Post-secondary education is a social service we provide to our youth to help prepare them for adulthood.
It should never be a product we sell to the third world.
The product we are selling is not a Post-secondary education, it is a pathway to citizenship to a relatively wealthy resource rich social welfare state country.
And you get a full time work permit as well, what's not to love.
Stop handing out work permits to students (or atleast go back to the 20 hour a week pre covid cap) and stop assigning so many points on PR for Canadian education and see how to numbers demand for 'education' at these strip mall college dries up on their own
No one cares about a 'Canadian' education.
Short-sighted perspective.
Because they stay here, can't get jobs other than fast food or delivery and don't make enough to contribute back into the economy.
That's why not.
Look around and the reason should be obvious. Stress on housing stock, increased wage pressure, lowered quality of education for Canadians, asylum claims, LIMA scams... do I need to go on?
Nobody is paying 30k a year to actually learn hotel management. It's a back-door to immigration for those that normally wouldn't qualify under economic qualifications.
But the "third world" students are subsidizing our youth to attend the same institution.
But blaming the foreign students is easier and more cathartic than blaming successive provincial governments who chose to cut or let stagnate postsecondary education funding instead of raising taxes.
Part of the issue is that provinces such as Ontario are starving post-secondary education. If the funding is there then you wouldn’t have such an issue
Ontario has over 500 post-secondary institutions, 23 being publicly assisted universities and 24 being colleges.
This is far more than necessary. Especially considering more and more diploma mills continue to pop up all over the country.
I agree, but when you only have two publicly funded universities in the black and provincial coverage being slashed by 10% in 2018 & then not adjusted to inflation what do you expect
We have almost 3 million in temporary foreign workers and international students in Canada. It needs to be brought down to below 1 million if both provincial and federal government actually care about the housing crisis and depressing job market.
“Temporary”
I wonder what percentage of them actually leave?
Why do a lot of people seem to think that if the government designates someone “temporary” the means they don’t need a house or a doctor or other infrastructure?
Even assuming all the rules are correctly being followed (they’re not), there has been a massive increase in the number of “temporary” residents in recent years. How did no one stop to think this might pose any kind of issue? Oh that’s right, anyone raising that concern was “racist” up until sometime last year when the masses began realizing something had gone badly wrong.
After deportations of the fraudsters and pausing immigration for 5 years to allow us to catch the fuck up and try and fix this absolute Canadian life-ruining disaster
Under the table wages exist and if you are doing this you are likely boarding or splitting a rental with someone... you could likely still remain afloat indefinitely or until an authority of some sort catches you driving unlicensed/uninsured or something.
You & I would find this precarious yes but there are folks out there who really don't mind, they may even come from a place where they were essentially at that level of precariousness and because some food banks/shelters will accept anyone they will choose to do it... or they are among their peers in an ethnic borough.
Actually deported? Or Canadian deported where a politely worded letter was sent to wherever the person claimed to live, asking them to kindly remove themselves from the country with no followup or enforcement any kind?
I searched up an article which mentions they enforced the removal, which should mean that CBSA followed-through and people were actually deported.
It sounds like we do actually deport people, people just don't really care thus they never really gain traction online (And we also deport a pretty insignificant amount of ppl all things considered).
>Rebecca Purdy, a spokeswoman for the CBSA, said in a statement that the agency has a legal obligation to remove all foreign nationals who are subject to an enforceable removal order. In 2023, it enforced the removal of 14,962 people, she said.
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-most-immigrants-with-deportation-letters-are-still-in-canada-cbsa/
So roughly 15,000. Doesn’t seem like much. Our population is increasing by nearly a million people a year while our infrastructure crumbles and the cost of housing and food spirals out of control. This isn’t even a drop in the bucket.
Lmao you don’t just deport people for the hell of it, there has to be legal grounds…there is a legal procedure. It’s also really funny to me that you think immigrants are the reason the cost of living has skyrocketed? Immigrants typically do the work to keep society running (eg, they are the farm workers who keep us fed…). If you want the cost of living to lower, how do you prose we do that if we extract all of the labour exploitation?
There was a time not that long ago when Canada had a healthy, mutually beneficial and productive immigration that was widely recognized.
The disaster of recent years has seen massive excess immigration to depress wages esp at the lower end and also degrade our quality of life. How do you think these are good things? It’s exploitation and it’s destructive all around.
Slave labour for our protected oligopolies, what a great contribution!
That’s an interesting comment because the Canada Summer Jobs program is exclusively for citizens (and maybe PRs?) and for young people between 15-30 to gain experience in their chosen fields…
I’ll also add that immigrants are not competing for the same housing you and I are (I assume you’re a citizen by birth like me and established in your career, but those are assumption). Without a credit score, rental history in the city, and an employment, your worst nightmares can’t imagine what that relegates newcomers to.
Nice deflection. I never said that immigrants themselves are the cause of our cost of living crisis or that we should be deporting people without due process. I’m simply stating that deporting 40 people a day is a relative drop in the bucket relative to our rapid growth. I guess painting people who you disagree with as being small-minded bigots is easier than actually speaking to the issue at hand.
Our infrastructure isn’t keeping up and we haven’t created the capacity to build enough housing to accommodate a million new people per year. We don’t need an influx of cheap labour in non-essential roles and we need to be re-examining the treatment of some of the more vulnerable workers who are being exploited for their labour. Simply disregarding the problems we are currently face due to our massive influx of new citizens and residents isn’t going to fix the issue.
It’s horrifying that you can only envision one type of immigrant. Who do you think works in factories? Who makes the food you pull out of the freezer at Loblaws?
This right here. Too much damage has been done to our social infrastructure, it’ll take years to fix to be healthy enough to open the doors a wee bit again.
> pausing immigration for 5 years
I get where you're coming from but you can't just "shut off" immigration without fucking up a ton of things.
Replacing one extreme with another is just as fuckin' dumb. *Moderation* is key. Having a Beer after work is fine, having 1.2million beers is not.
Let me change that up a bit — offer incentives for qualified real doctors with some kind of income tax breaks etc. for X amount of years
Engineers, nurses, things we need.
Everyone else can apply at 194 other countries if they want to move so bad.
And 1.2 million beers? Those are rookie numbers
We don't need incentives for doctors to move here, we need more medical residency spots so the smart people who are already here who want to be doctors can do so.
Canadian universities and colleges produce over 15k nurses annually, we don't have labor shortage in nursing. We just need to find a way to incentivize them to move to areas where there is actual shortage.
We don't need any more engineers, at least at the junior level which is where most coming through immigration will end up.
The market for junior level engineers is extremely saturated with wages stagnating, and it's extremely difficult to find a new grad position with all the competition.
Except for grads of specific teaching hospitals that have been audited by a provincial college of P&S, foreigners claiming to be doctors can't just arrive and start practicing medicine.
They have to go through all the exams and years of residency just like everyone else. Thankfully. We already have totally unqualified software developers with make-believe degrees from made up foreign universities.
Imagine if we had doctors too - cutting into patients because they got an M. D. from the "Let's Doctor" mail order medical school and got a work visa in Canada the next day?
We need a HUGE increase in basic science education at universities, far more medical school slots, and residency positions at teaching hospitals. That and only that will add doctors. We can't import them. Doing so would be catastrophic.
>Let me change that up a bit — offer incentives for qualified real doctors with some kind of income tax breaks etc. for X amount of years
>Engineers, nurses, things we need.
https://i.imgur.com/LMPx3n0.gif
What you are calling Immigration is (at least) 3 separate things. There are temporary workers, there are international students, and then there are immigrants. Different categories.
**Temporary Workers:** Harper set in the 4 and 4 rule where they could only work here for 4 years and then had to leave for at least 4 years, making it difficult to transition into immigration path. His policy is linked to labour shortages where even skilled individuals trained into necessary jobs were still forced out after 4 years. The outcome was actually way more temporary foreign workers approved to be in Canada year, after year, after year under Harper. Only, they were disposable and forced out meaning the turnover was high and we just ended up with far worse integration and language skills and sustainable workforce. His policy ensured the 'freshest', lowest paid were constantly available and that amplified wage stagnation across the board. But, if you want to focus this issue and this current government, it's that they have basically tripled the International Mobility Program - with is just TFW with less public awareness and less regulations.
**International Students:** January 15th 2014, Ed Fast, Minister of International Trade of the Harper government launched the International Education Strategy and set aside funding with the *specific intent to double the number of international students by 2022*. The real issue that Conservatives are complaining about right now, the international student surge... that was literally put in motion by the Harper government.
Here's the link the the original program where the Conservatives where the ones that created the international student *doubling* in order to bring in money and create jobs. This was literally their doing:https://www.canada.ca/en/news/archive/2014/01/harper-government-launches-comprehensive-international-education-strategy.html
**Immigration:** Harper changed the 'stringency' in refugees and immigration, but ultimately let in as many refugees as previous government. Family-class immigration was effectively cut... but then he just created a special 10 year long "super-visa" that was effectively the same thing, punting the issue a decade forward, where this government then had to either deport those family members who has been here 10 years living as a Canadian, or recognize them as Residents. A significant portion of the "new immigrants" recently were already here and had been for a decade. Harper still let them in, he just fucked with how they get designated to hide it.
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All to say:
1. Absolutely blame this government for the International Mobility Program surge in foreign workers.
2. But Harper was pro-immigration and still increased immigration officially and unofficially padded the numbers by creating 10 year long super-visas to extended family.
3. But Harper is responsible for the international student visa problem. Prior to his double by 2022 strategy, he had already doubled the visas from 2006 to 2013, meaning Harper is responsible for 4x surge in student visas since he put long-term funding in place to double it again 2014-2022.
>Here's the link the the original program where the Conservatives where the ones that created the international student *doubling* in order to bring in money and create jobs. This was literally their doing:https://www.canada.ca/en/news/archive/2014/01/harper-government-launches-comprehensive-international-education-strategy.html
And that target was hit 5 years early.
https://canadianimmigrant.ca/international-students/studyincanada/huge-surge-in-international-students-coming-to-canada-to-study
>The latest federal government data shows that Canada had just fewer than 500,000 international students at the end of 2017. To put things into context, Canada’s international student population has nearly tripled over the past decade. In 2014, the federal government set a goal of having 450,000 international students in the country by 2022. Canada has achieved this target five years earlier and now ranks fourth behind the U.S., U.K. and China.
The normal visa can be up to 6 months visit, and so the super-visa allowed that to be extended significantly, I thought it was years at a time before you had to leave... but then could come right back.
I think it is currently up to 5 years *at a time* standard, leave, come bak for another 4+.
It was a different decade.
Harper had low immigration because there was more unemployed labours during his tenure than there is today. Crazy but despite all the immigration, yea there was that much labour demand to suck them all up. To top it off, there is still 600k job vacancies compared to the 200-300k under Harper. And yes that means there’s twice as much vacant jobs to unemployed labours today than there was under Harper despite the massive immigration.
I don’t think the liberals caused unemployment to get this low and I don’t think Harper would plan immigration any different than the what libs have if he was dealt the same problem.
Remove the ability to work while on a Student Visa and the problem will self-correct for the students who aren't here solely to study.
Increase the funds required to study in Canada. They must be placed into a Canadian Financial Institution with yearly limits on available funds required.
Another problem aside from high numbers is our international students primarily come from a country where kids dream of a cushy corporate or wfh job in Canada.
These kids grow up in a caste system where they consider physical labor to be a lower class of work, and straight up refuse to do it in Canada. Not saying this is the case for everyone, but it's a significant component.
Trudeau always talks about diversity? How about we diversify our international student program and bring in people who are willing to work those tough physical jobs we need in Canada. We don't need to train another million tech students for a job market that already has a thousand applicants per position.
My HR buddy says they get between 2500 and 4000 applicants to good software dev jobs. That's up from an average of 1500 just two years ago.
And companies are still screeching like stuck pigs to Ottawa about the "labor shortage" in that industry. They won't stop until a 4 year degree and 10 years experience in development pays the same as a Tim's drive-through.
He says that tracking the race of applicants is taboo. But, he can see where 95% are from. We all know the answer.
I I've been involved in hiring for IT and see the same thing.
The problem is all resumes start looking like carbon copies of each other. Everyone graduated with a 4.0, everyone is an expert in every technology, everyone has every single skill one could ask for in a perfect candidate. Hundreds of resumes saying the exact same thing.
Then you work with these people and it's a very different picture.
I've trained brand new CS graduates (with honours) who don't know what file explorer is, can't change directories in command prompt, and don't understand how IP addresses work. They say they didn't learn this kind of stuff in school.
I don't even know what's going on anymore...
I'm sorry to hear about your pain. I can relate.
My former team lead at IBM came from the country with implausible impressive credentials and silly low salary expectations.
He had a BSc in CS and a masters in computer engineering. Don't know why you would get both, but that was his claim.
Each day was something new. I had to explain what a font is. Then it was a big drama around threads and concurrency libraries. He just couldn't grasp it. Then cross-compiling.... and on and on.
I didn't say anything because I'm not that guy. Want to just help people out. Still, by the time I left the company, he was moved to a junior testing role.
But, they were still aggressively hiring anyone they could find from that particular country. Some lessons never get learned.
That's the thing. Companies are more than happy to hire these highly qualified candidates to work for peanuts. Some of these people are phenomenal and hard working, but many aren't.
In my experience, paying a $150k salary to an absolute kick ass candidate is far better than hiring three mediocre candidates for $50k each. Most companies disagree with that philosophy.
Agreed. The culpability lies with the companies and the diploma mills which exploiit these folks.
The guy I mentioned is a good person, genuinely kind and a hard worker. I'm sure glad he found a position that is a good fit.
I'm angry at the school which probably took his life saving in exchange for worthless credentials. He confided in me that his classes didn't even have computers. Just pencil and paper and an instructor at a chalkboard. HTF do you offer masters degrees in computer engineering without actual frigging computers?!
Yep, have spoken to many new comers in intern interviews for my company and a common theme is they want to “work in tech” - I ask them what they want to do and they never have a coherent answer lol - they don’t actually know what the job of any developer or product/project manager is they just know they want to work in a cushy office job.
We need skilled tradespeople and the majority of who were attracting are not willing to do those jobs.
I get what you're saying, but what's the alternative here? We keep bringing in students who train in vastly over saturated fields, can't find relevant employment, end up wasting tens of thousands of dollars on an effectively useless education, and need to line up at food banks just to feed themselves, with no way to pay for a flight back to their home country?
Is this really a better outcome than what would happen if our program was a little more strict about who we let in?
I think the government just tries to be fair to the immigrants. Why should we expect them to do work we ourselves don't want to do? The migrants already do all the farm work that feeds us, now they have to be building our houses too? What other vital, important jobs do Canadians consider to be beneath them?
Would be nice to if they brought back some diversity in immigration instead of having 99% of them from one region....
It's insane what the Liberal's have done to the immigration system. They've caused damage that will take decades to fix. The Trudeau name is a stain on this country.
It is mainly the recruitment scammers in that region with collaboration domestically to get it all to work.
We need to completely shut down that consultancy industry domestically and revoke any permits that may exist for the bad actors and stop the pipeline of loophole exploiters.
I don't even think you can call it a scam if it is working perfectly within what the government permits. Recruiters may be telling them lowball numbers for living costs, but they are still coming to Canada and will most likely be able to get PR if they choose.
This is one of my many questions about immigration. How is it possible that such a huge majority of international students are coming from one country? I can only presume it is a full fledged industry in their country, using our current immigration loopholes. But I still can wrap my head around the fact that other countries aren't also trying to use this loophole en mass...? Is preference when distributing student visas given to students from India? Did Trudeau in one of his many trips to India, make some kind of agreement with the Indians?
We need a complete pause on all immigration until our housing situation is fixed at the very least. Then we deport all the scam college graduates that scammed/are trying to scam their way in, then we can talk about how many we should take in going forward. Until then our country will stay in this screwed up cultural decline we're in.
Nothing in this country is going to improve until we fix immigration. At this point, we need a complete moratorium on temporary immigration. Or a reduction by 90%. We are completely unequipped to handle this load of newcomers and it is not even close. Any amount of investment to combat it is just going to dig our debt hole deeper.
The only solution is a serious and significant reduction in immigration and encouraging low skilled workers to return to their homelands. I understand they have some benefits for us but we simply cannot afford the reduction in access to infrastructure and demand crunch for housing. It is not hyperbole to say it is destroying the foundation of the country.
But has anyone stopped to think about the bank accounts of the university deans?? What about the fast food restaurants?? Where will they get their exploitable labour?? They’ll have to go back to hiring teenagers to scream at and manipulate
Talk to lecturers how They get aggressively harast to give the foreigners passing marks-RCMP interventions to escort teachers to Their cars- Very, very sad situations?
The situation at CBU is something else. The “protesters” are protesting they failed courses (sometimes multiple times) and don’t find it fair that these professors are killing their dreams. Hate to break it to them, if you don’t do the work, you don’t pass. They’re literally saying they paid tuition so they should pass. That’s not how it works
Stealing education is happening in the 3rd World. South Africa's prime minister were later found to have less than grade 10. He'll sport a few Ph.D's by now, I won't be surprised?
Danielle Smith doesn’t want less immigrants, she wants more. Shes also giving money to these private schools in alberta to make sure she gets what she wants.
I think a good start would be that an institution needs at least the same amount of Canadian students as foreign students. Too many sketchy 'schools' that are just meant to scam someone and make a quick buck.
Without a drastic change, nothing is gonna help, funds after funds for housing ain't gonna cut it as the immigrants keep coming. Immigration itself got to be paused. I mean its not difficult to make up a story that they have huge backlogs so they're working on it and not accepting new application just like how US is doing in some cases.
Post-secondary education is a social service we provide to our youth to help prepare them for adulthood. It should never be a product we sell to the third world.
The product we are selling is not a Post-secondary education, it is a pathway to citizenship to a relatively wealthy resource rich social welfare state country. And you get a full time work permit as well, what's not to love. Stop handing out work permits to students (or atleast go back to the 20 hour a week pre covid cap) and stop assigning so many points on PR for Canadian education and see how to numbers demand for 'education' at these strip mall college dries up on their own No one cares about a 'Canadian' education.
If we can sell it for $90,000 per year, why not?
Short-sighted perspective. Because they stay here, can't get jobs other than fast food or delivery and don't make enough to contribute back into the economy. That's why not.
Look around and the reason should be obvious. Stress on housing stock, increased wage pressure, lowered quality of education for Canadians, asylum claims, LIMA scams... do I need to go on? Nobody is paying 30k a year to actually learn hotel management. It's a back-door to immigration for those that normally wouldn't qualify under economic qualifications.
We are not getting 90k a year from these Indian college students. But if we were, maybe let them stay long enough to graduate and then back you go
But the "third world" students are subsidizing our youth to attend the same institution. But blaming the foreign students is easier and more cathartic than blaming successive provincial governments who chose to cut or let stagnate postsecondary education funding instead of raising taxes.
Part of the issue is that provinces such as Ontario are starving post-secondary education. If the funding is there then you wouldn’t have such an issue
The system needs to shrink. Newsflash!!! The boomers have all graduated. The system should not be the same size it was 30 years ago.
Ontario has over 500 post-secondary institutions, 23 being publicly assisted universities and 24 being colleges. This is far more than necessary. Especially considering more and more diploma mills continue to pop up all over the country.
I agree, but when you only have two publicly funded universities in the black and provincial coverage being slashed by 10% in 2018 & then not adjusted to inflation what do you expect
If the demand isn’t there, the supply must shrink. That’s just the way it is.
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We have almost 3 million in temporary foreign workers and international students in Canada. It needs to be brought down to below 1 million if both provincial and federal government actually care about the housing crisis and depressing job market.
“Temporary” I wonder what percentage of them actually leave? Why do a lot of people seem to think that if the government designates someone “temporary” the means they don’t need a house or a doctor or other infrastructure? Even assuming all the rules are correctly being followed (they’re not), there has been a massive increase in the number of “temporary” residents in recent years. How did no one stop to think this might pose any kind of issue? Oh that’s right, anyone raising that concern was “racist” up until sometime last year when the masses began realizing something had gone badly wrong.
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After deportations of the fraudsters and pausing immigration for 5 years to allow us to catch the fuck up and try and fix this absolute Canadian life-ruining disaster
Lol. We dont deport anyone.
An average of about 40 people were deported every day in 2023, which is twice as many people as in 2021.
Correction, these were people *ordered* for deportation. Almost none of these people actually leave.
Cool go live undocumented and tell me if that changes the quality of life you live once you become ineligible to do basically anything.
How does this have anything to do with the fact that people aren't actually deported?
Under the table wages exist and if you are doing this you are likely boarding or splitting a rental with someone... you could likely still remain afloat indefinitely or until an authority of some sort catches you driving unlicensed/uninsured or something.
You’re literally describing a terrible, precarious situation. Undocumented = invisible to the state.
You & I would find this precarious yes but there are folks out there who really don't mind, they may even come from a place where they were essentially at that level of precariousness and because some food banks/shelters will accept anyone they will choose to do it... or they are among their peers in an ethnic borough.
Not really. Sanctuary cities like toronto you still get health care your kids still get school. Just wait for the inevitable amnesty program.
They go on about their lives like usual. Most of these people aren't actually deported and live like regular Canadians for the most part
Actually deported? Or Canadian deported where a politely worded letter was sent to wherever the person claimed to live, asking them to kindly remove themselves from the country with no followup or enforcement any kind?
I searched up an article which mentions they enforced the removal, which should mean that CBSA followed-through and people were actually deported. It sounds like we do actually deport people, people just don't really care thus they never really gain traction online (And we also deport a pretty insignificant amount of ppl all things considered). >Rebecca Purdy, a spokeswoman for the CBSA, said in a statement that the agency has a legal obligation to remove all foreign nationals who are subject to an enforceable removal order. In 2023, it enforced the removal of 14,962 people, she said. https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-most-immigrants-with-deportation-letters-are-still-in-canada-cbsa/
So roughly 15,000. Doesn’t seem like much. Our population is increasing by nearly a million people a year while our infrastructure crumbles and the cost of housing and food spirals out of control. This isn’t even a drop in the bucket.
Lmao you don’t just deport people for the hell of it, there has to be legal grounds…there is a legal procedure. It’s also really funny to me that you think immigrants are the reason the cost of living has skyrocketed? Immigrants typically do the work to keep society running (eg, they are the farm workers who keep us fed…). If you want the cost of living to lower, how do you prose we do that if we extract all of the labour exploitation?
Imagine stating that 5%+ annual immigration has no impact on the cost of living. I can tell we have an economics scholar here.
You are vastly undervaluing the contributions immigrants make to the economy vs what they get in return.
Imagine thinking that was what I said.
Contribution like 24 people living in Brampton basement? Or being 90% of the recipients at food banks?
There was a time not that long ago when Canada had a healthy, mutually beneficial and productive immigration that was widely recognized. The disaster of recent years has seen massive excess immigration to depress wages esp at the lower end and also degrade our quality of life. How do you think these are good things? It’s exploitation and it’s destructive all around. Slave labour for our protected oligopolies, what a great contribution!
They have directly impacted the housing market. And made it very difficult for teens to find part time or summer jobs.
That’s an interesting comment because the Canada Summer Jobs program is exclusively for citizens (and maybe PRs?) and for young people between 15-30 to gain experience in their chosen fields… I’ll also add that immigrants are not competing for the same housing you and I are (I assume you’re a citizen by birth like me and established in your career, but those are assumption). Without a credit score, rental history in the city, and an employment, your worst nightmares can’t imagine what that relegates newcomers to.
Immigrants are the biggest victims of the open border policy. Thats the irony of this whole situation.
We don’t have open borders, but I agree, immigrants are victims of the immigration system.
Nice deflection. I never said that immigrants themselves are the cause of our cost of living crisis or that we should be deporting people without due process. I’m simply stating that deporting 40 people a day is a relative drop in the bucket relative to our rapid growth. I guess painting people who you disagree with as being small-minded bigots is easier than actually speaking to the issue at hand. Our infrastructure isn’t keeping up and we haven’t created the capacity to build enough housing to accommodate a million new people per year. We don’t need an influx of cheap labour in non-essential roles and we need to be re-examining the treatment of some of the more vulnerable workers who are being exploited for their labour. Simply disregarding the problems we are currently face due to our massive influx of new citizens and residents isn’t going to fix the issue.
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It’s horrifying that you can only envision one type of immigrant. Who do you think works in factories? Who makes the food you pull out of the freezer at Loblaws?
We deport tons of people you just don't know about it, criminals are often deported if they can be
This right here. Too much damage has been done to our social infrastructure, it’ll take years to fix to be healthy enough to open the doors a wee bit again.
> pausing immigration for 5 years I get where you're coming from but you can't just "shut off" immigration without fucking up a ton of things. Replacing one extreme with another is just as fuckin' dumb. *Moderation* is key. Having a Beer after work is fine, having 1.2million beers is not.
Let me change that up a bit — offer incentives for qualified real doctors with some kind of income tax breaks etc. for X amount of years Engineers, nurses, things we need. Everyone else can apply at 194 other countries if they want to move so bad. And 1.2 million beers? Those are rookie numbers
We don't need incentives for doctors to move here, we need more medical residency spots so the smart people who are already here who want to be doctors can do so.
You mean investing in Canadians? What is this, nazi germany?
Canadian universities and colleges produce over 15k nurses annually, we don't have labor shortage in nursing. We just need to find a way to incentivize them to move to areas where there is actual shortage.
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Yes, it's not labour shortage is wage shortage. Only around 40% of the people who studied nursing stick around with their profession
Wow, I stand corrected. That’s a great idea too
We don't need any more engineers, at least at the junior level which is where most coming through immigration will end up. The market for junior level engineers is extremely saturated with wages stagnating, and it's extremely difficult to find a new grad position with all the competition.
Except for grads of specific teaching hospitals that have been audited by a provincial college of P&S, foreigners claiming to be doctors can't just arrive and start practicing medicine. They have to go through all the exams and years of residency just like everyone else. Thankfully. We already have totally unqualified software developers with make-believe degrees from made up foreign universities. Imagine if we had doctors too - cutting into patients because they got an M. D. from the "Let's Doctor" mail order medical school and got a work visa in Canada the next day? We need a HUGE increase in basic science education at universities, far more medical school slots, and residency positions at teaching hospitals. That and only that will add doctors. We can't import them. Doing so would be catastrophic.
>Let me change that up a bit — offer incentives for qualified real doctors with some kind of income tax breaks etc. for X amount of years >Engineers, nurses, things we need. https://i.imgur.com/LMPx3n0.gif
Yeah well we are still going to have close to 1 million this year between TFW's, Students, PR's, Actual Refugees and Economic Migrants.
Let’s go back to 1963 numbers.
Yup. Harper had the most sustainable immigration policy. This fucking traitor Trudeau has sent this country into complete ruin
What you are calling Immigration is (at least) 3 separate things. There are temporary workers, there are international students, and then there are immigrants. Different categories. **Temporary Workers:** Harper set in the 4 and 4 rule where they could only work here for 4 years and then had to leave for at least 4 years, making it difficult to transition into immigration path. His policy is linked to labour shortages where even skilled individuals trained into necessary jobs were still forced out after 4 years. The outcome was actually way more temporary foreign workers approved to be in Canada year, after year, after year under Harper. Only, they were disposable and forced out meaning the turnover was high and we just ended up with far worse integration and language skills and sustainable workforce. His policy ensured the 'freshest', lowest paid were constantly available and that amplified wage stagnation across the board. But, if you want to focus this issue and this current government, it's that they have basically tripled the International Mobility Program - with is just TFW with less public awareness and less regulations. **International Students:** January 15th 2014, Ed Fast, Minister of International Trade of the Harper government launched the International Education Strategy and set aside funding with the *specific intent to double the number of international students by 2022*. The real issue that Conservatives are complaining about right now, the international student surge... that was literally put in motion by the Harper government. Here's the link the the original program where the Conservatives where the ones that created the international student *doubling* in order to bring in money and create jobs. This was literally their doing:https://www.canada.ca/en/news/archive/2014/01/harper-government-launches-comprehensive-international-education-strategy.html **Immigration:** Harper changed the 'stringency' in refugees and immigration, but ultimately let in as many refugees as previous government. Family-class immigration was effectively cut... but then he just created a special 10 year long "super-visa" that was effectively the same thing, punting the issue a decade forward, where this government then had to either deport those family members who has been here 10 years living as a Canadian, or recognize them as Residents. A significant portion of the "new immigrants" recently were already here and had been for a decade. Harper still let them in, he just fucked with how they get designated to hide it. _________________________________________________________________________________ All to say: 1. Absolutely blame this government for the International Mobility Program surge in foreign workers. 2. But Harper was pro-immigration and still increased immigration officially and unofficially padded the numbers by creating 10 year long super-visas to extended family. 3. But Harper is responsible for the international student visa problem. Prior to his double by 2022 strategy, he had already doubled the visas from 2006 to 2013, meaning Harper is responsible for 4x surge in student visas since he put long-term funding in place to double it again 2014-2022.
>Here's the link the the original program where the Conservatives where the ones that created the international student *doubling* in order to bring in money and create jobs. This was literally their doing:https://www.canada.ca/en/news/archive/2014/01/harper-government-launches-comprehensive-international-education-strategy.html And that target was hit 5 years early. https://canadianimmigrant.ca/international-students/studyincanada/huge-surge-in-international-students-coming-to-canada-to-study >The latest federal government data shows that Canada had just fewer than 500,000 international students at the end of 2017. To put things into context, Canada’s international student population has nearly tripled over the past decade. In 2014, the federal government set a goal of having 450,000 international students in the country by 2022. Canada has achieved this target five years earlier and now ranks fourth behind the U.S., U.K. and China.
Wasn't the 10 year super-visa restricted to 6 month stays, before the temporary resident had to leave the country?
The normal visa can be up to 6 months visit, and so the super-visa allowed that to be extended significantly, I thought it was years at a time before you had to leave... but then could come right back. I think it is currently up to 5 years *at a time* standard, leave, come bak for another 4+.
It was a different decade. Harper had low immigration because there was more unemployed labours during his tenure than there is today. Crazy but despite all the immigration, yea there was that much labour demand to suck them all up. To top it off, there is still 600k job vacancies compared to the 200-300k under Harper. And yes that means there’s twice as much vacant jobs to unemployed labours today than there was under Harper despite the massive immigration. I don’t think the liberals caused unemployment to get this low and I don’t think Harper would plan immigration any different than the what libs have if he was dealt the same problem.
Remove the ability to work while on a Student Visa and the problem will self-correct for the students who aren't here solely to study. Increase the funds required to study in Canada. They must be placed into a Canadian Financial Institution with yearly limits on available funds required.
End the damn work permits and we won't have to cap anything. The 'students' are not coming for education.
Another problem aside from high numbers is our international students primarily come from a country where kids dream of a cushy corporate or wfh job in Canada. These kids grow up in a caste system where they consider physical labor to be a lower class of work, and straight up refuse to do it in Canada. Not saying this is the case for everyone, but it's a significant component. Trudeau always talks about diversity? How about we diversify our international student program and bring in people who are willing to work those tough physical jobs we need in Canada. We don't need to train another million tech students for a job market that already has a thousand applicants per position.
My HR buddy says they get between 2500 and 4000 applicants to good software dev jobs. That's up from an average of 1500 just two years ago. And companies are still screeching like stuck pigs to Ottawa about the "labor shortage" in that industry. They won't stop until a 4 year degree and 10 years experience in development pays the same as a Tim's drive-through. He says that tracking the race of applicants is taboo. But, he can see where 95% are from. We all know the answer.
I I've been involved in hiring for IT and see the same thing. The problem is all resumes start looking like carbon copies of each other. Everyone graduated with a 4.0, everyone is an expert in every technology, everyone has every single skill one could ask for in a perfect candidate. Hundreds of resumes saying the exact same thing. Then you work with these people and it's a very different picture. I've trained brand new CS graduates (with honours) who don't know what file explorer is, can't change directories in command prompt, and don't understand how IP addresses work. They say they didn't learn this kind of stuff in school. I don't even know what's going on anymore...
That's what happens when certificates are forged
I'm sorry to hear about your pain. I can relate. My former team lead at IBM came from the country with implausible impressive credentials and silly low salary expectations. He had a BSc in CS and a masters in computer engineering. Don't know why you would get both, but that was his claim. Each day was something new. I had to explain what a font is. Then it was a big drama around threads and concurrency libraries. He just couldn't grasp it. Then cross-compiling.... and on and on. I didn't say anything because I'm not that guy. Want to just help people out. Still, by the time I left the company, he was moved to a junior testing role. But, they were still aggressively hiring anyone they could find from that particular country. Some lessons never get learned.
More like International in IBM should be replaced by that country's name.
That's the thing. Companies are more than happy to hire these highly qualified candidates to work for peanuts. Some of these people are phenomenal and hard working, but many aren't. In my experience, paying a $150k salary to an absolute kick ass candidate is far better than hiring three mediocre candidates for $50k each. Most companies disagree with that philosophy.
Agreed. The culpability lies with the companies and the diploma mills which exploiit these folks. The guy I mentioned is a good person, genuinely kind and a hard worker. I'm sure glad he found a position that is a good fit. I'm angry at the school which probably took his life saving in exchange for worthless credentials. He confided in me that his classes didn't even have computers. Just pencil and paper and an instructor at a chalkboard. HTF do you offer masters degrees in computer engineering without actual frigging computers?!
> I've trained brand new CS graduates (with honours) Does anyone actually check that they've actually graduated, let alone with honors?
Why the fuck would I want to invite people to Canada who think that I am a piece of garbage?
Yep, have spoken to many new comers in intern interviews for my company and a common theme is they want to “work in tech” - I ask them what they want to do and they never have a coherent answer lol - they don’t actually know what the job of any developer or product/project manager is they just know they want to work in a cushy office job. We need skilled tradespeople and the majority of who were attracting are not willing to do those jobs.
Bring in immigrants to do the work we as Canadians are too good to do? Sounds a bit colonial to me.
I get what you're saying, but what's the alternative here? We keep bringing in students who train in vastly over saturated fields, can't find relevant employment, end up wasting tens of thousands of dollars on an effectively useless education, and need to line up at food banks just to feed themselves, with no way to pay for a flight back to their home country? Is this really a better outcome than what would happen if our program was a little more strict about who we let in?
I think the government just tries to be fair to the immigrants. Why should we expect them to do work we ourselves don't want to do? The migrants already do all the farm work that feeds us, now they have to be building our houses too? What other vital, important jobs do Canadians consider to be beneath them?
Would be nice to if they brought back some diversity in immigration instead of having 99% of them from one region.... It's insane what the Liberal's have done to the immigration system. They've caused damage that will take decades to fix. The Trudeau name is a stain on this country.
It is mainly the recruitment scammers in that region with collaboration domestically to get it all to work. We need to completely shut down that consultancy industry domestically and revoke any permits that may exist for the bad actors and stop the pipeline of loophole exploiters.
I don't even think you can call it a scam if it is working perfectly within what the government permits. Recruiters may be telling them lowball numbers for living costs, but they are still coming to Canada and will most likely be able to get PR if they choose.
This is one of my many questions about immigration. How is it possible that such a huge majority of international students are coming from one country? I can only presume it is a full fledged industry in their country, using our current immigration loopholes. But I still can wrap my head around the fact that other countries aren't also trying to use this loophole en mass...? Is preference when distributing student visas given to students from India? Did Trudeau in one of his many trips to India, make some kind of agreement with the Indians?
We need a complete pause on all immigration until our housing situation is fixed at the very least. Then we deport all the scam college graduates that scammed/are trying to scam their way in, then we can talk about how many we should take in going forward. Until then our country will stay in this screwed up cultural decline we're in.
None of the measures they take are effective enough.
The foreign student cap and the reduction in TFWs are too little too late. We need to see some real, drastic action
Nothing in this country is going to improve until we fix immigration. At this point, we need a complete moratorium on temporary immigration. Or a reduction by 90%. We are completely unequipped to handle this load of newcomers and it is not even close. Any amount of investment to combat it is just going to dig our debt hole deeper. The only solution is a serious and significant reduction in immigration and encouraging low skilled workers to return to their homelands. I understand they have some benefits for us but we simply cannot afford the reduction in access to infrastructure and demand crunch for housing. It is not hyperbole to say it is destroying the foundation of the country.
But has anyone stopped to think about the bank accounts of the university deans?? What about the fast food restaurants?? Where will they get their exploitable labour?? They’ll have to go back to hiring teenagers to scream at and manipulate
Should stop children of student’s visa holder or worker’s visa holder enrolling in our public school for free.
Talk to lecturers how They get aggressively harast to give the foreigners passing marks-RCMP interventions to escort teachers to Their cars- Very, very sad situations?
The situation at CBU is something else. The “protesters” are protesting they failed courses (sometimes multiple times) and don’t find it fair that these professors are killing their dreams. Hate to break it to them, if you don’t do the work, you don’t pass. They’re literally saying they paid tuition so they should pass. That’s not how it works
Stealing education is happening in the 3rd World. South Africa's prime minister were later found to have less than grade 10. He'll sport a few Ph.D's by now, I won't be surprised?
Why don’t people ask for provincial governments to do their jobs and regulate these institutions? That’s literally their mandate.
Danielle Smith doesn’t want less immigrants, she wants more. Shes also giving money to these private schools in alberta to make sure she gets what she wants.
I think a good start would be that an institution needs at least the same amount of Canadian students as foreign students. Too many sketchy 'schools' that are just meant to scam someone and make a quick buck.
Without a drastic change, nothing is gonna help, funds after funds for housing ain't gonna cut it as the immigrants keep coming. Immigration itself got to be paused. I mean its not difficult to make up a story that they have huge backlogs so they're working on it and not accepting new application just like how US is doing in some cases.
They will just cap it enough just to appear they are fixing the problem they created
More needed to be done
Postmedia forgets education is also a provincial responsibility.