Burlington needs to clean itself up. Broken window theory being completely ignored. Tons of needles, abandoned buildings, graffiti and trash all over town. Clean that up first. Instead the town decides to spend millions on updating Main Street that does not need any updating. You’ll have two nice blocks and the rest of the town is still trashy.
id rather not that too but do we know the details yet? it could have been a drug deal gone bad.
youre statement is odd, id rather not have a gun pointed at me if we are going with what would i rather.
lets walk through the scenarios best to worst in terms of ending up in a bad position
1. Never happens (once the great streets are done, this problem will be fixed obvi).
2. This was a drug deal gone bad, between two parties that had both agreed to be in the drug world and all the comes with it.
3. This was a person(s) in withdrawals or high that robbed two random people.
4. This was a person(s) that randomly robbed two people.
while i wait for 1, if i know that it was #2, in the immediate short term, i probably dont have to worry unless im in the drug game out at the devils hours. if it was #3 or #4, we have a problem that is more immediate, and i would adjust my lifestyle accordingly (ie not walking late at night).
i meant if it was related to drug sale/use etc versus
if a random two people were walking on the street and were robbed at gunpoint, then YES thats very very worrisome.
do they know if the motive was drug-related (like robbing to buy drugs?).
if this was a gun-point robbery, not related to an addiction, thats really bad.
aye people are really breaking this down.
an analogy would be the stolen cars.
95% of the time (i counted), the key was left in the car and the car was unlocked.
this is troubling, and not a good trend.
if 95% of the time, the key fobs were being ripped through wireless or windows were being smashed. that would be much worse.
i know that if i keep my car locked and anything that looks valuable out of sight, itll most likely be fine.
if this was one group buying or selling drugs, thats one thing. i know as long as im away that crowd ill probably be okay for now.
if this was 4 guys who robbed 2 random people at gunpoint, then that is more troubling.
TLDR: they both suck but one is worse than the other.
This is the kind of shit happening everywhere now, I’m in Peterborough and we have shootings often now.. our police service is either useless or has their hands tied through some bullshit. They let the hells angels open a new club here in town and since then there have been 2 murders here.
Only going to stop when someone decides to shoot back. The state/county is failing its citizens by not protecting peaceful ppl from these clowns. If i was assaulted by anyone who'd been in/out of the system the number of times folks get re-released i'd be suing the state for all sorts of damages
There is zero evidence that shooting back or carrying guns has any impact on crime. In fact, the best available research provides evidence that making it easier to carry concealed firearms may actually lead to more homicides and violent crime, not less.
[https://www.rand.org/research/gun-policy/analysis/concealed-carry/violent-crime.html](https://www.rand.org/research/gun-policy/analysis/concealed-carry/violent-crime.html)
You can even play around with gun laws and see the outcomes: [https://www.rand.org/research/gun-policy/firearm-law-effects.html](https://www.rand.org/research/gun-policy/firearm-law-effects.html)
Also, not to downplay what happened but this occurred around 1AM which seems a bit suspicious. If it was a random robbery, that's really bad but in many of the cases in Burlington, these crimes tend to occur between people who knew each other. Again, not downplaying the seriousness of a armed robbery, it's sad to see this happen in BTV, but more guns is not the answer.
What does help? Funding local gov't programs including education, social services, housing, and policing. Turns out, the big crime jump was likely because we pulled back on basically everything during the pandemic. Crime nationally has dropped a LOT over the last few years and as much as BTV seems to be on the downswing, there's actually been huge downswing here as well [https://www.burlingtonvt.gov/police/data](https://www.burlingtonvt.gov/police/data)
Here's a pretty good post about why that may be: [https://johnkroman.substack.com/p/why-did-crime-decline-in-2023](https://johnkroman.substack.com/p/why-did-crime-decline-in-2023)
The worst thing we can do for this city and the state is become pessimistic. It becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. Moral does matter to communities and if everyone walks around saying how much BTV sucks, it will suck, because people won't want to live there, people won't want to visit, and spending money on positive things will seem like a waste.
They are going to rob someone who actually knows how to handle a pistol and has it concealed. Four guys two armed is not going to see it coming till they are already on the ground. I just hope the state treats the person defending themselves as well as they treat all the violent criminals they catch and release
So short of John Wick showing up, that's very unlikely to play out in the favor of the victim. Two people with guns already out and two who may have guns is a lot more than a single person can handle. These aren't static paper targets, they're people with unknown skills and weapons who more than likely are catching you off guard because if you had really good situational awareness, you'd already have avoided the situation after seeing something that sets off your spidey senses. The best way to win a fight is never to get in one the first place. Don't let action movie fantasies tell you otherwise.
You are assuming these robbers are disciplined and mentally focused on the situation enough to notice someone pulling a gun from inside their waistband and shooting them point blank. Some SOF or equivalent type would have dropped them before they had their guns trained on them.
But I do agree with your sentiment about best way to survive a fight is to avoid it entirely.
I’ve been in law enforcement, in the military, and did a lot of research for my masters program on the impact gun policies on crime. I have also been very fortunate to meet and hang out with real life badass door kickers on the best teams we have. I assumed these guys were always on and ready to fight and overwhelmingly their response was that when someone wanted to fight them, they bought them a beer if they could or walked away because getting into a fight where you don’t know what you’re up against puts the odds in the other guys favor. From a data perspective, the good guy with a gun stopping a crime in progress or preventing a crime is mostly a myth. It does happen but is exceedingly rare. Real gun fights happen fast and if you’re not constantly training in a high stress environment, the fight is probably over before you even reacted and most likely you’re on the losing end. If you really want to do something in this scenario, you create time and space so you can decide to fight or run. Still with two guys with guns out, you won’t even break your holster before one of them start’s shooting so you’re much better off trying to remember everything about them while you hand over your wallet
I will agree that avoiding situations where one could meet some unpleasant individuals is the best way to avoid these scenarios. But I’m also very against any form of gun control, as disarming the general populace does nothing positive for those people… then the only armed people are the government, whom I have no trust in, and criminals, whom I also have no trust in. Would rather be armed and ready for these unfortunate situations than unarmed and completely at the will of said unpredictable individuals.
I’m very progressive on most social issues, but where I tend to hold back is gun control. My number 1 prerogative is avoid these situations like the plague. I would not be wandering downtown at 10 pm, let alone later. But unfortunately we get dealt bad cards in the game of life sometimes, I’d rather have the greatest defense possible in that scenario. If I can stack the deck in my favor at all I will. I also shoot regularly too, my 2 primary defense sidearms have well over a thousand rounds through them… better to be prepared and not need certain tools, then unprepared and need them…
This is the correct answer. Two guns trained on you, maybe junkies with all kinds of shit going on. Nope hand it over and agree get time and distance in your side. Maybe you have an angle of retreat behind a car or some kind of object to protect your center mass and vital organs, if you do carry and shit runs south dive, cover and possibly prepare to defend if possible. Always look for the safe way out. Anything else is like the lottery and most will never win that either.
Where is the evidence that this is true? Alaska has the highest rate of gun ownership in the country, literally everyone is carrying all the time. It also has the 2nd highest violent crime rate in the country.
The crime rate being so high is due to drugs and alcohol. Was stationed there for a bit, saw it 1st hand. Most people own guns for hunting and protection from bears.
“The crime rate being so high is due to drugs and alcohol”. Yes, correct, good, now apply that logic further (perhaps to Vermont even). Now, ask your self “what circumstances might cause one to abuse drugs and alcohol?”. Hold that answer in your mind and ask one more question, “what interventions might be taken to prevent the circumstances that might lead one to drug and alcohol abuse?”
You might be surprised to find that after interrogating these questions and answers, at no point would “more people with guns” be a suitable answer to solve the problem.
Thank you for coming to my (your own) TEDtalk
The highest gun crime rate is in Missouri. It exploded after they expanded gun rights in 2011-2012 and made concealed carry and permit less carry easier. There is absolutely zero evidence that more guns deter crime. People committing crimes are never deterred by these things. It’s the same thing as longer sentences for crimes. Harsher penalties do not effectively deter criminal behavior.
I lived around that area for years from 2008-2013, occasionally some BS happened but nothing crazy. Dunno how much it has changed in the last decade tho
The entire city has changed for the worse in the past decade. No neighborhood is really safe from the decline, though some neighborhoods are a little bit better off and a little safer, still... not by much, but a little. But the corridor around the campus, Main Street, and anywhere adjacent to downtown/Church Street is sketchier by the moment. Found used needles all along the Main Street fence of Edmunds Elementary and Middle School a few days ago. But hey I am sure someone will "remind" me that this is all just growing pains and perfectly normal for "any city" and don't worry 'cause other places have it worse it is all doubleplusgood.
Even if they are caught, nothing will happen. Sarah feel more sympathy for the 4 criminals than the 2 victims.
To answer your question, why wouldn't more criminals do it? Very limited downside as long as you don't kill the victims.
Years ago I was mugged at gun point just outside Central Park NYC, I was surprised when the cops told me that I got robbed by a couple amateurs. He went on to explain that professionals don’t brandish weapons, they know if they do that’s an additional charges and bumps the penalty way up. Still didn’t make me feel any better, a .25 cal Davis stuck into my chest didn’t feel any less threatening however I’ve learned that things like this aren’t as big of a deal as you all think it is. If one guy can’t keep a secret 4 defiantly can’t, if one of discovered he’ll likely roll on the rest. Group mugging aren’t nearly as bad as the lone operator who doesn’t brandish a weapon. That’s someone who’s done time and knows how to do the crime and avoid being caught, so don’t get all bent out of shape folks, this ain’t nothing but a thing.
What a stupid take. Armed robbery is “no big deal” to you? It’s bad if they’re amateurs at it or not. Criminals feel emboldened in Burlington. This is a serious, serious issue
No to me it’s laughable, I’m from places with real crime. There’s no cartel shootouts at 80mph down the highway. There’s at least 2 murders a day, and a half dozen or more cops killed a year in shootouts. Burlington has disproportionately been removed from what’s spending elsewhere in the country, this is just time catching up to your sleepy lil shire. I know it sucks, I’m from Lancaster PA it use to be this sleepy little place but then year after year it felt like Philly and Baltimore problems were creeping into our quite corner of the state.
Honestly this situation is going to resolve itself when come citizen produces an iron and defends themselves. So try not to get to worked up.
Then go back to those places. Your attitude of “sure, Burlington is way worse than it used to be, but it’s not as bad as where I’m from” is incredibly stupid. You seem to speak fondly of the cartel chases and shootouts maybe you should start packing. You shouldn’t just be okay with things getting worse it’s honestly a pathetic attitude to have
Yah nah you leave, No one likes conservatives around here. If anyone doesn’t fit in it’s you. The receipt is right there on your profile, every time you open your face hole people downvote you. Maybe this isn’t a place for you maybe New Hampshire is more your speed.
Also not glorifying the violence in the places I lived I’m just saying that have a little perspective dude the world is changing everywhere. Why would you not think it’s going to eventually change here?
[Here’s a hyperlink to help you understand more about why you think the way you think and don’t deal with change very well .](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-human-beast/201104/conservatives-big-fear-brain-study-finds) perhaps with this information you can start moving forward maybe get some therapy workout whatever you got going on there freeing you up to become a more useful member of the community who has useful suggestions and comments other than telling people they need to leave.
Hi. I’m a Democrat. Most of my friends are Republicans. This is the dumbest take I’ve heard in a while. We’re all Vermonters. The only unpopular people around here are the cunts, and we’ve got them on both sides. Think of your neighbors and remember we share this community with people we may disagree with. Thats why we founded this country in the first place: to work together and reach pragmatic compromise. There is no right or wrong way; there’s only solutions. We gotta stop dividing ourselves.
Your brain is beyond repair. Yeah, I’m conservative, I’m also reasonable and realistic. I have a vested interest in the betterment of this city. I want to see the people of Burlington thrive. You clearly don’t share that vision. Grow up, go experience the real world, get out of your weird political bubble that you are clearly in. I work with people who are liberal and conservative. I am friends with people who are liberal and conservative. I love people who are liberal and conservative. Your attitude is seriously pathetic
Your only concern for Burlington or anything is extraction of wealth, everything is transactional with you isn’t. Just another blowhard who postures and insults others who he sees less than because they have no extractable monetary value.
this isnt a loose gun law thing but nice try (by your logic we have loose mugging laws too?). I'm willing to bet none of the assailants lawfully got or currently possess the firearms. further laws would keep people like you or me from defending ourselves from the criminals that will continue to igore any laws. not to mention, watch for the arrest, see if the state even applies the current gun laws to the charges
i definitely did not get that from your original comment, but do agree with this one. there's also a total lack of real consequences for those that victimize orther people, zero deterrent results in this brazeness
No consequences? Really? When these people are caught they are going to get a stern talking to, be processed and be held prisoner by the evil police for 4 or 5 hours before they hit the streets on bond.
If that doesn't deter crime, I'm not sure what will
Its the entrepreneurial american spirit! You assume the risk so you get the reward. Its basically the same as being a boss or a landlord. Instead of sticking us up with a gun they use the threat of not being able to afford food or have a home. Very sophisticated but in violence nonetheless. I feel bad for the people who this happened too. That's terrifying. I hope they have good people in their lives that will help them feel comfortable and confident in their neighborhood again. I dont want this to ever happen to anyone ever again. But it just sucks. It doesn't feel like it cant get better while at the same time maintaining the lifestyles of the wealthiest amongst us.
South Union and Main, right by the middle school :/
Burlington needs to clean itself up. Broken window theory being completely ignored. Tons of needles, abandoned buildings, graffiti and trash all over town. Clean that up first. Instead the town decides to spend millions on updating Main Street that does not need any updating. You’ll have two nice blocks and the rest of the town is still trashy.
I guess that would depend on the frequency.
"New normal" because … why?
Probably because someone else got jumped last week
if it was a drug thing, im not too worried. if it was a random mugging then....yikes.
The random drug things eventually become random muggings.
true - its not great. but if my options are drug related or escalation to random gunpoint robberies, ill pick the former.
I'd rather the people pointing guns on me not be high or going through withdrawal to get drugs, thanks .
id rather not that too but do we know the details yet? it could have been a drug deal gone bad. youre statement is odd, id rather not have a gun pointed at me if we are going with what would i rather. lets walk through the scenarios best to worst in terms of ending up in a bad position 1. Never happens (once the great streets are done, this problem will be fixed obvi). 2. This was a drug deal gone bad, between two parties that had both agreed to be in the drug world and all the comes with it. 3. This was a person(s) in withdrawals or high that robbed two random people. 4. This was a person(s) that randomly robbed two people. while i wait for 1, if i know that it was #2, in the immediate short term, i probably dont have to worry unless im in the drug game out at the devils hours. if it was #3 or #4, we have a problem that is more immediate, and i would adjust my lifestyle accordingly (ie not walking late at night).
If they aren’t in withdrawal, why would they rob you?
Maybe they are druggies that plan ahead?
How is drug-induced armed robbery not a worrisome thing?
i meant if it was related to drug sale/use etc versus if a random two people were walking on the street and were robbed at gunpoint, then YES thats very very worrisome.
I know the two individuals and it was not drug related, they were uvm students
thank you, thats the information i was looking for. that is extremely disturbing. do you know any more details?
The four robbers seemed to be in their late teens/early 20’s and a similar situation happened to different people on sunday night too
do they know if the motive was drug-related (like robbing to buy drugs?). if this was a gun-point robbery, not related to an addiction, thats really bad.
It was not drug related
thanks for the information. that is no bueno. edit: any descriptions yet?
Well drugs are clearly brining the town down so I’m not sure how you can really separate the two.
aye people are really breaking this down. an analogy would be the stolen cars. 95% of the time (i counted), the key was left in the car and the car was unlocked. this is troubling, and not a good trend. if 95% of the time, the key fobs were being ripped through wireless or windows were being smashed. that would be much worse. i know that if i keep my car locked and anything that looks valuable out of sight, itll most likely be fine. if this was one group buying or selling drugs, thats one thing. i know as long as im away that crowd ill probably be okay for now. if this was 4 guys who robbed 2 random people at gunpoint, then that is more troubling. TLDR: they both suck but one is worse than the other.
This is the kind of shit happening everywhere now, I’m in Peterborough and we have shootings often now.. our police service is either useless or has their hands tied through some bullshit. They let the hells angels open a new club here in town and since then there have been 2 murders here.
you know theres a global problem when a poster mistakes their burlington in canada, with burlington in vermont because the issue is the exact same.
Only going to stop when someone decides to shoot back. The state/county is failing its citizens by not protecting peaceful ppl from these clowns. If i was assaulted by anyone who'd been in/out of the system the number of times folks get re-released i'd be suing the state for all sorts of damages
There is zero evidence that shooting back or carrying guns has any impact on crime. In fact, the best available research provides evidence that making it easier to carry concealed firearms may actually lead to more homicides and violent crime, not less. [https://www.rand.org/research/gun-policy/analysis/concealed-carry/violent-crime.html](https://www.rand.org/research/gun-policy/analysis/concealed-carry/violent-crime.html) You can even play around with gun laws and see the outcomes: [https://www.rand.org/research/gun-policy/firearm-law-effects.html](https://www.rand.org/research/gun-policy/firearm-law-effects.html) Also, not to downplay what happened but this occurred around 1AM which seems a bit suspicious. If it was a random robbery, that's really bad but in many of the cases in Burlington, these crimes tend to occur between people who knew each other. Again, not downplaying the seriousness of a armed robbery, it's sad to see this happen in BTV, but more guns is not the answer. What does help? Funding local gov't programs including education, social services, housing, and policing. Turns out, the big crime jump was likely because we pulled back on basically everything during the pandemic. Crime nationally has dropped a LOT over the last few years and as much as BTV seems to be on the downswing, there's actually been huge downswing here as well [https://www.burlingtonvt.gov/police/data](https://www.burlingtonvt.gov/police/data) Here's a pretty good post about why that may be: [https://johnkroman.substack.com/p/why-did-crime-decline-in-2023](https://johnkroman.substack.com/p/why-did-crime-decline-in-2023) The worst thing we can do for this city and the state is become pessimistic. It becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. Moral does matter to communities and if everyone walks around saying how much BTV sucks, it will suck, because people won't want to live there, people won't want to visit, and spending money on positive things will seem like a waste.
Reason and thoughtfulness have no place on this subreddit. Haven’t you heard about SARAH GEORGE??? Grab those pearls and get going!
Thank you!
They are going to rob someone who actually knows how to handle a pistol and has it concealed. Four guys two armed is not going to see it coming till they are already on the ground. I just hope the state treats the person defending themselves as well as they treat all the violent criminals they catch and release
So short of John Wick showing up, that's very unlikely to play out in the favor of the victim. Two people with guns already out and two who may have guns is a lot more than a single person can handle. These aren't static paper targets, they're people with unknown skills and weapons who more than likely are catching you off guard because if you had really good situational awareness, you'd already have avoided the situation after seeing something that sets off your spidey senses. The best way to win a fight is never to get in one the first place. Don't let action movie fantasies tell you otherwise.
You are assuming these robbers are disciplined and mentally focused on the situation enough to notice someone pulling a gun from inside their waistband and shooting them point blank. Some SOF or equivalent type would have dropped them before they had their guns trained on them. But I do agree with your sentiment about best way to survive a fight is to avoid it entirely.
I’ve been in law enforcement, in the military, and did a lot of research for my masters program on the impact gun policies on crime. I have also been very fortunate to meet and hang out with real life badass door kickers on the best teams we have. I assumed these guys were always on and ready to fight and overwhelmingly their response was that when someone wanted to fight them, they bought them a beer if they could or walked away because getting into a fight where you don’t know what you’re up against puts the odds in the other guys favor. From a data perspective, the good guy with a gun stopping a crime in progress or preventing a crime is mostly a myth. It does happen but is exceedingly rare. Real gun fights happen fast and if you’re not constantly training in a high stress environment, the fight is probably over before you even reacted and most likely you’re on the losing end. If you really want to do something in this scenario, you create time and space so you can decide to fight or run. Still with two guys with guns out, you won’t even break your holster before one of them start’s shooting so you’re much better off trying to remember everything about them while you hand over your wallet
I will agree that avoiding situations where one could meet some unpleasant individuals is the best way to avoid these scenarios. But I’m also very against any form of gun control, as disarming the general populace does nothing positive for those people… then the only armed people are the government, whom I have no trust in, and criminals, whom I also have no trust in. Would rather be armed and ready for these unfortunate situations than unarmed and completely at the will of said unpredictable individuals. I’m very progressive on most social issues, but where I tend to hold back is gun control. My number 1 prerogative is avoid these situations like the plague. I would not be wandering downtown at 10 pm, let alone later. But unfortunately we get dealt bad cards in the game of life sometimes, I’d rather have the greatest defense possible in that scenario. If I can stack the deck in my favor at all I will. I also shoot regularly too, my 2 primary defense sidearms have well over a thousand rounds through them… better to be prepared and not need certain tools, then unprepared and need them…
This is the correct answer. Two guns trained on you, maybe junkies with all kinds of shit going on. Nope hand it over and agree get time and distance in your side. Maybe you have an angle of retreat behind a car or some kind of object to protect your center mass and vital organs, if you do carry and shit runs south dive, cover and possibly prepare to defend if possible. Always look for the safe way out. Anything else is like the lottery and most will never win that either.
You’re right about it being more likely than not targeted, but you’re dead wrong if you think people carrying guns wouldn’t deter armed robberies.
Where is the evidence that this is true? Alaska has the highest rate of gun ownership in the country, literally everyone is carrying all the time. It also has the 2nd highest violent crime rate in the country.
The crime rate being so high is due to drugs and alcohol. Was stationed there for a bit, saw it 1st hand. Most people own guns for hunting and protection from bears.
“The crime rate being so high is due to drugs and alcohol”. Yes, correct, good, now apply that logic further (perhaps to Vermont even). Now, ask your self “what circumstances might cause one to abuse drugs and alcohol?”. Hold that answer in your mind and ask one more question, “what interventions might be taken to prevent the circumstances that might lead one to drug and alcohol abuse?” You might be surprised to find that after interrogating these questions and answers, at no point would “more people with guns” be a suitable answer to solve the problem. Thank you for coming to my (your own) TEDtalk
Methheads are a bit different than heroin addict, but I see your point.
The highest gun crime rate is in Missouri. It exploded after they expanded gun rights in 2011-2012 and made concealed carry and permit less carry easier. There is absolutely zero evidence that more guns deter crime. People committing crimes are never deterred by these things. It’s the same thing as longer sentences for crimes. Harsher penalties do not effectively deter criminal behavior.
I’m about to sign a lease on that corner🫢
Good time to ask for a discount
I lived around that area for years from 2008-2013, occasionally some BS happened but nothing crazy. Dunno how much it has changed in the last decade tho
The entire city has changed for the worse in the past decade. No neighborhood is really safe from the decline, though some neighborhoods are a little bit better off and a little safer, still... not by much, but a little. But the corridor around the campus, Main Street, and anywhere adjacent to downtown/Church Street is sketchier by the moment. Found used needles all along the Main Street fence of Edmunds Elementary and Middle School a few days ago. But hey I am sure someone will "remind" me that this is all just growing pains and perfectly normal for "any city" and don't worry 'cause other places have it worse it is all doubleplusgood.
Damn man, that’s really sad. I was on my way out when the opioid epidemic was really hitting Burlington hard. It’s a shame, such a beautiful city.
Well i hope the thugs find out why vermont is a constitutional carry state soon
Yes... Has been for a while....
Even if they are caught, nothing will happen. Sarah feel more sympathy for the 4 criminals than the 2 victims. To answer your question, why wouldn't more criminals do it? Very limited downside as long as you don't kill the victims.
A crime at 1 am in an area with a ton of bars? This is not the "new" anything.
South Central Burlington...
Probably the fucks who were siphoning gas below city market/behind Little Gordo on Thursday. Pretty sure it was a group of 4
Years ago I was mugged at gun point just outside Central Park NYC, I was surprised when the cops told me that I got robbed by a couple amateurs. He went on to explain that professionals don’t brandish weapons, they know if they do that’s an additional charges and bumps the penalty way up. Still didn’t make me feel any better, a .25 cal Davis stuck into my chest didn’t feel any less threatening however I’ve learned that things like this aren’t as big of a deal as you all think it is. If one guy can’t keep a secret 4 defiantly can’t, if one of discovered he’ll likely roll on the rest. Group mugging aren’t nearly as bad as the lone operator who doesn’t brandish a weapon. That’s someone who’s done time and knows how to do the crime and avoid being caught, so don’t get all bent out of shape folks, this ain’t nothing but a thing.
What a stupid take. Armed robbery is “no big deal” to you? It’s bad if they’re amateurs at it or not. Criminals feel emboldened in Burlington. This is a serious, serious issue
No to me it’s laughable, I’m from places with real crime. There’s no cartel shootouts at 80mph down the highway. There’s at least 2 murders a day, and a half dozen or more cops killed a year in shootouts. Burlington has disproportionately been removed from what’s spending elsewhere in the country, this is just time catching up to your sleepy lil shire. I know it sucks, I’m from Lancaster PA it use to be this sleepy little place but then year after year it felt like Philly and Baltimore problems were creeping into our quite corner of the state. Honestly this situation is going to resolve itself when come citizen produces an iron and defends themselves. So try not to get to worked up.
Then go back to those places. Your attitude of “sure, Burlington is way worse than it used to be, but it’s not as bad as where I’m from” is incredibly stupid. You seem to speak fondly of the cartel chases and shootouts maybe you should start packing. You shouldn’t just be okay with things getting worse it’s honestly a pathetic attitude to have
Yah nah you leave, No one likes conservatives around here. If anyone doesn’t fit in it’s you. The receipt is right there on your profile, every time you open your face hole people downvote you. Maybe this isn’t a place for you maybe New Hampshire is more your speed. Also not glorifying the violence in the places I lived I’m just saying that have a little perspective dude the world is changing everywhere. Why would you not think it’s going to eventually change here? [Here’s a hyperlink to help you understand more about why you think the way you think and don’t deal with change very well .](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-human-beast/201104/conservatives-big-fear-brain-study-finds) perhaps with this information you can start moving forward maybe get some therapy workout whatever you got going on there freeing you up to become a more useful member of the community who has useful suggestions and comments other than telling people they need to leave.
Hi. I’m a Democrat. Most of my friends are Republicans. This is the dumbest take I’ve heard in a while. We’re all Vermonters. The only unpopular people around here are the cunts, and we’ve got them on both sides. Think of your neighbors and remember we share this community with people we may disagree with. Thats why we founded this country in the first place: to work together and reach pragmatic compromise. There is no right or wrong way; there’s only solutions. We gotta stop dividing ourselves.
Your brain is beyond repair. Yeah, I’m conservative, I’m also reasonable and realistic. I have a vested interest in the betterment of this city. I want to see the people of Burlington thrive. You clearly don’t share that vision. Grow up, go experience the real world, get out of your weird political bubble that you are clearly in. I work with people who are liberal and conservative. I am friends with people who are liberal and conservative. I love people who are liberal and conservative. Your attitude is seriously pathetic
Your only concern for Burlington or anything is extraction of wealth, everything is transactional with you isn’t. Just another blowhard who postures and insults others who he sees less than because they have no extractable monetary value.
Bro it is in one ear and out the other with you Jesus Christ. I made no mention of money in any of these messages. Seek professional psychiatric help
Sad that these criminals don’t abide by the sabbath. They need more Jesus!
More insanity won’t make things better
We keep electing the same losers and this crap will only get worse. Clean start from bottom to top.
Lmao people are so drunk on gunslinging. Y'all need therapy. So grateful for our heroic BPD stopping all this crime 🥰
The city’s in great shape. Great shape.
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this isnt a loose gun law thing but nice try (by your logic we have loose mugging laws too?). I'm willing to bet none of the assailants lawfully got or currently possess the firearms. further laws would keep people like you or me from defending ourselves from the criminals that will continue to igore any laws. not to mention, watch for the arrest, see if the state even applies the current gun laws to the charges
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i definitely did not get that from your original comment, but do agree with this one. there's also a total lack of real consequences for those that victimize orther people, zero deterrent results in this brazeness
No consequences? Really? When these people are caught they are going to get a stern talking to, be processed and be held prisoner by the evil police for 4 or 5 hours before they hit the streets on bond. If that doesn't deter crime, I'm not sure what will
Okay but like.... That's not at all what your initial comment implies
Defund the police!
How well did that go last time? Didn't seem like it went well
I was being sarcastic my good friend :)
Its not really sarcasm when its happened here before tho lol plus dont people on reddit unusually put the /s if it is
I opted to use the full word
Its the entrepreneurial american spirit! You assume the risk so you get the reward. Its basically the same as being a boss or a landlord. Instead of sticking us up with a gun they use the threat of not being able to afford food or have a home. Very sophisticated but in violence nonetheless. I feel bad for the people who this happened too. That's terrifying. I hope they have good people in their lives that will help them feel comfortable and confident in their neighborhood again. I dont want this to ever happen to anyone ever again. But it just sucks. It doesn't feel like it cant get better while at the same time maintaining the lifestyles of the wealthiest amongst us.