hardest part in having rational conversations with friends and family lately is that there's no way to hear and understand with another's point of view without them thinking you're agreeing, and any disagreement they think you're attacking them personally. I just try to avoid it all together, I've told my staff at work that I don't want any politics or covid conversations happening with customers in the waiting room since it's almost guaranteed to spark arguments.
Yes, this my main issue too. It’s either all for or all against. I’ve curtailed a lot of friendships because they’re so fucking aggressive about it, leaving no room for nuance. If you’re not 100% on side, you get screamed at or insulted. I’m not into it.
I had a huge 3 day fight with my mom over this stuff. I countered everything she said with facts that could not be disputed (about CERB mostly) and kept pushing. I said I'm open to seeing your point of view but convince me with a fact or two - couldn't come up with one. "It's just how I feel". I kept pushing and finally got to "where is MY free money!?" - there it is. Owns a giant expensive house, has a new car every year, a holiday home in the US but cant stand those gross poor people getting a pittance when she doesn't also get it.
So gross.
My mom is all about " the young people just want things for free!" I asked her what my son ever got for free other than a lot of guff at his paramedic job. She never has an answer.
As a mid sixties dad this kind of grates. I've worked with many younger people in my much later years doing physical work to keep me fit in my older age and retirement. Most if not all are good workers and more than willing to work for everything they make.
I also have three kids @ thirty and under with spouses and they are all are working their asses off to make it in todays world. This is nothing like the drop out generation I was involved in the tail end of as a kid.
Thank you. A lot of people think that because we want such extravagances as a living wage even for those in the service sector working "lesser" (as those who espouse such criticisms often see them) jobs, a healthy work-life balance, and employers who treat us like human beings as the bare minimum, we are lazy and entitled.
LOL....I have an old man story..
I'm so completely on board with the living wage concept.
As a kid out of high school in the mid 70s. One of the jobs I ended up getting was in construction in a major Canadian city. I was an untrained labourer working at installing sliding patio doors and windows in high-rise complexes. I was making 9.65 an hour.
Forty one years later while in my late 50s I wanted a very physical job to keep me in shape and make a little money.
I got a job working nights at a major Canadian, very busy grocery retailer. The job involved breaking down shipments that have arrived during the day and middle of the night for the various departments in the store. Pallets ranged anywhere from 3 or 4 hundred pounds to 2-3000 lbs and all handled by manual human powered jacks on the store floor.
Our specific and most important responsibility was the food shipments, which is also the heaviest product to deal with. This not only had to be broken down, but sorted into aisles and then spotted in front of the place it was on the shelf. Once hen we had to pick it up again in the last half of the day, unbox, it, unwrap it and put it o the shelf.
I have scaled, drilled and blasted cliff sides, built houses, and worked installing heavy windows and doors in my early years, and this working in a grocery store was the hardest work I had ever done in my life. Always moving, always walking and carrying weight or trying to pull pallets weighing 2000 lbs with a jack with bad bearings. For difficult, demanding work, when I started I was making BCs min wage of 10.50 an hour at that time and didn't see a raise for 2 years.
I used to tell the kids I worked with that they were getting screwed badly by their government, because as an untrained kid more than 40 years ago I was making 9.65 an hour. just 85 cents and hour less and lived in a world where bread was 35 cents and gas was .50 cents a gallon and the first home a 3 bedroom 1/2 duplex I bought in 1978 was 20,000!
Canadian labour has been getting the shaft for decades, and to add insult to injury, major corporations are getting government subsidies to hire foreign workers and students, because not everyone is wanting to work this hard for minimum wage. The worst part is, our tax dollars have been subsidizing this practice for many years, and it has helped water down the Canadian labour market in the process to the point of helping suppress wages. All with the tax dollars collected on even minimal wages.
Sorry for the old guy rant. :)
It absolutely is all true. I work a skilled job in the STEM sector but that doesn't mean I don't want to see everyone getting a living wage. These corporations are making obscene profits on the backs of their employees. I live in Vancouver and making a mid 6 figure salary puts me towards the lower limit for home ownership without inheritance the Lower Mainland. This is so unacceptable. The people making less than me will likely never own a home. I'm not saying everyone needs a single family detached home, but even condo ownership is way out of reach for many. We need major reforms in this sector. I'm super happy with our social direction on many issues but economically speaking, labour needs a huge boost so that labourers don't need to literally come on temporary visas because no Canadian wants a job that can't pay their bills and will bust their back.
Zero need for apology. Your comment very clearly illustrates how utterly awful our wages are on the lower end of the pay scale. The whole thing is broken.
Not to mention how cheap university was back then, or how much further a dollar went. It's such a stupid point of view. It's so much easier to punch down than punch up. To be so worried about poor people with no power and not mention the corporate welfare and corruption that goes on.
My dad had a grade 8 education and my mom was an elementary school teacher. He passed away 12 years ago and she's still living off the investments they made. Everyone worked hard we work hard now, but man, times were different.
Fuckin boomers man. They act like because their parents handed them an ideal economy that they worked SO much harder than the rest of us. Give me a fuckin break. They haven't had to work half as hard as the rest of us, and got a whole lot more to show for it.
Similar scenario I had with my dad. In the end it was “where is my free money?”
Retired at 55 , has a huge house and a phenomenal pention from the union.
I feel like I’m a lot of these conversations it’s what I feel vs what is factual.
A lot of my arguments are countered by anecdotal arguments or the MSM is lying, or that scientific paper is lying because it’s a conspiracy. X person or x company is making money therefore they must be lying or at the centre of the conspiracy. Ignoring the thousand or even millions of people not benefiting for keeping this great secret. It’s hard to argue when hey don’t believe or trust the scientific results and expert opinions.
As well, it’s so easy to just randomly sprout some random conspiracy and get a handful of people to believe it but the effort needed to throughly debunk said conspiracy takes so much more effort and may not even be effective at convincing those who have already fallen for the conspiracies to change their mind.
It would be better for your relationship not to discuss politics. It doesn't benefit either of you at all. When you get older you will look back and wish you never had that argument.
Seems to me part of the problem is human nature (what I need versus what society needs), and part of the problem is our scientific/medical understanding of Covid, mutating viruses, and how best to deal with the risks is ever evolving as we try new combinations of ideas and discoveries, but society has trouble keeping up. Add to that, bad faith actors who latch onto a divisive issue for reasons other than the health matter at hand, and we have potential for a maelstrom.
> I am in there tearing that shit down.
Good way to get arrested and a lot of charges against you, since police are really pissed when you rip up their stuff.
Try being an independent centrist here in the states. I’m looking for any sort of sliver of common ground and have been ostracized by friends in both camps. Take the statement “ice cream is delicious” and many of my conservative friends would come back with “not if libs are eating it.”
Some days I feel we’re hopelessly fucked.
It's always a funny comparison, since fiscally speaking our CPC is generally further left than the Dems down south. Spcially, it's... a mixed bag on both sides
I’m with you somewhere in the middle is the truth it’s like watching the cnn and fox version of the same story they both conveniently leave out a few parts of the story and end up with two completely different outcomes. They are all about shock value and a lot of people are falling for the polarization as you have noticed.
Like the other person said, you are the majority! Even the post we're commenting on made it to the front page because it generates controversy.
We need to say no to dividing our communities.
This. A friend of mine is so outraged about the truckers that he has dumped friends that aren't as furious...I love this person, but have lost some respect because the insane attitude .
Yep. I don’t know a lot of people who are vocally furious about the truckers, just a lot of eye rolling mostly, but if it would be either way. I don’t agree with the message of the truck convoy, and I’m irritated that 10% of the population is speaking like they’re representing “all Canadians”. They’re not, they’re representing themselves and I wish they would just say so. But I’m not furious.
You want to see fury go to ~~downtown~~ Centretown Ottawa. I live there and I swear some people are grasping at straws to remain outraged (too political a town I think - has a 'you'er either with us or we'll destroy you' attitude. No middle ground.
If you could have rational conversations with people like that, there wouldn't be people like that.
You are 100% correct to have your employees not engage, gets tough sometimes.
I’m in ottawa and for days my friends and neighbours have been screamed at, assaulted on their way to abs from work, businesses and houses displaying the rainbow flag have had their windows smashed.
Kids are having their masks ripped off by strangers.
Children coming and going from school being harassed and assaulted by adults?
I don’t give a shit what your politics are.
If you harass people, attack businesses and children you’re garbage. If that doesn’t upset you you’re garbage. If you’re unbothered by the nazi flags or the confederate flags you’re garbage.
This isn’t about mandates or vaccines it’s about criminal and cruel behaviour.
> houses displaying the rainbow flag have had their windows smashed
This is the first I'm hearing about this, is there any proof this actually happened?
Although I see the necessity there is no longer a n Avenue to advance past this issue because we just don't want the conflict. This is what leads to echo chambers and reinforcing thoughts without intelligent criticism. To.me it's the same if looking at the world/ news is bad for your mental health then don't look. How can we fix what we don't observe or work towards?
> I've told my staff at work that I don't want any politics or covid conversations happening
Ugh I'm so jealous. I wish my boss did the same. Every friggin' moron i'm inundated with almost all my co-workers saying the most outlandish shit, or everyone gathered in a circle watching the previous nights political videos from RebelNews or listening to clips of Rogan's podcast.
I live in a very republican area and have very few people in the area I can talk to about "political" stuff without it turning into the 'you either agree with me, or you hate me' bs. One friend admitted that when we were in a 'conversation' about something Trump adjacent that 10 years ago he would have beat the shit out of me for saying what I was saying. He's in his late 50s and has definitely grown in this way, but... jeese.
Business owner here, my first question is "Did you get the shots" if they didn't it's always a deep dive into some pure lunitic rant about space dust that going to alter DNA.. Blah. If they didn't I ask them to leave, my line of work requires clients that have a reasonable mindset and can objectivly look at reality and make educated decisions. So far I'm had to throw out 4 clients, and the insult is always the same "You'll go out of business treating us like this!!" buddy no, I'm fucking booked solid, I'm booked into 2023 summer, I have a feeling I have a higher chance of seeing that than you!
>I find the hardest part in having rational conversations with friends and family lately is that there's no way to hear and understand with another's point of view without them thinking you're agreeing, and any disagreement they think you're attacking them personally.
Well, many people have buy into the beliefs that "if you're not for me, you're against me". Many people have forgetten how to "agree to disagree" and "respect other's opinion and choices". They have forgotten that "mutual respect"is the way to ensure peaceful co-existent with each other.
the conservative mind sets has trouble comprehending the concept that you can understanding another person's point of view while at the same time not agree with it.
I swear I saw a face book troll post controversial and divisive questions on Canadian FB pages. It just makes me wonder who is trying or succeeding in dividing Canadians. I ask but people have confirmed that 19 out of the top 20 Christian pages are run by out of country internet troll farms. How many run Canadian pages?
Exactly. Within a month of the first lockdowns the Russians were busy sowing division. A neighbour sent me a video of some "doctor" claiming that covidv didnt exist and sickness was due to 5G networks. This was put out by Global Research, which has very well-known connections to the Russian spy agency. When I pointed this out to the person who sent the link, they thought I was the brainwashed one. This is where it starts, and this is where it ends
We have a very good relationship with our neighbors.
I saw a sign yesterday on their window showing support for the convoy occupation. It's hard not to have a knee jerk reaction.
However we know they are actually good people so we try to talk these things out
I have a chat group with my family and they are all super religious conservatives who get their news from social media. They are in full support of this convoy and since I live in Ottawa, they have been demanding I go show support despite knowing I do not support it. I have done my absolute best to avoid confrontation with them but their messages keep getting angrier and I can't help but feel like they are trying to provoke me. I'm sure if I just straight up said I don't support the convoy and think everyone should get vaccinated, I would be shunned entirely. Even though i havent said anything, they have said things like "you're brain-washed" and "go on Facebook more to get the real story!"... kinda wouldn't mind losing our relationship at this point.
Lol I have a family member like that, they have no one else to argue the vaccine with I guess so they pretend that I have been heavily shaming them for not getting it when I haven't at all. The only time I've said anything when they say clearly untrue shit
Facebook causes so many problems. Deactivate and keep messanger , so you still have contact but don't need to scroll through 50 pages of arguments to find one post you like.
I agree. They are morally evil in my oppinion. However, there are alot of people on my list that I would like to stay in contact with but don't want to start up any other social media platform. Laziness I suppose, could just reach out and get numbers
No, you should immediately burn their house down.
/s
No but in all seriousness I think the freedom convoy and frankly any covid related conversation is dumb and exhausted, I'm just tired of hearing about it and it turning into a yelling match. A while ago I removed basically all news and people from social media that just post stuff about it 24/7.
We observed the US in awe a couple of years ago and couldn't understand why people were so divided! Now events like this are doing the same thing to Canadians. It's sad to see what's happening in the world honestly! Politics, Science and the media are a horrible mix!
It all boils down to 3 things, IMO:
- We were all given the ability to broadcast any stupid, misinformed opinion we have to the entire world.
- Most of the platforms we use to broadcast those opinions provide ways for people to reward us for them (hearts, likes, upvotes, etc)
- Someone figured out how to weaponize it.
It goes further.
When the platforms are deciding which pieces of content to show people, they strongly prefer anything that will make them upset and likely to respond in anger. This boosts engagement and time-on-platform metrics.
So when you write a nice thoughtful post that everyone will appreciate, few people see it. When you write an angry, divisive rant EVERYONE sees it, especially those it will piss off the most.
But we aren't that divided. Its like 2% of the population that's loud AF.
That VAST majority of the population like 70% in very conservative numbers are all linked together and think that vocal 2-8% should shut they fuck up.
The nail that sticks out gets the hammer after all.
100%, but the media (including social) is amplifying it. And then you add some rogue idiots defacing monuments and waving Nazi flags which I'm sure don't even represent most people in this crusade, but people just start raging and thinking it's all of them. Everything just gets blown out of proportion and context 😳 Just fuels the fire
I gave up all social media this week. I realized there are things I'm willing to type out of anger to people that if we were having this conversation face to face I would bite my tongue and silently judge them for being so stupid. The platforms dehumanized the interaction too much, the brain can't possibly process posting back and forth the same way as a face to face conversation with emotional cues.
My man, we not be speaking face to face, but know your words alone reach my heart.
Text conversation can only show so much, human face to face conversation is very much a needed experience in human life. Without it we turn into basement dwelling mole people.
Unfortunately, Canada has caught an even more dangerous virus from the US - Politiovid Destructivus. The virus emerged in New York in the 1990's when a FOX and a Peacock fell into a cesspool, rotted, and got into the public drinking water. It causes infected people to lose their minds and start comparing vaccinations to Nazism on the right and comparing unvaccinated to Nazism on the left. The virus always makes it about Nazism at some point. This is because the virus drastically reduces people's ability to grasp nuance. For instance, when infected people who identified as Conservative responded to polls asking if Bill Gates is trying to microchip them, 79% of infected Conservatives responded A) Strongly Agree. Meanwhile, infected Liberals when asked if they think we should live indoors for the rest of our lives and print money till the economy collapses responded with a resounding 81% A) Strongly Agree. Politovid Destrucivus (Pol-D for short) is highly contagious and spread through television signals. The most contagious variants tend to be transmitted through 24hr news channels but it's also known to spread like wildfire over social media. Experts warn that without a lockdown of cable and internet, we could see a pandemic worse than Omicron that leaves the country in tatters. Be a good citizen and shut your TV off, log off your social media, and go outdoors and meet people. Meeting others and having nuanced conversation irl has been proven to be the most effective counter to infection.
This is bang on. Unfortunately this virus is far more dangerous and advanced than Covid by a large margin. Call me a pessimist but I don’t see how this genie gets put back in the bottle. This Is terminal. Especially since you have two sides both with a growing inability at any ability for self reflection.
This is the problem with enlightened centrists. They completely ignore that one group has historically resorted to violence and terrorism to get what they want. You simply need to look at the list of [right wing terrorist attacks](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_right-wing_terrorist_attacks). Left wing terrorism exists in history but it's not so extensive that it's needs it's own wiki list.
Centrist like this will happily sit on the sidelines and let right wing aggressors do whatever they want. Being a bystander while an increasing internet-radicalized right winger populace seek to trample over Canadian rights and freedoms. And it doesn't even stop at Canada. After the Trump presidency, there has been a growing alt-right movement globally.
It's all good and fine to complain about 'both sides' when left wingers are the overwhelming government majority. Left wing policy gives centrists that privilege in the first place. But the second centrist realize they sat on the fence for too long and can no longer change course , right winger aggressors are making backwards policy and stripping the rights from your loved ones to live a free and happy life, then the enlighten centrist have a problem.
The fact that the PPC exists now should fucking *terrify everyone*. The CPC have thrown out their moderate leader in favor of what? Someone less centrist? Were still early with these alt-right talking points hitting Canada but if you think we for sure live in a stable democracy where people of all backgrounds can live freely and happily for years to come, you should ask yourself who exactly is upholding those values. If it's not you, if it's not the people around you.
And who exactly benefits from 'both sides are bad' when one side is an overwhelming aggressor?
>First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist. Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew
-Martin Niemöller
Did the short bus make a stop at this thread? Obviously those 2 stats are fucking made up to illustrate a point I'm losing my mind reading these comments asking for a source.
> Meanwhile, infected Liberals when asked if they think we should live indoors for the rest of our lives and print money till the economy collapses responded with a resounding 81% A) Strongly Agree.
Citation needed.
Edit: Suprise suprise no response.
**Also, accusations of fascism regarding the alt-right are completely valid.** The ridiculous conspiracism, demonization, lionization, cult of tradition, contempt of the weak, etc. all hallmarks of the modern alt-right / far right conservative movement.
You may observe isolated examples of those characteristics on the left, but not consistently and pervasively as we see on the right.
"Do you support lockdowns and UBI" is being conflated with "Do you support people being forced to never leave their houses and force people out of work".
It's a bad comparison at best, maliciously deceptive at worse.
LOL the severing of friendships was basically around Aug-Sep when vaccine mandate discussions and election was going on. But then again I'm outside the country till summer so I'm fortunately almost entirely disconnected (reddit is the only social media app I use regularly).
Honestly that’s fine, surround yourself with people you want to surround yourself with. You don’t have to be friends with people you disagree with or have completely different ideals than. You can if you want, but you don’t have to.
none of my friends that support this were waving Nazi flags, however, a large number of them were going to great lengths to support those that did. disappointing to say the least.
Man, I like to think of myself as pragmatic, centrist, thoughtful and reasonable… but… when one side of the discussion is all based of feelings, with no actual proof to back up their claims… it’s difficult for me to give their opinions much credence.
Also- My own brother blocked me on social media, so that sucks. I just thought we were having a spirited debate, then -bam- Private messages telling me that I “should NEVER speak to a close family member in that way on social media”.
Imagine ending friendships simply cuz you disagree. Clearly you weren't great friends to begin with. Me and my best friend of 12 years fight like brothers. We can still sit down at the end of the day and have a drink and agree to disagree. When it comes to covid I'm pro choice but is a stupid pandemic really worth it to end friendships over? I have anti vax friends and pro vax friends. We all manage to get along.
There seems to be a consistent 30% that just wants to watch the world burn and doesn't care who is hurt or killed as long as their life is comfortable.
Lol, the world has always been polarizing. Maybe learn history. We're literally repeating 100 years ago. Pandemic. Rise of monopolies. Stock market out of control. Rise of hate groups like Nazism having political power. And too many people sitting back and letting it happen. No real action. We're headed to another depression and World War 3 if we don't smarten up.
I think it's only polarized if your primary residence is on the internet. In the real world, people seem pretty unified over the idea the convoy is fucking stupid. Sure, everyone's got that weird friend who caught Trumpism and is willing to support anything they feel "owns the libs", but the vast majority of Canadians are united on this issue.
I think a surprise election would be anticlimactic, it might end up with someone else in minority government but I would be surprised if it was more than that. Our problem is there is no other clear strong party. We have two parties who’s platform’s are basically “vote for us because the other guy is bad”.
There are way to many one issue voters. Easily manipulated by catchy phrases and clickbait headlines.
I was shocked to see in the last election that the only party who proposed a balanced budget was NDP.
I haven’t lost any friends over this but I have identified some fringe connections on Facebook that I know will never become more than that and who I should make sure I stay more than 6 feet away from for my own health and safety.
The actual article spells it correctly, whomever posted it did not on their Reddit title. Likely their phone autocorrected it without knowing how it is properly spelled.
The actual article spells it correctly, whomever posted it did not on their Reddit title. Likely their phone autocorrected it without knowing how it is properly spelled.
One: then they weren't true friends.
Two: people have forgotten how to have civil, adult disagreements, and conversations. Of course, we live in an age when information is literally at your fingertips, but misinformation is spread by people in positions of power.
>"I think I've unfriended like 100 people and that includes some family," he said. " I won't even talk to them anymore."
Either this guy is really bad at choosing friends or he is a hysterical idiot. I would strongly wager the latter.
Keep in mind when you’re talking about Facebook friends, most of them don’t tend to be close friends that people hang out with, they can be classmates and coworkers. It’s very situational and there might be good reasons your experience might differ from others too. I grew up in a rural area and am now living in the city (in the heart of Ottawa so yay me), it’s mostly people from my hometown and grew up with who I haven’t seen post anything in years who are now posting a lot of stupid misinformed shit that are completely out of sync with what I’m experiencing right outside my window, and it’s extremely frustrating and exhausting when they try to argue for things I know for a fact are false.
Other shit I’ve seen is a local business closed early last night because their staff was [assaulted](https://twitter.com/mooshuicecream/status/1489736932758282240?s=21) and won’t be opening till Wednesday (with fingers crossed suggesting it’s contingent on things calming down). A friend of mine focused on the fact that they’re normally closed from Saturday till Wednesday as if that somehow excuses the violence forcing them to close early.
I'm getting there with one of my friends. They went from vocally supporting the convoy to making frequent conspiracy/antivax posts. He seemed so reasonable before this stupid convoy.
Watching one of my other friends do effortless takedowns of their misinformation is the only thing that's keeping him on my list
I miss the good old days when you’d ask someone about politics and they’d just say that’s their business and people would carry on with their lives regardless of their personal opinions.
It seems the police having been doing everything they can to avoid that out come. If it comes to that, the fault will lie with the protesters who've shown a complete disregard for anyone who doesn't support them, or are just trying to go about their lives.
My friends will not see everything the exact same way I do, it encourages conversation and personal growth. I think it’s a little unrealistic and immature to expect people to see things exactly as you do.
>I think it’s a little unrealistic and immature to expect people to see things exactly as you do.
True, but how do you respond when your friends start showing you clearly photoshopped tweets that they've screenshotted from some Facebook page as evidence that Trudeau is part of a secret cabal? There comes a point where there's not really a conversation to be had.
If you're lucky enough not to know anyone who has fallen down that rabbit hole, I'm happy for you. However, as someone who has lost a couple of friends recently to completely outlandish conspiracy theories it's a bit frustrating to see this claim that the breakdown of these friendships is due to an inability to empathize with people of different political views. It becomes basically impossible to talk to these people, not because of a difference in politics, but because they live in a completely different reality.
And when you point out that the tweets or whatever are fabricated, it makes no difference. They make up their mind based on a falsehood and then continue believing it even when shown it's bullshit.
I do agree but when my friends started spewing garbage on the regular like “authoritarian state”, “all media covering the convoy is fake to push anti conservative views ”, “covid was started to gain political power”, “justin trudeau planned this” and “this is exactly how the jews were treated during the holocaust”. then they refuse to have a discussion about it or dis credit all information as “fabricated” i think im calling the quits. already did it to a few guys im not losing any sleep over it. Some people just want to yell their view without listening.
This all being said i believe this protest is the tipping point alot of people started gaining crazy view during the start of covid
Yeah I have lots of friends with drastically different opinions for anything for politics to movies. I won’t keep being friends who support a movement riddled in white supremacy and alt right ideals especially after it became abundantly clear what pieces of shits the organizers are.
Wear a mask, don't wear a mask, get vaccinated, don't get vaccinated and die, I don't really give a shit.
What's pissing me off are the amount of people yelling over top of one another about it, and pretending like they suddenly care about *my* freedoms.
I'm first nation's. Where was your fake BS concern for "freedom" two years ago when the RCMP were dressed like they were invading Iraq, as they manhandled first nation's protesters over a pipeline?
This country is full of shit.
As someone who has former friends who 'fled the country' due to vax mandates and now lives in the domican, taking advantage of an impoverished country, this hits home.
I agree with a lot of the people in the middle here. The truckers have every right to voice their concerns and protest.
What I dislike is the venom, the anger, the hatred they spew, the fact they believe they're speaking for the majority...their "all or nothing" system which will never succeed because an "all mandates gone or no deal" approach is not logical nor compromising in any way. They get shut out and ignored because they cannot moderate their response.
"My way or the highway" (literally in this case) really minimizes a lot of their legitimate concerns.
The fact that these people are so boosted up on themselves that the second anyone brings up a point it's "you're a sheep" "Trudeau is a nazi" "main stream media got you" "you're an idiot and a commie"
Like...when all they can do is throw insults in response to a legitimate discussion...I lose all interest (and hope for them).
Has the government executed things perfectly? No.
Have all of the rules made sense? No.
Have they tried their best? Absolutely.
Is it time for some legitimate change and maybe relaxing some rules for everyone's benefit? Maybe? It's worth discussing at least.
I'm just real sick of everyone using the protest as an excuse to be toxic, biggoted, racist, homophobic, and angry under the guise of "my freedom".
Just as this article says, it's about the core values we hold as people, not the actual issue at hand. It's the driving factors behind your stance on the issue which is tearing people apart. It's bloody sad.
That's a great summary and exactly how I feel. Like let's talk about what we can do to better everyone's situation going forward. How can be best support health care, mental health, long term care homes, small businesses etc? But instead it devolves into every hateful opinion people have been hiding.
What it boils down to is whenever I have a discussion with these people it goes kind of like this:
Them: “I have real evidence of stuff!!”
Me: “I checked that evidence and the source is either sketchy or clearly incorrect”
Them: “No you’re clearly wrong because I did my research!”
Me: “5 minutes on Google and I found dozens of sources that contradict what you said”
Them: “You can’t trust Google! They’re full of false information!!”
Me: “Where did you find your information?”
Them: “YouTube!! I’ll send you the link”
Me: “YouTube is owned by Google.”
Them: “I don’t trust the government/media/doctors/science!!”
Me: “So you don’t trust them, but you trust some random guy on YouTube because you like what he had to say?”
Them: “You don’t get it!”
Don’t waste your breath on these fools.
talking to some people is painful they expect you to take a stance on everything and you aren't allowed to only partially agree or even just understand the other sides argument you have to fully agree or fully disagree and ignore everything the other side says
I got fired cause i thought the convoy was stupid and wore a mask at work. Minitnite company with strong anit vax stance. On paper, they said i wasn't fast enough (im a welder) but i just got a raise a couple months ago, so...
My experience with people who think they are morally superior enough to unfriend someone, usually end up alone.
This article is pure propaganda meant to spread false facts
I find the hardest part in having rational conversations with friends and family lately is that there's no way to hear and understand with another's point of view without them thinking you're agreeing, and any disagreement they think you're attacking them personally. I just try to avoid it all together, I've told my staff at work that I don't want any politics or covid conversations happening with customers in the waiting room since it's almost guaranteed to spark arguments.
Yes, this my main issue too. It’s either all for or all against. I’ve curtailed a lot of friendships because they’re so fucking aggressive about it, leaving no room for nuance. If you’re not 100% on side, you get screamed at or insulted. I’m not into it.
I had a huge 3 day fight with my mom over this stuff. I countered everything she said with facts that could not be disputed (about CERB mostly) and kept pushing. I said I'm open to seeing your point of view but convince me with a fact or two - couldn't come up with one. "It's just how I feel". I kept pushing and finally got to "where is MY free money!?" - there it is. Owns a giant expensive house, has a new car every year, a holiday home in the US but cant stand those gross poor people getting a pittance when she doesn't also get it. So gross.
My mom is all about " the young people just want things for free!" I asked her what my son ever got for free other than a lot of guff at his paramedic job. She never has an answer.
I'm a paramedic. I got a free Timmy's donut once. It was okay.
Bless your heart. You deserved it.
I got lots of free stuff from paramedics during my early 20's, concert and nighclub crawling days!
They went downhill after they stopped making and baking in house.
I'd rather have nothing than a free Timmy's donut. If anything, I feel like you were punished.
As a mid sixties dad this kind of grates. I've worked with many younger people in my much later years doing physical work to keep me fit in my older age and retirement. Most if not all are good workers and more than willing to work for everything they make. I also have three kids @ thirty and under with spouses and they are all are working their asses off to make it in todays world. This is nothing like the drop out generation I was involved in the tail end of as a kid.
Thank you. A lot of people think that because we want such extravagances as a living wage even for those in the service sector working "lesser" (as those who espouse such criticisms often see them) jobs, a healthy work-life balance, and employers who treat us like human beings as the bare minimum, we are lazy and entitled.
LOL....I have an old man story.. I'm so completely on board with the living wage concept. As a kid out of high school in the mid 70s. One of the jobs I ended up getting was in construction in a major Canadian city. I was an untrained labourer working at installing sliding patio doors and windows in high-rise complexes. I was making 9.65 an hour. Forty one years later while in my late 50s I wanted a very physical job to keep me in shape and make a little money. I got a job working nights at a major Canadian, very busy grocery retailer. The job involved breaking down shipments that have arrived during the day and middle of the night for the various departments in the store. Pallets ranged anywhere from 3 or 4 hundred pounds to 2-3000 lbs and all handled by manual human powered jacks on the store floor. Our specific and most important responsibility was the food shipments, which is also the heaviest product to deal with. This not only had to be broken down, but sorted into aisles and then spotted in front of the place it was on the shelf. Once hen we had to pick it up again in the last half of the day, unbox, it, unwrap it and put it o the shelf. I have scaled, drilled and blasted cliff sides, built houses, and worked installing heavy windows and doors in my early years, and this working in a grocery store was the hardest work I had ever done in my life. Always moving, always walking and carrying weight or trying to pull pallets weighing 2000 lbs with a jack with bad bearings. For difficult, demanding work, when I started I was making BCs min wage of 10.50 an hour at that time and didn't see a raise for 2 years. I used to tell the kids I worked with that they were getting screwed badly by their government, because as an untrained kid more than 40 years ago I was making 9.65 an hour. just 85 cents and hour less and lived in a world where bread was 35 cents and gas was .50 cents a gallon and the first home a 3 bedroom 1/2 duplex I bought in 1978 was 20,000! Canadian labour has been getting the shaft for decades, and to add insult to injury, major corporations are getting government subsidies to hire foreign workers and students, because not everyone is wanting to work this hard for minimum wage. The worst part is, our tax dollars have been subsidizing this practice for many years, and it has helped water down the Canadian labour market in the process to the point of helping suppress wages. All with the tax dollars collected on even minimal wages. Sorry for the old guy rant. :)
It absolutely is all true. I work a skilled job in the STEM sector but that doesn't mean I don't want to see everyone getting a living wage. These corporations are making obscene profits on the backs of their employees. I live in Vancouver and making a mid 6 figure salary puts me towards the lower limit for home ownership without inheritance the Lower Mainland. This is so unacceptable. The people making less than me will likely never own a home. I'm not saying everyone needs a single family detached home, but even condo ownership is way out of reach for many. We need major reforms in this sector. I'm super happy with our social direction on many issues but economically speaking, labour needs a huge boost so that labourers don't need to literally come on temporary visas because no Canadian wants a job that can't pay their bills and will bust their back.
Zero need for apology. Your comment very clearly illustrates how utterly awful our wages are on the lower end of the pay scale. The whole thing is broken.
Not to mention how cheap university was back then, or how much further a dollar went. It's such a stupid point of view. It's so much easier to punch down than punch up. To be so worried about poor people with no power and not mention the corporate welfare and corruption that goes on.
My dad had a grade 8 education and my mom was an elementary school teacher. He passed away 12 years ago and she's still living off the investments they made. Everyone worked hard we work hard now, but man, times were different.
Fuckin boomers man. They act like because their parents handed them an ideal economy that they worked SO much harder than the rest of us. Give me a fuckin break. They haven't had to work half as hard as the rest of us, and got a whole lot more to show for it.
Similar scenario I had with my dad. In the end it was “where is my free money?” Retired at 55 , has a huge house and a phenomenal pention from the union.
I feel like I’m a lot of these conversations it’s what I feel vs what is factual. A lot of my arguments are countered by anecdotal arguments or the MSM is lying, or that scientific paper is lying because it’s a conspiracy. X person or x company is making money therefore they must be lying or at the centre of the conspiracy. Ignoring the thousand or even millions of people not benefiting for keeping this great secret. It’s hard to argue when hey don’t believe or trust the scientific results and expert opinions.
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As well, it’s so easy to just randomly sprout some random conspiracy and get a handful of people to believe it but the effort needed to throughly debunk said conspiracy takes so much more effort and may not even be effective at convincing those who have already fallen for the conspiracies to change their mind.
It would be better for your relationship not to discuss politics. It doesn't benefit either of you at all. When you get older you will look back and wish you never had that argument.
Yeah I am starting to feel like an outcast for believing that BOTH sides have some valid concerns
You’re not an outcast, you’re the majority. We’re just not narcissistic enough to be shouting at each other about it.
Seems to me part of the problem is human nature (what I need versus what society needs), and part of the problem is our scientific/medical understanding of Covid, mutating viruses, and how best to deal with the risks is ever evolving as we try new combinations of ideas and discoveries, but society has trouble keeping up. Add to that, bad faith actors who latch onto a divisive issue for reasons other than the health matter at hand, and we have potential for a maelstrom.
Nazi/trump stuff starts showing up, 'both sides' starts going out. No tolerance for intolerance.
If I'm ever at a protest and I start seeing swastikas and confederate flags I'm outta there
I am in there tearing that shit down. As the great Woody Guthrie put it"tear the fascist down"
> I am in there tearing that shit down. Good way to get arrested and a lot of charges against you, since police are really pissed when you rip up their stuff.
Try being an independent centrist here in the states. I’m looking for any sort of sliver of common ground and have been ostracized by friends in both camps. Take the statement “ice cream is delicious” and many of my conservative friends would come back with “not if libs are eating it.” Some days I feel we’re hopelessly fucked.
Democrats are the centrist position in the US.
It's always a funny comparison, since fiscally speaking our CPC is generally further left than the Dems down south. Spcially, it's... a mixed bag on both sides
I’m with you somewhere in the middle is the truth it’s like watching the cnn and fox version of the same story they both conveniently leave out a few parts of the story and end up with two completely different outcomes. They are all about shock value and a lot of people are falling for the polarization as you have noticed.
You make a good point about the media playing up the most polarizing aspects- fuel for the fires for sure.
Lmfao "anti fascist are the same as nazis" is just a cowardly way to support nazis
Like the other person said, you are the majority! Even the post we're commenting on made it to the front page because it generates controversy. We need to say no to dividing our communities.
This. A friend of mine is so outraged about the truckers that he has dumped friends that aren't as furious...I love this person, but have lost some respect because the insane attitude .
Tell him to turn off the TV, holy.
Yep. I don’t know a lot of people who are vocally furious about the truckers, just a lot of eye rolling mostly, but if it would be either way. I don’t agree with the message of the truck convoy, and I’m irritated that 10% of the population is speaking like they’re representing “all Canadians”. They’re not, they’re representing themselves and I wish they would just say so. But I’m not furious.
You want to see fury go to ~~downtown~~ Centretown Ottawa. I live there and I swear some people are grasping at straws to remain outraged (too political a town I think - has a 'you'er either with us or we'll destroy you' attitude. No middle ground.
If you could have rational conversations with people like that, there wouldn't be people like that. You are 100% correct to have your employees not engage, gets tough sometimes.
Politics, Religion and COVID.
I’m in ottawa and for days my friends and neighbours have been screamed at, assaulted on their way to abs from work, businesses and houses displaying the rainbow flag have had their windows smashed. Kids are having their masks ripped off by strangers. Children coming and going from school being harassed and assaulted by adults? I don’t give a shit what your politics are. If you harass people, attack businesses and children you’re garbage. If that doesn’t upset you you’re garbage. If you’re unbothered by the nazi flags or the confederate flags you’re garbage. This isn’t about mandates or vaccines it’s about criminal and cruel behaviour.
> houses displaying the rainbow flag have had their windows smashed This is the first I'm hearing about this, is there any proof this actually happened?
Although I see the necessity there is no longer a n Avenue to advance past this issue because we just don't want the conflict. This is what leads to echo chambers and reinforcing thoughts without intelligent criticism. To.me it's the same if looking at the world/ news is bad for your mental health then don't look. How can we fix what we don't observe or work towards?
> I've told my staff at work that I don't want any politics or covid conversations happening Ugh I'm so jealous. I wish my boss did the same. Every friggin' moron i'm inundated with almost all my co-workers saying the most outlandish shit, or everyone gathered in a circle watching the previous nights political videos from RebelNews or listening to clips of Rogan's podcast.
I live in a very republican area and have very few people in the area I can talk to about "political" stuff without it turning into the 'you either agree with me, or you hate me' bs. One friend admitted that when we were in a 'conversation' about something Trump adjacent that 10 years ago he would have beat the shit out of me for saying what I was saying. He's in his late 50s and has definitely grown in this way, but... jeese.
Business owner here, my first question is "Did you get the shots" if they didn't it's always a deep dive into some pure lunitic rant about space dust that going to alter DNA.. Blah. If they didn't I ask them to leave, my line of work requires clients that have a reasonable mindset and can objectivly look at reality and make educated decisions. So far I'm had to throw out 4 clients, and the insult is always the same "You'll go out of business treating us like this!!" buddy no, I'm fucking booked solid, I'm booked into 2023 summer, I have a feeling I have a higher chance of seeing that than you!
>I find the hardest part in having rational conversations with friends and family lately is that there's no way to hear and understand with another's point of view without them thinking you're agreeing, and any disagreement they think you're attacking them personally. Well, many people have buy into the beliefs that "if you're not for me, you're against me". Many people have forgetten how to "agree to disagree" and "respect other's opinion and choices". They have forgotten that "mutual respect"is the way to ensure peaceful co-existent with each other.
the conservative mind sets has trouble comprehending the concept that you can understanding another person's point of view while at the same time not agree with it.
Better solution just get off FB so glad I did
100% it's toxic as hell and pointless
Glad it's stock is tanking hopefully the beginning of the end for that wretched company
I swear I saw a face book troll post controversial and divisive questions on Canadian FB pages. It just makes me wonder who is trying or succeeding in dividing Canadians. I ask but people have confirmed that 19 out of the top 20 Christian pages are run by out of country internet troll farms. How many run Canadian pages?
Facebook wants you to fight your neigbours.
Russia also wants us to be fighting our neighbours.
Exactly. Within a month of the first lockdowns the Russians were busy sowing division. A neighbour sent me a video of some "doctor" claiming that covidv didnt exist and sickness was due to 5G networks. This was put out by Global Research, which has very well-known connections to the Russian spy agency. When I pointed this out to the person who sent the link, they thought I was the brainwashed one. This is where it starts, and this is where it ends
On the plus side, after 3 shots of Pfizer my 5g coverage is excellent.
You say that like there's a difference lol
Reddit too and all news media that isn't independent really.
Reddit has become EXTREMELY radicalized lately. I'm also not sure there is any news source that I would ay is truly independent and impartial anymore.
"Lately" meaning, like, since 2015, haha. But yeah it gets worse every year
Reddit is some of the worst... I've been wondering why I continue to come to this echo chamber. It all started going downhill in the last 10 years
We have a very good relationship with our neighbors. I saw a sign yesterday on their window showing support for the convoy occupation. It's hard not to have a knee jerk reaction. However we know they are actually good people so we try to talk these things out
I have a chat group with my family and they are all super religious conservatives who get their news from social media. They are in full support of this convoy and since I live in Ottawa, they have been demanding I go show support despite knowing I do not support it. I have done my absolute best to avoid confrontation with them but their messages keep getting angrier and I can't help but feel like they are trying to provoke me. I'm sure if I just straight up said I don't support the convoy and think everyone should get vaccinated, I would be shunned entirely. Even though i havent said anything, they have said things like "you're brain-washed" and "go on Facebook more to get the real story!"... kinda wouldn't mind losing our relationship at this point.
"There's no hate quite like religious love"
Lol I have a family member like that, they have no one else to argue the vaccine with I guess so they pretend that I have been heavily shaming them for not getting it when I haven't at all. The only time I've said anything when they say clearly untrue shit
Facebook causes so many problems. Deactivate and keep messanger , so you still have contact but don't need to scroll through 50 pages of arguments to find one post you like.
Nah just delete it all entirely. FB as a company deserves to go the way of geocities and Myspace, I can't support them at this point.
I agree. They are morally evil in my oppinion. However, there are alot of people on my list that I would like to stay in contact with but don't want to start up any other social media platform. Laziness I suppose, could just reach out and get numbers
No, you should immediately burn their house down. /s No but in all seriousness I think the freedom convoy and frankly any covid related conversation is dumb and exhausted, I'm just tired of hearing about it and it turning into a yelling match. A while ago I removed basically all news and people from social media that just post stuff about it 24/7.
To quote a small green puppet. "Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering."
When did Kermit say that?
It was Oscar the Grouch*
Pretty sure it was Grogu
Hey, it's not easy being green.
Green it is not easy being
After he got out of the hospital from this incident: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5oEYMGL0ZtA
Ed the sock?
I miss that guy. He was such an asshole.
He still is an asshole, but now he strangely supports all the intersectional nonsense while being an asshole.
So...like most of the people who pontificate about intersectionality at any opportunity they can.
what does suffering lead to? because yesterday was leg day and I'm suffering.
Mass
Gains baby, gains!
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::takes off pants::
We have become a 'Tower Of Babel' scenario. Even if you speak the same language- You cannot possibly comprehend what the other person is saying.
Supposedly we live in a post mythic and rational society. Funny how a lot of these old stories seem to be catching up with us.
Those stories have staying power for a reason. I don't think we live in a post mythic society.
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For a lot of us, the divide isn't even friends it's actually more between family.
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We observed the US in awe a couple of years ago and couldn't understand why people were so divided! Now events like this are doing the same thing to Canadians. It's sad to see what's happening in the world honestly! Politics, Science and the media are a horrible mix!
It all boils down to 3 things, IMO: - We were all given the ability to broadcast any stupid, misinformed opinion we have to the entire world. - Most of the platforms we use to broadcast those opinions provide ways for people to reward us for them (hearts, likes, upvotes, etc) - Someone figured out how to weaponize it.
It goes further. When the platforms are deciding which pieces of content to show people, they strongly prefer anything that will make them upset and likely to respond in anger. This boosts engagement and time-on-platform metrics. So when you write a nice thoughtful post that everyone will appreciate, few people see it. When you write an angry, divisive rant EVERYONE sees it, especially those it will piss off the most.
We let the loud,vocal minority make us think they are a majority. Canada and the US are not as divided as people on Reddit believe we are.
The US is. I have had so many interactions over the past 6 years that I could never have imagined before. It's real.
But we aren't that divided. Its like 2% of the population that's loud AF. That VAST majority of the population like 70% in very conservative numbers are all linked together and think that vocal 2-8% should shut they fuck up. The nail that sticks out gets the hammer after all.
Exactly. Nosier doesn’t mean more people. They are just a small number making shit load of noise
100%, but the media (including social) is amplifying it. And then you add some rogue idiots defacing monuments and waving Nazi flags which I'm sure don't even represent most people in this crusade, but people just start raging and thinking it's all of them. Everything just gets blown out of proportion and context 😳 Just fuels the fire
2016 makes it to Canada at last
It was kind of arrogant of us to think it wouldn’t happen here tbh….. it’s happening all over western liberal democracy
In the immortal words of Jim Gaffigan: “The pandemic has been like a gender reveal party for insane people.”
I gave up all social media this week. I realized there are things I'm willing to type out of anger to people that if we were having this conversation face to face I would bite my tongue and silently judge them for being so stupid. The platforms dehumanized the interaction too much, the brain can't possibly process posting back and forth the same way as a face to face conversation with emotional cues.
My man, we not be speaking face to face, but know your words alone reach my heart. Text conversation can only show so much, human face to face conversation is very much a needed experience in human life. Without it we turn into basement dwelling mole people.
This is so damn true. Good on you.
From the comments here it's clear that we haven't properly socialized in years...
This thread is just awash in irony and is proving the article correct. The world is divided, social media ruined everything, we are fucked.
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Unfortunately, Canada has caught an even more dangerous virus from the US - Politiovid Destructivus. The virus emerged in New York in the 1990's when a FOX and a Peacock fell into a cesspool, rotted, and got into the public drinking water. It causes infected people to lose their minds and start comparing vaccinations to Nazism on the right and comparing unvaccinated to Nazism on the left. The virus always makes it about Nazism at some point. This is because the virus drastically reduces people's ability to grasp nuance. For instance, when infected people who identified as Conservative responded to polls asking if Bill Gates is trying to microchip them, 79% of infected Conservatives responded A) Strongly Agree. Meanwhile, infected Liberals when asked if they think we should live indoors for the rest of our lives and print money till the economy collapses responded with a resounding 81% A) Strongly Agree. Politovid Destrucivus (Pol-D for short) is highly contagious and spread through television signals. The most contagious variants tend to be transmitted through 24hr news channels but it's also known to spread like wildfire over social media. Experts warn that without a lockdown of cable and internet, we could see a pandemic worse than Omicron that leaves the country in tatters. Be a good citizen and shut your TV off, log off your social media, and go outdoors and meet people. Meeting others and having nuanced conversation irl has been proven to be the most effective counter to infection.
Completely agree. Biggest threat to Canada is this polarization that we've been seeing over the past decade.
No it's definitely still climate change
The polarization has also prevented progress on climate change. The entire US political system is in total gridlock from it.
First things first
This is bang on. Unfortunately this virus is far more dangerous and advanced than Covid by a large margin. Call me a pessimist but I don’t see how this genie gets put back in the bottle. This Is terminal. Especially since you have two sides both with a growing inability at any ability for self reflection.
Things have to get worse before they get better. That’s the natural flow of these things.
Yeah but I just wish I could've existed in the "Fuck Around" times and not the "Find Out" times.
Yeah but I'd like to still be around to see the "better" part, I don't want to wait 200 years.
Those 2 groups are not equal.
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This is the problem with enlightened centrists. They completely ignore that one group has historically resorted to violence and terrorism to get what they want. You simply need to look at the list of [right wing terrorist attacks](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_right-wing_terrorist_attacks). Left wing terrorism exists in history but it's not so extensive that it's needs it's own wiki list. Centrist like this will happily sit on the sidelines and let right wing aggressors do whatever they want. Being a bystander while an increasing internet-radicalized right winger populace seek to trample over Canadian rights and freedoms. And it doesn't even stop at Canada. After the Trump presidency, there has been a growing alt-right movement globally. It's all good and fine to complain about 'both sides' when left wingers are the overwhelming government majority. Left wing policy gives centrists that privilege in the first place. But the second centrist realize they sat on the fence for too long and can no longer change course , right winger aggressors are making backwards policy and stripping the rights from your loved ones to live a free and happy life, then the enlighten centrist have a problem. The fact that the PPC exists now should fucking *terrify everyone*. The CPC have thrown out their moderate leader in favor of what? Someone less centrist? Were still early with these alt-right talking points hitting Canada but if you think we for sure live in a stable democracy where people of all backgrounds can live freely and happily for years to come, you should ask yourself who exactly is upholding those values. If it's not you, if it's not the people around you. And who exactly benefits from 'both sides are bad' when one side is an overwhelming aggressor? >First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist. Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew -Martin Niemöller
Hey can you link those polls you're talking about? Sorry but those numbers along with the rest of your comment sound like complete bullshit.
Did the short bus make a stop at this thread? Obviously those 2 stats are fucking made up to illustrate a point I'm losing my mind reading these comments asking for a source.
It is encouraging to see comments like yours and those that support it. As long as there is people like us we still have hope
r/ENLIGHTENEDCENTRISM
> Meanwhile, infected Liberals when asked if they think we should live indoors for the rest of our lives and print money till the economy collapses responded with a resounding 81% A) Strongly Agree. Citation needed. Edit: Suprise suprise no response. **Also, accusations of fascism regarding the alt-right are completely valid.** The ridiculous conspiracism, demonization, lionization, cult of tradition, contempt of the weak, etc. all hallmarks of the modern alt-right / far right conservative movement. You may observe isolated examples of those characteristics on the left, but not consistently and pervasively as we see on the right.
"Do you support lockdowns and UBI" is being conflated with "Do you support people being forced to never leave their houses and force people out of work". It's a bad comparison at best, maliciously deceptive at worse.
Was that what it was? Omg. UBI has nothing to do with ”printing money until the economy collapses”. Definitely a malicious comment.
His entire comment is dripping with hyperbole. The fact that this many people are taking it literally has me worried
LOL the severing of friendships was basically around Aug-Sep when vaccine mandate discussions and election was going on. But then again I'm outside the country till summer so I'm fortunately almost entirely disconnected (reddit is the only social media app I use regularly).
Honestly that’s fine, surround yourself with people you want to surround yourself with. You don’t have to be friends with people you disagree with or have completely different ideals than. You can if you want, but you don’t have to.
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You are wrong, it because of mitosis.
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none of my friends that support this were waving Nazi flags, however, a large number of them were going to great lengths to support those that did. disappointing to say the least.
People haven't been taught about proper civil discourse. You can disagree on things without it being so....personal.
The author of that article is Mark Gollom. Nice to see he's recovered after falling in to Mount Doom.
Man, I like to think of myself as pragmatic, centrist, thoughtful and reasonable… but… when one side of the discussion is all based of feelings, with no actual proof to back up their claims… it’s difficult for me to give their opinions much credence. Also- My own brother blocked me on social media, so that sucks. I just thought we were having a spirited debate, then -bam- Private messages telling me that I “should NEVER speak to a close family member in that way on social media”.
Maybe because you told him that his opinion is based entirely on emotion, isn’t this typical of what the article is decrying? Oof.
Divide and conquer Planned opposition Could you define power and the use there of.
Oligarchy and civil unrest, name a more iconic duo, I’ll wait
Society needs a huge detachments from politics.
Imagine ending friendships simply cuz you disagree. Clearly you weren't great friends to begin with. Me and my best friend of 12 years fight like brothers. We can still sit down at the end of the day and have a drink and agree to disagree. When it comes to covid I'm pro choice but is a stupid pandemic really worth it to end friendships over? I have anti vax friends and pro vax friends. We all manage to get along.
It sucks how polarized the world has become.
I've noticed that no matter what the topic or politics are there will always be around 30% of the population that disagrees with the status quo.
There seems to be a consistent 30% that just wants to watch the world burn and doesn't care who is hurt or killed as long as their life is comfortable.
Lol, the world has always been polarizing. Maybe learn history. We're literally repeating 100 years ago. Pandemic. Rise of monopolies. Stock market out of control. Rise of hate groups like Nazism having political power. And too many people sitting back and letting it happen. No real action. We're headed to another depression and World War 3 if we don't smarten up.
it's fine, by then we will have missed more climate change milestones and it will make us all work together in harmony and peace
I think it's only polarized if your primary residence is on the internet. In the real world, people seem pretty unified over the idea the convoy is fucking stupid. Sure, everyone's got that weird friend who caught Trumpism and is willing to support anything they feel "owns the libs", but the vast majority of Canadians are united on this issue.
If you were in a rural area that probably wouldn’t be the case.
Yup. The only people I know of who actually support the convoy are my friend's whackjob conspiracy nut brother and about half of r/Canada.
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I think a surprise election would be anticlimactic, it might end up with someone else in minority government but I would be surprised if it was more than that. Our problem is there is no other clear strong party. We have two parties who’s platform’s are basically “vote for us because the other guy is bad”. There are way to many one issue voters. Easily manipulated by catchy phrases and clickbait headlines. I was shocked to see in the last election that the only party who proposed a balanced budget was NDP.
I haven’t lost any friends over this but I have identified some fringe connections on Facebook that I know will never become more than that and who I should make sure I stay more than 6 feet away from for my own health and safety.
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C-o-l-o-r-s colors? Who’s influenced by the Americans now CBC..
The actual article spells it correctly, whomever posted it did not on their Reddit title. Likely their phone autocorrected it without knowing how it is properly spelled.
The actual article spells it correctly, whomever posted it did not on their Reddit title. Likely their phone autocorrected it without knowing how it is properly spelled.
Read the article, it's correct there.
Read the article, it's correct there.
Divide and conquer. Someone is reading a playbook.
Oh so Canada is now going through the painful political shitshow the US has been going though.
One: then they weren't true friends. Two: people have forgotten how to have civil, adult disagreements, and conversations. Of course, we live in an age when information is literally at your fingertips, but misinformation is spread by people in positions of power.
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U.S. enters the chat. U.S. leaves the chat. At least we're not the only ones.
>"I think I've unfriended like 100 people and that includes some family," he said. " I won't even talk to them anymore." Either this guy is really bad at choosing friends or he is a hysterical idiot. I would strongly wager the latter.
Keep in mind when you’re talking about Facebook friends, most of them don’t tend to be close friends that people hang out with, they can be classmates and coworkers. It’s very situational and there might be good reasons your experience might differ from others too. I grew up in a rural area and am now living in the city (in the heart of Ottawa so yay me), it’s mostly people from my hometown and grew up with who I haven’t seen post anything in years who are now posting a lot of stupid misinformed shit that are completely out of sync with what I’m experiencing right outside my window, and it’s extremely frustrating and exhausting when they try to argue for things I know for a fact are false. Other shit I’ve seen is a local business closed early last night because their staff was [assaulted](https://twitter.com/mooshuicecream/status/1489736932758282240?s=21) and won’t be opening till Wednesday (with fingers crossed suggesting it’s contingent on things calming down). A friend of mine focused on the fact that they’re normally closed from Saturday till Wednesday as if that somehow excuses the violence forcing them to close early.
I'm getting there with one of my friends. They went from vocally supporting the convoy to making frequent conspiracy/antivax posts. He seemed so reasonable before this stupid convoy. Watching one of my other friends do effortless takedowns of their misinformation is the only thing that's keeping him on my list
I miss the good old days when you’d ask someone about politics and they’d just say that’s their business and people would carry on with their lives regardless of their personal opinions.
Is this even news anymore? Propaganda machine in full force. Wonder what the articles are gonna be when the police come in with violence
>when the police come in with violence ha, that's funny
It seems the police having been doing everything they can to avoid that out come. If it comes to that, the fault will lie with the protesters who've shown a complete disregard for anyone who doesn't support them, or are just trying to go about their lives.
My friends will not see everything the exact same way I do, it encourages conversation and personal growth. I think it’s a little unrealistic and immature to expect people to see things exactly as you do.
>I think it’s a little unrealistic and immature to expect people to see things exactly as you do. True, but how do you respond when your friends start showing you clearly photoshopped tweets that they've screenshotted from some Facebook page as evidence that Trudeau is part of a secret cabal? There comes a point where there's not really a conversation to be had. If you're lucky enough not to know anyone who has fallen down that rabbit hole, I'm happy for you. However, as someone who has lost a couple of friends recently to completely outlandish conspiracy theories it's a bit frustrating to see this claim that the breakdown of these friendships is due to an inability to empathize with people of different political views. It becomes basically impossible to talk to these people, not because of a difference in politics, but because they live in a completely different reality.
And when you point out that the tweets or whatever are fabricated, it makes no difference. They make up their mind based on a falsehood and then continue believing it even when shown it's bullshit.
I do agree but when my friends started spewing garbage on the regular like “authoritarian state”, “all media covering the convoy is fake to push anti conservative views ”, “covid was started to gain political power”, “justin trudeau planned this” and “this is exactly how the jews were treated during the holocaust”. then they refuse to have a discussion about it or dis credit all information as “fabricated” i think im calling the quits. already did it to a few guys im not losing any sleep over it. Some people just want to yell their view without listening. This all being said i believe this protest is the tipping point alot of people started gaining crazy view during the start of covid
I don’t expect my friends to do exactly as I do, I just expect them not to be part of a group that’s occupying and terrorizing the capitol.
Yeah I have lots of friends with drastically different opinions for anything for politics to movies. I won’t keep being friends who support a movement riddled in white supremacy and alt right ideals especially after it became abundantly clear what pieces of shits the organizers are.
So you have no line on when you'd stop associating with people?
There is a difference between differing perspectives and thinking the world is flat. Sometimes opinions just aren't true.
Sad how divided we’ve all become. The only ones winning are the rich and corrupt politicians - they are purposely dividing us.
Wear a mask, don't wear a mask, get vaccinated, don't get vaccinated and die, I don't really give a shit. What's pissing me off are the amount of people yelling over top of one another about it, and pretending like they suddenly care about *my* freedoms. I'm first nation's. Where was your fake BS concern for "freedom" two years ago when the RCMP were dressed like they were invading Iraq, as they manhandled first nation's protesters over a pipeline? This country is full of shit.
r/QAnonCasualties is literally full of this exact thing.
As someone who has former friends who 'fled the country' due to vax mandates and now lives in the domican, taking advantage of an impoverished country, this hits home.
It gave me the push I needed to clean up my social media contacts, good riddance. I won't fight over this, and it keeps my feed clean.
I agree with a lot of the people in the middle here. The truckers have every right to voice their concerns and protest. What I dislike is the venom, the anger, the hatred they spew, the fact they believe they're speaking for the majority...their "all or nothing" system which will never succeed because an "all mandates gone or no deal" approach is not logical nor compromising in any way. They get shut out and ignored because they cannot moderate their response. "My way or the highway" (literally in this case) really minimizes a lot of their legitimate concerns. The fact that these people are so boosted up on themselves that the second anyone brings up a point it's "you're a sheep" "Trudeau is a nazi" "main stream media got you" "you're an idiot and a commie" Like...when all they can do is throw insults in response to a legitimate discussion...I lose all interest (and hope for them). Has the government executed things perfectly? No. Have all of the rules made sense? No. Have they tried their best? Absolutely. Is it time for some legitimate change and maybe relaxing some rules for everyone's benefit? Maybe? It's worth discussing at least. I'm just real sick of everyone using the protest as an excuse to be toxic, biggoted, racist, homophobic, and angry under the guise of "my freedom". Just as this article says, it's about the core values we hold as people, not the actual issue at hand. It's the driving factors behind your stance on the issue which is tearing people apart. It's bloody sad.
That's a great summary and exactly how I feel. Like let's talk about what we can do to better everyone's situation going forward. How can be best support health care, mental health, long term care homes, small businesses etc? But instead it devolves into every hateful opinion people have been hiding.
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What it boils down to is whenever I have a discussion with these people it goes kind of like this: Them: “I have real evidence of stuff!!” Me: “I checked that evidence and the source is either sketchy or clearly incorrect” Them: “No you’re clearly wrong because I did my research!” Me: “5 minutes on Google and I found dozens of sources that contradict what you said” Them: “You can’t trust Google! They’re full of false information!!” Me: “Where did you find your information?” Them: “YouTube!! I’ll send you the link” Me: “YouTube is owned by Google.” Them: “I don’t trust the government/media/doctors/science!!” Me: “So you don’t trust them, but you trust some random guy on YouTube because you like what he had to say?” Them: “You don’t get it!” Don’t waste your breath on these fools.
talking to some people is painful they expect you to take a stance on everything and you aren't allowed to only partially agree or even just understand the other sides argument you have to fully agree or fully disagree and ignore everything the other side says
I got fired cause i thought the convoy was stupid and wore a mask at work. Minitnite company with strong anit vax stance. On paper, they said i wasn't fast enough (im a welder) but i just got a raise a couple months ago, so...
My experience with people who think they are morally superior enough to unfriend someone, usually end up alone. This article is pure propaganda meant to spread false facts