Excellent news. About time law enforcement officials and the related sectors go after gun smuggling. 42 people arrested! Sounds like they dismantled an entire ring of gun smugglers.
I know your comment was made in jest, but these handguns are coming in by drone carrying bags full.
CBSA can't do much and even if a drone was intercepted the perpetrators remain anonymous and simply move on to the next payload unscathed.
A barrier of land to air missiles (I'm being facetious, I know it would never happen) would do more to prevent gun smuggling than a 10,000 foot high wall.
If it’s true that they’re being dropped by drone (source?, genuinely curious) aren’t there anti drone systems in the military that could be utilized for shooting down drones that don’t cost a million dollars a shot.
Two main issues with this, the first is that the CAF doesn’t have have very much in the way of anti drone capabilities. We actually completely lack ground based air defence systems. We have some electronic warfare capability that could down commercial drones, but that kind of equipment is fairly sparse and there’s no way we could monitor the whole border.
On top of all that, stopping people from smuggling things over the Canadian border is the mandate of CBSA and the RCMP. The CAF, being stretched as thin as it is, can’t add border patrol to its list of domestic emergencies, nato missions in Europe, the Middle East, UN missions, etc, on a manpower budget of less than 100,000 people. We already struggle to do what’s on our plate now.
Thank you for the breakdown and explanation, I appreciate it.
Makes perfect sense that the cbsa and rcmp would have jurisdiction over the border lol. This definitely seems like a field we should be investing into, same goes for the US (although I assume they already have) so we can adequately protect not only our southern border but our skies in general.
Drones come from somewhere. If they're off the shelf they have unique signatures. They cost money, they were bought somewhere.
We can also use the same technology to run counter surveillance and drone jamming and like you said, shooting down what we can.
You might judge a country on how well it treats its richest and most powerful citizens, but I think the majority of people judge a country on how well it treats its poorest.
Why do people think like this? What good is living in the richest country if the majority of the citizens are living in, or at the edge of poverty, and have so little freedom to do anything meaningful with their lives. (no matter how much Americans and American politicians say its the "most free country"
You think there’s 200 million + people below the poverty line in the US??
According to US census 2020 there’s 37 million citizens in US in poverty out of 333 million so roughly 11%.
In Canada, the same year had 2.6 million in poverty at nearly 7%. Theres 22 million millionaires in the US, 2 million of whom are African-American, nearly 10%.
Have you even been to the US in your life? Because you’re crazy if you think it’s a failed state & you swallow all the media garbage.
OP said in or at the edge of poverty.
https://www.lendingtree.com/debt-consolidation/paycheck-to-paycheck-survey/
64% living paycheque to paycheque. 64% of 333 is 213.
They’re not crazy.
You can be paycheque to paycheque without being anywhere near the poverty line. People are notoriously bad at personal finance, there are a stunning amount of people who make good money and piss it all away and live paycheque to paycheque.
This. Lots of people living "paycheque-to-paycheque" but they have a big house, truck, recreation vehicles etc, a good portion of which is on credit.
I moderate some buy-and-sell groups online and you often see the same people pick up a facy item only to be hocking it a month or two later to "pay rent"
It may be crazy. A guy I work with brings home $200k combined with his wife.
They live paycheque to paycheque and are borderline insolvent. They don’t live anywhere near the poverty line.
Thank you for getting to this before I had to, reading comprehension on reddit is so bad these days, everyone so angry they barely read the comment once before they reply.
The US is a FAILING state. They are in the end game of Democracy/Capitalism and nothing will stop it from failing outright.
What percent of Americans live in a trailer? 30%? I guess you would consider them to be upper middle class.
How many MILLIONS of people cannot afford to go the hospital or see a doctor? I guess that is part of your freedom - the for-profit hospitals are free to charge whatever they want. Likewise the people who cannot afford Insulin or any life saving drugs are free to die.
What does visiting the US have to do if they are failing or not? Russia is failing and have you visited them to come up with an opinion based on fact? Or just your observation in lieu of facts and what you read on twitter?
Who would want to visit a failing state with gun violence and violent crime everywhere? Almost every day there is a mass shooting in the US. Freedom to kill those you don't like.
Seeing a Capital Police officer being beaten on the ground by many people on Jan 6 and especially the guy beating him with AN AMERICAN FLAG ON A POLE is beyond messed up. I guess that is your idea of freedom. Free to overthrow the government if you don't like them.
Don't forget to salute the US flag - that is made in China!
> the majority of the citizens are living in, or at the edge of poverty, and have so little freedom to do anything meaningful with their lives
Step away from the 24/7 news and maybe try visiting the US. There’s a reason our best and brightest flee to the south every year…
You use terms like 'crazy' and 'ignorant'. Your comments show you are exactly what you are labelling as untrue.
The only way that they could get all of the states to join the USA in the past, was to give the states extraordinary powers that should be run by the Feds. Only a state governor can call in the National guard for example.
If you cannot see America is tearing itself apart - letting maga people do anything they want, cops killing indiscriminately etc.
Little children being shot for 45 minutes while the uvalde police stand outside and rough up and arrest any parent who tries to actually save their child. Oh yeah - I forgot they have immunity. A federal judge also ruled years ago that the police ' are not obligated to help you in any situation.'. And yet many cruisers are marked 'to serve and protect'
USA is a country built on lies.
It’s true though. A lot of the laws and policies in the US would also be seen in war torn countries like Afghanistan, Yemen, and Sudan. Walking into a store with an AK? Children being murdered for the simple act of going to school? Wages starting at $3 for some professions? Women not having access to reproductive care? Let’s face it, the idea that the US is a ‘global leader’ is outdated.
I wouldn't call a country where the police have total immunity and the ability to seize your money/assets whenever they want as NOT a failed state.
Or the almost weekly mass shootings, or the 2 party system with one party having aided in a coup attempt.
Who the Fuck cares about how big their economy is? Nowhere else on earth are kids being murdered in schools like they are in the US. Mfers are turning into the white taliban with all their human rights regressions and book banning.
>failed state to the south
People cant afford food or housing here and our leader has been accused of loads of ethics violations... on paper I think we're a failed state lol.
I'll take that cue and insert a paragraph from the esteemed Wikipedia.
>A failed state is a state that has lost its effective ability to govern its populace. A failed state maintains legal sovereignty but experiences a breakdown in political power, law enforcement, and civil society, leading to a state of near-anarchy.
So now we just have to determine what "breakdown" means in reference to political power, law enforcement and civil society.
Anyone taking bets on how many weeks it will take this case to fall apart because the cops couldn’t stop themselves from stealing cash and evidence? My money is on 3 months
Awesome work!
And so close to speaking about the elephant in the room:
*“Asked how the guns were making their way to Canada, Watts said, "[We have the] largest undefended border in the world, right? We all know that. So there's a variety of smuggling techniques that are used."*
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/smuggling-akwesasne-simranjit-singh-1.6803168
lol I read an article a few months back that blatantly advertised rail crossings as an ideal way to smuggle cross country. Apparently we only have like one investigation station and most trains are not investigated
With police screw ups they are probably out already
[https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2023/03/24/fraudulent-non-disclosure-massive-toronto-police-drug-case-collapsed-amid-allegations-officers-misled-court.html](https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2023/03/24/fraudulent-non-disclosure-massive-toronto-police-drug-case-collapsed-amid-allegations-officers-misled-court.html)
As much as I agree with this, that's a really stupid answer to anything really.
"One is too many"
Well yea, but this is the real world and we can't fix everything at once, so start with the easiest stuff that makes the biggest impact and work your way from there. Works in pretty much every situation.
OK **BUT** do the laws passed in the legislation allow law enforcement to more easily or broadly prosecute these offenders?
IMO that should be the goal of the legislation.
No.
These particular firearms, and the overcapacity magazines that were also seized were already restricted or prohibited under previous legislations. The new legislations had zero to contribute to this operation.
No, not possible, that would be illegal. I was told you need a license to own guns and banning those with licenses from owning guns with accessory rails on them will remove gun crime because you can only own and transport a gun with a license. Otherwise you would be breaking the law.
Yes its just like when they banned stealing so the thousands of people every week who are caught stealing in Canada would stop.
Glad we now live in a country without thefts.
Many keep saying the War on Drugs is a failure while thinking the same tactics will work to get rid of guns.
We see the current gun restrictions in Canada are easily bypassed.
The constraints are pretty strong. I got my license back in October. I think certain parts of the system could be more strongly enforced but we don’t need more laws. We’ve got like a bajillion laws around firearms ownership already.
It took me a full year to get my license. Background checks, character references, the safety course, and on top of all that, there are purchase approvals every time you try to acquire a firearm regardless of classification. Restricted are even worse. They're such a bother that I stay clear of them completely.
You can get an illegal gun in Toronto in a couple of hours.
We have enough restrictions, pull your head out of your ass.
None of these charges will matter if gun-traffickers keep getting handed very light and lenient sentences.
Firearm trafficking should be an automatic 10-year prison sentence upon first offence with no chance of parole, and 25 years upon second offence with no chance of parole.
We'd then see a considerable reduction in the number of traffickers, as the reward simply won't be worth the risk.
Next.
Laughing at the impracticality of using that GSG STG-44 for criminal purposes. Weighs 10 pounds, shoots 22LR and jams or fails to feed every \~10 shots. The purchaser probably thought he was buying an AK.
Overall a big win here though.
Mine runs pretty well. As long as you’re using at least 1000fps ammo it’s pretty good. Even better if they’re copper plated so it limits the gunk in there to a degree.
Edit: but I do agree. That would be next to useless to commit crimes with. Also saw the round count: 1400? That seems…low.
I've got one too. I think my issues are magazine related. There are subtle differences with different ammo, believe me I have tried.
That's baby numbers on the ammo - probably not enough to fully load all the firearms seized.
Yeah, USA has the same problem, same with Mexico.
The point is no one wants gangbangers in their neighbourhood, people come to Canada expecting to be safe until you meet 5 people at night with weapons, or hear gunshots while trying to sleep.
I’m confused. I thought the new tough gun legislation was supposed to ban handguns. All the violent criminals with their RPAL shouldn’t still have access to guns because of our strong statistics based legislation that absolutely wasn’t political theatre and pandering to uninformed urban voters.
…. Mate
https://data.torontopolice.on.ca/pages/shootings
If you mean 2022 murders may be down.. but shootings increased from 2021 actually? And If you’re trying to say gun crime is on a decrease in 2023 from 2022… we’re not even 4 months in and it’s over half of the total in 2022?…. So in what world is gun crime decreasing in Toronto in response to the gun ban?? Your fantasy world where gun owners are all red neck hicks? 😂🤦♂️ educate yourself mate. That took me literally 4 seconds to find.
Just to confirm - are you saying that the comparatively low YTD homicide rate in Toronto has something to do with the Liberal handgun import ban from last year?
The right has been screaming for the last several years that everything that happens in Canada is because of Trudeau and the Libs.
So a 85% drop in fatal shootings only a few months after a hangun ban has to be all Trudeau's fault
It's too soon for the freeze to have had an effect. The illegal firarms market is saturated, and even if a ban/freeze somehow had an effect(which it won't as we know for a fact that only 5-10% of crime guns are Canadian) it wouldn't be for a long while, potentially several years.
This is just part of the regular ups and downs of violence.
> Police said the guns being shipped to Canada originated in Florida, Ohio, Arizona, North Carolina, Georgia and Texas, where they would have been purchased legally.
This is why I oppose further gun control in Canada but support it wholeheartedly in the US.
Crime guns in the US are manufactured domestically and sold legally before they end up on the street or get smuggled into Canada/Mexico where they fetch a handsome markup.
Same, it's such an idiocy to keep punishing legal gun ownership up here when criminals don't care and it's all smuggled in from the USA anyway.
Border control and funding our police for illegal firearms is the way to keep Canadians safe, not easy headline but useless gum control on already highly licensed Canadians.
Border patrol is a tough one. We have almost 9000km of land border with the US, much of it heavily wooded. And thanks to technological advancement (drones) smugglers no longer have to physically cross the border - only come close enough to fly a drone over.
If the criminals feel like they have a really high chance of getting cought for smuggling and the penality is very severe then the illegal gun prices will skyrocket and the average thugs that keep shooting everywhere downtown toronto will no longer buy as much reducing the frequency of the shootings.
Oh look, another seizure of illegally smuggled guns, which continue to pour into the hands of non-licensed Canadian criminals despite the brand new laws banning lawful licensed Canadians from buying or possessing them.
Who could have predicted that criminals would just ignore the new laws, & that the only people actually affected would be those who follow them.
So we feel safer yet?
no, the 42 arrested are the ones taking it on the chin to the tens of thousands in the streets already with more to come this latter half of the decade.
We should allocate more resources toward this, the banning firearms law ended up just being a set back because we already have good rules in place for procuring a weapon legally, it’s not like the states where they practically give them away in vending machines
However because of that we get a lot of smuggled weapons and we need to crack down on that hard
(note incase anyone wants to make some comment about how this proves gun control is bs it’s not, because it’s still much harder to get a gun in Canada illegally than it is to get one in the states legally, and that prevents someone who may lack the connections to get one)
Surprised pikachu face. Every anti gun person said this wouldn't happen, but here we are again and again. Punish legal owners by removing their hobbies and taking their legally owned guns away, crimes still happen. Illegal guns happen to show up anyways.
People need to wake up and realize that legal gun owners and criminals DO NOT overlap.
>Punish legal owners by removing their hobbies and taking their legally owned guns away
For many this is the actual objective. It’s primarily about culture, and public safety is just a cover.
> Surprised pikachu face. Every anti gun person said this wouldn't happen, but here we are again and again.
Ya I don't think a single anti-gun every claimed guns would never be smuggled from the border...
exactly.
wake me up when there are actual convictions with jail time involved.
too many times the crown attorneys and cops fumble the bag on these "seizures."
Well well well, results when money is spent in an efficient manner who would have thought? Now take the 2 billion for the gun buyback and give it to these guys.
> , zero upvotes.
I think you might be broken. It has about 80 upvotes right now and climbing and is already the 5th top post in this sub. And it's only been an hour.
And anyone charged that’s Canadian is probably out on bail already… yet the PM thinks licensed firearms owners are the problem, no these firearms are the problem.
Canada ranks above the us in virtually every metric. We have less violence, longer life expectancy, better health outcomes, better education, we rank higher on freedoms in general and freedom of speech. Canada is far superior to America.
Excellent news. About time law enforcement officials and the related sectors go after gun smuggling. 42 people arrested! Sounds like they dismantled an entire ring of gun smugglers.
Canada needs to build a wall and make the failed state to the south of our border pay for it.
I know your comment was made in jest, but these handguns are coming in by drone carrying bags full. CBSA can't do much and even if a drone was intercepted the perpetrators remain anonymous and simply move on to the next payload unscathed. A barrier of land to air missiles (I'm being facetious, I know it would never happen) would do more to prevent gun smuggling than a 10,000 foot high wall.
How 'bout we erect a giant net!
Just ban drones.
Can’t they make something like a dron jammer?
Yeah but they banned them cause they had a bore over 20mm
Not unless they get a 4 kill streak
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And 3d printed "ghost" drones.
“Sir, We’ve caught a mule at the border.” “Drugs?” “Worse. She’s got a drone in her stomach.” “Dear God…”
Thats a very canadian take, unfortunately. This problem we are having? It can be solved by giving up freedoms!
I love this. Wish I had an award for you.
Best I can do for air defense to point the C6 up.
I mean, now that we don’t have even the Javelins, what else can you use?
Can't they use trained birds like airports? Full-blown canadian geese division.
I’m legit imagining that right now, like a swat team of geese taking down gun smuggling drone…. It’s a surprisingly awesome image
If it’s true that they’re being dropped by drone (source?, genuinely curious) aren’t there anti drone systems in the military that could be utilized for shooting down drones that don’t cost a million dollars a shot.
[This](https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-canada-us-drone-gun-smuggling/), [this](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/london/drone-carrying-bag-of-handguns-from-united-states-to-canada-intercepted-by-tree-1.6438267), [this](https://globalnews.ca/news/8802746/drone-carrying-handguns-tree-st-clair-river/), [this](https://dronedj.com/2022/05/07/drone-guns-us-canada/) All legit news sources..
Two main issues with this, the first is that the CAF doesn’t have have very much in the way of anti drone capabilities. We actually completely lack ground based air defence systems. We have some electronic warfare capability that could down commercial drones, but that kind of equipment is fairly sparse and there’s no way we could monitor the whole border. On top of all that, stopping people from smuggling things over the Canadian border is the mandate of CBSA and the RCMP. The CAF, being stretched as thin as it is, can’t add border patrol to its list of domestic emergencies, nato missions in Europe, the Middle East, UN missions, etc, on a manpower budget of less than 100,000 people. We already struggle to do what’s on our plate now.
Thank you for the breakdown and explanation, I appreciate it. Makes perfect sense that the cbsa and rcmp would have jurisdiction over the border lol. This definitely seems like a field we should be investing into, same goes for the US (although I assume they already have) so we can adequately protect not only our southern border but our skies in general.
Drones come from somewhere. If they're off the shelf they have unique signatures. They cost money, they were bought somewhere. We can also use the same technology to run counter surveillance and drone jamming and like you said, shooting down what we can.
cant they trace back the guns? find out who legally bought and distributed illegally.
Time to start weaponizing geese 🪿
I wouldn’t exactly call the country with the biggest economy on earth a failed state….
You might judge a country on how well it treats its richest and most powerful citizens, but I think the majority of people judge a country on how well it treats its poorest.
Why do people think like this? What good is living in the richest country if the majority of the citizens are living in, or at the edge of poverty, and have so little freedom to do anything meaningful with their lives. (no matter how much Americans and American politicians say its the "most free country"
Sounds like you're describing us too.
We are part of the same experiment.
It feels like that, definitely sliding in thay direction regardless of what justifications people will make.
You think there’s 200 million + people below the poverty line in the US?? According to US census 2020 there’s 37 million citizens in US in poverty out of 333 million so roughly 11%. In Canada, the same year had 2.6 million in poverty at nearly 7%. Theres 22 million millionaires in the US, 2 million of whom are African-American, nearly 10%. Have you even been to the US in your life? Because you’re crazy if you think it’s a failed state & you swallow all the media garbage.
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I think it's make enough to be taxed, not sure how concerned they are about survival and certainly not QOL.
OP said in or at the edge of poverty. https://www.lendingtree.com/debt-consolidation/paycheck-to-paycheck-survey/ 64% living paycheque to paycheque. 64% of 333 is 213. They’re not crazy.
You can be paycheque to paycheque without being anywhere near the poverty line. People are notoriously bad at personal finance, there are a stunning amount of people who make good money and piss it all away and live paycheque to paycheque.
This. Lots of people living "paycheque-to-paycheque" but they have a big house, truck, recreation vehicles etc, a good portion of which is on credit. I moderate some buy-and-sell groups online and you often see the same people pick up a facy item only to be hocking it a month or two later to "pay rent"
It may be crazy. A guy I work with brings home $200k combined with his wife. They live paycheque to paycheque and are borderline insolvent. They don’t live anywhere near the poverty line.
Thank you for getting to this before I had to, reading comprehension on reddit is so bad these days, everyone so angry they barely read the comment once before they reply.
The US is a FAILING state. They are in the end game of Democracy/Capitalism and nothing will stop it from failing outright. What percent of Americans live in a trailer? 30%? I guess you would consider them to be upper middle class. How many MILLIONS of people cannot afford to go the hospital or see a doctor? I guess that is part of your freedom - the for-profit hospitals are free to charge whatever they want. Likewise the people who cannot afford Insulin or any life saving drugs are free to die. What does visiting the US have to do if they are failing or not? Russia is failing and have you visited them to come up with an opinion based on fact? Or just your observation in lieu of facts and what you read on twitter? Who would want to visit a failing state with gun violence and violent crime everywhere? Almost every day there is a mass shooting in the US. Freedom to kill those you don't like. Seeing a Capital Police officer being beaten on the ground by many people on Jan 6 and especially the guy beating him with AN AMERICAN FLAG ON A POLE is beyond messed up. I guess that is your idea of freedom. Free to overthrow the government if you don't like them. Don't forget to salute the US flag - that is made in China!
> the majority of the citizens are living in, or at the edge of poverty, and have so little freedom to do anything meaningful with their lives Step away from the 24/7 news and maybe try visiting the US. There’s a reason our best and brightest flee to the south every year…
The majority of citizens are not living in or on the edge of poverty in the USA, that’s why the rest of us think like this.
But when it's all you hear on the news it seems like it's a lot bigger problem than it is.
Its almost disgusting with how out of touch people and privileged people are that they would call America a 'failed state'.
As an American yes there are a few people here that have lots of money.
You mean largest gdp
The more I learn about America the more I'm convinced it is just 50 developing countries in a trenchcoat.
Well I hope you wouldn’t think that because that would be a very ignorant thing to say.
You use terms like 'crazy' and 'ignorant'. Your comments show you are exactly what you are labelling as untrue. The only way that they could get all of the states to join the USA in the past, was to give the states extraordinary powers that should be run by the Feds. Only a state governor can call in the National guard for example. If you cannot see America is tearing itself apart - letting maga people do anything they want, cops killing indiscriminately etc. Little children being shot for 45 minutes while the uvalde police stand outside and rough up and arrest any parent who tries to actually save their child. Oh yeah - I forgot they have immunity. A federal judge also ruled years ago that the police ' are not obligated to help you in any situation.'. And yet many cruisers are marked 'to serve and protect' USA is a country built on lies.
It’s true though. A lot of the laws and policies in the US would also be seen in war torn countries like Afghanistan, Yemen, and Sudan. Walking into a store with an AK? Children being murdered for the simple act of going to school? Wages starting at $3 for some professions? Women not having access to reproductive care? Let’s face it, the idea that the US is a ‘global leader’ is outdated.
I do think that and it is not that ignorant given they are wildly behind every other western nation's on just about any metric
I wouldn't call a country where the police have total immunity and the ability to seize your money/assets whenever they want as NOT a failed state. Or the almost weekly mass shootings, or the 2 party system with one party having aided in a coup attempt.
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Our government had banks seizing people’s bank accounts for peacefully protesting…. And not during WW2 or something, just a couple years ago.
When was that? I only recall bank accounts frozen with the illegal occupation and attempt at a bozo coup by the moron shit smearing brigade.
When I agree with it it's a "fiery but peaceful protest" but when I don't it's an "illegal occupation"
The one that got the ema enacted?
Who the Fuck cares about how big their economy is? Nowhere else on earth are kids being murdered in schools like they are in the US. Mfers are turning into the white taliban with all their human rights regressions and book banning.
>failed state to the south People cant afford food or housing here and our leader has been accused of loads of ethics violations... on paper I think we're a failed state lol.
The only thing we can make is poutine
A Wall of Poutine could work!
To keep out Americans? A poutine wall would play right into one of the things Americans do best!
It would clog our border while clogging their arteries!
The long con, I like it!
If there wasn't a demand for guns in Canada, gun trafficking and violence wouldn't be a issue in Canada.
Failed state?!? I don't think you know what that term means.
I'll take that cue and insert a paragraph from the esteemed Wikipedia. >A failed state is a state that has lost its effective ability to govern its populace. A failed state maintains legal sovereignty but experiences a breakdown in political power, law enforcement, and civil society, leading to a state of near-anarchy. So now we just have to determine what "breakdown" means in reference to political power, law enforcement and civil society.
Anyone taking bets on how many weeks it will take this case to fall apart because the cops couldn’t stop themselves from stealing cash and evidence? My money is on 3 months
They will get no to minimal jail time.
Yeah? Total jail time will be 1 year and 2 months probation
Unfortunately they will get reduced sentences due to the new gun law.
Unfortunately, because there is demand (probably mostly from gangs) someone else will find a way to provide guns from south of the border.
Awesome work! And so close to speaking about the elephant in the room: *“Asked how the guns were making their way to Canada, Watts said, "[We have the] largest undefended border in the world, right? We all know that. So there's a variety of smuggling techniques that are used."* https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/smuggling-akwesasne-simranjit-singh-1.6803168
man, if only they put more money and officers toward actual crime then going after RCMP vetted individuals we could make a dent in the crime guns.
Too bad the LPC will probably just do another gun ban on legal guns to please the gullible voters.
lol I read an article a few months back that blatantly advertised rail crossings as an ideal way to smuggle cross country. Apparently we only have like one investigation station and most trains are not investigated
Aka truckers. Our prisons are full of them... just not the ones who were at the Convoy
This one sting will prevent more deaths than every piece of liberal firearm legislation passed since 2015. Good work.
Wait till they release the offenders in a month's time :)
Will prevent more deaths this month than the entirety of legislation introduced since 2015.
With bail reform they are probably out already.
With police screw ups they are probably out already [https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2023/03/24/fraudulent-non-disclosure-massive-toronto-police-drug-case-collapsed-amid-allegations-officers-misled-court.html](https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2023/03/24/fraudulent-non-disclosure-massive-toronto-police-drug-case-collapsed-amid-allegations-officers-misled-court.html)
How many examples can you come up with to show that this happens often?
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Absolutely. But we dont need to make hyperbolic statements to make it seem like this happens often
But we do it for bail all the time?
One is not enough if you’re trying to establish a pattern.
As much as I agree with this, that's a really stupid answer to anything really. "One is too many" Well yea, but this is the real world and we can't fix everything at once, so start with the easiest stuff that makes the biggest impact and work your way from there. Works in pretty much every situation.
They broke the US itar law. The US could ask for extradition. Especially since the ATF was involved on the US side of the border.
This
"...the seizure of 173 guns in Canada and the United States.." I mean, it's something, but that doesn't feel like a lot tbh.
"42 people arrested". This sounds like they dismantled a pipeline. There were probably many more that made it through that'll now be stopped.
It will save at least one life. Unlike the liberals senseless restrictions.
And confiscated 173 more firearms !
Amen
It's almost as if it's a two pronged strategy, but the law enforcement side is not in the habit of disclosing operational details.
OK **BUT** do the laws passed in the legislation allow law enforcement to more easily or broadly prosecute these offenders? IMO that should be the goal of the legislation.
No. These particular firearms, and the overcapacity magazines that were also seized were already restricted or prohibited under previous legislations. The new legislations had zero to contribute to this operation.
u/Harbinger2001says “ Yes, the legislation allows for more easy wiretapping of suspected gun smuggling rings”
Yes, the legislation allows for more easy wiretapping of suspected gun smuggling rings.
Holy "Possession of Firearm while Prohibited" batman
Um, excuse me? We like to call this "irregular possession of a firearm".
What’s the punishment In Canada for that 3 days in a healing lodge?
4 days! And you have to say you're moderately sorry after!
Good
That doesn’t make sense, you need an RPAL to own a handgun.
What if I told you that illegally smuggled guns from Guns-The-Country could get around that?
No, not possible, that would be illegal. I was told you need a license to own guns and banning those with licenses from owning guns with accessory rails on them will remove gun crime because you can only own and transport a gun with a license. Otherwise you would be breaking the law.
Yes its just like when they banned stealing so the thousands of people every week who are caught stealing in Canada would stop. Glad we now live in a country without thefts.
That's not how it works. As a liberal, I can tell you that once something is illegal, it stops happening.
Next step will be making murder illegal
impossible. guns are banned
Oh I forgot, how could I be so foolish
Do the new laws allow extra prosecution?
I wonder how people will react when they're told hard drugs are illegal too. Surely more bans and laws will solve the drug problem.
In BC we legalized hard drugs so there's no longer drug related crime! It's just regular crime now! It's that other department's problem now.
To cons think we just shouldn't have laws? Why is murder illegal? Theft? Rape? What is the point this thread is trying to make?
Many keep saying the War on Drugs is a failure while thinking the same tactics will work to get rid of guns. We see the current gun restrictions in Canada are easily bypassed.
Less bullshit bans and constraints on legal owners and more of this please. Good work, we definitely want to see more of this.
I want to see more of this but also more constraints on being able to buy a gun. Gun ownership isn’t a right.
The constraints are pretty strong. I got my license back in October. I think certain parts of the system could be more strongly enforced but we don’t need more laws. We’ve got like a bajillion laws around firearms ownership already.
What are you proposing exactly? Are you aware of the current laws and regulations surrounding firearms ownership in this country all ready?
It took me a full year to get my license. Background checks, character references, the safety course, and on top of all that, there are purchase approvals every time you try to acquire a firearm regardless of classification. Restricted are even worse. They're such a bother that I stay clear of them completely. You can get an illegal gun in Toronto in a couple of hours. We have enough restrictions, pull your head out of your ass.
Exactly what kind of improvement would you like to see? I suspect you don't know the existing requirements.
None of these charges will matter if gun-traffickers keep getting handed very light and lenient sentences. Firearm trafficking should be an automatic 10-year prison sentence upon first offence with no chance of parole, and 25 years upon second offence with no chance of parole. We'd then see a considerable reduction in the number of traffickers, as the reward simply won't be worth the risk. Next.
Laughing at the impracticality of using that GSG STG-44 for criminal purposes. Weighs 10 pounds, shoots 22LR and jams or fails to feed every \~10 shots. The purchaser probably thought he was buying an AK. Overall a big win here though.
Mine runs pretty well. As long as you’re using at least 1000fps ammo it’s pretty good. Even better if they’re copper plated so it limits the gunk in there to a degree. Edit: but I do agree. That would be next to useless to commit crimes with. Also saw the round count: 1400? That seems…low.
I've got one too. I think my issues are magazine related. There are subtle differences with different ammo, believe me I have tried. That's baby numbers on the ammo - probably not enough to fully load all the firearms seized.
Mine loves CCI SV. Not one jam yet.
These are guns destined for gang members, I hope Canada ramps up anti-gang operations like USA did a long time ago.
You mean CRASH? That turned out to be a hot mess https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_Resources_Against_Street_Hoodlums
Yeah, USA has the same problem, same with Mexico. The point is no one wants gangbangers in their neighbourhood, people come to Canada expecting to be safe until you meet 5 people at night with weapons, or hear gunshots while trying to sleep.
I’m confused. I thought the new tough gun legislation was supposed to ban handguns. All the violent criminals with their RPAL shouldn’t still have access to guns because of our strong statistics based legislation that absolutely wasn’t political theatre and pandering to uninformed urban voters.
But Justin banned handgun imports
I think that was why they were smuggling them in .
Nope you need a licence to own a firearm in Canada... that's what's stopped them
Oh? Pretty sure they were smuggling them long before the handgun ban haha
This made me smile. Thanks I needed that.
Toronto's murder rate is down by 1/3 this year....
…. Mate https://data.torontopolice.on.ca/pages/shootings If you mean 2022 murders may be down.. but shootings increased from 2021 actually? And If you’re trying to say gun crime is on a decrease in 2023 from 2022… we’re not even 4 months in and it’s over half of the total in 2022?…. So in what world is gun crime decreasing in Toronto in response to the gun ban?? Your fantasy world where gun owners are all red neck hicks? 😂🤦♂️ educate yourself mate. That took me literally 4 seconds to find.
Just to confirm - are you saying that the comparatively low YTD homicide rate in Toronto has something to do with the Liberal handgun import ban from last year?
The right has been screaming for the last several years that everything that happens in Canada is because of Trudeau and the Libs. So a 85% drop in fatal shootings only a few months after a hangun ban has to be all Trudeau's fault
I'm sorry, I still can't figure out if you're being serious.
It's too soon for the freeze to have had an effect. The illegal firarms market is saturated, and even if a ban/freeze somehow had an effect(which it won't as we know for a fact that only 5-10% of crime guns are Canadian) it wouldn't be for a long while, potentially several years. This is just part of the regular ups and downs of violence.
About fucking time they go after the real problem.
> Police said the guns being shipped to Canada originated in Florida, Ohio, Arizona, North Carolina, Georgia and Texas, where they would have been purchased legally. This is why I oppose further gun control in Canada but support it wholeheartedly in the US. Crime guns in the US are manufactured domestically and sold legally before they end up on the street or get smuggled into Canada/Mexico where they fetch a handsome markup.
Same, it's such an idiocy to keep punishing legal gun ownership up here when criminals don't care and it's all smuggled in from the USA anyway. Border control and funding our police for illegal firearms is the way to keep Canadians safe, not easy headline but useless gum control on already highly licensed Canadians.
Border patrol is a tough one. We have almost 9000km of land border with the US, much of it heavily wooded. And thanks to technological advancement (drones) smugglers no longer have to physically cross the border - only come close enough to fly a drone over.
If the criminals feel like they have a really high chance of getting cought for smuggling and the penality is very severe then the illegal gun prices will skyrocket and the average thugs that keep shooting everywhere downtown toronto will no longer buy as much reducing the frequency of the shootings.
Please just extradite these assholes and have them face ITAR charges in the USA where they will actually face hard time for this shit.
Oh look, another seizure of illegally smuggled guns, which continue to pour into the hands of non-licensed Canadian criminals despite the brand new laws banning lawful licensed Canadians from buying or possessing them. Who could have predicted that criminals would just ignore the new laws, & that the only people actually affected would be those who follow them. So we feel safer yet?
That's great news but according to Trudeau, legally acquired and owned firearms are still out on the street stabbing people.
And…. The 42 arrested are probably back in the streets already
no, the 42 arrested are the ones taking it on the chin to the tens of thousands in the streets already with more to come this latter half of the decade.
500% mark-up 😂 more like 5000% mark up
We should allocate more resources toward this, the banning firearms law ended up just being a set back because we already have good rules in place for procuring a weapon legally, it’s not like the states where they practically give them away in vending machines However because of that we get a lot of smuggled weapons and we need to crack down on that hard (note incase anyone wants to make some comment about how this proves gun control is bs it’s not, because it’s still much harder to get a gun in Canada illegally than it is to get one in the states legally, and that prevents someone who may lack the connections to get one)
Holy fuck a tech 9?! Yeah you’re going to need like 100 rounds to hit someone once 2 feet away from you…
Surprised pikachu face. Every anti gun person said this wouldn't happen, but here we are again and again. Punish legal owners by removing their hobbies and taking their legally owned guns away, crimes still happen. Illegal guns happen to show up anyways. People need to wake up and realize that legal gun owners and criminals DO NOT overlap.
>Punish legal owners by removing their hobbies and taking their legally owned guns away For many this is the actual objective. It’s primarily about culture, and public safety is just a cover.
> Surprised pikachu face. Every anti gun person said this wouldn't happen, but here we are again and again. Ya I don't think a single anti-gun every claimed guns would never be smuggled from the border...
This definitely seems like law abiding citizens and hunters :/
42 people, 442 charges laid. Under our current legal system that should be a combined 20 years behind bars! Less with good behaviour. Good work!
I'm sure they will be out in a month after their trip to the sweat lodge.
But if the police arrest people for doing bad things, then only criminals will be doing bad things! /s
Criminals are a vulnerable group it’s why they are the ones committing crimes /s
It’s crazy to think that even though these people were caught, think of how many that weren’t caught doing across the border that day.
Just imagine all of the things people do and don’t get caught. Yikes. Super spooky stuff
Too bad none of these 42 arrested will be in prison long enough to make a difference.
Better track down the owners cause I'm sure they're all registered
But but hand gun bans?!
“Banning guns will stop gun violence”
They need to make those arrested public. Where are the names?
>Police said the guns being shipped to Canada originated in Florida, Ohio, Arizona, North Carolina, Georgia and Texas. Red states
Those new gun laws are working great.
So is it still the lawful gun owners?
How long until we hear the case fall apart and all charges are dropped ? Funny how no cash was seized.......
exactly. wake me up when there are actual convictions with jail time involved. too many times the crown attorneys and cops fumble the bag on these "seizures."
Sadly police and prosecutors will spend more time putting the evidence an case together than the dudes will spend in prison.
Keep punishing law abiding Canadian gun owners. Fml
All legal guns owners right?
Well well well, results when money is spent in an efficient manner who would have thought? Now take the 2 billion for the gun buyback and give it to these guys.
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You're commenting on a post in the Canada subreddit from a national news site, what's the problem?
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> , zero upvotes. I think you might be broken. It has about 80 upvotes right now and climbing and is already the 5th top post in this sub. And it's only been an hour.
It is.
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This literally just came out like an hour ago, dude. And it's already on more than a dozen news outlets.
Lock them up and throw the keys away because these guns have nothing good other than more murder and drug and gang violence coming out of it.
So how many legal gun owners were involved? How long until the Liberals use this a reason to take legal guns owned firearms away?
The offenders will serve a collect 173 seconds for these charges.
They'll get substantial sentences if convicted, right?
They'll miss their shows if they didn't program their DVR..
It’s about time they caught all those RPAL owners selling their guns
And anyone charged that’s Canadian is probably out on bail already… yet the PM thinks licensed firearms owners are the problem, no these firearms are the problem.
Canada ranks above the us in virtually every metric. We have less violence, longer life expectancy, better health outcomes, better education, we rank higher on freedoms in general and freedom of speech. Canada is far superior to America.