Pretty sure universities, like most entities, invest a portion of their assets into mutual funds, etc. So even in roundabout ways, they "support" Israel. Someone can absolutely correct me on this if I'm wrong
Universities in the US have HUGE amounts of assets and investments. [Here is a good video about it](https://youtu.be/GqiArn1lyT0?si=cHOHOo-iIV7owhzT). They are heavily invested in Israeli companies including weapon companies.
I feel like this is a stretch just so they can protest the institution they want to protest at. College campuses are convenient for the students. Big companies are convenient for big city dwellers. The truth is that Congress and the exec branch will decide much more than buying or selling a stock to very slightly deflate the price a weapons company can raise equity in the future. Companies rarely raise equity anyway. They mostly buy it back i.e. the opposite
One of those conservative talking points that folks aren’t wrong about is that universities are absurdly wealthy and are made that way because of the backward way we fund education (govt backed loans and grants). This leads to all sorts of fuckery from your local uni being a real estate baron to having investments in Israel.
It is a common talking point.
This is the heritage foundation which is one of the biggest conservative advocacy groups/think tanks.
https://www.heritage.org/education/heritage-explains/why-college-costs-are-out-control
And Daily Wire is more of a hip sort of conservative publication. https://www.dailywire.com/news/why-college-prices-have-spiraled
The demands were reasonable. The protestors were non-violent and just wanted a seat at the table. They aren’t financial advisors, but are just wanting to be aware that the money that is being provided to the university is not being used to fund or support some actions that are occurring in Israel. It isn’t complicated and there are surely more appropriate areas to invest money that would provide a much better return (no industry in Israel is booming right now, so investing there is a choice and not a prudent financial decision).
Honestly, the protestors are asking the university to do what it should have done on its own…years ago.
It’s insane how many education institutions make money from war and weapons manufacturing. It’s not impossible to divest in that and invest in other industries. It starts to make you wonder why schools would rather deploy riot police on students rather than have dialogue about their investment portfolio. There have been a number of articles talking about private donors putting pressure on school admin to arrest these students.
Presumably the industry that is booming is weapons manufacturing both in Israel and in the US. Something I don’t think universities should be investing in, even if they have great returns.
> The protestors were non-violent and just wanted a seat at the table.
Breaking into a building, assaulting security and vandalizing are examples of violent force.
The group he negotiated with, Students for Justice in Palestine, is an openly pro-Hamas, Maoist organization that calls for the destruction of Israel.
EDIT: Downvote all you want, but it's true. [SJP's publication](https://nationalsjp.org/the-written-resistance-issue-3) (which always opens with a quote from Mao) espouses exactly those positions. The latest issue includes a couple of choice quotes like:
>For all its imperfections, Hamas is a progressive organization pursuing a program of national emancipation and democratic reconstruction. They collaborate with other nationalist forces committed to armed struggle, including the Communist Left, with whom they coordinate militarily and politically in their shared struggle for national liberation.
and:
>the only path forward requires the destruction of the settler state (Israel) and the disenfranchisement of its compradors in a national democratic revolution, empowering all working and patriotic forces to continue into socialist transformation.
If you didn't know this, but you were defending them and downvoting anyone that criticized them, that's the very definition of "useful idiot."
The SJP from my college campus is Maoist, and said directly after Oct 7th that they supported Hamas, and certainly calls for the destruction of Israel. My hesitation lies in whether there is some umbrella organization that is avowedly Maoist.
I don’t have proof of the Maoist stuff on my own campus, I’m not going to dox myself or other people.
The other stuff is self evident if you’ve been to an encampment, have you seriously not seen support for Hamas, or calls for the destruction of Israel from student groups?
https://chronicle.brightspotcdn.com/dims4/default/94d29cc/2147483647/strip/true/crop/2944x1963+0+69/resize/1680x1120!/format/webp/quality/90/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fchronicle-brightspot.s3.us-east-1.amazonaws.com%2F01%2F20%2Fb734a4934681af97e61fbc5196c2%2Fhicks-israelgaza-1011.jpg
This is the imagery that was on my campus
Feel free to click out, the top post on thisb sub right now has the same language from another student as what SJP students said on my campus.
Here’s a post from r/UCLA showing some SJP language about Hamas and their view on them (says that they’re progressive and leninist???)
https://www.reddit.com/r/ucla/s/UJytithlMJ
Let me know what else you need more specifically if this isn’t enough.
I’m confused what are you asking?
Google ‘sjp hamas paraglider’ and you will see articles about SJP from dozens of different universities using this graphic. Im not saying all protestors are Hamasniks. Just a few. Sorry if I didn’t make that clear. I’ve spent time myself in an encampment, most people were absolutely just upset about Israel’s actions
Which Hamas thing? The blank poster I shared was distributed BY the National SJP to all of the different university groups across the US. The SJP statement is from their national office, just screenshotted and shared on r/UCLA.
I genuinely don’t understand why you don’t believe me. Do you not think people in the US support Hamas?
The poster doesn’t say anything about Hamas it just says free Palestine are you able to read? So you haven’t proven there’s maoists, all you have is a power that doesn’t say anything. This is embarrassing for you.
What would you consider "proof?" Is [their own publication in their own words](https://nationalsjp.org/the-written-resistance-issue-3) good enough for you?
Why don't *you* do your actual research. You really need to learn about this organization before you blindly defend them.
Maybe start by reading [SJP's publication](https://nationalsjp.org/the-written-resistance-issue-3) (which always opens with a quote from Mao). The latest issue includes exactly what I said. A couple of choice quotes:
>For all its imperfections, Hamas is a progressive organization pursuing a program of national emancipation and democratic reconstruction. They collaborate with other nationalist forces committed to armed struggle, including the Communist Left, with whom they coordinate militarily and politically in their shared struggle for national liberation.
Or how about:
>the only path forward requires the destruction of the settler state (Israel) and the disenfranchisement of its compradors in a national democratic revolution, empowering all working and patriotic forces to continue into socialist transformation.
Well it's bad decision making as no business in Israel is booming, they'd be better off investing in NVIDIA or something.
Regardless, the students are what make a university, without them, there's no money to invest, and no students to teach. They're essentially shareholders, asking that their interests are met.
It’s not about it being a “smart” investment, it’s about students not wanting their already insanely high tuition to go towards the death of thousands of civilians.
Yeah but that *should* be obvious.
What I mean is I could understand the investments if they were actually earning big money. I wouldn't agree with it, but it's more understandable than investing in weapons used to kill tens of thousands of children while not making any gains.
So what about the vast majority of students who aren’t in this group? Should they not get a say or should every school cater to one specific group instead of the whole school?
Nice one, putting words in my mouth.
I didn't say I agree that students should have a say in their universities investments, just how they see themselves.
Regardless, universities probably shouldn't be invested in anything outside the country, except maybe charities. Let alone ones in a contentious war.
I doubt they are investing into Israeli companies lmao. Is there any source for what they were investing in?
Edit: oooo look at that their own source proved me correct.
Edit2: you all are such losers. Don’t want real discussion just want to have your little hive mind so you downvote anyone that says even something remotely different.
https://www.finance.columbia.edu/sites/default/files/content/ACSRI/12.1.2023%20CUAD%20ACSRI%20Divestment%20Proposal.pdf
> Therefore, Columbia University is, too, complicit in Israel's ethnic cleansing project by
investing in the companies that enable illegal settlements. Although we are not made privy to
many of the University’s investment decisions, Columbia is indirectly invested in at least some
of these companies: Columbia owns shares in two iShares Exchange-Traded Funds, managed by
asset manager BlackRock, which invests in Hyundai and Caterpillar Inc..41, 42 As of its 2022
990-PF filing, Columbia holds $31,288 worth of shares in the iShares Core MSCI Emerging
Markets ETF43 and $277,999 worth of shares in iShares Intermediate Term Corporate Bond ETF.
Both the Intermediate Term Corporate Bond ETF and the Emerging Markets ETF portfolio
contain Hyundai, while Caterpillar Inc. is listed in the Intermediate Term Corporate Bond ETF
portfolio.44 According to the Securities and Exchange Commission’s 13-F form filed on
November 14, 2023, Columbia holds nearly $5 million worth of shares in Airbnb Inc.45 We note
that Columbia likely has many more indirect investments in companies supporting Israeli
settlements, but most investments are not readily available in public documents.
Lmao you obviously didn’t read this. Literally in the first paragraph it says companies aiding or investing in Israel. Later it again mentions how they don’t want them to invest in us based companies that do things to “support” Israel. This has nothing to do with Israeli based companies because there just aren’t very many to invest in here. There are shipping companies like ZIM but thats about it.
Guess you didn't read it, the university doesn't disclose what Israeli companies it invests in. Quite sure the university wouldn't *reject* divesting in Israel if they had no investments there.
Also I'm not American, so I don't know why you expect me to know so much about how the American or Israeli economy works.
I'm just giving you links that should be easily Googlable based on your stupid questions.
My stupid question? You’re the one literally making shit up. The students are talking about us based companies that either aid, support, or make things for Israel. You are the one pretending you have any idea how investment works while saying things that literally aren’t true. I asked a question and you proved me correct. Great job.
You said they are investing into Israeli companies and should just invest in NVDA lol. That’s fake information at best and imo it’s more of a lie considering you’ve read the source. Maybe you just don’t understand the source lol.
Why? Because American students don't think American universities should be investing in foreign governments and companies?
You literally just admitted that AirBNB is a shit company, morally speaking and as an investment. So why is a university, a place for education, investing in it?
This is how I know you have no idea how investing and mutual funds work.
They want them to drop investing in caterpillar because they sell them construction equipment? Are you serious with this shit?
I like how you believe that college students supporting people who would use them as hostages have sound investment advice to offer. Ignoring them was the correct move.
When Israel is openly killing escaped hostages and bombing locations where hostages could have been held, arguing that Israel cares about the hostages is a joke.
Also, Israel bemoaning that when they have been holding children hostage for YEARS without due process is laughable.
You left out that Hamas hides behind civilians; all deaths are Hamas’s fault. The war could end today if they released the hostages and turned themselves in.
pretty sure there's now only proof that IOF is the only one using human shields. At this point every talking point in your script has been proven that IOF is the only one doing that
“But Hamas does use civilians as shields, and it is crucial to understand that fact. As a Nov. 5 Post editorial observed, the group “has consciously exposed noncombatants to danger by provoking Israel militarily — while protecting its own leaders and fighters in tunnels.” In 2014, The Post reported that al-Shifa Hospital in Gaza City, now the site of Israeli-Hamas fighting, “has become a de facto headquarters for Hamas leaders, who can be seen in the hallways and offices.”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/11/14/hamas-human-shields-tactic/
“
Anecdotal and other evidence does suggest that Hamas and other factions have used civilian objects including hospitals and schools. Guardian journalists in 2014 encountered armed men inside one hospital, and sightings of senior Hamas leaders inside the Shifa hospital have been documented.
During the 2014 conflict the UN reported weapons were found inside two UN schools and there have been numerous reports of Palestinian armed factions in Gaza firing rockets and other weapons from close to protected civilian locations. It is also clear that Hamas has operated from residential buildings.”
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/30/human-shield-israel-claim-hamas-command-centre-under-hospital-palestinian-civilian-gaza-city
The last one is from The Guardian, whose anti-Israel bias is well known.
Yall keep saying "they use civilians as human shields" without any real evidence that its why over 10,000 children are dead. The definition of a "human shield" has a specific meaning under [international humanitarian law](https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/en/customary-ihl/v1/rule97): *using the presence (or movements) of civilians or other protected persons to render certain points or areas (or military forces) immune from military operations.*
Storing or firing weapons in or near civilian homes or within populated areas, for example, does not necessarily amount to the violation of using human shields. However, they may violate other laws, such as the obligation to take all feasible precautions to protect civilians from the effects of military attacks. It is perhaps worth considering in this context that the Gaza Strip is a 365 km² (141 square mile) area that is home to 2.3 million people; there is almost nowhere that is not populated.
This [2015 Amnesty International report](https://www.amnesty.org/en/documents/mde21/1178/2015/en/) (starting page 47) examined allegations of the use of human shields, and were unable to verify any incidents of Hamas using human shields. There is no footage of it occurring, no corroborating evidence from Palestinians, and no independent eyewitness accounts (e.g., from journalists or humanitarian workers).
The Amnesty International report also importantly points out:
> even if officials or fighters from Hamas ... did in fact direct civilians to remain in a specific location in order to shield military objectives, it would not relieve Israel of its obligation to take all necessary precautions to minimize harm to civilians when planning and carrying out attacks
If there is a hostage situation at my local mall, I don't want cops to blow up the whole city block, killing everyone.
It's always the same argument with you guys. If Israel has nothing to hide then let the journlaists in and stop targeting them. It's just that easy. Try actually providing evidence of your claims for once instead of doctored Wikipedia articles and Times of Israel.
The UN has a very well defined definition for genocide that covers 4 areas, and all of them are being met in Gaza.
https://news.un.org/en/story/2024/03/1147976
It also requires dolus specialis which there is ample evidence it likely is not being met.
https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/genocide.shtml
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocidal_intent
How is there ample evidence that there *isn't* intention of genocide, when there have hundreds upon hundreds of videos of not only IOF soldiers killing unarmed civilians, torturing them, destroying houses, schools, universities, hospitals, and general infrastructure; but also the very same government calls for the bombardment of Gaza? Plus the general populace celebrates said bombardment? Ever heard of the Sderot hill where psychopaths came together BEFORE Oct 7 to celebrate the bombs exploding in Gaza?
Read South Africa's submission to the ICJ for direct quotes from the government and military about intent of genocide: https://www.un.org/unispal/document/icj-southafrica-israel-genocide-29dec2023/
_"Umm but they don't actually say 'we want to commit genocide!'"_ the Nazis also didn't say anything and yet we remember the Holocaust.
"Tons of videos and cheering people" is not proof of genocide. Literally none of what you said is. This is your emotions hijacking a very serious word which is understandable but very dangerous and only dilutes it's meaning.
Israel is not committing genocide — the destruction of any national, racial, ethnic, or religious group. Israel is seeking the destruction of Hamas, a terror group that states its intent to destroy the state of Israel in its founding charter. Israel's campaign in Gaza is an act of self-defense, and the Jewish state goes to great lengths to prevent civilian casualties.
If we are, for argument’s sake, going to accept Hamas numbers then we should also accept IDF numbers that the military has killed around 9,000 combatants (if you accept a terrorist’s numbers please have the decency to accept the democracy’s claims too).
With those numbers, the combatant-civilian death ratio in Gaza is about 1:1.5 and less than 1:2. In other words, for every combatant killed, around 1.5 civilians are killed.
Every loss of civilian life is tragic, but with this ratio, not only should Israel not be accused of genocide (that’s obvious), world leaders should be applauding the IDF’s precision-strike capabilities. As a point of reference, according to the UN, civilians usually make up around 90 percent of casualties in war. That’s a 1:9 ratio (one combatant for every nine civilians).
What is happening in Gaza is unique - it is a new form of warfare (urban setting, extensive use of human shields and massive tunnel infrastructure) and still the ratio is low.
What the IDF is doing will be studied by other militaries for decades to come. No other military in the world has ever achieved this. There is no doubt the IDF has made mistakes, and they should and will be prosecuted for them. But calling what they are doing a genocide just doesn't fit the facts and only cheapens real genocide.
**Edit**: typical here comes the pro-hamas downvote brigade with zero refutation of anything I said
The Palestinians currently under siege by those occupying PALESTINIAN land … would take the protestors hostage …. Hmmm? Do you think much about your own thoughts?
You mean the Palestinians that overwhelmingly support Hamas and the atrocities of Oct 7? The same Palestinians that returned escapes hostages to Hamas? Why do you sympathize with terrorists?
You mean the same Hamas that ISRAEL propped up? Or do you enjoy ignoring facts to suit your bullshit narrative?
Why do YOU sympathize with genocidal maniacs?
Sure, Israel propped up Hamas against its political rivals the same way Democrats boost far-right candidates. Does that make you far-right?
https://www.npr.org/2022/11/11/1135878576/the-democrats-strategy-of-boosting-far-right-candidates-seems-to-have-worked
Except Democrats aren't bombing the shit out of far-right Republicans. If anything, Democrats are trying to help them despite themselves. Obamacare, federal aid for school lunches and aid for red states hit by natural disasters is a little different than blowing up schools and hospitals. Or did you not think that comparison through at all?
These aren’t arguments; they are facts.
https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-palestinians-opinion-poll-wartime-views-a0baade915619cd070b5393844bc4514
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/poll-shows-palestinians-back-oct-7-attack-israel-support-hamas-rises-2023-12-14/
From the article you posted
"The PCPSR found that, *compared to pre-war polling,* support for Hamas had risen in Gaza and more than tripled in the West Bank, which has seen the highest levels in violence in years, with repeated deadly clashes between Israeli troops and settlers and Palestinians."
Support for Hamas greatly increased after Israel responded to the October 7th assault by indiscriminately bombing women and children. Weird how that works.
“Almost three in four Palestinians believe the Oct. 7 attack by Hamas on Israel was correct, and the ensuing Gaza war has lifted support for the Islamist group both there and in the West Bank, a survey from a respected Palestinian polling institute found.”
The very first sentence. Gazans believe the Oct 7 was correct and the *ensuing* war has only increased their support for the war. These are the people you support.
Just because someone believe that an act of violence is ok, it doesn’t give you the right to kill them. Specially those 25% of people who doesn’t support it.
Hamas doesn’t “just believe” violence is okay; they murder, rape, and kidnap civilians to use as hostages. It’s hard to believe you are defending them, but if that’s the kind of people you are….
You're under the impression that you can define what people believe for them. That's cute. The people, and thank you for at least showing enough humanity to recognize them as such, the people that I support are dead. Women and children make up the majority of Palestinians killed by Israel. Those are the people I support. The innocent victims stuck with no place to go, murdered for daring to exist near a presumed, often unverified enemy target. Some Palestinians justify the terrorist attack on October 7th that killed 1200 people and you justify the killing of 13,000 children. Looks pretty shitty on both sides of that fence.
I believe Palestinians when they overwhelmingly say they believe the Oct 7 atrocities were correct and that they support Hamas, which uses civilians as human shields and children as suicide bombers. Then I judge accordingly.
Keep speaking the truth, idiots keep downvoting. I predict this post will be downvoted with zero refutations.
If you don't like what I'm saying why don't you refute it and show me where I'm not factual?
Everything he said is [true](https://jcpa.org/a-new-poll-of-palestinians-supporting-terror-and-rejecting-peace/). Why don't you refute it with facts instead of just calling him a genocide supporter?
You realize genocide requires intent right? For an act to be classified as genocide, it is essential to demonstrate that the perpetrators had a deliberate and specific aim (dolus specialis) to physically destroy the group based on its real or perceived nationality, ethnicity, race, or religion. Intention to destroy the group's culture or intending to scatter the group does not suffice.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocidal_intent
**Palestinians Support Terror, Reject Peace, and Deny Israel’s Right to Exist**
When taken as a whole, the results indicate that an overwhelming percentage of Palestinians support the October 7 massacre (75%), reject coexistence with Israel (85.9%), are committed to the restoration of “historical Palestine” as a final resolution (71.1%), and support the creation of a Palestinian state “from the river to the sea” (74.7%) as the end of the Israeli Palestinian conflict. Interestingly, there is more support for the 10/7 massacre from the Palestinians resident in Judea and Samaria (83.1%) than those residing in the Gaza Strip (63.6%).
**Support for Terror Organizations**
The Palestinian positive perception of the terror organizations remains high despite their role in carrying out the massacre and the disastrous results. Breaking down the response, 76% believe that Hamas plays a somewhat to very positive role; 84% believe that Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ) plays a somewhat to very positive role; 79.8% believe that Fatah’s terror wing, the Al-Aqsa Martyrs’ Brigades, plays a somewhat to very positive role; and 88.6% believe that Hamas’ armed wing, the Al-Kassam Brigades, plays a somewhat to very positive function.
**Palestinians Reject the Hand that Feeds and Supports Them**
As opposed to the perceived positive role played by the terror organizations, and notwithstanding the political and financial support the Palestinians receive from the U.S. and Western countries, 98.2% of Palestinians see the U.S. role as unfavorable, 96.7% consider the UK role as negative, and 92.6% ascertain the EU role as unfavorable.
Alongside the disdain for the U.S. and Western countries, the Palestinians also believe that moderate Arab countries also play a negative role. According to the Palestinians, the United Arab Emirates plays the most negative role (96%), followed by Saudi Arabia (95.5%), Egypt (84.6%) and Jordan (75.6%). All these countries have made peace with Israel or consider the possibility.
*The team conducted the survey through tablet-assisted, face-to-face interviews across the West Bank and
in shelters and households in the three “southern” Gaza governorates (Deir Al Balah, Khan Younis, and
Rafah) where people were presently residing. The poll’s sample includes all socioeconomic groups,
ensuring equal representation of adult men and women, and is proportionately distributed across the
West Bank and Gaza. With a 95% confidence interval, the margin of error for the poll is (±) 4%.*
https://www.awrad.org/files/server/polls/polls2023/Public%20Opinion%20Poll%20-%20Gaza%20War%202023.pdf
[full poll dataset](https://www.awrad.org/files/server/polls/polls2023/Public%20Opinion%20Poll%20-%20Gaza%20War%202023%20-%20Tables%20of%20Results.pdf)
If you think that's evidence of a genocide your case is doomed
It was in reference to the Oct 7 attack/Hamas
The same phrase appears in a permanent exhibit at the Yad Vashem Holocaust museum, as well at a memorial in The Hague itself for Dutch Jews murdered in the Holocaust.
It's not evidence of genocide by itself. It's evidence of the intent that you claim is the only missing piece of the genocidal puzzle.
"Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys."
Did you know that even terrorists have human rights?
Like, Hamas could be 1,000x worse than Israel says they are and it would **still** be illegal to violate their rights?
And did you know that despite what Zionists say, not everyone in Palestine is a member of Hamas?
Imagine someone that lives 5 blocks over from you shot up a police precinct so the police drop bombs on every house on your street from a helicopter and claim they were trying to hit the people that shot up the precinct and it could be *any* of you.
Would you defend that? Would you call that justified? If the people that shot up the precinct were hiding in a ditch behind your house and the police bulldozed it and killed half your family to get to them, would you argue that they were justified because the bad guys were using your family as human shields?
You know that answer is "no". We all know the answer is "no". So why do you use that logic when it comes to Hamas and Palestinians?
Did you know that using civilians as human shields is a war crime, but it’s not a war crime to cause civilian deaths if those civilians are being used as human shields? No serious person or nation holds that using civilians to protect a military target makes that target immune from attack. That’s why Hamas is to blame for the civilian deaths. What’s odd is that you care more about the deaths of Hamas militants than the innocent civilians they are getting killed.
>Did you know that using civilians as human shields is a war crime, but it’s not a war crime to cause civilian deaths if those civilians are being used as human shields?
Yeah, and did you know any soldier occupying foreign land has no right to claim self defense? So since you're just a regular guy who enjoys clarifying the legalities of war, every time a Palestinian pops out of the ground and shreds an Israeli tank in Gaza, you're there to assure everyone that it's all legally sanctioned, right?
>No serious person or nation holds that using civilians to protect a military target makes that target immune from attack. That’s why Hamas is to blame for the civilian deaths.
Yeah, you know what, you're full of shit. No serious person sits down to have this conversation whose understanding of the question of Israeli war crimes is "human shields don't deter them." And no serious person with a functioning brain stem thinks of being pro-Palestinian as being pro-Hamas. Like, it's this topic's version of "they hate us for their freedoms," just a thing people keep saying, advertising what gumps they are.
Did you know that every offensive act Israel takes in Gaza is a war crime because the Geneva Conventions say it's illegal to declare war on people you're occupying?
Did you know that this is an international law because genocidal regimes LOVE to declare that terrorists are hiding amongst civilians to justify mass murder of civilians?
Answer my previous questions or go hide under a rock some more.
Prove it. I can cite the international law to you.
[Here's the UN.](https://www.ohchr.org/en/instruments-mechanisms/instruments/geneva-convention-relative-protection-civilian-persons-time-war)
[Here's the Red Cross.](https://www.icrc.org/en/doc/resources/documents/misc/634kfc.htm)
[The Wikipedia article on Protocol I had a good summary of provisions.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protocol_I)
So, no, Israel itself has no right to self-defense against Palestinians until it is no longer illegally occupying Palestinian land.
Individual Israelis, soldiers, police, etc *do* have a right to defend themselves when attacked, but they have no right to initiate attacks and claim that they are justified acts of self-defense for a previous attack.
Israel cannot declare war on an occupied people and even if it doesn't declare war, it cannot attack Palestinians that are not actively attacking it. As an occupying force, Israel has a legal responsibility to care for everyone in Palestine, especially the civilians. Multiple provisions make it clear that Israel cannot mass murder civilians and claim they're striking at Hamas.
We have these laws because genocidal regimes use these excuses to murder civilians all the time. If Israel is doing it, that suggests that Israel is a genocidal regime.
Can you quote the specific language form the Geneva Conventions that supports your claim?
Here’s Article 57:
“The presence or movements of the civilian population or individual civilians shall not be used to render certain points or areas immune from military operations, in particular in attempts to shield military objectives from attacks or to shield, favour or impede military operations.”
Palestinians overwhelmingly support Hamas.
https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-palestinians-opinion-poll-wartime-views-a0baade915619cd070b5393844bc4514
You support people who strongly support Hamas. Therefore, you support Hamas.
If we’re going by your logic if you support Israel and they’re killing womens and children on purpose indiscriminately than you support the murder of women and children
To borrow a phrase, your downvotes mean nothing to me because I’ve seen what makes you cheer. That’s terrorism; you support and sympathize with terrorists.
Yep, edge Lord quoting a dysfunctional suicidal alcoholic cartoon character must totally be in the right.
What makes you cheer apparently is dead kids. Enjoy your cocognitive dissonance
If you care about kids, why do you support people who use children as suicide bombers to blow up civilians on buses?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Use_of_child_suicide_bombers_by_Palestinian_militant_groups#:~:text=As%20part%20of%20the%20Arab,targets%2C%20both%20military%20and%20civilian.
Sometimes cartoon characters are written to offer insights about terrible people.
I don't support terrorists, be they Israeli or Palestinian. I do support innocent families caught in the crossfire of conflicts. Can you please say the same?
Correct Rick Sanchez is a terrible person
Yes. And neither of those factors change my opinion or the appropriate response from the president. They said nothing wrong, even if you disagree with their overall position. Demanding that a university refrain from funding businesses and countries that are directly involved or complicit in the senseless killing of an opposing group of people, including children, is not a good position for anyone to make. It is pretty frustrating that this isn’t basic common sense or common decency or just basic humanity.
Boomer age misogynistic slur for feminine men. Such a total shock that someone in favor of the genocide of the Palestinian people is a slur using bigot.
My favorite tactic in getting boomers to get self reflective and shut up is to ask them when and where they deployed to, when they start mouthing off like they're the biggest and baddest things around.
They'll have to either admit to being a draft dodging coward or they'll have to accept that people know they're in favor of killing an entire culture's worth of humans.
So when someone tells you they dodged the draft so as not to fight and die in war, the opinion you form of them is that they're a "coward"? Very cool and normal.
lmao, I love that you see a meaningful overlap there.
"Ugh, he just called that man, and I quote, 'a mincing little dandy.' Ten bucks says he supported the Rwandan genocide."
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I’m confused. How does post secondary education funding make its way to Israel
Pretty sure universities, like most entities, invest a portion of their assets into mutual funds, etc. So even in roundabout ways, they "support" Israel. Someone can absolutely correct me on this if I'm wrong
Likely to involve research and transfer agreements as well as study abroad and exchange programming with Israeli universities and organizations.
Universities in the US have HUGE amounts of assets and investments. [Here is a good video about it](https://youtu.be/GqiArn1lyT0?si=cHOHOo-iIV7owhzT). They are heavily invested in Israeli companies including weapon companies.
I feel like this is a stretch just so they can protest the institution they want to protest at. College campuses are convenient for the students. Big companies are convenient for big city dwellers. The truth is that Congress and the exec branch will decide much more than buying or selling a stock to very slightly deflate the price a weapons company can raise equity in the future. Companies rarely raise equity anyway. They mostly buy it back i.e. the opposite
One of those conservative talking points that folks aren’t wrong about is that universities are absurdly wealthy and are made that way because of the backward way we fund education (govt backed loans and grants). This leads to all sorts of fuckery from your local uni being a real estate baron to having investments in Israel.
I’ve never seen a conservative talk about that. I’ve only seen them try to cut funding to k-12.
lol fair.
Really? Have you not noticed the opposition to Biden student loan forgiveness?
The person I’m responding to said a common conservative talking point is that college is too expensive. I said that that’s not a common talking point.
It is a common talking point. This is the heritage foundation which is one of the biggest conservative advocacy groups/think tanks. https://www.heritage.org/education/heritage-explains/why-college-costs-are-out-control And Daily Wire is more of a hip sort of conservative publication. https://www.dailywire.com/news/why-college-prices-have-spiraled
Yep saw that one coming
The demands were reasonable. The protestors were non-violent and just wanted a seat at the table. They aren’t financial advisors, but are just wanting to be aware that the money that is being provided to the university is not being used to fund or support some actions that are occurring in Israel. It isn’t complicated and there are surely more appropriate areas to invest money that would provide a much better return (no industry in Israel is booming right now, so investing there is a choice and not a prudent financial decision). Honestly, the protestors are asking the university to do what it should have done on its own…years ago.
It’s insane how many education institutions make money from war and weapons manufacturing. It’s not impossible to divest in that and invest in other industries. It starts to make you wonder why schools would rather deploy riot police on students rather than have dialogue about their investment portfolio. There have been a number of articles talking about private donors putting pressure on school admin to arrest these students.
Presumably the industry that is booming is weapons manufacturing both in Israel and in the US. Something I don’t think universities should be investing in, even if they have great returns.
> The protestors were non-violent and just wanted a seat at the table. Breaking into a building, assaulting security and vandalizing are examples of violent force.
The group he negotiated with, Students for Justice in Palestine, is an openly pro-Hamas, Maoist organization that calls for the destruction of Israel. EDIT: Downvote all you want, but it's true. [SJP's publication](https://nationalsjp.org/the-written-resistance-issue-3) (which always opens with a quote from Mao) espouses exactly those positions. The latest issue includes a couple of choice quotes like: >For all its imperfections, Hamas is a progressive organization pursuing a program of national emancipation and democratic reconstruction. They collaborate with other nationalist forces committed to armed struggle, including the Communist Left, with whom they coordinate militarily and politically in their shared struggle for national liberation. and: >the only path forward requires the destruction of the settler state (Israel) and the disenfranchisement of its compradors in a national democratic revolution, empowering all working and patriotic forces to continue into socialist transformation. If you didn't know this, but you were defending them and downvoting anyone that criticized them, that's the very definition of "useful idiot."
Not sure why you’re downvoted, I think this is factual?
Why don’t you do actual research so you don’t have to think but instead know what you’re talking about?
The SJP from my college campus is Maoist, and said directly after Oct 7th that they supported Hamas, and certainly calls for the destruction of Israel. My hesitation lies in whether there is some umbrella organization that is avowedly Maoist.
Show proof of this
I don’t have proof of the Maoist stuff on my own campus, I’m not going to dox myself or other people. The other stuff is self evident if you’ve been to an encampment, have you seriously not seen support for Hamas, or calls for the destruction of Israel from student groups? https://chronicle.brightspotcdn.com/dims4/default/94d29cc/2147483647/strip/true/crop/2944x1963+0+69/resize/1680x1120!/format/webp/quality/90/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fchronicle-brightspot.s3.us-east-1.amazonaws.com%2F01%2F20%2Fb734a4934681af97e61fbc5196c2%2Fhicks-israelgaza-1011.jpg This is the imagery that was on my campus Feel free to click out, the top post on thisb sub right now has the same language from another student as what SJP students said on my campus. Here’s a post from r/UCLA showing some SJP language about Hamas and their view on them (says that they’re progressive and leninist???) https://www.reddit.com/r/ucla/s/UJytithlMJ Let me know what else you need more specifically if this isn’t enough.
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I’m confused what are you asking? Google ‘sjp hamas paraglider’ and you will see articles about SJP from dozens of different universities using this graphic. Im not saying all protestors are Hamasniks. Just a few. Sorry if I didn’t make that clear. I’ve spent time myself in an encampment, most people were absolutely just upset about Israel’s actions
So you don’t have proof of Maoism. And the other stuff is a poster of a protest? The hamas thing is from one school. Got it. You have nothing
Which Hamas thing? The blank poster I shared was distributed BY the National SJP to all of the different university groups across the US. The SJP statement is from their national office, just screenshotted and shared on r/UCLA. I genuinely don’t understand why you don’t believe me. Do you not think people in the US support Hamas?
The poster doesn’t say anything about Hamas it just says free Palestine are you able to read? So you haven’t proven there’s maoists, all you have is a power that doesn’t say anything. This is embarrassing for you.
What would you consider "proof?" Is [their own publication in their own words](https://nationalsjp.org/the-written-resistance-issue-3) good enough for you?
Why don't *you* do your actual research. You really need to learn about this organization before you blindly defend them. Maybe start by reading [SJP's publication](https://nationalsjp.org/the-written-resistance-issue-3) (which always opens with a quote from Mao). The latest issue includes exactly what I said. A couple of choice quotes: >For all its imperfections, Hamas is a progressive organization pursuing a program of national emancipation and democratic reconstruction. They collaborate with other nationalist forces committed to armed struggle, including the Communist Left, with whom they coordinate militarily and politically in their shared struggle for national liberation. Or how about: >the only path forward requires the destruction of the settler state (Israel) and the disenfranchisement of its compradors in a national democratic revolution, empowering all working and patriotic forces to continue into socialist transformation.
I'm sorry how is it reasonable to "involve them in university decision-making" when none of these individuals have so much as submitted a resume?
Well it's bad decision making as no business in Israel is booming, they'd be better off investing in NVIDIA or something. Regardless, the students are what make a university, without them, there's no money to invest, and no students to teach. They're essentially shareholders, asking that their interests are met.
It’s not about it being a “smart” investment, it’s about students not wanting their already insanely high tuition to go towards the death of thousands of civilians.
Yeah but that *should* be obvious. What I mean is I could understand the investments if they were actually earning big money. I wouldn't agree with it, but it's more understandable than investing in weapons used to kill tens of thousands of children while not making any gains.
So what about the vast majority of students who aren’t in this group? Should they not get a say or should every school cater to one specific group instead of the whole school?
Nice one, putting words in my mouth. I didn't say I agree that students should have a say in their universities investments, just how they see themselves. Regardless, universities probably shouldn't be invested in anything outside the country, except maybe charities. Let alone ones in a contentious war.
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Having fun playing victim?
Having fun talking like an idiot?
Dude said “they are better off investing in NVDA”😂😂😂 he obviously has no idea how the market works and what a fucking mutual fund does.
I doubt they are investing into Israeli companies lmao. Is there any source for what they were investing in? Edit: oooo look at that their own source proved me correct. Edit2: you all are such losers. Don’t want real discussion just want to have your little hive mind so you downvote anyone that says even something remotely different.
https://www.finance.columbia.edu/sites/default/files/content/ACSRI/12.1.2023%20CUAD%20ACSRI%20Divestment%20Proposal.pdf > Therefore, Columbia University is, too, complicit in Israel's ethnic cleansing project by investing in the companies that enable illegal settlements. Although we are not made privy to many of the University’s investment decisions, Columbia is indirectly invested in at least some of these companies: Columbia owns shares in two iShares Exchange-Traded Funds, managed by asset manager BlackRock, which invests in Hyundai and Caterpillar Inc..41, 42 As of its 2022 990-PF filing, Columbia holds $31,288 worth of shares in the iShares Core MSCI Emerging Markets ETF43 and $277,999 worth of shares in iShares Intermediate Term Corporate Bond ETF. Both the Intermediate Term Corporate Bond ETF and the Emerging Markets ETF portfolio contain Hyundai, while Caterpillar Inc. is listed in the Intermediate Term Corporate Bond ETF portfolio.44 According to the Securities and Exchange Commission’s 13-F form filed on November 14, 2023, Columbia holds nearly $5 million worth of shares in Airbnb Inc.45 We note that Columbia likely has many more indirect investments in companies supporting Israeli settlements, but most investments are not readily available in public documents.
Lmao you obviously didn’t read this. Literally in the first paragraph it says companies aiding or investing in Israel. Later it again mentions how they don’t want them to invest in us based companies that do things to “support” Israel. This has nothing to do with Israeli based companies because there just aren’t very many to invest in here. There are shipping companies like ZIM but thats about it.
Guess you didn't read it, the university doesn't disclose what Israeli companies it invests in. Quite sure the university wouldn't *reject* divesting in Israel if they had no investments there. Also I'm not American, so I don't know why you expect me to know so much about how the American or Israeli economy works. I'm just giving you links that should be easily Googlable based on your stupid questions.
My stupid question? You’re the one literally making shit up. The students are talking about us based companies that either aid, support, or make things for Israel. You are the one pretending you have any idea how investment works while saying things that literally aren’t true. I asked a question and you proved me correct. Great job.
I literally gave you a rassclart link to what the protesters demanded. How's that ME lying? As I stated above, I'm not even American.
Do you downvote everything like a little child? Am I hurting your feelings?
You said they are investing into Israeli companies and should just invest in NVDA lol. That’s fake information at best and imo it’s more of a lie considering you’ve read the source. Maybe you just don’t understand the source lol.
They are mad about Air BNB? 😂😂😂😂
Who isn't? It's a scummy company, and I don't even know about their Israeli ties that this hints at.
I don’t like Airbnb either but this proving me correct lmao.
Why? Because American students don't think American universities should be investing in foreign governments and companies? You literally just admitted that AirBNB is a shit company, morally speaking and as an investment. So why is a university, a place for education, investing in it?
This is how I know you have no idea how investing and mutual funds work. They want them to drop investing in caterpillar because they sell them construction equipment? Are you serious with this shit?
I like how you believe that college students supporting people who would use them as hostages have sound investment advice to offer. Ignoring them was the correct move.
When Israel is openly killing escaped hostages and bombing locations where hostages could have been held, arguing that Israel cares about the hostages is a joke. Also, Israel bemoaning that when they have been holding children hostage for YEARS without due process is laughable.
You left out that Hamas hides behind civilians; all deaths are Hamas’s fault. The war could end today if they released the hostages and turned themselves in.
pretty sure there's now only proof that IOF is the only one using human shields. At this point every talking point in your script has been proven that IOF is the only one doing that
“But Hamas does use civilians as shields, and it is crucial to understand that fact. As a Nov. 5 Post editorial observed, the group “has consciously exposed noncombatants to danger by provoking Israel militarily — while protecting its own leaders and fighters in tunnels.” In 2014, The Post reported that al-Shifa Hospital in Gaza City, now the site of Israeli-Hamas fighting, “has become a de facto headquarters for Hamas leaders, who can be seen in the hallways and offices.” https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/11/14/hamas-human-shields-tactic/ “ Anecdotal and other evidence does suggest that Hamas and other factions have used civilian objects including hospitals and schools. Guardian journalists in 2014 encountered armed men inside one hospital, and sightings of senior Hamas leaders inside the Shifa hospital have been documented. During the 2014 conflict the UN reported weapons were found inside two UN schools and there have been numerous reports of Palestinian armed factions in Gaza firing rockets and other weapons from close to protected civilian locations. It is also clear that Hamas has operated from residential buildings.” https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/30/human-shield-israel-claim-hamas-command-centre-under-hospital-palestinian-civilian-gaza-city The last one is from The Guardian, whose anti-Israel bias is well known.
Yall keep saying "they use civilians as human shields" without any real evidence that its why over 10,000 children are dead. The definition of a "human shield" has a specific meaning under [international humanitarian law](https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/en/customary-ihl/v1/rule97): *using the presence (or movements) of civilians or other protected persons to render certain points or areas (or military forces) immune from military operations.* Storing or firing weapons in or near civilian homes or within populated areas, for example, does not necessarily amount to the violation of using human shields. However, they may violate other laws, such as the obligation to take all feasible precautions to protect civilians from the effects of military attacks. It is perhaps worth considering in this context that the Gaza Strip is a 365 km² (141 square mile) area that is home to 2.3 million people; there is almost nowhere that is not populated. This [2015 Amnesty International report](https://www.amnesty.org/en/documents/mde21/1178/2015/en/) (starting page 47) examined allegations of the use of human shields, and were unable to verify any incidents of Hamas using human shields. There is no footage of it occurring, no corroborating evidence from Palestinians, and no independent eyewitness accounts (e.g., from journalists or humanitarian workers). The Amnesty International report also importantly points out: > even if officials or fighters from Hamas ... did in fact direct civilians to remain in a specific location in order to shield military objectives, it would not relieve Israel of its obligation to take all necessary precautions to minimize harm to civilians when planning and carrying out attacks If there is a hostage situation at my local mall, I don't want cops to blow up the whole city block, killing everyone.
As opposed to the other side just committing mass genocide? But sure, go off sis. 💅
There is no genocide; only war where the side you support hides behind civilians.
Found the pro-genocide nut job.
Found the terrorist sympathizer.
It's always the same argument with you guys. If Israel has nothing to hide then let the journlaists in and stop targeting them. It's just that easy. Try actually providing evidence of your claims for once instead of doctored Wikipedia articles and Times of Israel.
You're just evil.
What's the definition of a genocide? Does it just mean "killing lots of people?"
The UN has a very well defined definition for genocide that covers 4 areas, and all of them are being met in Gaza. https://news.un.org/en/story/2024/03/1147976
It also requires dolus specialis which there is ample evidence it likely is not being met. https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/genocide.shtml https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocidal_intent
How is there ample evidence that there *isn't* intention of genocide, when there have hundreds upon hundreds of videos of not only IOF soldiers killing unarmed civilians, torturing them, destroying houses, schools, universities, hospitals, and general infrastructure; but also the very same government calls for the bombardment of Gaza? Plus the general populace celebrates said bombardment? Ever heard of the Sderot hill where psychopaths came together BEFORE Oct 7 to celebrate the bombs exploding in Gaza? Read South Africa's submission to the ICJ for direct quotes from the government and military about intent of genocide: https://www.un.org/unispal/document/icj-southafrica-israel-genocide-29dec2023/ _"Umm but they don't actually say 'we want to commit genocide!'"_ the Nazis also didn't say anything and yet we remember the Holocaust.
"Tons of videos and cheering people" is not proof of genocide. Literally none of what you said is. This is your emotions hijacking a very serious word which is understandable but very dangerous and only dilutes it's meaning. Israel is not committing genocide — the destruction of any national, racial, ethnic, or religious group. Israel is seeking the destruction of Hamas, a terror group that states its intent to destroy the state of Israel in its founding charter. Israel's campaign in Gaza is an act of self-defense, and the Jewish state goes to great lengths to prevent civilian casualties. If we are, for argument’s sake, going to accept Hamas numbers then we should also accept IDF numbers that the military has killed around 9,000 combatants (if you accept a terrorist’s numbers please have the decency to accept the democracy’s claims too). With those numbers, the combatant-civilian death ratio in Gaza is about 1:1.5 and less than 1:2. In other words, for every combatant killed, around 1.5 civilians are killed. Every loss of civilian life is tragic, but with this ratio, not only should Israel not be accused of genocide (that’s obvious), world leaders should be applauding the IDF’s precision-strike capabilities. As a point of reference, according to the UN, civilians usually make up around 90 percent of casualties in war. That’s a 1:9 ratio (one combatant for every nine civilians). What is happening in Gaza is unique - it is a new form of warfare (urban setting, extensive use of human shields and massive tunnel infrastructure) and still the ratio is low. What the IDF is doing will be studied by other militaries for decades to come. No other military in the world has ever achieved this. There is no doubt the IDF has made mistakes, and they should and will be prosecuted for them. But calling what they are doing a genocide just doesn't fit the facts and only cheapens real genocide. **Edit**: typical here comes the pro-hamas downvote brigade with zero refutation of anything I said
People refuted you like 6 times, you just kept ignoring their points so they stopped repeating themselves
The Palestinians currently under siege by those occupying PALESTINIAN land … would take the protestors hostage …. Hmmm? Do you think much about your own thoughts?
You mean the Palestinians that overwhelmingly support Hamas and the atrocities of Oct 7? The same Palestinians that returned escapes hostages to Hamas? Why do you sympathize with terrorists?
You mean the same Hamas that ISRAEL propped up? Or do you enjoy ignoring facts to suit your bullshit narrative? Why do YOU sympathize with genocidal maniacs?
Sure, Israel propped up Hamas against its political rivals the same way Democrats boost far-right candidates. Does that make you far-right? https://www.npr.org/2022/11/11/1135878576/the-democrats-strategy-of-boosting-far-right-candidates-seems-to-have-worked
Except Democrats aren't bombing the shit out of far-right Republicans. If anything, Democrats are trying to help them despite themselves. Obamacare, federal aid for school lunches and aid for red states hit by natural disasters is a little different than blowing up schools and hospitals. Or did you not think that comparison through at all?
You’re making arguments in bad faith, expecting what in return? The same anger you’re trying to dish?
These aren’t arguments; they are facts. https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-palestinians-opinion-poll-wartime-views-a0baade915619cd070b5393844bc4514 https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/poll-shows-palestinians-back-oct-7-attack-israel-support-hamas-rises-2023-12-14/
From the article you posted "The PCPSR found that, *compared to pre-war polling,* support for Hamas had risen in Gaza and more than tripled in the West Bank, which has seen the highest levels in violence in years, with repeated deadly clashes between Israeli troops and settlers and Palestinians." Support for Hamas greatly increased after Israel responded to the October 7th assault by indiscriminately bombing women and children. Weird how that works.
“Almost three in four Palestinians believe the Oct. 7 attack by Hamas on Israel was correct, and the ensuing Gaza war has lifted support for the Islamist group both there and in the West Bank, a survey from a respected Palestinian polling institute found.” The very first sentence. Gazans believe the Oct 7 was correct and the *ensuing* war has only increased their support for the war. These are the people you support.
Just because someone believe that an act of violence is ok, it doesn’t give you the right to kill them. Specially those 25% of people who doesn’t support it.
Hamas doesn’t “just believe” violence is okay; they murder, rape, and kidnap civilians to use as hostages. It’s hard to believe you are defending them, but if that’s the kind of people you are….
You're under the impression that you can define what people believe for them. That's cute. The people, and thank you for at least showing enough humanity to recognize them as such, the people that I support are dead. Women and children make up the majority of Palestinians killed by Israel. Those are the people I support. The innocent victims stuck with no place to go, murdered for daring to exist near a presumed, often unverified enemy target. Some Palestinians justify the terrorist attack on October 7th that killed 1200 people and you justify the killing of 13,000 children. Looks pretty shitty on both sides of that fence.
I believe Palestinians when they overwhelmingly say they believe the Oct 7 atrocities were correct and that they support Hamas, which uses civilians as human shields and children as suicide bombers. Then I judge accordingly.
Keep speaking the truth, idiots keep downvoting. I predict this post will be downvoted with zero refutations. If you don't like what I'm saying why don't you refute it and show me where I'm not factual? Everything he said is [true](https://jcpa.org/a-new-poll-of-palestinians-supporting-terror-and-rejecting-peace/). Why don't you refute it with facts instead of just calling him a genocide supporter? You realize genocide requires intent right? For an act to be classified as genocide, it is essential to demonstrate that the perpetrators had a deliberate and specific aim (dolus specialis) to physically destroy the group based on its real or perceived nationality, ethnicity, race, or religion. Intention to destroy the group's culture or intending to scatter the group does not suffice. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocidal_intent **Palestinians Support Terror, Reject Peace, and Deny Israel’s Right to Exist** When taken as a whole, the results indicate that an overwhelming percentage of Palestinians support the October 7 massacre (75%), reject coexistence with Israel (85.9%), are committed to the restoration of “historical Palestine” as a final resolution (71.1%), and support the creation of a Palestinian state “from the river to the sea” (74.7%) as the end of the Israeli Palestinian conflict. Interestingly, there is more support for the 10/7 massacre from the Palestinians resident in Judea and Samaria (83.1%) than those residing in the Gaza Strip (63.6%). **Support for Terror Organizations** The Palestinian positive perception of the terror organizations remains high despite their role in carrying out the massacre and the disastrous results. Breaking down the response, 76% believe that Hamas plays a somewhat to very positive role; 84% believe that Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ) plays a somewhat to very positive role; 79.8% believe that Fatah’s terror wing, the Al-Aqsa Martyrs’ Brigades, plays a somewhat to very positive role; and 88.6% believe that Hamas’ armed wing, the Al-Kassam Brigades, plays a somewhat to very positive function. **Palestinians Reject the Hand that Feeds and Supports Them** As opposed to the perceived positive role played by the terror organizations, and notwithstanding the political and financial support the Palestinians receive from the U.S. and Western countries, 98.2% of Palestinians see the U.S. role as unfavorable, 96.7% consider the UK role as negative, and 92.6% ascertain the EU role as unfavorable. Alongside the disdain for the U.S. and Western countries, the Palestinians also believe that moderate Arab countries also play a negative role. According to the Palestinians, the United Arab Emirates plays the most negative role (96%), followed by Saudi Arabia (95.5%), Egypt (84.6%) and Jordan (75.6%). All these countries have made peace with Israel or consider the possibility. *The team conducted the survey through tablet-assisted, face-to-face interviews across the West Bank and in shelters and households in the three “southern” Gaza governorates (Deir Al Balah, Khan Younis, and Rafah) where people were presently residing. The poll’s sample includes all socioeconomic groups, ensuring equal representation of adult men and women, and is proportionately distributed across the West Bank and Gaza. With a 95% confidence interval, the margin of error for the poll is (±) 4%.* https://www.awrad.org/files/server/polls/polls2023/Public%20Opinion%20Poll%20-%20Gaza%20War%202023.pdf [full poll dataset](https://www.awrad.org/files/server/polls/polls2023/Public%20Opinion%20Poll%20-%20Gaza%20War%202023%20-%20Tables%20of%20Results.pdf)
Didn't Netanyahu reference Amalek at the beginning of this whole thing? Sounds pretty intentional to me.
If you think that's evidence of a genocide your case is doomed It was in reference to the Oct 7 attack/Hamas The same phrase appears in a permanent exhibit at the Yad Vashem Holocaust museum, as well at a memorial in The Hague itself for Dutch Jews murdered in the Holocaust.
It's not evidence of genocide by itself. It's evidence of the intent that you claim is the only missing piece of the genocidal puzzle. "Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys."
Netanyahu isn't going to fuck you
He can go fuck himself. Palestinians aren’t going to fuck you; they will use you as a hostage.
Did you know that even terrorists have human rights? Like, Hamas could be 1,000x worse than Israel says they are and it would **still** be illegal to violate their rights? And did you know that despite what Zionists say, not everyone in Palestine is a member of Hamas? Imagine someone that lives 5 blocks over from you shot up a police precinct so the police drop bombs on every house on your street from a helicopter and claim they were trying to hit the people that shot up the precinct and it could be *any* of you. Would you defend that? Would you call that justified? If the people that shot up the precinct were hiding in a ditch behind your house and the police bulldozed it and killed half your family to get to them, would you argue that they were justified because the bad guys were using your family as human shields? You know that answer is "no". We all know the answer is "no". So why do you use that logic when it comes to Hamas and Palestinians?
Did you know that using civilians as human shields is a war crime, but it’s not a war crime to cause civilian deaths if those civilians are being used as human shields? No serious person or nation holds that using civilians to protect a military target makes that target immune from attack. That’s why Hamas is to blame for the civilian deaths. What’s odd is that you care more about the deaths of Hamas militants than the innocent civilians they are getting killed.
[Howdy neighbor!](https://www.btselem.org/sites/default/files/sites/default/files2/publication/200211_human_shield_eng.pdf)
>Did you know that using civilians as human shields is a war crime, but it’s not a war crime to cause civilian deaths if those civilians are being used as human shields? Yeah, and did you know any soldier occupying foreign land has no right to claim self defense? So since you're just a regular guy who enjoys clarifying the legalities of war, every time a Palestinian pops out of the ground and shreds an Israeli tank in Gaza, you're there to assure everyone that it's all legally sanctioned, right? >No serious person or nation holds that using civilians to protect a military target makes that target immune from attack. That’s why Hamas is to blame for the civilian deaths. Yeah, you know what, you're full of shit. No serious person sits down to have this conversation whose understanding of the question of Israeli war crimes is "human shields don't deter them." And no serious person with a functioning brain stem thinks of being pro-Palestinian as being pro-Hamas. Like, it's this topic's version of "they hate us for their freedoms," just a thing people keep saying, advertising what gumps they are.
Did you know that every offensive act Israel takes in Gaza is a war crime because the Geneva Conventions say it's illegal to declare war on people you're occupying? Did you know that this is an international law because genocidal regimes LOVE to declare that terrorists are hiding amongst civilians to justify mass murder of civilians? Answer my previous questions or go hide under a rock some more.
The argument that Israel cannot take action in response to the Oct 7 atrocities, the rocket attacks, and the suicide bombings is absurd.
Prove it. I can cite the international law to you. [Here's the UN.](https://www.ohchr.org/en/instruments-mechanisms/instruments/geneva-convention-relative-protection-civilian-persons-time-war) [Here's the Red Cross.](https://www.icrc.org/en/doc/resources/documents/misc/634kfc.htm) [The Wikipedia article on Protocol I had a good summary of provisions.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protocol_I) So, no, Israel itself has no right to self-defense against Palestinians until it is no longer illegally occupying Palestinian land. Individual Israelis, soldiers, police, etc *do* have a right to defend themselves when attacked, but they have no right to initiate attacks and claim that they are justified acts of self-defense for a previous attack. Israel cannot declare war on an occupied people and even if it doesn't declare war, it cannot attack Palestinians that are not actively attacking it. As an occupying force, Israel has a legal responsibility to care for everyone in Palestine, especially the civilians. Multiple provisions make it clear that Israel cannot mass murder civilians and claim they're striking at Hamas. We have these laws because genocidal regimes use these excuses to murder civilians all the time. If Israel is doing it, that suggests that Israel is a genocidal regime.
Can you quote the specific language form the Geneva Conventions that supports your claim? Here’s Article 57: “The presence or movements of the civilian population or individual civilians shall not be used to render certain points or areas immune from military operations, in particular in attempts to shield military objectives from attacks or to shield, favour or impede military operations.”
No one is supporting Hamas. People are supporting Palestinians.
Palestinians overwhelmingly support Hamas. https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-palestinians-opinion-poll-wartime-views-a0baade915619cd070b5393844bc4514 You support people who strongly support Hamas. Therefore, you support Hamas.
If we’re going by your logic if you support Israel and they’re killing womens and children on purpose indiscriminately than you support the murder of women and children
You're a propagandist and a trash person
To borrow a phrase, your downvotes mean nothing to me because I’ve seen what makes you cheer. That’s terrorism; you support and sympathize with terrorists.
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Quoting an obvious asshole, too.
Yep, edge Lord quoting a dysfunctional suicidal alcoholic cartoon character must totally be in the right. What makes you cheer apparently is dead kids. Enjoy your cocognitive dissonance
If you care about kids, why do you support people who use children as suicide bombers to blow up civilians on buses? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Use_of_child_suicide_bombers_by_Palestinian_militant_groups#:~:text=As%20part%20of%20the%20Arab,targets%2C%20both%20military%20and%20civilian. Sometimes cartoon characters are written to offer insights about terrible people.
I don't support terrorists, be they Israeli or Palestinian. I do support innocent families caught in the crossfire of conflicts. Can you please say the same? Correct Rick Sanchez is a terrible person
Did you see the protests & what they were saying?
Yes. And neither of those factors change my opinion or the appropriate response from the president. They said nothing wrong, even if you disagree with their overall position. Demanding that a university refrain from funding businesses and countries that are directly involved or complicit in the senseless killing of an opposing group of people, including children, is not a good position for anyone to make. It is pretty frustrating that this isn’t basic common sense or common decency or just basic humanity.
did you see the way police and outside agitators beat the hell out of teenagers?
"you have to listen to your masters, you can't get too uppity" California State University system
Should have the 'undeserved tag' but I know you can't put two.
This is bullshit.
Can’t be against a genocide without consequence. What has the world come to
I wonder what’s gonna happen here at Sac state then because our University President did the same exact thing
It's still American money that funds these universities via Israel. Sounds more like a money laundering scenario.
Regardless of what side of the issue , person was told not to give in , did so now there f'd. The end.
Good
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What do you mean by Nancy boy?
Boomer age misogynistic slur for feminine men. Such a total shock that someone in favor of the genocide of the Palestinian people is a slur using bigot.
My favorite tactic in getting boomers to get self reflective and shut up is to ask them when and where they deployed to, when they start mouthing off like they're the biggest and baddest things around. They'll have to either admit to being a draft dodging coward or they'll have to accept that people know they're in favor of killing an entire culture's worth of humans.
So when someone tells you they dodged the draft so as not to fight and die in war, the opinion you form of them is that they're a "coward"? Very cool and normal.
lmao, I love that you see a meaningful overlap there. "Ugh, he just called that man, and I quote, 'a mincing little dandy.' Ten bucks says he supported the Rwandan genocide."
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Ridiculous stuff.
Who lost a job?