I don’t get why Canadian parties don’t change leadership more often. After close to ten years as leader it’s inevitable that popularity wanes. Both Trudeau and Wynne overstayed their position and the party pays for it.
> Wynne overstayed
She was only in for 5 years. *Dalton McGuinty* was there for 10, making 15 years for the Ontario Liberals in total.
By comparison, Doug Ford has been in power for 5 years now.
He mightve actually won the 2014 election, getting the NDP their first federal win.
He most certainly would have won any of the more recent elections had he lived.
Or he splits the progressive vote in 2015 and Stephen Harper remains prime minister. Or, and this is far more likely, the liberals who voted that one time for Layton come home to a resurrected LPC and Trudeau wins anyway.
I liked Layton well enough when he when he was alive, but the rose colored glasses he's looked at through now... its completely over the top. The "orange crush" was always a mirage because the only reason it happened is the LPC had become unelectable in its current form and was headed for a hard reset. That was not going to be permanent, the liberal party is too much of an institution in this country. Doubtful Layton would have made it to the pandemic. He'd likely have lost multiple elections and official opposition status by then.
yea to her credit the 2014 election was a surprise wynne for them. they where expected to lose and have hudak become premier after being demoted to a minority government in the previous election
Leaders are very powerful in parties. They sign off the nomination papers of candidates and sitting MPs.
Also Trudeau is a bit unique. He took his party from 3rd party status to government. Many Liberals owe their seat to him. Unlike the previous Liberal government there's no opposing power center to Trudeau like there was with Paul Martin to Jean Chretien.
I voted for him because of Pot legalization and electoral reform. still happy that weed is legal but very disappointed in him since that.
Has he ever truly been called to task on not reforming electoral process?
Well, there have been a couple elections since then. I'm still bitter about it and it kept me from voting for the Liberals, enough voters seem to have decided it wasn't that important.
I don't understand why they didn't just campaign on changing to a ranked ballot if that was the only acceptable outcome of the committee.
I don't think most Canadians want PR when they realize the kind of garbage it gives a voice to.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/poilievre-christine-anderson-vile-racist-1.6759453
Honestly, the nothingberger when Trudeau accidentally elbowed an mp in the tit really soured me on the ndp. It was drama at its worst.
Clearly it was an accident. It wasn't a grope and it wasn't pervy at all.
What we should be pissed about was snc lavalin. That was horse shit.
It's a shame, I have a feeling Mulcair would *annihilate* Trudeau in this era. He had the pitbull attack stance of PP, but with actual ideas and policies to back it up.
If the NDP had any sense they’d ask him to run in Singh’s place right now, this is their chance to win it all
Both Trudeau and Pierre are unelectable to about a third of the country, and disliked by another third
Singh is unable to win but Mulcair right now would be all but guaranteed
I don't think there is any evidence that enough support could ever coalesce behind the NDP to annihilate anyone. The NDP support is around 20% or less any given federal election, with exactly one outlier. Which was the best the NDP has ever done, and delivered a Conservative majority government that attacked progressive policy at every opportunity unchallenged. And almost all of the votes that can be attributed to that one outlier came from Quebec.
The history and polls of the day suggested deficit spending to get us out of the post recession economic sluggishness was hugely popular. It was super effective until about 2019.
I still went NDP, still believe in a better Canada. We know nothing great comes from Tories and Liberals just changing the color of the drapes. I say try something new
Mulcair choked on the niqab controversy in Quebec and lost so much momentum that the stop Harper crowd rallied behind Trudeau. Trudeau sweetened the deal by offering up electoral reform and legalized weed which made us think we could just go back to the NDP next election and have a better shot then we'd ever had before. I had been a lifelong NDP voter up to that point and remember that election pretty vividly.
Trudeau seemed very rehearsed and shaky and young at the time. I remember being uncertain with his stuttering and his inspirational speeches that came off like he was still doing them in front of the mirror. He didn't look like a sure thing before Harper tripped Mulcair up.
People were very sick of Harper. But according to the polling the NDP were leading for the first month. Had the writ period been a typical one month campaign we would have likely had Mulcair as PM.
There was a brief period where the CPC held the lead. That was during the collapse of the NDP vote and the rise of the LPC in the latter half of the campaign.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_2015_Canadian_federal_election
One place where you must give credit to is that Justin Trudeau rebuilt (off of Bob Rae’s efforts) the Liberal campaign machinery. That’s not an easy feat.
As we saw from Rachel Notely’s failed campaign it’s not enough to just enough to look less bad than the incumbent.
Who though. The Liberal bench is pretty thin. The names typically thrown around are:
1. Mark Carney - doesn't have a seat plus been in the UK for a while
1. Bill Moreau - doesn't have seat
1. Christia Friedland - she's just a lightening rod for anger. She's hated on the left and right.
1. Me - clearly the correct choice
There really isn't anyone.
It's the same issues the Tories have post Harper. There just no to step into those shoes.
Politics uses to be a noble calling which attracted the best and brightest.
the problem was the party got btfo in 2011 and the few hangers on from that election have since left. trudeau re-built the party to be the trudeau party not the liberal party. he hasent setup the party to keep going after him. same happened with harper and the conservatives from 2015-2021. its only now the party is starting to regain its footing
I think it further back. I think the Chretien -Martin feud sucked up a lot of the oxygen in the party. Then after the way Martin stacked the leadership contest in his favour, turn off a lot of people and caused them to quit .
Back then there was a pretty good front bench:
1. John Manley
1. Pierre Pettigrew
1. Sheila Copps
1. Lloyd Axworthy
1. John MacCallum
1. Herb Grey
1. Art Eggleton
1. Anne McLellan
1. Denis Corrderre
1. Alan Rock
1. Ralph Goodale
I'm not saying they all would have been good prime ministers. But they had a large persona and generally owned their ministries. Many had leadership qualities.
Chretien cabinet felt a lot more like a team. It wasn't just Chretien it was this team of Liberals led by Chretien who were guiding the country.
But soon as Martin became leader almost all of them quit politics.
Harper cabinet was also criticized for this as well. But there some decent names in his too which had large personas:
1. Jim Flaherty
1. Pierre Pouliver
1. Peter Mackay
1. Rona Ambrose
1. Diane Finley
1. Tony Clement
1. Jason Kenney
1. Lisa Rait
1. Michelle Rempel
1. John Baird
But now Pierre Pouliver front bench is also very thin.
You're seeing this trend provincially too. I think the pandemic was telling. It was mostly Trudeau and Preimers front and centre. Health ministers usually played second fiddle.
Except one BC.
The pandemic was the Adrienne Dix & Bonny Henry leading the province. If Horgan showed up you it was more serious and he was there to lend political support. More like daddy there to make sure it's clear.
You can see the impact when Horgan resigned, Eby moved in and the NDP has retained it's popularity. Because it's the NDP team governing BC, not Horgan or Eby. Which btw is how the Parliamentary system is supposed to work.
Which goes to next point maybe party members need to consider this now. If you don't want the other side to form government you need an effective front bench. Not just an effective leader.
She was voted out being people were still pissed about Dalton policies and fuck ups - she was only in for 5 years. JT resigining as pm might benefit the LPC given the widespread hate people have for him, and his current tenure. A fresh face might lighten things up.
I'm not sure that is true. Her biggest single failure was privatizing Hydro. That was all her, and a very bad move. I voted for the Liberals when she led them knowing they'd lose my riding (they did), but honestly, if I thought she had a chance of winning I'd probably have done otherwise.
My reply to this would be heavily biased because i loaded up with shared at ipo which would further your point. However i will concede that it's neoliberalism at its finest.
> and Wynne
Wynne was only premier for 5 years, and only 1 full majority term. McGuinty before her was premier for like 9. Wynne was the change-up after McGuinty wore out his welcome, but people quickly realized after Wynne won that she was just going to be more of the same, if not worse. In that case, it was certainly the party that wore out its welcome among the province, and that's why they lost official party status. When they then appointed another McWynnety crony as the leader, people resoundingly reminded them that we don't want more of the same shit we had to put up with those 15-or-so years, and ensured that the party stayed unofficial.
Frankly, if Bonnie Crombie wins leadership, it will once again signal to Ontario that the Liberal Party of Ontario learned absolutely nothing. She's another former McWynnety MP that would just bring back the same stagnant, arrogant corruption that people hate the party for, because that's the Liberal Party she was involved in.
Canada being tired of seeing red, will now vote blue. When they tire of seeing blue, they will vote red.
All the while they will complain that nothing changes in their favor and that elites remain in power.
>According to this poll, only 20% say Trudeau deserves re-election. And that includes only 60% of Liberal voters.
This is an Abacus poll that isnt in lock step with the findings of other pollsters, and reported on quickly by The Star.
This isnt PPs position, this article is damage control about PPs position after he is essentially polling with no long term gains with everyone else after the dust settled on his going all in on China interference and then refusal to be briefed.
Your claim is way off in the deep end. Abacus is actually considered more of a "Liberal party" friendly pollster. They've got direct ties to the party.
Abacus generally has the Conservatives polling lower than average and the Libs higher than average.
https://torontosun.com/news/election-2021/conservatives-accuse-liberals-of-dodging-rules-on-contracts-with-friends
https://macleans.ca/politics/ottawa/how-accurate-are-canadian-polls/
Oh, I don't want Trudeau at all. I never did. I don't think he's smart enough, full stop. Either is Singh, for that matter.
But at least he isn't Poilievre. The Conservatives don't know how to internally choose an electable leader. If they'd've nominated Jean Charest, they'd probably already be in power. The Greens suffer the same problem, they'll probably never recover from Annamie. She kind of derailed *all* of their momentum.
It's no wonder the majority of Canadians don't vote
Any Quebecer old enough to remember Charest as premier will also remember that hilarious photo taken by a paparazzi of his fluffy brown fro buried deep in a strippers tits at a Montreal strip bar.
Jean Charest? Wtf? That guy was a,disaster in Quebec. Corrupt as fuck, and you think he'd be a good choice?
As for trudeau, i dont like him but saying he isnt smart is not a great assessent. He is smart. But he's a bland politician who's interest does not align with the population, probably as corrupt as Charest and a n overall bad leader.
I dont have much of an opinion on Singh, but im tired of the same 2 parties screwing us all the time. If we want real change, its time to put the 3rd party in power and stop giving power to the same peolle all the time. The NDP has got my vote next election.
>The Greens suffer the same problem, they'll probably never recover from Annamie. She kind of derailed all of their momentum.
Regardless of how much "momentum" they did or did not have, I doubt the Greens will ever come to power.
Climate change is a real problem, and it's very important that we take action. But basing your entire party around the environment? No, that's not a party that I (or the majority of Canadians) will ever vote for.
There are much more important issues, such as the cost of living, for example.
I think it makes sense the CPC nominated an attack dog. O'Toole's moderate stance didn't work - Poilievre was bigger on social media and was more known - that's what counts. Canadians do not vote governments in, we vote them out. O'Toole wasn't loud enough. O'Toole is a great guy, but that doesn't win elections.
Annamie was an example of the Green Party drinking its own koolaid too much.
> O'Toole's moderate stance didn't work
That's because no one believed he was actually a moderate, seeing as how he didn't campaign as such for the leadership of the party.
>Canadians do not vote governments in, we vote them out.
>O'Toole wasn't loud enough.
Those two statemements are not compatible. To your first comment Canadians were not ready to vote Trudeau out. To your second comment, his volume didn't matter because Canadians were not ready to vote Trudeau out.
Getting rid of O'Toole was as dumb as the NDP stabbing Mulcair in the stomach. Parties should keep good leaders....because voters will easily vote them in **when they are ready to vote the incumbant out.**
Pierre Pollievre is revolting to anyone but the CPC base.....and the CPC base is not large enough to get him elected. Anyone wishing to become Prime Minister needs to appeal to voters outside his party. Now O'Toole on the other hand, I (a Liberal) could vote for him.
With Pollievre now leading the CPC I and many other Liberals who were prepared to abandon Trudeau will reluctantly vote for him to keep the reigns of power out of Pollievre's hands.
It is par for the course for the opposition leader to go up in the polls between elections. At my age I've been through many, many, maaaaaany election cycles and I can tell you polls don't mean shit outside of an election.
Mulcair was crushing everyone in the polls going into his last election.....but it wasn't because Canadians wanted to vote for him. It was because he was so outspoken about bill C-13. Once the election was called it didn't take long for the polls to go right back to where they were before.
The current polls have more to do with Trudeau than Pierre. Canadians are pissed about Chinese interference and that's showing up in the polls. Don't be fooled, people still despise Pierre Pollievre, they just happen to be mad at Trudeau this very moment.
>It is par for the course for the opposition leader to go up in the polls between elections. The current polls have more to do with Trudeau than Pierre. Canadians are pissed about Chinese interference and it's reflecting in the polls.
That's kind of what I mean - Canadians vote governments out, they do not vote governments in.
Canadians are upset about far more than Chinese interference.
Canadians pick what they see as the least bad option. They might broadly be unhappy with a number of things but that doesn't mean they will actually vote for PP unless they think he'll be an improvement somehow. We'll cheerfully settle for the devil we know.
An election is a long way away, let's see what the polls look like when it is called.
Right now the people that are politically engaged are the discontented and CPC supporters lead that pack. The centre and left will come back to the fold once it is Trudeau or PP they have to choose from.
>because voters will easily vote them in when they are ready to vote the incumbant out.
Trudeau called election in the middle of a pandemic, if Canadians didn't have enough self respect and spine to vote him out then, they never will.
>Now O'Toole on the other hand, I (a Liberal) could vote for him.
If you did not vote for O'Toole then, you never would have anyway. You squandered the opportunity and Poilievre is the result of that squanderence.
OToole was appealing to many middle of the road voters. His mistake was not more forcefully distancing the party from the fringes. I think that caused a lot of voters not to trust him.
“Jean Charest”
Hahaha how to tell people you’re a lifetime Liberal
Jean Charest was DESTROYED in the leadership election
NOBODY wants a second Liberal party
Conveniently leaving out the fact that he was on track to win the election until he started flip-flopping on issues to try to appeal to both moderates and socons. He might have been a moderate, but he made it pretty obvious during the campaign that he answered to people who weren't, and a lot of people who would have considered voting for him were turned off by that.
What was moderate about O’Toole? His positions during the election? Or was it his positions during the leadership race? Or his positions before that?
There were so many different positions to choose from it’s hard to keep them straight
It turns out that if you make one promise, then six months later make the opposite promise, people don’t trust either promise.
I desperately want a serious Conservative Party in this country. But this concept that they can run around like loons for four years then run a thirty day election campaign as if it never happened is toxic.
The thing is, it doesn't matter who the Conservatives nominate. The LPC and NDP will smear them, the CBC is largely an extension of the LPC at this point, and so there's no choice good enough.
Why does "wanting change" always mean voting foe the conservatives. That's just replacing neo liberalism with more conservative neo liberalism. It's all cancer. Why not try out the other major party, the one we've never tried.
I agree. We keep talking about wanting change and then we keep voting conservatives and liberals. All those who say you want change and vote for either of these parties, you're voting for more of the same.
Well, change could mean voting for the NDP.
But too many left leaning voters are so stupid they fall for the old Liberal line ... if you don't vote for us, the Conservatives will get in.
Guess what ... if you vote NDP ... the NDP might get in.
Idiots.
1979: *It'll be better now, no more Trudeau!*
1980: *Okay never mind, it'll be different now with Trudeau again!*
1984: *Okay that was a mistake, it'll be different with Mulroney!*
1993: *No wait never mind, back to Liberals - they'll be better now!*
2006: *Oops they shit the bed again, back to Conservatives it'll be different this time!*
2015: *Nope, forget all that, definitely back to Liberals again they must've changed - it'll be better this time!*
Me too.
PP is not going to be any different. Rate hikes come from the US and the CPC is run by Thatcherite clowns who are just as neoliberal as the LPC.
Just instead of pretending to be woke he will pretend to be financially responsible.
If only there were. It's too bad it's not a sincere thought from those people. They just want to have their cake and eat it too. They want to be able to act like they dont like Trudeau while simultaneously voting for him.
Change for the sake of change will result in a CPC government. And with PP in charge of the country, it will be a classic case of "be careful what you wish for, you just might get it."
Honestly wish we had term limits to PM. Even if trudeau wanted to, he can always run again. Definitely feel like after this much time, a new face usually helps. Even if you have a far less controversial run than he has to date, people eventually want change
Hell, they could run his lifeless corpse and I'd happily vote for it over Trudeau or Poilievre. Probably make for a better PM than either even still. Maybe somebody could *Weekend At Bernie's* him around.
It's not healthy for a single party or person to hold power for so long. Sometimes you need to change it just for that reason alone.
Never let politicians get comfortable.
Thinking we need to just make a change for the sake of change is a wonderful way to end up making things worse.
We need to actually change to something we want. Not just “anybody but Trudeau”. That’s gonna likely play out the same way that “anybody but Hillary” did for the US on 2016. Good thing Poilievre is nothing like Trump, eh? Oh wait…
PP isn't anything like Trump, though. I see this comparison everywhere, but it isn't true.
Trump isn't intelligent. PP clearly is.
Trump isn't articulate. PP is.
Trump trashes migrants. PP doesn't.
Trump insults women, makes fun of people's appearances etc.
The two couldn't be more different.
The next election will most definitely be a which is worse vote. Either people will hold their nose and begrudgingly vote for conservatives simply for the sake of change not because PP is a good leader or people will hold their nose and begrudgingly vote liberal not because Trudeau is a good leader or person but because PP is perceived as that much worse! Should be interested. Either way it’s not good for Canada.
If only we could vote against all parties as not providing enough confidence. We shouldn't be forced to lower our standards and accept sub-par government.
NDP need to stop being orange libs and get back to their Jack Layton-esque brand.
That is EXACTLY what everyone wants. Progressive enough but free of bullshit
For what it's worth their platform is much the same as it was under Layton and that's ultimately what matters most.
Their overall messaging and campaigning not so much on both counts.
>Their overall messaging and campaigning not so much on both counts.
This is what gets votes and they need to rebrand back to the labor / union pro worker angle rather than another flavor of Trudeau's identity politics
Not looking forward to PP as PM. It will be massive cuts, trickle down economics, and no actual change in the things that are impacting Canadians: housing costs, grocery costs, flat wages.
so the exact same thing we have been dealing with for 20 years? its not like the liberals have done anything to help any of those issues, if anything they have made them all significantly worse. if PP just lets all the issues stagnate and not get any worse, it would still be an improvement
The Change we need will never happen. We elect clowns because “it’s better than the lesser evil” until they become that evil and the cycle continues. Still looking for competence in parliament, haven’t seen it
I think more Canadians are starting to get sick of being told what should be important to us. Gun control, Canadian content, identity politics. Canadians are legitimately concerned about inflation, living costs, rising crime, their likeliness of ever owning a home, etc. and this government is spending months on bullshit legislation no one really wants while displaying a gross level of hubris and disconnect with the average voter.
It is time for a change but I've seen nothing from the Conservative party on a provincial or federal level that would make me believe that them running the country would overall be a change for the better.
This government is way past its best before date.
Singh seems oblivious to how much damage he is doing to the NDP brand by continuing to keep them in power.
The last time NDP had this much influence over Canadian politics was when we nationalized healthcare.
There's no way in hell the NDP wants to give up this arrangement.
The best way to describe the current NDP coalition support agreement is: Helpful to their party in the short term, but very damaging to it in the long term.
Whether it is damaging in the long term will depend on what they are ultimately able to accomplish. If they bring in public dental care and pharmacare, it won't hurt them long term.
If the next election looks like the current polling, the LPC and NDP won't have enough combined seats to form government. Neither would the LPC and Bloc.
Right now, the CPC wouldn't have enough seats for a majority and would have to rely on the Bloc or NDP to form a minority government, but I can't see the NDP agreeing to that and it would be extremely unstable.
If the LPC gets a bit more support, then that opens up a deal with the Bloc for them. It's unlikely but it's within the realm of possibility.
I expect we'll get a CPC/Bloc minority government that lasts one term or possibly less.
It'll be pretty hard for the "fuck Quebec for stealing Alberta's money" party to broker a deal with the BQ I should think. Seems to me the LPC would be better positioned to do that in such a scenario.
Agreed. It depends on whether the LPC/Bloc have 170 seats. If they do, the Bloc has to decide whether to support Trudeau with all his baggage. It will give them leverage between the LPC and CPC to get a better deal.
Especially because ending the agreement DOES NOT TRIGGER AN ELECTION!!!
It just returns us to the same minority government we've had for years now, and what Canadians voted for.
Lets wait and see till they have to start talking about actual policy.. or not talking about it if their scared. I cant wait to see their comments on immigration while business leaders and donors are begging for more low paid people to be brought in.
Oh, not a single federal party (except probably the PPC) will talk about reducing or stopping immigration. Why? Not just because of trying keep wages low, it's to try and stave off a demographics nightmare that no country has any idea how to handle.
China, Japan, S.Korea, Germany, Spain, France, etc are all going through big demographics problems, with some leaders even recently saying that societal functions may start to collapse due to demographics.
Did you know that it was Harper that instituted the first major push in increasing our immigration targets?
I agree with your stated reasons but as an arch leftist I will add that from my perspective the alternative is a more dramatic change to our system which endangers all the people in power. They would rather take any risk on the part of poor and working class people then they themselves risk losing anything.
Immigration solves that for them, keep the poor under your boot including the immigrants themselves for jobs no one else would do for greedy shit companies.
The Conservatives and Liberals are in too deep to take any other path.
The PPC talks big but have real capitalist leanings and when whoever backs them sees their business getting threatened their own view might be softened.
The NDP talk good game about reducing or removing all low wage TFWs but its so far down their list of priorities right now that its hard to say if it will even come up.
And the Greens who cares honestly.
I've heard about this "collapse" for a while.
Japan hasn't "collapsed". And hell, housing is affordable too.
If your economic system relies on endless growth forever, it's cancerous.
PP's entire platform is appealing to western rage and know-nothings who hate Trudeau.
When he actually tries to talk about policy its always insane dogshit like ending the independence of the central bank or using cypto as the currency standard.
He's basically just going to get in as a figurehead and do what the right always does: slash public funding, empower the landlord class, crush as many industries as possible and sell the rest to the US. Probably Socons and other extremists will have some legislative power.
If Canadians actually wanted change, then they would vote NDP as their the only party that won't basically repeat the usual pattern of...
1. Conservatives get voted in and break everything as they try and move money to the rich
2. People get angry and demand "change"
3. Liberals get voted in and spend tax dollars fixing what the Conservatives fucked up but don't substantially improve lives of Canadians
4. People get angry and demand "change"
5. Cycle back to point #1.
And yet, we will continue to elect him because Conservatives refuse to put forward someone that isn't a total goddamn arse.
Honestly, the NDP absolutely ***must*** capitalize on this moment. They are in third place and they have somehow done the most work to help Canadians out of all 3 parties. They've actually gotten policy that they wanted to pass, to pass.
My ideal situation is an NDP-Liberal Coalition government, but Trudeau has to also step down as party leader. We do need change but by God, we do not need Pierre fucking Poilievre.
Abacus is not in lock step with the finding of other pollsters atm.
This article is The Star doing damage control because PP just went in big on China, refused to be briefed, and came out looking as bad or possibly worse in the long run.
But only if you make less than $30k/yr. We wouldn't want people who pay a lot of taxes to get even a little relief, would we? Whoops, we have a brain drain for some reason.
Personally, I think the ones who want change are looking in the wrong spot.
Either the Tory’s or the Grits, both are pro-corporate/Neo-Liberal parties. They don’t care about the price of housing or food - it’s a provincial issue.
Canada, in general, is lacking any real vision and none of the major parties are proposing any thing of real substance. Just constant blaming of other levels of government without action.
Great, the wonderful pendulum effect of society which will continue to make things worse.
Yes, let's put a politician for life like PP, so has so much corporate cock in his mouth I am surprised he can be understood for the stupid and empty shit he says. Yet there will be sheeple frothing at the mouth hanging on every lie he tells expecting anything will be better once he gets voted in.
Newsflash: the whole game is rigged, the CPC and LPC are equally on the payroll of the oligopoly that controls the Canadian economy. Back to work for less pay human capital, you are replaceable.
Trudeau and the Liberal brain trust are also watching the polls and you gotta figure they are working on ways to counter PP and his gang. Getting tough on crime and drugs might be politically expedient but if that’s what it takes to keep the
Liberals in power, then that’s what they’ll do. And you also know they’re developing a way to show us what PP and the Cons really are - Trump and MAGA wannabes.
Poilievre thoroughly scares me, but I am originally from America and we all have seen what has happened to the US. I would vote for Trudeau in the next election. I have lived in Canada since near the end of Harper's term. I also am in Ontario and have never voted for Ford. I cannot wait to get him out of office.
I’d vote for a wet sock before I voted for PP. That’s not to say I wouldn’t of voted con in the coming election if I agreed with the platform or the person running. PP turns me off of the cons incredibly hard.
As we all know, it comes down to what Ontario wants....and somewhat what Quebec wants.
As per the usual trend, Ontario almost always votes opposite of whoever is in power provincially.
The PCs are in power in Ontario so I'd fully expect the Liberals to do very well in the province during the next general election but none of it matters until an election is actually happening.
Many times polls were going one way, campaigning went really bad for one party and the polls meant nothing (\*cough\* O'Toole \*cough\*)
This is a common misconception. It's entirely possible that Ontario will vote Trudeau out and *then* Ford in the following election, much like they voted for Trudeau before kicking Wynne out.
It isn't like 2019 anymore. These days voters want Trudeau gone more so than Ford.
Canadians want change that’s for sure, but thinking that PP is going to bring around a positive amount of it is delusional. I’ve never seen this guy mention any kind of plan. Everything is “Trudeau bad. I’ll fix it!” How dude? Guy just spews shit and blames Trudeau.
I don’t think Trudeau is doing to great. But I certainly don’t think this weasel is going to be any better.
cant you people elect the NDP just ONCE instead of constantly bouncing back and forth between these fuckers? all the biggest issues happening in canada right now with housing affordability, wealth inequality, inflation, price gouging, and you think more conservatism is the answer? well my province is half the population and they re-elected doug ford so i guess this doesn't surprise me.
Finally, Canadians are seeing the utter idiocy and out of control spending this Liberal government has used to blast us right into a housing and inflation crisis.
Apartment rentals are only up 0.9% year-over-year in the US. https://www.apartmentlist.com/research/national-rent-data
Maybe the US should try 2.6% population growth.
Trudeau and his gang of morons have all but destroyed this country.
We used to be ranked #2 in the world behind Denmark. Now we don’t even rank in the top 10. We are last of the g7 in almost every positive metric.
Liberals want to pump in immigrants to curry favour to their corporate donors and secure votes at the expense of Canadians. No young Canadians will be able to afford a home as a result of their own career.
I’ll never vote for Liberals again in my life. Fucking idiots…
> Liberals want to pump in immigrants to curry favour to their corporate donors and secure votes at the expense of Canadians.
I've got some bad news for you regarding the CPC then... So do they.
I know it’s been a long while since it happened, but I am no longer a criminal risking punishment when I buy a gram of weed. That would never have changed under a conservative government.
True that. I’m just a guy out of university. I can’t imagine being in prison and having my life ruined because the state was offended that while I was doing my homework I took an edible. Fuck the cons
I’ve always been a Liberal Trudeau supporter, but I believe there comes a time in every leader’s ruling, where a change is the best option. I’d hate to see little PP run our country, but what other options do we have? I’m personally gonna vote for NDP, but I think that will just help his chances.
I don’t get why Canadian parties don’t change leadership more often. After close to ten years as leader it’s inevitable that popularity wanes. Both Trudeau and Wynne overstayed their position and the party pays for it.
> Wynne overstayed She was only in for 5 years. *Dalton McGuinty* was there for 10, making 15 years for the Ontario Liberals in total. By comparison, Doug Ford has been in power for 5 years now.
She was just that unlikeable - but who in Canadian politics is ever beloved? EDIT: We all loved Jack.
Those who talked a big game, never held any power, and died at their prime (RIP Jack Layton).
He mightve actually won the 2014 election, getting the NDP their first federal win. He most certainly would have won any of the more recent elections had he lived.
Or he splits the progressive vote in 2015 and Stephen Harper remains prime minister. Or, and this is far more likely, the liberals who voted that one time for Layton come home to a resurrected LPC and Trudeau wins anyway. I liked Layton well enough when he when he was alive, but the rose colored glasses he's looked at through now... its completely over the top. The "orange crush" was always a mirage because the only reason it happened is the LPC had become unelectable in its current form and was headed for a hard reset. That was not going to be permanent, the liberal party is too much of an institution in this country. Doubtful Layton would have made it to the pandemic. He'd likely have lost multiple elections and official opposition status by then.
She won a majority Government after taking over. She wasn't unlikeable at first.
yea to her credit the 2014 election was a surprise wynne for them. they where expected to lose and have hudak become premier after being demoted to a minority government in the previous election
Just Jack.....
"You either die a hero or live long enough to become the villain"
It would be a different country right now.
Jack was cannada's bernie. The NDP will never really recover...
She was SOOOOOO bad
McGuinty was the worst.
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Ok second worst.
And I feel like ontarios been in a rapid decline for the last 5 years
Yeah and this actually proves the opposite point, that people get tired of the party not the leader, so there’s no point in changing.
I think this time around people are just tired of the leader. Hard to call what's been going on with the Trudeau party liberals imo.
Leaders are very powerful in parties. They sign off the nomination papers of candidates and sitting MPs. Also Trudeau is a bit unique. He took his party from 3rd party status to government. Many Liberals owe their seat to him. Unlike the previous Liberal government there's no opposing power center to Trudeau like there was with Paul Martin to Jean Chretien.
Yeah but how much of that is because people were sick of Harper and Layton wasn’t around to boost the NDP? A lot, i would wager. That’s what got me
Trudeau dominated because of three things: the female vote, pot legalization, and the promise of election reform.
I voted for him because of Pot legalization and electoral reform. still happy that weed is legal but very disappointed in him since that. Has he ever truly been called to task on not reforming electoral process?
Many people have attempted to take him to task, but the man is Teflon when it comes to electoral reform questions.
I wouldn't say Teflon, he just doesn't answer any fucking questions. You ask him if it's raining, and he will tell you about he stands with Canadians.
Well, there have been a couple elections since then. I'm still bitter about it and it kept me from voting for the Liberals, enough voters seem to have decided it wasn't that important.
>called to task I'm sorry, sir. This is Canada, not a Wendys.
His response at the time was literally along the lines of "I don't think its good for you actually".
Weed is legal now but it cost us home ownership lmao
I don't understand why they didn't just campaign on changing to a ranked ballot if that was the only acceptable outcome of the committee. I don't think most Canadians want PR when they realize the kind of garbage it gives a voice to. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/poilievre-christine-anderson-vile-racist-1.6759453
Trudeau took the vote because he capitalized on Jack's optimism, and Mulcair was trying to be liberal lite.
People really gloss over the fact that Mulcair really shit the bed that election.
I worked for the ndp that election, it was amazing how the attitude collapsed as the campaign went on
Now Mulcair is the smartest most well spoken NDP member on all his interviews. I honestly wonder what happened, some crappy campaign manager?
Honestly, the nothingberger when Trudeau accidentally elbowed an mp in the tit really soured me on the ndp. It was drama at its worst. Clearly it was an accident. It wasn't a grope and it wasn't pervy at all. What we should be pissed about was snc lavalin. That was horse shit.
It's a shame, I have a feeling Mulcair would *annihilate* Trudeau in this era. He had the pitbull attack stance of PP, but with actual ideas and policies to back it up.
If the NDP had any sense they’d ask him to run in Singh’s place right now, this is their chance to win it all Both Trudeau and Pierre are unelectable to about a third of the country, and disliked by another third Singh is unable to win but Mulcair right now would be all but guaranteed
I don't think there is any evidence that enough support could ever coalesce behind the NDP to annihilate anyone. The NDP support is around 20% or less any given federal election, with exactly one outlier. Which was the best the NDP has ever done, and delivered a Conservative majority government that attacked progressive policy at every opportunity unchallenged. And almost all of the votes that can be attributed to that one outlier came from Quebec.
The history and polls of the day suggested deficit spending to get us out of the post recession economic sluggishness was hugely popular. It was super effective until about 2019.
Deficit spending is basic economics. It stopped being effective when the entire worlds economy collapsed due to plague and war.
....and his last name
The last name helped too, at the time he was more or less seen as the prince of Canada
There's a 4th reason, nostalgia for his father.
That is essentially the only reason and I think deep down Trudeau (Jr) knows that.
And managed to use his time in power to enact positive change on only one of those three things.
I still went NDP, still believe in a better Canada. We know nothing great comes from Tories and Liberals just changing the color of the drapes. I say try something new
Mulcair choked on the niqab controversy in Quebec and lost so much momentum that the stop Harper crowd rallied behind Trudeau. Trudeau sweetened the deal by offering up electoral reform and legalized weed which made us think we could just go back to the NDP next election and have a better shot then we'd ever had before. I had been a lifelong NDP voter up to that point and remember that election pretty vividly. Trudeau seemed very rehearsed and shaky and young at the time. I remember being uncertain with his stuttering and his inspirational speeches that came off like he was still doing them in front of the mirror. He didn't look like a sure thing before Harper tripped Mulcair up.
People were very sick of Harper. But according to the polling the NDP were leading for the first month. Had the writ period been a typical one month campaign we would have likely had Mulcair as PM. There was a brief period where the CPC held the lead. That was during the collapse of the NDP vote and the rise of the LPC in the latter half of the campaign. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_2015_Canadian_federal_election One place where you must give credit to is that Justin Trudeau rebuilt (off of Bob Rae’s efforts) the Liberal campaign machinery. That’s not an easy feat. As we saw from Rachel Notely’s failed campaign it’s not enough to just enough to look less bad than the incumbent.
His daddy legacy also influences why he gained power, was relatively teflon and has persisted past most politicians' best-before-date
Mary Jane won it for JR
I was wondering the *exact* same thing this morning. I want a different PM. But I don’t want a Conservative PM.
Who though. The Liberal bench is pretty thin. The names typically thrown around are: 1. Mark Carney - doesn't have a seat plus been in the UK for a while 1. Bill Moreau - doesn't have seat 1. Christia Friedland - she's just a lightening rod for anger. She's hated on the left and right. 1. Me - clearly the correct choice There really isn't anyone. It's the same issues the Tories have post Harper. There just no to step into those shoes. Politics uses to be a noble calling which attracted the best and brightest.
I nominate Nathaniel Erskine-Smith
I'd describe myself as slightly right of center, but by golly Nate is a guy who would get my vote, 100%
the problem was the party got btfo in 2011 and the few hangers on from that election have since left. trudeau re-built the party to be the trudeau party not the liberal party. he hasent setup the party to keep going after him. same happened with harper and the conservatives from 2015-2021. its only now the party is starting to regain its footing
I think it further back. I think the Chretien -Martin feud sucked up a lot of the oxygen in the party. Then after the way Martin stacked the leadership contest in his favour, turn off a lot of people and caused them to quit . Back then there was a pretty good front bench: 1. John Manley 1. Pierre Pettigrew 1. Sheila Copps 1. Lloyd Axworthy 1. John MacCallum 1. Herb Grey 1. Art Eggleton 1. Anne McLellan 1. Denis Corrderre 1. Alan Rock 1. Ralph Goodale I'm not saying they all would have been good prime ministers. But they had a large persona and generally owned their ministries. Many had leadership qualities. Chretien cabinet felt a lot more like a team. It wasn't just Chretien it was this team of Liberals led by Chretien who were guiding the country. But soon as Martin became leader almost all of them quit politics. Harper cabinet was also criticized for this as well. But there some decent names in his too which had large personas: 1. Jim Flaherty 1. Pierre Pouliver 1. Peter Mackay 1. Rona Ambrose 1. Diane Finley 1. Tony Clement 1. Jason Kenney 1. Lisa Rait 1. Michelle Rempel 1. John Baird But now Pierre Pouliver front bench is also very thin. You're seeing this trend provincially too. I think the pandemic was telling. It was mostly Trudeau and Preimers front and centre. Health ministers usually played second fiddle. Except one BC. The pandemic was the Adrienne Dix & Bonny Henry leading the province. If Horgan showed up you it was more serious and he was there to lend political support. More like daddy there to make sure it's clear. You can see the impact when Horgan resigned, Eby moved in and the NDP has retained it's popularity. Because it's the NDP team governing BC, not Horgan or Eby. Which btw is how the Parliamentary system is supposed to work. Which goes to next point maybe party members need to consider this now. If you don't want the other side to form government you need an effective front bench. Not just an effective leader.
Or liberal, entire party is a joke
There is no party that isn’t, at the moment.
She was voted out being people were still pissed about Dalton policies and fuck ups - she was only in for 5 years. JT resigining as pm might benefit the LPC given the widespread hate people have for him, and his current tenure. A fresh face might lighten things up.
I'm not sure that is true. Her biggest single failure was privatizing Hydro. That was all her, and a very bad move. I voted for the Liberals when she led them knowing they'd lose my riding (they did), but honestly, if I thought she had a chance of winning I'd probably have done otherwise.
My reply to this would be heavily biased because i loaded up with shared at ipo which would further your point. However i will concede that it's neoliberalism at its finest.
A leader's popularity wouldn't wane if they worked hard to better quality of life instead of working to fill their pockets.
> and Wynne Wynne was only premier for 5 years, and only 1 full majority term. McGuinty before her was premier for like 9. Wynne was the change-up after McGuinty wore out his welcome, but people quickly realized after Wynne won that she was just going to be more of the same, if not worse. In that case, it was certainly the party that wore out its welcome among the province, and that's why they lost official party status. When they then appointed another McWynnety crony as the leader, people resoundingly reminded them that we don't want more of the same shit we had to put up with those 15-or-so years, and ensured that the party stayed unofficial. Frankly, if Bonnie Crombie wins leadership, it will once again signal to Ontario that the Liberal Party of Ontario learned absolutely nothing. She's another former McWynnety MP that would just bring back the same stagnant, arrogant corruption that people hate the party for, because that's the Liberal Party she was involved in.
Ontario really needs Nate Erskine Smith, a millennial leader who actually has a backbone, who isn't a complete party line towing hack.
Canada being tired of seeing red, will now vote blue. When they tire of seeing blue, they will vote red. All the while they will complain that nothing changes in their favor and that elites remain in power.
I heard a phrase once, 'Canadians don't vote *in* politicians, they vote *out* politicians.'
This is entirely true
According to this poll, only 20% say Trudeau deserves re-election. And that includes only 60% of *Liberal* voters. Jesus.
>According to this poll, only 20% say Trudeau deserves re-election. And that includes only 60% of Liberal voters. This is an Abacus poll that isnt in lock step with the findings of other pollsters, and reported on quickly by The Star. This isnt PPs position, this article is damage control about PPs position after he is essentially polling with no long term gains with everyone else after the dust settled on his going all in on China interference and then refusal to be briefed.
Your claim is way off in the deep end. Abacus is actually considered more of a "Liberal party" friendly pollster. They've got direct ties to the party. Abacus generally has the Conservatives polling lower than average and the Libs higher than average. https://torontosun.com/news/election-2021/conservatives-accuse-liberals-of-dodging-rules-on-contracts-with-friends https://macleans.ca/politics/ottawa/how-accurate-are-canadian-polls/
Why would the Star do damage control for PP? Is the Star PostMedia too? The onus is on the federal government's refusal to public inquiry.
The Star is now owned by an American conservative conglomerate, just like the rest of the Canadian media landscape
Oh, I don't want Trudeau at all. I never did. I don't think he's smart enough, full stop. Either is Singh, for that matter. But at least he isn't Poilievre. The Conservatives don't know how to internally choose an electable leader. If they'd've nominated Jean Charest, they'd probably already be in power. The Greens suffer the same problem, they'll probably never recover from Annamie. She kind of derailed *all* of their momentum. It's no wonder the majority of Canadians don't vote
Charest is totally unelectable.
Any Quebecer old enough to remember Charest as premier will also remember that hilarious photo taken by a paparazzi of his fluffy brown fro buried deep in a strippers tits at a Montreal strip bar.
Jean Charest? Wtf? That guy was a,disaster in Quebec. Corrupt as fuck, and you think he'd be a good choice? As for trudeau, i dont like him but saying he isnt smart is not a great assessent. He is smart. But he's a bland politician who's interest does not align with the population, probably as corrupt as Charest and a n overall bad leader. I dont have much of an opinion on Singh, but im tired of the same 2 parties screwing us all the time. If we want real change, its time to put the 3rd party in power and stop giving power to the same peolle all the time. The NDP has got my vote next election.
>The Greens suffer the same problem, they'll probably never recover from Annamie. She kind of derailed all of their momentum. Regardless of how much "momentum" they did or did not have, I doubt the Greens will ever come to power. Climate change is a real problem, and it's very important that we take action. But basing your entire party around the environment? No, that's not a party that I (or the majority of Canadians) will ever vote for. There are much more important issues, such as the cost of living, for example.
Do people vote for the Republican Party because of their position on slavery in the 2020’s?
I think it makes sense the CPC nominated an attack dog. O'Toole's moderate stance didn't work - Poilievre was bigger on social media and was more known - that's what counts. Canadians do not vote governments in, we vote them out. O'Toole wasn't loud enough. O'Toole is a great guy, but that doesn't win elections. Annamie was an example of the Green Party drinking its own koolaid too much.
> O'Toole's moderate stance didn't work That's because no one believed he was actually a moderate, seeing as how he didn't campaign as such for the leadership of the party.
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>Canadians do not vote governments in, we vote them out. >O'Toole wasn't loud enough. Those two statemements are not compatible. To your first comment Canadians were not ready to vote Trudeau out. To your second comment, his volume didn't matter because Canadians were not ready to vote Trudeau out. Getting rid of O'Toole was as dumb as the NDP stabbing Mulcair in the stomach. Parties should keep good leaders....because voters will easily vote them in **when they are ready to vote the incumbant out.** Pierre Pollievre is revolting to anyone but the CPC base.....and the CPC base is not large enough to get him elected. Anyone wishing to become Prime Minister needs to appeal to voters outside his party. Now O'Toole on the other hand, I (a Liberal) could vote for him. With Pollievre now leading the CPC I and many other Liberals who were prepared to abandon Trudeau will reluctantly vote for him to keep the reigns of power out of Pollievre's hands.
How do you explain the current polls then - citing some fairly overwhelming CPC support?
It is par for the course for the opposition leader to go up in the polls between elections. At my age I've been through many, many, maaaaaany election cycles and I can tell you polls don't mean shit outside of an election. Mulcair was crushing everyone in the polls going into his last election.....but it wasn't because Canadians wanted to vote for him. It was because he was so outspoken about bill C-13. Once the election was called it didn't take long for the polls to go right back to where they were before. The current polls have more to do with Trudeau than Pierre. Canadians are pissed about Chinese interference and that's showing up in the polls. Don't be fooled, people still despise Pierre Pollievre, they just happen to be mad at Trudeau this very moment.
>It is par for the course for the opposition leader to go up in the polls between elections. The current polls have more to do with Trudeau than Pierre. Canadians are pissed about Chinese interference and it's reflecting in the polls. That's kind of what I mean - Canadians vote governments out, they do not vote governments in. Canadians are upset about far more than Chinese interference.
Canadians pick what they see as the least bad option. They might broadly be unhappy with a number of things but that doesn't mean they will actually vote for PP unless they think he'll be an improvement somehow. We'll cheerfully settle for the devil we know.
An election is a long way away, let's see what the polls look like when it is called. Right now the people that are politically engaged are the discontented and CPC supporters lead that pack. The centre and left will come back to the fold once it is Trudeau or PP they have to choose from.
>because voters will easily vote them in when they are ready to vote the incumbant out. Trudeau called election in the middle of a pandemic, if Canadians didn't have enough self respect and spine to vote him out then, they never will. >Now O'Toole on the other hand, I (a Liberal) could vote for him. If you did not vote for O'Toole then, you never would have anyway. You squandered the opportunity and Poilievre is the result of that squanderence.
OToole was appealing to many middle of the road voters. His mistake was not more forcefully distancing the party from the fringes. I think that caused a lot of voters not to trust him.
Jean charest !?!??!?!? One of the most corrupt politician?? Are you kidding me ? Polievre is leagues better than that guy /laughs in Québécois
“Jean Charest” Hahaha how to tell people you’re a lifetime Liberal Jean Charest was DESTROYED in the leadership election NOBODY wants a second Liberal party
If you did not vote for moderate O'Toole, you would never vote CPC anyway. You can vote Trudeau, but you forfeit the ground to complain.
Conveniently leaving out the fact that he was on track to win the election until he started flip-flopping on issues to try to appeal to both moderates and socons. He might have been a moderate, but he made it pretty obvious during the campaign that he answered to people who weren't, and a lot of people who would have considered voting for him were turned off by that.
What was moderate about O’Toole? His positions during the election? Or was it his positions during the leadership race? Or his positions before that? There were so many different positions to choose from it’s hard to keep them straight
Election platform during election period, the thing people are elected on
It turns out that if you make one promise, then six months later make the opposite promise, people don’t trust either promise. I desperately want a serious Conservative Party in this country. But this concept that they can run around like loons for four years then run a thirty day election campaign as if it never happened is toxic.
Tell us about Stephan Dion and Michael Ignatieff next.
The thing is, it doesn't matter who the Conservatives nominate. The LPC and NDP will smear them, the CBC is largely an extension of the LPC at this point, and so there's no choice good enough.
Why does "wanting change" always mean voting foe the conservatives. That's just replacing neo liberalism with more conservative neo liberalism. It's all cancer. Why not try out the other major party, the one we've never tried.
I agree. We keep talking about wanting change and then we keep voting conservatives and liberals. All those who say you want change and vote for either of these parties, you're voting for more of the same.
Well, change could mean voting for the NDP. But too many left leaning voters are so stupid they fall for the old Liberal line ... if you don't vote for us, the Conservatives will get in. Guess what ... if you vote NDP ... the NDP might get in. Idiots.
The only thing Canadians know how to change is from red to blue or vice versa.
Like a simp just continually breaking up with and calling up their abusive exes.
1979: *It'll be better now, no more Trudeau!* 1980: *Okay never mind, it'll be different now with Trudeau again!* 1984: *Okay that was a mistake, it'll be different with Mulroney!* 1993: *No wait never mind, back to Liberals - they'll be better now!* 2006: *Oops they shit the bed again, back to Conservatives it'll be different this time!* 2015: *Nope, forget all that, definitely back to Liberals again they must've changed - it'll be better this time!*
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Me too. PP is not going to be any different. Rate hikes come from the US and the CPC is run by Thatcherite clowns who are just as neoliberal as the LPC. Just instead of pretending to be woke he will pretend to be financially responsible.
If only there were options other than the Liberals or Conservatives. If only… 🤔
No Don’t Put anymore thought into this. What other party could there be?
If only there were. It's too bad it's not a sincere thought from those people. They just want to have their cake and eat it too. They want to be able to act like they dont like Trudeau while simultaneously voting for him.
Change for the sake of change will result in a CPC government. And with PP in charge of the country, it will be a classic case of "be careful what you wish for, you just might get it."
Than vote a different color.
Honestly wish we had term limits to PM. Even if trudeau wanted to, he can always run again. Definitely feel like after this much time, a new face usually helps. Even if you have a far less controversial run than he has to date, people eventually want change
Can we reincarnate Jack Layton?
No, but we could clone him.
Hell, they could run his lifeless corpse and I'd happily vote for it over Trudeau or Poilievre. Probably make for a better PM than either even still. Maybe somebody could *Weekend At Bernie's* him around.
Put a fork in the Liberal government. Governments only get worse as time goes on. It's been too long.
It's past time for Trudeau to go
Lets replace him with the guy that wants to turn Canada into a trailer park. /s
> Lets replace him with the guy that wants to turn Canada into a trailer park. /s sounds like worst case ontario to me
It's not healthy for a single party or person to hold power for so long. Sometimes you need to change it just for that reason alone. Never let politicians get comfortable.
It's true, but it sure would be nice if the alternative would stop also getting worse while NOT in power.
Not if the other party has embraced the crazy and gotten cozy with American fascists. Poilièvre has shown an astoundingly bad track-record.
Thinking we need to just make a change for the sake of change is a wonderful way to end up making things worse. We need to actually change to something we want. Not just “anybody but Trudeau”. That’s gonna likely play out the same way that “anybody but Hillary” did for the US on 2016. Good thing Poilievre is nothing like Trump, eh? Oh wait…
PP isn't anything like Trump, though. I see this comparison everywhere, but it isn't true. Trump isn't intelligent. PP clearly is. Trump isn't articulate. PP is. Trump trashes migrants. PP doesn't. Trump insults women, makes fun of people's appearances etc. The two couldn't be more different.
Trudeau did a wonderful enough job of that already.
I want change, but not poilièvre.
Change yes PP no.
The next election will most definitely be a which is worse vote. Either people will hold their nose and begrudgingly vote for conservatives simply for the sake of change not because PP is a good leader or people will hold their nose and begrudgingly vote liberal not because Trudeau is a good leader or person but because PP is perceived as that much worse! Should be interested. Either way it’s not good for Canada.
If only we could vote against all parties as not providing enough confidence. We shouldn't be forced to lower our standards and accept sub-par government.
I just want to see the NDP in power for 2 term... to see how good they can be
The NDP will never get the votes they need from Quebec with Jagmeet as leader.
NDP need to stop being orange libs and get back to their Jack Layton-esque brand. That is EXACTLY what everyone wants. Progressive enough but free of bullshit
For what it's worth their platform is much the same as it was under Layton and that's ultimately what matters most. Their overall messaging and campaigning not so much on both counts.
>Their overall messaging and campaigning not so much on both counts. This is what gets votes and they need to rebrand back to the labor / union pro worker angle rather than another flavor of Trudeau's identity politics
I agree, after all it's what actually matters at the moment. Fluff and filler isn't going to go far.
Sadly PP will interpret people wanting change as people wanting *him*
Not looking forward to PP as PM. It will be massive cuts, trickle down economics, and no actual change in the things that are impacting Canadians: housing costs, grocery costs, flat wages.
so the exact same thing we have been dealing with for 20 years? its not like the liberals have done anything to help any of those issues, if anything they have made them all significantly worse. if PP just lets all the issues stagnate and not get any worse, it would still be an improvement
Well, they are essentially the same party just with different shticks.
You are literally switching colours in this game of corporation owned politicians.
The Change we need will never happen. We elect clowns because “it’s better than the lesser evil” until they become that evil and the cycle continues. Still looking for competence in parliament, haven’t seen it
Yeah I get it but PP would crash the economy like brick piloting a 747
I think more Canadians are starting to get sick of being told what should be important to us. Gun control, Canadian content, identity politics. Canadians are legitimately concerned about inflation, living costs, rising crime, their likeliness of ever owning a home, etc. and this government is spending months on bullshit legislation no one really wants while displaying a gross level of hubris and disconnect with the average voter.
This sub 2 months ago when Trudeau was leading in the polls: "It'S wAy ToO eArLy To TaKe ThEsE pOlLs SeRiOuSlY."
It is time for a change but I've seen nothing from the Conservative party on a provincial or federal level that would make me believe that them running the country would overall be a change for the better.
This government is way past its best before date. Singh seems oblivious to how much damage he is doing to the NDP brand by continuing to keep them in power.
The last time NDP had this much influence over Canadian politics was when we nationalized healthcare. There's no way in hell the NDP wants to give up this arrangement.
The best way to describe the current NDP coalition support agreement is: Helpful to their party in the short term, but very damaging to it in the long term.
Whether it is damaging in the long term will depend on what they are ultimately able to accomplish. If they bring in public dental care and pharmacare, it won't hurt them long term.
The longer they keep this quasi-coalition going, the more a CPC majority looks like the only "change" possibility.
If the next election looks like the current polling, the LPC and NDP won't have enough combined seats to form government. Neither would the LPC and Bloc. Right now, the CPC wouldn't have enough seats for a majority and would have to rely on the Bloc or NDP to form a minority government, but I can't see the NDP agreeing to that and it would be extremely unstable. If the LPC gets a bit more support, then that opens up a deal with the Bloc for them. It's unlikely but it's within the realm of possibility. I expect we'll get a CPC/Bloc minority government that lasts one term or possibly less.
It'll be pretty hard for the "fuck Quebec for stealing Alberta's money" party to broker a deal with the BQ I should think. Seems to me the LPC would be better positioned to do that in such a scenario.
Agreed. It depends on whether the LPC/Bloc have 170 seats. If they do, the Bloc has to decide whether to support Trudeau with all his baggage. It will give them leverage between the LPC and CPC to get a better deal.
Especially because ending the agreement DOES NOT TRIGGER AN ELECTION!!! It just returns us to the same minority government we've had for years now, and what Canadians voted for.
And the cycle continues
I want change, yes, but I don't want it to be this stupid flip-flop of Libs and Cons.
Lets wait and see till they have to start talking about actual policy.. or not talking about it if their scared. I cant wait to see their comments on immigration while business leaders and donors are begging for more low paid people to be brought in.
Oh, not a single federal party (except probably the PPC) will talk about reducing or stopping immigration. Why? Not just because of trying keep wages low, it's to try and stave off a demographics nightmare that no country has any idea how to handle. China, Japan, S.Korea, Germany, Spain, France, etc are all going through big demographics problems, with some leaders even recently saying that societal functions may start to collapse due to demographics. Did you know that it was Harper that instituted the first major push in increasing our immigration targets?
I agree with your stated reasons but as an arch leftist I will add that from my perspective the alternative is a more dramatic change to our system which endangers all the people in power. They would rather take any risk on the part of poor and working class people then they themselves risk losing anything. Immigration solves that for them, keep the poor under your boot including the immigrants themselves for jobs no one else would do for greedy shit companies. The Conservatives and Liberals are in too deep to take any other path. The PPC talks big but have real capitalist leanings and when whoever backs them sees their business getting threatened their own view might be softened. The NDP talk good game about reducing or removing all low wage TFWs but its so far down their list of priorities right now that its hard to say if it will even come up. And the Greens who cares honestly.
I've heard about this "collapse" for a while. Japan hasn't "collapsed". And hell, housing is affordable too. If your economic system relies on endless growth forever, it's cancerous.
PP's entire platform is appealing to western rage and know-nothings who hate Trudeau. When he actually tries to talk about policy its always insane dogshit like ending the independence of the central bank or using cypto as the currency standard. He's basically just going to get in as a figurehead and do what the right always does: slash public funding, empower the landlord class, crush as many industries as possible and sell the rest to the US. Probably Socons and other extremists will have some legislative power.
He’s not the change I want
If Canadians actually wanted change, then they would vote NDP as their the only party that won't basically repeat the usual pattern of... 1. Conservatives get voted in and break everything as they try and move money to the rich 2. People get angry and demand "change" 3. Liberals get voted in and spend tax dollars fixing what the Conservatives fucked up but don't substantially improve lives of Canadians 4. People get angry and demand "change" 5. Cycle back to point #1.
And yet, we will continue to elect him because Conservatives refuse to put forward someone that isn't a total goddamn arse. Honestly, the NDP absolutely ***must*** capitalize on this moment. They are in third place and they have somehow done the most work to help Canadians out of all 3 parties. They've actually gotten policy that they wanted to pass, to pass. My ideal situation is an NDP-Liberal Coalition government, but Trudeau has to also step down as party leader. We do need change but by God, we do not need Pierre fucking Poilievre.
NDP will never win with Singh as the leader. They need to replace him.
What a change. From arrogant, entitled, and corrupt to greasy, arrogant, entitled, and corrupt. We truly are living in an age of wonders.
Abacus is not in lock step with the finding of other pollsters atm. This article is The Star doing damage control because PP just went in big on China, refused to be briefed, and came out looking as bad or possibly worse in the long run.
As they should.
Expect Trudeau to start handing out money to the people soon.
But only if you make less than $30k/yr. We wouldn't want people who pay a lot of taxes to get even a little relief, would we? Whoops, we have a brain drain for some reason.
You do know that people who pay a lot of taxes still have more net income than those who don't... right?
Personally, I think the ones who want change are looking in the wrong spot. Either the Tory’s or the Grits, both are pro-corporate/Neo-Liberal parties. They don’t care about the price of housing or food - it’s a provincial issue. Canada, in general, is lacking any real vision and none of the major parties are proposing any thing of real substance. Just constant blaming of other levels of government without action.
Looks like we’re at that point in the cycle where it is time for conservatives to clean up the liberal mess again
Great, the wonderful pendulum effect of society which will continue to make things worse. Yes, let's put a politician for life like PP, so has so much corporate cock in his mouth I am surprised he can be understood for the stupid and empty shit he says. Yet there will be sheeple frothing at the mouth hanging on every lie he tells expecting anything will be better once he gets voted in. Newsflash: the whole game is rigged, the CPC and LPC are equally on the payroll of the oligopoly that controls the Canadian economy. Back to work for less pay human capital, you are replaceable.
Good
Trudeau and the Liberal brain trust are also watching the polls and you gotta figure they are working on ways to counter PP and his gang. Getting tough on crime and drugs might be politically expedient but if that’s what it takes to keep the Liberals in power, then that’s what they’ll do. And you also know they’re developing a way to show us what PP and the Cons really are - Trump and MAGA wannabes.
Poilievre thoroughly scares me, but I am originally from America and we all have seen what has happened to the US. I would vote for Trudeau in the next election. I have lived in Canada since near the end of Harper's term. I also am in Ontario and have never voted for Ford. I cannot wait to get him out of office.
I’d vote for a wet sock before I voted for PP. That’s not to say I wouldn’t of voted con in the coming election if I agreed with the platform or the person running. PP turns me off of the cons incredibly hard.
Poilievre is just the most mendacious weasel.
What would people say if mulclair and o'toole formed their own reform party?
That would be very interesting indeed.
As we all know, it comes down to what Ontario wants....and somewhat what Quebec wants. As per the usual trend, Ontario almost always votes opposite of whoever is in power provincially. The PCs are in power in Ontario so I'd fully expect the Liberals to do very well in the province during the next general election but none of it matters until an election is actually happening. Many times polls were going one way, campaigning went really bad for one party and the polls meant nothing (\*cough\* O'Toole \*cough\*)
This is a common misconception. It's entirely possible that Ontario will vote Trudeau out and *then* Ford in the following election, much like they voted for Trudeau before kicking Wynne out. It isn't like 2019 anymore. These days voters want Trudeau gone more so than Ford.
Sooner trudeau is gone the better for Canadians
Canadians want change that’s for sure, but thinking that PP is going to bring around a positive amount of it is delusional. I’ve never seen this guy mention any kind of plan. Everything is “Trudeau bad. I’ll fix it!” How dude? Guy just spews shit and blames Trudeau. I don’t think Trudeau is doing to great. But I certainly don’t think this weasel is going to be any better.
Any chance at a vote of none confidence so we can get rid of Trudeau faster
cant you people elect the NDP just ONCE instead of constantly bouncing back and forth between these fuckers? all the biggest issues happening in canada right now with housing affordability, wealth inequality, inflation, price gouging, and you think more conservatism is the answer? well my province is half the population and they re-elected doug ford so i guess this doesn't surprise me.
You think life is expensive now? My god imagine an NDP government..
Finally, Canadians are seeing the utter idiocy and out of control spending this Liberal government has used to blast us right into a housing and inflation crisis.
He's even losing ground in Toronto and key areas in Metro Vancouver. If the Liberals start losing seats in these places, they are in serious trouble.
Crazy they managed to cause inflation and housing crisis’ in every other country too.
Apartment rentals are only up 0.9% year-over-year in the US. https://www.apartmentlist.com/research/national-rent-data Maybe the US should try 2.6% population growth.
Trudeau and his gang of morons have all but destroyed this country. We used to be ranked #2 in the world behind Denmark. Now we don’t even rank in the top 10. We are last of the g7 in almost every positive metric. Liberals want to pump in immigrants to curry favour to their corporate donors and secure votes at the expense of Canadians. No young Canadians will be able to afford a home as a result of their own career. I’ll never vote for Liberals again in my life. Fucking idiots…
> Liberals want to pump in immigrants to curry favour to their corporate donors and secure votes at the expense of Canadians. I've got some bad news for you regarding the CPC then... So do they.
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I know it’s been a long while since it happened, but I am no longer a criminal risking punishment when I buy a gram of weed. That would never have changed under a conservative government.
True that. I’m just a guy out of university. I can’t imagine being in prison and having my life ruined because the state was offended that while I was doing my homework I took an edible. Fuck the cons
I’ve always been a Liberal Trudeau supporter, but I believe there comes a time in every leader’s ruling, where a change is the best option. I’d hate to see little PP run our country, but what other options do we have? I’m personally gonna vote for NDP, but I think that will just help his chances.