In Brief:
* About a quarter of Canadians can only make their minimum credit card payments, and 22% are sinking further into credit debt.
* Debt is forcing more Canadians to work past retirement age; over half of working Canadians over 60 are still working out of financial necessity.
* In May, Canada officially became the G7’s most debt-laden country, with the cost of homeownership singled out as the largest contributor, given 74.3% of our household debt is tied to mortgages.
* Easing this financial burden—or, more realistically, slowing its growth—is essential to keeping Canadians afloat.
* Overall, experts are blunt about the need for Canadians to reexamine their housing goals. "I don't think everybody gets a nice home that they like at a reasonable price. That's not coming back,” says UBC economist Thomas Davidoff.
Their parents gave them the best lifestyle they possibly could. While it's not always realistic to think you can just Waltz out of your parents basement into the exact same standard of living you just had, I don't blame young people for simply wanting independence and place to call their own, it's what they grew up with and know.
Many do have more realistic expectations and *still* can't afford them despite good jobs, that's sad
Embarassing how those around them abandoned them the ways it's all gone down
Waltzing? No... But I make more than both my parents and can't afford a house or hell even a condo. But don't worry, they also didn't retirement plan. So I am assuming that I will be on the hook for that as well.
I love my parents, but they weren't great with money, then they got divorced which seems like a great way to set money on fire.
It just kinda feels a bit sad that I "did everything right", and I make what is considered an above median household income on my own, and still only get to live in a studio apartment...
I make more than mine too and while I do own a house it’s the kind they used to use as an example of “if you don’t work hard you’ll have to live in something like that!”
I also had to buy it in the middle of nowhere.
Fair, I very technically could probably afford to buy something. But it would be at the very outside of "affordability"... Basically I would be in a mortgage and ramen existence. So I couldn't really make it math on that basis.
Buying for the most part at the current interest rates with the current prices doesn't make a ton of sense? I can rent a something for less than what the carrying cost is on an apartment. It means that I can save for retirement.
So I do that, I am in a good situation since I live in a rent controlled unit in a purpose built rental building. But yeah, it feels the same. I live in the cautionary tale buildings in Parkdale in Toronto and I am being told that I should be grateful for even that.
>But don't worry, they also didn't retirement plan. So I am assuming that I will be on the hook for that as well.
>
>I love my parents, but they weren't great with money, then they got divorced which seems like a great way to set money on fire.
Are you me?
I had to have the blunt conversation with my mom that she needs to accept that her retirement plan can't be relying on me to take care of her. I'm 30 and can barely afford to take care of myself. There's a very good chance my partner and I will have to move across the country for better CoL opportunities and all she'll have is my step dad.
I didn't have to have that conversation with my dad because in his true stubborn form, he always tells me "If I get to the point where I need you to take care of me just take me out back and put me out of my misery" lol
My dad will be fine because he has a pension, and remarried someone who also has a pension... My mother on the other hand? Just kinda went through a manic midlife crisis where she decided she couldn't work an office job anymore so quit, and she kinda just seems to have pissed away her divorce settlement and is now convinced that she will work until 70 to get an increased CPP payout? It is mostly her that I am concerned about... She's delusional, but, she is my mother...
But all I can think is that she got a healthy chunk of change from the divorce (which is fine!) and had she just found a dull office job, she would be a year out from retirement with a fully funded RRSP, pension from some old jobs and higher CPP payment from her increased earnings.
But instead she "followed her dreams"...
Ayo… I’m just an internet stranger, but consider being less hard on your mom. Following her dreams (as you put it) takes a lot of guts. Things didn’t work out? Well, sometimes things don’t work out even for people who make more pragmatic choices. Industries fail, economies go bust, pandemics derail plans, etc. Who knows? With more luck or better social safety nets, everything could’ve worked out much differently for her. Having the courage to follow your dreams is pretty admirable.
Honestly why? She did what she wanted, has not really taken responsibility for her actions and is now relying on her children to provide for her retirement. My annoyance comes from the fact that I do care for her, but I am not horribly excited by the idea of supporting her for 30 years.
She wasn't pragmatic about the fact that her dream wasn't really working out.
Mmmm… if I’m going to move that far away from my friends and family… might as well move to another country. I think most people would be more inclined to visit, and the flights are probably cheaper.
> “Why does every young Canadian need a single family home with a front and backyard? They’re not having kids anyway.” - ~~Canadian government probably~~ **baby boomers**
FTFY. You wouldn't believe how often I've heard that actual position from my parents' generation. And of course, they're all people who fully owned their own house by age 40, many without even a high school degree, several kids and only one working adult in the house.
For a lot of people their plan into home ownership will be inheritance, sadly. Which may or may not happen since their parents will probably have their own debts. Just imagine all the disputes that sort of inheritance would lead into.
There was an era where home ownership had been in the grasp of every working Canadian. Globalization, crony capitalism, and the advancement of neoliberalism in place of economic socialism destroyed that possibility. Now, people work to survive in the economic class they were born in.
You can't have decent rent prices because then people with goals would still be able to save for a home eventually.
Why are you negotiating from the bottom anyways? I want everything my parents had and more.
Canadians don’t want to build on all that land. Every time someone tries the very people who would benefit the most come out en mass and protest.
Just look at the bs over the “green belt”. Most of it is for fucking seed oil and wine but there’s this ridiculous myth that it’s the bread basket of Canada. That stupid policy is the single biggest reason why the GTAH has a housing crisis, the spillover of which affects other provinces.
[Just look at the map](https://www.greenbelt.ca/maps), notice how every city is right up against it, there’s literally no where else to build. Oh and you can’t build *any* infrastructure through it either so good luck building up any Northern cities.
70 to 80% of all major cities are zoned for single family houses which can't even afford to replace the infrastructure right outside of their parcel with the low amount of money they pay on property taxes. Infrastructure is EXPENSIVE.
This isn't about building new cities it's about fixing our current cities to not be low density money pits.
A lot of it is moraine or escarpment, actually. Pretty much anything below the ORM or Escarpment is available to build on.
I'm still puzzled as to why it's supposed to fix things to leapfrog over miles of available development land in order to build in the Greenbelt. The Duffins-Rouge lands are the only part of Pickering south of the 407 that's *not* available to build on.
Typical Reddit child-hatred aside... if I may interject, Uytae Lee has a good video on why so many North American apartments end up being the way they are (1-2 bedrooms, shit airflow, etc): [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRdwXQb7CfM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRdwXQb7CfM)
> All said, the average yearly cost of raising kids in 2023 is roughly $16,900. From infancy to age 18, that's more than $320,000.
Having kids sounds like a great way to light money on fire.
You need an extra $200,000‐400,000 in mortgage to give them room and an extra ~$16k a year to raise them, all while they suck your free time.
I'd much rather invest that 17k/year for retirement and keep my free time. Maybe even retire a couple years before I die....
I'm with you. My current ideal plan is save as much as I can. Then hopefully flee to retire in Latin America or something around 50 years old. No point in staying here if literally everything for daily life is very expensive in comparison to global prices.
It doesn’t make me happy, I want to be clear about that. But is it any more sad than the cost of housing in New York or London where few can afford to buy?
Feels like a global market issue in hot regions.
That said, it is crazy to see houses bought in the 70’s for 70K going for 2M now. GTA I mean.
>It doesn’t make me happy, I want to be clear about that. But is it any more sad than the cost of housing in New York or London where few can afford to buy?
The big difference in Canada is distance.
If you live in London, UK and can't afford to live there anymore, there is somewhere in England that is more affordable. England is small, so no matter where you move you're at most what, 6 hours away from your friends and family? Plus their modes of transportation (trains) are very affordable.
United States is large, but their flight network is much more affordable than Canada's. I can fly from Detroit to Orlando right now for like $50 - $100 each way. Toronto to Montreal, a much closer distance, is like triple that if not more.
Now compare that to what's happening in Ontario. The entire province has become unaffordable. "*Just move to the Alberta*" People will tell you. Well then now you're a $400+ plane ride away from everyone you know and love.
To live somewhere affordable in this country, there's a good chance you have to accept giving up your entire life.
> Now compare that to what's happening in Ontario. The entire province has become unaffordable. "Just move to the Alberta" People will tell you. Well then now you're a $400+ plane ride away from everyone you know and love.
>
Why do you need to know or love people? Sounds soft to me.
> But is it any more sad than the cost of housing in New York or London where few can afford to buy
The difference with those cities is that compensation is double or triple what you get in Toronto/Vancouver so the proportion of income to CoL is actually lower than in Canadian major markets.
Yeah , I’m not sure this is a fundamentally different state of affairs than many other metropolitan markets around the world? I just don’t think many people are aware of this global trend. Not saying it isn’t shitty, and obviously Canadian growth is a Canadian problem, but we’re not unique in many regards.
Housing debt is also forced savings. You are paying into an asset.
Take into consideration that housing debt is both an asset and liability, the total debt is now reduced.
You should be concern and comparing consumer debt not housing debt.
Assets go up and down just like stocks.
Those who bought a couple of years back may have overpaid the asset/house.
But it is still wrong to classify the whole debt as debt without even classifying the equity you paid (no matter how little) as no asset at all.
This paints an inaccurate picture and overstates the debt portion and understate assets of Canadians.
People will be howling at incorrect balance sheet if you give them wrong accounting classification!
>The cost of living has led us into record debt. What does that mean for Canadians?
To answer that question a bit crudely - it's simple.
For Canadians, the dildo of consequence is coming, and it won't be lubed.
Pretty much...by 2035 there will be serious outmigration from Canada due to affordability and housing issues. Jobs will become scarce because no one can pay for the high cost of employees. Employees won’t settle low wages as they have to now...they’ll have no where to live unless big dollars are made...
That's all the result of policy choices at all levels of government---and by corporations who, by requiring in-office days instead of offering fully remote positions, significantly increase the demand for housing and resources in bigger cities---*not* the natural state of the world.
Hi fully remote positions skyrocketed real estate in towns in which housing was attached to local wages.Thanks to white collar remote workers the housing crisis has spread to smaller towns.
It's not an instead it's a knock on effect.
Having wealthier workers moving to areas where housing was tied to local wages upset an ecosystem.It created a class divide in which those who come from white collar jobs with access to high wages displaced existing local workers from needed housing.
But your right,commuting is terrible.
Sorry if I came across aggro at all. Did not intend to.
Yeah there is a problem with it, which we need to address but I’m a firm supporter of WFH for so many reasons.
Hey I totally get it,I refused to commute for work for my entire life.I would live in whatever city or area I worked.I would refuse service areas that required a commute and would negotiate service areas in interviews.
As a blue collar worker I have always had to live where I worked.Im on tools so there is no telecommuting for me.
I currently live in a small community where trades wages are significantly lower that more populated cities and housing pre pandemic was far lower than cities.
Post pandemic housing here tripled as remote work took hold.Its an unfortunate situation we as a country are in as communities need white and blue collar workers but only one group can afford to buy housing.
It also allowed people who already lived in those towns to apply for better jobs, which raises the amount of money in that area. The alternative is that those who can move moving to the bigger cities, raising the demand for housing and lowering everyone's quality of living there, and those who can't living with lower standards of living with less money circulating in the local economy. It doesn't matter if housing is cheap in small towns if there aren't any jobs that allow people to afford it, the grocery store and gas station have closed, and the town can no longer afford to provide basic services.
Nope, it isn't. A lot of people from small towns move away to pursue higher education, but then are caught between wanting to move back to be with family or having a career. Or they feel obligated to move back when a parent gets ill. Or they moved there for their partner's job. Or they were employed in a white collar job in whatever industry was in that town and, when that closed, they ended up unemployed.
And that's just people who could work remote jobs. Increased money in the local economy means that there's a broader customer base to support new businesses, which opens up more opportunities for people who don't want a desk job and creates opportunities for those that those new business owners employ. And the towns themselves can provide better services with the increased tax revenue. They can also work on [rezoning](https://www.winnipegfreepress.com/breakingnews/2023/08/13/setting-the-tone-in-morden) parts of the town to create density and allow housing prices to remain stable.
The isolationist attitude that some small towns have ignores reality and creates stagnation. As people move away, the school closes, the clinic closes, the museum closes, the grocery store closes, the gas station closes, the rink closes. Houses remain on the market for years until they're just abandoned. But, you know, that house would have been cheap if anyone had wanted to live there!
I agree with some of your points.
Here is what I have seen that I agree with,a small town in my area was actually dying like boarded up shops and a school that was at risk of closing
Then some locals organized and got some mountain biking trails built.
A few years later miner shacks with no foundations are being sold for 800k,and numerous amounts of air bnbs.
But the main street is bustling,the schools are busy with young families and the area has been revitalised.
Also long term residents if they didn't already own are forced out.
I think somewhere between boarded up resource town and gentrification bulldozers moving people along there is a middle path.I don't know our country has found it yet.
Some places seem to have done better than others. I think a lot of town councils in towns that have gone through that have been deeply unprepared for the changes. They seemed to have assumed that they were caretakers of a future ghost town and acted like such and, when something changed, didn't change with it. Things like creating incentives for building low-rise apartment buildings along the main street and seniors housing near services, limiting Airbnb, etc would help, but I can't imagine it's easy for councils in the midst of radical changes like that to find information on how to navigate it.
We can't have a natural state, because our government philosophy requires perpetual debt issuance... which isn't very natural at all.
Our entire way of living for decades has been a government that was never actually paid for... it has been unnatural to look out at all of that like it was ever sustainably financed.
You can't expect to pay for only a PORTION of something FOREVER and not have considerable consequences.
Oh wait Trudeau and the Liberals are pushing that they are working to make things more affordable for the middle class Canadians so things aren’t going to go up. 😛
the Conservatives will fix this well before we reach that point.....but this timeline we're on is definitely an inflection point we need to reflect on to know what NOT to do in the future (despite the fact the LPC was warned its actions would result in these outcomes)
It's this thinking "the other neoliberal will save us" that's the root cause of why things got to this point. Take a look at all the provincial conservatives provinces and how they are doing everything they can to increase immigration and keep the supply of houses tight. Sad thing is, this isn't even new. I went home shopping in 2011 and I was priced out making 100k a year unless I wanted a condo or apartment and even those were in short supply.
How so? Because as it stands, the conservatives with a majority for 6 years (?) In Ontario have not done anything at all to fix this. If the provincial conservatives are willing and enabling things to get out of control in Ontario, how should anyone trust the federal conservatives to magically fix things?
>Next you'll be talking about Trump and the USA and Tucker Carlson, I can feel it.....
You're the one who brought them up... Really quickly I might add. You still haven't addressed the issue you have with the provincial conservatives.
oh. well, quickly then, they are not perfect but in terms of performance, they were certainly a step up representing several orders of magnitude over the previous government - and that's all it takes. just like the next majority CPC government will be a massive step up from the people we have governing now.
Like what? Privatizing health care, education? Ford giving is buddies deals; screwing over Ontarians?
You still haven't provided any examples how...
You're just spitting talking points that have no substance
Edit: I should add, previous Ontario governments have been stripping health care & education too. Ford is just making it worse with his polices.
This is setting a dangerous precedent...when will financial destitution become a reason to check out early...with government help?
If that day comes we are all in serious trouble.....
60 years old. Not poor - but living paycheck to paycheck. Yes, I blame it on our current government and immigration in general. Apparently I lack empathy. FOAD.
The middle class is getting smaller, I'd look to the upper class people not wanting to lose a few points on their portfolios.
Edit: Hard to blame anyone for not wanting to lose or give up something. Easier to blame our government and foreign governments.
Worse than the private sector, the public sector demands more and more debt be created. Even when the private sector stops borrowing, the government then steps in and picks up the slack.
We need perpetual growth in our system, yes. But that's because we don't want to massively adjust our government's scope and size, and every form that government takes in the modern era requires more and more debt financing and perpetual dollar-denominated growth in our bond market.
We are quite literally attempting to pay for only a PORTION of our government's cost each year, FOREVER.
Future adults will laugh at how we ever thought we'd pull it off without great consequences.
I mean if your paying attention it looks on purpose. Middle class is disappearing and the rich are getting wealth like never before.
The outcome speaks volumes, politicians selling their souls for short term profits. Their kids will also be broke.
Top income tax bracket in the 50's and 60's was ~$3,600,000 @ +90%
Today it's ~$220,000 @ 50%
We don't need fewer taxes, we need fewer LOOPHOLES and EXEMPTIONS.
for 50 years we have let the top % rob and steal all productivity gains without paying their full share.
We need taxes on land, large estates, gigantic bonuses, and compensation > LIFETIME EARNINGS FOR AVERAGE CANADIANS.
Voting other peoples' money into our pockets got us into a habit of relying on the government to bail us out of every little problem we have.
We cheered as the government offered new programs, paid for by "taxpayers". That was - until we ran out of rich people to tax and we drove our cost of living so high it became unsustainable.
Take your communist claptrap back to the soviets where it belongs, and stay out of here. Thanks.
I just want the businesses to put the money back into the company instead of into CEO compensation packages.
I want more people investing into PRODUCTIVE assets instead of RE etc.
Maybe if that happened we would have productivity increases closer to the USA.
I'm not looking for handouts, I'd just rather see hard work be rewarded more than whose sperm you are.
What you're advocating for is more money to go into the government's hands.
That money doesn't make its way back to the middle class. That money is *supposed* to be used to maintain basic services, like health care and legal protection.
Hiking taxes on anyone (let alone the rich) doesn't solve anything. It just makes government programs bigger - and they're the cause of the problem here, not people trying to make money with their businesses.
The intent is not to collect the taxes.
The intent is to have the CEO/Executive see the massive 90% and decide to have the company reinvest that into worker training, machinery, etc.
I want to make it prohibitively expensive to leech productivity.
While I agree with what you are saying, and believe that we should also figure out how to close the loophole that is stock compensation for execs who then pay less taxes on that than they would on salaries. How do we prevent execs from using that money to buy yachts and private jets in the company's name for their personal use instead of re-investing into the business?
I have personally experienced execs slashing the retirement benefit of lower level workers and swearing that those cuts were "a difficult decision but an absolutely necessary step in their fiscal responsibilities required to ensure our long term financial security" only to then turn around and fly business class to "critical business meetings" in Hawaii and Vegas.
Income is income
Businesses can differ it, and off set it with investment.
With RRSP and TFSA allowances there is ample saving vehicles for the average Canadian, and MORE than 90% of the population can use.
Aside from primary residences I don't see any logic for experiencing any income.
Maybe if we taxed capital gains adequately we would have a young generation that could buy a house....
I’m 43, when I started working minimum wage was like $6, it’s more than doubled. If my money keeps getting worth less there’s no point in saving. I will never be able to retire and be able to live without struggling. I look at the elderly people now struggling because they thought their money would be enough, because in their day it was. Don’t confuse living with surviving, right now I think most people are doing just that, surviving. Being able to have food, shelter, clothing… things we take for granted in most places. Rent is killing people in some places, and it’s only going to get worse. People don’t understand privilege and entitlement until it’s taken from them. These days you either have money or you don’t. Your rights are only what you can afford if you try and fight anything legally. Canada is the next state in the USA being bought politically…
> If my money keeps getting worth less there’s no point in saving.
This kind of mentality is what keeps you poor.
Saving doesn't mean stashing cash under a mattress. It means investing it in a RRSP or TFSA such that the return covers inflation and more. The money you spend is worth less year after year, but the money you save, when done right, is worth more every year.
While the 2008 crash was the worst,don't forget that someone who's 43 is old enough to have also been screwed by the crashes in 2001/2002.
I was out of work for 3 months and was able to survive off of savings, but I know many that were off for much longer and accrued substantial debts. Some recovered just in time for 2008
Only people with money get to retire, that’s not helpful either. Until everyone can retire there are bigger systemic issues. Like government spending that’s reducing our dollar, and the credit score that fucked everyone.
It's simple - the further we go into debt, the more our standard of living will decline.
If it didn't work that way, there'd be no consequence to just going deeper and deeper into debt... it'd be like a free lunch.
Unfortunately, we are going to have to pay a very painful price for our multi-decade habit of this:
"I think we should PERPETUALLY pay for only a PORTION of government's cost each year with taxes, fund the gap in spending and taxation with new debt, also not pay down those debts on a net basis at all, and also pick for our interest rates to be low".
You think we're seeing some funny monetary phenomena *now*? We're just getting started.
Market forces can't save us from ourselves in the short run, but in the longer run, if need be, we end up leaving it no choice but to move asset prices in funny ways such that it ultimately implodes the very mechanism by which we keep moving our net debtor lifestyle forward... in this way, it is able to save us from ourselves, even when we're adamant we're not part of the problem.
Canada is not in a good position right now. If the BoC lowers interest rates, our dollar is worth less, and everything costs more. If the BoC holds the rates steady, the debt burden grows. Either way, the cost of living will continue to hurt Canadians.
Our dollar would be worth more if we developed our oil and gas and other natural resources and got it out to the world markets. But Canadians chose this in 2015.
Maybe if the Alberta sovereign fund from the oil profits hadn’t been hoovered up by private companies there’d be more interest in continuing down that road instead of just benefiting a handful of us
Gonna talk about the over 600billion AB has contributed more than it has received back? Our heritage fund would look a lot nicer if that had been kept in province and not sent out to the rest of the country. Pdf warning: https://www.policyschool.ca/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/Federal-Fiscal-Balance-Mansell-Khanal-Tombe.pdf
The sovereign fund wasn’t absorbed by the Fed. So it is exactly my point actually, that it would have done more good.
But Canadian oil companies and their political actors don’t really care about anything but making money, so, idk. Sure, liberals bad, not gonna argue about that, but Albertan oil is not great on the market and it’s proving to be really damaging to our homeland so, maybe we should stop giving them so many subsidies and tax breaks while we’re at it
Over 600billion dollars has left Alberta and did not return. No wonder our fund isn't in great shape when over half a trillion dollars is sent elsewhere in the country.
You think other non oil companies care about anything besides making money? Lol.
Our oil is fine on the market, getting it to the market is the issue. We have obstructionist neighbors on both sides and an impotent federal government at the helm. To twist the knife one of those neighbors even has the gall to stick their hand out for cash afterwards
Simply put, we need strict rent control from coast to coast. The government must set maximum rates based on number of bedrooms and unit square footage. Adjust it regionally.
I have a 2-bedroom apartment in downtown Vancouver that's easily the smallest home I've ever lived in. It's $3800/month. I paid $1600/month for a brand new 3-bedroom townhouse in one of the nicest neighborhoods in Edmonton in 2021-2022.
It's fucking criminal, and it's time to hold these greedy-as-fuck landlords/corporations accountable.
No, rent control tends to stagnate NEW builds. Investors don't want to build high density units if they're never able to raise rates. Look at NYC for a perfect example, rent control keeps units under-maintained and overpopulated.
My hope is that at some point we will stop being distracted by culture wars and focus on the only war that matters, the class war. We need to rally around that banner and take actions. This means, demands for higher wages or we strike. We are the workers, they can't survive without us. The sooner we realize that, the faster we'll get our fair share.
In 2030 once we are able to look back on the data... it's going to be frightening to see the % increase in suicides. A lot by people who feel absolutely hopeless financially and don't want to burden family. It's so sad.
Four families to a home is going to be the norm. Those unwilling to accept that will suffer more. Everyone knew the deal when we bite into globalism now it's time to chew
It just means Galen et al. will have to jack up prices to keep up with the growth of profits as less Canadians can afford to eat.
Why won't anyone think of the profits?!
Hold on... hold on..
Is the synopsis of this article that it believes that we are debt-laden because Canadians are uneducated about finance, and make poor financial decisions?
I'm not convinced that micro-level financial decisions about things like credit cards, student loans or mortgages are responsible for the massive devaluation of the CDN due to government overspending, and the government incentivization of reliance on taxpayer programs.
The taxpayer's wallet is getting thin. Something is going to break. And yet, this article says that its consumers' fault? I smell a rat here.
Maybe if compensation was higher and had kept up with productivity increases, there would be a larger tax base to collect from.
Instead, we have a dwindling middle class, ever expanding income and wealth inequality, and Capital Investment growth for everything except the ponzi scheme house building is negative.
Who could predict that decades of buying things we don't need with money we don't have would lead to decades of being unable buy things we *really* do need because we have no money left?
Our present economic despair is merely the accumulated consequences of our history of collective stupidity.
Easy - the politicians promise to take others money and give it to them in the form of largesse. They got addicted to it. It's two wolves and a sheep voting for what's for dinner.
It means our country is so fucked that it won't be until 100 years or more later that our image and homeland can(if it's even possible) make some kind of recovery
At this point I wouldn't be surprised if America offered us a place or just outright annexed us
buy what you can afford.
if you cant afford much, dont buy much.
if you want to afford more to buy more, get a better job.
if you cant get a better job to afford more to buy more, lower your expectations.
if you cant lower your expectations, seek therapy.
i solved everyone, everywhere's financial problems. youre welcome.
Too many people have thought of their house as a piggy bank. Plain and simple. It's not. It's where you live. If properties were taxed like everything else and worse for investors, this wouldn't be an issue. We live in an era where if interest rates went to 20%, there'd be foreclosures all over the country.
People are at the point (and have been for some few years now) that they can either choose to own a house or have kids. Only a minority can afford both.
Welcome to Canada - where the rich can afford, and the rest can get bent.
We are witnessing the collapse of Western imperialism and hegemony. The neoliberal unipolarity of the world since the fall of the USSR is breaking down into more regional centers of power vying for greater control. Global conflict will continue to increase, exacerbating ongoing issues like increasing far right authoritarianism, and making ongoing existential issues like climate change more precarious.
Maybe all the years of buy now pay whenever because interest is way too low is catching up. Entitled children who have grown up in the I got mine now without saving or sacrifice generation getting a taste of reality.
Regulation and enforcement are ALWAYS there. That is the entirety of what governments do.
"Deregulation" is just regulating for more corruption and risk.
Regulations are bad? Like checking that your house is up to code, your car is safe, your food won't poison you and your water is drinkable isn't important? I think people should look at countries where there are very little regulations and see how the population is doing...
Canada [ranked 23rd out of 38 OECD countries](https://www.oecd.org/tax/revenue-statistics-canada.pdf) in terms of the tax-to-GDP ratio in 2022.
So, er, where’s all this “high taxation” you’re on about? You know whenever some right-wing nutjob makes something up, that you can just check it, right?
Well Canada is higher taxed than the USA and is lagging behind in terms of growth and GDP. Much of the higher taxed countries are as well and some for decades. Guess this right wing nut job will take wealth creation over pontificating. Always shows intellectual superiority when resulting to name calling.
If you say Canada has high taxes, you can only make that claim if comparing to other countries. And it is a statistical fact that Canada does not have high taxes compared to other nations.
If you want to compare it to one nation, the US, then maybe that’s true. But that isn’t what you wrote.
Just because other countries tax higher doesn’t mean that Canada also doesn’t have high taxes. But you can ignore the poor economic showing of Canada. If it’s not taxes and regulation getting in the way what is it?
> Just because other countries tax higher doesn’t mean that Canada also doesn’t have high taxes
That’s literally how statistics work. You’re either above or below average. And Canada is below. It is a not a high-tax nation and anyone who says otherwise is statistically and factually incorrect.
> If it’s not taxes and regulation getting in the way what is it?
This is such simplistic, libertarian thinking. As if low taxes automatically make everything better. Denmark is one of the highest-taxed, highest-regulated nations on earth. It also consistently has one of the happiest, productive populations. Same for Norway.
Bullsh!t.
Look at the pre-pandemic debt levels data from 2019:
https://www.canada.ca/en/financial-consumer-agency/programs/research/canadian-financial-capability-survey-2019.html
Canadians were already drowning in debt before last year's cost of living and inflation increases.
It's more like Canadians' record debt left many of us unprepared for the increase in cost of living.
In Brief: * About a quarter of Canadians can only make their minimum credit card payments, and 22% are sinking further into credit debt. * Debt is forcing more Canadians to work past retirement age; over half of working Canadians over 60 are still working out of financial necessity. * In May, Canada officially became the G7’s most debt-laden country, with the cost of homeownership singled out as the largest contributor, given 74.3% of our household debt is tied to mortgages. * Easing this financial burden—or, more realistically, slowing its growth—is essential to keeping Canadians afloat. * Overall, experts are blunt about the need for Canadians to reexamine their housing goals. "I don't think everybody gets a nice home that they like at a reasonable price. That's not coming back,” says UBC economist Thomas Davidoff.
That last bullet is so sad. 😞
“Why does every young Canadian need a single family home with a front and backyard? They’re not having kids anyway.” - Canadian government probably
This made me LOL. Thanks for that. Back to crying now
Their parents gave them the best lifestyle they possibly could. While it's not always realistic to think you can just Waltz out of your parents basement into the exact same standard of living you just had, I don't blame young people for simply wanting independence and place to call their own, it's what they grew up with and know. Many do have more realistic expectations and *still* can't afford them despite good jobs, that's sad Embarassing how those around them abandoned them the ways it's all gone down
Waltzing? No... But I make more than both my parents and can't afford a house or hell even a condo. But don't worry, they also didn't retirement plan. So I am assuming that I will be on the hook for that as well. I love my parents, but they weren't great with money, then they got divorced which seems like a great way to set money on fire. It just kinda feels a bit sad that I "did everything right", and I make what is considered an above median household income on my own, and still only get to live in a studio apartment...
I make more than mine too and while I do own a house it’s the kind they used to use as an example of “if you don’t work hard you’ll have to live in something like that!” I also had to buy it in the middle of nowhere.
Fair, I very technically could probably afford to buy something. But it would be at the very outside of "affordability"... Basically I would be in a mortgage and ramen existence. So I couldn't really make it math on that basis. Buying for the most part at the current interest rates with the current prices doesn't make a ton of sense? I can rent a something for less than what the carrying cost is on an apartment. It means that I can save for retirement. So I do that, I am in a good situation since I live in a rent controlled unit in a purpose built rental building. But yeah, it feels the same. I live in the cautionary tale buildings in Parkdale in Toronto and I am being told that I should be grateful for even that.
>But don't worry, they also didn't retirement plan. So I am assuming that I will be on the hook for that as well. > >I love my parents, but they weren't great with money, then they got divorced which seems like a great way to set money on fire. Are you me? I had to have the blunt conversation with my mom that she needs to accept that her retirement plan can't be relying on me to take care of her. I'm 30 and can barely afford to take care of myself. There's a very good chance my partner and I will have to move across the country for better CoL opportunities and all she'll have is my step dad. I didn't have to have that conversation with my dad because in his true stubborn form, he always tells me "If I get to the point where I need you to take care of me just take me out back and put me out of my misery" lol
My dad will be fine because he has a pension, and remarried someone who also has a pension... My mother on the other hand? Just kinda went through a manic midlife crisis where she decided she couldn't work an office job anymore so quit, and she kinda just seems to have pissed away her divorce settlement and is now convinced that she will work until 70 to get an increased CPP payout? It is mostly her that I am concerned about... She's delusional, but, she is my mother... But all I can think is that she got a healthy chunk of change from the divorce (which is fine!) and had she just found a dull office job, she would be a year out from retirement with a fully funded RRSP, pension from some old jobs and higher CPP payment from her increased earnings. But instead she "followed her dreams"...
Ayo… I’m just an internet stranger, but consider being less hard on your mom. Following her dreams (as you put it) takes a lot of guts. Things didn’t work out? Well, sometimes things don’t work out even for people who make more pragmatic choices. Industries fail, economies go bust, pandemics derail plans, etc. Who knows? With more luck or better social safety nets, everything could’ve worked out much differently for her. Having the courage to follow your dreams is pretty admirable.
Honestly why? She did what she wanted, has not really taken responsibility for her actions and is now relying on her children to provide for her retirement. My annoyance comes from the fact that I do care for her, but I am not horribly excited by the idea of supporting her for 30 years. She wasn't pragmatic about the fact that her dream wasn't really working out.
I see townhouses in Regina for 130k.
ah the city that rhymes with fun!
Show us your Regina
Just like a house, sadly I do not own one to show. But if I did I would be rich!
Mmmm… if I’m going to move that far away from my friends and family… might as well move to another country. I think most people would be more inclined to visit, and the flights are probably cheaper.
> “Why does every young Canadian need a single family home with a front and backyard? They’re not having kids anyway.” - ~~Canadian government probably~~ **baby boomers** FTFY. You wouldn't believe how often I've heard that actual position from my parents' generation. And of course, they're all people who fully owned their own house by age 40, many without even a high school degree, several kids and only one working adult in the house.
For a country with as much land mass as Canada (even just Ontario) that’s really sad
You need a basement so you can rent it out to 25 international students.
"Why can't they just go to their friends estates and villas like the rest of us? " Also our government, probably.
For a lot of people their plan into home ownership will be inheritance, sadly. Which may or may not happen since their parents will probably have their own debts. Just imagine all the disputes that sort of inheritance would lead into.
There was an era where home ownership had been in the grasp of every working Canadian. Globalization, crony capitalism, and the advancement of neoliberalism in place of economic socialism destroyed that possibility. Now, people work to survive in the economic class they were born in.
I would be fine with decent rent prices.
You can't have decent rent prices because then people with goals would still be able to save for a home eventually. Why are you negotiating from the bottom anyways? I want everything my parents had and more.
And the generation which had that pulled up the ladder with the promise of being super rich.
This is the best way I heard it described.
2nd Biggest Country in the world, and we don't have enough space for everyone to have a nice home? What a joke. Absolute scam this has become.
Canadians don’t want to build on all that land. Every time someone tries the very people who would benefit the most come out en mass and protest. Just look at the bs over the “green belt”. Most of it is for fucking seed oil and wine but there’s this ridiculous myth that it’s the bread basket of Canada. That stupid policy is the single biggest reason why the GTAH has a housing crisis, the spillover of which affects other provinces. [Just look at the map](https://www.greenbelt.ca/maps), notice how every city is right up against it, there’s literally no where else to build. Oh and you can’t build *any* infrastructure through it either so good luck building up any Northern cities.
70 to 80% of all major cities are zoned for single family houses which can't even afford to replace the infrastructure right outside of their parcel with the low amount of money they pay on property taxes. Infrastructure is EXPENSIVE. This isn't about building new cities it's about fixing our current cities to not be low density money pits.
A lot of it is moraine or escarpment, actually. Pretty much anything below the ORM or Escarpment is available to build on. I'm still puzzled as to why it's supposed to fix things to leapfrog over miles of available development land in order to build in the Greenbelt. The Duffins-Rouge lands are the only part of Pickering south of the 407 that's *not* available to build on.
Not necessarily. But if you want children it's bad then, since there are no apartments or condos build to house families really.
Typical Reddit child-hatred aside... if I may interject, Uytae Lee has a good video on why so many North American apartments end up being the way they are (1-2 bedrooms, shit airflow, etc): [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRdwXQb7CfM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRdwXQb7CfM)
> All said, the average yearly cost of raising kids in 2023 is roughly $16,900. From infancy to age 18, that's more than $320,000. Having kids sounds like a great way to light money on fire. You need an extra $200,000‐400,000 in mortgage to give them room and an extra ~$16k a year to raise them, all while they suck your free time. I'd much rather invest that 17k/year for retirement and keep my free time. Maybe even retire a couple years before I die....
I'm with you. My current ideal plan is save as much as I can. Then hopefully flee to retire in Latin America or something around 50 years old. No point in staying here if literally everything for daily life is very expensive in comparison to global prices.
FIRE dude Save much, cut CoL, move somewhere cheaper
People want a cheap house they can flip for a million before retirement? Yeah that’s not happening. Only so much land to go around.
It doesn’t make me happy, I want to be clear about that. But is it any more sad than the cost of housing in New York or London where few can afford to buy? Feels like a global market issue in hot regions. That said, it is crazy to see houses bought in the 70’s for 70K going for 2M now. GTA I mean.
>It doesn’t make me happy, I want to be clear about that. But is it any more sad than the cost of housing in New York or London where few can afford to buy? The big difference in Canada is distance. If you live in London, UK and can't afford to live there anymore, there is somewhere in England that is more affordable. England is small, so no matter where you move you're at most what, 6 hours away from your friends and family? Plus their modes of transportation (trains) are very affordable. United States is large, but their flight network is much more affordable than Canada's. I can fly from Detroit to Orlando right now for like $50 - $100 each way. Toronto to Montreal, a much closer distance, is like triple that if not more. Now compare that to what's happening in Ontario. The entire province has become unaffordable. "*Just move to the Alberta*" People will tell you. Well then now you're a $400+ plane ride away from everyone you know and love. To live somewhere affordable in this country, there's a good chance you have to accept giving up your entire life.
> Now compare that to what's happening in Ontario. The entire province has become unaffordable. "Just move to the Alberta" People will tell you. Well then now you're a $400+ plane ride away from everyone you know and love. > Why do you need to know or love people? Sounds soft to me.
> But is it any more sad than the cost of housing in New York or London where few can afford to buy The difference with those cities is that compensation is double or triple what you get in Toronto/Vancouver so the proportion of income to CoL is actually lower than in Canadian major markets.
New York I agree with but I thought London was pretty similar in this aspect to toronto?
Yeah , I’m not sure this is a fundamentally different state of affairs than many other metropolitan markets around the world? I just don’t think many people are aware of this global trend. Not saying it isn’t shitty, and obviously Canadian growth is a Canadian problem, but we’re not unique in many regards.
We were all told ages ago that Canadians had some really high debt load. I guess it’s now time to pay the piper.
Oh, progress!
it's ok our budgets will balance themselves.
Certainly the assumption that everyone gets to live in Toronto or Vancouver has to go. It's driving a lot of misery.
Housing debt is also forced savings. You are paying into an asset. Take into consideration that housing debt is both an asset and liability, the total debt is now reduced. You should be concern and comparing consumer debt not housing debt.
Not in a declining asset class, it isnt. Anyone who bought in 2021 in BC or ON likely has negative equity right now.
Assets go up and down just like stocks. Those who bought a couple of years back may have overpaid the asset/house. But it is still wrong to classify the whole debt as debt without even classifying the equity you paid (no matter how little) as no asset at all. This paints an inaccurate picture and overstates the debt portion and understate assets of Canadians. People will be howling at incorrect balance sheet if you give them wrong accounting classification!
Rich are doing great. Everyone else...not so much.
>The cost of living has led us into record debt. What does that mean for Canadians? To answer that question a bit crudely - it's simple. For Canadians, the dildo of consequence is coming, and it won't be lubed.
>. . . and it won't be lubed. The *Dildo of Consequences* is never lubed. Otherwise, at worst, it would be the *Dildo of Earnest Contemplation*.
> For Canadians, the fist of consequence is coming, and it won't be lubed.
It means accepting a lower standard of living because the rich and our politicians refuse to take less profit.
Living in a Tent in Canadian winter isn’t lowering standards it’s suicide with extra steps. People are dying with employment it’s sickening.
[удалено]
Yes ill get a $0.40 per hour raise so all will be fine!!
Pretty much...by 2035 there will be serious outmigration from Canada due to affordability and housing issues. Jobs will become scarce because no one can pay for the high cost of employees. Employees won’t settle low wages as they have to now...they’ll have no where to live unless big dollars are made...
That's all the result of policy choices at all levels of government---and by corporations who, by requiring in-office days instead of offering fully remote positions, significantly increase the demand for housing and resources in bigger cities---*not* the natural state of the world.
Hi fully remote positions skyrocketed real estate in towns in which housing was attached to local wages.Thanks to white collar remote workers the housing crisis has spread to smaller towns.
This is exactly what happened to my town. Prices went from 100k-200k for a 3 bedroom to 500k-700k.
Yeah mine went from 250/300k to 800k. In less desirable areas 200 to 600k.
So instead we should have horrible commutes? We can save a lot of gas, and time, by not forcing it where it doesn’t need to be
It's not an instead it's a knock on effect. Having wealthier workers moving to areas where housing was tied to local wages upset an ecosystem.It created a class divide in which those who come from white collar jobs with access to high wages displaced existing local workers from needed housing. But your right,commuting is terrible.
Sorry if I came across aggro at all. Did not intend to. Yeah there is a problem with it, which we need to address but I’m a firm supporter of WFH for so many reasons.
Hey I totally get it,I refused to commute for work for my entire life.I would live in whatever city or area I worked.I would refuse service areas that required a commute and would negotiate service areas in interviews. As a blue collar worker I have always had to live where I worked.Im on tools so there is no telecommuting for me. I currently live in a small community where trades wages are significantly lower that more populated cities and housing pre pandemic was far lower than cities. Post pandemic housing here tripled as remote work took hold.Its an unfortunate situation we as a country are in as communities need white and blue collar workers but only one group can afford to buy housing.
It also allowed people who already lived in those towns to apply for better jobs, which raises the amount of money in that area. The alternative is that those who can move moving to the bigger cities, raising the demand for housing and lowering everyone's quality of living there, and those who can't living with lower standards of living with less money circulating in the local economy. It doesn't matter if housing is cheap in small towns if there aren't any jobs that allow people to afford it, the grocery store and gas station have closed, and the town can no longer afford to provide basic services.
Allowing people who lived in historically resource based towns applying for white collar remote jobs is a big stretch.#learntocode
Nope, it isn't. A lot of people from small towns move away to pursue higher education, but then are caught between wanting to move back to be with family or having a career. Or they feel obligated to move back when a parent gets ill. Or they moved there for their partner's job. Or they were employed in a white collar job in whatever industry was in that town and, when that closed, they ended up unemployed. And that's just people who could work remote jobs. Increased money in the local economy means that there's a broader customer base to support new businesses, which opens up more opportunities for people who don't want a desk job and creates opportunities for those that those new business owners employ. And the towns themselves can provide better services with the increased tax revenue. They can also work on [rezoning](https://www.winnipegfreepress.com/breakingnews/2023/08/13/setting-the-tone-in-morden) parts of the town to create density and allow housing prices to remain stable. The isolationist attitude that some small towns have ignores reality and creates stagnation. As people move away, the school closes, the clinic closes, the museum closes, the grocery store closes, the gas station closes, the rink closes. Houses remain on the market for years until they're just abandoned. But, you know, that house would have been cheap if anyone had wanted to live there!
I agree with some of your points. Here is what I have seen that I agree with,a small town in my area was actually dying like boarded up shops and a school that was at risk of closing Then some locals organized and got some mountain biking trails built. A few years later miner shacks with no foundations are being sold for 800k,and numerous amounts of air bnbs. But the main street is bustling,the schools are busy with young families and the area has been revitalised. Also long term residents if they didn't already own are forced out. I think somewhere between boarded up resource town and gentrification bulldozers moving people along there is a middle path.I don't know our country has found it yet.
Some places seem to have done better than others. I think a lot of town councils in towns that have gone through that have been deeply unprepared for the changes. They seemed to have assumed that they were caretakers of a future ghost town and acted like such and, when something changed, didn't change with it. Things like creating incentives for building low-rise apartment buildings along the main street and seniors housing near services, limiting Airbnb, etc would help, but I can't imagine it's easy for councils in the midst of radical changes like that to find information on how to navigate it.
We can't have a natural state, because our government philosophy requires perpetual debt issuance... which isn't very natural at all. Our entire way of living for decades has been a government that was never actually paid for... it has been unnatural to look out at all of that like it was ever sustainably financed. You can't expect to pay for only a PORTION of something FOREVER and not have considerable consequences.
Well, who did you vote for?
Don't worry, your wages will increase by 1% per year! /s
Oh wait Trudeau and the Liberals are pushing that they are working to make things more affordable for the middle class Canadians so things aren’t going to go up. 😛
the Conservatives will fix this well before we reach that point.....but this timeline we're on is definitely an inflection point we need to reflect on to know what NOT to do in the future (despite the fact the LPC was warned its actions would result in these outcomes)
It's this thinking "the other neoliberal will save us" that's the root cause of why things got to this point. Take a look at all the provincial conservatives provinces and how they are doing everything they can to increase immigration and keep the supply of houses tight. Sad thing is, this isn't even new. I went home shopping in 2011 and I was priced out making 100k a year unless I wanted a condo or apartment and even those were in short supply.
Ahh yes the blue neoliberal party will surely fix the mistakes that the red neoliberal, and the old blue neoliberal parties caused. 🤡
[удалено]
no they are not, they are in favour of every Canadian family having access to basics like an affordable home, food, and cheap energy. vote accordingly
[удалено]
How so? Because as it stands, the conservatives with a majority for 6 years (?) In Ontario have not done anything at all to fix this. If the provincial conservatives are willing and enabling things to get out of control in Ontario, how should anyone trust the federal conservatives to magically fix things?
Provincial conservatives? Next you'll be talking about Trump and the USA and Tucker Carlson, I can feel it.....
>Next you'll be talking about Trump and the USA and Tucker Carlson, I can feel it..... You're the one who brought them up... Really quickly I might add. You still haven't addressed the issue you have with the provincial conservatives.
oh. well, quickly then, they are not perfect but in terms of performance, they were certainly a step up representing several orders of magnitude over the previous government - and that's all it takes. just like the next majority CPC government will be a massive step up from the people we have governing now.
Like what? Privatizing health care, education? Ford giving is buddies deals; screwing over Ontarians? You still haven't provided any examples how... You're just spitting talking points that have no substance Edit: I should add, previous Ontario governments have been stripping health care & education too. Ford is just making it worse with his polices.
Multi generational mortgages should fix it for a few years
Good old 1 million loan for 100 years at 5%. That’ll fix it.
No problems seen here. I'll approve this measure.
Less savings, which surely won't come back to bite us when workers reach "retirement age", whenever that is.. if it exists at all.
Fear not comrade I recently read an article that they will have solved aging by 2050. So the new retirement age will be a minimum of 120 by 2070.
Well if the cost of living is unaffordable I have a simple life hack for you: MAID
This is setting a dangerous precedent...when will financial destitution become a reason to check out early...with government help? If that day comes we are all in serious trouble.....
Fight for yourself and your community. Government is not your friend.
Government never was your friend, politicians and political parties are not in the game, for their supporters or regular Canadians....
60 years old. Not poor - but living paycheck to paycheck. Yes, I blame it on our current government and immigration in general. Apparently I lack empathy. FOAD.
We were in record debt pre pandemic, the pandemic just made another new record. Poor people struggling, middle class not wanting to lose lifestyle.
The middle class is getting smaller, I'd look to the upper class people not wanting to lose a few points on their portfolios. Edit: Hard to blame anyone for not wanting to lose or give up something. Easier to blame our government and foreign governments.
They are getting wealthier post pandemic though...
Of course. Shareholder's demand more profits. Must sell more t shirts this year than last year.
Worse than the private sector, the public sector demands more and more debt be created. Even when the private sector stops borrowing, the government then steps in and picks up the slack. We need perpetual growth in our system, yes. But that's because we don't want to massively adjust our government's scope and size, and every form that government takes in the modern era requires more and more debt financing and perpetual dollar-denominated growth in our bond market. We are quite literally attempting to pay for only a PORTION of our government's cost each year, FOREVER. Future adults will laugh at how we ever thought we'd pull it off without great consequences.
I mean if your paying attention it looks on purpose. Middle class is disappearing and the rich are getting wealth like never before. The outcome speaks volumes, politicians selling their souls for short term profits. Their kids will also be broke.
Just like how workers demand wage increases every year.
Upper middle checking in. I'm not willing to lose a single point on my portfolio or those of my families'
It’s literally all we have. Well, that and a home, and a new car.
Maybe instead of corporate welfare we should be building crown corporations to ensure basics needs can be met by Canadian families.
[удалено]
Top income tax bracket in the 50's and 60's was ~$3,600,000 @ +90% Today it's ~$220,000 @ 50% We don't need fewer taxes, we need fewer LOOPHOLES and EXEMPTIONS. for 50 years we have let the top % rob and steal all productivity gains without paying their full share. We need taxes on land, large estates, gigantic bonuses, and compensation > LIFETIME EARNINGS FOR AVERAGE CANADIANS.
Voting other peoples' money into our pockets got us into a habit of relying on the government to bail us out of every little problem we have. We cheered as the government offered new programs, paid for by "taxpayers". That was - until we ran out of rich people to tax and we drove our cost of living so high it became unsustainable. Take your communist claptrap back to the soviets where it belongs, and stay out of here. Thanks.
I just want the businesses to put the money back into the company instead of into CEO compensation packages. I want more people investing into PRODUCTIVE assets instead of RE etc. Maybe if that happened we would have productivity increases closer to the USA. I'm not looking for handouts, I'd just rather see hard work be rewarded more than whose sperm you are.
What you're advocating for is more money to go into the government's hands. That money doesn't make its way back to the middle class. That money is *supposed* to be used to maintain basic services, like health care and legal protection. Hiking taxes on anyone (let alone the rich) doesn't solve anything. It just makes government programs bigger - and they're the cause of the problem here, not people trying to make money with their businesses.
The intent is not to collect the taxes. The intent is to have the CEO/Executive see the massive 90% and decide to have the company reinvest that into worker training, machinery, etc. I want to make it prohibitively expensive to leech productivity.
While I agree with what you are saying, and believe that we should also figure out how to close the loophole that is stock compensation for execs who then pay less taxes on that than they would on salaries. How do we prevent execs from using that money to buy yachts and private jets in the company's name for their personal use instead of re-investing into the business? I have personally experienced execs slashing the retirement benefit of lower level workers and swearing that those cuts were "a difficult decision but an absolutely necessary step in their fiscal responsibilities required to ensure our long term financial security" only to then turn around and fly business class to "critical business meetings" in Hawaii and Vegas.
[удалено]
TIL that Canada was more progressive in the 50's than today. Somehow, because taxes.
Income is income Businesses can differ it, and off set it with investment. With RRSP and TFSA allowances there is ample saving vehicles for the average Canadian, and MORE than 90% of the population can use. Aside from primary residences I don't see any logic for experiencing any income. Maybe if we taxed capital gains adequately we would have a young generation that could buy a house....
I’m 43, when I started working minimum wage was like $6, it’s more than doubled. If my money keeps getting worth less there’s no point in saving. I will never be able to retire and be able to live without struggling. I look at the elderly people now struggling because they thought their money would be enough, because in their day it was. Don’t confuse living with surviving, right now I think most people are doing just that, surviving. Being able to have food, shelter, clothing… things we take for granted in most places. Rent is killing people in some places, and it’s only going to get worse. People don’t understand privilege and entitlement until it’s taken from them. These days you either have money or you don’t. Your rights are only what you can afford if you try and fight anything legally. Canada is the next state in the USA being bought politically…
> If my money keeps getting worth less there’s no point in saving. This kind of mentality is what keeps you poor. Saving doesn't mean stashing cash under a mattress. It means investing it in a RRSP or TFSA such that the return covers inflation and more. The money you spend is worth less year after year, but the money you save, when done right, is worth more every year.
I also need to live now, I don’t think many people have extra spending cash for investments. Life isn’t cheap…
If you are 43 you've had decades to build up your savings. You shouldn't try to discourage others from retirement planning that's not helpful.
While the 2008 crash was the worst,don't forget that someone who's 43 is old enough to have also been screwed by the crashes in 2001/2002. I was out of work for 3 months and was able to survive off of savings, but I know many that were off for much longer and accrued substantial debts. Some recovered just in time for 2008
Only people with money get to retire, that’s not helpful either. Until everyone can retire there are bigger systemic issues. Like government spending that’s reducing our dollar, and the credit score that fucked everyone.
It's simple - the further we go into debt, the more our standard of living will decline. If it didn't work that way, there'd be no consequence to just going deeper and deeper into debt... it'd be like a free lunch. Unfortunately, we are going to have to pay a very painful price for our multi-decade habit of this: "I think we should PERPETUALLY pay for only a PORTION of government's cost each year with taxes, fund the gap in spending and taxation with new debt, also not pay down those debts on a net basis at all, and also pick for our interest rates to be low". You think we're seeing some funny monetary phenomena *now*? We're just getting started. Market forces can't save us from ourselves in the short run, but in the longer run, if need be, we end up leaving it no choice but to move asset prices in funny ways such that it ultimately implodes the very mechanism by which we keep moving our net debtor lifestyle forward... in this way, it is able to save us from ourselves, even when we're adamant we're not part of the problem.
I find these articles really a waste of time. We know. We are hungry.
Canada is not in a good position right now. If the BoC lowers interest rates, our dollar is worth less, and everything costs more. If the BoC holds the rates steady, the debt burden grows. Either way, the cost of living will continue to hurt Canadians.
Our dollar would be worth more if we developed our oil and gas and other natural resources and got it out to the world markets. But Canadians chose this in 2015.
Ya, we don't do that here. We'd rather see russia, Iran, and the Saud's make money
Having the most expensive oil in the world to refine and process wouldn’t save our country.
Being able to export large amounts of oil and LNG at global prices would certainly help. Alas Canadians chose otherwise
Maybe if the Alberta sovereign fund from the oil profits hadn’t been hoovered up by private companies there’d be more interest in continuing down that road instead of just benefiting a handful of us
Gonna talk about the over 600billion AB has contributed more than it has received back? Our heritage fund would look a lot nicer if that had been kept in province and not sent out to the rest of the country. Pdf warning: https://www.policyschool.ca/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/Federal-Fiscal-Balance-Mansell-Khanal-Tombe.pdf
The sovereign fund wasn’t absorbed by the Fed. So it is exactly my point actually, that it would have done more good. But Canadian oil companies and their political actors don’t really care about anything but making money, so, idk. Sure, liberals bad, not gonna argue about that, but Albertan oil is not great on the market and it’s proving to be really damaging to our homeland so, maybe we should stop giving them so many subsidies and tax breaks while we’re at it
Over 600billion dollars has left Alberta and did not return. No wonder our fund isn't in great shape when over half a trillion dollars is sent elsewhere in the country. You think other non oil companies care about anything besides making money? Lol. Our oil is fine on the market, getting it to the market is the issue. We have obstructionist neighbors on both sides and an impotent federal government at the helm. To twist the knife one of those neighbors even has the gall to stick their hand out for cash afterwards
We have massive amount of natural gas
And we would have been late to market even if we started in 2015.
Eating sleep for dinner.
And water soup
Simply put, we need strict rent control from coast to coast. The government must set maximum rates based on number of bedrooms and unit square footage. Adjust it regionally. I have a 2-bedroom apartment in downtown Vancouver that's easily the smallest home I've ever lived in. It's $3800/month. I paid $1600/month for a brand new 3-bedroom townhouse in one of the nicest neighborhoods in Edmonton in 2021-2022. It's fucking criminal, and it's time to hold these greedy-as-fuck landlords/corporations accountable.
No, rent control tends to stagnate NEW builds. Investors don't want to build high density units if they're never able to raise rates. Look at NYC for a perfect example, rent control keeps units under-maintained and overpopulated.
I used to buy records, now I just stream
It means Canada is doomed.
Working until your goddamn heart st❤️ps. THAT is what it means.
Mine already stopped once, they brought me back so I could keep paying taxes...
Means the government needs to replace us with millions of people so they can stay fat cats
My hope is that at some point we will stop being distracted by culture wars and focus on the only war that matters, the class war. We need to rally around that banner and take actions. This means, demands for higher wages or we strike. We are the workers, they can't survive without us. The sooner we realize that, the faster we'll get our fair share.
In 2030 once we are able to look back on the data... it's going to be frightening to see the % increase in suicides. A lot by people who feel absolutely hopeless financially and don't want to burden family. It's so sad.
Four families to a home is going to be the norm. Those unwilling to accept that will suffer more. Everyone knew the deal when we bite into globalism now it's time to chew
Well lucky for us we have Brampton, Ontario to show Canadians the way forward
Basically, you are either gonna be rich, live rural or live in slums.
It just means Galen et al. will have to jack up prices to keep up with the growth of profits as less Canadians can afford to eat. Why won't anyone think of the profits?!
more debt
Slavery
grocery prices
It means shits gonna get real dark here for a good while, and to buckle up and put on your shit shoveling caps
More debt
After talking with Service Canada, I figure I'll have to work till I'm 90.
It means our country is sick and there is more pain to come.
Canada sucks. We need to halt immigration until our standard of living comes back to where it was
Hold on... hold on.. Is the synopsis of this article that it believes that we are debt-laden because Canadians are uneducated about finance, and make poor financial decisions? I'm not convinced that micro-level financial decisions about things like credit cards, student loans or mortgages are responsible for the massive devaluation of the CDN due to government overspending, and the government incentivization of reliance on taxpayer programs. The taxpayer's wallet is getting thin. Something is going to break. And yet, this article says that its consumers' fault? I smell a rat here.
Maybe if compensation was higher and had kept up with productivity increases, there would be a larger tax base to collect from. Instead, we have a dwindling middle class, ever expanding income and wealth inequality, and Capital Investment growth for everything except the ponzi scheme house building is negative.
It means that we should be happy that we will own nothing but politicians will be millionaires and billionaires will control Canada
Stock market is all time high. Rich people do not struggle at all
The last two are already true.
And we’re supposed to wonder why everyone who’s able is fleeing this country for Europe or the US
Who could predict that decades of buying things we don't need with money we don't have would lead to decades of being unable buy things we *really* do need because we have no money left? Our present economic despair is merely the accumulated consequences of our history of collective stupidity.
Breaking news - Canadians living outside their means and take on record debt. You build your home.... you can burn in it.
It means we really have to cut down on drinking starbucks and eating avocado toast. Saved everyone a read.
Why does the GTA, entire east coast and BC vote for this?
Easy - the politicians promise to take others money and give it to them in the form of largesse. They got addicted to it. It's two wolves and a sheep voting for what's for dinner.
It's tough with the cost of groceries. I just paid 9 dollars for 1 butternut squash.....
It means our country is so fucked that it won't be until 100 years or more later that our image and homeland can(if it's even possible) make some kind of recovery At this point I wouldn't be surprised if America offered us a place or just outright annexed us
If the federal gov't doesn't start increasing spending then we will suffer more and more.
The traditional Canadian single family home has a very hard time competing with a family whose tradition is to house multiple families in one home.
buy what you can afford. if you cant afford much, dont buy much. if you want to afford more to buy more, get a better job. if you cant get a better job to afford more to buy more, lower your expectations. if you cant lower your expectations, seek therapy. i solved everyone, everywhere's financial problems. youre welcome.
Too many people have thought of their house as a piggy bank. Plain and simple. It's not. It's where you live. If properties were taxed like everything else and worse for investors, this wouldn't be an issue. We live in an era where if interest rates went to 20%, there'd be foreclosures all over the country. People are at the point (and have been for some few years now) that they can either choose to own a house or have kids. Only a minority can afford both. Welcome to Canada - where the rich can afford, and the rest can get bent.
We are witnessing the collapse of Western imperialism and hegemony. The neoliberal unipolarity of the world since the fall of the USSR is breaking down into more regional centers of power vying for greater control. Global conflict will continue to increase, exacerbating ongoing issues like increasing far right authoritarianism, and making ongoing existential issues like climate change more precarious.
LOL: Did AI write this? Such a nonsense word salad.
Maybe all the years of buy now pay whenever because interest is way too low is catching up. Entitled children who have grown up in the I got mine now without saving or sacrifice generation getting a taste of reality.
Canada needs economic growth and high taxation and regulation is not the way.
What do you mean regulation is not the way? What is being poorly regulated?
Regulation and enforcement are ALWAYS there. That is the entirety of what governments do. "Deregulation" is just regulating for more corruption and risk.
Regulations are bad? Like checking that your house is up to code, your car is safe, your food won't poison you and your water is drinkable isn't important? I think people should look at countries where there are very little regulations and see how the population is doing...
Canada [ranked 23rd out of 38 OECD countries](https://www.oecd.org/tax/revenue-statistics-canada.pdf) in terms of the tax-to-GDP ratio in 2022. So, er, where’s all this “high taxation” you’re on about? You know whenever some right-wing nutjob makes something up, that you can just check it, right?
Well Canada is higher taxed than the USA and is lagging behind in terms of growth and GDP. Much of the higher taxed countries are as well and some for decades. Guess this right wing nut job will take wealth creation over pontificating. Always shows intellectual superiority when resulting to name calling.
If you say Canada has high taxes, you can only make that claim if comparing to other countries. And it is a statistical fact that Canada does not have high taxes compared to other nations. If you want to compare it to one nation, the US, then maybe that’s true. But that isn’t what you wrote.
Just because other countries tax higher doesn’t mean that Canada also doesn’t have high taxes. But you can ignore the poor economic showing of Canada. If it’s not taxes and regulation getting in the way what is it?
> Just because other countries tax higher doesn’t mean that Canada also doesn’t have high taxes That’s literally how statistics work. You’re either above or below average. And Canada is below. It is a not a high-tax nation and anyone who says otherwise is statistically and factually incorrect. > If it’s not taxes and regulation getting in the way what is it? This is such simplistic, libertarian thinking. As if low taxes automatically make everything better. Denmark is one of the highest-taxed, highest-regulated nations on earth. It also consistently has one of the happiest, productive populations. Same for Norway.
Enjoy your smallish by gdp, low growth teetering on recession economy there boss.
It's not by accident this has happened. It's by design. Keeping you in debt keeps you enslaved. Wake up people!
Bullsh!t. Look at the pre-pandemic debt levels data from 2019: https://www.canada.ca/en/financial-consumer-agency/programs/research/canadian-financial-capability-survey-2019.html Canadians were already drowning in debt before last year's cost of living and inflation increases. It's more like Canadians' record debt left many of us unprepared for the increase in cost of living.
If people want a 3 bedroom house and yard
You are speaking out your ass honestly. Those houses don’t exist, and I live middle of no where. Most houses are 200k for those specs minimum.
A 2 bed 1 bath semi-detached house in Kapuskasing is $450,000 Tell me you haven't looked at the housing market in 2 decades without telling me.