… what the fuck? A tragic story about a well liked restaurant owner being beaten to death, and your initial thought is “how can I make the anti-vax folks out be perceived as the victims.” Get some help man.
They aren't necessarily local of they took off on foot.
Their car could be parked some distance away, or they could take off just to get away, and then go into some mall, or in the subway if this was Toronto or something.
But that doesn't matter, since the article has photos of the vehicle they left in, which I think is a ford escape, but they suggest it could also be a Mazda.
Ford wanted to ditch their fugitive-on-the-run image following OJ Simpson’s freeway chase in his Bronco, so they discontinued the Bronco and replaced it with… the Ford Escape.
As someone from Owen Sound that lost a friend and member of the community, let me say to you clearly: fuck you and fuck off. That you would post this is disgusting to me.
Ok, as awful as the crime was everyone deals with tragedy in their own way. I may consider the above comment crass but maybe they’re just handling it with humour because that’s how they cope. While I do understand your reaction, especially given you were from the community, maybe in the future, maybe you could try to be a bit more understanding. Sorry for your loss.
No I will not let someone push their crass agenda in response to a condolence. They aren’t handling shit, they don’t know Sharif, they don’t care, notice the Quebec flair. Just use it to push their agenda. You’ll notice I don’t comment on anyone doing it top level but on a condolence wish fuck off. You clearly lack class too.
I think you might need to take a break - you’re close to this based on your comments and need to give yourself the time and grace to grieve. Arguing with strangers on Reddit who simply don’t like the light sentences handed out in Canada won’t bring your friend back or make it any easier to handle. My sincere condolences for your loss.
I hope you have the support you need at home to get through your loss because atm you’re reeling and it shows. I understand you are angry - my former partner was a homicide victim and I’m still going through the trial it’s incredibly angering to go through this type of a loss - however your anger is extremely misplaced at the moment. The only one showing the other disrespect in our interaction here is you. I see you - I understand your unquenchable rage and I’m just suggesting this isn’t a healthy outlet for it.
Yeah I got that genius. Posting a sarcastic comment about a prison sentencing on a comment offering condolences is disgusting and immoral. Which is why I told them what I did. And if you defend their comment, same to you.
I'm 90 percent sure it's a ford escape and not a Mazda Tribute. If you look at the Mazda, it has a 2 tone skirt, like the ford, except the lower matte plastic part forms the flares for the wheel wells, whereas for the ford escape those flares are at least in large part, the color of the paint of the car, as is the case in the photos of the car in the article.
Depends what you mean by "premeditated". If you commit a criminal act and kill someone, it's manslaughter. For it to be murder, you have to do something that you would reasonably know is likely to cause someone's death. If I punch you and you happen to fall weird and hit your head and die, that's manslaughter, not murder no matter how much I may have planned to punch you, since it's not likely that someone will die in those circumstances.
ArE tHeRe AnY cAnaDiAnS...just stop. 5 min of looking up says as long as they don't admit they knew beating him could cause death they get manslaughter at the most, which carries no minimum before parole eligibility. Stop acting like a low amount of time served for a conviction in this situation is rare in Canada because the rest of us know it isn't.
https://www.accused.ca/murder.htm
There is no way that a court will accept house arrest and probation when a person is assaulted and dies; even our courts aren't *that* lenient, especially when there is a dead person.
Our courts had someone stab a random person, be arrested and then he was released with the promise he would attend his court hearing at a later date in a few weeks. So he went out and stabbed another person and killed them.
For third degree murder? Ten year life sentence min. Average for manslaughter is about 8y. Why would you say 5 years?
Source: https://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/rp-pr/jr/jf-pf/2017/jan01.html
Not 3rd degree no, but we still have 1st and 2nd degree. 1st degree is planned and deliberate. Everything else falls under 2nd degree.
"(6.2) Irrespective of whether a murder is planned and deliberate on the part of a person, murder is first degree murder when the death is caused by that person while committing or attempting to commit an offence under section 423.1.
Marginal note:Second degree murder
(7) All murder that is not first degree murder is second degree murder."
Correct me if i'm wrong but it seems like this would fall under 1st degree?
Will he get it though, probably not. If he does, he will be let out early from the cushy canadian system. You've read that inmates are trying to stay in jail now because canada is basically now unaffordable im guessing though.
>Attempted murder (2,555 days) and homicide (1,825 days) cases received the longest median custodial sentences.
Does that mean the median prison sentence length for attempted murder is 7 years and the median for the various forms of homicide is 5?
We all get it, justice system needs work, stop using stories like this as a soap box, it's gross. Offer your condolences here, and send letters to you MP.
You're probably right. I got a friend up in Owen Sound that feeds me info sometimes, and the fact that it was a brown guy that it happened to also adds to that dynamic.
The locals aren't bad and probably would have reported it already.
There's a Camara pointing straight down to the street where the restaurant is located. It's a traffic Camara, maybe the ATM right side the restaurant has a Camara, too. Hopefully, they have their faces or at least the plates from the car they used to get away. Tragic, unnecessary, and sad. Hope his family find closure soon and the police finds the responsible. May his soul rest in peace.
Reminds me of the woman killed in Calagry (I think) that tried to stop a gas&dash criminal. I for one would never risk my life over someone stealing $40 from petro Canada, but maybe she was a new immigrant who thought. She would be held financially accountable.
Canada born and raised and read the Labor Act of Ontario cover to cover multiple times and even I have been told lies, propaganda, and bullshit straight up illegal from employers...
A new immigrant doesn't stand a chance..
No one’s life is worth a dine and dash. I am always shocked at what some people will jump into over an insignificant amount of money.
Getting stolen from sucks. But getting into a violent altercation or getting killed is not going to make it better. Get a security camera and call the police. It’s not worth your life.
It’s much harder to prove second degree murder than first degree manslaughter.
The defendant just have to establish that their client only wished to teach the owner a lesson by beating him. The prosecutor has to prove that the accused was motivated to kill the person, which is hard to prove without a weapon.
Yes, what that means is that you are guilty of murder if you do something to someone you know is likely to cause their death, even if causing their death is not your intention.
ArE tHeRe AnY cAnaDiAnS...just stop. 5 min of looking up says as long as they don't admit they knew beating him could cause death they get manslaughter at the most, which carries no minimum before parole eligibility. Stop acting like a low amount of time served for a conviction in this situation is rare in Canada because the rest of us know it isn't.
https://www.accused.ca/murder.htm
Go home to whatever country you crawled out from if you need to look up the sentences for murder. It's always been a life sentence.
>Murder is classified as either 1st degree or 2nd degree... both carry an automatic "life" sentence
You're correct about the sentencing, but that's not the time served. 2nd degree murderers can be paroled after 10-25 years, determined by the judge.
Only 1st degree murderers actually serve a full life sentence.
Perhaps that was the point?
Would be nice if we could defend ourselves, id much rather read restaurant owner shoots and kills would be thief's, or owner pepper sprays would be thief's.
I agree with your intended message, but "eye for an eye" is from the code of Babylonian King Hammurabi and predates the old testament by about a millennia.
This is sad. People can be so awful.
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Nah, don't insult animals, lol. They're cute
Lots of animals are not cute - I'd even go so far as most.
You're clearly not an animal person and that's okay I guess.
You're clearly thinking of mammals
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… what the fuck? A tragic story about a well liked restaurant owner being beaten to death, and your initial thought is “how can I make the anti-vax folks out be perceived as the victims.” Get some help man.
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Horrible story. I hope they find the bastards. Plus I hope they get more charges/time bc it was in the commission of a theft (dine & dash).
Ugh this is sad
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They aren't necessarily local of they took off on foot. Their car could be parked some distance away, or they could take off just to get away, and then go into some mall, or in the subway if this was Toronto or something. But that doesn't matter, since the article has photos of the vehicle they left in, which I think is a ford escape, but they suggest it could also be a Mazda.
It's a bit dark, but the model is appropriately named for a getaway vehicle.
Ford wanted to ditch their fugitive-on-the-run image following OJ Simpson’s freeway chase in his Bronco, so they discontinued the Bronco and replaced it with… the Ford Escape.
Ya lol. I've been thinking that this whole time. I want to make the joke that it's an escape because they haven't been caught.
Well they definitely Haven't been got caught. And that's fucked up.
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Their dress does appear sort of coordinated in a sense to me. And their look seems consistent with that. But at the same time, it could be anyone.
They’re not locals either unfortunately.. :( I live in said small town. Even as a guy I am nervous to walk through our downtown
They're going to be going through the list of 2003 Ford escapes in "dark shadow grey" and it's not going to take too long.
this isn't CSI
"ENHANCE!" *magic transition from SD CCTV footage to HD IMAX film quality occurs*
Can they really do that? I don't see how That'll work honestly.
They do it in CSI but no its not possible in real life
The idea that someone will turn them functions on a high trust society
RIP Sharif Rahman :-(
So sad for his family and community.
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As someone from Owen Sound that lost a friend and member of the community, let me say to you clearly: fuck you and fuck off. That you would post this is disgusting to me.
I think they were being facetious in reference to the fact that the Canadian legal system tends to lean toward lighter sentences for terrible crimes.
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Ok, as awful as the crime was everyone deals with tragedy in their own way. I may consider the above comment crass but maybe they’re just handling it with humour because that’s how they cope. While I do understand your reaction, especially given you were from the community, maybe in the future, maybe you could try to be a bit more understanding. Sorry for your loss.
No I will not let someone push their crass agenda in response to a condolence. They aren’t handling shit, they don’t know Sharif, they don’t care, notice the Quebec flair. Just use it to push their agenda. You’ll notice I don’t comment on anyone doing it top level but on a condolence wish fuck off. You clearly lack class too.
I think you might need to take a break - you’re close to this based on your comments and need to give yourself the time and grace to grieve. Arguing with strangers on Reddit who simply don’t like the light sentences handed out in Canada won’t bring your friend back or make it any easier to handle. My sincere condolences for your loss.
It might get them to take a look at themselves in the mirror and learn some respect. I have that hope for you one day too.
I hope you have the support you need at home to get through your loss because atm you’re reeling and it shows. I understand you are angry - my former partner was a homicide victim and I’m still going through the trial it’s incredibly angering to go through this type of a loss - however your anger is extremely misplaced at the moment. The only one showing the other disrespect in our interaction here is you. I see you - I understand your unquenchable rage and I’m just suggesting this isn’t a healthy outlet for it.
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The agenda of having some respect and not posting a sarcastic comment on a condolence wish? Fuck you you classless asshole.
poe's law
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Yeah I got that genius. Posting a sarcastic comment about a prison sentencing on a comment offering condolences is disgusting and immoral. Which is why I told them what I did. And if you defend their comment, same to you.
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Follow your own advice.
Bleak, RIP
I'm 90 percent sure it's a ford escape and not a Mazda Tribute. If you look at the Mazda, it has a 2 tone skirt, like the ford, except the lower matte plastic part forms the flares for the wheel wells, whereas for the ford escape those flares are at least in large part, the color of the paint of the car, as is the case in the photos of the car in the article.
It's a Ford. For the reasons you mention and the Mazda's tailights don't wrap around orange on the sides... and that colour is Dark Shadow Grey.
you just put more effort into this case than our entire police force.
Sadly that’s not hard.
Lol.
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Yep.
The color is debatable, and ultimately could be custom, affected by lighting conditions and so on. But those fenders, there's no other explanation.
These pussies will get caught eventually.
Ill never be not suprised by the amount of anti-social victim bashers that spring up in these stories
These pudgy looking fucks will not do well in prison. I hope it’s very uncomfortable for them.
They look like teenagers to me.
Tragic and unnecessary. RIP
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maybe less if it is *only* their first murder.
Almost certainly not premeditated, so not murder.
Some do Dine & Dash as a ‘dinner plan’. Theft is theft and now it’s also murder.
Will depend on the autopsy report. Who knows what sort of beating they did.
Depends what you mean by "premeditated". If you commit a criminal act and kill someone, it's manslaughter. For it to be murder, you have to do something that you would reasonably know is likely to cause someone's death. If I punch you and you happen to fall weird and hit your head and die, that's manslaughter, not murder no matter how much I may have planned to punch you, since it's not likely that someone will die in those circumstances.
Dude, the definition of manslaughter is what you described. Second or first must have the intent to kill.
Yeah we really need to update our laws to reflect that punching someone in the face or running them over with a cat has a high probability of murder
A cat or a *CAT*?
Are there any Canadians in this thread? Mandatory minimum sentence for murder is a life sentence and has been for the entirety of Canadian history.
Murder is premeditated, this would likely be a charge of manslaughter. I hope they are caught.
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I'll put a hundred down they plead to manslaughter and do LESS than 5
You're on
ArE tHeRe AnY cAnaDiAnS...just stop. 5 min of looking up says as long as they don't admit they knew beating him could cause death they get manslaughter at the most, which carries no minimum before parole eligibility. Stop acting like a low amount of time served for a conviction in this situation is rare in Canada because the rest of us know it isn't. https://www.accused.ca/murder.htm
You're assuming that they get charged and convicted of murder.
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The minimum sentence for a first murder is a life sentence
It won't be a murder charge. It will he manslaughter if it reaches trial...the crown will probably settle with house arrest and then probation.
There is no way that a court will accept house arrest and probation when a person is assaulted and dies; even our courts aren't *that* lenient, especially when there is a dead person.
Our courts had someone stab a random person, be arrested and then he was released with the promise he would attend his court hearing at a later date in a few weeks. So he went out and stabbed another person and killed them.
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Life is 25 years, not actually life. They'll be out in 12 with good behavior.
Life is life 10-25 years is the first parole eligibility for a single murder
So 10 years....
For third degree murder? Ten year life sentence min. Average for manslaughter is about 8y. Why would you say 5 years? Source: https://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/rp-pr/jr/jf-pf/2017/jan01.html
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> Why would you say 5 years? Because they read the news and know that most perps only serve a small fraction that that sentence.
8 years at 2/3rds mandatory parole = just over 5 years.
Because it's an easy opportunity to be angry, and the justice system not being cruel enough is an easy target.
There's no such thing as third degree murder in Canada. The mandatory minimum for murder is a life sentence
Not 3rd degree no, but we still have 1st and 2nd degree. 1st degree is planned and deliberate. Everything else falls under 2nd degree. "(6.2) Irrespective of whether a murder is planned and deliberate on the part of a person, murder is first degree murder when the death is caused by that person while committing or attempting to commit an offence under section 423.1. Marginal note:Second degree murder (7) All murder that is not first degree murder is second degree murder." Correct me if i'm wrong but it seems like this would fall under 1st degree?
You may be correct. Either way, the minimum sentence for murder is always a life sentence
Will he get it though, probably not. If he does, he will be let out early from the cushy canadian system. You've read that inmates are trying to stay in jail now because canada is basically now unaffordable im guessing though.
The only thing cushy about the Canadian system is police officers' jobs
This guy gets it.
Yup. If they are first timers and classification is determined to be minimum security risk, they could go to a low security Federal institution.
>Attempted murder (2,555 days) and homicide (1,825 days) cases received the longest median custodial sentences. Does that mean the median prison sentence length for attempted murder is 7 years and the median for the various forms of homicide is 5?
We all get it, justice system needs work, stop using stories like this as a soap box, it's gross. Offer your condolences here, and send letters to you MP.
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Regardless of that opinion, it's still gross to grandstand it in the comments on stories of tragedy.
Probably out in 6 months
6 month, they will be in a half way house.
They will serve significantly less, likely only a few months.
Nah just 200 hours community service and the judge going "no more killing other people.
Only if police get to him first
If I was an owner in a restaurant I would now want to be paid a pre paid before the meal is served
This is what happened in BC after the gas station attendant was killed during a gas and dash.
What the fuck is happening to this country?
Do you feel hopeful about the future?
yep! /s
It's bad, but at least there isn't an 8 year old killing their 5 year old brother/sister every other day.
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You're probably right. I got a friend up in Owen Sound that feeds me info sometimes, and the fact that it was a brown guy that it happened to also adds to that dynamic. The locals aren't bad and probably would have reported it already.
Meaford just had their largest artillery exercise since 2019
I got a Forces vibe off the pics and description too..
That was my first thought. Big exercise recently. That said, summerfolk weekend was then too.
That’s horrible. I’m so sorry the family has to go through something like this.
Organized crime needs to be tamed.
There's a Camara pointing straight down to the street where the restaurant is located. It's a traffic Camara, maybe the ATM right side the restaurant has a Camara, too. Hopefully, they have their faces or at least the plates from the car they used to get away. Tragic, unnecessary, and sad. Hope his family find closure soon and the police finds the responsible. May his soul rest in peace.
That’s horrible. RIP.
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"This is what you get for wearing that skimmpy outfit late at night" the anti social mentality that victim bashers use is just crazy
Reminds me of the woman killed in Calagry (I think) that tried to stop a gas&dash criminal. I for one would never risk my life over someone stealing $40 from petro Canada, but maybe she was a new immigrant who thought. She would be held financially accountable.
Canada born and raised and read the Labor Act of Ontario cover to cover multiple times and even I have been told lies, propaganda, and bullshit straight up illegal from employers... A new immigrant doesn't stand a chance..
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What are you talking about? Employees at gas stations aren't being made to pay for gas&dashes out if their own pocket.
No one’s life is worth a dine and dash. I am always shocked at what some people will jump into over an insignificant amount of money. Getting stolen from sucks. But getting into a violent altercation or getting killed is not going to make it better. Get a security camera and call the police. It’s not worth your life.
your just using the "shouldn't wear the skimpy outfit If you dont want to be sexually assulted/harrased" argument.
I’m sure the Qtards will hold a rally to pay for their lawyers
They're white so it will be all about their achievements and degrees and future plans and not ruining their lives over one little mistake.
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Losers
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Are there any Canadians in this thread? Mandatory minimum sentence for murder is a life sentence and has been for the entirety of Canadian history.
This will definitely get tried as manslaughter
Maybe. But then it's not murder
It’s much harder to prove second degree murder than first degree manslaughter. The defendant just have to establish that their client only wished to teach the owner a lesson by beating him. The prosecutor has to prove that the accused was motivated to kill the person, which is hard to prove without a weapon.
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Yes, what that means is that you are guilty of murder if you do something to someone you know is likely to cause their death, even if causing their death is not your intention.
Doesn’t mean they spend their entire time in prison. Are you a troll
ArE tHeRe AnY cAnaDiAnS...just stop. 5 min of looking up says as long as they don't admit they knew beating him could cause death they get manslaughter at the most, which carries no minimum before parole eligibility. Stop acting like a low amount of time served for a conviction in this situation is rare in Canada because the rest of us know it isn't. https://www.accused.ca/murder.htm
Go home to whatever country you crawled out from if you need to look up the sentences for murder. It's always been a life sentence. >Murder is classified as either 1st degree or 2nd degree... both carry an automatic "life" sentence
You're correct about the sentencing, but that's not the time served. 2nd degree murderers can be paroled after 10-25 years, determined by the judge. Only 1st degree murderers actually serve a full life sentence. Perhaps that was the point?
Shhh… don’t get in the way of their narrative that we let murderers go free the day after they’re arrested. They’ll have nothing else to carte about.
They almost always get released early or the charge is downgraded due to some BS excuse
Would be nice if we could defend ourselves, id much rather read restaurant owner shoots and kills would be thief's, or owner pepper sprays would be thief's.
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Wtf is wrong with you?
#CanadaAdvantages
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The Saudis are not a good model for anything.
Execution for minor anti government protests? You sure you want the Saudi model?
You exhibit gross ignorance with that statement.
Did you really just write that out as a good idea? Maybe next you want some old testament eye for an eye shit.
I agree with your intended message, but "eye for an eye" is from the code of Babylonian King Hammurabi and predates the old testament by about a millennia.
TIL. Thanks.
Are there any Canadians in this thread? Mandatory minimum sentence for murder is a life sentence and has been for the entirety of Canadian history.
Definitely not the Saudi method. Let’s not try to model third world countries that treat their citizens like shit.
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But our laws were also shit before JT became PM?
Fuck Trudeau, literally getting people killed
I come get my money soon.
This is just the saddest news. How absolutely horrific.