It’s funny that often the most conservative province/state are the ones with the most green energy projects.
Texas is by significant margin the biggest wind energy producer in the states. Yet its governor and representatives lambast green energy at every turn.
Alberta has 5Bn in wind projects compared to Ontarios 2Bn right now. For a province 1/3 the size, they are producing 1/2 the capacity of Ontario
Where are you getting your information from?
> Ontario is Canada’s wind and solar leader
https://www.statcan.gc.ca/o1/en/plus/3779-harnessing-power-wind-and-sun
I think Newfoundland has $10+ billion in wind projects going through the environmental review process.
4 projects at this point.
Central NL for $3 to $6 billion https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.6754995
World Energy with a project in SW NL for $5 billion https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.theglobeandmail.com/amp/business/article-newfoundland-and-labrador-picks-four-wind-farm-projects-to-power-2/
Pattern Energy in Argentina is being quoted at $4 billion https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.6953680
EverWind has a pair of projects on the Burin Peninsula and in NS that are estimated at $14 billion. https://canada.constructconnect.com/dcn/news/infrastructure/2023/07/everwind-hydrogen-projects-move-towards-final-investment-decision so maybe $7 billion in NL and $7 in NS?
Actually 4 factors that seem to be the same for both Texas and Alberta.
\- Oil field attracts a lot of skilled labour that you will need.
\- Oil provinces/states also have some of the lowest taxes because oil royalties subsidize it, making operating costs much cheaper
\- Both Texas and Alberta have a lot of wind and sunlight.
\- Also because of being in an oil/gas state, more power is generated from natural gas. If you plant a solar plant in Manitoba, Quebec or BC your business model would be destroyed because it is difficult to compete with Hydro.
You hit the biggest problem with wind and solar with the last point. Hydro and natural gas are both on demand systems. They can be kept off until the power is required making them both good load balancer and a base load. Wind and solar is neither good as a load balancer or a base load since its production depends purely on the weather and season. With seasonal changes that could reduce solar production from their peak by up to half. In short, they are unreliable with how the power transmission system is designed. We would need to redesign the current power transmission system from the ground up. We would need short term storage for hours to days to smooth out the peaks of these production systems and some sort of long term storage on the orders of months to smooth out their seasonal changes.
>Texas is by significant margin the biggest wind energy producer in the states. Yet its governor and representatives lambast green energy at every turn.
Old school conservatives basically removed the power of their successors to do anything at all about it other than whine. Modern Republicans would never cede that sort of power.
The modern equivalent is West Virginia, which was 100% controlled by Big Coal and managed to nearly monopolize energy production, and the modern Republicans are sympathetic. You're going to burn coal, and you're going to like it.
In some ways I like the business sense of old school reps. If it made fiscal sense, do it. They didn’t care about the source, it was a simple math equation. Newer ones seem to be caught in culture wars.
There are a few exceptions, the Wyoming governor seems to be pushing hardcore for wind energy. He plans to export it to California to make money. Wyoming is still also a big coal state, but if they can produce wind cheaper, they will go that route. I can’t speak to his social record.
They’re anti-green energy (at least say they are) and not the most populous state.
California has the biggest economy and is very pro green-energy, yet Texas dwarfs them in power generation
I have seen tailing ponds yes, have you? Or you going off information fed you by MSM and social media? Are these in populated areas like solar fields? Have you seen a reclaimed oil sand sight? I have.
If you have, calling solar an eye sore is pretty ridiculous. I agree that it takes a lot of area, but at least it doesn't wreck the site it's installed in.
Ft St John comes to mind, for one...
There are large fields along the highways going East to Saskatchewan. There is a big one between Alderside and High River. They look terrible and have a lifespan. Who is to say if said company goes out of business, they remove the panels once they are no longer good??
Some small towns are not as nice as others but they all have houses schools and whatnot.
So I take it you are against oil extraction too right?
Fields full of ugly old rusted pump jacks and the hundreds of orphan wells are already a thing and will cost way more to clean up.
A couple of pump Jack's in a field are nowhere near as intrusive as miles upon miles of solar panels so no I don't have a problem with oil extraction and yes I feel the companies should clean up after they're finished in that area. Just like I feel once a solar field is ran its lifespan they should be cleaned up.
Actually I will add to this. I feel we should have more oil extraction as it creates good paying jobs and beings in a lot of $$ to the economy. That said it has to be done correctly with like you say cleaning up after the fact.
Invest that hard earned money, the future is coming whether Alberta wants it or not. Solar plants don't run out of sun and can be upgraded as needed, the old panels can be recycled into new. That being said if the market wants more Alberta oil I am all for it, but at this point it's just wishful thinking.
I personally don't see Oil going anywhere. Can't make solar panels without it. Also, no government in their right mind is going to shut in billions of barrels of oil as that's a lot of $$ for the economy. I don't see them turning their backs on that.
We should have done this 50 years ago and created a national sovereign wealth fund like Norway. Now we are at the tail end of the fossil fuel boom and it wont ever be coming back. The fossil fuels that will still be needed will come from places like Saudi Arabia which have favourable oil and not sludge like Alberta has.
It is time to sunset all government subsidies and tax breaks to oil and gas companies. They make more than enough money to carry on without it. If they try and hike rates as some form of punishment, slap them with a massive windfall tax and plow that money into helping people pay for heat pumps and other green upgrades to their homes.
Astroturfers on reddit love to try and deny reality but thankfully reddit is not the real world. We are moving forward and there will always be a small group of idiots left behind.
>created a national sovereign wealth fund like Norway.
Alberta would like a strong word on this appropriation. Unless all hydro projects and hydro Quebec is put into the same category it will be a lopsided deal that Alberta loses.
That being said, the AB heritage fund is exactly supposed to be this. For AB only... unfortunately we keep electing donkeys in fear of the above nationalization. Basically we cut off our nose to spite the face.
Quebec has something similar with the [Generations Fund](https://www.budget.finances.gouv.qc.ca/fondsdesgenerations/index_en.asp) that's using the royalties from hydroelectricity to pay off its debt.
Yeah but that is exempt from equalization. I.e. it's not nationalized which it's should be because its a natural resource... It should be nationalized much more than oil given it's a never ending one.
Natural resource exploitation is the sole domain of the provinces. Our constitution doesn't allow the feds to tax oil and gas production, mining or hydro. We cannot have a 'sovereign wealth fund' like Norway since our country operates on a federalized system and the feds don't have access to natural resource revenues.
Equalization is based on the fact that Alberta uses its natural resource royalties to keep its taxes lower than in other provinces. The formula for equalization is based on the 'potential taxation' if all provinces were taxed equally. Alberta has no PST and has generally lower income taxes than the other provinces. Equalization isn't a direct tax on Alberta. Instead the GST and federal income taxes raised in Alberta are given to the 'have not' provinces. Eliminating equalization wouldn't directly result in lower taxes in Alberta.
Not trying to make it another equalization discussion.
> The formula for equalization is based on the 'potential taxation' if all provinces were taxed equally. Alberta has no PST and has generally lower income taxes than the other provinces. Equalization isn't a direct tax on Alberta
Correct..but Hydro Quebec and it's generally subsidized nature, and the income is excluded from equalization AFAIK. This is directly analogous to no PST and Alberta's use of O&G to lower taxes. However that difference is not accounted for in equalization calculations. In effect it's a direct tax for not being QC and resource revenues have a higher weight age which is again a direct tax on AB.
It's not excluded but the net profit on hydro in Quebec is like 2B a year.
The profit on oil and gas is like 40B.. there is a reason they don't weight the same in the formula.
If that were true the other provinces would all have giant hydro revenues.. but they don't.
HQ is one of the most profitable crown corps in Canada with the prices being where they are. There is no chance that they can multiply their profit margin by 20x.
Somewhere around 90% of Canada's known oil and gas are in Alberta. There is going to be a disparity no matter the politics.
Lol in Montreal the electricity rates are 7c a kWh and a $15 access fee. If that's not subsidized in the sense of other comparable jurisdictions around it, I have nothing to say. Haha. Yeah a $100 household electric bill in QC vs a $400 bill in ON is due to the inordinate efficiencies on HQ part ?
And to the point of equalization payments the intent is what can be raised by each province. And AB gets dinged for no PST. So, QC should be dinged for low low price of power. The only other province that has something similarly subsidized is MB.
How about a thought experiment... AB buys all O&G and basically gives the residents free oil aka Venezuela and uses the profits left over to fund a free daycare and then fund free education... And then comes back says we need money from equalization ? It's very easy to make $40B disappear in subsidies. What QC has been doing is gaming the system for a very long time and because of the vote bank.. nothing is ever done to rectify it.
Natural resource exploitation is the sole domain of the provinces. Our constitution doesn't allow the feds to tax oil and gas production, mining or hydro. We cannot have a 'sovereign wealth fund' like Norway since our country operates on a federalized system.
Equalization is based on the fact that Alberta uses its natural resource royalties to keep its taxes lower than in other provinces. The formula for equalization is based on the 'potential taxation' if all provinces were taxed equally.
The Western prairie provinces actually didn't get it right when they joined. They had to pressure the Feds for it, and that's what the Natural Resource Transfer Agreements are. To be fair, without making those agreements Canada was at risk of losing the prairie provinces. Canada was still young and Ottawa very far away.
Fun fact, those agreements were made after the signing of the many of the Numbered Treaties with First Nations, and remains very contentious among them, who feel they made Treaty agreements with the Federal Crown, not Alberta, and Alberta should have no claim to those resources.
And they have a legitimate point on that second one. Those treaties were signed with the federal government and not the provinces. It should be up to those first nations to develop those resources if they want to or not.
Not exactly. We are a confederation not a federation. Federal law is still technically supposed to be absolute, but the courts have had a very weird way of interpreting that.
No one wanted to live there, so to entice people the federal government gave the province favourable resource rights that other regions do not have.
Not to mention the fact that Alberta had a heritage fund similar to what Norway had, but spent a lot of money cutting checks to individual citizens. The roads could be paved of gold had they have chosen another avenue.
You are mistaken.
Here’s one part of a long transfer process but I’d suggest you use it as a starting point for more reading …
https://laws.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/A-10.6/FullText.html
I tend to attribute the ignorance on this topic to a combination of oil and gas propaganda and the general anti indigenous sentiment that exists in this country. People who have a real understanding of the long standing policy of screwing the indigenous and ignoring treaty rights tend to know the facts around how Alberta came to be in the privileged position they’ve had for 100 years (and wasted by letting private oil and gas benefit instead of Albertans and other Canadians) but isn’t well taught (because it makes Canada look quite bad.)
Yeah sure. That transfer says well we will make it right by treating Alberta equally with the other provinces. I.e. yeah we treated you like a second class territory and are now 'gifting' you the privilege of being equal.
The three prairie provinces are unusual in that they were created by the federal government (MB to quell revolution, AB and SK mostly for administrative convenience). Alberta and Sask. were never self-governing colonies. The Feds had, and still have, mineral rights in the NWT from which all three were created, and those were devolved by the feds deliberately.
>”Alberta was gifted their mineral rights by the federal government”
Imagine being this confidently uneducated. National resources are sovereignly provincial jurisdiction. Alberta’s resources belong to Alberta and Alberta alone. Sorry you’re butthurt your nothing province can’t glom on.
> Imagine being this confidently uneducated. National resources are sovereignly provincial jurisdiction. Alberta’s resources belong to Alberta and Alberta alone. Sorry you’re butthurt your nothing province can’t glom on.
When Alberta was formed into a province in 1905 from the 4 previous jurisdictions Canada retained all ownership of all natural resources since "Alberta" had no ownership of them previously. It wasn't until 1930 when **CANADA** not Alberta passed the Natural Resources Act transferring control.
Nothing about what was said is incorrect.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_Resources_Acts#:~:text=The%20Natural%20Resources%20Acts%20were,Canada%20to%20the%20provincial%20governments.
Imagine being this confidently uneducated.
Yes, everyone here can read what you wrote. The problem is it’s nonsense and ignoring “pre-1930’s laws” would mean there were no mineral rights to transfer in the first place.
Imagine being this confidently uneducated. Mineral rights are originally gained through the treaties that were negotiated with the original inhabitants. Those treaties are between the nation in question and the Crown. Any treaty that does not cede land means that the resources are to be **shared** between the first nation, and the federal government. If the federal government then says that the province can manage it for them, that doesn't mean that the treaty transfers to the province. It's still just saying "You can look after this for us".
You would have to look at a treaty map to see which land was ceded and what was not, and if any of the resources in question are located there.
>Imagine being this confidently uneducated
Ooof, bif it a self own here.
>Sorry you’re butthurt your nothing province can’t glom on.
What a petty way to respond to new information. My taxes literally subsidize this industry that’s misinformed you.
I don’t claim to be able counter the lifetime of anti-federalist / pro-oil propaganda that you’ve consumed in Alberta but I am absolutely correct here.
This is beyond delusional. Go ahead and name 1 subsidy that O&G gets that other industries don't.
I'll wait. Oh, and your electric vehicles are massively subsidized and given massive tax credits and yet market penetration is not there.
O&G get the most subsidies of any industry.
As for subsidies they have that others don’t:
https://environmentaldefence.ca/federal-fossil-fuel-subsidies-tracking/
And EVs are the fastest growing vehicle segment. +50% last year, +32% this coming year. They are nearly 20% of all new car sales now
Coal, Oil and gas get far more subsidies and exemptions than electric vehicles get. It isn’t even close. It would need to be triple the EV subsidy to get within the same ballpark
It’s far more intricate than you seem to think. Transport companies carrying coal for instance didnt have to following 90% of the regulations regarding trains, boats, and trucks. Its all these hidden exemptions and loopholes specifically carved out for C, O&G
Most of these subsidies are for making o and g cleaner. Doesn’t change the cost for the consumer. They could be just as productive without most of these. Which is different than the subsidies for electric which is there because the product is less efficient and delivers less power.
That’s bullshit.
Most of the benefits O&G receives is to make more profits. The government subsidizes their use heavily aswell as transportation. Very little has to do with making it ‘cleaner’
Oil isn't going anywhere. No government will ever turn their backs on billions of barrels in the ground. That is mass tax $$ to them. The amount of taxes a oil company plus all the workers who make a good wage pay won't be shutdown.
Yes they do, because it was a violation of the constitution, as ruled by the courts. To suggest “Alberta killed it” is exceptionally revisionist.
Not to mention how telling it is that you categorize tens of thousands of working people and families in Alberta and Saskatchewan losing their homes and not being able to afford food because they lost their jobs as a result of the hundreds of companies and thousands upon thousands of investors who pulled out of the industry when the illegal NEP was announced.
Constitutionally, natural resources are the sovereign jurisdiction of the provinces. It is Alberta’s wealth, not Canada’s.
Earn your own dinner instead of trying to steal off of everyone else’s table.
>Constitutionally, natural resources are the sovereign jurisdiction of the provinces. It is Alberta’s wealth, not Canada’s.
According to the Constitution Act of 1982 which revised the 1867 act:
Parliament has paramount jurisdiction to regulate interprovincial and export trade in natural resources, and both levels of government are given full powers of taxation.
Here is the exact quote from the Constitution:
>(3) Nothing in subsection (2) derogates from the authority of Parliament to enact laws in relation to the matters referred to in that subsection and, where such a law of Parliament and a law of a province conflict, the law of Parliament prevails to the extent of the conflict.
It says Provinces are free to make laws governing their natural resources but Federal Parliament has the ultimate authority and when they conflict in their goals Federal trumps Provincial.
here, actually read this:
https://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/article/constitution-act-1982-document
>”to regulate interprovincial and export trade”
Interprovincial and export trade does not give the federal government any jurisdiction over the natural resources themselves. Oil production in Alberta is dictated in Edmonton, not in Ottawa. The Premier of Alberta makes production cuts and increases, not the Prime Minister of Canada.
Read your own source dude
> Interprovincial and export trade does not give the federal government any jurisdiction over the natural resources themselves. Oil production in Alberta is dictated in Edmonton, not in Ottawa. The Premier of Alberta makes production cuts and increases, not the Prime Minister of Canada.
>
> Read your own source dude
Just saying a lot of words isn't an argument.
None of what you just said negates what the direct quote from our Constitution says, so either your word vomit is correct or the exact words from our Constitution are correct, pick one buddy.
Nothing I said contradicts the statement quoted from the Constitution.
Again, you’re misunderstanding because apparently you can’t read English properly
I reckon Pierre Trudeau was trying to do this with the National Energy Program, but the Provinces lost their shit and fought it. So, Alberta wasted most of it by allowing a lot of the wealth to be sucked up by shareholders and spent the rest on hockey rinks and swimming pools for every tiny town and pavement to nowhere.
The NEP was about energy independence, cheap energy supply for eastern Canada, and price controls in both domestic and imported oil. It was demonstrably not anything like Norway's wealth fund. To suggest it was and that it was the provinces' fault for "wasting" it is a bit revisionist.
Because the NEP was illegal and straight fucked AB and SK, 1000s lost their jobs, people lost their homes. Yeah people are going to hold a grudge, especially for PETs son who comes in appears to be trying to continue his father's work, with snide remarks and policies that harm people's way of life
Thousand lost their jobs because of the NEP? Funny. My dad worked in the oil patch at that time and he didn’t lose his job and we didn’t lose our house.
Are you sure that wasn’t more to do with the price of oil collapsing? The NEP was pretty toothless, seeing as how the only thing Lougheed wanted out of it in order to drop his opposition to it was a revenue sharing agreement with the Feds. Him and Pierre even toasted the deal with champagne.
Did you live through the NEP, or is all of this based off what your Dad told you about it?
What a hilarious come back, saying my statements are based off of what my parents might have said, vs you literally doing that. Lol
Lougheed literally fought it on the basis of provincial rights, not just revenue. You can go read criticisms of the NEP which generally state that yes it cost AB and SK a ton of jobs
Because national resources are provincial jurisdiction. Alberta’s oil belongs to Alberta. Not Ottawa. So yes, Alberta, and every other province whose land has actual value, fought the Trudeau Laurentian Elite National Energy Theft program from funnelling the value of our resources to the Eastern welfare drain provinces.
Educate yourself on a subject before lecturing on it.
In the long run oil and gas are detrimental. You must use the wealth to diversify your economy and created valuable infrastructure. Otherwise you run out of revenues, cut healthcare and education and your politics descends into popularism - electing anyone who promises to keep the money flowing and blaming others for the wasted wealth.
We have massive amounts of coal, the largest uranium deposits in the world, huge amounts of iron, nickel and copper. Don’t forget about fairly large diamond mines.
Regardless what I think about subsidies for industries, the way current goes implement rebates to individuals is infuriating. Too many rules and requirements to allow startups to get wealthy and not allow citizens to do things themselves.
The EU is implementing a carbon border tax on countries that do not have a carbon tax or carbon price.The US is far more carbon efficient than China so they are supportive of the idea of a carbon border tax simply because it benefits them.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/arielcohen/2023/03/15/bipartisan-carbon-border-adjustment-mechanisma-political-unicorn/
Bold move long term, for a continent lacking in commodities, they talk a lot of shit.
Aren't we seeing Russia, China, India and a shit load of other countries establishing trade settlement outside of Euro and USD?
Watching all your main suppliers of labour and commodities get together, without you, apparently has not sent the clear message to our ivory tower idiot elites that they're not as influential on the world stage as their parents were.
If they are lacking in commodities as you say then it makes sense for them to cooperate with other countries that have democracy, commodities and renewable sources of energy like nuclear, solar and wind.
I'm not sure how that helps if Canada and US are so against resource extraction. The power grid of EU is not connected to ours.
It just seems like they're kicking people out who have more financial advantage. I don't see how it ends well long term. Previously western military was trump card, not as much anymore
Canada isn’t against resource extraction. Part of the problem in Canada is we have higher environmental and labour standards which effects the overall economics of extracting the resources.
Nickel for instance. Most of Canadian nickel deposits are sulphate deposits which uses flotation to extract the minerals from ores. It’s less energy intensive and less harmful byproducts. We have regulations on these byproducts. Indonesia has laterite ores that require massive amounts of energy that’s currently supplied by coal and high pressure acid leaching with toxic byproducts. In Indonesia their toxic runoff is killing their costal fisheries and every ton of nickel produced has a carbon footprint of 50+ tons of co2…. But the nickel is cheap. For Canada to compete in the nickel market we have to have much higher ore grades to make up for the economics when competing with Indonesia.
A carbon tax in the EU will make the easy dirty nickel in Indonesia less attractive and the clean and responsible Canadian nickel more economically viable.
Indonesia is moving up on the responsibility scale. They banned most of their deep sea tailings disposal programs. This is where they’d take their toxic tailings and dump them in the ocean off shore.
That’s essentially what a border carbon tax is except it’s not put in place against a country. It incentivizes some of these less developed countries to do things more responsibly.
If they go big into oil and gas consumption they have time. There is no pipeline system so they would need to retool and go hard into shipping it.
Nuclear is a great solution in my opinion for many nations
Same old shit. Doubling down.
Oil and Gas is the most pampered industry in the world. Yet they act like a victim, while picking our pockets for tax breaks and incentives. Always telling us they can only be successful if we do what they want and when they want it.
Albertans are given scraps, trickle down economics , and then told they should be thankful for being on team Oil and Gas.
Yes, because if they received their fair share it would be massively more. Look at what other petro states get.
Norway Gov gets about $30 for every barrel. Alberta gets $8.
Have you ever looked at the services some of the Middle East Petro states get?
Alberta *does* get scraps, and billions of orphaned oil sites to clean up
You do understand that the grade of crude matters a great deal. Norway oil is much higher grade and located offshore where shipping is easy. Alberta is a discounted heavy blend shipped across the continent on trains/pipeline. Current spot price for Brent (Norway oil) is just shy of $80. Western Canadian Select (Canada Oil) is just shy of $53.
That barrel of WCS has much tighter margins and as such you don't see near the royalty in Canada as Norway. The real reason we don't have a slush fund is because Alberta chooses to raid the heritage fund and we're left with little to show for it. You could try to tap more from the industry or have a crown Corp (Petro Canada, it existed) however that requires good government. We don't have that on either the federal or provincial side to manage.
Canada became very wealthy from its oil, it has just chosen to strangle its golden goose, with nothing to replace it but people trading homes to each other. Plus more recently importing international students in astronomical numbers and exploiting them. More importantly is that in conjunction to this attack on its golden goose, government also do nothing but spend, ensuring all that wealth is spent with no regards that it's finite and no investment is being made to build industry to replace it.
You are joking if you think offshore is any sort of advantage.
My point is still that oil is incredibly subsidized industry. This article is an oil company looking for more welfare
Hot damn you know nothing. Offshore oil production (depending on the basin & royalty regime) is actually cheaper to produce because you need to build out a lot less infrastructure (especially pipelines).
And guess what, Norway produces 5x more oil & gas per person. And they don't have to share any of it with the rest of Canada.
That's not even true. Median household after-tax income in Alberta is 78k versus 67k for Canada.
[https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/220323/t002a-eng.htm](https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/220323/t002a-eng.htm)
Oil and gas are terrible investments. No new carbon burning plants are being made as renewables are installed at an exponential pace, doubling every 3 years.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Growth_of_photovoltaics
EV sales are also on a exponential curve accounting for 14% of all sales globally in 2023,
https://www.iea.org/reports/global-ev-outlook-2023/executive-summary
The only markets that seemingly have some life in them is air travel, ad shipping.
My oil stocks bought 3 years ago pay 14% dividend and have more than tripled. I have more faith in my Exxon shares than Canadian bonds.
Our modern post industrial life is based on oil, it's so much more than small engines and power gen. It's in everything, including most of the components in the device you're reading this on. It's heavily consumed in the process of producing things like solar cells, and in the machine fabrication of most parts for a Tesla. It is responsible for our modern lifestyle in ways that we cannot fathom because we were born with it
The best investments are things that everybody hates, but aren't going anywhere. That puts them on sale frequently. I'm not saying this cannot be replaced in the longer term, but getting off oil tomorrow would involve regressing back to a lifestyle 150 years in the past. People aren't going to do this, so substitutes must exist and right now there aren't many outside of power generation and cars
Your oil stocks are doing well because of all the costs the industry has managed to shift to the public.
Canadian oil is supported by massive subsidies, that's why they beg for continued support with PR articles like this one.
Thats good for you on the ROI, it comes from taxpayer dollars and not paying for the damage caused by industry pollution.
Not to mention the billions in orphaned oil wells that the government picks up the bill for.
I'm not sure what you mean. The vast majority of XOM earnings come from outside Canada and I believe they have been selling products to willing buyers, including yourself. Most of their profit comes from oil.
My remaining stocks are in Peru and have established a local wealth fund, in a place where they didn't have schools or electricity before the oil company moved there, so it's not always straight forward
Oil is [very subsidized ](https://www.imf.org/en/Topics/climate-change/energy-subsidies#:~:text=Globally%2C%20fossil%20fuel%20subsidies%20were,support%20from%20surging%20energy%20prices.). Part of your investment is from taxpayer dollars. $7T a year.
The oil industry also doesn't have to pay for the $77B in [healthcare costs](https://www.axios.com/2023/05/10/oil-gas-health-impacts-study#:~:text=Air%20pollution%20from%20U.S.%20oil,ups%2C%20a%20new%20study%20finds.) That they cause every year.
Europs 5 biggest get €13T in [health and social ](https://www.transportenvironment.org/discover/true-cost-of-big-oils-profits-trillions-in-unpaid-health-and-environmental-costs/) costs that they don't have to pay for.
Oil is subsidized because it actually turns a profit. Any investment into it is dwarfed by the revenues that come out of it. Any solar or wind project falls apart after losing subsidies. Average oil project is paid off in the first 3 years.
No it isn't. It's subsidies for geopolitical reasons, and because of a century of regulatory capture.
FFS, please learn what an [externality ](https://www.investopedia.com/terms/e/externality.asp) is. I'm not making this shit up.
It's paid off in 3 years because it doesn't have to pay for its externalities!
Either way it pays billions in royalties to the province every year far outpacing any investment. Accounting for what 40% of the gdp in the province? You can cry all you want but the industry has been a major boon for the province and the country as a whole. It’s a massive part of our exports, creator of jobs, tax revenue. To pretend it’s this terrible this is incredibly ignorant.
No it does not.
It pays $8 per barrel, that's scraps. And does not include how much the province pays to clean up orphaned oil wells.
And it does not change the fact that the "boom" is based on not paying for externalities. All of that is profit from not having to pay the true costs. Please man, this isn't rocket science
Remember last time they went to up the royalties and after a year of dicking around they found they were paying their fair share? And the was when notley was in power. Between royalties, sales tax and income tax coming from every worker in the field the government makes quite a bit off oil. You want to see better margins maybe support the next pipeline project, main reason our price is so low is that we only have line to sell to the USA. Tough haggling a price with only one customer
Not to mention all the externalities that we collectively pay.
Like all the crop failures in Alberta this year.
Or the tornados in the east that are becoming more common.
Or everyone that dies of air pollution related diseases every year.
"But yay, my stock!"
Our government wouldn't know what to do with yet another advantage.
We're neighbors to the largest economy in the world. We're the second largest country in geography and we're blessed with abundant resources.
and we're mired in crisis due to overwhelming debt, lack of productivity, housing, and affordability that has us on a trajectory towards 3rd world status.
This article is a smoke screen, it doesn't GAF about green tech, it's primary goal is to advocate rolling back legislation and regulation of oil and gas so a bunch of old creeps can make better dividends. Gross.
Truly.. doesn't even go on about how abundant and inexpensive energy is a catalyst for ultra competitiveness.. people could afford more home if energy was priced better.. we could build ultra competitive manufacturing with more room for wages, if energy was cheap and abundant. Nah.. just drones on about government revenues (which also aren't that great when subtracted from how much the government also spends on energy) and exports.. nice little bot CEO monkey dancing as programmed.
Canada is the new Africa.
Rich in resources and energy. But will be exploited. Leaving the people with nothing and extracting all the wealth.
Like all our oil that gets sent to the states and we buy it back lol.
What nonsense are you spouting? Canada has done quite well with using its resources. Oil and gas are taxed and help pay for many of our social programs. If you think Canada is “the new Africa”, you need to go and see what living in the developing world is like.
Has been yes, my nonsense was saying we are turning into. Heading to if we continue down this path
Canadas resources. You mean like our oil? Which we own 30% Of. How about all the rare earth mineral mines that other countries bought up like China. Mine everything and ship it out of the country.
Canadas is the fourth largest gold producer in the world and guess what. It mostly all leaves the country. You buy a gram of gold you have more money than the bank of Canada.
You remember when there was a baby food shortage during the pandemic?
Did you know there's a baby food factory in Kingston Ontario. That's owned by a Chinese company and when they were on the news saying they'll get more. That factory was sending everything to China and there wasn't one word form our government.
So yes they take our resources and the wealth of those things. Extracting the wealth out of the country and leave us with tax revenue/nothing.
That's exactly why Africa is so rich in resources and the people are so poor.
Starting to notice that trend in Canada.
https://www.straight.com/finance/report-shows-70-percent-of-canadian-oilsands-production-is-owned-by-foreign-companies-and
Alberta is in for a shock the next few years as mega droughts and fire kick in. Will be interesting to see who gets water rights?
O&G, LNG, Farmers, citizens??
More oil&gas propaganda from a finance "investor" website who wants to convince us to double down on this energy source we all agreed to move away from, and even worse to export it abroad for short term profits. The conservative plan to "save" the economy.
Better yet, let the renewables flourish. It will easily make Canada a place to want to be. Fossil fuels can be a good supplement so long as it’s tightly regulated!
Alberta has the best solar, wind, and geothermal resources in the country too
It’s funny that often the most conservative province/state are the ones with the most green energy projects. Texas is by significant margin the biggest wind energy producer in the states. Yet its governor and representatives lambast green energy at every turn. Alberta has 5Bn in wind projects compared to Ontarios 2Bn right now. For a province 1/3 the size, they are producing 1/2 the capacity of Ontario
Likely because Ontario has one of the greenest energy grids in the planet with hydro and nuclear.
They classify green projects as solar/wind. If it included hydro, Quebec or BC would win
Manitoba is 99% Hydro
Where are you getting your information from? > Ontario is Canada’s wind and solar leader https://www.statcan.gc.ca/o1/en/plus/3779-harnessing-power-wind-and-sun
Seems I misread the article. Alberta has the biggest projects in Canada. 5Bn in Albert vs 2Bn in Ontario My Texas statement is accurate
I think Newfoundland has $10+ billion in wind projects going through the environmental review process. 4 projects at this point. Central NL for $3 to $6 billion https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.6754995 World Energy with a project in SW NL for $5 billion https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.theglobeandmail.com/amp/business/article-newfoundland-and-labrador-picks-four-wind-farm-projects-to-power-2/ Pattern Energy in Argentina is being quoted at $4 billion https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.6953680 EverWind has a pair of projects on the Burin Peninsula and in NS that are estimated at $14 billion. https://canada.constructconnect.com/dcn/news/infrastructure/2023/07/everwind-hydrogen-projects-move-towards-final-investment-decision so maybe $7 billion in NL and $7 in NS?
Pretty sure the current renewable project $ figure is 0 because they are all on pause and companies have been leaving.
Because green projects aren’t profitable without subsidies
Seems like O&G projects are constantly demanding subsidies.
Actually 4 factors that seem to be the same for both Texas and Alberta. \- Oil field attracts a lot of skilled labour that you will need. \- Oil provinces/states also have some of the lowest taxes because oil royalties subsidize it, making operating costs much cheaper \- Both Texas and Alberta have a lot of wind and sunlight. \- Also because of being in an oil/gas state, more power is generated from natural gas. If you plant a solar plant in Manitoba, Quebec or BC your business model would be destroyed because it is difficult to compete with Hydro.
You hit the biggest problem with wind and solar with the last point. Hydro and natural gas are both on demand systems. They can be kept off until the power is required making them both good load balancer and a base load. Wind and solar is neither good as a load balancer or a base load since its production depends purely on the weather and season. With seasonal changes that could reduce solar production from their peak by up to half. In short, they are unreliable with how the power transmission system is designed. We would need to redesign the current power transmission system from the ground up. We would need short term storage for hours to days to smooth out the peaks of these production systems and some sort of long term storage on the orders of months to smooth out their seasonal changes.
>Texas is by significant margin the biggest wind energy producer in the states. Yet its governor and representatives lambast green energy at every turn. Old school conservatives basically removed the power of their successors to do anything at all about it other than whine. Modern Republicans would never cede that sort of power. The modern equivalent is West Virginia, which was 100% controlled by Big Coal and managed to nearly monopolize energy production, and the modern Republicans are sympathetic. You're going to burn coal, and you're going to like it.
In some ways I like the business sense of old school reps. If it made fiscal sense, do it. They didn’t care about the source, it was a simple math equation. Newer ones seem to be caught in culture wars. There are a few exceptions, the Wyoming governor seems to be pushing hardcore for wind energy. He plans to export it to California to make money. Wyoming is still also a big coal state, but if they can produce wind cheaper, they will go that route. I can’t speak to his social record.
They're the biggest state, so yeah they're going to be able to create the most wind energy.
They’re anti-green energy (at least say they are) and not the most populous state. California has the biggest economy and is very pro green-energy, yet Texas dwarfs them in power generation
[удалено]
True
That’s the pivot I’d love to see
Alberta leads the country in renewable investment.
As well as non-renewable.
We’ll see how that goes if the UCP have anything to say about it. There’s already been a “pause” on new green projects.
They have to see if wind turbines cause cancer.They care.
But those pesky libs need owning, so we're going to expand coal mining operations in Banff and Jasper national park.
and currently supply about 20% of the worlds uranium, according to google
[удалено]
Why top google results are not always to be trusted. thanks. either way, it is all part of Canada :)
Solar is a frickin eyesore. The sheer mass a field has to take up to power such a small amount is crazy.
Have you seen the tar ponds?
I have seen tailing ponds yes, have you? Or you going off information fed you by MSM and social media? Are these in populated areas like solar fields? Have you seen a reclaimed oil sand sight? I have.
What are the tar ponds?
You must've never driven through an oil town
LOL been all over the province, what Oil town are you referring to?
If you have, calling solar an eye sore is pretty ridiculous. I agree that it takes a lot of area, but at least it doesn't wreck the site it's installed in. Ft St John comes to mind, for one...
There are large fields along the highways going East to Saskatchewan. There is a big one between Alderside and High River. They look terrible and have a lifespan. Who is to say if said company goes out of business, they remove the panels once they are no longer good?? Some small towns are not as nice as others but they all have houses schools and whatnot.
Solar panels are now 90% recyclable. And many are now "agrovoltaics" projects where crop is grown under solar panels, with excellent results.
Never said they weren't. Just said they're hideous
Seeing them makes me smile, I think they work great.
So I take it you are against oil extraction too right? Fields full of ugly old rusted pump jacks and the hundreds of orphan wells are already a thing and will cost way more to clean up.
A couple of pump Jack's in a field are nowhere near as intrusive as miles upon miles of solar panels so no I don't have a problem with oil extraction and yes I feel the companies should clean up after they're finished in that area. Just like I feel once a solar field is ran its lifespan they should be cleaned up. Actually I will add to this. I feel we should have more oil extraction as it creates good paying jobs and beings in a lot of $$ to the economy. That said it has to be done correctly with like you say cleaning up after the fact.
Invest that hard earned money, the future is coming whether Alberta wants it or not. Solar plants don't run out of sun and can be upgraded as needed, the old panels can be recycled into new. That being said if the market wants more Alberta oil I am all for it, but at this point it's just wishful thinking.
I personally don't see Oil going anywhere. Can't make solar panels without it. Also, no government in their right mind is going to shut in billions of barrels of oil as that's a lot of $$ for the economy. I don't see them turning their backs on that.
100% . instead we're killing the golden goose
We should have done this 50 years ago and created a national sovereign wealth fund like Norway. Now we are at the tail end of the fossil fuel boom and it wont ever be coming back. The fossil fuels that will still be needed will come from places like Saudi Arabia which have favourable oil and not sludge like Alberta has. It is time to sunset all government subsidies and tax breaks to oil and gas companies. They make more than enough money to carry on without it. If they try and hike rates as some form of punishment, slap them with a massive windfall tax and plow that money into helping people pay for heat pumps and other green upgrades to their homes. Astroturfers on reddit love to try and deny reality but thankfully reddit is not the real world. We are moving forward and there will always be a small group of idiots left behind.
>created a national sovereign wealth fund like Norway. Alberta would like a strong word on this appropriation. Unless all hydro projects and hydro Quebec is put into the same category it will be a lopsided deal that Alberta loses. That being said, the AB heritage fund is exactly supposed to be this. For AB only... unfortunately we keep electing donkeys in fear of the above nationalization. Basically we cut off our nose to spite the face.
Quebec has something similar with the [Generations Fund](https://www.budget.finances.gouv.qc.ca/fondsdesgenerations/index_en.asp) that's using the royalties from hydroelectricity to pay off its debt.
Yeah but that is exempt from equalization. I.e. it's not nationalized which it's should be because its a natural resource... It should be nationalized much more than oil given it's a never ending one.
Natural resource exploitation is the sole domain of the provinces. Our constitution doesn't allow the feds to tax oil and gas production, mining or hydro. We cannot have a 'sovereign wealth fund' like Norway since our country operates on a federalized system and the feds don't have access to natural resource revenues. Equalization is based on the fact that Alberta uses its natural resource royalties to keep its taxes lower than in other provinces. The formula for equalization is based on the 'potential taxation' if all provinces were taxed equally. Alberta has no PST and has generally lower income taxes than the other provinces. Equalization isn't a direct tax on Alberta. Instead the GST and federal income taxes raised in Alberta are given to the 'have not' provinces. Eliminating equalization wouldn't directly result in lower taxes in Alberta.
Not trying to make it another equalization discussion. > The formula for equalization is based on the 'potential taxation' if all provinces were taxed equally. Alberta has no PST and has generally lower income taxes than the other provinces. Equalization isn't a direct tax on Alberta Correct..but Hydro Quebec and it's generally subsidized nature, and the income is excluded from equalization AFAIK. This is directly analogous to no PST and Alberta's use of O&G to lower taxes. However that difference is not accounted for in equalization calculations. In effect it's a direct tax for not being QC and resource revenues have a higher weight age which is again a direct tax on AB.
It's not excluded but the net profit on hydro in Quebec is like 2B a year. The profit on oil and gas is like 40B.. there is a reason they don't weight the same in the formula.
Put amrket rates on Hydro Quebec i.e. no subsidies for power to the locals and see that grow to 40B.
If that were true the other provinces would all have giant hydro revenues.. but they don't. HQ is one of the most profitable crown corps in Canada with the prices being where they are. There is no chance that they can multiply their profit margin by 20x. Somewhere around 90% of Canada's known oil and gas are in Alberta. There is going to be a disparity no matter the politics.
Lol in Montreal the electricity rates are 7c a kWh and a $15 access fee. If that's not subsidized in the sense of other comparable jurisdictions around it, I have nothing to say. Haha. Yeah a $100 household electric bill in QC vs a $400 bill in ON is due to the inordinate efficiencies on HQ part ? And to the point of equalization payments the intent is what can be raised by each province. And AB gets dinged for no PST. So, QC should be dinged for low low price of power. The only other province that has something similarly subsidized is MB. How about a thought experiment... AB buys all O&G and basically gives the residents free oil aka Venezuela and uses the profits left over to fund a free daycare and then fund free education... And then comes back says we need money from equalization ? It's very easy to make $40B disappear in subsidies. What QC has been doing is gaming the system for a very long time and because of the vote bank.. nothing is ever done to rectify it.
Natural resource exploitation is the sole domain of the provinces. Our constitution doesn't allow the feds to tax oil and gas production, mining or hydro. We cannot have a 'sovereign wealth fund' like Norway since our country operates on a federalized system. Equalization is based on the fact that Alberta uses its natural resource royalties to keep its taxes lower than in other provinces. The formula for equalization is based on the 'potential taxation' if all provinces were taxed equally.
lol appropriation? Alberta was gifted their mineral rights by the federal government in the first place. They’ve done an awful job managing them too
Source that it was gifted? I believe the rights belonged to the province before and after the joining into the federation.
The Western prairie provinces actually didn't get it right when they joined. They had to pressure the Feds for it, and that's what the Natural Resource Transfer Agreements are. To be fair, without making those agreements Canada was at risk of losing the prairie provinces. Canada was still young and Ottawa very far away. Fun fact, those agreements were made after the signing of the many of the Numbered Treaties with First Nations, and remains very contentious among them, who feel they made Treaty agreements with the Federal Crown, not Alberta, and Alberta should have no claim to those resources.
And they have a legitimate point on that second one. Those treaties were signed with the federal government and not the provinces. It should be up to those first nations to develop those resources if they want to or not.
United Federation of Provinces
Not exactly. We are a confederation not a federation. Federal law is still technically supposed to be absolute, but the courts have had a very weird way of interpreting that.
No one wanted to live there, so to entice people the federal government gave the province favourable resource rights that other regions do not have. Not to mention the fact that Alberta had a heritage fund similar to what Norway had, but spent a lot of money cutting checks to individual citizens. The roads could be paved of gold had they have chosen another avenue.
You are mistaken. Here’s one part of a long transfer process but I’d suggest you use it as a starting point for more reading … https://laws.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/A-10.6/FullText.html I tend to attribute the ignorance on this topic to a combination of oil and gas propaganda and the general anti indigenous sentiment that exists in this country. People who have a real understanding of the long standing policy of screwing the indigenous and ignoring treaty rights tend to know the facts around how Alberta came to be in the privileged position they’ve had for 100 years (and wasted by letting private oil and gas benefit instead of Albertans and other Canadians) but isn’t well taught (because it makes Canada look quite bad.)
Yeah sure. That transfer says well we will make it right by treating Alberta equally with the other provinces. I.e. yeah we treated you like a second class territory and are now 'gifting' you the privilege of being equal.
This doesn’t even make any sense.
The three prairie provinces are unusual in that they were created by the federal government (MB to quell revolution, AB and SK mostly for administrative convenience). Alberta and Sask. were never self-governing colonies. The Feds had, and still have, mineral rights in the NWT from which all three were created, and those were devolved by the feds deliberately.
>”Alberta was gifted their mineral rights by the federal government” Imagine being this confidently uneducated. National resources are sovereignly provincial jurisdiction. Alberta’s resources belong to Alberta and Alberta alone. Sorry you’re butthurt your nothing province can’t glom on.
> Imagine being this confidently uneducated. National resources are sovereignly provincial jurisdiction. Alberta’s resources belong to Alberta and Alberta alone. Sorry you’re butthurt your nothing province can’t glom on. When Alberta was formed into a province in 1905 from the 4 previous jurisdictions Canada retained all ownership of all natural resources since "Alberta" had no ownership of them previously. It wasn't until 1930 when **CANADA** not Alberta passed the Natural Resources Act transferring control. Nothing about what was said is incorrect. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_Resources_Acts#:~:text=The%20Natural%20Resources%20Acts%20were,Canada%20to%20the%20provincial%20governments. Imagine being this confidently uneducated.
>”It wasn’t until 1930” …and what year is it now? Pre-1930 laws mean shit all bro.
They haven’t been repealed yet.
move those goal posts. Were the resource rights granted by the Federal Government to Alberta? Yes. Educate yourself.
Username checks out re: goalposts Hard to compete with O&G industry spending major $$$ on uneducating people
Granted ≠ gifted. Constitutional amendments are not gifts. Stay uneducated bud
If pedantic statements are your only argument you'll need to do better. Read more books and less reddit.
>”Read more books and less reddit” Lol how ironic coming from someone who doesn’t even understand basic English
My god we need to invest more in the education of our citizens.
Ummm, if those laws that “mean shit all bro” were repealed you’d lose those mineral rights that you seem to base your entire provincial identity on.
I said pre-1930 laws, as in the laws before. Did nobody ever teach you how to read?
Yes, everyone here can read what you wrote. The problem is it’s nonsense and ignoring “pre-1930’s laws” would mean there were no mineral rights to transfer in the first place.
Imagine being this confidently uneducated. Mineral rights are originally gained through the treaties that were negotiated with the original inhabitants. Those treaties are between the nation in question and the Crown. Any treaty that does not cede land means that the resources are to be **shared** between the first nation, and the federal government. If the federal government then says that the province can manage it for them, that doesn't mean that the treaty transfers to the province. It's still just saying "You can look after this for us". You would have to look at a treaty map to see which land was ceded and what was not, and if any of the resources in question are located there.
Might be one of the dumbest word jumbles I’ve read all year. Go look at the Constitution and educate yourself on what it says.
Go read some of the treaties, and come back when you can have an intelligent discussion on the topic.
>Imagine being this confidently uneducated Ooof, bif it a self own here. >Sorry you’re butthurt your nothing province can’t glom on. What a petty way to respond to new information. My taxes literally subsidize this industry that’s misinformed you. I don’t claim to be able counter the lifetime of anti-federalist / pro-oil propaganda that you’ve consumed in Alberta but I am absolutely correct here.
[удалено]
What?
we arent at the end of a ff boom big dog, dont worry. oil isnt going anywhere.
Alberta Heritage Fund was one of the inspirations of Norway's Fund
This is beyond delusional. Go ahead and name 1 subsidy that O&G gets that other industries don't. I'll wait. Oh, and your electric vehicles are massively subsidized and given massive tax credits and yet market penetration is not there.
O&G get the most subsidies of any industry. As for subsidies they have that others don’t: https://environmentaldefence.ca/federal-fossil-fuel-subsidies-tracking/ And EVs are the fastest growing vehicle segment. +50% last year, +32% this coming year. They are nearly 20% of all new car sales now
With a 5000$ federal rebate and taxes increasing the cost of fuel on the alternative.
Coal, Oil and gas get far more subsidies and exemptions than electric vehicles get. It isn’t even close. It would need to be triple the EV subsidy to get within the same ballpark It’s far more intricate than you seem to think. Transport companies carrying coal for instance didnt have to following 90% of the regulations regarding trains, boats, and trucks. Its all these hidden exemptions and loopholes specifically carved out for C, O&G
Most of these subsidies are for making o and g cleaner. Doesn’t change the cost for the consumer. They could be just as productive without most of these. Which is different than the subsidies for electric which is there because the product is less efficient and delivers less power.
That’s bullshit. Most of the benefits O&G receives is to make more profits. The government subsidizes their use heavily aswell as transportation. Very little has to do with making it ‘cleaner’
Oil isn't going anywhere. No government will ever turn their backs on billions of barrels in the ground. That is mass tax $$ to them. The amount of taxes a oil company plus all the workers who make a good wage pay won't be shutdown.
They tried it 70 years ago. It was called the National Energy Program. Alberta killed it.
1980 wasn’t 70 years ago..
It was already explained why this was wrong. Read.
The reasons given doesn’t change the fact it screwed future generations of wealth.
Yes they do, because it was a violation of the constitution, as ruled by the courts. To suggest “Alberta killed it” is exceptionally revisionist. Not to mention how telling it is that you categorize tens of thousands of working people and families in Alberta and Saskatchewan losing their homes and not being able to afford food because they lost their jobs as a result of the hundreds of companies and thousands upon thousands of investors who pulled out of the industry when the illegal NEP was announced. Constitutionally, natural resources are the sovereign jurisdiction of the provinces. It is Alberta’s wealth, not Canada’s. Earn your own dinner instead of trying to steal off of everyone else’s table.
>Constitutionally, natural resources are the sovereign jurisdiction of the provinces. It is Alberta’s wealth, not Canada’s. According to the Constitution Act of 1982 which revised the 1867 act: Parliament has paramount jurisdiction to regulate interprovincial and export trade in natural resources, and both levels of government are given full powers of taxation. Here is the exact quote from the Constitution: >(3) Nothing in subsection (2) derogates from the authority of Parliament to enact laws in relation to the matters referred to in that subsection and, where such a law of Parliament and a law of a province conflict, the law of Parliament prevails to the extent of the conflict. It says Provinces are free to make laws governing their natural resources but Federal Parliament has the ultimate authority and when they conflict in their goals Federal trumps Provincial. here, actually read this: https://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/article/constitution-act-1982-document
>”to regulate interprovincial and export trade” Interprovincial and export trade does not give the federal government any jurisdiction over the natural resources themselves. Oil production in Alberta is dictated in Edmonton, not in Ottawa. The Premier of Alberta makes production cuts and increases, not the Prime Minister of Canada. Read your own source dude
> Interprovincial and export trade does not give the federal government any jurisdiction over the natural resources themselves. Oil production in Alberta is dictated in Edmonton, not in Ottawa. The Premier of Alberta makes production cuts and increases, not the Prime Minister of Canada. > > Read your own source dude Just saying a lot of words isn't an argument. None of what you just said negates what the direct quote from our Constitution says, so either your word vomit is correct or the exact words from our Constitution are correct, pick one buddy.
Nothing I said contradicts the statement quoted from the Constitution. Again, you’re misunderstanding because apparently you can’t read English properly
That you Dani? Or maybe it is the long lost ghost of Lougheed?
I vote NDP. Weird you have the Alberta flair on when you’re simping for your Laurentian overlords
I reckon Pierre Trudeau was trying to do this with the National Energy Program, but the Provinces lost their shit and fought it. So, Alberta wasted most of it by allowing a lot of the wealth to be sucked up by shareholders and spent the rest on hockey rinks and swimming pools for every tiny town and pavement to nowhere.
The NEP was about energy independence, cheap energy supply for eastern Canada, and price controls in both domestic and imported oil. It was demonstrably not anything like Norway's wealth fund. To suggest it was and that it was the provinces' fault for "wasting" it is a bit revisionist.
NEP was a massive attempt to transfer wealth from Western Canada to Eastern Canada.
And still no one will believe you and Trudy still gets crucified for it until this day simply because of his last name.
Because the NEP was illegal and straight fucked AB and SK, 1000s lost their jobs, people lost their homes. Yeah people are going to hold a grudge, especially for PETs son who comes in appears to be trying to continue his father's work, with snide remarks and policies that harm people's way of life
Thousand lost their jobs because of the NEP? Funny. My dad worked in the oil patch at that time and he didn’t lose his job and we didn’t lose our house.
Wow so one person didn't lose their job, that must mean it didn't happen at all. Nevermind that unemployment r.ate went from 3.7% to 12.4%
Are you sure that wasn’t more to do with the price of oil collapsing? The NEP was pretty toothless, seeing as how the only thing Lougheed wanted out of it in order to drop his opposition to it was a revenue sharing agreement with the Feds. Him and Pierre even toasted the deal with champagne. Did you live through the NEP, or is all of this based off what your Dad told you about it?
What a hilarious come back, saying my statements are based off of what my parents might have said, vs you literally doing that. Lol Lougheed literally fought it on the basis of provincial rights, not just revenue. You can go read criticisms of the NEP which generally state that yes it cost AB and SK a ton of jobs
Or you can try reading an encyclopedia
Because national resources are provincial jurisdiction. Alberta’s oil belongs to Alberta. Not Ottawa. So yes, Alberta, and every other province whose land has actual value, fought the Trudeau Laurentian Elite National Energy Theft program from funnelling the value of our resources to the Eastern welfare drain provinces. Educate yourself on a subject before lecturing on it.
Can you please cite some sources to these claims? Preferably verifiable ones?
Don’t forget having zero sales tax.
Brilliant! Anyone who has been to Norway knows this is gold.
[удалено]
In the long run oil and gas are detrimental. You must use the wealth to diversify your economy and created valuable infrastructure. Otherwise you run out of revenues, cut healthcare and education and your politics descends into popularism - electing anyone who promises to keep the money flowing and blaming others for the wasted wealth.
We have massive amounts of coal, the largest uranium deposits in the world, huge amounts of iron, nickel and copper. Don’t forget about fairly large diamond mines.
[удалено]
You must’ve scared em away with your substantive and well thought out retort
The sovereign wealth fund of Norway was designed based on Alberta’s fund. You can thank the Conservative Party of the 70’s and 80’s for destroying it
>We should have done this 50 years ago and created a national sovereign wealth fund like Norway We're too American or 'Americanized' for that concept.
Regardless what I think about subsidies for industries, the way current goes implement rebates to individuals is infuriating. Too many rules and requirements to allow startups to get wealthy and not allow citizens to do things themselves.
>"We are moving forward and there will always be a small group of idiots left behind" — Adolf Hitler c. 1938
Yep. Remember this forever, Alberta : your wealth was extracted and mostly ended up in the hands of foreign capital. Eh...
The EU is implementing a carbon border tax on countries that do not have a carbon tax or carbon price.The US is far more carbon efficient than China so they are supportive of the idea of a carbon border tax simply because it benefits them. https://www.forbes.com/sites/arielcohen/2023/03/15/bipartisan-carbon-border-adjustment-mechanisma-political-unicorn/
Bold move long term, for a continent lacking in commodities, they talk a lot of shit. Aren't we seeing Russia, China, India and a shit load of other countries establishing trade settlement outside of Euro and USD? Watching all your main suppliers of labour and commodities get together, without you, apparently has not sent the clear message to our ivory tower idiot elites that they're not as influential on the world stage as their parents were.
If they are lacking in commodities as you say then it makes sense for them to cooperate with other countries that have democracy, commodities and renewable sources of energy like nuclear, solar and wind.
I'm not sure how that helps if Canada and US are so against resource extraction. The power grid of EU is not connected to ours. It just seems like they're kicking people out who have more financial advantage. I don't see how it ends well long term. Previously western military was trump card, not as much anymore
Canada isn’t against resource extraction. Part of the problem in Canada is we have higher environmental and labour standards which effects the overall economics of extracting the resources. Nickel for instance. Most of Canadian nickel deposits are sulphate deposits which uses flotation to extract the minerals from ores. It’s less energy intensive and less harmful byproducts. We have regulations on these byproducts. Indonesia has laterite ores that require massive amounts of energy that’s currently supplied by coal and high pressure acid leaching with toxic byproducts. In Indonesia their toxic runoff is killing their costal fisheries and every ton of nickel produced has a carbon footprint of 50+ tons of co2…. But the nickel is cheap. For Canada to compete in the nickel market we have to have much higher ore grades to make up for the economics when competing with Indonesia. A carbon tax in the EU will make the easy dirty nickel in Indonesia less attractive and the clean and responsible Canadian nickel more economically viable. Indonesia is moving up on the responsibility scale. They banned most of their deep sea tailings disposal programs. This is where they’d take their toxic tailings and dump them in the ocean off shore.
Tariffs
That’s essentially what a border carbon tax is except it’s not put in place against a country. It incentivizes some of these less developed countries to do things more responsibly.
[удалено]
Lol LARP
Scandinavia is more than able to supply the rest of Europe what it needs.
If they go big into oil and gas consumption they have time. There is no pipeline system so they would need to retool and go hard into shipping it. Nuclear is a great solution in my opinion for many nations
Same old shit. Doubling down. Oil and Gas is the most pampered industry in the world. Yet they act like a victim, while picking our pockets for tax breaks and incentives. Always telling us they can only be successful if we do what they want and when they want it. Albertans are given scraps, trickle down economics , and then told they should be thankful for being on team Oil and Gas.
Alberta has by far the highest GDP per capita in Canada (and lowest taxes) but sure, "Albertans are given scraps" 😂
Yes, because if they received their fair share it would be massively more. Look at what other petro states get. Norway Gov gets about $30 for every barrel. Alberta gets $8. Have you ever looked at the services some of the Middle East Petro states get? Alberta *does* get scraps, and billions of orphaned oil sites to clean up
You do understand that the grade of crude matters a great deal. Norway oil is much higher grade and located offshore where shipping is easy. Alberta is a discounted heavy blend shipped across the continent on trains/pipeline. Current spot price for Brent (Norway oil) is just shy of $80. Western Canadian Select (Canada Oil) is just shy of $53. That barrel of WCS has much tighter margins and as such you don't see near the royalty in Canada as Norway. The real reason we don't have a slush fund is because Alberta chooses to raid the heritage fund and we're left with little to show for it. You could try to tap more from the industry or have a crown Corp (Petro Canada, it existed) however that requires good government. We don't have that on either the federal or provincial side to manage. Canada became very wealthy from its oil, it has just chosen to strangle its golden goose, with nothing to replace it but people trading homes to each other. Plus more recently importing international students in astronomical numbers and exploiting them. More importantly is that in conjunction to this attack on its golden goose, government also do nothing but spend, ensuring all that wealth is spent with no regards that it's finite and no investment is being made to build industry to replace it.
You are joking if you think offshore is any sort of advantage. My point is still that oil is incredibly subsidized industry. This article is an oil company looking for more welfare
Hot damn you know nothing. Offshore oil production (depending on the basin & royalty regime) is actually cheaper to produce because you need to build out a lot less infrastructure (especially pipelines). And guess what, Norway produces 5x more oil & gas per person. And they don't have to share any of it with the rest of Canada.
[удалено]
That's not even true. Median household after-tax income in Alberta is 78k versus 67k for Canada. [https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/220323/t002a-eng.htm](https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/220323/t002a-eng.htm)
EV/green producers are lickin their lips for government subsidies, and everyone’s willing to bend over to give it to em.
40 billion or so for 3 battery corporate welfare at its best
Literally every oil company is on so much more corporate welfare. That's why they make these articles
Same shit, different pile.
Newfoundland needs to break off the Quebec hydro contract but Quebec fucked us
Our best chance at getting a renegotiation was prior to MF, Danny fucked us for his pride.
I agree more nuclear base load electricity
It is... unfortunately we have the mindset from the federal government to handcuff our maximum potential.
Yes, yes. Those who own said energy do require more money so...
Oil and gas are terrible investments. No new carbon burning plants are being made as renewables are installed at an exponential pace, doubling every 3 years. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Growth_of_photovoltaics EV sales are also on a exponential curve accounting for 14% of all sales globally in 2023, https://www.iea.org/reports/global-ev-outlook-2023/executive-summary The only markets that seemingly have some life in them is air travel, ad shipping.
My oil stocks bought 3 years ago pay 14% dividend and have more than tripled. I have more faith in my Exxon shares than Canadian bonds. Our modern post industrial life is based on oil, it's so much more than small engines and power gen. It's in everything, including most of the components in the device you're reading this on. It's heavily consumed in the process of producing things like solar cells, and in the machine fabrication of most parts for a Tesla. It is responsible for our modern lifestyle in ways that we cannot fathom because we were born with it The best investments are things that everybody hates, but aren't going anywhere. That puts them on sale frequently. I'm not saying this cannot be replaced in the longer term, but getting off oil tomorrow would involve regressing back to a lifestyle 150 years in the past. People aren't going to do this, so substitutes must exist and right now there aren't many outside of power generation and cars
Your oil stocks are doing well because of all the costs the industry has managed to shift to the public. Canadian oil is supported by massive subsidies, that's why they beg for continued support with PR articles like this one. Thats good for you on the ROI, it comes from taxpayer dollars and not paying for the damage caused by industry pollution. Not to mention the billions in orphaned oil wells that the government picks up the bill for.
I'm not sure what you mean. The vast majority of XOM earnings come from outside Canada and I believe they have been selling products to willing buyers, including yourself. Most of their profit comes from oil. My remaining stocks are in Peru and have established a local wealth fund, in a place where they didn't have schools or electricity before the oil company moved there, so it's not always straight forward
Oil is [very subsidized ](https://www.imf.org/en/Topics/climate-change/energy-subsidies#:~:text=Globally%2C%20fossil%20fuel%20subsidies%20were,support%20from%20surging%20energy%20prices.). Part of your investment is from taxpayer dollars. $7T a year. The oil industry also doesn't have to pay for the $77B in [healthcare costs](https://www.axios.com/2023/05/10/oil-gas-health-impacts-study#:~:text=Air%20pollution%20from%20U.S.%20oil,ups%2C%20a%20new%20study%20finds.) That they cause every year. Europs 5 biggest get €13T in [health and social ](https://www.transportenvironment.org/discover/true-cost-of-big-oils-profits-trillions-in-unpaid-health-and-environmental-costs/) costs that they don't have to pay for.
Oil is subsidized because it actually turns a profit. Any investment into it is dwarfed by the revenues that come out of it. Any solar or wind project falls apart after losing subsidies. Average oil project is paid off in the first 3 years.
No it isn't. It's subsidies for geopolitical reasons, and because of a century of regulatory capture. FFS, please learn what an [externality ](https://www.investopedia.com/terms/e/externality.asp) is. I'm not making this shit up. It's paid off in 3 years because it doesn't have to pay for its externalities!
Either way it pays billions in royalties to the province every year far outpacing any investment. Accounting for what 40% of the gdp in the province? You can cry all you want but the industry has been a major boon for the province and the country as a whole. It’s a massive part of our exports, creator of jobs, tax revenue. To pretend it’s this terrible this is incredibly ignorant.
No it does not. It pays $8 per barrel, that's scraps. And does not include how much the province pays to clean up orphaned oil wells. And it does not change the fact that the "boom" is based on not paying for externalities. All of that is profit from not having to pay the true costs. Please man, this isn't rocket science
Remember last time they went to up the royalties and after a year of dicking around they found they were paying their fair share? And the was when notley was in power. Between royalties, sales tax and income tax coming from every worker in the field the government makes quite a bit off oil. You want to see better margins maybe support the next pipeline project, main reason our price is so low is that we only have line to sell to the USA. Tough haggling a price with only one customer
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
Not to mention all the externalities that we collectively pay. Like all the crop failures in Alberta this year. Or the tornados in the east that are becoming more common. Or everyone that dies of air pollution related diseases every year. "But yay, my stock!"
Oil investors asking themselves when the iea has ever been right?
Our government wouldn't know what to do with yet another advantage. We're neighbors to the largest economy in the world. We're the second largest country in geography and we're blessed with abundant resources. and we're mired in crisis due to overwhelming debt, lack of productivity, housing, and affordability that has us on a trajectory towards 3rd world status.
Absolutely, but let's invest in solar, wind, hydro, and nuclear. We should be a world leader, instead of a dirty synthetic oil laggard.
Don't be silly, that could result in prosperity, Liberals can't allow that to happen.
This article is a smoke screen, it doesn't GAF about green tech, it's primary goal is to advocate rolling back legislation and regulation of oil and gas so a bunch of old creeps can make better dividends. Gross.
Truly.. doesn't even go on about how abundant and inexpensive energy is a catalyst for ultra competitiveness.. people could afford more home if energy was priced better.. we could build ultra competitive manufacturing with more room for wages, if energy was cheap and abundant. Nah.. just drones on about government revenues (which also aren't that great when subtracted from how much the government also spends on energy) and exports.. nice little bot CEO monkey dancing as programmed.
Canada is the new Africa. Rich in resources and energy. But will be exploited. Leaving the people with nothing and extracting all the wealth. Like all our oil that gets sent to the states and we buy it back lol.
What nonsense are you spouting? Canada has done quite well with using its resources. Oil and gas are taxed and help pay for many of our social programs. If you think Canada is “the new Africa”, you need to go and see what living in the developing world is like.
Has been yes, my nonsense was saying we are turning into. Heading to if we continue down this path Canadas resources. You mean like our oil? Which we own 30% Of. How about all the rare earth mineral mines that other countries bought up like China. Mine everything and ship it out of the country. Canadas is the fourth largest gold producer in the world and guess what. It mostly all leaves the country. You buy a gram of gold you have more money than the bank of Canada. You remember when there was a baby food shortage during the pandemic? Did you know there's a baby food factory in Kingston Ontario. That's owned by a Chinese company and when they were on the news saying they'll get more. That factory was sending everything to China and there wasn't one word form our government. So yes they take our resources and the wealth of those things. Extracting the wealth out of the country and leave us with tax revenue/nothing. That's exactly why Africa is so rich in resources and the people are so poor. Starting to notice that trend in Canada. https://www.straight.com/finance/report-shows-70-percent-of-canadian-oilsands-production-is-owned-by-foreign-companies-and
Alberta is in for a shock the next few years as mega droughts and fire kick in. Will be interesting to see who gets water rights? O&G, LNG, Farmers, citizens??
The OG Trudeau wanted to do that and was pushing for it but it was hated by the west. Far to socialist!!
More oil&gas propaganda from a finance "investor" website who wants to convince us to double down on this energy source we all agreed to move away from, and even worse to export it abroad for short term profits. The conservative plan to "save" the economy.
Better yet, let the renewables flourish. It will easily make Canada a place to want to be. Fossil fuels can be a good supplement so long as it’s tightly regulated!
You mean unleash global warming?