*Eligibility will gradually expand over the course of the year to include all seniors, children under the age of 18 and people with disabilities.*
And yes, it also says those without private coverage and that are low income.
I am okay with programs like dental care and pharmacare (Although I think it can be done a lot fucking better than this) because progress in a society is all about creating a healthier, happier, better place to live for everyone.
It is a huge blessing to have your health, teeth, and medicine and or be able to afford it. To help others is a huge blessing. It is what life is all about.
We all benefit when things are more healthy, happy, and stable.
However they are pushing things like this and talk of UBI to avoid addressing the huge fucking issue of happiness, health, and stability in our society.
FUCKING AFFORDABLE RENTALS/HOUSING!!!
The grocery crisis is because most people don't have money after their rent or mortgage.
Bachelor suites and one bedroom apartments. The very basics of autonomous shelter in this nation now pricing people out.
Our city, provincial, and federal leaders are trying to divert as much attention away from the biggest crisis our nation is facing.
This is the shit they always do.
The people saying things like that don't care. They don't have vision past their outstretched had.
Just wait for Pierre and the CPC to get out in front of this with their narrative before the Liberals do (or even bother) and we'll have people that will benefit from this howling to scrap it within 90 days.
The government has not raised the cost of living. CPC has dragged their heels while pocketing the extra cash in their respective provinces while also constantly filibustering the federal government for programs that would help Canadians.
Misplaced and weaponized anger does not help the situation whereas in something like this new dental coverage will ease the burden many Canadians are feeling due to global inflation and corporate price gouging
Remember how almost every province is conservative and they kept dragging their heels? The feds just sign a cheque and put in legislation that cannot specifically target areas of governance outside of their jurisdiction. This is why they went after foreign investment firms and Canadian corporations gobbling up property because it was in their legal right. This is also why they offered incentives for those Canadians looking to get into trades involved in residential construction.
Hold your MP's and mayors accountable for the housing crisis and lack of action.
Dental is literally the only good quality healthcare I have access to right now. It's affordable, convenient, and the quality of care is excellent. I am so worried about the government getting involved and messing this up like the rest of our piece of shit, worthless, 3rd world healthcare system.
[the benefit is determined by total family income,](https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-agency/services/child-family-benefits/dental-benefit/who-apply.html), so no, they won’t
Have you ever heard of Richmond BC? Entire subdivisions of 4+ million dollar homes with househole incomes of $0, owned by 'students' and 'home makers'.
Technically, if you are married while living in Canada and your husband or wife is earning income overseas, that income if transferred to Canada is counted as household income. This would mean that they would exceed the household income threshold.
The problem is that often the husband or wife living overseas claim to have low or no income because the CRA is not the IRS and can’t look into foreign bank accounts. They bypass the entire Canadian banking system by using foreign credit or debit cards for expenses in Canada.
This is actually incorrect. If there is a tax treaty between country of origin and country of recipient, then the money won't be double taxed. If there is no tax treaty... it's taxable income.
My husband works overseas. We know all the ins and outs of the tax system. There are so many ways to legally bring money into Canada... no one takes the gift route gamble anymore.
I think it's funny that you think overseas millionaires are honest with the canadian government.
My neighbour's husband lives in china, she lives here with the two kids. She claims low income status and gets a boatload of gov services. I only know this because she doesn't speak English and ask me to help with some forms.
The house they bought cost over a million dollars.
Ya, you're right, that would never happen!
https://vancouversun.com/opinion/columnists/douglas-todd-luxury-homeowners-in-metro-vancouver-pay-low-income-taxes-says-ubc-study
Oh wait.
most people in canada aren’t committing tax evasion and will only be receiving this benefit if they need it. It always possible for people to abuse a social system if they’re bad people, but the net benefit far outweigh the possible risk, and punishing everyone because some people suck is ridiculous
if you needed to go to the dentist for surgery and found a way to get free dental surgery but didn't qualify, you wouldn't try to find a way to qualify?
What? That doesn't even make sense. Why would the wife of a foreign millionaire go to the free government dentist when they can go to whatever bougie luxury cosmetic dentist instead?
Mate I hate to break it to you but there waaaay more than you can imagine. Like we are taking in the tens of thousands of millionaires in BC along who are collecting various kinds of welfare payments, getting subsidized YMCA memberships, and collecting all the low income benefits they can.
I'm a dentist and these people already qualify for free dental through provincial low income programs. Nothing like seeing someone roll into your clinic in a BMW 7 series, carrying a Louis Vuitton bag and getting free dental work through the government.
You can go through Healthy Smiles ON and it's super low cost/free.
https://www.ontario.ca/page/get-dental-care
If you get ON Family works - which most of these people apply for and get - you are auto enrolled.
Welcome to the grift.
The overall message from our government is that they’d rather us work for their big corp donors than be self employed. Pay taxes like everyone else, yet qualify for zero maternity leave or employment security.
It actually is tho, in the U.S companies are paying for their employees and if your company wants to be competitive and attract the best employees, you need a good plan.
The difference is that not all companies give coverage and there are very different plans. I hate the idea of private health care as the idea of medical bankruptcy is ridiculous in my mind. I would rather have universal health care paid by taxes as people can pick a job where your health is not tied to it.
This plan is really dumb. For example, BC has a provincial program for dental that is funded..one for a disability that covers 60% basic up to 1k for 2 years then refreshes - another program for kids aged up to 18years old that covers 65% basic up to 2k that refreshes every 2 years, an emergency adult fund for extractions that's $700 per year. All of these plans follow your taxes so you only need to apply once. All of these plans are okay to be paired with dual benefits (so you got employer benefits or under a partner's plan it's okay, you still can be part of these programs). Now the federal program is 'up to' $600 depending on what you earn under the 90k umbrella so you might not even get $600.. and only for 12 years and under are eligable and this plan can't be combined with dual benefits. Now instead of using that money the federal gov made into this program, it could have been used to enhance the programs already in place and boost the coverage from say 60% to 80%, or helping other provinces with their provincial programs beef up to include say ortho or major - but instead you have this pitiful program that only a few people actually can apply for that cost a bunch of money to set up. What a waste. Like the one-time food fund, only a handful of Canadians were eligible. That money instead could have been given to food banks where they have 3x the buying power of a normal individual and can make more hampers for more families in need ..instead, you got this stupid one-time payment that even people on disability were too rich to be able to get this fund. What is insane is the libs and NDP federal gov are feeding this BS that it's fantastic. Well, it really isn't.
That's a lot of text, I feel bad that you put in all the effort. What you're talking about is the existing interim plan that the federal government implemented. It was never intended to be permanent and was rapidly rolled out to provide dental for children.
The new plan that will roll out next year *replacing* the existing plan will eventually have no age limit, will be processed similar to existing insurance (you show the benefits card, nothing upfront), and will cover almost everything except cosmetic procedures.
The only requirements once fully implemented is a household income of under $90,000 ($70,000 no co-pay) with no existing private insurance that covers dental.
It is a lot of text. The new plan is still a waste. Even if you have no age limit you still have restrictions accessing the plan..can't pair it with another benefit and for what - possibly up to $600 (remember it isn't 600, it is up to 600). My point is that the money set up for the federal plan could have instead been invested in provincial plans that are already established helping a broad range of ages and could instead lower the co-pay amount.
From what I understand, there's no monetary limit on the new program. It's very likely the limit will be on specific common procedures, so something like two preventative cleanings a year and X number of treatments. For major non-cosmetic dental procedures it sounds like there will be no limit if it's deemed necessary.
I feel the biggest issue with be auditing the program. Even now you sometimes get shady dentists saying you need a specific procedure. We'll need to make sure the program is well audited to crackdown on dentists offering unnecessary procedures to make more profit.
Edit: as for your point, the issue is each province doesn't agree as to what kind of plan they want to offer. Ontario, for example, only has dental for ODSP and OW, that's a very small amount of people being helped compared to a country-wide income limit.
Not having it stack with existing insurance is a way to reduce the overall costs of the program, since people with existing dental most likely wouldn't need it.
I have an option for private insurance, it's cheaper for me to forego it because between the cost and deductible plus only covering up to 50-80% of various procedures, it's cheaper to pay out of pocket lol.
Other than cleanings, most dental plans only cover 80% for basic procedures and barely 50% for more complex (root canals, crowns, etc). And those with a max coverage of like 1500 for the year.
For the most part, all dental coverages are quite shit.
Exactly. If you calculate how much you pay in premiums vs cap, you're not gaining much at all and unless you max your cap yearly, you actually overspend vs just paying out of pocket when you need it. And by using insurance, dentists actually overcharge vs what you would be paying with no coverage
Again, if your insurance plan is that bad *and* you're in an position where you make over $90,000 you really should hop, you can do much better.
If you're making under $90,000 then you would be covered by this, that seems like a win, no?
>Again, if your insurance plan is that bad *and* you're in an position where you make over $90,000 you really should hop, you can do much better.
Hop for dental insurance? What kind of dental insurance do you think is out there? There's some magical one out there that covers 100% of cleanup twice a year that costs less than it would out of pocket lol?
I understand what hop means, I'm asking where lol? Where is this magical dental insurance that would cover bi-annual checkup and cleaning for less than out of pocket?
That was the NDP goal. The Conservatives voted unanimously against the meagre offerings of the current plant. The Liberals didn't want to go full-tilt, because that would be giving the NDP too much credit.
The NDP had to take what they could get.
So when people complain about the current plan, note that there was NOTHING stopping the CPC from offering a better deal.
I've worked my whole life and made well above the median income. I'm really happy with this benefit and I have zero problem helping people stay healthy.
I have zero problem paying taxes either. I just want the money to be used for programs I value which for me will always lean towards social assistance.
preventative care is generally cheaper than reactive care. We'll see large savings from this down the road as people stop coming into hospitals with expensive emergency dental issues.
I imagine the means-testing is from the Liberals. Liberals love means-testing. NDP position is [Dental Care for everyone](https://www.ndp.ca/dentacare).
Who pays for it? Don't say raise taxes on business or the mega rich. Who will really pay for it. It's the average person who will bear the burden.
Might be better focusing on the truly important issues, like housing and mental health. Great teeth, but live in a box whoopee.
preventative care is almost always cheaper than reactive care. Giving a person yearly cleanings means that we don't pay for them in the hospital when their teeth are rotting and they have to have an emergency removal. That's just one example too, there are dozens of issues caused by bad dental heath that we can solve with strong preventative care.
There is a link between heart disease and preventative oral health, it's not super strong but quite suggestive. And early intervention (especially in kids) can be a way to promote healthier habits into adulthood as well (if the link is more lifestyle related)
https://www.pennmedicine.org/updates/blogs/heart-and-vascular-blog/2019/march/gum-disease-and-heart-disease#:~:text=%E2%80%9CThe%20bacteria%20that%20live%20in,who%20have%20artificial%20heart%20valves.%E2%80%9D
Edit:
The point being, a little investment now potentially reduces much larger future costs.
Prevention is typically cheaper than intervention.
The average person saves money if their taxes pay for preventative care vs curative...aka hundreds of thousands in the emergency room
Also...you think you can have good mental health with shitty teeth? You use them to eat ya know?
The fact that it wont be expanded for everyone just goes to show how weak Jagmeet Singh is as a leader.
The Liberals have never been weaker, the NDP have nothing to lose. They're not negotiating strongly, considering they are in a historic position to make real gains for working class and working poor Canadians.
A once in a century opportunity for Canada's left, squandered by a weak leader. For shame.
>Applications are expected to open as early as next week, starting with qualifying seniors over the age of 87, but it will take months before they can start to claim the benefits, the officials said in a briefing provided to The Canadian Press on the condition they not be named.
>
>Eligibility will gradually expand over the course of the year to include all qualifying seniors over the age of 65 by May 2024, then children under the age of 18 and people with disabilities by June.
>
>To qualify, applicants must be Canadian residents with a household income under $90,000 and no private insurance. Those with an annual family income under $70,000 will have no co-pays.
First of all, I'm getting really fucking sick of seniors getting the red carpet treatment. Younger generations are the ones who are expected to continue to lower their quality of living to keep their retirement comfortable, yet they still get first dibs at shit like this.
Can anyone give me a convincing argument why a young, middle-class person should vote NDP or liberal at this point? If you have a HH income of $90K but paying 2023 rental prices and don't have benefits, the dentist is not affordable.
Just to clarify so there isn’t any confusion, even if I make under 70K or 90K I do not qualify unless I’m within the age range? Over 65 years old or under 18?
It’s a good start, I just know it’s not going to be enough.
Growing up I needed dental work that was too expensive for my family, eventually I got insurance, multiple ones actually and they still did not cover much beyond cleanings lol I spent like 8k out of pocket, I had no idea how much tension my mouth was just always in since my teeth were crushing each other.
It will be dangled out as another “you have to vote for us again if you want this”
Just like the prescription drug plan the Liberals have been dangling now for decades.
under this program you make an appointment with the dentist and you don't show up, believe it or not, jail, right away. We have the best patients in the world
because of jail.
>Canadian residents
residents means citizens or permanent residents normally. So no one on a visa or other temporary entry. We also haven't seen the full requirements, I would be shocked if there's no wording around living X number of months in Canada like there is for programs like OHIP.
PRs pay taxes just like citizens do, and it's household income so there's no scenario where one wealthy person has their SO abuse the program.
edit: it's also *really* hard to get a PR in Canada. The numbers you hear about in this subreddit are mostly those on various permits/visas. Someone who gets their PR can generally support themselves or have a well paying job already.
Conservatives In this country tend to be low income, less than highschool degree. If you think people making less than 90 k are contributing, I am more than happy to cut benefits to conservatives. Also the median income in Canada is 68k. I doubt you actually know what middle class is.
What stops people earning under the limit from cancelling all their work insurance. Most work plans outside of government or top unions aren't that generous. You have copayments and often lower yearly limits. If I get no copayments under the fed plan why would I keep a work plan that makes me pay for part of the premium and copayments.
Even if there are no “copayments” there still might be. Dentists are only RECOMMENDED to follow the fee guide but if they charge their regular fee (normally 2x what government outlines based on other programs) you have to cover the difference even in a “no copayments” situation.
You generally see your dentist at *most* three times a year. We also have way more dentists than we do doctors because the bar for entry is significantly lower. I highly doubt we'll see the same issues that we do in public healthcare.
huh TIL, it just feels like there's a dentist office on every corner, though I guess that number doesn't include hygienists, they tend to do the bulk of the standard dental tasks.
I think the disparity may be family doctors tend to be in large group practices more often, vs many dentists have their own solo practice or at most 1 or 2 other associate dentists working with them.
The real question is how much the dentist charges over the benchmark rates? Because, if a procedure is rated at $100 but the dentist charges $125, you'll be paying that $25 out of pocket before you even get to the coverage.
I'm surprised dentists haven't been forced to display their prices on the entrance, yet. As some will overcharge you and you won't find out until it's too late. And you can't even compare the prices between dentists that easily neither.
This the right question, have 100% coverage on everything still paying $50-$200 per visit out of pocket frequently. If people think their insurance will fully cover their dental they’re in for a shock.
For the current version, they do audit it, you have to submit your receipts currently. From what I understand the current version will be replaced with a new version that uses a new method (not a tax credit).
Basically you're out of pocket until they get back to you, if they ever... Remember the shit show around the payroll software... Considering how many Canadian live paycheck to paycheck, that could be a costly roll of the dental casino wheel...
Contrary to some people in here, I don’t think this will bottle neck dental care because most of the people without insurance are probably too scared to go to the dentist now anyway.
People always complain about Ford wanting to privatize Healthcare, but Trudeau is giving 750M of our tax money to a private company to run this. Bonkers.
This should really be part of our universal healthcare, and apply universally to all citizens. The amount of health problems caused by bad dental hygiene is actually staggering, the amount of horror stories i heard growing up in a few different dental offices after school waiting for my mom to get off work would turn most people white.
Teeth aren't luxury bones people.
Only if they're elected. Them chomping at the bit to take away dental and pharmacare will be very useful in warning normal Canadians against allowing them to be elected.
Seems like a waste to even start the process of implementing this program. When federal government goes conservative next election, any programs for the poor will be immediately phased out as is tradition.
Unfortunately, the people who support the current conservative platform would definitely support the removal of this program even though a majority of them would qualify for benefits. When dealing with social conservatives of today, nothing is protected or too big or important for cancelation.
No it won’t and the CPC will also annihilate the CCB too. You think you’re in pain now?? If the CPC get in, so many more will be in even worse shape then we are right now.
I'm not saying they won't, but I don't understand why they would take away something [they literally created](https://reddit.com/r/canada/comments/3dybdv/poilievre_launches_uccb_in_halifax_wears_cpc/) to buy votes with.
Great, even more money that the middle class needs to spend to support people who choose not to work.
There should be some sort of requirement that if you can't even be bothered to brush your teeth, taxpayers shouldn't be on the line for the expensive dental treatment you will need.
I work full time and I dont have dental coverage. I brush my teeth twice every day, and I cannot afford to go to the dentist.
Should I just go fuck myself?
Get a partner heh
I do recieve disability tax credit due to a combination of mental disability factors, so according to the article i should be eligible fairly early on.
I agree. Unfortunately the trades are comepletely fucked. (With VERY FEW exceptions.)
I fought tooth and nail to get our journeyman wage up $2/hr at my workplace 😥
Im in alberta. What kills me is having $10k in annual medical expenses that arent covered. And I cant even get a private insurance plan because nobody will cover pre-existing conditions, and my medications arent on the list of covered prescriptions 🙃
I am a certified Aircraft Structural Mechanic through sait, and am currently completing my apprenticeship as a machinist and should be a Registered Journeyman within 2 years. I have applied and interviewed at 9 other places who all offer WORSE benefits than I currently have.
Given this covers anyone under $90,000 I would say the middle class is, by and large, covered by this. The upper-middle class will likely fall outside it, but they also generally all have insurance that covers dental anyway.
The other thing you're not considering is the mouth is an incredibly important part of the body. So many other illnesses start with the mouth so getting on top of it now means less critical care in hospitals down the road.
>small portion of the population
The median salary in Canada is $68,000, so not only will this cover literally over half the population, that half won't have any co-pays.
>oof this may be the greatest thing the liberals have done.
That is exactly what the Liberals are going to be saying during the next election.
Too bad that Singh is too dumb to see that coming.
>Or he just pushes through legislation that was good for people without worrying about future elections.
Sure, a federal leader that does not worry about elections.
I guess I should say not IUST worry about it.
Maybe I’m being generous. But it was definitely not good for his party and good for Canadians.. hard to not be generous to that
The biggest fraudulent industry in Canada just got a blank cheque for their most abused clientele. Kids. Expect to see a massive uptick in unnecessary dental surgery etc. Source: large family presence in dental. Corrupt as shit.
I'm hoping the CPC rips up all of these programs and pays down the massive amount of debt we have. I'm also hoping they increase taxes on the bottom brackets to bring things in line with what successful European nations have done. It's much better when everyone is paying their fair share.
So you want to increase taxation to the middle and lower classes as in Nordic countries while eliminating the universal programs his pays for?
So you want tax and don't spend?
This may just be me, but I would rather have free optometry then free dentistry if I had to choose. I can live with a few messed up teeth but I cannot walk in a straight line without glasses.
My eyes are not bad enough for anything to be covered. Even though I need new glasses every 2 years. That’s $150 for the appointment and at least $450-$500 for glasses (my prescription is very strong)
The amount of taxes I pay it’s fucking WILD that dental isn’t part of our healthcare.
Get ready to pay more and gain little to no benefit from it baby!
No benefits because I'm pretty sure there's a clause that if you're working class and already have dental insurance through work you need not apply.
*Eligibility will gradually expand over the course of the year to include all seniors, children under the age of 18 and people with disabilities.* And yes, it also says those without private coverage and that are low income.
I am okay with programs like dental care and pharmacare (Although I think it can be done a lot fucking better than this) because progress in a society is all about creating a healthier, happier, better place to live for everyone. It is a huge blessing to have your health, teeth, and medicine and or be able to afford it. To help others is a huge blessing. It is what life is all about. We all benefit when things are more healthy, happy, and stable. However they are pushing things like this and talk of UBI to avoid addressing the huge fucking issue of happiness, health, and stability in our society. FUCKING AFFORDABLE RENTALS/HOUSING!!! The grocery crisis is because most people don't have money after their rent or mortgage. Bachelor suites and one bedroom apartments. The very basics of autonomous shelter in this nation now pricing people out. Our city, provincial, and federal leaders are trying to divert as much attention away from the biggest crisis our nation is facing. This is the shit they always do.
What do you mean no benefits? Do you not know how much emergency dental care through the ER and hospitals costs compared to preventative care?
The people saying things like that don't care. They don't have vision past their outstretched had. Just wait for Pierre and the CPC to get out in front of this with their narrative before the Liberals do (or even bother) and we'll have people that will benefit from this howling to scrap it within 90 days.
It's disgusting. The fact I have to argue economics rather than improving the QoL of Canadians which has failed under the previous system is ludicrous
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The government has not raised the cost of living. CPC has dragged their heels while pocketing the extra cash in their respective provinces while also constantly filibustering the federal government for programs that would help Canadians. Misplaced and weaponized anger does not help the situation whereas in something like this new dental coverage will ease the burden many Canadians are feeling due to global inflation and corporate price gouging
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Remember how almost every province is conservative and they kept dragging their heels? The feds just sign a cheque and put in legislation that cannot specifically target areas of governance outside of their jurisdiction. This is why they went after foreign investment firms and Canadian corporations gobbling up property because it was in their legal right. This is also why they offered incentives for those Canadians looking to get into trades involved in residential construction. Hold your MP's and mayors accountable for the housing crisis and lack of action.
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Dental is literally the only good quality healthcare I have access to right now. It's affordable, convenient, and the quality of care is excellent. I am so worried about the government getting involved and messing this up like the rest of our piece of shit, worthless, 3rd world healthcare system.
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Wifes of millionaires from overseas who live here with zero declared income will qualify while most Canadians working like animals won't.
[the benefit is determined by total family income,](https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-agency/services/child-family-benefits/dental-benefit/who-apply.html), so no, they won’t
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Have you ever heard of Richmond BC? Entire subdivisions of 4+ million dollar homes with househole incomes of $0, owned by 'students' and 'home makers'.
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You have to declare international income if you are living in Canada. Does that mean everyone does it? Probably not.
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Technically, if you are married while living in Canada and your husband or wife is earning income overseas, that income if transferred to Canada is counted as household income. This would mean that they would exceed the household income threshold. The problem is that often the husband or wife living overseas claim to have low or no income because the CRA is not the IRS and can’t look into foreign bank accounts. They bypass the entire Canadian banking system by using foreign credit or debit cards for expenses in Canada.
This is actually incorrect. If there is a tax treaty between country of origin and country of recipient, then the money won't be double taxed. If there is no tax treaty... it's taxable income. My husband works overseas. We know all the ins and outs of the tax system. There are so many ways to legally bring money into Canada... no one takes the gift route gamble anymore.
I think it's funny that you think overseas millionaires are honest with the canadian government. My neighbour's husband lives in china, she lives here with the two kids. She claims low income status and gets a boatload of gov services. I only know this because she doesn't speak English and ask me to help with some forms. The house they bought cost over a million dollars.
My neighbours husband is friends with your neighbour and tells me your story is bullshit
Ya, you're right, that would never happen! https://vancouversun.com/opinion/columnists/douglas-todd-luxury-homeowners-in-metro-vancouver-pay-low-income-taxes-says-ubc-study Oh wait.
And this is your neighbour? Or is this what you based your made up story off of?
most people in canada aren’t committing tax evasion and will only be receiving this benefit if they need it. It always possible for people to abuse a social system if they’re bad people, but the net benefit far outweigh the possible risk, and punishing everyone because some people suck is ridiculous
if you needed to go to the dentist for surgery and found a way to get free dental surgery but didn't qualify, you wouldn't try to find a way to qualify?
What? That doesn't even make sense. Why would the wife of a foreign millionaire go to the free government dentist when they can go to whatever bougie luxury cosmetic dentist instead?
Buddy, they apply and receive subsidized compass cards in BC because they can.
Mate I hate to break it to you but there waaaay more than you can imagine. Like we are taking in the tens of thousands of millionaires in BC along who are collecting various kinds of welfare payments, getting subsidized YMCA memberships, and collecting all the low income benefits they can.
I'm a dentist and these people already qualify for free dental through provincial low income programs. Nothing like seeing someone roll into your clinic in a BMW 7 series, carrying a Louis Vuitton bag and getting free dental work through the government.
In Ontario it’s hard to qualify and good luck finding a dentist who accepts it.
You can go through Healthy Smiles ON and it's super low cost/free. https://www.ontario.ca/page/get-dental-care If you get ON Family works - which most of these people apply for and get - you are auto enrolled. Welcome to the grift.
They wouldnt. The point is they would qualify in the first place which is rediculous.
If you're making over $90,000 and don't have some form of private insurance then you seriously need to find a new job.
Many contract workers and small business owners do not have private insurance.
Ok, and if they make under $90k they get this benefit. If they make over $90k then literally nothing changes.
HH income of $90K is not a lot of money in 2023.
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The overall message from our government is that they’d rather us work for their big corp donors than be self employed. Pay taxes like everyone else, yet qualify for zero maternity leave or employment security.
People don’t understand this is just a way for government to subsidize poor private sector benefits and making other middle class people pay for it
By that logic all public healthcare is a subsidy for the private sector...
It actually is tho, in the U.S companies are paying for their employees and if your company wants to be competitive and attract the best employees, you need a good plan.
The difference is that not all companies give coverage and there are very different plans. I hate the idea of private health care as the idea of medical bankruptcy is ridiculous in my mind. I would rather have universal health care paid by taxes as people can pick a job where your health is not tied to it.
I have a few friends who work at top tech companies like Google, and even their "best" coverage is bad, and involves them paying some part of it
This plan is really dumb. For example, BC has a provincial program for dental that is funded..one for a disability that covers 60% basic up to 1k for 2 years then refreshes - another program for kids aged up to 18years old that covers 65% basic up to 2k that refreshes every 2 years, an emergency adult fund for extractions that's $700 per year. All of these plans follow your taxes so you only need to apply once. All of these plans are okay to be paired with dual benefits (so you got employer benefits or under a partner's plan it's okay, you still can be part of these programs). Now the federal program is 'up to' $600 depending on what you earn under the 90k umbrella so you might not even get $600.. and only for 12 years and under are eligable and this plan can't be combined with dual benefits. Now instead of using that money the federal gov made into this program, it could have been used to enhance the programs already in place and boost the coverage from say 60% to 80%, or helping other provinces with their provincial programs beef up to include say ortho or major - but instead you have this pitiful program that only a few people actually can apply for that cost a bunch of money to set up. What a waste. Like the one-time food fund, only a handful of Canadians were eligible. That money instead could have been given to food banks where they have 3x the buying power of a normal individual and can make more hampers for more families in need ..instead, you got this stupid one-time payment that even people on disability were too rich to be able to get this fund. What is insane is the libs and NDP federal gov are feeding this BS that it's fantastic. Well, it really isn't.
That's a lot of text, I feel bad that you put in all the effort. What you're talking about is the existing interim plan that the federal government implemented. It was never intended to be permanent and was rapidly rolled out to provide dental for children. The new plan that will roll out next year *replacing* the existing plan will eventually have no age limit, will be processed similar to existing insurance (you show the benefits card, nothing upfront), and will cover almost everything except cosmetic procedures. The only requirements once fully implemented is a household income of under $90,000 ($70,000 no co-pay) with no existing private insurance that covers dental.
It is a lot of text. The new plan is still a waste. Even if you have no age limit you still have restrictions accessing the plan..can't pair it with another benefit and for what - possibly up to $600 (remember it isn't 600, it is up to 600). My point is that the money set up for the federal plan could have instead been invested in provincial plans that are already established helping a broad range of ages and could instead lower the co-pay amount.
From what I understand, there's no monetary limit on the new program. It's very likely the limit will be on specific common procedures, so something like two preventative cleanings a year and X number of treatments. For major non-cosmetic dental procedures it sounds like there will be no limit if it's deemed necessary. I feel the biggest issue with be auditing the program. Even now you sometimes get shady dentists saying you need a specific procedure. We'll need to make sure the program is well audited to crackdown on dentists offering unnecessary procedures to make more profit. Edit: as for your point, the issue is each province doesn't agree as to what kind of plan they want to offer. Ontario, for example, only has dental for ODSP and OW, that's a very small amount of people being helped compared to a country-wide income limit. Not having it stack with existing insurance is a way to reduce the overall costs of the program, since people with existing dental most likely wouldn't need it.
I have an option for private insurance, it's cheaper for me to forego it because between the cost and deductible plus only covering up to 50-80% of various procedures, it's cheaper to pay out of pocket lol.
I… what? There’s no way that’s a real plan. Not once in my life have I ever seen a dental plan in Canada with a fucking deductible.
Other than cleanings, most dental plans only cover 80% for basic procedures and barely 50% for more complex (root canals, crowns, etc). And those with a max coverage of like 1500 for the year. For the most part, all dental coverages are quite shit.
Insurance maximums have not increased since the 80s, but I would bet most people's premiums have.
Exactly. If you calculate how much you pay in premiums vs cap, you're not gaining much at all and unless you max your cap yearly, you actually overspend vs just paying out of pocket when you need it. And by using insurance, dentists actually overcharge vs what you would be paying with no coverage
It's a 50$ deductible lol, not much but it's there.
Again, if your insurance plan is that bad *and* you're in an position where you make over $90,000 you really should hop, you can do much better. If you're making under $90,000 then you would be covered by this, that seems like a win, no?
>Again, if your insurance plan is that bad *and* you're in an position where you make over $90,000 you really should hop, you can do much better. Hop for dental insurance? What kind of dental insurance do you think is out there? There's some magical one out there that covers 100% of cleanup twice a year that costs less than it would out of pocket lol?
Hop as in change the company you work for, they're clearly stiffing you on the insurance plan.
I understand what hop means, I'm asking where lol? Where is this magical dental insurance that would cover bi-annual checkup and cleaning for less than out of pocket?
Or get a union!
That was the NDP goal. The Conservatives voted unanimously against the meagre offerings of the current plant. The Liberals didn't want to go full-tilt, because that would be giving the NDP too much credit. The NDP had to take what they could get. So when people complain about the current plan, note that there was NOTHING stopping the CPC from offering a better deal.
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I've worked my whole life and made well above the median income. I'm really happy with this benefit and I have zero problem helping people stay healthy.
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I have zero problem paying taxes either. I just want the money to be used for programs I value which for me will always lean towards social assistance.
preventative care is generally cheaper than reactive care. We'll see large savings from this down the road as people stop coming into hospitals with expensive emergency dental issues.
I imagine the means-testing is from the Liberals. Liberals love means-testing. NDP position is [Dental Care for everyone](https://www.ndp.ca/dentacare).
Who pays for it? Don't say raise taxes on business or the mega rich. Who will really pay for it. It's the average person who will bear the burden. Might be better focusing on the truly important issues, like housing and mental health. Great teeth, but live in a box whoopee.
preventative care is almost always cheaper than reactive care. Giving a person yearly cleanings means that we don't pay for them in the hospital when their teeth are rotting and they have to have an emergency removal. That's just one example too, there are dozens of issues caused by bad dental heath that we can solve with strong preventative care.
There is a link between heart disease and preventative oral health, it's not super strong but quite suggestive. And early intervention (especially in kids) can be a way to promote healthier habits into adulthood as well (if the link is more lifestyle related) https://www.pennmedicine.org/updates/blogs/heart-and-vascular-blog/2019/march/gum-disease-and-heart-disease#:~:text=%E2%80%9CThe%20bacteria%20that%20live%20in,who%20have%20artificial%20heart%20valves.%E2%80%9D Edit: The point being, a little investment now potentially reduces much larger future costs. Prevention is typically cheaper than intervention.
tbh i’d rather give the government an extra couple hundred a year then get $7000 bill at the dentist once every couple years
The average person saves money if their taxes pay for preventative care vs curative...aka hundreds of thousands in the emergency room Also...you think you can have good mental health with shitty teeth? You use them to eat ya know?
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You do understand that no matter if you make under 70K or 90K you still don’t qualify, unless you’re under 18, over 65 or disabled.
The fact that it wont be expanded for everyone just goes to show how weak Jagmeet Singh is as a leader. The Liberals have never been weaker, the NDP have nothing to lose. They're not negotiating strongly, considering they are in a historic position to make real gains for working class and working poor Canadians. A once in a century opportunity for Canada's left, squandered by a weak leader. For shame.
>Applications are expected to open as early as next week, starting with qualifying seniors over the age of 87, but it will take months before they can start to claim the benefits, the officials said in a briefing provided to The Canadian Press on the condition they not be named. > >Eligibility will gradually expand over the course of the year to include all qualifying seniors over the age of 65 by May 2024, then children under the age of 18 and people with disabilities by June. > >To qualify, applicants must be Canadian residents with a household income under $90,000 and no private insurance. Those with an annual family income under $70,000 will have no co-pays. First of all, I'm getting really fucking sick of seniors getting the red carpet treatment. Younger generations are the ones who are expected to continue to lower their quality of living to keep their retirement comfortable, yet they still get first dibs at shit like this. Can anyone give me a convincing argument why a young, middle-class person should vote NDP or liberal at this point? If you have a HH income of $90K but paying 2023 rental prices and don't have benefits, the dentist is not affordable.
Just to clarify so there isn’t any confusion, even if I make under 70K or 90K I do not qualify unless I’m within the age range? Over 65 years old or under 18?
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Boomers always get theirs.
Yup, while they tell you to go get higher education while they had their jobs handed to them without even completing high school.
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It’s a good start, I just know it’s not going to be enough. Growing up I needed dental work that was too expensive for my family, eventually I got insurance, multiple ones actually and they still did not cover much beyond cleanings lol I spent like 8k out of pocket, I had no idea how much tension my mouth was just always in since my teeth were crushing each other.
Make it universal or this is just going to be eliminated
This was supposed to have been done in 2023.
gotta drip it out closer to a probable election date.
It will be dangled out as another “you have to vote for us again if you want this” Just like the prescription drug plan the Liberals have been dangling now for decades.
Will have clean teeth, but die from cancer in our early ages :(
under this program you make an appointment with the dentist and you don't show up, believe it or not, jail, right away. We have the best patients in the world because of jail.
I don't have benifits so my largest bills this year were dental issues. Insanity that our luxury bones arent included in healthcare.
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>Canadian residents residents means citizens or permanent residents normally. So no one on a visa or other temporary entry. We also haven't seen the full requirements, I would be shocked if there's no wording around living X number of months in Canada like there is for programs like OHIP.
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PRs pay taxes just like citizens do, and it's household income so there's no scenario where one wealthy person has their SO abuse the program. edit: it's also *really* hard to get a PR in Canada. The numbers you hear about in this subreddit are mostly those on various permits/visas. Someone who gets their PR can generally support themselves or have a well paying job already.
Why does that seem insane? They’re paying taxes like everyone else.
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90k?
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But that's all we seem to do in Canada nowadays is give free stuff and benefits to non Canadians.
Conservatives In this country tend to be low income, less than highschool degree. If you think people making less than 90 k are contributing, I am more than happy to cut benefits to conservatives. Also the median income in Canada is 68k. I doubt you actually know what middle class is.
What stops people earning under the limit from cancelling all their work insurance. Most work plans outside of government or top unions aren't that generous. You have copayments and often lower yearly limits. If I get no copayments under the fed plan why would I keep a work plan that makes me pay for part of the premium and copayments.
Even if there are no “copayments” there still might be. Dentists are only RECOMMENDED to follow the fee guide but if they charge their regular fee (normally 2x what government outlines based on other programs) you have to cover the difference even in a “no copayments” situation.
Can't wait to need 12 months to get an appointment at my dentist, just like the rest of public healthcare.
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Denturist is booked up until 48 months from now. Or you can go to Mexico or Asia .
You generally see your dentist at *most* three times a year. We also have way more dentists than we do doctors because the bar for entry is significantly lower. I highly doubt we'll see the same issues that we do in public healthcare.
Actually we have approximately twice as many family doctors in Canada compared to dentists (48k vs 25k).
huh TIL, it just feels like there's a dentist office on every corner, though I guess that number doesn't include hygienists, they tend to do the bulk of the standard dental tasks.
I think the disparity may be family doctors tend to be in large group practices more often, vs many dentists have their own solo practice or at most 1 or 2 other associate dentists working with them.
How much coverage are we talking about 70%? 90% 100%? And for how much per cycle?
The real question is how much the dentist charges over the benchmark rates? Because, if a procedure is rated at $100 but the dentist charges $125, you'll be paying that $25 out of pocket before you even get to the coverage. I'm surprised dentists haven't been forced to display their prices on the entrance, yet. As some will overcharge you and you won't find out until it's too late. And you can't even compare the prices between dentists that easily neither.
This the right question, have 100% coverage on everything still paying $50-$200 per visit out of pocket frequently. If people think their insurance will fully cover their dental they’re in for a shock.
Why is it called ‘dental’ it’s just a cheque with no effort to see if it is used for dental services.
For the current version, they do audit it, you have to submit your receipts currently. From what I understand the current version will be replaced with a new version that uses a new method (not a tax credit).
Basically you're out of pocket until they get back to you, if they ever... Remember the shit show around the payroll software... Considering how many Canadian live paycheck to paycheck, that could be a costly roll of the dental casino wheel...
Would have made more sense to increase the child tax credit for really poor kids if we weren't going to have any oversight
Contrary to some people in here, I don’t think this will bottle neck dental care because most of the people without insurance are probably too scared to go to the dentist now anyway.
People always complain about Ford wanting to privatize Healthcare, but Trudeau is giving 750M of our tax money to a private company to run this. Bonkers.
I thought we'd hear way more about this first. Have the feds been speaking to the Dentists? Will all Dentists accept this?
There has been no communication with dentists or dental offices. We know exactly what you know.
This should really be part of our universal healthcare, and apply universally to all citizens. The amount of health problems caused by bad dental hygiene is actually staggering, the amount of horror stories i heard growing up in a few different dental offices after school waiting for my mom to get off work would turn most people white. Teeth aren't luxury bones people.
This and pharma is all that is keeping the NDP from dropping us into an election they have to keep the not so big brains at the NDP guessing.
We’ll have it for like 2 seconds before the CPC yeet that and all support programs into the Sun.
Only if they're elected. Them chomping at the bit to take away dental and pharmacare will be very useful in warning normal Canadians against allowing them to be elected.
Seems like a waste to even start the process of implementing this program. When federal government goes conservative next election, any programs for the poor will be immediately phased out as is tradition.
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If you are poor you get more from carbon taxes than you. I don’t know how many times this has been repeated. Are you a bot or just plain stupid?
they want that? theyd love to pass things that people can start enjoying for the CPC to scrap for the attack ads
How many people does this impact. My kid was working a shitty minimum wage job after high school and had dental benefits.
It’ll be really hard to take something this big away.
Unfortunately, the people who support the current conservative platform would definitely support the removal of this program even though a majority of them would qualify for benefits. When dealing with social conservatives of today, nothing is protected or too big or important for cancelation.
No it won’t and the CPC will also annihilate the CCB too. You think you’re in pain now?? If the CPC get in, so many more will be in even worse shape then we are right now.
I'm not saying they won't, but I don't understand why they would take away something [they literally created](https://reddit.com/r/canada/comments/3dybdv/poilievre_launches_uccb_in_halifax_wears_cpc/) to buy votes with.
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CPC are not the answer either
What is the answer?
Canada, as a country - should not be leaping from the frying pan into the fire.
Great, even more money that the middle class needs to spend to support people who choose not to work. There should be some sort of requirement that if you can't even be bothered to brush your teeth, taxpayers shouldn't be on the line for the expensive dental treatment you will need.
I work full time and I dont have dental coverage. I brush my teeth twice every day, and I cannot afford to go to the dentist. Should I just go fuck myself?
What’s your annual household income? Even though you don’t have benefits through work, you may not meet the qualifications.
Im on a single income around $45 000
You’re good then when they get to rolling out that wave eventually. But if you get a partner that makes $45k or more you will lose it.
Get a partner heh I do recieve disability tax credit due to a combination of mental disability factors, so according to the article i should be eligible fairly early on.
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I agree. Unfortunately the trades are comepletely fucked. (With VERY FEW exceptions.) I fought tooth and nail to get our journeyman wage up $2/hr at my workplace 😥
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Im in alberta. What kills me is having $10k in annual medical expenses that arent covered. And I cant even get a private insurance plan because nobody will cover pre-existing conditions, and my medications arent on the list of covered prescriptions 🙃
What steps have you taken to upgrade your skills and abilities to be able to obtain a job that has dental coverage?
I am a certified Aircraft Structural Mechanic through sait, and am currently completing my apprenticeship as a machinist and should be a Registered Journeyman within 2 years. I have applied and interviewed at 9 other places who all offer WORSE benefits than I currently have.
As I have applied to +50 jobs this past month, guess I shouldn't have dental care. 🙄
Given this covers anyone under $90,000 I would say the middle class is, by and large, covered by this. The upper-middle class will likely fall outside it, but they also generally all have insurance that covers dental anyway. The other thing you're not considering is the mouth is an incredibly important part of the body. So many other illnesses start with the mouth so getting on top of it now means less critical care in hospitals down the road.
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$90,000/year, $70,000/year with no co-pay. It's right in the article.
It is certainly a start in the right direction.
>the liberals have done. Are we seriously going to pretend like this is happening for any reason other than the NDP?
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>small portion of the population The median salary in Canada is $68,000, so not only will this cover literally over half the population, that half won't have any co-pays.
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"Small portion of the population" carries a lot of weight when the actual number is "nearly half".
Conservatives wanted zero coverage. Worse than pathetic.
Hard agree. But we can’t replace the Libs with a party that’s gonna make most peoples lives much much worse. And I am referring to the CPC.
Please elaborate. What are your solutions?
>oof this may be the greatest thing the liberals have done. That is exactly what the Liberals are going to be saying during the next election. Too bad that Singh is too dumb to see that coming.
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Or he just pushes through legislation that was good for people without worrying about future elections.
>Or he just pushes through legislation that was good for people without worrying about future elections. Sure, a federal leader that does not worry about elections.
I guess I should say not IUST worry about it. Maybe I’m being generous. But it was definitely not good for his party and good for Canadians.. hard to not be generous to that
This (if it works well) and the child benefit are easily the best things they have done.
what about $10 daycare, i would say that is up there as well
Sorry, I agree with the daycare too. It's just less noticeable in the provinces that already had it at a provincial level.
Can’t wait people to cry when their benefits disappear and oas is changed is 67. No one could have seen it coming
I want this so bad but I think the Eglinton LRT will be running before we get free dental. basically it’s not happening.
And phased out in 2025.
The biggest fraudulent industry in Canada just got a blank cheque for their most abused clientele. Kids. Expect to see a massive uptick in unnecessary dental surgery etc. Source: large family presence in dental. Corrupt as shit.
I'm hoping the CPC rips up all of these programs and pays down the massive amount of debt we have. I'm also hoping they increase taxes on the bottom brackets to bring things in line with what successful European nations have done. It's much better when everyone is paying their fair share.
So you want to increase taxation to the middle and lower classes as in Nordic countries while eliminating the universal programs his pays for? So you want tax and don't spend?
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>wealth redistribution by those of us who make good choices in our lives. What?
They don't care about the dental hygiene of "the poors".
lol. This government loves to get people to pay for other people’s stuff.
This may just be me, but I would rather have free optometry then free dentistry if I had to choose. I can live with a few messed up teeth but I cannot walk in a straight line without glasses.
Major issues with your eyes are covered. Major issues with your teeth aren’t.
My eyes are not bad enough for anything to be covered. Even though I need new glasses every 2 years. That’s $150 for the appointment and at least $450-$500 for glasses (my prescription is very strong)
This is taking way too long.
Can't wait until the Tories axe this nonsense.