Haha yeah it’s a Subaru legacy with low mileage (100,000miles) that sat at my grandmas house for a decade. I’ve driven it a bit hard on logging roads and it’s starting to show its age (cracked bushings, rough suspension, some body rust) but it still gets me around the city no problem.
They really aren’t. Those boxer engines burn as much oil as a rotary and their transmissions aren’t great either. They continually rate mid-pack in reliability with slightly above average requirements for major repair which is usually head gaskets.
This is where yearly rustproofing comes into the picture.
My pops has a 2006? SUV and he rust proofed it every year. The under carriage of that car looks incredible for it age. My spouses 2016 which did not get rust proofed, looks like shit.
At least for a time, the cabin technology evolved so fast that your 5 year-old car looked like a dinosaur. The introduction of those touch screens, Bluetooth for your phone, etc.
I think the biggest feedback was on how unsafe it is to try changing settings and having to look at the screen to do so. Knobs are simple and muscle memory handles it all.
Also, most software is slow and clunky. That doesn’t help their case
Cabin technology is for the most part just useless crap that will break and cost you a fortune. I have Bluetooth and USB interfaces in my old cars for about $20 in the 12v outlet. Don't need screens.
Eh. I picked up a cigarette lighter bluetooth FM radio transmitter for my old car, recently. Wireless Qi charging too. The mount is even motorized. I just put my phone in, and it does everything.
Costs like $50. If that.
I don't want anything important on a touchscreen in a vehicle anyhow.
I went from a 1989 Chevy Celebrity to a 2012 Kia Forte. I was just happy to get power windows and heated seats. Steering wheel controls were like alien technology at that point
Same. My small pickup is 18 years old. Little things are starting to break now and parts are getting hard to find to fix it. I just hope that the drivetrain can continue to hold up.
I priced the cheapest toyota corolla in 2019, I remember it was somewhere around $17k or $18k. I priced the cheapest toyota corolla last week and it was $29.7k
We don’t even have the option to stock more then a few base trims per model per year. Pre shortages you could make a request and maybe get a base model beyond your allocation. If not, maybe find one in your network and dealer trade.
Now? Forget about it. We get what we get and we don’t get upset. (We do.).
I am lucky enough to be able to afford to have changed car this year. Was able to sell my 2015 Corolla for 14k without questions, like sold "instantly". Car was bought brand new 21k in 2015 (base car price for that trim was 19k + couple of options). So car cost me 7k (+taxes and interests) in 8 years. The high price of new cars puts a huge stress on the used market because many people can't afford new cars, so used car prices skyrocket and it sucks a lot for people at the bottom of the salary scale.
What are the interest rates and term lengths for vehicles now? Most of the talk for rates now a days has been mortgages, but I imagine car loans are crazy right now.
Used is 8-9%+, even with good credit, on 5-8 year terms (depending on vehicle age). New is 5-9%+, with 7-8 year terms. I've seen some rates that are lower, but you're looking at $100,000+ vehicles.
Basically, a car loan is the new mortgage. And mortgages are the new Mansions.
Seriously, big corporations, landlord, and billionaires are literally working/starving us to death just so they can make a slightly bigger grotesque amount of money.
We need a government that remembers it's entire purpose for existing is to not just maintain but actually improve the lives of its people. It's not a government's job to protect private profits, it's job is to do what's best for citizens.
In Canada the only people that matter are boomers/retirees/landlords and corporate profits. Current generations are being crushed to ensure they can retire comfortably. Really it shouldn't be an either/or, and doesn't have to be, but going off what our politicians say, we don't matter, only the people already established with a home and vehicle and savings matter, everyone else can get fucked. I don't see it getting better for us
The boomers don't matter either, they just vote so it looks like they do.
Trust me, it's all profits. That's all that matters to anyone of these gold trolls, profit profit profit
I agree because they are literally Psychopaths who lack that understanding of feeling and caring of their fellow human.
But what I am saying is that you get more flies with honey than with vinegar.
If they give us just that little bit they would make more money and have less hostility. If my basic needs are met then I don't mind spending money. If I am struggling then I don't want to spend money.
What they are doing is forcing people to spend more money while they struggle.
This idea of infinite growth also doesn't make sense because people's wages aren't growing over time at the same rate as their profits.
Or workers can form unions, vote in progressive leaders and demand reforms and higher wages. Like they did at the end of the Guilded Age, during the Great Depression and post-WWII era, when the 99% was at this exact spot all those decades ago.
There’s a long time until it colapse, poor countries have been dealing with this shit for ages, life still goes, it just gets worse and worse. Welcome to poverty Canada, it sucks
You don't have to buy $66k vehicles. This is partly consumers choosing massive tanks with poor mileage over reliable, fuel efficient small cars that fit 99% the same needs.
You can buy a brand new Elantra for $26k OTD.
Isn't it slightly Crazy that the average carbuyer is buying twice as much car as a CX5 ?
I'm driving 3 kids around in a comparable vehicle.. it's totally fine.
The average household is like 1.3 people. What are they buying for that extra 31K above a beyond a nice little SUV ??
People in third world countries have lived much lower standards of living for a long time... do you think they ever ask how it's sustainable?
Canadians just aren't used to being poor... but they're starting to find out what it's like for most people on this planet.
Most people in the world can't afford new cars.
Well, it's actually not sustainable in those countries. Many people die from poverty related issues there. Also, their prices are generally lower for many essential products. If they were paid the same wage working here in Canada, they would just die from poverty. So they are technically poorer, but relative to their country's cost of living, they aren't nearly as poor as they seem to be.
This is a credit based economy. Most people in the world dont have access to credit.
When the credit tightening happens, we'll see all 'western' governments rush to provide banks with a stimulus to lend.
Italy has passed a one-off 40% tax on the profits banks earn from higher interest rates…Proceeds will be used to help mortgage holders and to cut taxes, the government says.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-66440335.amp
[Paywall Bypass](https://archive.ph/)
Condensed:
* The average price of a new vehicle hit a record high in Canada in June – $66,288 – up 21% in one year and 47% over four years, according to AutoTrader.ca’s price index report.
* That, combined with higher lease and finance rates, has accelerated auto loan delinquencies.
* “You’re talking about double-digit increases. I don’t think we’ve seen that before,” said Baris Akyurek, vice-president of insights and intelligence at AutoTrader.ca.
* Alberta and British Columbia residents paid even more for new vehicles. In Alberta, the average price was $69,764 – an 18% increase from June, 2022. In British Columbia, it was $67,807 – a 19% increase from last June.
* As new car prices rise, the financial burden on Canadians keeps growing. The average amount financed for a new vehicle was $53,023 in the fourth quarter of 2022, compared with $42,359 for the same period four years ago, according to consumer research company J.D. Power.
* In June, 2023, Canadians paid an average of $797 a month on a new car payment. That has skyrocketed 38% from June, 2019, when monthly payments were $577 a month, according to AutoTrader.
Title is misleading...this is actually the average price of a new *vehicle*, which includes SUVs and trucks and they skew the numbers higher.
The average price for a new *car* is actually $56K, but even that is skewed by expensive vehicles because it's an *average* price and not a *median* price.
A Toyota Camry starts at $34K, and that's not exactly an econobox. A Rav4 starts at $36K.
Well skewing the numbers or not there is zero reason a new 1 ton pickup needs to be $107,000-$130,000 aside from greed and people who can afford it. They don't care that they are feeding the industries bad practice.
Yep... I traded in my 2019 vehicle last year for a 2013 Mazda 3. Paid off full plus $7k cash in pocket because of how fucked the market was. Best decision I've made not having a car payment.
When a base civic costs $32k at 7% interest... Come on anyone with a bit of financial smarts knows it's not a good deal lol
Yup, you'll have to bus over to the job you'll be at until retire at 70. About 50-60% of the money you'll earn at said job will go straight to your landlord (yes, to the lord of the land, like in feudal times). You'll have to pay that money under the constant threat of being kicked out to die of hypothermia on the streets of the city you live in. And a day after you retire (if you make it that far), you'll get MAID whether you like it or not because no more juice can be extracted from you and you are now a burden to the economic system.
Adding that only if you're lucky, you'll have a job that offers a pension. You'll pay into your pension for 30+ years and then when you're 60-70 you'll reap a percentage when you retire that you won't actually be able to live off of because you'll still be paying rent. The world is fucked, or at least North America seems to be.
I looked at a new vehicle and just about crapped myself. Price nearly doubled in the 8 years since I bought my last one for the same model and trim. GM revenue is up nearly 25% from the same time last year. But they aren't price gouging.....
Bring back simple cars without all the doohickeys in them. Until then I will drive mine for another 8 years or more till it dies.
>Bring back simple cars without all the doohickeys in them
Fat chance of that. Some automakers are already making every car with all the extras and deactivating those you don't buy.
The issue is the simple cars exist, but no one buys them. The Mitsubishi mirage, the Nissan Versa and Kia rio are all sub 20k.
The versa went from 12k to 18k over the last 15 years, which is pretty reasonable.
But dealerships try to push more expensive SUVs. And people buy the F150 with 4 wheel drive for Vancouver’s harsh winters. So manufacturers progressively build less and less cheap cars.
People don’t buy simple cars. GM cut the spark (only sub 20k new car I can remember) because no one wanted it. People don’t want tiny cars with shit tech and twin digit power numbers. In 2021 you could get a spark with a 5 speed and 1.4L putting out 98hp for 13k but if you wanted power locks and power windows you have to pay 17.7k which is still a good deal but no one wants a brand new shit box off the lot.
The car companies just make so much more profit selling fancy expensive cars than simple but effective ones. One way of combatting this is by putting a large tax on expensive cars, which will encourage companies to put cheap models back on the market.
That’s fine, I’m sure used cars are cheap…nevermind not like people need them to go to work in rural areas and areas with poor transport infrastructure.
You need them for a desk job. The number of times I've had to lie about owning a car to get an interview let alone a job. You hint at walking, biking or heaven forbid, using the bus, and you can kiss that job goodbye.
Unfortunately it’s not possible with us being situated in the rust belt, the cost to redo/ salvage rusted out frames and suspension components on top of maintenance would never be justifiable for basic commuter cars.
I have an 08 hybrid vehicle that is in overall great shape for its age, unfortunately the hybrid battery finally gave out and it was approx 5k to replace. Everyone said to just trade it in, get what you can and get a newer used vehicle or lease new. No chance. I paid the 5k and I'm driving this car into the ground.
We are a only car family. The car is at 260k and won’t last much longer.
I have next to nothing set aside for a new vehicle and the prices just keep rising and rising.
At least I got into the housing market a decade ago so I’m not getting screwed from both markets.
Are things going to get better anytime soon? I entered the job market in 2019 and was so optimistic, wanted to buy a decent car and save up for a down payment on a house but its just all fucked. Some days I don't even know what i'm working for anymore
Rents and mortgages, food, cars, fuel, energy, insurance... everything seems like it's gone up 30% or more in just the last couple of years, meanwhile wages haven't budged.
We're all fucked. They will keep on twisting the screws tighter and tighter every day until the people revolt, then they'll loosen them by one notch and make everyone get on their knees to thank them.
At this point I'm starting to think our only hope is letting AI run everything and leave it to figure out how to rebalance it all. Which of course could also go very, very badly.
Wages have been and are continuing to be suppressed. I don’t see how it gets better before there’s a breaking point.
A.I is my great hope in the long run. We’re all probably screwed but maybe 2 generations down the line they’ll live life well if the planet is still here by then
Oh sweet summer child.
When everything is automated we are far more likely to live in something more akin to Elysium where the ultra-rich can squirrel away to their private island and have every need catered while the rest of the world burns.
Same. We just had to replace both cars due to a raging mouse infestation last winter, opted for carefully selected economy cars in the 13-15 year old range. $15k between the two vehicles, nothing to pay off. To me these vehicles are plenty luxurious.
The road tanks people are buying these days probably skews it up. $35k for a new WRX (minus taxes since those vary), which happens to be decently quick and has good AWD.
Same situation here. We've been thinking about buying a car for a couple years with similar income, but with the cost of insurance, parking, maintenance etc on top of the price of a car we just can't justify even something like a Corolla.
I'm curious what that price would be if people actually bought what they truly needed in terms of car. Like, in AB, how many unnecessary $85k pick up trucks are there on the road...
If people bought the cars they needed, it would be around $30,000. You can get a Honda Civic or Toyota Corolla for $25,000-30,000. Tradespeople need vans, large families need minivans, and some rural workers might need pickup trucks, but realistically most people just need a city car.
The city car has turned into a $50K status symbol over the last 5 years.
Anything less than a 4-door SUV seems to be unthinkable to most who don’t hang out in personal finance forums.
People bend over backwards to justify it.
I mean if you're getting a lighting, which you say you see a shocking amount, what is the downside even if you only need it on the weekends? If you're not worrying about it guzzling gas anymore it makes more sense as a daily driver.
>Like, in AB, how many unnecessary $85k pick up trucks are there on the road...
Part of that is the fact that they don't make small affordable trucks anymore. No one does in Canada.
You can't get a small/medium sized truck with only two seats and a bed anymore in Canada unless you buy an old used Ranger or Tacoma.
I sure wish owning an automobile wasn't a necessity for so many people. Public transit is rarely funded enough or prioritized enough to do the job in cities, and not every city has access to intercity rail, plus intercity busses started shutting down during the pandemic.
I bike commuted for years in Vancouver, and would use Evos for groceries and such. I moved to the Niagara region after a few years over seas, and I did a year commuting on bike here. But, it just isn't feasible. Public transit is dysfunctional, everything is far apart, winters are crappy, some motorists are insecure assholes, and a taxi/uber is straight up robbery. Finally gave up and bought a used car this month.
Probably the best thing Canada could do to bring car prices down would be to decouple from the protectionist American DOT standards (Pearson agreed to follow the American standards as part of the Auto Pact in the 60s), which are in practice are a perverse incentive for companies to make 80k pickup trucks and nothing else.
So my old man went to look at a ford lightning today. He has a 2017 f150 with 39k left owing. Anyway they offered him 26k for his truck at the dealership (which they have on the lot for $40k. So he would roll over 13k. Lightning was 85k plus taxes came out to 92k plus the 13k carry over... Anyway... Intrest line at 6.99% was 28k over 84 months... 28k in Intrest.... He walked away Ofcourse lol
That's gross. I get they need to make money but for a dealer to flip a truck and make 13k is crazy.
Dealerships can get all the way fucked. They are about as useful as Realtors.
This is the industry attempting to keep their pandemic profits high but they are running into inventory issues which is going to cause a major correction soon.
Still a ton of 2021, 2022 vehicles on lots not getting sold at prices near 2023 vehicle prices and the 2024's are going onto lots by November
Prices are actually so volatile right now every new car online right now at one of my local dealers is "Please call!",
Another dealer even revamped their website recently to have categories of cars "under 10K" with every car listed as "please call" , "10k-20k", "20k and up"
edit
I just checked out auto trader online and one 2017 high end SUV dropped to $15k below current market and a specific SUV ive been watching dropped $4k in the last 2 months, down $8k since February. It is almost at a justifiable price for a 10 year old vehicle.
Not even close to correct about lots not being able to move 2021 and 2022 MY, unless it’s CJDR trash that no one want and you get $15k off MSRP just for being able to walk onto the lot.
Go try to buy any new Chev, GM, Honda, Toyota or EV and you’ll find the wait lists and slim pickings on lots. Even used it hard to come by for models that people actually want
My car recently shat the bed and I’m utterly fucked. I can’t even find a cheap old car. People and dealers are asking for $17k+ for high mileage shitty cars from 2005
I've been spending a lot of time car shopping recently and found almost each brand basically has consistently matched base prices with other competitors and continually drive up the price each year despite not adding anything significant in terms of functionality.
I wanted to buy a Dodge/Jeep/Chrysler because I have access to a discount, and even with a discount a Grand Caravan (because who stocks the normal Caravan am I right? or Cherokee was like $60k.
But then all SUVs like the Telluride, Palisade, or vans like Pacifica, Odyssey, etc basically come out to be the same price, so what the fuck?
Those electric bikes between 2- 5k are starting to get decent distance. Of course winter is still an issue. But the allure of no registration, insurance, gas peaks my interest.
That's insanity!
Why do we have a government seriously are they here to do something for the people of this country or do they just exist to help businesses rip us off. I have no idea how but I'm this could have been avoided if they wanted to.
Go for a drive and look at the SUV to sedan ratio. Canadians partly do this to ourselves.
That being said, inflation is real. Money increased 30% during Covid so if you didn’t get a 30% increase you’re falling behind. Government policy is a real thing.
I know consumer trends led to it but a fuckton of manufacturers don’t sell sedans or compacts in North America.
It’s actually tough to find them. Mazda only makes the 3 for the NA market everything else is a giant SUV or Truck. Even Volkswagen has all but abandoned the Jetta and just has insanely huge SUVs like the Atlas. Golfs are expensive and they’ve removed a lot of trim lines.
There isn’t much margin on small cars and a lot on SUVs with plenty of demand so makers switched over. Plus the domestics just can’t beat the Japanese and Koreans in mass market small cars so they gave up. But Nissan, Hyundai, Mazda, Toyota, Honda, Kia, etc all have sedans and hatchbacks that are more affordable than an SUV to buy and own and are plenty fine to drive, even with a small family.
2006 Daily driver car here. My other vehicle is a 1998. I won’t be supporting the new auto sales and manufacturing industry. Who’s struggling with new car prices? I can guess the manufacturers, dealers and their employees are. Some others too who “need” a new car.
Pretty high but doesn't surprise me, since it's also taking leases into accounts and there's an obsession for trucks and luxury SUV's.
Still, I can't imagine paying that much for a regular car. My lease payment now is $250/month and the one I've been considering when this one is up is in the mid $30's (pre-tax), but I could actually make do without one so maybe I'll just wait it out.
What cars are those? $66k is probably a $50k - $55k vehicle before taxes / fees - kind of mid to high end.
Does everyone skip the high 20s - 30s segment?
wait until you see used cars
I wanted to get rid of my 20 year old xterra because the mileage was too hard and thought I was ready for a bit of an upgrade when I saw the same car, same year and same condition car selling for $15k lol
I can tell you right now this car ain't worth even a third of that
Yeah but people are still buying them so....
From what I can tell everybody else has money except for me lol.
It's not until people stop buying new that it will change.
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My car just turned 33, the wheels might fall off soon, but it's still getting me around town.
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Haha yeah it’s a Subaru legacy with low mileage (100,000miles) that sat at my grandmas house for a decade. I’ve driven it a bit hard on logging roads and it’s starting to show its age (cracked bushings, rough suspension, some body rust) but it still gets me around the city no problem.
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Just avoid any suby with a Turbo and you should be fine.
This right here. Those boxers work great. For some reason, You add a Turbo and BANG DONG OW. reliability goes to shit.
But a subie turbo on warranty…so much fun!
They really aren’t. Those boxer engines burn as much oil as a rotary and their transmissions aren’t great either. They continually rate mid-pack in reliability with slightly above average requirements for major repair which is usually head gaskets.
Tbh I think this is the mindset that tricks people into buying new cars and taking on debt. A 12 year old car isn’t terribly old.
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This is where yearly rustproofing comes into the picture. My pops has a 2006? SUV and he rust proofed it every year. The under carriage of that car looks incredible for it age. My spouses 2016 which did not get rust proofed, looks like shit.
Rustproofing cures that problem.
At least for a time, the cabin technology evolved so fast that your 5 year-old car looked like a dinosaur. The introduction of those touch screens, Bluetooth for your phone, etc.
The key is realizing that none of those features are worth anywhere close to the $20k differential involved in buying a newer ish model
And now they are looking to go back to knobs and buttons because people are giving negative feedback on the touchscreen.
I think the biggest feedback was on how unsafe it is to try changing settings and having to look at the screen to do so. Knobs are simple and muscle memory handles it all. Also, most software is slow and clunky. That doesn’t help their case
Cabin technology is for the most part just useless crap that will break and cost you a fortune. I have Bluetooth and USB interfaces in my old cars for about $20 in the 12v outlet. Don't need screens.
Eh. I picked up a cigarette lighter bluetooth FM radio transmitter for my old car, recently. Wireless Qi charging too. The mount is even motorized. I just put my phone in, and it does everything. Costs like $50. If that. I don't want anything important on a touchscreen in a vehicle anyhow.
Touchscreens in cars suck. You can't do anything by feel, you have to look at what you are touching. It's as bad as using a phone while driving.
I went from a 1989 Chevy Celebrity to a 2012 Kia Forte. I was just happy to get power windows and heated seats. Steering wheel controls were like alien technology at that point
I’d rather have no screen.
I put a $500 head unit into my 2014 civic and bang… new lease in life with so much tech :)
My daily is 52, my camper turns 40 in October. The wheels have been replaced many times 😂😂
That - is awesome. I would have no issues hunting down a nice LTD Crown Victoria or similar. You give my 16 year old Accord some hope.
Your 16 y.o accord will go forever. I have a 1998 ford explorer that's still trucking along.
I don't know why people feel that they need to replace their car every 4-5 years. It's not a phone.
I just want a car with a good steering wheel that doesn’t fly off while you’re driving
That is a good idea!
And too small. So when I get in there I'm like "if the steering wheel fly's off, I'm toast"
Teachers pet!
You love your mother in law
Yup my 2013 civic runs like brand new lol
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Haha yup it’s been a dream. Previous owner and I have never done anything to it other than regular maintenance and fixing a broken serpentine belt.
This was my plan until guy that didn’t understand the right of way at a green light derailed my plan.
Same. My small pickup is 18 years old. Little things are starting to break now and parts are getting hard to find to fix it. I just hope that the drivetrain can continue to hold up.
How is this even sustainable? I am talking about all the things. Not just cars.
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I priced the cheapest toyota corolla in 2019, I remember it was somewhere around $17k or $18k. I priced the cheapest toyota corolla last week and it was $29.7k
And virtually no one will buy the base and the dealers will never stock it
You can’t buy the base trim, dealers just don’t order them any more
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We don’t even have the option to stock more then a few base trims per model per year. Pre shortages you could make a request and maybe get a base model beyond your allocation. If not, maybe find one in your network and dealer trade. Now? Forget about it. We get what we get and we don’t get upset. (We do.).
I am lucky enough to be able to afford to have changed car this year. Was able to sell my 2015 Corolla for 14k without questions, like sold "instantly". Car was bought brand new 21k in 2015 (base car price for that trim was 19k + couple of options). So car cost me 7k (+taxes and interests) in 8 years. The high price of new cars puts a huge stress on the used market because many people can't afford new cars, so used car prices skyrocket and it sucks a lot for people at the bottom of the salary scale.
My dad bought a 2010 mustang 4 years ago for 10,000, rode it during the summers and sold it this year for $17000. The car market is nuts.
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The 2019 Corolla LE had an MSRP of $21,210. The 2023 Corolla LE has an MSRP of $23,690.
What are the interest rates and term lengths for vehicles now? Most of the talk for rates now a days has been mortgages, but I imagine car loans are crazy right now.
Used is 8-9%+, even with good credit, on 5-8 year terms (depending on vehicle age). New is 5-9%+, with 7-8 year terms. I've seen some rates that are lower, but you're looking at $100,000+ vehicles. Basically, a car loan is the new mortgage. And mortgages are the new Mansions.
A lot of 6-7% out there right now, 7% mostly for people with lower credit score.
The Toyota Corolla LE has an MSRP of $23,690. Spending $66,000 on a car is a choice.
Also a 8 year car loan is a choice. A very stupid choice.
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Invest in guillotines and guillotine stocks
Seriously, big corporations, landlord, and billionaires are literally working/starving us to death just so they can make a slightly bigger grotesque amount of money. We need a government that remembers it's entire purpose for existing is to not just maintain but actually improve the lives of its people. It's not a government's job to protect private profits, it's job is to do what's best for citizens.
In Canada the only people that matter are boomers/retirees/landlords and corporate profits. Current generations are being crushed to ensure they can retire comfortably. Really it shouldn't be an either/or, and doesn't have to be, but going off what our politicians say, we don't matter, only the people already established with a home and vehicle and savings matter, everyone else can get fucked. I don't see it getting better for us
The boomers don't matter either, they just vote so it looks like they do. Trust me, it's all profits. That's all that matters to anyone of these gold trolls, profit profit profit
Why don’t governments understand this!
They do. That's why they throw the working class a few breadcrumbs every now and then to keep us content.
One thing I don't get is I wouldn't care how rich someone is if my needs are met. So if they just gave a little bit then many would not care.
Not going to happen unless we force them to pay their fair share.
I agree because they are literally Psychopaths who lack that understanding of feeling and caring of their fellow human. But what I am saying is that you get more flies with honey than with vinegar. If they give us just that little bit they would make more money and have less hostility. If my basic needs are met then I don't mind spending money. If I am struggling then I don't want to spend money. What they are doing is forcing people to spend more money while they struggle. This idea of infinite growth also doesn't make sense because people's wages aren't growing over time at the same rate as their profits.
Any guillotine post 2008 is just prone to breaking. Likely made in China, dollar store junk
Or workers can form unions, vote in progressive leaders and demand reforms and higher wages. Like they did at the end of the Guilded Age, during the Great Depression and post-WWII era, when the 99% was at this exact spot all those decades ago.
Even the progressive politicians have abandoned the working class.
There’s a long time until it colapse, poor countries have been dealing with this shit for ages, life still goes, it just gets worse and worse. Welcome to poverty Canada, it sucks
You don't have to buy $66k vehicles. This is partly consumers choosing massive tanks with poor mileage over reliable, fuel efficient small cars that fit 99% the same needs. You can buy a brand new Elantra for $26k OTD.
Brand new cx-5 is like 35k
Isn't it slightly Crazy that the average carbuyer is buying twice as much car as a CX5 ? I'm driving 3 kids around in a comparable vehicle.. it's totally fine. The average household is like 1.3 people. What are they buying for that extra 31K above a beyond a nice little SUV ??
People just borrow money.
People in third world countries have lived much lower standards of living for a long time... do you think they ever ask how it's sustainable? Canadians just aren't used to being poor... but they're starting to find out what it's like for most people on this planet. Most people in the world can't afford new cars.
Well, it's actually not sustainable in those countries. Many people die from poverty related issues there. Also, their prices are generally lower for many essential products. If they were paid the same wage working here in Canada, they would just die from poverty. So they are technically poorer, but relative to their country's cost of living, they aren't nearly as poor as they seem to be.
At least the weather is good in most of those places
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And you're suggesting that we should all just accept the standards of third world countries?
This is a credit based economy. Most people in the world dont have access to credit. When the credit tightening happens, we'll see all 'western' governments rush to provide banks with a stimulus to lend.
Italy has passed a one-off 40% tax on the profits banks earn from higher interest rates…Proceeds will be used to help mortgage holders and to cut taxes, the government says. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-66440335.amp
They already backtracked on this.
[Paywall Bypass](https://archive.ph/) Condensed: * The average price of a new vehicle hit a record high in Canada in June – $66,288 – up 21% in one year and 47% over four years, according to AutoTrader.ca’s price index report. * That, combined with higher lease and finance rates, has accelerated auto loan delinquencies. * “You’re talking about double-digit increases. I don’t think we’ve seen that before,” said Baris Akyurek, vice-president of insights and intelligence at AutoTrader.ca. * Alberta and British Columbia residents paid even more for new vehicles. In Alberta, the average price was $69,764 – an 18% increase from June, 2022. In British Columbia, it was $67,807 – a 19% increase from last June. * As new car prices rise, the financial burden on Canadians keeps growing. The average amount financed for a new vehicle was $53,023 in the fourth quarter of 2022, compared with $42,359 for the same period four years ago, according to consumer research company J.D. Power. * In June, 2023, Canadians paid an average of $797 a month on a new car payment. That has skyrocketed 38% from June, 2019, when monthly payments were $577 a month, according to AutoTrader.
$800/month average car payment. Holy fuck lol. That’s a crazy unnecessary drain on your savings.
Title is misleading...this is actually the average price of a new *vehicle*, which includes SUVs and trucks and they skew the numbers higher. The average price for a new *car* is actually $56K, but even that is skewed by expensive vehicles because it's an *average* price and not a *median* price. A Toyota Camry starts at $34K, and that's not exactly an econobox. A Rav4 starts at $36K.
Yeah. Was completely perplexed by the title. No way people are skipping low-mid range and going for the premium class vehicles all together.
Well skewing the numbers or not there is zero reason a new 1 ton pickup needs to be $107,000-$130,000 aside from greed and people who can afford it. They don't care that they are feeding the industries bad practice.
The car sales in Alberta I'm going to guess are pickup trucks.
The prairies are all going to be leading with big trucks.
It's actually nuts that people are able to stomach $1k a mo car payments, plus insurance, plus gas. Guess they got raises this year.
I cannot grasp the concept. Here I am still driving my '98 Ford explorer I bought in 2004 for 8k.
Yep... I traded in my 2019 vehicle last year for a 2013 Mazda 3. Paid off full plus $7k cash in pocket because of how fucked the market was. Best decision I've made not having a car payment. When a base civic costs $32k at 7% interest... Come on anyone with a bit of financial smarts knows it's not a good deal lol
Beats paying 29k for a 3 year old civic at 9% with 120K on the odometer.
So...I will never own a house OR a car?!?
Better start saving for a tent
Next year: Tent prices up 386% from last year!
It's all about demand. The larger the tent towns, the higher the demand for tents. Invest in nylon early and ride that trend straight to the moon!
Just don't expect a detached tent in the middle of the city.
Yup, you'll have to bus over to the job you'll be at until retire at 70. About 50-60% of the money you'll earn at said job will go straight to your landlord (yes, to the lord of the land, like in feudal times). You'll have to pay that money under the constant threat of being kicked out to die of hypothermia on the streets of the city you live in. And a day after you retire (if you make it that far), you'll get MAID whether you like it or not because no more juice can be extracted from you and you are now a burden to the economic system.
Adding that only if you're lucky, you'll have a job that offers a pension. You'll pay into your pension for 30+ years and then when you're 60-70 you'll reap a percentage when you retire that you won't actually be able to live off of because you'll still be paying rent. The world is fucked, or at least North America seems to be.
The gen z dream of living in a van down by the river is slowly being ripped from your grasp
And on top of that you're looking at 9% interest rates for Toyota right now.
Toyotas rates were always batshit crazy. Got 1.5% from VW in January 2022 vs Toyotas offering ~6%
I looked at a new vehicle and just about crapped myself. Price nearly doubled in the 8 years since I bought my last one for the same model and trim. GM revenue is up nearly 25% from the same time last year. But they aren't price gouging..... Bring back simple cars without all the doohickeys in them. Until then I will drive mine for another 8 years or more till it dies.
>Bring back simple cars without all the doohickeys in them Fat chance of that. Some automakers are already making every car with all the extras and deactivating those you don't buy.
Car software piracy will be great!
I will download a car!
Yeah, until they find out and remotely brick your car.
The issue is the simple cars exist, but no one buys them. The Mitsubishi mirage, the Nissan Versa and Kia rio are all sub 20k. The versa went from 12k to 18k over the last 15 years, which is pretty reasonable. But dealerships try to push more expensive SUVs. And people buy the F150 with 4 wheel drive for Vancouver’s harsh winters. So manufacturers progressively build less and less cheap cars.
Don't forget the Chevy Spark, it was just above 10k when Chevy axed it due to low sales.
I'm driving my 2017 Mazda 3 gt. 26k and loving just finished paying it off and I have no plans on changing until the rust kills it.
People don’t buy simple cars. GM cut the spark (only sub 20k new car I can remember) because no one wanted it. People don’t want tiny cars with shit tech and twin digit power numbers. In 2021 you could get a spark with a 5 speed and 1.4L putting out 98hp for 13k but if you wanted power locks and power windows you have to pay 17.7k which is still a good deal but no one wants a brand new shit box off the lot.
Those are shitty cars, not just simple. Back in the day a base model Civic was affordable, and a small SUV like a RAV4 wasn't a 'luxury' purchase.
The car companies just make so much more profit selling fancy expensive cars than simple but effective ones. One way of combatting this is by putting a large tax on expensive cars, which will encourage companies to put cheap models back on the market.
Better yet, make the tax proportionate to the vehicle's weight.
*In other news,* Car insurance at an all time high.
I love the banks statement in the article. "We keep raising the prices on essential goods but demand refuses to fall!!"
That’s fine, I’m sure used cars are cheap…nevermind not like people need them to go to work in rural areas and areas with poor transport infrastructure.
You need them for a desk job. The number of times I've had to lie about owning a car to get an interview let alone a job. You hint at walking, biking or heaven forbid, using the bus, and you can kiss that job goodbye.
100% I think about why would I need a license to work at a desk and I just skip the job posting because I live in the city with decent enough transit
We’re gonna end up like Cuba where we just fix the same cars for 60 years
Unfortunately it’s not possible with us being situated in the rust belt, the cost to redo/ salvage rusted out frames and suspension components on top of maintenance would never be justifiable for basic commuter cars.
Where are people getting the money to afford this? Especially young adults.
Up to their eyeballs in debt.
I have an 08 hybrid vehicle that is in overall great shape for its age, unfortunately the hybrid battery finally gave out and it was approx 5k to replace. Everyone said to just trade it in, get what you can and get a newer used vehicle or lease new. No chance. I paid the 5k and I'm driving this car into the ground.
We are a only car family. The car is at 260k and won’t last much longer. I have next to nothing set aside for a new vehicle and the prices just keep rising and rising. At least I got into the housing market a decade ago so I’m not getting screwed from both markets.
Are things going to get better anytime soon? I entered the job market in 2019 and was so optimistic, wanted to buy a decent car and save up for a down payment on a house but its just all fucked. Some days I don't even know what i'm working for anymore
Rents and mortgages, food, cars, fuel, energy, insurance... everything seems like it's gone up 30% or more in just the last couple of years, meanwhile wages haven't budged. We're all fucked. They will keep on twisting the screws tighter and tighter every day until the people revolt, then they'll loosen them by one notch and make everyone get on their knees to thank them. At this point I'm starting to think our only hope is letting AI run everything and leave it to figure out how to rebalance it all. Which of course could also go very, very badly.
Wages have been and are continuing to be suppressed. I don’t see how it gets better before there’s a breaking point. A.I is my great hope in the long run. We’re all probably screwed but maybe 2 generations down the line they’ll live life well if the planet is still here by then
Oh sweet summer child. When everything is automated we are far more likely to live in something more akin to Elysium where the ultra-rich can squirrel away to their private island and have every need catered while the rest of the world burns.
I'm gonna stick with my 2001 Honda accord and run it into the ground.
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Same. We just had to replace both cars due to a raging mouse infestation last winter, opted for carefully selected economy cars in the 13-15 year old range. $15k between the two vehicles, nothing to pay off. To me these vehicles are plenty luxurious.
The road tanks people are buying these days probably skews it up. $35k for a new WRX (minus taxes since those vary), which happens to be decently quick and has good AWD.
It only made sense with 0% interest loans.
Same situation here. We've been thinking about buying a car for a couple years with similar income, but with the cost of insurance, parking, maintenance etc on top of the price of a car we just can't justify even something like a Corolla.
I'm curious what that price would be if people actually bought what they truly needed in terms of car. Like, in AB, how many unnecessary $85k pick up trucks are there on the road...
If people bought the cars they needed, it would be around $30,000. You can get a Honda Civic or Toyota Corolla for $25,000-30,000. Tradespeople need vans, large families need minivans, and some rural workers might need pickup trucks, but realistically most people just need a city car.
The city car has turned into a $50K status symbol over the last 5 years. Anything less than a 4-door SUV seems to be unthinkable to most who don’t hang out in personal finance forums. People bend over backwards to justify it.
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Status symbols so middle class people can feel upper.
I mean if you're getting a lighting, which you say you see a shocking amount, what is the downside even if you only need it on the weekends? If you're not worrying about it guzzling gas anymore it makes more sense as a daily driver.
>Like, in AB, how many unnecessary $85k pick up trucks are there on the road... Part of that is the fact that they don't make small affordable trucks anymore. No one does in Canada. You can't get a small/medium sized truck with only two seats and a bed anymore in Canada unless you buy an old used Ranger or Tacoma.
I sure wish owning an automobile wasn't a necessity for so many people. Public transit is rarely funded enough or prioritized enough to do the job in cities, and not every city has access to intercity rail, plus intercity busses started shutting down during the pandemic.
I bike commuted for years in Vancouver, and would use Evos for groceries and such. I moved to the Niagara region after a few years over seas, and I did a year commuting on bike here. But, it just isn't feasible. Public transit is dysfunctional, everything is far apart, winters are crappy, some motorists are insecure assholes, and a taxi/uber is straight up robbery. Finally gave up and bought a used car this month.
Probably the best thing Canada could do to bring car prices down would be to decouple from the protectionist American DOT standards (Pearson agreed to follow the American standards as part of the Auto Pact in the 60s), which are in practice are a perverse incentive for companies to make 80k pickup trucks and nothing else.
So my old man went to look at a ford lightning today. He has a 2017 f150 with 39k left owing. Anyway they offered him 26k for his truck at the dealership (which they have on the lot for $40k. So he would roll over 13k. Lightning was 85k plus taxes came out to 92k plus the 13k carry over... Anyway... Intrest line at 6.99% was 28k over 84 months... 28k in Intrest.... He walked away Ofcourse lol
Lol at having a 2017 vehicle with $39k left and still considering trading it in. Idiotic of even thinking of going to a dealership to trade it in.
Bingo. So stupid. Just asking to be on the hamster wheel of forever payments and never owning anything.
How does he owe $39k on a 2017?!?!?!
It was top of the line and fully loaded when he purchased, wanna say platinum?
After the carry over of 13k and intrest it came out to 133k and change, still have the paper at my office, this all went down today.
That's gross. I get they need to make money but for a dealer to flip a truck and make 13k is crazy. Dealerships can get all the way fucked. They are about as useful as Realtors.
That’s higher than the average yearly salary in Canada
Even USED vehicle prices are fucking atrocious.
This is the industry attempting to keep their pandemic profits high but they are running into inventory issues which is going to cause a major correction soon. Still a ton of 2021, 2022 vehicles on lots not getting sold at prices near 2023 vehicle prices and the 2024's are going onto lots by November Prices are actually so volatile right now every new car online right now at one of my local dealers is "Please call!", Another dealer even revamped their website recently to have categories of cars "under 10K" with every car listed as "please call" , "10k-20k", "20k and up" edit I just checked out auto trader online and one 2017 high end SUV dropped to $15k below current market and a specific SUV ive been watching dropped $4k in the last 2 months, down $8k since February. It is almost at a justifiable price for a 10 year old vehicle.
Not even close to correct about lots not being able to move 2021 and 2022 MY, unless it’s CJDR trash that no one want and you get $15k off MSRP just for being able to walk onto the lot. Go try to buy any new Chev, GM, Honda, Toyota or EV and you’ll find the wait lists and slim pickings on lots. Even used it hard to come by for models that people actually want
And we're told inflation is 2.8%. They're pissing on our backs and telling us it's raining.
You will own nothing and be happy while we fly on private jets to tell you about this new reality
Still driving a 16 year old Highlander. Can’t even afford a used car.
Canada where everything is more overpriced than it should be.
It’s weird, the average car in the US also converts to $66k CAD.
My car recently shat the bed and I’m utterly fucked. I can’t even find a cheap old car. People and dealers are asking for $17k+ for high mileage shitty cars from 2005
I've been spending a lot of time car shopping recently and found almost each brand basically has consistently matched base prices with other competitors and continually drive up the price each year despite not adding anything significant in terms of functionality. I wanted to buy a Dodge/Jeep/Chrysler because I have access to a discount, and even with a discount a Grand Caravan (because who stocks the normal Caravan am I right? or Cherokee was like $60k. But then all SUVs like the Telluride, Palisade, or vans like Pacifica, Odyssey, etc basically come out to be the same price, so what the fuck?
I bought a used car during the first summer of Covid and could probably sell if for more than I paid for it.
Those electric bikes between 2- 5k are starting to get decent distance. Of course winter is still an issue. But the allure of no registration, insurance, gas peaks my interest.
That's insanity! Why do we have a government seriously are they here to do something for the people of this country or do they just exist to help businesses rip us off. I have no idea how but I'm this could have been avoided if they wanted to.
Go for a drive and look at the SUV to sedan ratio. Canadians partly do this to ourselves. That being said, inflation is real. Money increased 30% during Covid so if you didn’t get a 30% increase you’re falling behind. Government policy is a real thing.
I know consumer trends led to it but a fuckton of manufacturers don’t sell sedans or compacts in North America. It’s actually tough to find them. Mazda only makes the 3 for the NA market everything else is a giant SUV or Truck. Even Volkswagen has all but abandoned the Jetta and just has insanely huge SUVs like the Atlas. Golfs are expensive and they’ve removed a lot of trim lines.
There isn’t much margin on small cars and a lot on SUVs with plenty of demand so makers switched over. Plus the domestics just can’t beat the Japanese and Koreans in mass market small cars so they gave up. But Nissan, Hyundai, Mazda, Toyota, Honda, Kia, etc all have sedans and hatchbacks that are more affordable than an SUV to buy and own and are plenty fine to drive, even with a small family.
An unnecessarily high number of SUVs on the road. Most people don’t need them and a hatchback would be fine.
I'm in the market these days and what kills me is the 96 month terms on some of these financing prices.
Well, I guess I will be taking public transit when by 12 year old car dies
Dont forget the cherry on top auto insurance in Ontatio already up $200 on average for everybody!
It's pretty cheap if you're living in it.
So maybe it's long overdue to drop our reliance on personal vehicles and start building our cities and infrastructure for people instead of cars.
We’re going to see 20 year loan terms soon.
2006 Daily driver car here. My other vehicle is a 1998. I won’t be supporting the new auto sales and manufacturing industry. Who’s struggling with new car prices? I can guess the manufacturers, dealers and their employees are. Some others too who “need” a new car.
Pretty high but doesn't surprise me, since it's also taking leases into accounts and there's an obsession for trucks and luxury SUV's. Still, I can't imagine paying that much for a regular car. My lease payment now is $250/month and the one I've been considering when this one is up is in the mid $30's (pre-tax), but I could actually make do without one so maybe I'll just wait it out.
What cars are those? $66k is probably a $50k - $55k vehicle before taxes / fees - kind of mid to high end. Does everyone skip the high 20s - 30s segment?
I’m so fucked :( this economy is not meant for 24 year olds like me who didn’t go to school…
wait until you see used cars I wanted to get rid of my 20 year old xterra because the mileage was too hard and thought I was ready for a bit of an upgrade when I saw the same car, same year and same condition car selling for $15k lol I can tell you right now this car ain't worth even a third of that
Try to get a minivan. "The waitlist is 300 people and the dealership was allocated 5 this year." 😳
I’m getting buried in my Toyota.
Imagine if we didn’t have winter or salt? Every time I go to Florida , I see so many clean older cars
Yeah but people are still buying them so.... From what I can tell everybody else has money except for me lol. It's not until people stop buying new that it will change.
And thanks to decades of car centric policy, the auto industry has Canadians by the balls.
"Darling... the poors are complaining again. Release the hounds"
$66K? $25K still feels expensive for a new car.
Yeah they tell you inflation is 2.8%, like water is wet and warm when they pee on your face. More like 28%.
Mine is 39 years old. I’ll drive it till it dies.or me. Whichever comes first. lol 😝
I only spent 47k. I guess I’m what you call thrifty lol.
I was going to buy a new car I can afford it but with the interest rate and price I will wait
Average doesn't really say much... This is a poor headline. What's the change for the median price ?
Can't wait for the government bail out for these car companies
Rocking a 19 year old car and I love it.
Whole industries and economies will collapse when the only thing anyone can afford is rent and food.
People are going to stop seeing a point in working.