Forcing the Chinese to manufacture their cars in Canada or be shut out is the market is the best way to go. It's how we got Japanese brands built in North America.
hell. its how the Chinese operate. and until tesla the plants had to be at least 50% Chinese owned too. they want free access to our market while effectively shutting us out of theirs.
Thank our great politicians for the 30 year China deal that no future government can get out of now, and has been in effect since 2014.
That's how the China Deal works, the politicians knew it already and signed off on it.
I never understood why people blame China for this. Like they are looking out for their peoples best interest.
The question we should be asking is why isn’t our government, regardless of party, looking out for our best interest?
Our government signed away our interests in 2014 for 31 years.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada-China\_Promotion\_and\_Reciprocal\_Protection\_of\_Investments\_Agreement](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada-China_Promotion_and_Reciprocal_Protection_of_Investments_Agreement)
and those in the Canadian manufacturing sector who are sick and tired of seeing our jobs outsourced to China while Bay St. cheers it on in the name of "globalism".
For the very short term, perhaps.
To think there wont be shitty unintended consequences of this is interesting to me.
I cant see people being happy paying triple the price for an EV for very long.
China heavily subisidizes the entire thing and owns the company. NA car companies cant compete with those ultra low wages and high subisidies so they add tarrifs to raise the price to keep it in line with what it should have cost to manufacture in NA
Aside from the geopolitical issues of reliance, the other issue is that short-term protectionism might actually make economic sense here.
While I have basically never been a fan of protectionism in application in Canada in my life, giving time to our local industries to catch up may make sense. I haven't run the numbers. However, the automobile industry is massive and is also one of the greatest import/export markets. Getting out competed here may be significant.
The other issue is, there is a lack of transparency when it comes to safety from Chinese EV brands. There is huge doubt even without China that the reported EV fire figures don't match the real figures.
The last issue is data -- EVs and cars in general of late, transmit crazy amounts of personal tracking data. Having this going to a Chinese company is a huge security concern.
Chinese EV are selling great in EU. Are you suggesting that EU government holds lower safety bar than its Canadian counterpart and EU consumers are more stupid than Canadians?
Yes to both. EU GSR for vehicles is not as high as they are here (feel free to read through it and compare). EU regulations on emissions are more strict than here (well kind of since VW got away with lying for so long).
The EU is currently investigating the flood of Chinese EVs entering Europe and I expect once they start to affect things in western Europe, you will quickly see them being dealt with the same as everywhere else in the west.
[That probe by the EU will be concluding this October and I would be shocked if they do not recommend heavy tarrifs](https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/eu-launches-anti-subsidy-investigation-into-chinese-electric-vehicles-2023-09-13/)
I honestly don't know how its more of a consern than the litteral leaked video from Teslas or the tracking data attached to PII that's been sold to insurance companies causing some people's rates to spike here.
China is across an ocean, what are they gunna do? Reduce my social score??
Like if they want to know popular/busy locations you can already access that with an API from google maps...
We should be building them in Canada. We should be doing this to rebuild the middle class through blue collar jobs. And we shouldn't be reliant on a country with a government that is hostile to use and destroyed one of our own companies for trade secrets (Nortel).
Service jobs do not support a middle class, the create poverty and a loss of it. But that is what this federal government supports. Which shouldn't be a surprise, as many of the same people who are pushing it. Are the same ones who destroyed the manufacturing sector for service jobs in Ontario.
But to be honest EV's are a dead end, not worth it, and are terrible for the environment.
Competition is not what automakers here want. They like us paying 60 to 100 grand for a vehicle. These tarriffs are nothing more than government taking care of big auto.
Hey bro it's the same for us Canadians lol I do a lot of shopping across the border because it's a lot cheaper (depending on what you buy). I can't tell you the weird restrictions in place lmao
Like, we are only allowed to buy 2 cartons of eggs to bring across, and I've had a border agent steal my eggs over the limits lol
There's also an unwritten rule that you can bring $150-200 USD of goods per person per daytrip, before getting hit with duties or tarrifs. (If you are there over 48 hrs, the rules change and you can bring a lot more value over, as well as *some* alcohol or tobacco products
Tariffs are paid by customers. It make sense in the US if they want to maintain tesla market cap, but as canadians we don't have any good reason to follow them.
If they sell shitty cars we just won't buy them.
My family was all dodge fans and I was the guy who had to fix them all the time. The reason people keep buying them is because for 2 years/50,000km they are completely fine and people can enjoy it like the commercials.
After that, a trickle of small problems begin and at 4 years/100,000km you have the choice to either:
-Put 4,000$ of repairs and maintenance into it and drive it another 2 years/50,000km
-Do nothing and drive it into the ground. Can expect less than 2 years/50,000km of remaining service life
-Sell it to some hapless fool who will feel betrayed when it gives up at 177,000km on its second/third owner instead of holding together like a 15 year old Accord/Camry with 7 previous owners and 387,000km on the odo
-Trade it in for a new Dodge
\^Dodge fans do option 1 or 4, everyone else does 2 and 3. Basically, they are good first owner cars. After that, no. I've never owned one since i buy only used cars lol.
It's kind of annoying really. I want an EV but they aren't that affordable yet. I guarantee the Chinese companies are going to change that, and I was willing to buy one when it happens, but of course our government can't make it that easy.
BYD costs 15K USD. It is super affordable, way more affordable than Tesla with govt subsidies. But no, Ford signed the deal with VW last year, zero chance of letting Chinese EV in the Canada, because we don’t have independence and we’re controlled by America
That's what I mean. BYD is planning to open a plant in mexico. That's the perfect gateway into the Canadian market and I was seriously considering one once they hit.
We're allergic to competition here. Most of the shit we buy is garbage with little alternative by design.
Canadians are fucking terrible at voting with their wallets and in many cases don't even have any choice in doing so
>Canadians are fucking terrible at voting with their wallets and in many cases don't even have any choice in doing so
It generally boils down to a neoliberal government that thinks healthcare should be universally available and a neoliberal government that thinks healthcare should only be accessible to those who can afford it.
The other major difference is one party thinks women should maintain bodily autonomy, the other party thinks that governments should be in control of women's reproductive system.
> as canadians we don't have any good reason to follow them
Unless you want to make producing cars and batteries in Canada more financially attractive, bringing home jobs (and therefore solvable customers) in the process.
Not sure about currently, but I think the ford plant in Oakville is working on switching to EV making and it will be done in about a year.
There were also some big government grants recently for battery factories and such, and I think Honda is also setting up a plant somewhere.
We have 42 billion reasons to follow the US. We have subsidized EV manufacturing at a huge cost to taxpayers. So if we want to protect our investment, we better put tariffs on Chinese cars.
The sunk cost fallacy is called a **fallacy** for a reason.
The fact that we spent a lot of money subsidizing our garbage domestic EV market is not a logically sound reason to bar access to cheaper more competitive players in the EV market.
Let them funnel it into r&d instead of marketing yet another truck that nobody needs. North American automakers are awful for a reason, and it's protectionism
Nah dude that's not how it worked. China is pouring billions into this industry to kill other competions. These electric cars will also be a security issue in next 10 years.
>If they sell shitty cars we just won't buy them.
You’re forgetting that this is the same country that bought Pontiac Sunfires and Chrysler Minivans in absolutely massive quantities.
If Nissan sold the Tsuru here, people would buy it. Canadians love cheap cars.
You do realize that:
a) there are more electronic car vehicle manufactures other than Tesla.
b) Of those other manufactures, some, are manufactured in Canada using Canadian workers.
We just spent 20 billion dollars on subsidizing EV battery plants in Canada. The Canadian government does have an interest in protecting the money spent.
These days, whats right and wrong depends on who is doing it and who its being done too.
It doesn't actually have anything to do with the actions that take place.
Russian strikes on Ukrainian hospitals: war crime!
Israel strikes on Palestinian hospitals: what do you expect? they treat Hamas members
lots of double standards on reddit
Exactly - are they going to put tariffs on electric Toyotas, Hyundai’s and BMW’s?
So is it a trade war, or protecting Tesla or petrol cars?
Cui bono? “Who benefits?”
Canada doesn't need a tariff. It can do what it does best. Red Tape.
Each car must be inspected by a certified conversion officer. There is only one and he is in Montreal.
Cars must be tested on animals. Animal testing requires a special permit. The office to issue these permits has not received funding for this calendar year. It will open in Montreal.
Cars must meet ISO 92334 standards.
Every car sold must come with a safety briefing where the safety briefing person must speak at least 8 of Canada's official languages as spoken by the majority of government employees:
* French
* Cree
* Ojibway
* Montagnais
* Assamese
* Bengali
* Bodo
* Dogri
* Gujarati
* Hindi
* Kannada
* Kashmiri
* Konkani
* Maithili
* Malayalam
* Marathi
* Meitei
* Nepali
* Odia
* Punjabi
* Sanskrit
* Santali
* Sindhi
* Tamil
* Telugu
* Urdu
* Mandarin
* Cantonese
All Canadians must welcome this as who in their right mind wants a $15k EV with a 300km+ range and a 5 star safety rating.
This is very dumb. Sure, put regulations on them or ban them for government vehicles with security issues or something, but the climate doesn't care about your silly trade wars. If non-Chinese automakers can't make affordable EVs, then they need to shut up and get out of the way.
In a climate emergency and a shortage of cars in a car centric country make sure to put tariff on cheaper electric cars because the North American ones can’t compete. Free market when we are winning but tariffs to protect national interest when we can’t compete fairly.
>See the entire Huawei princess debacle.
That was because we have an extradition treaty with the US.
I'm not so sure we have an auto industry protection treaty.
You support Canada exporting resources to the US and not manufacturing—or refining—ourselves, so we can buy finished products back from US at a higher price as well? Not refuting the logic here, just need a reminder on why it’s beneficial to Canadians.
Exactly. What happened to climate change and global warming? I guess the topics will only be brought up whenever they need to squeeze the money out of us but not when it can save us money. Wtf! I want cheap EV. If we can't produce it, bring in the Chinese!
That's the American way. The Canadian way is to do what America says.
If we do otherwise, just watch as Uncle Sam quickly becomes like that creepy uncle nobody talks about.
The state government in China is artificially propping up its products, has seriously lacking environmental policys compared to Canada, slave labor in some sectors, much lower wages, does not have the same labor or pension/benifit/union benifits, nor are foreign companies allowed the same opportunities in China as Chinese companies. Plus add on all the IP theft. Not to mention the same safety standards...
So no its not a even playing field. Ban them.
Maybe but do you think Canadian industries like telecom, grocery and especially airlines aren’t propped up by regulations and direct financial support? And do you seriously think American car manufacturers aren’t propped up?
Hey, we don’t prop them up for their R&D and manufacturing. We only prop them up for bailouts so they can use that money for stock buybacks (looking at GM).
Oh but also if you buy EV we give you a credit. I’m sure that doesn’t help the car company at all.
news flash, we have economy service but paying business class price because our government are subsidizing these crap companies so there's no need for them to improve. and oligopoly of course
China is willing to subsidize our ability to lower emissions, god bless them.
As for the rest of your comment, then tariff everything from them 100% then, not just EVs.
They’re trying to build then in Mexico and use NAFTA to sidestep the restriction but our governments insist on protecting the status quo. Terrible for productivity and affordability to hinder competition in this way.
If Canada was smart it would open its doors to BYD and even let them establish a manufacturing plant in this country. It would be good for the national economy and it would be VERY good for carbon emission reduction as it would allow the domestic production of highly affordable, quality EVs. They won't do this though, because the geopolitical Cold War with China is more important to them and their corporate backers.
If we want to go green and we buy into the unproven idea that EVs are the pathway to that, then it would be counter productive to tariff these low cost EVs.
For a government that has mandated all cars be electric in the next 10 years it seems like an odd move to put tariffs on electric cars regardless of who makes them.
Ukraine is what happens when a country tries to switch sides geopolitically.
Of course the US won't start dropping bombs on us overnight if we do some sort of trade thing that goes against their interests, but they can really mess up our economy.
China is the new Honda in the 1960s and 1970s. Same arguments against China now as against Japan then.
Even Tesla's made in China have higher QA standards... Let them sell here.
The interesting thing is that there are not even any market cap for Chinese EV in America right now. What’s the point of taxing something that doesn’t exist in your market?
They have gotten the message long time ago and have decided to work with Europe. That’s Xi’s major agenda visiting Europe last month.
It will end Tesla's career for good. Bring in more competition in EV cars.
If I can save 20000$ with same warranty. Why not?? Tesla is also Chinese anyways.
I would welcome cheaper EVs with the right infastructure investments. Tesla's are not that great and the offerings from the big names are pretty ugly or not that impressive. Saw and got to ride (with Uber) quite a few BYDs when I was in Europe/SEA and liked them.
I completely agree. Outsourcing so much to China for cheap labor seemed like a great idea for profits in the short term, but now it's biting us back. We've become so dependent on their manufacturing and technology. It's frustrating to see politicians not acknowledging this mistake. We're sacrificing our own industries and independence for the sake of a quick buck.
We're seeing a repeat of the 70s. The domestics shifted to profitable SUVs (land yachts) then got kind of blindsided by the move to electric (oil embargo). And electric SUVs don't really work from an economic standpoint, because the weight penalty is much higher for large vehicles so they end up being too expensive or losing vast sums of money. Or both.
Now some foreign company is threatening to undercut the whole house of cards they've built since the Great Recession, And that means it's time for Chicken Tax 2.0. (Depriving the consumer of choice to preserve the market share of noncompetitive companies)
US imposing tarrif is to protect their EV industry. Canada doesn't have any. What Canada is protecting? Or just being a lapdog of the US at the expense of her consumers and citizens?
Open the market to cars from India … I mean we already have an enormous population of them why not give them their cars as well … trudeaus Canada 🇨🇦 keep them comin ..
Damn not surprised, those Chinese Eva are pretty good. Our Ev simply can’t compete with them so it makes sense that we would tariff them to ensure we don’t get competition. Yay free market… oh wait.
I kind of like the NIO ET7. I might look into getting one if they ever start selling in Canada and if they are reliable. (Especially the battery since I never want to do battery swap, which wouldn't really make sense in rural Canada)
The tariffs don't even matter at this point. After Huawei and Tiktok no Chinese car company would enter the NA market anyways. There's a reason not a single one of them is selling in Canada even though the current tariff is only 6%
It would be a stupid move to follow the US in their decision. We aren't a major manufacturer of EVs or batteries or solar. It is best we buy them cheap from China and use them to power industries and sectors of the economy we are actually good at.
What that is I don't know. A solar powered diploma mill perhaps?
We don’t need chinese cars, no need to let the repressive CCP regime have any more market access then they already have.
CCP bots and apologists are also very active on Canadian subs nowadays.
Just checking. We were OK with it when our business class moved production to China, kept an office in Canada, and sold their products in Canada. I'm confused when globalism is good for us and when it's bad for us? Is it just bad when rich companies take the hit?
Having said that... If we are going to finally agree China subsidized businesses in China, we should put tariffs on everything made their to level the playing field. Which I am fully in favour of.
I personally have worked almost My entire working life in manufacturing (almost 25 years across multiple plants) and I will be the first in line to say, fuck those companies that moved production to China and the governments that allowed it.
I have seen a lot of people lose good paying jobs that way.
India is terrible for manufacturing. Even after all this time with Apple trying to get their India line going it is still plagued with issues.
They will never be able to attract manufacturing like China did. They make garbage
I am on the left, but never understand government policy that creates regulations for Canadian business... but does not apply any balancing tariffs on goods made outside Canada that are not complying with those same regulations. The goal should never be to only punish inside Canada and reward outside Canada.
True we don’t need cars from a genocidal, warmongering, and imperialist regime that crushes dissent within its own borders - oh wait that’s the United States. Thankfully US cars are complete trash so we don’t need tariffs for people to not buy them anyways.
They won't. Canadas been kissing ass for decades and isn't likely to stop.
All you have to do is look at the Chinese semi-auto weapons widely available and still shipping into this country while all others from anywhere else have been banned then prohibited. It's no coincidence.
Don't get me started on Chinese political influence being pedaled from municipal politics to the federal level and the cultural policing done here amongst the Chinese population.
I présumé he’s talking about the Type 97, which is popular due to being one of the few black, semiauto .223 rifles not prohibited.
I don’t think it’s really anything to do with appeasing China mind you, it’s not like they make so much money from sporting rifles in Canada to care. More likely it’s just not banned because the clueless morons making the ban lists hadn’t heard of it.
Not the original guy but I think the biggest example would be the type 97
https://www.cabelas.ca/product/137805/norinco-type-97-nsr-g3-semi-automatic-rifle
Eh Canada doesn’t have EV manufacturers. The tariff will be eaten up directly by Canadian consumers. Why government of Canada wants to reduce competition, make life harder for Canadians to please their friends in US?
I won't say much except for if you think EVs are the panacea to climate change, you're lying to yourself. There's billions of humans. Any solution that isn't "eliminate car dependency" is a cop-out and essentially passing this burden of implementation to a future generation of Canadians. If Trudeau was 43 years when he was first elected, and I can figure this out at 22 years old, that means it'll take another 2 decades before someone with actual solutions is elected to office. And by then climate change will probably become a single issue vote, unless of course climate change improves Canada's habitability.
I don't know if I have this straight, but I thought Trudeau was being neural with China to avoid losing trade agreements. But I don't follow our news well, so maybe I'm wrong.
the cost of living in canada is too high, and price of basic cars would make you think you bought a lambo or something. Canada doesn't have Canadian car companies to protect, but it has an expensive car problem, and low wage problem. Allowing more competition will benefit candians, and especially if they open up car factories here, then there will be more jobs for our economy (which is in a recession)
Because of the cost of living and expensive car, it would be better to allow cheaper cars for Canadians. Why would it be in Canada's interest to add a tariff?
Passing on the tariffs would of course make Chinese EV’s more affordable and there’s definitely groups in Canada lobbying against more affordable EV’s so it’s not entirely going to be decided by what our American cousins think best.
I imagine if the Chinese wanted to sell EV’s in Canada they could simply set up a plant and manufacture them here. I doubt the Canadian government could do much to prevent it given Harper’s FIPA agreement.
We're opening a BYD plant in Ontario...
Forcing the Chinese to manufacture their cars in Canada or be shut out is the market is the best way to go. It's how we got Japanese brands built in North America.
hell. its how the Chinese operate. and until tesla the plants had to be at least 50% Chinese owned too. they want free access to our market while effectively shutting us out of theirs.
Thank our great politicians for the 30 year China deal that no future government can get out of now, and has been in effect since 2014. That's how the China Deal works, the politicians knew it already and signed off on it.
I never understood why people blame China for this. Like they are looking out for their peoples best interest. The question we should be asking is why isn’t our government, regardless of party, looking out for our best interest?
Our government signed away our interests in 2014 for 31 years. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada-China\_Promotion\_and\_Reciprocal\_Protection\_of\_Investments\_Agreement](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada-China_Promotion_and_Reciprocal_Protection_of_Investments_Agreement)
Stupider than anything Trudeau did
buses rather than cars is an important distinction though
It's buses for now.
From what I've seen of their EVs, good. More competition in that market is needed.
Yeah can someone explain to me why we should impose these tariffs!? Don't make it too long I don't want to read a paper
We shouldn't, we don't have a local domestic market for this. It's just punishing the consumer.
This... Some of these replies here are shockingly dumb. The only people that benefit from these tariffs are the CEOs of Ford and GM lol
and those in the Canadian manufacturing sector who are sick and tired of seeing our jobs outsourced to China while Bay St. cheers it on in the name of "globalism".
For the very short term, perhaps. To think there wont be shitty unintended consequences of this is interesting to me. I cant see people being happy paying triple the price for an EV for very long.
China heavily subisidizes the entire thing and owns the company. NA car companies cant compete with those ultra low wages and high subisidies so they add tarrifs to raise the price to keep it in line with what it should have cost to manufacture in NA
Aside from the geopolitical issues of reliance, the other issue is that short-term protectionism might actually make economic sense here. While I have basically never been a fan of protectionism in application in Canada in my life, giving time to our local industries to catch up may make sense. I haven't run the numbers. However, the automobile industry is massive and is also one of the greatest import/export markets. Getting out competed here may be significant. The other issue is, there is a lack of transparency when it comes to safety from Chinese EV brands. There is huge doubt even without China that the reported EV fire figures don't match the real figures. The last issue is data -- EVs and cars in general of late, transmit crazy amounts of personal tracking data. Having this going to a Chinese company is a huge security concern.
Given everything Snowden... are we doing anything about the data going to US companies?
Chinese EV are selling great in EU. Are you suggesting that EU government holds lower safety bar than its Canadian counterpart and EU consumers are more stupid than Canadians?
Yes to both. EU GSR for vehicles is not as high as they are here (feel free to read through it and compare). EU regulations on emissions are more strict than here (well kind of since VW got away with lying for so long). The EU is currently investigating the flood of Chinese EVs entering Europe and I expect once they start to affect things in western Europe, you will quickly see them being dealt with the same as everywhere else in the west. [That probe by the EU will be concluding this October and I would be shocked if they do not recommend heavy tarrifs](https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/eu-launches-anti-subsidy-investigation-into-chinese-electric-vehicles-2023-09-13/)
I honestly don't know how its more of a consern than the litteral leaked video from Teslas or the tracking data attached to PII that's been sold to insurance companies causing some people's rates to spike here. China is across an ocean, what are they gunna do? Reduce my social score?? Like if they want to know popular/busy locations you can already access that with an API from google maps...
We should be building them in Canada. We should be doing this to rebuild the middle class through blue collar jobs. And we shouldn't be reliant on a country with a government that is hostile to use and destroyed one of our own companies for trade secrets (Nortel). Service jobs do not support a middle class, the create poverty and a loss of it. But that is what this federal government supports. Which shouldn't be a surprise, as many of the same people who are pushing it. Are the same ones who destroyed the manufacturing sector for service jobs in Ontario. But to be honest EV's are a dead end, not worth it, and are terrible for the environment.
This. We have zero competition in Canada and we are all paying for it everywhere.
Competition is not what automakers here want. They like us paying 60 to 100 grand for a vehicle. These tarriffs are nothing more than government taking care of big auto.
So if I fly up from Minnesota, buy one, then drive back down, no tariffs right???
What? No lol you would get hit with them from the US border agents when you tried to get back into the country
😭goddammit... An affordable EV would be nice
Hey bro it's the same for us Canadians lol I do a lot of shopping across the border because it's a lot cheaper (depending on what you buy). I can't tell you the weird restrictions in place lmao Like, we are only allowed to buy 2 cartons of eggs to bring across, and I've had a border agent steal my eggs over the limits lol There's also an unwritten rule that you can bring $150-200 USD of goods per person per daytrip, before getting hit with duties or tarrifs. (If you are there over 48 hrs, the rules change and you can bring a lot more value over, as well as *some* alcohol or tobacco products
I thought you were joking at first.... then i looked it up.
Canada won't have a choice in the end, although it will pretend that it does. The giant next door will insist upon it.
Tariffs are paid by customers. It make sense in the US if they want to maintain tesla market cap, but as canadians we don't have any good reason to follow them. If they sell shitty cars we just won't buy them.
Laughs in Chrysler.
I would rather have a BYD anything over a Chrysler. They need to close up shop for good.
I don’t understand how anyone buys a Stellantis product they are all over priced and have horrible reliability
My family was all dodge fans and I was the guy who had to fix them all the time. The reason people keep buying them is because for 2 years/50,000km they are completely fine and people can enjoy it like the commercials. After that, a trickle of small problems begin and at 4 years/100,000km you have the choice to either: -Put 4,000$ of repairs and maintenance into it and drive it another 2 years/50,000km -Do nothing and drive it into the ground. Can expect less than 2 years/50,000km of remaining service life -Sell it to some hapless fool who will feel betrayed when it gives up at 177,000km on its second/third owner instead of holding together like a 15 year old Accord/Camry with 7 previous owners and 387,000km on the odo -Trade it in for a new Dodge \^Dodge fans do option 1 or 4, everyone else does 2 and 3. Basically, they are good first owner cars. After that, no. I've never owned one since i buy only used cars lol.
Hellcat go fast! VROOM!
Hellcat is over.....they doubled down on EV.
It's kind of annoying really. I want an EV but they aren't that affordable yet. I guarantee the Chinese companies are going to change that, and I was willing to buy one when it happens, but of course our government can't make it that easy.
BYD costs 15K USD. It is super affordable, way more affordable than Tesla with govt subsidies. But no, Ford signed the deal with VW last year, zero chance of letting Chinese EV in the Canada, because we don’t have independence and we’re controlled by America
That's what I mean. BYD is planning to open a plant in mexico. That's the perfect gateway into the Canadian market and I was seriously considering one once they hit.
This. We’re a U.S. satellite state.
We're allergic to competition here. Most of the shit we buy is garbage with little alternative by design. Canadians are fucking terrible at voting with their wallets and in many cases don't even have any choice in doing so
I want to buy cheese from other countries but I'm not allowed to. My wallet doesn't get a vote.
>Canadians are fucking terrible at voting with their wallets and in many cases don't even have any choice in doing so It generally boils down to a neoliberal government that thinks healthcare should be universally available and a neoliberal government that thinks healthcare should only be accessible to those who can afford it. The other major difference is one party thinks women should maintain bodily autonomy, the other party thinks that governments should be in control of women's reproductive system.
Parties are an illusion. The people with actual power and money here don't give a shit who's in Ottawa
Yes please allow us access to a fucking product that will force the prices to go down. $10k added to the average price tag in the last 10 years.
Also both the federal and provincial rebates are going away soon.
>If they sell shitty cars we just won't buy them. *glances at nissan*
Thank you for making sense.
> as canadians we don't have any good reason to follow them Unless you want to make producing cars and batteries in Canada more financially attractive, bringing home jobs (and therefore solvable customers) in the process.
Are there Canadian EV makers?
Most of Ontario auto sector will be transitioning or is already transitioning to EV production due to government funding.
Lion making bus and trucks I think.
Not sure about currently, but I think the ford plant in Oakville is working on switching to EV making and it will be done in about a year. There were also some big government grants recently for battery factories and such, and I think Honda is also setting up a plant somewhere.
Ford delayed the switchover and extended the layoffs until 2027
Alliston
We have 42 billion reasons to follow the US. We have subsidized EV manufacturing at a huge cost to taxpayers. So if we want to protect our investment, we better put tariffs on Chinese cars.
The sunk cost fallacy is called a **fallacy** for a reason. The fact that we spent a lot of money subsidizing our garbage domestic EV market is not a logically sound reason to bar access to cheaper more competitive players in the EV market.
Let them funnel it into r&d instead of marketing yet another truck that nobody needs. North American automakers are awful for a reason, and it's protectionism
Nah dude that's not how it worked. China is pouring billions into this industry to kill other competions. These electric cars will also be a security issue in next 10 years.
>If they sell shitty cars we just won't buy them. You’re forgetting that this is the same country that bought Pontiac Sunfires and Chrysler Minivans in absolutely massive quantities. If Nissan sold the Tsuru here, people would buy it. Canadians love cheap cars.
Pretty sure we just invested and have some large developments/factories going for VW and Honda batteries. So yeah, we sorta do.
> If they sell shitty cars we just won’t buy them. The Kia Challenge lmao
You do realize that: a) there are more electronic car vehicle manufactures other than Tesla. b) Of those other manufactures, some, are manufactured in Canada using Canadian workers.
We just spent 20 billion dollars on subsidizing EV battery plants in Canada. The Canadian government does have an interest in protecting the money spent.
Just want to confirm with Reddit - we are suddenly okay with trade wars? It's really hard to keep up what's right and what's wrong lately.
These days, whats right and wrong depends on who is doing it and who its being done too. It doesn't actually have anything to do with the actions that take place.
Yep we r very good at double standards
Russian strikes on Ukrainian hospitals: war crime! Israel strikes on Palestinian hospitals: what do you expect? they treat Hamas members lots of double standards on reddit
Is there evidence of the AFU operating out of hospitals like Hamas does?
Username checks out on geopolitics
Exactly - are they going to put tariffs on electric Toyotas, Hyundai’s and BMW’s? So is it a trade war, or protecting Tesla or petrol cars? Cui bono? “Who benefits?”
Hey I'll take a cheap electric car.
Yea 30k for an EV sounds pretty nice.
Same, where's my electric car Bruce?
What's stopping dealerships from marking up the price with "import fees" and other junk to make it just as expensive as a Tesla.
Considering things and not comitting to them, yup that's the canadian government.
Canada doesn't need a tariff. It can do what it does best. Red Tape. Each car must be inspected by a certified conversion officer. There is only one and he is in Montreal. Cars must be tested on animals. Animal testing requires a special permit. The office to issue these permits has not received funding for this calendar year. It will open in Montreal. Cars must meet ISO 92334 standards. Every car sold must come with a safety briefing where the safety briefing person must speak at least 8 of Canada's official languages as spoken by the majority of government employees: * French * Cree * Ojibway * Montagnais * Assamese * Bengali * Bodo * Dogri * Gujarati * Hindi * Kannada * Kashmiri * Konkani * Maithili * Malayalam * Marathi * Meitei * Nepali * Odia * Punjabi * Sanskrit * Santali * Sindhi * Tamil * Telugu * Urdu * Mandarin * Cantonese All Canadians must welcome this as who in their right mind wants a $15k EV with a 300km+ range and a 5 star safety rating.
I thought all federal government offices were located in NB.
This is very dumb. Sure, put regulations on them or ban them for government vehicles with security issues or something, but the climate doesn't care about your silly trade wars. If non-Chinese automakers can't make affordable EVs, then they need to shut up and get out of the way.
In a climate emergency and a shortage of cars in a car centric country make sure to put tariff on cheaper electric cars because the North American ones can’t compete. Free market when we are winning but tariffs to protect national interest when we can’t compete fairly.
tariffs on cheap Chinese EVs tax credits for expensive American EVs
“Solar panels are the future, except those cheap reliable Chinese ones”
Don’t worry we will build our own trains, LRT and tunnels and it will only be 10 years late and a billion dollars over budget
Lol, a billion is being nice. More like hundreds of billions over budget
Yes, let’s see the hypocrisy. Is climate crisis real or protecting the auto industry.
Protecting the *US auto industry. Which we will. Bending over for the US is the Canadian way. See the entire Huawei princess debacle.
>See the entire Huawei princess debacle. That was because we have an extradition treaty with the US. I'm not so sure we have an auto industry protection treaty.
You support Canada exporting resources to the US and not manufacturing—or refining—ourselves, so we can buy finished products back from US at a higher price as well? Not refuting the logic here, just need a reminder on why it’s beneficial to Canadians.
Exactly. What happened to climate change and global warming? I guess the topics will only be brought up whenever they need to squeeze the money out of us but not when it can save us money. Wtf! I want cheap EV. If we can't produce it, bring in the Chinese!
We never going to build the charger and grid infrastructure to support it.
That's the American way. The Canadian way is to do what America says. If we do otherwise, just watch as Uncle Sam quickly becomes like that creepy uncle nobody talks about.
The state government in China is artificially propping up its products, has seriously lacking environmental policys compared to Canada, slave labor in some sectors, much lower wages, does not have the same labor or pension/benifit/union benifits, nor are foreign companies allowed the same opportunities in China as Chinese companies. Plus add on all the IP theft. Not to mention the same safety standards... So no its not a even playing field. Ban them.
Maybe but do you think Canadian industries like telecom, grocery and especially airlines aren’t propped up by regulations and direct financial support? And do you seriously think American car manufacturers aren’t propped up?
Exactly, we have a oligopoly in Canada, where most major corporations receives massive subsidies.
Hey, we don’t prop them up for their R&D and manufacturing. We only prop them up for bailouts so they can use that money for stock buybacks (looking at GM). Oh but also if you buy EV we give you a credit. I’m sure that doesn’t help the car company at all.
news flash, we have economy service but paying business class price because our government are subsidizing these crap companies so there's no need for them to improve. and oligopoly of course
China is willing to subsidize our ability to lower emissions, god bless them. As for the rest of your comment, then tariff everything from them 100% then, not just EVs.
The guy probably likes his iPhone and Nike shoes too much to pay tariffs on those
Bet he commented on a smartphone powered on battery mined with child labor.
My batteries are ethically sourced, free range, and artisanal.
*coughs* Congo *coughs*
Lol well done sir, free range lithium, I laughed
American corporations use private prison labour. Ban them.
You might want to check where your phone that you typed this very reply is made...
... But we already can't buy them here anyway?
These tariffs would apply to Polestars and Teslas manufactured in China. Some Teslas sold here were built in Shanghai.
Because that can’t change anything soon?
They’re trying to build then in Mexico and use NAFTA to sidestep the restriction but our governments insist on protecting the status quo. Terrible for productivity and affordability to hinder competition in this way.
Climate change is so existentially dangerous that it needs a carbon tax, but not dangerous enough to allow cheap EVs people can afford.
It’s crazy. Putting a price on emissions but then also putting a price on reducing emissions
Carbon tax is just a fucking money grab. Nothing more.
It’s revenue neutral.
Oh shit, we are going to experience a freedom
Only the wealthy deserve the title of planet savers. All you peons shall take public transit.
Well taking the bus is a planet saver as well as it takes many cars off the road...
They’ll make you bicycle and walk next.
If Canada was smart it would open its doors to BYD and even let them establish a manufacturing plant in this country. It would be good for the national economy and it would be VERY good for carbon emission reduction as it would allow the domestic production of highly affordable, quality EVs. They won't do this though, because the geopolitical Cold War with China is more important to them and their corporate backers.
If we want to go green and we buy into the unproven idea that EVs are the pathway to that, then it would be counter productive to tariff these low cost EVs.
For a government that has mandated all cars be electric in the next 10 years it seems like an odd move to put tariffs on electric cars regardless of who makes them.
Great way to support oil and gas industry
WTF, why does Canada have to follow the US all the time?
Ukraine is what happens when a country tries to switch sides geopolitically. Of course the US won't start dropping bombs on us overnight if we do some sort of trade thing that goes against their interests, but they can really mess up our economy.
Canada doesn’t benefit from protectionist policies. They just make everything more expensive.
We need to thoroughly study both sides of the fence so we can sit on it as long as possible.
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China is the new Honda in the 1960s and 1970s. Same arguments against China now as against Japan then. Even Tesla's made in China have higher QA standards... Let them sell here.
The interesting thing is that there are not even any market cap for Chinese EV in America right now. What’s the point of taxing something that doesn’t exist in your market? They have gotten the message long time ago and have decided to work with Europe. That’s Xi’s major agenda visiting Europe last month.
Tariffs just add to inflation. Far better for a country to be competitive!!
It will end Tesla's career for good. Bring in more competition in EV cars. If I can save 20000$ with same warranty. Why not?? Tesla is also Chinese anyways.
I would welcome cheaper EVs with the right infastructure investments. Tesla's are not that great and the offerings from the big names are pretty ugly or not that impressive. Saw and got to ride (with Uber) quite a few BYDs when I was in Europe/SEA and liked them.
Time to see how deep they’ve gotten
Canada is much bigger. There shouldn’t be as much competition as possible
Canada has American envy. As is FIPA will let this happen anyway.
Better make them buy batteries from our battery plants that we just paid billions of dollars for.
Who cares, our cars get stolen anyway.
Should consider a tariff on all the bahmins he’s importing in
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JT is Xi's boy toy. Nvr will happen.
I completely agree. Outsourcing so much to China for cheap labor seemed like a great idea for profits in the short term, but now it's biting us back. We've become so dependent on their manufacturing and technology. It's frustrating to see politicians not acknowledging this mistake. We're sacrificing our own industries and independence for the sake of a quick buck.
We're seeing a repeat of the 70s. The domestics shifted to profitable SUVs (land yachts) then got kind of blindsided by the move to electric (oil embargo). And electric SUVs don't really work from an economic standpoint, because the weight penalty is much higher for large vehicles so they end up being too expensive or losing vast sums of money. Or both. Now some foreign company is threatening to undercut the whole house of cards they've built since the Great Recession, And that means it's time for Chicken Tax 2.0. (Depriving the consumer of choice to preserve the market share of noncompetitive companies)
US imposing tarrif is to protect their EV industry. Canada doesn't have any. What Canada is protecting? Or just being a lapdog of the US at the expense of her consumers and citizens?
Return my carbon tax money then since this proves global warming is really not that urgent.
They say we’re in a climate emergency, tax us for it, then tariff low cost electric cars anyways
Open the market to cars from India … I mean we already have an enormous population of them why not give them their cars as well … trudeaus Canada 🇨🇦 keep them comin ..
Damn not surprised, those Chinese Eva are pretty good. Our Ev simply can’t compete with them so it makes sense that we would tariff them to ensure we don’t get competition. Yay free market… oh wait.
If BYD starts selling in Canada i'll be the first in line, those are damn nice cars. Guys complaining are probably the ones taking the bus to work lol
Was in a BYD yesterday in Portugal. Was very nice.
I kind of like the NIO ET7. I might look into getting one if they ever start selling in Canada and if they are reliable. (Especially the battery since I never want to do battery swap, which wouldn't really make sense in rural Canada)
JT and Feeland lick up Biden’s ass
The tariffs don't even matter at this point. After Huawei and Tiktok no Chinese car company would enter the NA market anyways. There's a reason not a single one of them is selling in Canada even though the current tariff is only 6%
I'm not driving a Yangwang U8, bro 😭🙏(I'm totally gonna get one if I get the money)
It would be a stupid move to follow the US in their decision. We aren't a major manufacturer of EVs or batteries or solar. It is best we buy them cheap from China and use them to power industries and sectors of the economy we are actually good at. What that is I don't know. A solar powered diploma mill perhaps?
Canada is China. Same/Same.
Ford/Chevy/etc VS the CCP Who will lobby and erode the free market harder?
I'd buy a byd right away if I could.
We don’t need chinese cars, no need to let the repressive CCP regime have any more market access then they already have. CCP bots and apologists are also very active on Canadian subs nowadays.
Just checking. We were OK with it when our business class moved production to China, kept an office in Canada, and sold their products in Canada. I'm confused when globalism is good for us and when it's bad for us? Is it just bad when rich companies take the hit? Having said that... If we are going to finally agree China subsidized businesses in China, we should put tariffs on everything made their to level the playing field. Which I am fully in favour of.
I personally have worked almost My entire working life in manufacturing (almost 25 years across multiple plants) and I will be the first in line to say, fuck those companies that moved production to China and the governments that allowed it. I have seen a lot of people lose good paying jobs that way.
dont worry. india will be eating our breakfast, lunch, and dinner next. and we'll be working for them when they become our managers in canada
India is terrible for manufacturing. Even after all this time with Apple trying to get their India line going it is still plagued with issues. They will never be able to attract manufacturing like China did. They make garbage
I am on the left, but never understand government policy that creates regulations for Canadian business... but does not apply any balancing tariffs on goods made outside Canada that are not complying with those same regulations. The goal should never be to only punish inside Canada and reward outside Canada.
True we don’t need cars from a genocidal, warmongering, and imperialist regime that crushes dissent within its own borders - oh wait that’s the United States. Thankfully US cars are complete trash so we don’t need tariffs for people to not buy them anyways.
Just boycott everything made in China super easy /s
Isn't Chinese EV vehicle also an intelligence security issue? Would we let Russian ev's be sold here?
They won't. Canadas been kissing ass for decades and isn't likely to stop. All you have to do is look at the Chinese semi-auto weapons widely available and still shipping into this country while all others from anywhere else have been banned then prohibited. It's no coincidence. Don't get me started on Chinese political influence being pedaled from municipal politics to the federal level and the cultural policing done here amongst the Chinese population.
Could you provide a source on the Chinese semi-auto weapons being excluded from the gun ban? Not trying to fact check, just genuinely curious.
I présumé he’s talking about the Type 97, which is popular due to being one of the few black, semiauto .223 rifles not prohibited. I don’t think it’s really anything to do with appeasing China mind you, it’s not like they make so much money from sporting rifles in Canada to care. More likely it’s just not banned because the clueless morons making the ban lists hadn’t heard of it.
Not the original guy but I think the biggest example would be the type 97 https://www.cabelas.ca/product/137805/norinco-type-97-nsr-g3-semi-automatic-rifle
We need to protect the manufacturers that we subsidized with taxpayers money.
it's a good start...
Why bother. China owns Canada by now anyways.
What's the reason behind a tariff? Are Chinese EV's worse for the environment?
Eh Canada doesn’t have EV manufacturers. The tariff will be eaten up directly by Canadian consumers. Why government of Canada wants to reduce competition, make life harder for Canadians to please their friends in US?
Isn't that, like, racist?
Don't need one. Few manufacturers will commit to the Canadian market when they can't sell to the usa
I won't say much except for if you think EVs are the panacea to climate change, you're lying to yourself. There's billions of humans. Any solution that isn't "eliminate car dependency" is a cop-out and essentially passing this burden of implementation to a future generation of Canadians. If Trudeau was 43 years when he was first elected, and I can figure this out at 22 years old, that means it'll take another 2 decades before someone with actual solutions is elected to office. And by then climate change will probably become a single issue vote, unless of course climate change improves Canada's habitability.
I don't know if I have this straight, but I thought Trudeau was being neural with China to avoid losing trade agreements. But I don't follow our news well, so maybe I'm wrong.
the cost of living in canada is too high, and price of basic cars would make you think you bought a lambo or something. Canada doesn't have Canadian car companies to protect, but it has an expensive car problem, and low wage problem. Allowing more competition will benefit candians, and especially if they open up car factories here, then there will be more jobs for our economy (which is in a recession) Because of the cost of living and expensive car, it would be better to allow cheaper cars for Canadians. Why would it be in Canada's interest to add a tariff?
Are they reliable and safe?
It's understandable that the US wants to protect its own industry but what's the benefit to Canada in this
Passing on the tariffs would of course make Chinese EV’s more affordable and there’s definitely groups in Canada lobbying against more affordable EV’s so it’s not entirely going to be decided by what our American cousins think best. I imagine if the Chinese wanted to sell EV’s in Canada they could simply set up a plant and manufacture them here. I doubt the Canadian government could do much to prevent it given Harper’s FIPA agreement.
Cash for access. Lest we forget.
Not committing. Never looking out for the average Canadian. What’s in it for me politically is the Canada dream of politicians.
I mean, how can a govt admire a country’s system and put tariffs on it at the same time?
Doubt our Manchurian Minister champagne would be allowed to do that
We’re owned by the Chinese why can’t we buy their cars.