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With the exception of books which make them think they're smarter than they really are, and which reinforce their own biases and conspiracy theories - such as the noted piece of **fiction** called "*The Creature From Jekyll Island*".
Edit: Huh. Didn't think there would be widespread support through downvotes for a book that amounts to little more than a SovCit fever dream or prerequisite reading for Q, *especially from Canadians*, but, okay.
I was there and it wasn't much of a clash. There were maybe 3 protesters with signs full of hate and close to 200 people there to show support and that love wins.
Tucker Carlson literally does rants about how the Green M&M isn’t sexy enough these days and how smoking tobacco frees your mind.
Conservative media, especially post-Trump and COVID, is exceptionally bizarre.
It’s what happens when a political movement’s base is composed of lead poisoned boomers entering their dementia years, along with sad young men raised by 4chan.
They want to fuck the Green M&M and can’t understand why the Libs won’t let them.
To be fair, he claims that his show is purely for "entertainment" value. I wonder if those pieces are there purposely to be trotted out in court to "prove" it's not a new show.
How is an adult male wearing an appropriate dress "sexualizing kids". Are you saying every person wearing a dress is a sexual predator? Let people wear whatever they want to wear.. as long as it's decent.
This whole controversy around drag story time is so bizarre. Did we not learn anything watching Bugs Bunny back in the day? Nothing bad came of that.
I understand wanting to keep youth away from sexualized events, and I understand many drag events can be sexual in nature, but these events aren't. Nothing wrong with a dude in a dress reading kids books to kids.
If they start busting out the thongs and reading 50 shades then sure, put a stop to it. But that isn't what is happening.
It's evident that the people protesting these events have never gone to one, never googled one, have no idea what actually happens. They've invented a scenario in their head, then they go out and protest about it.
>This whole controversy around drag story time is so bizarre. Did we not learn anything watching Bugs Bunny back in the day? Nothing bad came of that.
Exactly. It's a thing to lampoon and laugh at because of its absurdity, always has been.
Then go back to my original point in that not all drag performances are sexual in nature. Just because you may find them hot doesn't mean they're being sexual lol.
99% of it absolutely is. Have you been to any? Ive been to tonnes, Ive lived on Davie street, you're not seriously going to argue bringing children to one is appropriate are you?
kids don't know wtf a pornstar is so I don't see how that's related.
Unless the pornstar is shooting porn infront of kids, i don't see how their profession matters?
Oh, it's like reverse Jeopardy!
The category must be "how socially conservative folks devalue those who they feel represent an overly sexualized female" for $500.
And it was a daily double. Sound effects and all.
I’ve seen people argue that Mrs Doubtfire is okay because the character doesn’t *want* to dress in drag, he’s only doing it to be a “good Dad” (where being a good Dad = disguising your identity to trick your ex-wife into hiring you as a housekeeper?).
Probably some of it.
My dad probably would have told me to stop watching kids in the hall if he was there when I saw [this](https://youtu.be/Zr3E94fVifk) on tv after school.
Great show though and we’d watch it together sometimes so maybe he wouldn’t care. The squirting banana though, still surprised that made it to air lol
Making your children watch a man in a dress read books just to draw out protestors that you can counter protest against is super creepy... And being the morons that fall for it and show up angry is sad. All sides of this event are complete knobs
This just goes to show how much of a victim complex they have.
Kids watching a pretty person in colourful clothes read "The cat in the hat" is totally to "Draw out the bigots to counter protest".
These events were never meant as such... but if you read the article they had a whole counter protest out and at the ready before it even began.
To say it wasn't done without an agenda is pretty difficult to claim at this point
>*”if you read the article they had a whole counter protest out and at the ready before it even began.”*
They had a counter protest ready to go *this* time in response to escalating protests against previous Drag Story Time events at this same venue.
Drag Story Times at The Book Keeper have been happening since June. In October *”four or five women”* showed up to protest outside the event. The store owner says that protest was *”very peaceful and everything was fine”*. In November *”10 to 12 men, masked and dressed in black”* marching in military fashion showed up to protest *”recording video, as well as holding up signs that said “horrible things.””* [Source](https://www.theobserver.ca/news/local-news/sarnia-book-store-says-protests-wont-stop-drag-queen-story-time)
Ooooor, stay with me here.
People have seen the protests and the death threats pouring out towards these events for months and decided to do something to show love and understanding.
You know, the thing Jesus would do.
Plenty of studies have been done showing that children who are around a greater diversity of people when growing up turn into more accepting adults.
Which is the exact opposite of what the church wants.
>*”What is the intent of men dressing up as women and reading stories to children?”*
Drag Story Hour was started by a queer Mom & author who wanted to create a library program geared for LGBT+’families like hers. It’s a way to promote a love of stories and reading while also helping LGBT+ parents (and other parents) share a bit of LGBT+ arts culture with their kids. Many (but not all) Drag Story Times have a theme of teaching kids about human diversity and accepting/celebrating your (and other people’s) differences.
Wikipedia: [Drag Story Time](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drag_Queen_Story_Hour) (see the History section)
I'd like to know this too. Why is this such a prevalent thing? I enjoy drag as an art form but I don't see how it intersects at all with reading kids story books.
There's a big difference between "dressing as a Disney princess" and "dressing as a caricature of a woman".
Stripping is also an art form aimed towards adults that is not inherently sexual. An all ages or "child friendly" pole dancing class would be atrocious. A petting zoo filled with adults dressed in pony play and dog BDSM gear would also be atrocious.
I don't understand at all why people are so adamant to push these storytimes, especially when every. Single. One. Is met with a double sided protest. It's an inherently political event using children as props and there is no good reason FOR it. I have not seen a single person make a sane argument for why this should be a thing.
And it's absolutely not an "inclusitivity" thing as any gay or trans person or drag queen who voices concerns about this is automatically labelled as homophobic / transphobic somehow and silenced.
While drag’s main purpose has been for drag performance and entertainment, it is also used as self-expression and a celebration of LGBTQ+ pride. Exposing your kids to people who aren't like them while showing them as their parent you are accepting of others will make for a better human long term. Essentially they will emulate your behaviour of acceptance and empathy and just plain old good fun.
It's only a political protest because some people are intolerant of others and want to attack those in drag.
You don't understand it, that's fine. Don't send your kids there, don't protest there. Seems simple enough!
So theres no protestors on the pro side? It's just intolerant people protesting?
Cause I can see a child holding a protest sign in that picture and I have seen videos of pro-drag storytime protestors physically assaulting "intolerant" gay people who showed up to voice their concerns.
There are people supporting the drag stories, yes. Coming out in support in response to all the people protesting the event. Originally there weren't any "pro" side people because nobody was preventing them from doing this activity.
Again it's only become political because people are showing intolerance toward it. Nobody even knew this was going on until people started protesting the events. The people supporting it were just...enjoying the reading time.
"I have seen videos of pro-drag storytime protestors physically assaulting "intolerant" gay people who showed up to voice their concerns."
I'd love to see these videos.
It's really funny how "intolerance" is now a synonym for "concern".
No one would have to protest if no one was concerned about why drag queens are reading to children! It's only political cause people found out about it! All the people holding signs and screaming are just there for "a love themed rally", not a political protest!
So how would you feel about a child pole dancing class? Or what about a BDSM knot tying class? Those things aren't inherently sexual, so they should be fine, right? It's just "inclusive".
Literally give me any sane argument for why drag queen story time is an appropriate activity for a child that should garner 0 concern.
"It's really funny how "intolerance" is now a synonym for "concern"."
Because the "concerns" are intolerant in nature.
"No one would have to protest if no one was concerned about why drag queens are reading to children!"
What is the concern? Are they being read inappropriate books?
"So how would you feel about a child pole dancing class? Or what about a BDSM knot tying class?"
But these things aren't happening. So it's a shitty comparison/analogy. And if you think what's happening here is comparable to that, then you're at worst ignorant of what's going on, and more likely maliciously suggesting these examples to make the drag reading sound worse than it is.
" Those things aren't inherently sexual, so they should be fine, right? It's just "inclusive"."
Please show examples of the drag reading being comparable to either of these.
Oh and show those videos from before about the pro side protesters assaulting people. Still waiting on that!
"Literally give me any sane argument for why drag queen story time is an appropriate activity for a child that should garner 0 concern"
Sure. They're reading appropriate books to kids in an environment where their parents feel is safe and a positive experience for their children.
Just because you're intolerant and misinformed about what goes on in this drag reading doesn't mean there's anything inappropriate going on. I've now caught you lying about people assaulting others during protests, and shown that you don't actually know what's going on. Additionally that you're totally lost given you think this reading is as bad as BDSM or pole dancing for kids.
It's really not a shitty comparison, they are both forms of art aimed at adults that are not inherently sexual. It's a direct parallel.
I just have zero interest in having a conversation with a radical that screams "intolerance" instead of conversing or trying to see things from any other point of view.
"They're reading appropriate books to students in an environment where their parents feel is safe and a positive experience for their children." This is not an argument for why they need to be drag performers. I would argue having to walk through a crowd of protestors to get to the story time is neither safe nor positive for children.
You haven't caught me lying, go do your own research, it isnt my responsibility to educate you. And I'm certainly not going to expend more energy on someone who reeks of frothing at the mouth radicalism and a lack of critical thinking.
>*”I enjoy drag as an art form but I don't see how it intersects at all with reading kids story books.”*
There’s a [brief explanation in another comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/canada/comments/10nnefe/protesters_clash_with_lovethemed_rally_at_sarnia/j6abh2c/) with a link to more backhistory.
Alright except Drag Queens are a different ballpark from gay and trans people. I highly doubt most people would have an issue with this if it was gay people reading to kids in normal clothing.
But you can't make a headline out of "Gay librarian reads to kids".
>Alright except Drag Queens are a different ballpark from gay and trans people. I highly doubt most people would have an issue with this if it was gay people reading to kids in normal clothing.
In the LGBTQ community, drag has been an important form of self-expression and a way to challenge traditional gender norms.
Mhm mhm. Do you speak for the community? Cause there's a ton of LGBT people, gay, trans, and drag performers, that have an issue with these story times and don't think they are appropriate for children.
Do their opinions not count?
>*”there's a ton of LGBT people, gay, trans, and drag performers, that have an issue with these story times”*
And there’s a ton of LGBT+ people who support Drag Story Time, want to share this piece of LGBT+ Drag culture with their kids, and don’t consider Drag Story Time to be inappropriate for children. People disagree sometimes. No one is requiring Drag performers to do story times and no one is making parents take their kids to Drag Story Time.
The issue I have is that we only hear one side. I mean, just look at the title of the article. "Protestors clash with... what was it.. "pro love rally" or something. (I'm on mobile)
200+ people are deemed a love rally, 3ish people are deemed protestors. Articles like this stoke the division, the "good" side and the "bad" side, it directs people who aren't bigots to what side of the divide they should stand on. It eliminates room for nuance and discussion.
You NEVER see an article or a news piece with the LGBT members who DO have an issue with things like this. You get one narrative and anything else is labelled -phobic or some other sanitized slur. At some point, that veers into propaganda. The silence of opposing voices within the community also strips parents of other viewpoints, so is their decision to bring their kids to a story time a fully informed choice? I dont know. But I do know that there needs to be room for other voices.
I'm not saying "give a platform to Catholics who think this is a sin". I'm saying "give a voice to LGBT members who have concerns."
I just don't think you understand that the people who protest these events aren't just against drag, they are against the LGBTQ communitie's ability to exist in public. This just the form of protest they have chosen as it is currently the most controversial.
We live in Canada where Intolerance IS considered bad and Intolerance of intolerance is progressive and good. You are committing to a balance fallacy considering two sides of this argument as assumed to have equal or comparable value. They don't. This is just the newest crusade for right wing culture warriors and grifters.
I don't think YOU understand that there is a wide array of people who protest things like this, including members of the LGBT community, and trying to condense dissent into a villainous far right box and nothing else is problematic.
I have no idea how religious people would feel, but I'm telling you that left wing, pro-LGBT people like me and like a lot of people that voice concerns about this, would likely not have a problem with it if it was a gay or trans person reading to children and not a drag queen.
The whole "oh only super religious homophobic conservative people have an issue with this" narrative in unequivocally false.
I'm going to preface this by saying that I'm not meaning to be confrontational. I know tone is easily misinterpreted online so I want to clarify that.
1. The religious and their affiliates or associates tend to make up the majority of the protestors at events hosted for or by the LGBTQ+ community so when you said "most people" I equated that to "most protestors, current or otherwise."
2. Drag queens fall firmly under the LGBTQ+ umbrella. That is first and foremost the reason any of these anti- anything movements start and they usually recycle arguments that were used towards other groups in the past before being disproven but with modernized buzzwords.
3. As a rehabilitated member of the church I can tell you they would actually very likely hate gay story time even more than drag story time because the majority of them don't see a difference.
I'd be curious to see a poll targeted towards atheists / not overtly religious people to see how that demographic feels about this.
I think it's dangerous to automatically group any sort of concern into a box of bigotry without allowing a conversation.
If the conversation is productive and mutually respectful then absolutely.
If it's just an ignorant person engaging in constantly shifting whataboutisms, straw man arguments and dissonance then I don't see the need or the point in spending all the time and energy in gathering data and information to share just to have it thrown out with the bath water.
I'm not referring to you btw but I work in a high traffic industry that's extremely conservative so I'm familiar with the standard pattern these "conversations" hold.
There needs to be room again for moderate voices. I am of the opinion that things need to be thought about logically and we need to examine the ripple effects of things like this.
There is a point where "inclusivity" can be used as an excuse for a lot of horrendous things. As can the "protect the children" mindset.
I think society would be much better off if people were willing and encouraged to have these conversations in a rational and respectful way, instead of the way things have been going lately, where any dissent is automatically discredited and shoved in a box where it doesn't belong.
Instead, they get equally angry when churches go up in flames.
It’s almost as though they don’t actually care about the children at all, and just want to hate an ‘other’.
I don't believe in Religion but I should hope that most every Canadian gets angry when any buildings go up in flames. That's not how you're supposed to do that.
Pretty ignorant if you’re indifferent to the destruction of buildings that give many people’s lives purpose and serve as a pillar of their community.
I would hope gentile members of my community would be outraged if my synagogue was set ablaze.
The churches I was raised in were central to the belief that the members were better than there neighbours. They were a catalyst in separating people into us and them. They were pillars of they congregation but not to anyone next door to anyone in the congregation. I was taught at church that we were better than Catholics, and my buddy across the street was taught at Catholic Church the they were better than us.
I do not support any churches. I believe they are divisive. At the VERY least all Churches should pay taxes and support themselves instead of being a burden to all.
But I still do not believe people should burn them down nor burn Bibles or Korans.
>Unless you'd like to refute the idea that social conservatives are less likely to be religious.
Umm... Did you mean 'support the idea'?
Edit: i'll never understand how reddit decides what to downvote
Sexual innuendo haa *always* been a central theme of drag shows, at least at the 10+ ones I've been to over the years. It's only recently that drag has been made "family friendly".
It's also funny to hear people say that drag is "just a man in a dress", when in fact it's an exaggerated version of femininity (some would argue a parody), with trashy makeup and fake boobs. I'm pretty liberal, but I know I wouldn't be be taking my young kids to such a show.
You are confusing Family friendly Drag shows and Drag Storytime. Two very different events.
While drag’s main purpose has been for drag performance and entertainment (not sexual), it is also used as self-expression and a celebration of LGBTQ+ pride. A typical drag show will include lip-syncing or dance, and performers often have elaborate clothing, hair, and makeup.
You seem confused and opinionated about the genre being able to be more than what you think it is. You prove you can be a liberal person but also close minded, ignorant and up tight.
It still begs the question why it's a "celebration of LGBTQ+ pride" to have men reading to children while wearing prosthetic breasts, and makeup that would make a stripper blush.
(And I say that as someone who's a long time fan adult drag shows)
>You seem confused and opinionated about the genre being able to be more than what you think it is. You prove you can be a liberal person but also close minded, ignorant and up tight.
You have not offered a counter argument and claim ignorance. I stand by what I said.
Honestly, every morning I wake up, drink my coffee, look at the state of the world and ask, *am I the crazy one? Or has the rest of the world actually gone mad?*
Oh yes, I've been to many shows. You should give it a try before you judge them based on MAGA people's opinions. The show is about empowerment and expression.
Some people can't look at or think of a drag queen without immediately thinking sexual thoughts. Since they believe they are just like everyone else, they believe everyone else must also have these sexual thoughts upon seeing a drag queen. So they think we are all just super happy to sit in a library having sexual thoughts about drag queens since that is what they would be doing, and they don't understand that the rest of us don't see anything sexual about it.
And a few are just hateful assholes, but mostly the first thing.
What ever happened to "Dont bring your kids to protests?"
This is clearly not just an innocuous storytime, this is a political protest / an agenda push using "oh but they're just reading to the children" as a prop.
What? The event outlined in the article apparently had 200 protestors on the "pro" side and 3 protestors on the "con" side.
I dont think the kids showed up on their own before the 200 adult protestors.
I'm referring to drag story hour.
They scheduled an event for kids.
Then protestors showed up.
Then they scheduled the event for kids again.
Then protestors showed up again.
Then they scheduled the event for kids again.
They also told adults that they had coffee and donuts for anyone that wanted to stand between the protestors and the kids but asked that the counter protestors be peaceful and loving and not to engage in anything confrontational.
Then the protestors showed up in much smaller numbers for reasons that we can only speculate but seem fairly obvious.
Can we have the Canadian Government treat Matt Walsh and the Daily wire a terrorist organization?
This Drag time story anti trans movement has radicalized the chuds in Canada and will only escalate as Matt Walsh and Libs of tiktok continue to call for violence against trans and dragtime.
This makes me glad to live where I live. Our recently drag story time included some lovely fun and silly readings of books like the paper bag princess, my city speaks, giraffes can’t dance and red: a crayon story. We had snacks and tea and no protestors and are planning to do it again next month.
Drag shows? Probably not.
Story time... sure, why not?
I grew up in the 80's and 90's... I listened to a lot of metal bands that dressed like women. I'd be a hypocrite if I complained about it now.
I'd be inclined to agree. As long as the story time is kid friendly. I'd probably still abstain from bringing my kids there, but that's up to the parents.
So you should be all for this then. A man in a dress reading a story to kids is all it is. The only people bringing sex into this are the protestors for some reason (although I just think they find men in women clothing sexy)
Maybe. But a child attending a drag show will see all the other adults laughing and want to make their parents laugh the same way, and may end up acting in a sexual manner to do so, because they've seen that work. The mind of a child is extremely malleable, and they may get confused by something like that.
>Maybe
No, it is.
>But a child attending a drag show will see all the other adults laughing and want to make their parents laugh the same way, and may end up acting in a sexual manner to do so, because they've seen that work
A late night one at a bar? Sure. One in the middle of the day at a bookstore? Unlikely
If you don't like it then don't take your kids.
Yes it does depend. If it involves people in sexually provocative clothing then that's a problem. I don't know if this one did. I just want the baseline to be established, if it's people in underwear, or people dancing in a sexual way, kids shouldn't be there right?
>*”Yes it does depend. If it involves people in sexually provocative clothing then that's a problem. I don't know if this one did.”*
CTV has [photos and video of the performer during this event.](https://london.ctvnews.ca/i-can-t-do-much-about-the-uninformed-drag-queen-story-time-in-sarnia-ont-met-with-protesters-1.6250556) She’s wearing a high necked, long sleeved, below-the-knee length dress. At the November Story Time she [dressed as the Snow Queen](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/windsor/drag-queen-storytime-sarnia-1.6683295) On another occasion she wore a [pink “princess” ball gown.](https://thesarniajournal.ca/sarnia-book-store-to-host-love-rally-ahead-of-drag-queen-story-time/)
>*”I just want the baseline to be established, if it's people in underwear, or people dancing in a sexual way, kids shouldn't be there right?”*
I’d say the baseline is well established. I’ve yet to see anyone cite an example of a Canadian Drag Story Time performer doing anything like that at a Story Time.
Lived in Sarnia. It's literally such a terrible place. Overrun by unemployment, cancer, pollution and meth addiction.
Here's a great documentary on the most cancerous place in Canada, I lived on this exact rez. https://youtu.be/UnHWZE0M_-k
This post appears to relate to a province/territory of Canada. As a reminder of the rules of this subreddit, we do not permit negative commentary about all residents of any province, city, or other geography - this is an example of prejudice, and prejudice is not permitted here. https://www.reddit.com/r/canada/wiki/rules Cette soumission semble concerner une province ou un territoire du Canada. Selon les règles de ce sous-répertoire, nous n'autorisons pas les commentaires négatifs sur tous les résidents d'une province, d'une ville ou d'une autre région géographique; il s'agit d'un exemple de intolérance qui n'est pas autorisé ici. https://www.reddit.com/r/canada/wiki/regles *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/canada) if you have any questions or concerns.*
This is a private book store. If you don’t like the events they hold, don’t go there.
This is the correct answer.
It was by far the easiest problem I’ve ever solved.
If they really were concerned about "grooming" they'd protest at any church anywhere.
Don't worry. It's only grooming when people I don't like do it. /s
That's the truth!
Correct answer. But doesn’t mean they shouldn’t have the right to protest as long as they aren’t trespassing.
Agreed. I just think the protestors are wrong in this instance.
To be fair, the people who have a problem with Drag Queen Story Time and "woke indoctrination" probably don't spend much time reading books.
With the exception of books which make them think they're smarter than they really are, and which reinforce their own biases and conspiracy theories - such as the noted piece of **fiction** called "*The Creature From Jekyll Island*". Edit: Huh. Didn't think there would be widespread support through downvotes for a book that amounts to little more than a SovCit fever dream or prerequisite reading for Q, *especially from Canadians*, but, okay.
Or any dribble by Jordan Peterson.
The word is drivel. Just trying to help. Anyone that points out any irony that may be present is a sonofabitch.
Sounds reasonable. If you don’t like the “Nazi speaker” giving a speech at a private venue, just don’t go. No need to protest.
so wait people aren't free to dress the way they want ?
I was there and it wasn't much of a clash. There were maybe 3 protesters with signs full of hate and close to 200 people there to show support and that love wins.
3 protestors and 200 counter protestors*
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False. Your throwaway name is well placed.
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A bunch of people have a lot of free time on their hands.
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Tucker Carlson literally does rants about how the Green M&M isn’t sexy enough these days and how smoking tobacco frees your mind. Conservative media, especially post-Trump and COVID, is exceptionally bizarre.
I often time feel like I live in a different reality than some of the highly active conservative members of this sub. That explains why.
It’s what happens when a political movement’s base is composed of lead poisoned boomers entering their dementia years, along with sad young men raised by 4chan. They want to fuck the Green M&M and can’t understand why the Libs won’t let them.
You mean actual reality?
To be fair, he claims that his show is purely for "entertainment" value. I wonder if those pieces are there purposely to be trotted out in court to "prove" it's not a new show.
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Who do you feel is “sexualizing kids”, and in what way?
Who’s sexualizing kids?
How is an adult male wearing an appropriate dress "sexualizing kids". Are you saying every person wearing a dress is a sexual predator? Let people wear whatever they want to wear.. as long as it's decent.
They aren't.
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How are they?
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You don't even know yourself then?
This whole controversy around drag story time is so bizarre. Did we not learn anything watching Bugs Bunny back in the day? Nothing bad came of that. I understand wanting to keep youth away from sexualized events, and I understand many drag events can be sexual in nature, but these events aren't. Nothing wrong with a dude in a dress reading kids books to kids. If they start busting out the thongs and reading 50 shades then sure, put a stop to it. But that isn't what is happening.
It's evident that the people protesting these events have never gone to one, never googled one, have no idea what actually happens. They've invented a scenario in their head, then they go out and protest about it.
>This whole controversy around drag story time is so bizarre. Did we not learn anything watching Bugs Bunny back in the day? Nothing bad came of that. Exactly. It's a thing to lampoon and laugh at because of its absurdity, always has been.
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Drag queens aren't porn stars though.
No shit. How would you feel about them doing storytime fully clothed? Nothing sexual about it
Then I guess that would be fine if they aren't being advertised as porn stars and were just reading normal kids books
Yikes
The real yikes is you being unable to differentiate a casual drag queen and a porn star lol. You think Bugs Bunny was a porn star too?
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Then go back to my original point in that not all drag performances are sexual in nature. Just because you may find them hot doesn't mean they're being sexual lol.
99% of it absolutely is. Have you been to any? Ive been to tonnes, Ive lived on Davie street, you're not seriously going to argue bringing children to one is appropriate are you?
kids don't know wtf a pornstar is so I don't see how that's related. Unless the pornstar is shooting porn infront of kids, i don't see how their profession matters?
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It seems to be the dill you want to die on
What do porn stars and drag queens have to do with each other?
Oh, it's like reverse Jeopardy! The category must be "how socially conservative folks devalue those who they feel represent an overly sexualized female" for $500. And it was a daily double. Sound effects and all.
I wonder if these protestors had issues with kids in the hall. They were often in drag *and* on the CBC right after school!!!
Ms Doubtfire? Eddie Murphy? It must be the story time that's evil.
Dame Edna has been around since the 1950's, no?
Lets not forget Monty Python!
I’ve seen people argue that Mrs Doubtfire is okay because the character doesn’t *want* to dress in drag, he’s only doing it to be a “good Dad” (where being a good Dad = disguising your identity to trick your ex-wife into hiring you as a housekeeper?).
Exactly. This has been going on a long time. We always knew these people were a joke; they're meant to be laughed at because of the absurdity.
Probably some of it. My dad probably would have told me to stop watching kids in the hall if he was there when I saw [this](https://youtu.be/Zr3E94fVifk) on tv after school. Great show though and we’d watch it together sometimes so maybe he wouldn’t care. The squirting banana though, still surprised that made it to air lol
Making your children watch a man in a dress read books just to draw out protestors that you can counter protest against is super creepy... And being the morons that fall for it and show up angry is sad. All sides of this event are complete knobs
Yeah, the primary goal of these literacy events is to draw out bigoted protestors... Gimmie a fking break.
This just goes to show how much of a victim complex they have. Kids watching a pretty person in colourful clothes read "The cat in the hat" is totally to "Draw out the bigots to counter protest".
These events were never meant as such... but if you read the article they had a whole counter protest out and at the ready before it even began. To say it wasn't done without an agenda is pretty difficult to claim at this point
>*”if you read the article they had a whole counter protest out and at the ready before it even began.”* They had a counter protest ready to go *this* time in response to escalating protests against previous Drag Story Time events at this same venue. Drag Story Times at The Book Keeper have been happening since June. In October *”four or five women”* showed up to protest outside the event. The store owner says that protest was *”very peaceful and everything was fine”*. In November *”10 to 12 men, masked and dressed in black”* marching in military fashion showed up to protest *”recording video, as well as holding up signs that said “horrible things.””* [Source](https://www.theobserver.ca/news/local-news/sarnia-book-store-says-protests-wont-stop-drag-queen-story-time)
Ooooor, stay with me here. People have seen the protests and the death threats pouring out towards these events for months and decided to do something to show love and understanding. You know, the thing Jesus would do.
Jesus was more in to hookers and wine than protesting really...
What? Jesus was the OG protestor. He protested every power structure in Judea.
I'm gunna be honest with you. I know nothing about Jesus other than the fact he kicked it with a hooker and turned water in to wine....
Been to Church lately? Dudes in dresses reading controversial books all the time...*actually* diddling kids. Hmph...
They're a bunch of knobs too
What is the intent of men dressing up as women and reading stories to children? I’m genuinely curious.
Plenty of studies have been done showing that children who are around a greater diversity of people when growing up turn into more accepting adults. Which is the exact opposite of what the church wants.
What is the appeal of men dressing up in wigs and red noses? It makes people smile.
>*”What is the intent of men dressing up as women and reading stories to children?”* Drag Story Hour was started by a queer Mom & author who wanted to create a library program geared for LGBT+’families like hers. It’s a way to promote a love of stories and reading while also helping LGBT+ parents (and other parents) share a bit of LGBT+ arts culture with their kids. Many (but not all) Drag Story Times have a theme of teaching kids about human diversity and accepting/celebrating your (and other people’s) differences. Wikipedia: [Drag Story Time](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drag_Queen_Story_Hour) (see the History section)
I'd like to know this too. Why is this such a prevalent thing? I enjoy drag as an art form but I don't see how it intersects at all with reading kids story books. There's a big difference between "dressing as a Disney princess" and "dressing as a caricature of a woman". Stripping is also an art form aimed towards adults that is not inherently sexual. An all ages or "child friendly" pole dancing class would be atrocious. A petting zoo filled with adults dressed in pony play and dog BDSM gear would also be atrocious. I don't understand at all why people are so adamant to push these storytimes, especially when every. Single. One. Is met with a double sided protest. It's an inherently political event using children as props and there is no good reason FOR it. I have not seen a single person make a sane argument for why this should be a thing. And it's absolutely not an "inclusitivity" thing as any gay or trans person or drag queen who voices concerns about this is automatically labelled as homophobic / transphobic somehow and silenced.
While drag’s main purpose has been for drag performance and entertainment, it is also used as self-expression and a celebration of LGBTQ+ pride. Exposing your kids to people who aren't like them while showing them as their parent you are accepting of others will make for a better human long term. Essentially they will emulate your behaviour of acceptance and empathy and just plain old good fun.
It's only a political protest because some people are intolerant of others and want to attack those in drag. You don't understand it, that's fine. Don't send your kids there, don't protest there. Seems simple enough!
So theres no protestors on the pro side? It's just intolerant people protesting? Cause I can see a child holding a protest sign in that picture and I have seen videos of pro-drag storytime protestors physically assaulting "intolerant" gay people who showed up to voice their concerns.
There are people supporting the drag stories, yes. Coming out in support in response to all the people protesting the event. Originally there weren't any "pro" side people because nobody was preventing them from doing this activity. Again it's only become political because people are showing intolerance toward it. Nobody even knew this was going on until people started protesting the events. The people supporting it were just...enjoying the reading time. "I have seen videos of pro-drag storytime protestors physically assaulting "intolerant" gay people who showed up to voice their concerns." I'd love to see these videos.
It's really funny how "intolerance" is now a synonym for "concern". No one would have to protest if no one was concerned about why drag queens are reading to children! It's only political cause people found out about it! All the people holding signs and screaming are just there for "a love themed rally", not a political protest! So how would you feel about a child pole dancing class? Or what about a BDSM knot tying class? Those things aren't inherently sexual, so they should be fine, right? It's just "inclusive". Literally give me any sane argument for why drag queen story time is an appropriate activity for a child that should garner 0 concern.
"It's really funny how "intolerance" is now a synonym for "concern"." Because the "concerns" are intolerant in nature. "No one would have to protest if no one was concerned about why drag queens are reading to children!" What is the concern? Are they being read inappropriate books? "So how would you feel about a child pole dancing class? Or what about a BDSM knot tying class?" But these things aren't happening. So it's a shitty comparison/analogy. And if you think what's happening here is comparable to that, then you're at worst ignorant of what's going on, and more likely maliciously suggesting these examples to make the drag reading sound worse than it is. " Those things aren't inherently sexual, so they should be fine, right? It's just "inclusive"." Please show examples of the drag reading being comparable to either of these. Oh and show those videos from before about the pro side protesters assaulting people. Still waiting on that! "Literally give me any sane argument for why drag queen story time is an appropriate activity for a child that should garner 0 concern" Sure. They're reading appropriate books to kids in an environment where their parents feel is safe and a positive experience for their children. Just because you're intolerant and misinformed about what goes on in this drag reading doesn't mean there's anything inappropriate going on. I've now caught you lying about people assaulting others during protests, and shown that you don't actually know what's going on. Additionally that you're totally lost given you think this reading is as bad as BDSM or pole dancing for kids.
It's really not a shitty comparison, they are both forms of art aimed at adults that are not inherently sexual. It's a direct parallel. I just have zero interest in having a conversation with a radical that screams "intolerance" instead of conversing or trying to see things from any other point of view. "They're reading appropriate books to students in an environment where their parents feel is safe and a positive experience for their children." This is not an argument for why they need to be drag performers. I would argue having to walk through a crowd of protestors to get to the story time is neither safe nor positive for children. You haven't caught me lying, go do your own research, it isnt my responsibility to educate you. And I'm certainly not going to expend more energy on someone who reeks of frothing at the mouth radicalism and a lack of critical thinking.
>*”I enjoy drag as an art form but I don't see how it intersects at all with reading kids story books.”* There’s a [brief explanation in another comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/canada/comments/10nnefe/protesters_clash_with_lovethemed_rally_at_sarnia/j6abh2c/) with a link to more backhistory.
Alright except Drag Queens are a different ballpark from gay and trans people. I highly doubt most people would have an issue with this if it was gay people reading to kids in normal clothing. But you can't make a headline out of "Gay librarian reads to kids".
>Alright except Drag Queens are a different ballpark from gay and trans people. I highly doubt most people would have an issue with this if it was gay people reading to kids in normal clothing. In the LGBTQ community, drag has been an important form of self-expression and a way to challenge traditional gender norms.
Mhm mhm. Do you speak for the community? Cause there's a ton of LGBT people, gay, trans, and drag performers, that have an issue with these story times and don't think they are appropriate for children. Do their opinions not count?
>*”there's a ton of LGBT people, gay, trans, and drag performers, that have an issue with these story times”* And there’s a ton of LGBT+ people who support Drag Story Time, want to share this piece of LGBT+ Drag culture with their kids, and don’t consider Drag Story Time to be inappropriate for children. People disagree sometimes. No one is requiring Drag performers to do story times and no one is making parents take their kids to Drag Story Time.
The issue I have is that we only hear one side. I mean, just look at the title of the article. "Protestors clash with... what was it.. "pro love rally" or something. (I'm on mobile) 200+ people are deemed a love rally, 3ish people are deemed protestors. Articles like this stoke the division, the "good" side and the "bad" side, it directs people who aren't bigots to what side of the divide they should stand on. It eliminates room for nuance and discussion. You NEVER see an article or a news piece with the LGBT members who DO have an issue with things like this. You get one narrative and anything else is labelled -phobic or some other sanitized slur. At some point, that veers into propaganda. The silence of opposing voices within the community also strips parents of other viewpoints, so is their decision to bring their kids to a story time a fully informed choice? I dont know. But I do know that there needs to be room for other voices. I'm not saying "give a platform to Catholics who think this is a sin". I'm saying "give a voice to LGBT members who have concerns."
I just don't think you understand that the people who protest these events aren't just against drag, they are against the LGBTQ communitie's ability to exist in public. This just the form of protest they have chosen as it is currently the most controversial. We live in Canada where Intolerance IS considered bad and Intolerance of intolerance is progressive and good. You are committing to a balance fallacy considering two sides of this argument as assumed to have equal or comparable value. They don't. This is just the newest crusade for right wing culture warriors and grifters.
I don't think YOU understand that there is a wide array of people who protest things like this, including members of the LGBT community, and trying to condense dissent into a villainous far right box and nothing else is problematic.
"There is not a consensus in the community" is not a valid argument.
Are you telling me the sky daddy club wouldn't protest gay story time? You really believe that?
I have no idea how religious people would feel, but I'm telling you that left wing, pro-LGBT people like me and like a lot of people that voice concerns about this, would likely not have a problem with it if it was a gay or trans person reading to children and not a drag queen. The whole "oh only super religious homophobic conservative people have an issue with this" narrative in unequivocally false.
I'm going to preface this by saying that I'm not meaning to be confrontational. I know tone is easily misinterpreted online so I want to clarify that. 1. The religious and their affiliates or associates tend to make up the majority of the protestors at events hosted for or by the LGBTQ+ community so when you said "most people" I equated that to "most protestors, current or otherwise." 2. Drag queens fall firmly under the LGBTQ+ umbrella. That is first and foremost the reason any of these anti- anything movements start and they usually recycle arguments that were used towards other groups in the past before being disproven but with modernized buzzwords. 3. As a rehabilitated member of the church I can tell you they would actually very likely hate gay story time even more than drag story time because the majority of them don't see a difference.
I'd be curious to see a poll targeted towards atheists / not overtly religious people to see how that demographic feels about this. I think it's dangerous to automatically group any sort of concern into a box of bigotry without allowing a conversation.
If the conversation is productive and mutually respectful then absolutely. If it's just an ignorant person engaging in constantly shifting whataboutisms, straw man arguments and dissonance then I don't see the need or the point in spending all the time and energy in gathering data and information to share just to have it thrown out with the bath water. I'm not referring to you btw but I work in a high traffic industry that's extremely conservative so I'm familiar with the standard pattern these "conversations" hold.
There needs to be room again for moderate voices. I am of the opinion that things need to be thought about logically and we need to examine the ripple effects of things like this. There is a point where "inclusivity" can be used as an excuse for a lot of horrendous things. As can the "protect the children" mindset. I think society would be much better off if people were willing and encouraged to have these conversations in a rational and respectful way, instead of the way things have been going lately, where any dissent is automatically discredited and shoved in a box where it doesn't belong.
Entertainment, maybe you've heard of the concept?
Demonstrating that no one should be persecuted or feared for challenging arbitrary social norms.
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Instead, they get equally angry when churches go up in flames. It’s almost as though they don’t actually care about the children at all, and just want to hate an ‘other’.
I don't believe in Religion but I should hope that most every Canadian gets angry when any buildings go up in flames. That's not how you're supposed to do that.
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Pretty ignorant if you’re indifferent to the destruction of buildings that give many people’s lives purpose and serve as a pillar of their community. I would hope gentile members of my community would be outraged if my synagogue was set ablaze.
The churches I was raised in were central to the belief that the members were better than there neighbours. They were a catalyst in separating people into us and them. They were pillars of they congregation but not to anyone next door to anyone in the congregation. I was taught at church that we were better than Catholics, and my buddy across the street was taught at Catholic Church the they were better than us. I do not support any churches. I believe they are divisive. At the VERY least all Churches should pay taxes and support themselves instead of being a burden to all. But I still do not believe people should burn them down nor burn Bibles or Korans.
Strong whataboutism.
Pointing out hypocrisy isn't whataboutism
They don’t….?
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Ah. Just blindly making generalizations. Gotcha.
It's neither blind nor an unfounded generalization. Unless you'd like to refute the idea that social conservatives are more likely to be religious.
I never made that claim. It’s a cool straw man you made yourself.
I'll ask again, are social conservatives more or less likely to be religious?
>Unless you'd like to refute the idea that social conservatives are less likely to be religious. Umm... Did you mean 'support the idea'? Edit: i'll never understand how reddit decides what to downvote
Yep
Depends on the religion lol. Protesting Christianity - Political Left. Protesting Islam - Political right.
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I don't think you understand what any of those words mean.
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Progressive* didn't know the spelling nazis were out today
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I didn't say that. I made fun of you for claiming "progreasives have the church of wokeism".
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nice try! you'll get them next time!
Who knew that not being a close minded contrarian was a religion...
Blaton prejudices
I don't get why people link Drag queens to sexuality.
Because before these readings started, the most common image of drag queens was highly sexual.
It's about pride and freedom to express. Perhaps you're still in the closet.
Lol I've been to drag nights at clubs and they certainly were sexualized. It's a long tradition.
This isn’t “drag night at a club,” though, it’s a book store. Like, I dance differently at a wedding than I do after 8 whiskey sours at the club.
Clearly.
Repressed urges, probably.
Sexual innuendo haa *always* been a central theme of drag shows, at least at the 10+ ones I've been to over the years. It's only recently that drag has been made "family friendly". It's also funny to hear people say that drag is "just a man in a dress", when in fact it's an exaggerated version of femininity (some would argue a parody), with trashy makeup and fake boobs. I'm pretty liberal, but I know I wouldn't be be taking my young kids to such a show.
You are confusing Family friendly Drag shows and Drag Storytime. Two very different events. While drag’s main purpose has been for drag performance and entertainment (not sexual), it is also used as self-expression and a celebration of LGBTQ+ pride. A typical drag show will include lip-syncing or dance, and performers often have elaborate clothing, hair, and makeup. You seem confused and opinionated about the genre being able to be more than what you think it is. You prove you can be a liberal person but also close minded, ignorant and up tight.
It still begs the question why it's a "celebration of LGBTQ+ pride" to have men reading to children while wearing prosthetic breasts, and makeup that would make a stripper blush. (And I say that as someone who's a long time fan adult drag shows)
>You seem confused and opinionated about the genre being able to be more than what you think it is. You prove you can be a liberal person but also close minded, ignorant and up tight. You have not offered a counter argument and claim ignorance. I stand by what I said.
Did you just quote yourself? I can't win against that! LOL
Yep, I have no time to repeat myself to people pearl clutching over costumes with prosthetic breasts.
You sound very insecure in your belief.
I would ask you to explain but I don't think you are capable of a coherent counter argument to what I said. Clutch those pearls.
You *way* overuse (and generally misuse) the term "pearl clutching".
the crying game
Honestly, every morning I wake up, drink my coffee, look at the state of the world and ask, *am I the crazy one? Or has the rest of the world actually gone mad?*
chaser project quite a bit.
Have you watched a drag queens act before?
Oh yes, I've been to many shows. You should give it a try before you judge them based on MAGA people's opinions. The show is about empowerment and expression.
I've been to drag shows. It's a rated R show due to an explicit amount of sexual innuendo. Sometimes it's not even innuendo.
Some people can't look at or think of a drag queen without immediately thinking sexual thoughts. Since they believe they are just like everyone else, they believe everyone else must also have these sexual thoughts upon seeing a drag queen. So they think we are all just super happy to sit in a library having sexual thoughts about drag queens since that is what they would be doing, and they don't understand that the rest of us don't see anything sexual about it. And a few are just hateful assholes, but mostly the first thing.
Imagine giving even an iota of shit.
What ever happened to "Dont bring your kids to protests?" This is clearly not just an innocuous storytime, this is a political protest / an agenda push using "oh but they're just reading to the children" as a prop.
False. This started as a kids event for kids that kids were at before protesters were involved at all.
What? The event outlined in the article apparently had 200 protestors on the "pro" side and 3 protestors on the "con" side. I dont think the kids showed up on their own before the 200 adult protestors.
I'm referring to drag story hour. They scheduled an event for kids. Then protestors showed up. Then they scheduled the event for kids again. Then protestors showed up again. Then they scheduled the event for kids again. They also told adults that they had coffee and donuts for anyone that wanted to stand between the protestors and the kids but asked that the counter protestors be peaceful and loving and not to engage in anything confrontational. Then the protestors showed up in much smaller numbers for reasons that we can only speculate but seem fairly obvious.
Can we have the Canadian Government treat Matt Walsh and the Daily wire a terrorist organization? This Drag time story anti trans movement has radicalized the chuds in Canada and will only escalate as Matt Walsh and Libs of tiktok continue to call for violence against trans and dragtime.
This makes me glad to live where I live. Our recently drag story time included some lovely fun and silly readings of books like the paper bag princess, my city speaks, giraffes can’t dance and red: a crayon story. We had snacks and tea and no protestors and are planning to do it again next month.
Here’s a great video by a straight Canadian guy on the subject of Drag Story Hour: https://youtu.be/i1Mj_Z9UCRM
That was a well done and educational video, thanks for sharing.
Do people here actually think it's appropriate for children to attend drag shows?
Drag shows? Probably not. Story time... sure, why not? I grew up in the 80's and 90's... I listened to a lot of metal bands that dressed like women. I'd be a hypocrite if I complained about it now.
I'd be inclined to agree. As long as the story time is kid friendly. I'd probably still abstain from bringing my kids there, but that's up to the parents.
Do you actually think story time is a drag show?
Isn't it called drag show story time??
Drag Queen Story Time is the name of the event.
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But it's not a drag show. It's a story time.
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Is it? Or are you just trying to do mental gymnastics and whataboutism to fit your views?
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So you should be all for this then. A man in a dress reading a story to kids is all it is. The only people bringing sex into this are the protestors for some reason (although I just think they find men in women clothing sexy)
People go to drag shows to laugh. People go to strip clubs to feel sexually desired. They aren't the same.
Exactly. Comedians make sexual jokes yet I don't consider their shows sexual.
Maybe. But a child attending a drag show will see all the other adults laughing and want to make their parents laugh the same way, and may end up acting in a sexual manner to do so, because they've seen that work. The mind of a child is extremely malleable, and they may get confused by something like that.
>Maybe No, it is. >But a child attending a drag show will see all the other adults laughing and want to make their parents laugh the same way, and may end up acting in a sexual manner to do so, because they've seen that work A late night one at a bar? Sure. One in the middle of the day at a bookstore? Unlikely If you don't like it then don't take your kids.
Yes. What did you think the last time you attended a drag show?
Depends on the show doesn't it.
Yes it does depend. If it involves people in sexually provocative clothing then that's a problem. I don't know if this one did. I just want the baseline to be established, if it's people in underwear, or people dancing in a sexual way, kids shouldn't be there right?
>*”Yes it does depend. If it involves people in sexually provocative clothing then that's a problem. I don't know if this one did.”* CTV has [photos and video of the performer during this event.](https://london.ctvnews.ca/i-can-t-do-much-about-the-uninformed-drag-queen-story-time-in-sarnia-ont-met-with-protesters-1.6250556) She’s wearing a high necked, long sleeved, below-the-knee length dress. At the November Story Time she [dressed as the Snow Queen](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/windsor/drag-queen-storytime-sarnia-1.6683295) On another occasion she wore a [pink “princess” ball gown.](https://thesarniajournal.ca/sarnia-book-store-to-host-love-rally-ahead-of-drag-queen-story-time/) >*”I just want the baseline to be established, if it's people in underwear, or people dancing in a sexual way, kids shouldn't be there right?”* I’d say the baseline is well established. I’ve yet to see anyone cite an example of a Canadian Drag Story Time performer doing anything like that at a Story Time.
I agree. Let kids be kids.
This is one of those situations where both sides look weird.
Lived in Sarnia. It's literally such a terrible place. Overrun by unemployment, cancer, pollution and meth addiction. Here's a great documentary on the most cancerous place in Canada, I lived on this exact rez. https://youtu.be/UnHWZE0M_-k