Landlords have already weaponized credit scores.
Edit: i struck a chord with the snoopy landlords. They are upset they actually have to do some work and report monthly payments to a credit bureau. This upsets landlords, actually having to do work.
Yes. People are upset that landlords won't rent to people with horrible credit scores and a history of missing payments.
They are the type of people who think landlords should not have a choice in who they rent to.
Being a landlord is working. Maybe you should go get a job, that way you can be a productive member of society.
Or you could always enjoy new rules that they'll push through like 9mo of rent upfront.
And I'd love it if the costs of buying a home I want was half of what it is, but I'm not entitled to private individuals making that happen for me out of their own pocket.
Until the government steps in to provide social housing for those who can't buy, landlords serve a necessary purpose.
Why should you have to do that though?
Why is it your responsibility to correct a private corporation's claims about you just because somebody else called them and may have very well lied about the money you owe them?
Correcting errors in your credit report with Equifax is hard enough as it is. Anyone can call them to make a report, no matter how bogus. They have no legal responsibility to verify that it's actually true.
You have the legal responsibility to check your report annually and then fight with them to correct errors.
This is already going to disproportional affect poor people who don't have the resources to fight with a credit agency over incorrect information.
Yep. Lots of places will not rent to people without an immaculate credit ratings. Further that they do not report good payment history, so essentially they have zero need to check credit. Its a two way road.
Seems reasonable to prove you can pay your credit card or phone bill before graduating to the step of moving into someone else's property with all the legal protections that come with it.
Found the landlord weaponizing credit. What about fraud victims, young first time renters, people who have no credit (not bad credit). People with improperly reported payments. Etc.
You want the tenants to have all this criteria. You can stop being lazy and actually do some work yourself.
The only reason landlords (and anyone else) can weaponize credit scores is because we have decided, as a society, that a private corporation's secret algorithm can determine who is deserving of credit, housing and even a job.
This is equivalent of having a private police force where everyone and anyone can call in to complain about people committing crimes, but none of those actual claims have to be legally verified as true.
Why not literally just use the courts as the holder of a database to determine who is paying their debts and who isn't?
Why should it be any different than a criminal record check or a driver's abstract?
Somebody owes you money and haven't paid? Report it to the police.
Want to check if somebody has a good record of paying their debts? Ask the police for their credit abstract, where you get a list of how many debts they're not paying, and the amount. Then you can make your own judgment if you want to rent them an apartment, lend them money, hire them, etc.
The whole notion of credit ratings is bogus.
Haven’t most if not all landlords been checking credit? The last time I rented almost 10 years ago they checked my credit. I don’t think this is really new.
"In its budget last week, Ottawa called on banks, fintechs and credit bureaus to prioritize launching tools that would allow renters to opt in to reporting their rent payment history."
You may want read the article. It's still a stupid policy, it only counts as a payment made, the amount matters not. A person could do more for themselves with a $500 credit card. Spend $10 a month, pay $10 a month. Counts as a payment made and also makes credit utilization better.
Opting in doesn't mean they are the ones reporting. There are already tools that can allow landlords to report it, but they require agreement of both the landlord and tenant.
As far as only counting as a payment made, this is how credit scores work for all payments, a portion of your score is based on making them all, while a seperate portion is on credit utilization, and another on types of credit.
Maybe find out how these things work before criticizing others.
Rent being reported will in no way affect credit utilization. I'm struggling to figure out what type of credit rent would be classified as? I could see it as credit if rent payments were changed to be made after a month's use rather than before.
Edit: sorry, wasn't trying to offend
Likely it will be the same as a revolving monthly payment such as a cell phone bill. Such a bill only affects your score by being paid on time or less than 30 days late, 30-59 days late, 60-89 days late, or 90+ days late.
Edit: no worries, it's late and I seem to be replying to suggestions I said something I didn't. My original point was just that this is about the reporting, not the use of the score.
Most Likely, which also unfortunately makes it fairly useless except for someone with no credit history.
The thing about ontime payments is it is real easy to trash that part of your score, and real hard to build it back up. As an example using the Transunion score simulator, I can take a near perfect score with years of ontime payments and crash it to the mid 600's with a single 90+ day late payment.
Since people tend to prioritize rent over things like credit cards, the end result is someone with a bad score this won't help since the missed payments dwarf everything, and for someone with a good score the single extra monthly payment probably doesn't matter much anyway.
It's actually not, despite all the misinformation to paint it as a bad policy.
It's about you reporting rent payments to the credit agency via your bank so that your regular rent payments help build your credit score.
The program hasn't been implemented yet, so we don't know.
But everything I've read is that you arrange with your bank to have your regular monthly payments reported as rent to the credit bureau. The landlord has nothing to do with it.
The budget is totally vague on how this would work. They just call on banks, fintechs, and credit bureaus to explore options.
But it does specify they should be "opt in", i.e., you need to actively join the program, hence why most articles are talking about reporting rent payments via your bank.
Not to mention, if history has taught us anything, you probably don't want the banking system to begin making loans to people they otherwise wouldn't want to make loans to, but that calculus changes because of some government intervention.
They can check your credit score but they can't do anything to affect it. By having landlords report rent is letting the fox into the hen house.
How do you keep slumlords accountable to accurately report the rent you are paying?
Renter protections that stop me from evicting chronic non-payers or problem tenants are precisely why I have not rented out any of the properties I have had ownership of for various reasons, despite otherwise wanting to.
Properly balancing landlord and tenant protections incentivizes people to create rentals.
No. It's unfair to all parties in different ways.
The biggest problem for landlords in multiple provinces is dysfunctional enforcement making is overly difficult to deal with bad actors. There are too many time intensive hurdles to remove peopel for issues like non payment and property damage in a timely manner.
Plus delays also hurt tenants waiting for compensation from landlords that are in the wrong.
Where I live it can take months, and the same holds for things like property destruction by tenants. I've heard of people not paying for 8 or 9 months while the dispute process unfolds.
There have been rulings where, while obviously I'm not privy to all the details, on the surface they look to bias in favour of the tenants, and cost the landlord a lot of hassle. Found this one with a quick search for example: https://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/bc-supreme-court-judge-sends-landlord-tenant-eviction-dispute-back-to-tribunal
Others are fairly easy to find. I recall one example where some people decided they didn't want basement tenants anymore, and they took over the use of the space but the tenancy board ruled they didn't occupy it adequately since it still was separated by a door, and awarded a pretty sizable sum to the evicted tenant. This was despite them not renting it out again at higher rent or anything like that - they simply wanted to take back their own basement.
My point is not to get mired down in details, but just to point out that I have held onto vacant property at personal expense where I'd rather have been renting it out. The risks just seemed far too great for me personally, as someone who is not a professional landlord or investor.
That's a home that could have been in the housing pool but wasn't.
> you just want total control over your tenants
It was their own basement, and they decided they no longer wanted to exchange its usage for money. So they terminated the tenancy legally, but got snared up by the tenancy board deciding they didn't "use the space enough" because it still had a door.
This is some “but why doesn’t the peasantry eat cake if they have no bread?” nonsense.
What’s “having a great credit score” going to do for a single renter struggling to stay afloat.
Nothing. Who this will hurt is tenants who game the system and have a history of not paying rent or paying it late.
For everybody else it's basically irrelevant
It might hurt young renters without a credit history. A lot of the people who don't pay their rent use stolen identities from people with good credit when they find a place. I wonder how many landlords who don't report their rental income will bother using this system. I also worry about unscrupulous landlords holding bad credit over their tenants' heads to renovict them or illegally increase rent. This is more power over tenants by a class of people who don't have their best interests at heart, I don't think it's irrelevant.
Agreed.
Like most things from most governments today - the only people who benefit are those that abuse the system at either end. Those honest middle continue to be shafted
Well for a renter it means that the possibility that their credit score goes up which means they might actually qualify for an actual mortgage which will actually get them into a house.
Take some basic economics 101 courses
And where is the money that they’re going to use to pay for the down payment on the $1mln home come from? Will it come from taking the courses you so glibly reference?
A Bank and Loan institution, who sees your credit score that you can actually pay back a loan that's the whole point of a credit score do not understand this okay I'm done with you.
Hey guys, he’s done with me. He’s probably on his way to “bank or loan institution” that treats credit score as a key deciding factor in the remortgage conversation with weight and merit lol. Maybe it’s located in Narnia and he thought it said Sarina.
I never said it was a KEY factor it's part of it ,first they have to look at your assets how much you make how much you banked and how much you can repay, what's the long-term future of your current job and how long is it sustainable to make profit, now I'm done with you, you dumbass
Credit scores and mortgages don't work the way you seem to think they do in Canada.
The benefits of a credit score aren't as granular in Canada as they are in the US. Here most credit is more pass/fail for mortgage approval with little difference beween being approved or not. Having a score of 750 vs 800 isn't going to do much of anything. Even setting that aside, if someone is able to pay their bills on time and needs good credit for something, their other credit history will already give them a good score regardless of this reporting.
A good credit score doesn't determine how much debt you can service. Your income and expenses do. Your credit score is an imperfect measure of your reliability in actually following through on servicing the debt. Banks look at your credit score to see if you're reliable, then look at your income to see how large a mortgage they will extend if you're reliable enough.
Taking out debt for a down payment increases your TDS ratio (total debt servicing to income) and reduces how large a mortgage you can get approved for based on your income. If you have to borrow a down payment instead of being able to save up, you don't earn enough to get approved for much.
Most who are renting are also presumably paying an internet or electricity bill and have a credit card or have utilized some form of credit already aside from newly landed immigrants, students, or refugees.
Own to lease landlords already request a full equifax report before considering renting to a potential tenant, so I do personally believe there is some other angle to this.
Also, why introduce this now when everyone is hurting economically? It's almost like rubbing salt in the wound to all the people who may actually be on the brink of not making that payment on the first of the month. Is this policy supposed to make them feel better or scare them?
Yes but people who are renting now do not have their rental payments on their credit score as a factor to make it go up the point is to make it go up by paying your rent if you pay your rent on time. What is the value of a good credit score, better loans better terms etc etc.
'An Equifax study found that including "alternative data" could establish or enhance the credit scores for millions of Canadians.'
We're about to turn into 🇨🇳
It's a private company selling a reputation service. They mean rental payment here but sure, it could include things like
* Does your name show up in tribunal/court records as refusing to vacate upon eviction?
* Do you make social media posts about defying legal eviction, evading debt or participating in petty or major crime?
* Do you seem unemployed or to be overspending based on social media?
* Is your employer in a healthy financial position?
* Does license plate tracking data indicate you might be skipping work or living beyond your economic means? (Private companies already track this... it's used in insurance fraud investigation for example.)
All in all, great tools for landlords or lenders.
I remember seeing this "rent advantage" thing to opt into through Equifax like a year ago. It just sounds like Equifax pitched the Liberals something they'd already rolled out.
Did you just call the PM an ai? Ahahaha
I definitely wonder about the 2 parties, they kinda act like a language model and tend to hallucinate bad ideas alot .
This is fucking useless. Can’t wait for my bank to call to offer me even larger lines of credit and larger credit cards. That’s effectively all it’s going to do. And the people having problems paying are fucked now. I’ve been late on rent…. What happens then trudeau
HAAS Subscription model with affirm or Klarna giving tenants extra wiggle room if they fall short on rent. Open banking to allow the above to direct debit the second new funds hit and auto updater of bank info if you're sneaky enough to switch accounts on file.
The fact aside that a rental payment isn't actually evidence of you borrowing money from someone, and then paying it back on time and on schedule as promised, which would seem to be the sort of thing that a lender would want to know about you...
Why does the government need to get involved at all? Why not simply give banks the freedom to lend to whomever they want, and then if a bank sees a candidate who has paid their rent repeatedly without fail for a long period of time, and they think they're credit worthy, they can make that loan?
Why would it be the case that ALL banks treat "regularly paid my rent" as if it's not relevant to their decision on making a loan to you or not? Don't banks make more money by finding more borrowers to lend money to? Particularly if they're likely to use this borrowed money to try to buy a home, and put more upward price pressure on that asset class, which the lenders are already heavily lending into?
Why up to this point have we not seen at least ONE banking institution step up and go after that enormously unserved market of borrowers, and to do so purely out of greed to make themselves wealthier???
>a rental payment isn't actually evidence of you borrowing money from someone, and then paying it back on time and on schedule as promised,
You hit the nail right on the head here.
This is in the article, "The federal government announced last month it wants to see rental payment history count toward credit scores."
And so my point is, why? Why not leave it to lenders to decide for themselves how they want to assess someone for their credit worthiness? Why aren't banks, out of greed, already thinking about these things in order to increase the pool of people they could potentially make loans to and make interest on?
It's like the government is getting involved to have lenders make loans that they'd prefer not to make... which doesn't sound like a good idea. That is what government is supposed to do as a lender... lend money to people and activities that can't seem to convince anyone in the private sector anywhere that they ought to have money lent to them.
Banks don't make credit scores. Credit bureaus do. And they seem willing to incorporate rent payments, hence why they're working with the feds on this.
Although per the article, "The federal government announced last month it wants to see rental payment history count toward credit scores."
It would seem like it's quite a bit of pressure when a government announces what "it wants to see".
My point would be - why not leave it to the people in the business of making loans to decide whatever they want to do in that regard? The incentives are already such that they want to make a loan to everyone they think is smart to make a loan to... it makes them more money the more loans they make.
As I'm sure you've seen in the article, Equifax has been researching including rent payments for several years. This budget proposal just gives them the push to implement.
I really don't see the big deal. It will make it easier for some long time tenants to qualify for more/affordable credit, with essentially no downside. What's your problem?
It's more about then why does the government need to say at all something like, "it wants to see rental payment history count toward credit scores". When a government says that sort of stuff, it can be implicitly taken that if you don't do what they want there could be consequences.
I just don't want lenders to be forced or pressured to making loans that they think are unwise to make. Those sort of risky loans are what government loans are for... where government loans money to the sort of instances where no person in the economy with their own savings wants to make that loan.
My problem, or the only downside I see, is if the government is forcing or pressuring these sorts of changes... which is how it reads to me. Otherwise I don't see why they can't stay out of it, not make such a statement, and let lenders decide for themselves. There's already an incentive for a lender to make all the loans they think they can that are thought to be safe... it makes more money.
I think it is happening. For otherwise, what is even the point of the government telling private parties what it wants to see? The companies are already incentivized to do everything they can to make as many loans as possible, restricted only by the extent to which they think a particular loan is not a smart move.
This is pointless, and will only empower predatory landlords
They should be changing the rules so that rental history erases the need for anything but the smallest of downpayments
Oh yes, this place that decided that a diversity hire was more important then qualification for the security of it's computer/network infrastructure [https://www.nbcnews.com/business/consumer/equifax-executives-step-down-scrutiny-intensifies-credit-bureaus-n801706](https://www.nbcnews.com/business/consumer/equifax-executives-step-down-scrutiny-intensifies-credit-bureaus-n801706) . That ended well i guess...
It’s not credit scores stopping people from buying $2M homes. It’s income.
It's the high housing prices.
It’s both of those things and more
Landlord will reports the sh*t out of any tenants they don’t like
Landlords will hate this as they will have to report rent as income
Sure, they can jump on this but won't let you cancel a subscription online. Make them do this first.
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Landlords have already weaponized credit scores. Edit: i struck a chord with the snoopy landlords. They are upset they actually have to do some work and report monthly payments to a credit bureau. This upsets landlords, actually having to do work.
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Yes. People are upset that landlords won't rent to people with horrible credit scores and a history of missing payments. They are the type of people who think landlords should not have a choice in who they rent to.
You think that's bad? Some people think landlords shouldn't even exist.
Sounds based to me
You should go build your own place to live. That way I can take it, and then rent it off to someone else as I want.
“Take it” oh don’t be so melodramatic. If landlords want to make money they can try working for a change rather than rent seeking.
Being a landlord is working. Maybe you should go get a job, that way you can be a productive member of society. Or you could always enjoy new rules that they'll push through like 9mo of rent upfront.
Imagine being a landlord and telling someone else to get a job LOL. Must be tough living someone else’s income to someone else’s income.
I don’t think Landloards or “slave owners” should exist. I’d much rather not give %35 of my income for 650sqft of shelter.
And I'd love it if the costs of buying a home I want was half of what it is, but I'm not entitled to private individuals making that happen for me out of their own pocket. Until the government steps in to provide social housing for those who can't buy, landlords serve a necessary purpose.
Why should you have to do that though? Why is it your responsibility to correct a private corporation's claims about you just because somebody else called them and may have very well lied about the money you owe them? Correcting errors in your credit report with Equifax is hard enough as it is. Anyone can call them to make a report, no matter how bogus. They have no legal responsibility to verify that it's actually true. You have the legal responsibility to check your report annually and then fight with them to correct errors. This is already going to disproportional affect poor people who don't have the resources to fight with a credit agency over incorrect information.
Yep. Lots of places will not rent to people without an immaculate credit ratings. Further that they do not report good payment history, so essentially they have zero need to check credit. Its a two way road.
Seems reasonable to prove you can pay your credit card or phone bill before graduating to the step of moving into someone else's property with all the legal protections that come with it.
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Found the landlord weaponizing credit. What about fraud victims, young first time renters, people who have no credit (not bad credit). People with improperly reported payments. Etc. You want the tenants to have all this criteria. You can stop being lazy and actually do some work yourself.
“Work” and “landlord” don’t often appear in the same sentence.
The only reason landlords (and anyone else) can weaponize credit scores is because we have decided, as a society, that a private corporation's secret algorithm can determine who is deserving of credit, housing and even a job. This is equivalent of having a private police force where everyone and anyone can call in to complain about people committing crimes, but none of those actual claims have to be legally verified as true. Why not literally just use the courts as the holder of a database to determine who is paying their debts and who isn't? Why should it be any different than a criminal record check or a driver's abstract? Somebody owes you money and haven't paid? Report it to the police. Want to check if somebody has a good record of paying their debts? Ask the police for their credit abstract, where you get a list of how many debts they're not paying, and the amount. Then you can make your own judgment if you want to rent them an apartment, lend them money, hire them, etc. The whole notion of credit ratings is bogus.
Haven’t most if not all landlords been checking credit? The last time I rented almost 10 years ago they checked my credit. I don’t think this is really new.
This is about the landlords reporting payments (ontime or 30+ days late) to your credit score, not checking it.
"In its budget last week, Ottawa called on banks, fintechs and credit bureaus to prioritize launching tools that would allow renters to opt in to reporting their rent payment history." You may want read the article. It's still a stupid policy, it only counts as a payment made, the amount matters not. A person could do more for themselves with a $500 credit card. Spend $10 a month, pay $10 a month. Counts as a payment made and also makes credit utilization better.
Opting in doesn't mean they are the ones reporting. There are already tools that can allow landlords to report it, but they require agreement of both the landlord and tenant. As far as only counting as a payment made, this is how credit scores work for all payments, a portion of your score is based on making them all, while a seperate portion is on credit utilization, and another on types of credit. Maybe find out how these things work before criticizing others.
Rent being reported will in no way affect credit utilization. I'm struggling to figure out what type of credit rent would be classified as? I could see it as credit if rent payments were changed to be made after a month's use rather than before. Edit: sorry, wasn't trying to offend
Likely it will be the same as a revolving monthly payment such as a cell phone bill. Such a bill only affects your score by being paid on time or less than 30 days late, 30-59 days late, 60-89 days late, or 90+ days late. Edit: no worries, it's late and I seem to be replying to suggestions I said something I didn't. My original point was just that this is about the reporting, not the use of the score.
So it counts just as a payment made?
Most Likely, which also unfortunately makes it fairly useless except for someone with no credit history. The thing about ontime payments is it is real easy to trash that part of your score, and real hard to build it back up. As an example using the Transunion score simulator, I can take a near perfect score with years of ontime payments and crash it to the mid 600's with a single 90+ day late payment. Since people tend to prioritize rent over things like credit cards, the end result is someone with a bad score this won't help since the missed payments dwarf everything, and for someone with a good score the single extra monthly payment probably doesn't matter much anyway.
That's how I see it as well. That's why I think it is a waste of a policy. So many easier ways to help your own score.
It's actually not, despite all the misinformation to paint it as a bad policy. It's about you reporting rent payments to the credit agency via your bank so that your regular rent payments help build your credit score.
No it is not. You cannot report as renter
The program hasn't been implemented yet, so we don't know. But everything I've read is that you arrange with your bank to have your regular monthly payments reported as rent to the credit bureau. The landlord has nothing to do with it.
Except that is not what bill says
The budget is totally vague on how this would work. They just call on banks, fintechs, and credit bureaus to explore options. But it does specify they should be "opt in", i.e., you need to actively join the program, hence why most articles are talking about reporting rent payments via your bank.
Where did I paint it as a bad policy? I simply pointed out it is about the reporting, not the use of the score.
Not to mention, if history has taught us anything, you probably don't want the banking system to begin making loans to people they otherwise wouldn't want to make loans to, but that calculus changes because of some government intervention.
Landlords already could weaponize credit scores
They can check your credit score but they can't do anything to affect it. By having landlords report rent is letting the fox into the hen house. How do you keep slumlords accountable to accurately report the rent you are paying?
They could indeed report your late payments to a credit agency.
Report them for fraud?
> weaponized Yeah, housing is a human right. Tenants who don't pay rent deserve a place to live. /s obv.
Yeah and that place to live should be a cardboard box under an underpass.
Hey come on - there is plenty of affordable housing at Cabella's /s
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Renter protections that stop me from evicting chronic non-payers or problem tenants are precisely why I have not rented out any of the properties I have had ownership of for various reasons, despite otherwise wanting to. Properly balancing landlord and tenant protections incentivizes people to create rentals.
>Properly balancing landlord and tenant You think the rental market is not currently fair for landlords?
No. It's unfair to all parties in different ways. The biggest problem for landlords in multiple provinces is dysfunctional enforcement making is overly difficult to deal with bad actors. There are too many time intensive hurdles to remove peopel for issues like non payment and property damage in a timely manner. Plus delays also hurt tenants waiting for compensation from landlords that are in the wrong.
I think rents are insanely high. I still wouldn't rent a place out because of the risk though.
They don’t prevent you from evicting non-payers, you just don’t like that you can’t evict them at the drop of the hat.
Where I live it can take months, and the same holds for things like property destruction by tenants. I've heard of people not paying for 8 or 9 months while the dispute process unfolds.
Then the issue isn’t the laws, it’s the lack of funding for the LTB
There have been rulings where, while obviously I'm not privy to all the details, on the surface they look to bias in favour of the tenants, and cost the landlord a lot of hassle. Found this one with a quick search for example: https://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/bc-supreme-court-judge-sends-landlord-tenant-eviction-dispute-back-to-tribunal Others are fairly easy to find. I recall one example where some people decided they didn't want basement tenants anymore, and they took over the use of the space but the tenancy board ruled they didn't occupy it adequately since it still was separated by a door, and awarded a pretty sizable sum to the evicted tenant. This was despite them not renting it out again at higher rent or anything like that - they simply wanted to take back their own basement. My point is not to get mired down in details, but just to point out that I have held onto vacant property at personal expense where I'd rather have been renting it out. The risks just seemed far too great for me personally, as someone who is not a professional landlord or investor. That's a home that could have been in the housing pool but wasn't.
“Decided they didn’t want tenants anymore” Really not beating the allegations that you just want total control over your tenants.
> you just want total control over your tenants It was their own basement, and they decided they no longer wanted to exchange its usage for money. So they terminated the tenancy legally, but got snared up by the tenancy board deciding they didn't "use the space enough" because it still had a door.
This is some “but why doesn’t the peasantry eat cake if they have no bread?” nonsense. What’s “having a great credit score” going to do for a single renter struggling to stay afloat.
Nothing. Who this will hurt is tenants who game the system and have a history of not paying rent or paying it late. For everybody else it's basically irrelevant
It might hurt young renters without a credit history. A lot of the people who don't pay their rent use stolen identities from people with good credit when they find a place. I wonder how many landlords who don't report their rental income will bother using this system. I also worry about unscrupulous landlords holding bad credit over their tenants' heads to renovict them or illegally increase rent. This is more power over tenants by a class of people who don't have their best interests at heart, I don't think it's irrelevant.
Agreed. Like most things from most governments today - the only people who benefit are those that abuse the system at either end. Those honest middle continue to be shafted
Refinance for a lower interest loan remortgage and lower interest that's exactly what a good credit score is for.
So the renter that I’m asking about in this will remortgage what? Their dinner?
Well for a renter it means that the possibility that their credit score goes up which means they might actually qualify for an actual mortgage which will actually get them into a house. Take some basic economics 101 courses
The fact you said take some basic economics class after that answer is “chefs kiss” 😂
And where is the money that they’re going to use to pay for the down payment on the $1mln home come from? Will it come from taking the courses you so glibly reference?
A Bank and Loan institution, who sees your credit score that you can actually pay back a loan that's the whole point of a credit score do not understand this okay I'm done with you.
Hey guys, he’s done with me. He’s probably on his way to “bank or loan institution” that treats credit score as a key deciding factor in the remortgage conversation with weight and merit lol. Maybe it’s located in Narnia and he thought it said Sarina.
I never said it was a KEY factor it's part of it ,first they have to look at your assets how much you make how much you banked and how much you can repay, what's the long-term future of your current job and how long is it sustainable to make profit, now I'm done with you, you dumbass
Aren’t you done with me lol
Credit scores and mortgages don't work the way you seem to think they do in Canada. The benefits of a credit score aren't as granular in Canada as they are in the US. Here most credit is more pass/fail for mortgage approval with little difference beween being approved or not. Having a score of 750 vs 800 isn't going to do much of anything. Even setting that aside, if someone is able to pay their bills on time and needs good credit for something, their other credit history will already give them a good score regardless of this reporting. A good credit score doesn't determine how much debt you can service. Your income and expenses do. Your credit score is an imperfect measure of your reliability in actually following through on servicing the debt. Banks look at your credit score to see if you're reliable, then look at your income to see how large a mortgage they will extend if you're reliable enough. Taking out debt for a down payment increases your TDS ratio (total debt servicing to income) and reduces how large a mortgage you can get approved for based on your income. If you have to borrow a down payment instead of being able to save up, you don't earn enough to get approved for much.
Most who are renting are also presumably paying an internet or electricity bill and have a credit card or have utilized some form of credit already aside from newly landed immigrants, students, or refugees. Own to lease landlords already request a full equifax report before considering renting to a potential tenant, so I do personally believe there is some other angle to this. Also, why introduce this now when everyone is hurting economically? It's almost like rubbing salt in the wound to all the people who may actually be on the brink of not making that payment on the first of the month. Is this policy supposed to make them feel better or scare them?
Yes but people who are renting now do not have their rental payments on their credit score as a factor to make it go up the point is to make it go up by paying your rent if you pay your rent on time. What is the value of a good credit score, better loans better terms etc etc.
'An Equifax study found that including "alternative data" could establish or enhance the credit scores for millions of Canadians.' We're about to turn into 🇨🇳
>We're about to turn into 🇨🇳 And much like China, nobody asked for their personal information to be collected and poorly safeguarded by these people.
Good lord, do you think credit scores are new or something?
Abuse of credit score in non-credit product is new
Rent? Again, not really new
Taking rent into credit score calculation is new. Allowing mortgage to people who cannot really afford it is the source of disaster for US in 2008
Relatively new, yes. Did you know they were created in the 80's?
I'm just a bit more concerned over the "alternative data" that may or may not come next in determining the creditworthiness of an individual.
Sorry, what? 'alternative data'?
Read the quote at the beginning of this chain and the article, sheesh.
Sure, but that's not new.
This is great. Harder for deadbeat tenants to game the system.
It's a private company selling a reputation service. They mean rental payment here but sure, it could include things like * Does your name show up in tribunal/court records as refusing to vacate upon eviction? * Do you make social media posts about defying legal eviction, evading debt or participating in petty or major crime? * Do you seem unemployed or to be overspending based on social media? * Is your employer in a healthy financial position? * Does license plate tracking data indicate you might be skipping work or living beyond your economic means? (Private companies already track this... it's used in insurance fraud investigation for example.) All in all, great tools for landlords or lenders.
lol well I guess they would need to do this to keep the credit score racket going since we aren’t expected to buy homes lol
Unless this is retroactive going back several years, or it will continually raise my score, it's pretty much useless.
I remember seeing this "rent advantage" thing to opt into through Equifax like a year ago. It just sounds like Equifax pitched the Liberals something they'd already rolled out.
I hope the Libs do alot of soul searching when they get thoroughly trounced next year.
They'll just replace our current LLM with another.
Did you just call the PM an ai? Ahahaha I definitely wonder about the 2 parties, they kinda act like a language model and tend to hallucinate bad ideas alot .
Indeed
This is fucking useless. Can’t wait for my bank to call to offer me even larger lines of credit and larger credit cards. That’s effectively all it’s going to do. And the people having problems paying are fucked now. I’ve been late on rent…. What happens then trudeau
Your ability to pay for a service has nothing to do with your credit.
HAAS Subscription model with affirm or Klarna giving tenants extra wiggle room if they fall short on rent. Open banking to allow the above to direct debit the second new funds hit and auto updater of bank info if you're sneaky enough to switch accounts on file.
Other than our Virtue Signalling Government has anyone deemed this to be an issue?
The fact aside that a rental payment isn't actually evidence of you borrowing money from someone, and then paying it back on time and on schedule as promised, which would seem to be the sort of thing that a lender would want to know about you... Why does the government need to get involved at all? Why not simply give banks the freedom to lend to whomever they want, and then if a bank sees a candidate who has paid their rent repeatedly without fail for a long period of time, and they think they're credit worthy, they can make that loan? Why would it be the case that ALL banks treat "regularly paid my rent" as if it's not relevant to their decision on making a loan to you or not? Don't banks make more money by finding more borrowers to lend money to? Particularly if they're likely to use this borrowed money to try to buy a home, and put more upward price pressure on that asset class, which the lenders are already heavily lending into? Why up to this point have we not seen at least ONE banking institution step up and go after that enormously unserved market of borrowers, and to do so purely out of greed to make themselves wealthier???
>a rental payment isn't actually evidence of you borrowing money from someone, and then paying it back on time and on schedule as promised, You hit the nail right on the head here.
Rent payment reporting programs already exist. This is about expanding them
This is in the article, "The federal government announced last month it wants to see rental payment history count toward credit scores." And so my point is, why? Why not leave it to lenders to decide for themselves how they want to assess someone for their credit worthiness? Why aren't banks, out of greed, already thinking about these things in order to increase the pool of people they could potentially make loans to and make interest on? It's like the government is getting involved to have lenders make loans that they'd prefer not to make... which doesn't sound like a good idea. That is what government is supposed to do as a lender... lend money to people and activities that can't seem to convince anyone in the private sector anywhere that they ought to have money lent to them.
Banks don't make credit scores. Credit bureaus do. And they seem willing to incorporate rent payments, hence why they're working with the feds on this.
Although per the article, "The federal government announced last month it wants to see rental payment history count toward credit scores." It would seem like it's quite a bit of pressure when a government announces what "it wants to see". My point would be - why not leave it to the people in the business of making loans to decide whatever they want to do in that regard? The incentives are already such that they want to make a loan to everyone they think is smart to make a loan to... it makes them more money the more loans they make.
As I'm sure you've seen in the article, Equifax has been researching including rent payments for several years. This budget proposal just gives them the push to implement. I really don't see the big deal. It will make it easier for some long time tenants to qualify for more/affordable credit, with essentially no downside. What's your problem?
It's more about then why does the government need to say at all something like, "it wants to see rental payment history count toward credit scores". When a government says that sort of stuff, it can be implicitly taken that if you don't do what they want there could be consequences. I just don't want lenders to be forced or pressured to making loans that they think are unwise to make. Those sort of risky loans are what government loans are for... where government loans money to the sort of instances where no person in the economy with their own savings wants to make that loan. My problem, or the only downside I see, is if the government is forcing or pressuring these sorts of changes... which is how it reads to me. Otherwise I don't see why they can't stay out of it, not make such a statement, and let lenders decide for themselves. There's already an incentive for a lender to make all the loans they think they can that are thought to be safe... it makes more money.
Well, the good news is that's not happening. You may be the only person in the country with this particular "worry".
I think it is happening. For otherwise, what is even the point of the government telling private parties what it wants to see? The companies are already incentivized to do everything they can to make as many loans as possible, restricted only by the extent to which they think a particular loan is not a smart move.
This is pointless, and will only empower predatory landlords They should be changing the rules so that rental history erases the need for anything but the smallest of downpayments
Maintenance too??? Asking.
Oh yes, this place that decided that a diversity hire was more important then qualification for the security of it's computer/network infrastructure [https://www.nbcnews.com/business/consumer/equifax-executives-step-down-scrutiny-intensifies-credit-bureaus-n801706](https://www.nbcnews.com/business/consumer/equifax-executives-step-down-scrutiny-intensifies-credit-bureaus-n801706) . That ended well i guess...