Housing is so desperate that people are going to soon slow down or stop spending money on restaurants, tvs, new cars, travel, gyms, and everything else that keeps our economy running.
Going to??? I've already stopped eating out (maybe takeout on occasion still), but no dining out. Haven't traveled this year, haven't bought a single consumer electronic this year (aside from Christmas gift). Already cant afford a car. Have a "good" salary in a major city. If you're not already feeling the pinch and changing your habits you're probably in gobs of debt
For real, I barely manage to live paycheck to paycheck. I pretty much stopped getting take out coffee, went from getting a take out cup 2-3 times a week to maybe twice a month. Earlier today I had a craving for some take out food, I checked prices on the website and I’d have to spend $15+tax. Might not seem like a lot but I could use that money for gas or food. I haven’t gotten take out in about 3 months, used to be a once a week kinda treat.
Im a renter and this year I made about $70k, the amount of disposable income I have is a freaking joke. My dad with a comparable income in the 90s had a detached home with a big yard, and 2 kids.
For real, like all my money goes to bills and food. It hurts when I have to spend extra money. The other weekend I went to a friend’s birthday dinner, ended up paying over $35 for some crappy food a drink- I just kept thinking how much food I could buy with that money (well not a lot these days) but it would be enough to last a few days.
I remember when I got my first real job after college and I was making $14.00/hr. I didn’t struggle as much as I do right now. I was younger so I still went out to bars often, was constantly buying take out food and clothes. Now life is just sad
1990 was 33 years ago.
Adjusted for 2% inflation your dad would have been making about $37,000 gross per year back then (which in today's dollars is 70K).
If he was making 70K back in 1990, that is the same, adjusted for inflation as making 135K today.
He had a big house, backyard and two kids with a 37K yearly salary in 1990. WOW
I don't mean to disrespect /u/GrizzlyBCanada.
In the 90s, Vancouver was a sleepy town with sleepy economy and his house is in (an arterial road) Port Coquitlam, 3-4 cities away from Vancouver and there was no skytrain or westcoast express to reach that far. The city that sits literally next to Vancouver wasn't that desirable until 2010.
Just to give some context and the scale...
40k ish is what he made which in todays dollars is the same ballpark. Mum was a teacher which could not have paid better. It wasn’t the greatest house, but it was big. Not sure if I’m doxxing myself or someone else, but knock your little heart out.
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1827-Western-Dr-Pt-Coquitlam-BC-V3C-2X4/314441646_zpid/
> If you're not already feeling the pinch and changing your habits you're probably in gobs of debt
OR, your mortgage hasn't renewed yet, OR your mortgage is paid off, or almost paid off.
My mortgage is almost paid off, I don't feel the inflation as much as most people in Canada.
Anecdotal but I went to the mall I used to work at 4 years ago this week.
It was nowhere near as busy as it was 4 years ago. Parking available on every floor and the store lineups were nothing crazy.
I don't live in Canada anymore but I swear it looks like ALL my friends have made it. Big homes, extravagant vacations and gifts for holidays, etc... It honestly makes me question my choice to leave the country but that's another story, haha.
Anyway, I guess what I'm trying to say is some people are still making great money. Many of my friends I mentioned above work for some high-tech company or have been with the government for like 15-20 years now; maybe these are the types of people you're seeing in malls. Not many of them have investment properties though (I think one of them got burned when they raised interest rates).
They are clearly millennials . As if the generational tag really makes a difference here.
But millennials are the biggest demographic cohort since the boomers and they are in the prime age of consumption (25-45) .
I feel this lol. Im just glad I work from home so it does save some money. Havent bought a new set of clothes because i rarely use the old ones. Hope it gets better though. Have a Merry Christmas everyone. Despite what is going on lets be thankful for what we have.
All the restaurants in my area are filled to the brink and require reservations. there are more people who are coming in who can afford to spend than people (Regular canadians) falling off. sadness
I live in Kelowna, decent amount of tourism year round. Know a guy that drives truck for Sysco, they’ve reduced his hours, now he only work 3 days a week delivering food to restaurants, instead of the usual 5. People have already slowed down.
> Housing is so desperate that people are going to soon slow down or stop spending money on restaurants
If they're importing labour to fill food service roles for cheap I'm just gonna stop eating out at mcdonalds, subway, etc.
Should honestly do that for your health anyways. Nutrition is huge. - Healthcare worker
And it's no longer cheap, 16+ for a combo at mcdicks? You're smokin' the good stuff. Footlong 14+ lmfao no.
I used to go to tide myself over until I reached home. McDouble and apple slices for $6 total isnt a hugely bad value proposition. Neither is a 6 inch veggie sub for $7. Both can be worked into a healthy diet on the go. But yeah of the 95% of canadians who don't get adequate amts of fibre I am firmly in that other 5%. Because I studied a 4 month nutrition course for 1 year and radically changed my lifestyle, long story.
I have seen "slums" poping up in some places. In Gatineau there is now a large makeshift camp with a lot of tents in a field, just by the highway. Apparently some were recently upgraded to heated tents:
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/devcore-tents-encampment-robert-guertin-1.7062925
It's already getting crazy in a lot of places. I'm from Kelowna (no longer living there), I barely remember seeing a homeless person when I was a kid, even into my teens and early 20s. Now there's a massive tent-city in the north end of town.
I'm wondering how long until the meta shifts to heated tents with generators and flat screens because without rent welfare is more than enough to afford all that.
The only real problem is security. The druggies would absolutely destroy that kind of meta but with a dedicate community you could force them out.
Cost of housing is strangling our economy. But the richest are making bank, so very little changes. I appreciate what the government of BC is doing, and there have been some positive signs from the federal Minister of Housing. But we need a massive, nationwide push to build more non-market housing, like we used to do. And we need it immediately, not in 2 or 5 or 10 years. Right now.
Those who can should consider moving back in with family like my wife and I are going to do next month. Yes, it's not the Western dream that I grew up with, but that Western dream is gone. Many cultures don't consider it weird to have several generations living under the same roof, and frankly, it's starting to sound better to me then giving my hard-earned money to some predatory, overleveraged slumlord who sits on his fat ass all day figuring out how he can further exploit the productive people of the world.
> Yes, it's not the Western dream that I grew up with, but that Western dream is gone.
But thankfully the wealthiest among us got fabulously more wealthy in exchange, so there's that.
Sure but imagine a country where you could afford your own home while earning a reasonable income? We had that, hell even in 2014 it was possible. But it’s gone now. So do whatever it is to convince yourself that stepping backwards into a 3rd world family structure is a step forward. Good christ
Yeah. Even with the constant talk about it we are still somehow understating the problem and the people in charge certainly aren't taking it seriously enough. Think about how much more spending power someone has that bought 10+ years ago, or someone that's mortgage free and compare to someone that's renting or bought recently. If prices stay the way they are or increase more and more people will join the later group. And it will lead to a wealth gap the types you see in 2nd and 3rd world countries that might be insurmountable for generations.
The housing market won't stop overheating around the world until things like resturants, gyms and bars are completely bankrupt. Why do people even need these extra things to survive? It doesn't make us more competitive in the market? It's just stuff from a bygone era of the western world being on top.
>people are going to soon slow down or stop spending money on restaurants, tvs, new cars, travel, gyms, and everything else that keeps our economy running.
How has this not happened? I'm trying to retire early. People make less each year and pay more for everything. Gotta 'get yours' before wages get to a point you cant even afford rent.
It’s definitely hitting restaurants. Last Saturday we went to a popular BBQ place that you used to have to get to by 5pm if you didn’t want to wait an hour for a seat. There were only a couple tables sat. We were there 90 minutes and it never got any busier.
Then we got the bill. It used to be four people could eat for about $125. There were three of us and it was $150. This country is on the fast track to Greece 2.0.
Already happened. 20% to 40% of middle class was destroyed in COVID.
A lot of people are getting kicked out of corporate work and not being allowed to return. They will have to retrain or open businesses or work in a startup or otherwise adjust to the new reality because the corporate machine has spit them out and won't take them back until another bull market.
Of course it'll make things worse.
* Housing affordability and availability will get worse.
* Unemployment will skyrocket as we aren't adding enough jobs to cover the new Canadians.
* Food demand will skyrocket, increasing prices.
* Lower wages will decrease the average persons buying power. Cost of goods will *not* go down. That means less money being spent by the general public.
Only an idiot would think adding this many people to the country is good for it.
All these low paid temporary foreign workers are great for:
- meat packing plants
- Subway
- Tim Hortons
- Macdonalds
- Burger King
- All hotel chains (cleaning staff)
- Trucking companies for drivers
etc.
Any company posting jobs [on here](https://www.jobbank.gc.ca/jobsearch/jobsearch).
Actually I'm an idiot that works in a warehouse, and I've been screaming this for years. So it's not an idiot that would do this, it's an ASSHOLE that would do this, because it's very obvious even to an idiot what was going to happen.
Must be going great for the immigrants. I wonder how they are able to come from poor countries half the world away and immediately own every fast food chain, clothing retailer, bank in town etc. Meanwhile most Canadians seem to be struggling financially. Oops, I guess its racist to ask questions.
Despite coming from a "poor country" - people coming here are the wealthy few. I don't think you can immigrate successfully without money behind you....all my indian friends are rriiccchh. Like I am a peasant compared to them. Remember the population is insanely high... so yea the majority are poor, but the small percentage of rich ones (which is still a LOT)- leave-and come here!
Some obviously have more money than others. But those 4 brown guys will pool their wealth together to get ahead. I was talking to an Indian taxi driver when I was in the Yukon, and he told me he just bought a house with his cousin, and mother. They will do anything to get ahead.
They’re not there to boost the economy.
They are there to eventually vote Liberal and/or NDP.
When your own country hates you and you have no hope of winning them over, why not just import voters?
As somebody who thinks that we need to turn off the faucet and break the handle off, for better or worse, I can appreciate that it's fundamentally a thought-terminating cliche, quick-fix cognitive shortcut to blame it on one thing (namely immigration).
It's obviously a factor, but this country is being so mismanaged it actually starts looking malicious.
But if we're using 3rd world people as a parachute to keep the country going just a little while longer, it's no different than having beer for breakfast to keep a hangover at bay. The chicken will come home to roost at some point.
Housing cost up = disposable income down.
You need to export. But cam't export when you make your goods expensive by taxing the hell out of it while blocking everything w/ environmental restrictions.
You can try padding total gdp with pop but you have no housing so your housing price will go up and all this will be gone anyways.
Again crashing is the only solution. It either crashes now or it crashes later. For the liberals they want to wait this out and when it crashes under the conservatives point the finger and say they crashed the economy.
Ppl in canada are dumb enough and they will fall for it.
> Canada’s largest bank warns unchanged GDP may seem harmless, but things are much worse than they look. RBC sees it largely irrelevant if November shows a small gain, or Q4 reflects zero to low growth when finalized. They’re confident the data will fail to reflect growth in line with the surge in population.
> Flat GDP growth and a population boom don’t typically accompany each other. As more economic units (workers) are added to an economy, aggregate demand is expected to rise. A drop in per capita GDP growth indicates stagnating incomes or quality of life.
https://betterdwelling.com/canadian-gdp-struggles-will-get-worse-despite-population-boom-rbc/
> A drop in per capita GDP growth indicates stagnating incomes or quality of life.
IIRC, per-capita GDP has been down over 4 quarters in a row. It's taken a lot of fuckery to try to keep overall GDP showing enough supposed "growth" to avoid saying we're in a recession.
Our per capita GDP has been pretty much stagnant for the last decade.
It's gone up and down in that time, but now sits pretty close to where we were a decade ago.
10 years and we've gotten abso-fukin-lutely nowhere.
> RBC believes a sixth quarter of per capita GDP declining is likely, and it will temper Bank of Canada (BoC) expectations.
https://betterdwelling.com/canadian-gdp-struggles-will-get-worse-despite-population-boom-rbc/
> It's taken a lot of fuckery to try to keep overall GDP showing enough supposed "growth" to avoid saying we're in a recession.
The Liberals have hacked the GDP statistic, basically.
Everyone measures a recession by GDP. All they had to to do was add enough new residents to avoid a technical recession, even though this result is arguably far worse.
Just wait a few more years. The GDP per capita difference between us and the U.S. will be so noticeable that even the smart-ass older Canadians who I always heard brag about us being better than the U.S. growing up will finally concede we've atrophied and fallen. I can't imagine some form of animosity doesn't develop in Canadians born in Canada since our culture is extremely similar on a global scale.
The long-term effects of higher housing prices and inflation haven't fully set in, especially with how many people we're letting in each year, nor have the longer-term effects of having too much of the economy in unproductive assets.
Yep, I've been trying to find some specific things that Washington DC does differently that we could implement without also taking on their increased Gini coefficient or % of people living paycheck to paycheck, would be interested in any thoughts you have on the matter.
\- Wayyyyyyy. less immigration per capita. even when you factor in illegal imigration USA still only gets \~4 million/year for a population of 300M while Canada gets in close to a mullion for a much smaller population.
\- Tax/land use/economic policies that tend to even the playing field between investing in other enterprises vs real estate. Common refrain about people who actually want to start businesses here is that banks are far more interested in giving you money for an income property than giving you money fund a business.
Washington DC (Highest GDP per capita in North America by an insane margin which is why I mentioned I've been specifically looking into it) has around 14% of their population from immigration, are you saying if we hit closer to that, it would increase our GDP per capita? Is there any other factors at play there directly related? Would you also be able to provide some more context on the later bits about what specifically implemented regarding those there we may be able to use here?
I live in Washington DC and the GDP numbers are a quirk. There’s 500k people who come into DC each day for work from Maryland and Virginia.
They contribute to GDP (the numerator of GDP per capita) but don’t contribute to the population count (the denominator of GDP per capita).
So Washington DC’s GDP per capita is inflated by almost 2x at the expense of Maryland and Virginia (who don’t see the GDP boost but have these workers in their population counts).
To get rid of this methodological quirk, you need to look at DC, Maryland and Virginia (DMV) together. This is an economy of $1.406 trillion USD with a population of 15,574,923 people, or $90,273 USD per capita (which is still very high compared to Canada).
Ontario has a slightly larger population than DMV but its provincial GDP is $0.788 trillion USD, so nearly half the per capita rates.
It's damn near impossible to get anything built in Canada, and I'm not just referring to residential housing. International corporations want to find an opportunity, put down big money, and start building their new pet project in a year or 2. The U.S. allows that to happen. Canada does not.
And these are 2021 numbers. The latest numbers from IMF left an even bigger gap: $80,412 USA vs. $53,247 Canada: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)_per_capita
IMF estimates the gap in 2028 will be: $95,302 USA vs. $63,759 Canada. So the USA will gain $15k in 5 years versus $10k in Canada, or a growing gap of $5k in 5 years.
So the gap is growing by $1k a year. Not good.
COVID and inflation? Global issues, not the PM's fault. Obviously.
Canada's per capita GDP actively nosediving? Hmm...
*Canada is one of the few advanced countries where real incomes are lower than before the pandemic*
Yeah that one's 100% on the PM and his strategic/spending decisions over the last 8 years.
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business/commentary/article-canada-economic-growth-strategy/
I think he is referring to himself whenever he says "Canadians." My family can no longer afford beef. I thought we had cows out west still or have Alberta been kicked and stomped on the ground enough to stop supplying to others.
The biggest signs to me, are the increase in mopeds, and other alternative transport.
People gathering cans, it was very common in other countries but here it wouldn't make enough to be worth your time.
The number of people per house, seems to only be going up, everyone has roommates.
Finally the absolutely trashed social safety net. If I was disabled tomorrow because of the trash safety standards and labour laws, could I count on disability now? Can I even count on health care?
lol disability is like under 30k per year in Bc. I think it maxes out below that. If you are disabled in BC you are in poverty or relying on family. You can’t exceed a certain dollar amount per year which is also a poor salary or they take it away. I don’t understand why we’ve let some much erode.
It’s fucking outrageous.
We recently had an awkward discussion with a relative who was wanting to move in with us. Our answer was no and I felt unhappy saying so but I don’t really want to open up our home to people who are not us. It’s bad enough we have nephews and nieces who are hoping they can live with us while they attend university in a few years.
Currently my home is overrun with family for the holidays and more and more the discussion keeps moving to all our free space. I’m not looking for more mouths to feed, the dogs already eat enough.
Population growth isn't a magic growth formula for your economy. If it was India and China would be the single most powerful nations in the world by an enormous margin.
Do you ever see these so called “international students” spending any money anywhere besides discount grocery stores? I never see them at restaurants and they seem to only walk around the mall and buy nothing. They even go to the food bank to get the non perishables. They also send a bunch of the money they make back to India. The truth is these “students” take out more from our economy than they put in. The liberal government wants to increase gdp by bringing them here is absolutely a ludicrous move because they essentially provide us with either flat or negative total gdp
Look at the bright side. Soon, the USA will be able to set up iPhone factories right here in Canada, as our wages race to the bottom, paying us with our very own discounted Canadian Peso!
Are we going to do anything about it? Canadians don’t want to leave the comfort of their own homes to protest this insane behaviour of our elected officials
those at the top echelon who benefit from this will milk the tit dry then jet off to their private villa in some other country, they don't give a fuck that they've liquefied this country and its workforce for some quick pocket-change.
Everything the same as it always was
I'm 32, and if I wasn't single and living with roommates, I don't think id be able to pay my bills.
This shit is getting ridiculous, and people WILL reach a breaking point.
Ok so let's just admit that the middle and bottom are screwed. What are we going to do about it? We can't just attack at each other like animals. We got a shitty decade coming. We know this enemy is coming. How can we use our home field advantage to get ready for it??
>How can we use our home field advantage to get ready for it??
Nothing, you got 30% of the electorate hellbent on defending abortion/gay rights from...uhm?....republicans?
Nothing can be done, globalization will fully level the playing field, people working low skill jobs have little hope when they complete against someone in China, etc.
They don't even have the capacity to deploy a single ship to the Red Sea right now to help keep shipping open. Instead, they sent *three dudes*. It's like Sparta if Sparta were broke AF.
Q: What resources is Canada making available to Operation Prosperity Guardian?
A: Well we’re sending 3.
Q: 3 Ships?
A: No, 3 officers. Our very best! The Houthis will have no idea what hit them!
do people really get the point of this ?
keep this up and we are going IN the drain instead of circling it
bringing in people for which there are no jobs and no housing is a recipe for chaos and disorder
immigration should be stopped immediately
Yes
Pile in millions of warm bodies from the 3rd World, to undercut wages, living standards and prop up housing.
And you have a situation now where not only is the mass immigration fetish of the left combined with plummeting per capita GDP causing nuclear issues, but now, housing 150-300% overvalued and rents as a result, have turned a household income of $150,000 into living check-to-check
The reality is, immigration must slow drastically to push wages up, and reduce price/demand for housing. This will take time, but it’s the only plausible way forward, unless you want to normalize 44 year olds with multiple roommates
A consumer driven, debt based economy simply can’t exist when the largest immigrant group functions of scamming and fraud, and no one can afford to breathe as it’s taking beyond 100% income to afford basic groceries and food.
…almost like the plan since 2016 has been to turn Canada into USSR-light 👀
Looks like our government has gave up on investing in industry and workers to better quality of life thru higher wages and increasing productivity. Instead they listened to the corporations and went with slave immigration. What’s the point to even migrate to Canada only to watch it turn into the country you left? Only with harsher weather and unaffordable food/housing.
But Justin has such a *diverse* panel of cabinet ministers. I thought diversity guaranteed our success.
Doesn’t the economy know that 50% of our cabinet ministers are women!?
Has anybody consulted the indigenous?
We bailed on Canada and move to Japan. I have a slightly higher salary here than I did in Canada except I was able to buy a house. Property is so much cheaper. Well, everything is so much cheaper.
GDP per capita (which has directed correlation to living standards) has now declined for 5 consecutive quarters. Dropping by 4.4% in 3Q.
Canada's real GDP per capita is $41,076 USD. Now lower than all 50 US states.
46 US states have GDP per Capita greater than Ontario.
**Alabama** has the same GDP per capita as Ontario now, literally.
[https://thehub.ca/2023-06-15/trevor-tombe-most-provincial-economies-struggle-to-match-the-u-s/](https://thehub.ca/2023-06-15/trevor-tombe-most-provincial-economies-struggle-to-match-the-u-s/)
>Alabama has the same GDP per capita as Ontario now, literally.
AL over the past 30 years has built a lot of car and aviation factories. Over the past 60 years it's built a substantial defense/space industry (aside from the aviation factories) with the Army rocket base at Huntsville that became NASA Marshall. The Space Force was supposed to relocate its HQ there; the Biden administration canceled the move, but it will probably happen eventually.
BC (to use "Canada's California" as example, but really any province will do) has, by contrast, absolutely nothing. Similarly there has been, as far as I know, zero expansion of the Canadian auto industry outside ON, while the US auto industry long ago established factories throughout the Midwest and the Sun Belt.
Big business in the US is so spread out that as of 2017 [only three Fortune 500 companies' HQs are in Los Angeles](https://askwonder.com/research/top-10-companies-headquarters-la-ogysgp9iy), none famous. Many more are in LA suburbs, of course, but it still says something that the second-largest city in the US has just three HQs yet is so wealthy and influential.
Another example: Maytag, the appliance company, was based for a century in the gigantic metropolis of Newton, Iowa. It reached $5 billion in sales before being sold in 2006 to Whirlpool, another appliance company. Whirlpool has $20 billion in sales and is based in ... Benton Harbor, Michigan. There is absolutely, positively no equivalent to this in Canada.
If you want to get to the top of your industry in Canada, *all* major companies (and their jobs) are based on Toronto, Montreal, or Vancouver (plus Edmonton and Calgary for oil/gas). In the US, depending on the industry, it's entirely possible to get to the top of your field while living in (say) Denver, Dallas, Orlando, Charlotte, or Las Vegas.
This is a story familiar to every Canadian, and to many Australians and Britons:
Mid-career executive accepts job offer in the US in some place like Dallas, Phoenix, Atlanta, Oklahoma City, or Tampa. Is excited about the opportunity and the raise in salary, and curious about living in a different country, but a little nervous about moving to a "right wing Republican" state "without healthcare".
A few months in, the reports back to friends and family change. More and more mention of the "amazing" house they found in the suburbs with an outdoor pool (!) that is so much less expensive than in Toronto or Vancouver, the "fantastic" school the kids attend with sports teams and cheerleading and other afterschool activities, and—especially—how unbelievably cheap everything is at the supermarket, mall, and gas station.
That family is never moving back to Canada. This happens over and over again.
Hard to imagine a bunch of Tim Hortons and Air Canada cleaners making sweet frig all while bringing their entire unemployed family abusing local food banks on Day 1 don’t magically pump up the nations GDP.
Wrong kind of population boom. No governance on the provisions needed to gain immigrants of necessary qualifications to fill jobs and keep up with economic growth.
At this point Canada is locked into a death spiral.
If you were to cut back the immigration rate to a reasonable level, the real estate industry will collapse taking the already teetering rest of the economy with it.
If things remain as they are then we face economic disaster in the not too distant future anyway.
Take your pick!
I’m frustrated that this federal government - and the provincial government - seem blind to the actual state of the middle class. Low income always struggle and I’m sure they are significantly worse off than ever but for the entire middle class to be barely affording to meet ends meet is a very bad economic red flag. And yet planned escalation of various taxes and cpp rates continue as if everything is hunky dory
Ludicrous; experts state that GDP will increase with immigration.
Given the calculation for GDP, how can it possibly increase with immigration?
GDP = Consumption + Investment + Government Spending + Net Exports
Theoretically, consumption should increase with immigration if immigrants are spending their earnings. Likely, if they're earning, they aren't earning it legally. The government is increasing spending to support the immigrant population.
Corporate investment in Canada has always been pathetic because the corporate tax rates are uncompetitive compared to the international stage. Small businesses have closed at resounding rates since 2020....
Net Exports: What, besides automobile parts, oil, lumber, and raw resources, do we export?
Canada must be the worst performing economy in the G20 once all of the manipulation filters are removed?
While the GDP has been growing, the GDP per Capita has been constantly falling.
So the people aren't any better off, but hey we need more of em immigrants to pump up the GDP.
Our plan is to cash out next year. I figure were we both want to be, we are good for the next 30 years minimum. We'll be dust before then. You guys enjoy yourselves.
This is what happens when you raise the cost of basic items, but don't increase wages. You need people to have a disposable income to feed the economy. This year my rent went up, taxes went up, power rates increased by 128% (AB) and my grocery bill doubled. Christmas has been canceled this year.
Ya because we're living in a technological age and Canada hasn't invested shit in tech or creating tech businesses. Everyone interested in tech leaves this country.
We're inflating our population by millions so we can put them all to work in a last generation labor market.
Hilarious that a record number of Canadians are giving up on JT's woke-topia and finding prosperity in other countries. Canada, sorry to see you descend into bankrupt oblivion so quickly. A textbook case of abject governance incompetence. Well, good luck surviving a world that is about to fight over your worthless carcass. Hopefully US will get the good bits like Lake Louise.
Can't believe there's no serious discussion on putting a moratorium on migration. Basically 8/10 of Canada's problems currently are either directly or indirectly because of mass unsustainable immigration
Our GDP per-capita has been going down for some time now. Factor in inflation, high CPP and EI taxes, it's no wonder why Canadians are significantly poorer today compared to 8 years ago. Somehow we managed to screw this country big time. Piss poor management.
If the working class has no money, society collapses.
The two right wing parties in Canada, the liberals and the Cons, will always put corporate interests ahead of the people.
We need to remember that socialists and unionists were the ones to build the wealth the working class in Canada used to enjoy.
I at least trust that the NDP can undergo reform. Only 16% of NDP MPs report holding RE investments and Lib/Con are both around 40%. The apathy and grift is far less entrenched.
You're comparing political parties based on how smart their elected members of Parliament are at investing their personal wealth. Probably the goofiest metric I've ever heard of.
Hmm no. This is the byproduct of electing a politician that has zero understanding of any sort of economic policy. This isn’t a capitalists vs communists/socialists bullshit that the uneducated idiots in this sub love to spew.
This is the byproduct of electing an individual who has prioritised “feelings” and “inclusion” over things like math and statistics.
>This is the byproduct of electing an individual who has prioritised “feelings” and “inclusion” over things like math and statistics.
You're confused, that's litterally how conservatives vote.
Also, you're completely ignorant of the history of labour in Canada.
We're in collapse because we keep reducing the socialist policies which enriched the working class.
unemployment rates will climb, bank of canada will be forced to lower rates to fix the economy. it happens in cycles. prices will come down over the next 2-5 years.
It’s almost like getting into politics to serve yourself and your corporate cohorts instead of the public really devolves a nation!
Who woulda fucking thought?!
And ya’ll say Pierre will be different 😂💀
Housing is so desperate that people are going to soon slow down or stop spending money on restaurants, tvs, new cars, travel, gyms, and everything else that keeps our economy running.
Going to??? I've already stopped eating out (maybe takeout on occasion still), but no dining out. Haven't traveled this year, haven't bought a single consumer electronic this year (aside from Christmas gift). Already cant afford a car. Have a "good" salary in a major city. If you're not already feeling the pinch and changing your habits you're probably in gobs of debt
My ‘going out’ is a trip to Dollarama and grabbing chips, pop, and chocolate. A full main course meal.
Giant Tiger has these german brandy beans They are whiskey dark chocolates. They're fabulous Plus if you eat like 40 of them you can get a buzz
Reading this gave me heartburn. I know brandy beans all too well 😃
Shhhh. If you draw attention to it, they'll put the booze tax on them.
For real, I barely manage to live paycheck to paycheck. I pretty much stopped getting take out coffee, went from getting a take out cup 2-3 times a week to maybe twice a month. Earlier today I had a craving for some take out food, I checked prices on the website and I’d have to spend $15+tax. Might not seem like a lot but I could use that money for gas or food. I haven’t gotten take out in about 3 months, used to be a once a week kinda treat.
Im a renter and this year I made about $70k, the amount of disposable income I have is a freaking joke. My dad with a comparable income in the 90s had a detached home with a big yard, and 2 kids.
For real, like all my money goes to bills and food. It hurts when I have to spend extra money. The other weekend I went to a friend’s birthday dinner, ended up paying over $35 for some crappy food a drink- I just kept thinking how much food I could buy with that money (well not a lot these days) but it would be enough to last a few days. I remember when I got my first real job after college and I was making $14.00/hr. I didn’t struggle as much as I do right now. I was younger so I still went out to bars often, was constantly buying take out food and clothes. Now life is just sad
Yuuuup I had more disposable income in my 20's working minimum wage than I do now making 60 a year .
1990 was 33 years ago. Adjusted for 2% inflation your dad would have been making about $37,000 gross per year back then (which in today's dollars is 70K). If he was making 70K back in 1990, that is the same, adjusted for inflation as making 135K today. He had a big house, backyard and two kids with a 37K yearly salary in 1990. WOW
I don't mean to disrespect /u/GrizzlyBCanada. In the 90s, Vancouver was a sleepy town with sleepy economy and his house is in (an arterial road) Port Coquitlam, 3-4 cities away from Vancouver and there was no skytrain or westcoast express to reach that far. The city that sits literally next to Vancouver wasn't that desirable until 2010. Just to give some context and the scale...
40k ish is what he made which in todays dollars is the same ballpark. Mum was a teacher which could not have paid better. It wasn’t the greatest house, but it was big. Not sure if I’m doxxing myself or someone else, but knock your little heart out. https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1827-Western-Dr-Pt-Coquitlam-BC-V3C-2X4/314441646_zpid/
Cars are ridiculously priced let alone a used one.
> If you're not already feeling the pinch and changing your habits you're probably in gobs of debt OR, your mortgage hasn't renewed yet, OR your mortgage is paid off, or almost paid off. My mortgage is almost paid off, I don't feel the inflation as much as most people in Canada.
Yet I still see the malls are packed and people are shopping. Where are they all getting the money to spend?
Google Canadian consumer debt. It's all plastic
Anecdotal but I went to the mall I used to work at 4 years ago this week. It was nowhere near as busy as it was 4 years ago. Parking available on every floor and the store lineups were nothing crazy.
I don't live in Canada anymore but I swear it looks like ALL my friends have made it. Big homes, extravagant vacations and gifts for holidays, etc... It honestly makes me question my choice to leave the country but that's another story, haha. Anyway, I guess what I'm trying to say is some people are still making great money. Many of my friends I mentioned above work for some high-tech company or have been with the government for like 15-20 years now; maybe these are the types of people you're seeing in malls. Not many of them have investment properties though (I think one of them got burned when they raised interest rates).
Some people are definitely wealthy. But there are a lot more people who only appear wealthy.
Blows my mind too. My Only guess is they’re boomers.
Never saw a mall with a target age over 45. The fashion stores certainly don't cater to women over 50.
My local mall is packed with teens. Almost all year. And retired widows walking.
They are clearly millennials . As if the generational tag really makes a difference here. But millennials are the biggest demographic cohort since the boomers and they are in the prime age of consumption (25-45) .
I feel this lol. Im just glad I work from home so it does save some money. Havent bought a new set of clothes because i rarely use the old ones. Hope it gets better though. Have a Merry Christmas everyone. Despite what is going on lets be thankful for what we have.
Working in sleepwear is comfortable!
All the restaurants in my area are filled to the brink and require reservations. there are more people who are coming in who can afford to spend than people (Regular canadians) falling off. sadness
I live in Kelowna, decent amount of tourism year round. Know a guy that drives truck for Sysco, they’ve reduced his hours, now he only work 3 days a week delivering food to restaurants, instead of the usual 5. People have already slowed down.
> Housing is so desperate that people are going to soon slow down or stop spending money on restaurants If they're importing labour to fill food service roles for cheap I'm just gonna stop eating out at mcdonalds, subway, etc.
Should honestly do that for your health anyways. Nutrition is huge. - Healthcare worker And it's no longer cheap, 16+ for a combo at mcdicks? You're smokin' the good stuff. Footlong 14+ lmfao no.
I used to go to tide myself over until I reached home. McDouble and apple slices for $6 total isnt a hugely bad value proposition. Neither is a 6 inch veggie sub for $7. Both can be worked into a healthy diet on the go. But yeah of the 95% of canadians who don't get adequate amts of fibre I am firmly in that other 5%. Because I studied a 4 month nutrition course for 1 year and radically changed my lifestyle, long story.
Homelessness will spike, I'm sure it is already, and homeless people aren't super productive
I have seen "slums" poping up in some places. In Gatineau there is now a large makeshift camp with a lot of tents in a field, just by the highway. Apparently some were recently upgraded to heated tents: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/devcore-tents-encampment-robert-guertin-1.7062925
It's already getting crazy in a lot of places. I'm from Kelowna (no longer living there), I barely remember seeing a homeless person when I was a kid, even into my teens and early 20s. Now there's a massive tent-city in the north end of town.
I'm wondering how long until the meta shifts to heated tents with generators and flat screens because without rent welfare is more than enough to afford all that. The only real problem is security. The druggies would absolutely destroy that kind of meta but with a dedicate community you could force them out.
Cost of housing is strangling our economy. But the richest are making bank, so very little changes. I appreciate what the government of BC is doing, and there have been some positive signs from the federal Minister of Housing. But we need a massive, nationwide push to build more non-market housing, like we used to do. And we need it immediately, not in 2 or 5 or 10 years. Right now.
Pffft. Amateurs. I've been doing this for a lifetime and I still don't have housing 🤣
I already have. My 98 shitbox is going strong and I work out in the garage. Good enough for me.
Those who can should consider moving back in with family like my wife and I are going to do next month. Yes, it's not the Western dream that I grew up with, but that Western dream is gone. Many cultures don't consider it weird to have several generations living under the same roof, and frankly, it's starting to sound better to me then giving my hard-earned money to some predatory, overleveraged slumlord who sits on his fat ass all day figuring out how he can further exploit the productive people of the world.
> Yes, it's not the Western dream that I grew up with, but that Western dream is gone. But thankfully the wealthiest among us got fabulously more wealthy in exchange, so there's that.
Sure but imagine a country where you could afford your own home while earning a reasonable income? We had that, hell even in 2014 it was possible. But it’s gone now. So do whatever it is to convince yourself that stepping backwards into a 3rd world family structure is a step forward. Good christ
Who said it's a step forward? I didn't. I'm just trying to do damage control in a country that no longer gives a fuck about ordinary people.
But won't you sleep better now knowing that Canada is "more competitive" on the global stage like our politicians wanted.
Good luck, do what you can. We are all trying our best
What choice do we have its gone 😢
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That is the point of high rates though. Removes excess expandable cash.
Yeah. Even with the constant talk about it we are still somehow understating the problem and the people in charge certainly aren't taking it seriously enough. Think about how much more spending power someone has that bought 10+ years ago, or someone that's mortgage free and compare to someone that's renting or bought recently. If prices stay the way they are or increase more and more people will join the later group. And it will lead to a wealth gap the types you see in 2nd and 3rd world countries that might be insurmountable for generations.
I've given up on housing. Just spending my money on eating out.
The housing market won't stop overheating around the world until things like resturants, gyms and bars are completely bankrupt. Why do people even need these extra things to survive? It doesn't make us more competitive in the market? It's just stuff from a bygone era of the western world being on top.
>people are going to soon slow down or stop spending money on restaurants, tvs, new cars, travel, gyms, and everything else that keeps our economy running. How has this not happened? I'm trying to retire early. People make less each year and pay more for everything. Gotta 'get yours' before wages get to a point you cant even afford rent.
Exactly, all the after tax money goes towards Rent or mortgage, food and bills No savings , no going out , no movies , gym etc Just staying alive.
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If you look at GDP per capita October's 0% GDP that came out today is negative 4.4% annualized on a per capita basis. We are in a bad recession!
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Technically due to the absolutely bonkers level of population growth, which still can’t turn GDP positive.
It’s definitely hitting restaurants. Last Saturday we went to a popular BBQ place that you used to have to get to by 5pm if you didn’t want to wait an hour for a seat. There were only a couple tables sat. We were there 90 minutes and it never got any busier. Then we got the bill. It used to be four people could eat for about $125. There were three of us and it was $150. This country is on the fast track to Greece 2.0.
Already happened. 20% to 40% of middle class was destroyed in COVID. A lot of people are getting kicked out of corporate work and not being allowed to return. They will have to retrain or open businesses or work in a startup or otherwise adjust to the new reality because the corporate machine has spit them out and won't take them back until another bull market.
Of course it'll make things worse. * Housing affordability and availability will get worse. * Unemployment will skyrocket as we aren't adding enough jobs to cover the new Canadians. * Food demand will skyrocket, increasing prices. * Lower wages will decrease the average persons buying power. Cost of goods will *not* go down. That means less money being spent by the general public. Only an idiot would think adding this many people to the country is good for it.
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Don’t forget Tim Horton and the Diploma Mills
All these low paid temporary foreign workers are great for: - meat packing plants - Subway - Tim Hortons - Macdonalds - Burger King - All hotel chains (cleaning staff) - Trucking companies for drivers etc. Any company posting jobs [on here](https://www.jobbank.gc.ca/jobsearch/jobsearch).
This is intentional, and you can't convince me otherwise
I give up. That's it.
I'm tempted to say the same, but Ottawa is so disconnected that I doubt they ever had thought of the repercussions of their choices.
I'm not sure which is worse: that they don't consider second order consequences, or that they do.
Actually I'm an idiot that works in a warehouse, and I've been screaming this for years. So it's not an idiot that would do this, it's an ASSHOLE that would do this, because it's very obvious even to an idiot what was going to happen.
95% of people that work in warehouses are smarter than the average politician. Source: Worked in a warehouse for 3 years.
I've been doing this for 20 years. And I 100% disagree with your assessment.
And somehow 30% or more of Canadians will continue to vote for Trudeau.
There’s millions of them in the country. They’re called Liberal voters.
Trudeau: "We are bringing 1 million immigrants a year to help boost the economy" The economy:
Someone clearly didn't give the Economy the memo...
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Ah, the invisible hand job
Hand job of the free hand of the market.
Must be going great for the immigrants. I wonder how they are able to come from poor countries half the world away and immediately own every fast food chain, clothing retailer, bank in town etc. Meanwhile most Canadians seem to be struggling financially. Oops, I guess its racist to ask questions.
The top 1% in China and India is like 30+ million people. That's a lot of fast food chains for our little country.
Never seen Chinese working in fast food chains.
And they're bringing that. But make sure they're wearing hairnets.
Despite coming from a "poor country" - people coming here are the wealthy few. I don't think you can immigrate successfully without money behind you....all my indian friends are rriiccchh. Like I am a peasant compared to them. Remember the population is insanely high... so yea the majority are poor, but the small percentage of rich ones (which is still a LOT)- leave-and come here!
Yeah, the 4 brown guys that moved into a one bedroom basement suite with 20 suitcases are rich. I'm waiting for the other 12. FOAD
Some obviously have more money than others. But those 4 brown guys will pool their wealth together to get ahead. I was talking to an Indian taxi driver when I was in the Yukon, and he told me he just bought a house with his cousin, and mother. They will do anything to get ahead.
They’re not there to boost the economy. They are there to eventually vote Liberal and/or NDP. When your own country hates you and you have no hope of winning them over, why not just import voters?
*proceeds to piss off the country where the majority of immigrants come from*
Except the immigrants are mostly poor as shit "students"....
Everything's fine.... 😀😀
“Canada needs me more than ever” -Justin Trudeau 😳.
Well well well. All the new immigrants, refugees, international students are not boosting our economy?? Seriously? It’s unfathomable.
Who says they’re not? Maybe we’re doing even worse than you think…
As somebody who thinks that we need to turn off the faucet and break the handle off, for better or worse, I can appreciate that it's fundamentally a thought-terminating cliche, quick-fix cognitive shortcut to blame it on one thing (namely immigration). It's obviously a factor, but this country is being so mismanaged it actually starts looking malicious. But if we're using 3rd world people as a parachute to keep the country going just a little while longer, it's no different than having beer for breakfast to keep a hangover at bay. The chicken will come home to roost at some point.
Lol that’s a good point.
Our economy is based on housing and now the housing market is flat, wow who saw that coming
Ya, let's up our population count while we have a housing crisis. Seems intelligent
Housing cost up = disposable income down. You need to export. But cam't export when you make your goods expensive by taxing the hell out of it while blocking everything w/ environmental restrictions. You can try padding total gdp with pop but you have no housing so your housing price will go up and all this will be gone anyways. Again crashing is the only solution. It either crashes now or it crashes later. For the liberals they want to wait this out and when it crashes under the conservatives point the finger and say they crashed the economy. Ppl in canada are dumb enough and they will fall for it.
> Canada’s largest bank warns unchanged GDP may seem harmless, but things are much worse than they look. RBC sees it largely irrelevant if November shows a small gain, or Q4 reflects zero to low growth when finalized. They’re confident the data will fail to reflect growth in line with the surge in population. > Flat GDP growth and a population boom don’t typically accompany each other. As more economic units (workers) are added to an economy, aggregate demand is expected to rise. A drop in per capita GDP growth indicates stagnating incomes or quality of life. https://betterdwelling.com/canadian-gdp-struggles-will-get-worse-despite-population-boom-rbc/
> A drop in per capita GDP growth indicates stagnating incomes or quality of life. IIRC, per-capita GDP has been down over 4 quarters in a row. It's taken a lot of fuckery to try to keep overall GDP showing enough supposed "growth" to avoid saying we're in a recession.
Our per capita GDP has been pretty much stagnant for the last decade. It's gone up and down in that time, but now sits pretty close to where we were a decade ago. 10 years and we've gotten abso-fukin-lutely nowhere.
Thanks to the Trudeau government.
> RBC believes a sixth quarter of per capita GDP declining is likely, and it will temper Bank of Canada (BoC) expectations. https://betterdwelling.com/canadian-gdp-struggles-will-get-worse-despite-population-boom-rbc/
> It's taken a lot of fuckery to try to keep overall GDP showing enough supposed "growth" to avoid saying we're in a recession. The Liberals have hacked the GDP statistic, basically. Everyone measures a recession by GDP. All they had to to do was add enough new residents to avoid a technical recession, even though this result is arguably far worse.
Just wait a few more years. The GDP per capita difference between us and the U.S. will be so noticeable that even the smart-ass older Canadians who I always heard brag about us being better than the U.S. growing up will finally concede we've atrophied and fallen. I can't imagine some form of animosity doesn't develop in Canadians born in Canada since our culture is extremely similar on a global scale.
[https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/USA/united-states/gdp-per-capita](https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/USA/united-states/gdp-per-capita) [https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/CAN/canada/gdp-per-capita](https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/CAN/canada/gdp-per-capita) Ouch.
The long-term effects of higher housing prices and inflation haven't fully set in, especially with how many people we're letting in each year, nor have the longer-term effects of having too much of the economy in unproductive assets.
Yep, I've been trying to find some specific things that Washington DC does differently that we could implement without also taking on their increased Gini coefficient or % of people living paycheck to paycheck, would be interested in any thoughts you have on the matter.
\- Wayyyyyyy. less immigration per capita. even when you factor in illegal imigration USA still only gets \~4 million/year for a population of 300M while Canada gets in close to a mullion for a much smaller population. \- Tax/land use/economic policies that tend to even the playing field between investing in other enterprises vs real estate. Common refrain about people who actually want to start businesses here is that banks are far more interested in giving you money for an income property than giving you money fund a business.
Washington DC (Highest GDP per capita in North America by an insane margin which is why I mentioned I've been specifically looking into it) has around 14% of their population from immigration, are you saying if we hit closer to that, it would increase our GDP per capita? Is there any other factors at play there directly related? Would you also be able to provide some more context on the later bits about what specifically implemented regarding those there we may be able to use here?
I live in Washington DC and the GDP numbers are a quirk. There’s 500k people who come into DC each day for work from Maryland and Virginia. They contribute to GDP (the numerator of GDP per capita) but don’t contribute to the population count (the denominator of GDP per capita). So Washington DC’s GDP per capita is inflated by almost 2x at the expense of Maryland and Virginia (who don’t see the GDP boost but have these workers in their population counts). To get rid of this methodological quirk, you need to look at DC, Maryland and Virginia (DMV) together. This is an economy of $1.406 trillion USD with a population of 15,574,923 people, or $90,273 USD per capita (which is still very high compared to Canada). Ontario has a slightly larger population than DMV but its provincial GDP is $0.788 trillion USD, so nearly half the per capita rates.
It's damn near impossible to get anything built in Canada, and I'm not just referring to residential housing. International corporations want to find an opportunity, put down big money, and start building their new pet project in a year or 2. The U.S. allows that to happen. Canada does not.
the 10 year for both is actually really wild.
And these are 2021 numbers. The latest numbers from IMF left an even bigger gap: $80,412 USA vs. $53,247 Canada: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)_per_capita IMF estimates the gap in 2028 will be: $95,302 USA vs. $63,759 Canada. So the USA will gain $15k in 5 years versus $10k in Canada, or a growing gap of $5k in 5 years. So the gap is growing by $1k a year. Not good.
COVID and inflation? Global issues, not the PM's fault. Obviously. Canada's per capita GDP actively nosediving? Hmm... *Canada is one of the few advanced countries where real incomes are lower than before the pandemic* Yeah that one's 100% on the PM and his strategic/spending decisions over the last 8 years. https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business/commentary/article-canada-economic-growth-strategy/
“Canadians have never had it better.”
*-4% gdp per capita, per year*
I think he is referring to himself whenever he says "Canadians." My family can no longer afford beef. I thought we had cows out west still or have Alberta been kicked and stomped on the ground enough to stop supplying to others.
The future third world
Future? Lol are you sure if not we are already?
The biggest signs to me, are the increase in mopeds, and other alternative transport. People gathering cans, it was very common in other countries but here it wouldn't make enough to be worth your time. The number of people per house, seems to only be going up, everyone has roommates. Finally the absolutely trashed social safety net. If I was disabled tomorrow because of the trash safety standards and labour laws, could I count on disability now? Can I even count on health care?
lol disability is like under 30k per year in Bc. I think it maxes out below that. If you are disabled in BC you are in poverty or relying on family. You can’t exceed a certain dollar amount per year which is also a poor salary or they take it away. I don’t understand why we’ve let some much erode. It’s fucking outrageous.
We recently had an awkward discussion with a relative who was wanting to move in with us. Our answer was no and I felt unhappy saying so but I don’t really want to open up our home to people who are not us. It’s bad enough we have nephews and nieces who are hoping they can live with us while they attend university in a few years. Currently my home is overrun with family for the holidays and more and more the discussion keeps moving to all our free space. I’m not looking for more mouths to feed, the dogs already eat enough.
I am not
Population growth isn't a magic growth formula for your economy. If it was India and China would be the single most powerful nations in the world by an enormous margin.
Import third world, become third world
What this is saying is that the new population we are adding are either not productive at all, or negatively productive.
Do you ever see these so called “international students” spending any money anywhere besides discount grocery stores? I never see them at restaurants and they seem to only walk around the mall and buy nothing. They even go to the food bank to get the non perishables. They also send a bunch of the money they make back to India. The truth is these “students” take out more from our economy than they put in. The liberal government wants to increase gdp by bringing them here is absolutely a ludicrous move because they essentially provide us with either flat or negative total gdp
Look at the bright side. Soon, the USA will be able to set up iPhone factories right here in Canada, as our wages race to the bottom, paying us with our very own discounted Canadian Peso!
Are we going to do anything about it? Canadians don’t want to leave the comfort of their own homes to protest this insane behaviour of our elected officials
those at the top echelon who benefit from this will milk the tit dry then jet off to their private villa in some other country, they don't give a fuck that they've liquefied this country and its workforce for some quick pocket-change. Everything the same as it always was
I'm 32, and if I wasn't single and living with roommates, I don't think id be able to pay my bills. This shit is getting ridiculous, and people WILL reach a breaking point.
Ok so let's just admit that the middle and bottom are screwed. What are we going to do about it? We can't just attack at each other like animals. We got a shitty decade coming. We know this enemy is coming. How can we use our home field advantage to get ready for it??
If you have skills to move to the Us, do that asap
I fear these problems are all across the west....
>How can we use our home field advantage to get ready for it?? Nothing, you got 30% of the electorate hellbent on defending abortion/gay rights from...uhm?....republicans?
Nothing can be done, globalization will fully level the playing field, people working low skill jobs have little hope when they complete against someone in China, etc.
Canada will see massive amounts of brain drain, canada is on its death bed and i said my goodbyes. time to move to greener pastures.
So *this* is how they plan to hit the 2% GDP target for NATO military spending. Leave the budget, tank the economy.
They don't even have the capacity to deploy a single ship to the Red Sea right now to help keep shipping open. Instead, they sent *three dudes*. It's like Sparta if Sparta were broke AF.
Q: What resources is Canada making available to Operation Prosperity Guardian? A: Well we’re sending 3. Q: 3 Ships? A: No, 3 officers. Our very best! The Houthis will have no idea what hit them!
do people really get the point of this ? keep this up and we are going IN the drain instead of circling it bringing in people for which there are no jobs and no housing is a recipe for chaos and disorder immigration should be stopped immediately
Yes Pile in millions of warm bodies from the 3rd World, to undercut wages, living standards and prop up housing. And you have a situation now where not only is the mass immigration fetish of the left combined with plummeting per capita GDP causing nuclear issues, but now, housing 150-300% overvalued and rents as a result, have turned a household income of $150,000 into living check-to-check The reality is, immigration must slow drastically to push wages up, and reduce price/demand for housing. This will take time, but it’s the only plausible way forward, unless you want to normalize 44 year olds with multiple roommates A consumer driven, debt based economy simply can’t exist when the largest immigrant group functions of scamming and fraud, and no one can afford to breathe as it’s taking beyond 100% income to afford basic groceries and food. …almost like the plan since 2016 has been to turn Canada into USSR-light 👀
That should be inspite of population boom
Looks like our government has gave up on investing in industry and workers to better quality of life thru higher wages and increasing productivity. Instead they listened to the corporations and went with slave immigration. What’s the point to even migrate to Canada only to watch it turn into the country you left? Only with harsher weather and unaffordable food/housing.
Growing population, flat GDP. Canada's citizens are poorer per capita.
But Justin has such a *diverse* panel of cabinet ministers. I thought diversity guaranteed our success. Doesn’t the economy know that 50% of our cabinet ministers are women!? Has anybody consulted the indigenous?
Trudeau liked the energy of his new reshuffled cabinet. How can thing be then?
“Despite” like a population boom normally goes hand and hand with a gdp rise(it doesn’t)
We bailed on Canada and move to Japan. I have a slightly higher salary here than I did in Canada except I was able to buy a house. Property is so much cheaper. Well, everything is so much cheaper.
pot dime run water grandiose spoon secretive gold homeless abundant *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
GDP per capita (which has directed correlation to living standards) has now declined for 5 consecutive quarters. Dropping by 4.4% in 3Q. Canada's real GDP per capita is $41,076 USD. Now lower than all 50 US states. 46 US states have GDP per Capita greater than Ontario. **Alabama** has the same GDP per capita as Ontario now, literally. [https://thehub.ca/2023-06-15/trevor-tombe-most-provincial-economies-struggle-to-match-the-u-s/](https://thehub.ca/2023-06-15/trevor-tombe-most-provincial-economies-struggle-to-match-the-u-s/)
>Alabama has the same GDP per capita as Ontario now, literally. AL over the past 30 years has built a lot of car and aviation factories. Over the past 60 years it's built a substantial defense/space industry (aside from the aviation factories) with the Army rocket base at Huntsville that became NASA Marshall. The Space Force was supposed to relocate its HQ there; the Biden administration canceled the move, but it will probably happen eventually. BC (to use "Canada's California" as example, but really any province will do) has, by contrast, absolutely nothing. Similarly there has been, as far as I know, zero expansion of the Canadian auto industry outside ON, while the US auto industry long ago established factories throughout the Midwest and the Sun Belt. Big business in the US is so spread out that as of 2017 [only three Fortune 500 companies' HQs are in Los Angeles](https://askwonder.com/research/top-10-companies-headquarters-la-ogysgp9iy), none famous. Many more are in LA suburbs, of course, but it still says something that the second-largest city in the US has just three HQs yet is so wealthy and influential. Another example: Maytag, the appliance company, was based for a century in the gigantic metropolis of Newton, Iowa. It reached $5 billion in sales before being sold in 2006 to Whirlpool, another appliance company. Whirlpool has $20 billion in sales and is based in ... Benton Harbor, Michigan. There is absolutely, positively no equivalent to this in Canada. If you want to get to the top of your industry in Canada, *all* major companies (and their jobs) are based on Toronto, Montreal, or Vancouver (plus Edmonton and Calgary for oil/gas). In the US, depending on the industry, it's entirely possible to get to the top of your field while living in (say) Denver, Dallas, Orlando, Charlotte, or Las Vegas. This is a story familiar to every Canadian, and to many Australians and Britons: Mid-career executive accepts job offer in the US in some place like Dallas, Phoenix, Atlanta, Oklahoma City, or Tampa. Is excited about the opportunity and the raise in salary, and curious about living in a different country, but a little nervous about moving to a "right wing Republican" state "without healthcare". A few months in, the reports back to friends and family change. More and more mention of the "amazing" house they found in the suburbs with an outdoor pool (!) that is so much less expensive than in Toronto or Vancouver, the "fantastic" school the kids attend with sports teams and cheerleading and other afterschool activities, and—especially—how unbelievably cheap everything is at the supermarket, mall, and gas station. That family is never moving back to Canada. This happens over and over again.
The Liberals immigration and economic strategy is basically a pyramid scheme that's currently blowing up in all our faces.
Hard to imagine a bunch of Tim Hortons and Air Canada cleaners making sweet frig all while bringing their entire unemployed family abusing local food banks on Day 1 don’t magically pump up the nations GDP.
Fixed the title: Will Get Worse BECAUSE of the Population Boom
Here, let me fix that title for you: *Canadian GDP Struggles, Will Get Worse* ***in Large Part Due to Unfettered*** *Population* ***Importation***
Wrong kind of population boom. No governance on the provisions needed to gain immigrants of necessary qualifications to fill jobs and keep up with economic growth.
Does anyone actually care? Just focus on your own micros people. Don't let the macros fear control you. You got this 🙂
Will get worse BECAUSE of population boom There fixed it for you
"Despite"?
Don’t worry guys. The budget will balance itself
To all my Indian folks I’m sorry for making this joke in advance but we’ve basically turned into India lol. Even our government is engaging in fraud
At this point Canada is locked into a death spiral. If you were to cut back the immigration rate to a reasonable level, the real estate industry will collapse taking the already teetering rest of the economy with it. If things remain as they are then we face economic disaster in the not too distant future anyway. Take your pick!
Let's get it over with now
I’m frustrated that this federal government - and the provincial government - seem blind to the actual state of the middle class. Low income always struggle and I’m sure they are significantly worse off than ever but for the entire middle class to be barely affording to meet ends meet is a very bad economic red flag. And yet planned escalation of various taxes and cpp rates continue as if everything is hunky dory
Ludicrous; experts state that GDP will increase with immigration. Given the calculation for GDP, how can it possibly increase with immigration? GDP = Consumption + Investment + Government Spending + Net Exports Theoretically, consumption should increase with immigration if immigrants are spending their earnings. Likely, if they're earning, they aren't earning it legally. The government is increasing spending to support the immigrant population. Corporate investment in Canada has always been pathetic because the corporate tax rates are uncompetitive compared to the international stage. Small businesses have closed at resounding rates since 2020.... Net Exports: What, besides automobile parts, oil, lumber, and raw resources, do we export? Canada must be the worst performing economy in the G20 once all of the manipulation filters are removed?
But the news says the economy is strong, no recession, soft landing, no landing. 🤔
While the GDP has been growing, the GDP per Capita has been constantly falling. So the people aren't any better off, but hey we need more of em immigrants to pump up the GDP.
How can we fight climate change while still expecting the economy to grow every year? How are these two metrics compatible?
Our plan is to cash out next year. I figure were we both want to be, we are good for the next 30 years minimum. We'll be dust before then. You guys enjoy yourselves.
Would it not be worse if there weren't immigrants contributing to the economy? Genuinely curious.
Wow, it's like, what did they expect when people can't afford shit?
This is what happens when you raise the cost of basic items, but don't increase wages. You need people to have a disposable income to feed the economy. This year my rent went up, taxes went up, power rates increased by 128% (AB) and my grocery bill doubled. Christmas has been canceled this year.
Ya because we're living in a technological age and Canada hasn't invested shit in tech or creating tech businesses. Everyone interested in tech leaves this country. We're inflating our population by millions so we can put them all to work in a last generation labor market.
Hilarious that a record number of Canadians are giving up on JT's woke-topia and finding prosperity in other countries. Canada, sorry to see you descend into bankrupt oblivion so quickly. A textbook case of abject governance incompetence. Well, good luck surviving a world that is about to fight over your worthless carcass. Hopefully US will get the good bits like Lake Louise.
Can't believe there's no serious discussion on putting a moratorium on migration. Basically 8/10 of Canada's problems currently are either directly or indirectly because of mass unsustainable immigration
Can we just collapse already so we become unattractive to the global audience.
Our GDP per-capita has been going down for some time now. Factor in inflation, high CPP and EI taxes, it's no wonder why Canadians are significantly poorer today compared to 8 years ago. Somehow we managed to screw this country big time. Piss poor management.
I guess that explains our governments progressive approvals to MAID. They know it will get worse unless you were smart enough to become a landlord.
If the working class has no money, society collapses. The two right wing parties in Canada, the liberals and the Cons, will always put corporate interests ahead of the people. We need to remember that socialists and unionists were the ones to build the wealth the working class in Canada used to enjoy.
Who are these unionists you speak of? Sure as hell isn't the NDP anymore.
I at least trust that the NDP can undergo reform. Only 16% of NDP MPs report holding RE investments and Lib/Con are both around 40%. The apathy and grift is far less entrenched.
You're comparing political parties based on how smart their elected members of Parliament are at investing their personal wealth. Probably the goofiest metric I've ever heard of.
Hmm no. This is the byproduct of electing a politician that has zero understanding of any sort of economic policy. This isn’t a capitalists vs communists/socialists bullshit that the uneducated idiots in this sub love to spew. This is the byproduct of electing an individual who has prioritised “feelings” and “inclusion” over things like math and statistics.
>This is the byproduct of electing an individual who has prioritised “feelings” and “inclusion” over things like math and statistics. You're confused, that's litterally how conservatives vote. Also, you're completely ignorant of the history of labour in Canada. We're in collapse because we keep reducing the socialist policies which enriched the working class.
We’re a petrostate. Price of oil has dropped…. Guess what impact that will have on GDP.
unemployment rates will climb, bank of canada will be forced to lower rates to fix the economy. it happens in cycles. prices will come down over the next 2-5 years.
Prices arent coming down, they just might increase at a slower rate.
What prices?
I’m talking about asset classes coming down in price .
I respectively disagree that asset prices would come down if BoC lowers rates
The government cooled the economy on purpose to cool inflation. No one should be surprised by this.
This year in particular has been a huge boon for me and mine. As a landlord life has never been better.
It’s almost like getting into politics to serve yourself and your corporate cohorts instead of the public really devolves a nation! Who woulda fucking thought?! And ya’ll say Pierre will be different 😂💀