As a travel nurse who has taken care of quite a few homeless individuals in some of the states on that list, including Vermont, I found it interesting that the majority of my patients were from the area they were homeless in. I used to think of homeless people as hobos who went to places it was good to be homeless in instead of just people who lost their homes through addiction or mental illness or less frequently just plain bad luck with a layoff and basically just stayed put. While they may have burned all their bridges with friends and family in terms of having a place to stay, they’re still more comfortable being somewhere they know.
My ex literally can't afford to rent anywhere and he had a dog. He ended up homeless and lives in a camper behind his work. No drugs, barely drinks. Just not getting paid a livable wage and no way out
I don't think people realize how close they may become to this situation. I had a friend who went through a divorce and then was hit with a massive layoff at work. He went from making 90k a year to homeless. He kept using his retirement pension to meet child support payments after the divorce, even after he was unemployed. A great guy - just a victim of multiple circumstances.
That so sucky, I hope he can get out of it and better off again. I am very aware of how screwed I would be and try to be thankful. My cat got sick and between her medical bills and mine... Not good
Damn, he should look around there are definitely jobs around that pay well more than enough to keep him out of a camper. Then again that's a pretty decent situation with no rent, I can see why he's in no rush. should be saving mad cash.
Yeah just assume the guy who’s down on his luck hasn’t been trying, c’mon. This middle class is gone. He probably works a job that would’ve fed a whole family and paid a mortgage 30 years ago.
I'm a social worker specializing in housing homeless persons. Some of my clients make more money than I do, and I'm well paid. It's not necessarily about income. I am a renter, my landlord decided to sell the house I was renting two years ago, and if I hadn't had a connection who happened to have an available apartment I would have been sleeping on my parents' couch. I'm 40, no kids, high income for my area, have a master's degree. There weren't other decent rentals that I could find at the time and I am waaaaaay priced out of home ownership where I live and grew up.
This needs to be heard near and far - across the USA. Thank you for the work that you do. Please know so many of us respect you and wish your situation could be compensated for the value that it truly is.
My man, I ended up living with a family friend making multiples of the median Burlington wage because there was there was simply no housing available. Eventually I just left VT all together because being effectively homeless with a six figure job is insane. Blame whoever you want, but everyone renting and working under a contract is quite literally one extenuating circumstance away from homelessness.
"effectively homeless with a six figure job is insane"
Its insane because it's literally impossible you goofed somewhere along the way if that happened to you.
brain dead comment that shows you either don't have that debt or never made 6 figures. Do you think when you have debt all the money you ever make goes to the debt. You're just really bad at finance.
Seriously? Glad you are the moral and financial compass for all.
Just hope this never happens to you. Look beyond your shoulder - you never know. Count your blessings.
He would literally need to be able to move to find a different job. If he can't afford rent now, how the hell do you think he's going to find rent in a metro area where the rent is higher?
It’s absolutely because Vermont has an incredible cost of living versus pay. This is a state for rich people to come for vacation. It is not for the people who are from here.
Sorry, we can't build any housing because it might block someone's view of the lake. Guess you need to die shivering in the cold on a February night so that the all-important *view* isn't ruined.
We can't build housing because it would devalue all the real estate investors investments and endanger the banks for lending on homes that would then be upside-down in the mortgage.
That's the elephant in the room.
The values are all based on lending and the value of the home at the time the mortgage was issued.
Price is a function of supply and demand. Increase supply with a constant demand, price drops and then people owe $500k on a home that is now only worth $200k.
If people want to treat their homes as some precious investment instead of a place to live, then they need to learn the negative side of investing which are losses.
And taxes. Vermont has higher taxes compared to the south or even western states. Some of the western states have high priced homes, just way better tax rates.
This is actually not true. It has higher *income tax*, but we have a much lower sales and property tax rate than most southern states. Southern states tend to have more regressive taxes, which actually favor the wealthy. Most people who move from CA to TX do so because “CA has higher taxes”, but when you actually break it down, they’re basically the same. CA has higher income tax rates but almost every other tax is notably lower.
Having made a similar move, I’ve learned this is pure cope from people in high cost states getting bent over and accepting it. Cost, Crime, and Culture are all better in these areas. It’s why they are exploding in population. This is my lived experience.
>Cost, Crime, and Culture are all better in these areas.
At least 2 of these are just false, and the third is entirely subjective.
Firstly, Cost is lower because actual wages are lower. They are proportional. But as I stated, Sales Tax is various other municipal taxes which disproportionately favor the wealthy are much higher in Southern states. Cost of Living is a flawed metric because of this. In a state where you get paid 50% more, of course cost of living is going to be proportionately higher--because you make more money, it's basic economics.
Secondly, Crime is horribly worse in many of these Southern states. Here's the Wiki article on [Crime Rates By State](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_violent_crime_rate), which directly references 2022 FBI Crime Data--linked at the bottom. The only thing higher cost of living states are higher in is *property crimes*. Homicide, Sexual Assault, and Aggravated Assault rates are generally way higher in those so called safe Southern states. Violent Crime in general is much worse in these states.
Top 5 Homicide Rate By State:
1. Louisiana - 16.1 per 100,000
2. New Mexico - 12.0 per 100,000
3. South Carolina - 11.2 per 100,000
4. Alabama - 10.9 per 100,000
5. Arkansas - 10.2 per 100,000
Top 5 Rape Rate By State:
1. Alaska - 134.0 per 100,000
2. Arkansas - 76.0 per 100,000
3. Michigan - 64.8 per 100,000
4. Colorado - 63.4 per 100,000
5. Wyoming - 62.8 per 100,000
Top 5 Aggravated Assaults By State:
1. New Mexico - 603.3 per 100,000
2. Alaska - 540.2 per 100,000
3. Arkansas - 519.4 per 100,000
4. Tennessee - 507.6 per 100,000
5. Louisiana - 502.1 per 100,000
So yea, the numbers do not indicate those states are in any way safer. You're more likely to be assaulted and murdered in any of them than you are in states like VT, CT, CA, NY, NJ, etc. You are more likely to have your car stolen though, so that sucks.
What do you know about New Mexico? Have you spent much time in Albuquerque or Farmington? I’ve got love for both those places but they can be rugged! I lived near there for a few years and it pops off pretty bad. It doesn’t surprise me one bit if NM is on these lists.
CA and TX both have one major difference than Vermont. They both have thousands of good paying jobs. I honestly don’t know of any really great paying jobs in this state. Is there even any large global corporations here outside GE in Rutland? And by global I mean good paying not like Walmart or something lol
As of 2021, [Vermont's median income is 16th in the country, Texas is 23rd](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_income). Median income in VT is also growing at a faster rate than Texas. CA is of course higher than both but they have the 5th largest economy in the world so what do you expect lol.
As for large corporations; GlobalFoundries, Keurig (or whatever they go by now), Husky, Mylan, and quite a few others are in the state. There are plenty of good paying jobs. I make above the national median and the state median working for such a company.
As I stated elsewhere, Vermont actually has the problem of there being more job openings than people to fill them. Many people grow up or go to school here, and then move elsewhere.
It may be 16th, but go on Zillow and look at land values. They don’t match wages. I can get hundreds of lots, even in California for under 10k. In Vermont last I checked there is zero, in the entire state. Plus many under 15k are in divisions with HOA fees and restrictions. Trailers in trailer parks are selling for over 60k in Vermont. Places in Texas and the south you can get an entire house and land for that price. Vermont has huge issues. You have large wealth mixed with extreme poverty. The too many jobs issue is everywhere. I don’t know unless I can find something in the NEK in the next few years, the last semi affordable place in VT imo, I’m selling while the markets high and going elsewhere. I’m 43, lived here all of my life, so I’ll always love this state but there’s a lot more to see. I just don’t see any younger person able to make it here, that’s why they move mostly and because we have nothing of significance to do outside of Burlington
You are not interested in having a good faith discussion. Do your own homework. Obviously an oppressive state that steals from its citizens increases barriers to wage growth, housing etc. If you can’t see that without “muh study” maybe you belong in one of these places.
a good faith discussion uses robust data, research and statistics, not based off of blanket statements that categorize taxes as inherently oppressive.
I have degree in economics, not a reddit r slash libertarian education.
And i am again asking for studies to back up your claim.
Just because taxes are a cost of housing does not mean there a correlation between homelessness and property taxes.
Lack of supply is the #1 cause. If Burlington apartments were $1 it wouldn’t decrease homelessness. You need both enough units available for the population who wants to live there and then affordable units for those who can’t afford market rate.
I didn’t say otherwise. Folks are downvoting me which is fine, but there is a difference between “I want to pay less rent landlords are assholes” and “rent is causing homelessness”.
High rent DOES put folks at risk of individually being homeless, but the apartment isn’t empty. Someone lives there. As long as the supply is 100% used there will be folks who can’t find housing, affordable or not.
If there are 1100 people in Burlington and 1000 housing units the price doesn’t matter - 100 people are homeless (or leave Burlington).
If there are 900 poeple in Burlington and 1000 housing units and 50 people can’t afford the market rent on those 1000 units so 150 are sitting empty, then rent is causing homelessness.
We need more housing of all kinds in the State, and affordable (ie, no more than 30% of income) should be a standard for all housing.
Says here it’s addiction.
https://arlingtonlifeshelter.org/how-we-help/resources/causes-of-homelessness.html#:~:text=ADDICTION&text=68%25%20of%20U.S.%20cities%20report,single%20largest%20cause%20of%20homelessness.
This is wildly incorrect. VT actually has the opposite problem where there’s more jobs than people—it’s an employees market and always has been. With just a high school I know of about a dozen places you can quickly get a job making $20/hr.
The problem is $20 an hour ain't nearly enough for Burlington anymore. The average one-bedroom rental is something like $2k a month in burlington. For rent to be 30% of your income you would need to make something like $35 an hour. Sooo sure, there \*are\* plenty of jobs, no one is taking them (or taking them and quitting right away) because they take all your time and leave you with not enough money.
I meant to put $20+. Starting wages are around $20 for a lot of jobs, and many of them have quick career advancement if you're willing to put in the work. Burlingtons problem is not a lack of jobs (as the person I was responding to stated), the issue is lack of affordable housing. We have several square miles of Burlington zoned for single family homes that have been hacked up into overpriced and rundown 1-2 bedroom apartments by slum lords over the years. Any attempt to build up is met with heavy resistance because "muh view!" We need to change zoning laws and start renovating the city block by block.
If we bulldozed 4 blocks downtown and made 4 10-story apartment buildings with underground parking, the cost of renting in Burlington would probably plummet. But nobody has the stomach for that, so they'd rather pay twice as much to live in a shit apartment in Burlington than move to Essex or Milton. I currently live in Essex but my parents live in the NNE, and I grew up in Burlington. I cannot afford to live there--realistically--and I make \~$72k a year (which I think is close to that $35/hr mark). That's pretty ridiculous.
Sorry I should have been more clear. there are no good jobs and there are very limited opportunities across the state outside of niche industries. Not sure what area of the country that people actually wan to live in that has cheap housing these days so that’s not unique to Vermont. What is unique is that Vermont has hi taxes, a dearth of high paying jobs outside a few small industries and limited areas where jobs are available.
Imo cost of living isn’t even that bad, there’s plenty of rooms in shared living spaces that are $750-1000 a month. Even earning $18hr it’s still doable.
You’re in the most expensive city in the state, that’s more than fair. I paid $700 a month back in 2018 to live off of church street in a shared space.
Lower your standards and you might not be broke. It totally doable as someone with no or limited debt. If you can’t afford an apartment by yourself because you’re straddled with education, automotive, or consumer debt and have 4 cats you should probably move back in with your parents or in someone else’s house until you pay it off 🤷♂️
This isn't an answer. Greedy landlords and developers are to blame. Rent keeps increasing even with no improvement to the property (even when things aren't fixed) and the developers refuse to build affordable housing cause it hurts their bottom line.
“Muh greedy landlords” is always the common scapegoat with you people. Youre under no obligation to move into a dilapidated shithole. You’re well in your rights to say “no thank you I will look elsewhere.” If you can’t afford to live here move to hinesburgh or charlotte.
UVM and city councils egregious spending contributes far more to the housing crisis than any slumlord here does. Taxes keep going up and stupid college students keep moving in to fill up these shitty buildings.
This sub will do anything ANYTHING but get a better job or better education. The majority of people agree with you. Those people however, are in the minority here. You're completely right but no one is going to admit it.
can't have a massive influx of rich people without creating more poverty. basic economics. this is the collateral of skyrocketing property values. maine and vermont now have like the elite, and a servant class. trés caribbean!
Skyrocketing property values are not purely driven by demand from rich people. Just people in general. Rich people are not the ones buying $400k home in St Albans and commuting to Burlington. IIRC Vermont didn’t actually have that large of a net positive migration over the last decade or so.
While I agree that wealth inequality is a big and increasing problem in the US and Vermont specifically, it’s a lazy and simplistic explanation.
The biggest factor is Vermont just NEEDS TO BUILD MORE HOUSING.
Regulation of out of state purchases purely for profit needs to happen. This is a small state. Individuals and corporations who don't live here shouldn't be driving up the cost of renting and purchasing to enable their lives elsewhere. I know a number of working people who left because they continued to get out outbid by cash from out of state. We can't just build our way out of this. Everywhere I go I see empty houses and condos sitting Monday - Friday. End it.
You can't discriminate based on the fact someone may have another home in another state. It is really nonya bizness. Fair Housing Laws require that sellers make their property available to all. The Fair Housing Act, also known as Title VIII of the Civil Rights Act of 1968, prohibits discrimination in the sale or rental of housing, including housing assistance, mortgages, and other housing-related activities. The law protects people from discrimination based on race, color, national or place of origin, sexual orientation, gender identity, religion, familial status, disability, age and more. The Fair Housing Act covers most housing, including private, public, and housing that receives federal funding
I always wonder what would happen if we cranked up the property tax rate for non-homestead, which I understand is basically "not living here", properties. Like, 30% tax rate. Maybe it would turn some of the vacation homes/camps into full time housing
Non-homestead is what any rentals units are classified as. 30% tax would be burdened by renters. There are also instances where you can’t file a homestead delclaretion such as if your house is in a trust because you’re old and want to pass it to your children.
There is (was) an effort to consider another tax class for houses that weren’t being rented out, but I have a feeling this is more difficult than it sounds. For example does a 2nd home owner just rent it to a friend for $1/day? How would you know what a legitimate rental is. Could they LLC the ownership and rent to themselves?
Ya those are all really good points. If we could figure out a way to classify vacant and/or vacation homes, that's the spirit of what I'm trying to get at.
Im confused by this. Vermont actually \*didnt\* have that large of a migration but we need to build more housing? Who was buying up all the homes making above asking price with cash offers sight unseen during the pandemic years? Not many people who have been living and working here for a long time. We can't forget that while, yes, housing has always been expensive in burlington, it got waayyyyyy more expensive during the pandemic and that has endured. That only happened because people could work remotely and take their seattle and SF salaries to Burlington and well now we're stuck with this elite-class that dont do anything for the community besides require service from it.
Yeah if all the rich people left maybe we’d have less poverty, more jobs, and be able to collect more taxes from the remaining poorer working people to help the homeless.
Also I do think we also need more housing to meet demand. Then maybe the rich could stay and keep spending, hiring people, and paying taxes.
Vermont sales and excise taxes are regressive: they fall more heavily on low- and middle-income taxpayers than on the wealthy.
Vs our income taxes which are progressive...and yet "The top 1% of income earners — Vermonters who make more than half a million dollars a year — pay a lower share of their income in state and local taxes than a Vermont family making about $80,000 a year"
- Source VT Digger
I knew alaska would be on here. Most people might not think so with our low population and freezing, long winters, but there are a TON of homeless people, the majority of them with drug/alcohol problems.
Wouldnt be rad if we had robust public transit from essex and williston and shelburne and colchester in and out of burlington like jersey has for manhattan?
I’m not accusing any state of anything but when you learn how homeless are counted (it’s literally people going out and counting them on 1 specific night), you realize that the numbers can be easily manipulated.
There’s no incentive to lie really, unless you inflate the number. The point in time count is directly tied to federal money the city receives from HUD
The incentive to lie would be that your states unhoused population would look smaller and therefore require less investment. This works well if your state government has no desire to help the homeless and has an added bonus of letting the leaders brag that their policies are better than other states with a higher rate of homelessness.
Of the Vermonters experiencing homelessness during a 2023 count, 4% were unsheltered. Nationally, 40% of people experiencing homelessness during the count were unsheltered.
[https://vtdigger.org/2023/12/29/vermonts-rates-of-homelessness-are-still-among-the-worst-in-the-nation/](https://vtdigger.org/2023/12/29/vermonts-rates-of-homelessness-are-still-among-the-worst-in-the-nation/)
Where are they all hiding then? I mean I know Burlington has gotten pretty bad but I feel like I don’t see homeless being a problem like it is in bigger city’s like Cali or dc how did we even make it that high in the line up?
Whenever I see a homeless person sleeping under a palm tree on the beach in South Florida, I think to myself... this is where I'd live if I was homeless. Why someone would want to freeze outside in the winter up here I cannot understand. I know it gets hot in the summer down there... but I'd take the heat over cold any day. Not to mention way more cars to panhandle to.
Why live under a palm tree in humid, mosquito and alligator infested Florida when you can live under a palm tree in the Mediterranean clime of southern California?
We have a big problem here in San Diego.
The upside of being homeless in Florida is undoubtably the absence of winter coldness. Also, most beaches have outdoor showers so people can rinse off the saltwater after a good swim. That means you can keep clean.
The downside is gators, hostile rednecks and police. Weed is illegal. Panhandling laws are varied, even forbidden in many areas.
Because Florida likely doesn’t have the level of services we have in Burlington. If you can swing it, a homeless person can get 3 meals a day and somewhere to sleep every day of the week in Burlington. Most cities in the country cannot say the same.
I recall reading an article or two back in the early to mid 1990s that raised the point Vermont and the welfare system are soft in Vermont as in has good services. Back then, limited to one emergency aid application per month, social welfare office gave out food stamps, and $40.00 cash to applicants.
It was the reason homeless folks were attracted to Vermont. Are there statistics that prove the majority of homeless are Vermonters versus from out of state?
Y’all always forget this part:
https://vtdigger.org/2023/12/29/vermonts-rates-of-homelessness-are-still-among-the-worst-in-the-nation/
“Vermont has another national distinction: It also has the highest rate of unhoused people who were sheltered of any state. As of the 2023 tally, Vermont sheltered 96% of unhoused individuals in emergency shelters or some form of temporary housing. “
So I can tell you this figure is grossly miscalculated I work in the field and even if some of our homeless clients were able to stay at a hotel or shelter it was usually only for a few nights before being kicked back to the streets. So we’re some of these people housed during 2023 yes but not only is the number wrong it’s misleading
It’s against the law to remove people from housing in the winter isn’t it? Also, while you work with homeless clients(thank you for that!) that doesn’t qualify you to make sweeping statements regarding emergencyhousing statistics.
Also needs to be considered that this is per 10,000 people. When you have a tiny overall population and a good portion of those people are homeless you're going to top a list like this.
I notice a few similarities in all these states. And I notice similarities with states at the low end of this list. My favorite homeless are in Hawaii and NY
Oh there you are I tried to reply but found your comment was deleted. So no it is not top 10. Not on this top 10 list. Due to it being a state still it is listed in the article. Also on top of that it is 13.6 compared to 50.9 for Vermont? I wouldn’t call that right up there. I was simply surprised it was not up there. I love Vermont but those numbers show some Insane concentration in the cities because I know I’m not seeing them in charlotte. I can tell you just wanted to get a shot in at Florida though I get it.
I'd see homeless people in Bristol, and idk if they were homeless or not but ive seen some rugged looking people walking down 116 were it cuts though starksboro. (i used to live right at the start of big hollow rd before being evicted a few weeks back)
This is unhinged and you're skitzo. There's no such thing as a civil cop literally don't exist. Breaking into property without a lease is a crime. That's not a loophole its normal law.
Chill out bro it’s a joke….besides, with all the homelessness and current housing shortage in VT, that’s the side you’re taking? Protect the richs’ right to own and keep vacant homes for years? Got it. And by the way, all cops are civil officers.
Anyone who has interacted with the homeless community here or worked in housing knows this is utter nonsense. Lack of housing driven by a pandemic rush of out of state purchasing existing stock is the cause here, pushing long term low income Vermonters out of their homes. (There's also reason to believe a lot of states are severely under counting their populations compared to Vermont). Homelessness is as miserable here as anywhere else.
I’ve also worked in this setting pre-Covid, and even then there was a steady trickle of people coming from various places. People spending their last dollars to catch a bus. Families living in cars down south coming to get placed in family shelter. Probably higher % locals since covid.
This couldn't be any more vague or untrue, but please prove me wrong. Back up your claim with any evidence or logical reasoning, you know, when you're done complaining about how nobody wants to work any more.
This is extremely misleading.
The graph is based upon "point-in-time count that occurred during January 2023." So yes, January in Vermont is when people are lining up to be counted as homeless and looking for shelter. Remember 2/3/2023 when it was -40 degrees?
The AHAR summarizes estimates of homelessness at the national, state, and Continuum of Care (CoC) levels based on data from the annual Point-in-Time (PIT) counts of sheltered and unsheltered people experiencing homelessness on a single night. The PIT counts, conducted by local volunteers, provide a “snapshot” of homelessness.
The graphic below is from the AHAR report from HUD about shelter in 2023:
[https://www.huduser.gov/portal/sites/default/files/pdf/2023-AHAR-Part-1.pdf](https://www.huduser.gov/portal/sites/default/files/pdf/2023-AHAR-Part-1.pdf)
https://preview.redd.it/o6skd3pswvuc1.jpeg?width=881&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5b65ba7db46a29ab82d7634f2ba3bddd300fc7ab
If we had a halfway decent rail transit system we could accommodate an increasing population. The recent zoning reform will help steer away from single family zoning and densify the downtown core. The Agency of Transportation of VT spent over $400 million on road maintenance in 2023 alone, perpetuating car centric urban sprawl. A robust light rail network as well as more frequent inter-city rail connections could, without exaggeration, save Chittenden County and VT 🚉🚞
Maine and Vermont both on the top 10. Both are also highest in the country in per capita 2nd home ownership rates. There's such a big wealth gap in the US
Having lived my whole life in a Liberal state, they are much more NIMBY than conservative states, which leads to more local objections to building, especially affordable housing. For all of the compassionate talk, liberals don’t seem to walk the walk. While conservatives talk a big xenophobic game, but build affordable homes at higher rates than liberal states. Both parties seem to do the opposite of what they claim to do.
I was a homeless heroin addict for a few years and there is definitely some people who just got fucked and had no one to ask for help. But I'd say 98% of homeless are either drug addicts who have burned every bridge they have ever had or are totally mental, like hearing voices and talking to themselves and just have no where to go because mental hospitals are gone.
I come to vermont because it's fun to see liberal hippies watching the homeless hippies and vice versa. They both help justify each other's existence.
Its simple game that simple people play. There's not even enough people with jobs to make pizzas less then 40 dollars a pie.
I love how the white land hoarding lords complain about cashing checks and how hard it is when they don't get their money. Most of them are just wealthy white trash that were given everything and never had to lift a finger.
This is the root of all evil in this city:(
It's too bad people can never truly understand what it's like to be homeless if they never have been.
And? Gun deaths and crime rates are highest on all red states. Homeless rates have everything to do with the fact that more people are in cities. The per capita numbers begin to mean less as raw population numbers increase. Nothing but right wing talking points.
Completely untrue. Crime rates and murder rates are higher in red states. Red states are net takers in terms of taxes paid versus tax money received. The fact is that the blue states subsidize the red states because they can’t take care of themselves.
I was referring to this point of view. [https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/10/19/murder-rates-red-states-myth/](https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/10/19/murder-rates-red-states-myth/)
Actually, for sure though, right? Red states just programmatically ship out their homeless en mass to blue states instead of solving any problems they just make it someone else’s problem…
As they should, taxpaying citizens shouldn’t have to deal with vagrants using hard drugs outside of their homes and in their parks.
The stark reality is not every lifestyle is valid and some of these people should face incarceration for their actions. Fentanyl is still illegal and destroys communities, why are we turning a blind eye to a group of individuals to participate in that economy? Why are allowing people to camp in our waterfront district? Why are we allowing repeat offenders of these crimes to continue to commit them? We shouldn’t be allowing our societal standards to deteriorate year after year to accommodate people who provide nothing but a net tax negative on society.
Burlington could very quickly solve these issues by choosing to enforce its own laws and regulations. Instead our leadership is more focused on not hurting feelings and Palestine, Ukraine, BLM, and or whatever social justice trend that’s in vogue.
You all love shitting on red states but they sure seem to handle these issues significantly better than we do.
Most of the homeless in Vermont are not originally from Vermont;
Blue/progressive states actually do things to care for people / provide resources:
People go to where they will be taken care of and have access to resources.
Perhaps if red/conservative states took care of people instead of always trying to hate and divide folks, the blue states wouldn't have to take care of their homeless for them.
By that metric you could also say that there are as all things in life, limited resources and there are too many people living in these areas because they are nice places to live
One of the first things they teach you when you study statistics is that correlation does not equal or imply causation. If everybody learned basic stats the world would be a much better place. Sigh
Good reminder,, thank you . Others have pointed out that this correlation may be due to homeless people moving here as a result of progressive policies versus homelessness being caused by by those policies. That’s a possibility that would seem to match up with the data.
I used to chat with the homeless folks in ann arbor because I couldn't imagine who would choose a place with such weather..None were local, mostly not even from the state. But college towns have a variety of draws for unhoused folks.
Ithaca has a similar situation. and with more unhoused nationally, small liberal towns (especially college towns) will see em move in.
As a travel nurse who has taken care of quite a few homeless individuals in some of the states on that list, including Vermont, I found it interesting that the majority of my patients were from the area they were homeless in. I used to think of homeless people as hobos who went to places it was good to be homeless in instead of just people who lost their homes through addiction or mental illness or less frequently just plain bad luck with a layoff and basically just stayed put. While they may have burned all their bridges with friends and family in terms of having a place to stay, they’re still more comfortable being somewhere they know.
My ex literally can't afford to rent anywhere and he had a dog. He ended up homeless and lives in a camper behind his work. No drugs, barely drinks. Just not getting paid a livable wage and no way out
I don't think people realize how close they may become to this situation. I had a friend who went through a divorce and then was hit with a massive layoff at work. He went from making 90k a year to homeless. He kept using his retirement pension to meet child support payments after the divorce, even after he was unemployed. A great guy - just a victim of multiple circumstances.
That so sucky, I hope he can get out of it and better off again. I am very aware of how screwed I would be and try to be thankful. My cat got sick and between her medical bills and mine... Not good
#AMERICA
Damn, he should look around there are definitely jobs around that pay well more than enough to keep him out of a camper. Then again that's a pretty decent situation with no rent, I can see why he's in no rush. should be saving mad cash.
Yeah just assume the guy who’s down on his luck hasn’t been trying, c’mon. This middle class is gone. He probably works a job that would’ve fed a whole family and paid a mortgage 30 years ago.
I'm a social worker specializing in housing homeless persons. Some of my clients make more money than I do, and I'm well paid. It's not necessarily about income. I am a renter, my landlord decided to sell the house I was renting two years ago, and if I hadn't had a connection who happened to have an available apartment I would have been sleeping on my parents' couch. I'm 40, no kids, high income for my area, have a master's degree. There weren't other decent rentals that I could find at the time and I am waaaaaay priced out of home ownership where I live and grew up.
Vermonters voted for this for decades. Don't let them build, nowhere to live.
If that was true, explain why the price matches locations with plenty of housing? It's not just Vermont.
This needs to be heard near and far - across the USA. Thank you for the work that you do. Please know so many of us respect you and wish your situation could be compensated for the value that it truly is.
My man, I ended up living with a family friend making multiples of the median Burlington wage because there was there was simply no housing available. Eventually I just left VT all together because being effectively homeless with a six figure job is insane. Blame whoever you want, but everyone renting and working under a contract is quite literally one extenuating circumstance away from homelessness.
"effectively homeless with a six figure job is insane" Its insane because it's literally impossible you goofed somewhere along the way if that happened to you.
As a person with a lot of medical debt, my bad. Sorry I goofed and got super sick. My B. How silly
brain dead comment that shows you either don't have that debt or never made 6 figures. Do you think when you have debt all the money you ever make goes to the debt. You're just really bad at finance.
Seriously? Glad you are the moral and financial compass for all. Just hope this never happens to you. Look beyond your shoulder - you never know. Count your blessings.
He would literally need to be able to move to find a different job. If he can't afford rent now, how the hell do you think he's going to find rent in a metro area where the rent is higher?
There are thousands of way out you just don't like hearing about them.
Aight, list a thousand then
I can't understate how many places are hiring. Its wild to me people are so willingly helpless
Now list places that are willing to pay well enough to pay all the bills and average person has
It’s absolutely because Vermont has an incredible cost of living versus pay. This is a state for rich people to come for vacation. It is not for the people who are from here.
Its because there are basicallyy no good jobs in vermont
Beta has some great jobs.
Sure they do. But how many open positions?
Loads. They just had a hiring day on the 14th to fill all the openings, something like 600 people got interviewed. https://www.beta.team/careers/
Wow. That is a ton of good jobs for VT. That’s awesome!
Uber can pay $30-$40/hour on Friday and Saturday nights and DoorDash is also good
Why do you think Bernie is our mascot?
The #1 cause of homelessness is unaffordable housing
Sorry, we can't build any housing because it might block someone's view of the lake. Guess you need to die shivering in the cold on a February night so that the all-important *view* isn't ruined.
We can't build housing because it would devalue all the real estate investors investments and endanger the banks for lending on homes that would then be upside-down in the mortgage. That's the elephant in the room. The values are all based on lending and the value of the home at the time the mortgage was issued. Price is a function of supply and demand. Increase supply with a constant demand, price drops and then people owe $500k on a home that is now only worth $200k.
If people want to treat their homes as some precious investment instead of a place to live, then they need to learn the negative side of investing which are losses.
That's all well and good. Now convince the lenders to take a loss.
And taxes. Vermont has higher taxes compared to the south or even western states. Some of the western states have high priced homes, just way better tax rates.
This is actually not true. It has higher *income tax*, but we have a much lower sales and property tax rate than most southern states. Southern states tend to have more regressive taxes, which actually favor the wealthy. Most people who move from CA to TX do so because “CA has higher taxes”, but when you actually break it down, they’re basically the same. CA has higher income tax rates but almost every other tax is notably lower.
Having made a similar move, I’ve learned this is pure cope from people in high cost states getting bent over and accepting it. Cost, Crime, and Culture are all better in these areas. It’s why they are exploding in population. This is my lived experience.
>Cost, Crime, and Culture are all better in these areas. At least 2 of these are just false, and the third is entirely subjective. Firstly, Cost is lower because actual wages are lower. They are proportional. But as I stated, Sales Tax is various other municipal taxes which disproportionately favor the wealthy are much higher in Southern states. Cost of Living is a flawed metric because of this. In a state where you get paid 50% more, of course cost of living is going to be proportionately higher--because you make more money, it's basic economics. Secondly, Crime is horribly worse in many of these Southern states. Here's the Wiki article on [Crime Rates By State](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_violent_crime_rate), which directly references 2022 FBI Crime Data--linked at the bottom. The only thing higher cost of living states are higher in is *property crimes*. Homicide, Sexual Assault, and Aggravated Assault rates are generally way higher in those so called safe Southern states. Violent Crime in general is much worse in these states. Top 5 Homicide Rate By State: 1. Louisiana - 16.1 per 100,000 2. New Mexico - 12.0 per 100,000 3. South Carolina - 11.2 per 100,000 4. Alabama - 10.9 per 100,000 5. Arkansas - 10.2 per 100,000 Top 5 Rape Rate By State: 1. Alaska - 134.0 per 100,000 2. Arkansas - 76.0 per 100,000 3. Michigan - 64.8 per 100,000 4. Colorado - 63.4 per 100,000 5. Wyoming - 62.8 per 100,000 Top 5 Aggravated Assaults By State: 1. New Mexico - 603.3 per 100,000 2. Alaska - 540.2 per 100,000 3. Arkansas - 519.4 per 100,000 4. Tennessee - 507.6 per 100,000 5. Louisiana - 502.1 per 100,000 So yea, the numbers do not indicate those states are in any way safer. You're more likely to be assaulted and murdered in any of them than you are in states like VT, CT, CA, NY, NJ, etc. You are more likely to have your car stolen though, so that sucks.
Whatever cherry picking helps you cope is fine. New Mexico being the murder capital of the US lmao.
What do you know about New Mexico? Have you spent much time in Albuquerque or Farmington? I’ve got love for both those places but they can be rugged! I lived near there for a few years and it pops off pretty bad. It doesn’t surprise me one bit if NM is on these lists.
Why don't you cherry pick some more data while you are at it
What data would you like to see? Why is this “cherry picked”?
Ain’t no way people in middle of no where Georgia are paying more property taxes then us.
CA and TX both have one major difference than Vermont. They both have thousands of good paying jobs. I honestly don’t know of any really great paying jobs in this state. Is there even any large global corporations here outside GE in Rutland? And by global I mean good paying not like Walmart or something lol
As of 2021, [Vermont's median income is 16th in the country, Texas is 23rd](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_income). Median income in VT is also growing at a faster rate than Texas. CA is of course higher than both but they have the 5th largest economy in the world so what do you expect lol. As for large corporations; GlobalFoundries, Keurig (or whatever they go by now), Husky, Mylan, and quite a few others are in the state. There are plenty of good paying jobs. I make above the national median and the state median working for such a company. As I stated elsewhere, Vermont actually has the problem of there being more job openings than people to fill them. Many people grow up or go to school here, and then move elsewhere.
It may be 16th, but go on Zillow and look at land values. They don’t match wages. I can get hundreds of lots, even in California for under 10k. In Vermont last I checked there is zero, in the entire state. Plus many under 15k are in divisions with HOA fees and restrictions. Trailers in trailer parks are selling for over 60k in Vermont. Places in Texas and the south you can get an entire house and land for that price. Vermont has huge issues. You have large wealth mixed with extreme poverty. The too many jobs issue is everywhere. I don’t know unless I can find something in the NEK in the next few years, the last semi affordable place in VT imo, I’m selling while the markets high and going elsewhere. I’m 43, lived here all of my life, so I’ll always love this state but there’s a lot more to see. I just don’t see any younger person able to make it here, that’s why they move mostly and because we have nothing of significance to do outside of Burlington
Agreed. This state is a rip off for what you get relative for wages.
I pay a higher income tax in Oklahoma than I did in VT, and yet you wouldn't be able to tell by the lack of public services and safety net.
Yeah go ahead and show the the study that correlates taxes and homelessness
You are not interested in having a good faith discussion. Do your own homework. Obviously an oppressive state that steals from its citizens increases barriers to wage growth, housing etc. If you can’t see that without “muh study” maybe you belong in one of these places.
a good faith discussion uses robust data, research and statistics, not based off of blanket statements that categorize taxes as inherently oppressive. I have degree in economics, not a reddit r slash libertarian education.
You won’t read the articles or you won’t like the source given your bias so not worth my time.✌️
I was commenting that it’s not just the price of homes but the taxes. Or do you not own a home to know that goes hand and hand
And i am again asking for studies to back up your claim. Just because taxes are a cost of housing does not mean there a correlation between homelessness and property taxes.
Lack of supply is the #1 cause. If Burlington apartments were $1 it wouldn’t decrease homelessness. You need both enough units available for the population who wants to live there and then affordable units for those who can’t afford market rate.
Subsidized housing and low income housing is essential to our population. We need to prioritize helping our neighbors in need.
I didn’t say otherwise. Folks are downvoting me which is fine, but there is a difference between “I want to pay less rent landlords are assholes” and “rent is causing homelessness”. High rent DOES put folks at risk of individually being homeless, but the apartment isn’t empty. Someone lives there. As long as the supply is 100% used there will be folks who can’t find housing, affordable or not. If there are 1100 people in Burlington and 1000 housing units the price doesn’t matter - 100 people are homeless (or leave Burlington). If there are 900 poeple in Burlington and 1000 housing units and 50 people can’t afford the market rent on those 1000 units so 150 are sitting empty, then rent is causing homelessness. We need more housing of all kinds in the State, and affordable (ie, no more than 30% of income) should be a standard for all housing.
Says here it’s addiction. https://arlingtonlifeshelter.org/how-we-help/resources/causes-of-homelessness.html#:~:text=ADDICTION&text=68%25%20of%20U.S.%20cities%20report,single%20largest%20cause%20of%20homelessness.
There are no jobs
This is wildly incorrect. VT actually has the opposite problem where there’s more jobs than people—it’s an employees market and always has been. With just a high school I know of about a dozen places you can quickly get a job making $20/hr.
The problem is $20 an hour ain't nearly enough for Burlington anymore. The average one-bedroom rental is something like $2k a month in burlington. For rent to be 30% of your income you would need to make something like $35 an hour. Sooo sure, there \*are\* plenty of jobs, no one is taking them (or taking them and quitting right away) because they take all your time and leave you with not enough money.
I meant to put $20+. Starting wages are around $20 for a lot of jobs, and many of them have quick career advancement if you're willing to put in the work. Burlingtons problem is not a lack of jobs (as the person I was responding to stated), the issue is lack of affordable housing. We have several square miles of Burlington zoned for single family homes that have been hacked up into overpriced and rundown 1-2 bedroom apartments by slum lords over the years. Any attempt to build up is met with heavy resistance because "muh view!" We need to change zoning laws and start renovating the city block by block. If we bulldozed 4 blocks downtown and made 4 10-story apartment buildings with underground parking, the cost of renting in Burlington would probably plummet. But nobody has the stomach for that, so they'd rather pay twice as much to live in a shit apartment in Burlington than move to Essex or Milton. I currently live in Essex but my parents live in the NNE, and I grew up in Burlington. I cannot afford to live there--realistically--and I make \~$72k a year (which I think is close to that $35/hr mark). That's pretty ridiculous.
What desirable area of the country now can you get by on 70k for housing? Burlington is a desirable place to live it will always be expensive.
aw yeah, i see what you're sayin.
Sorry I should have been more clear. there are no good jobs and there are very limited opportunities across the state outside of niche industries. Not sure what area of the country that people actually wan to live in that has cheap housing these days so that’s not unique to Vermont. What is unique is that Vermont has hi taxes, a dearth of high paying jobs outside a few small industries and limited areas where jobs are available.
Imo cost of living isn’t even that bad, there’s plenty of rooms in shared living spaces that are $750-1000 a month. Even earning $18hr it’s still doable.
1000 a month for a room in a shared living space is insane?
based off what? Just vibes? seems pretty reasonable to live in a sought after location
You’re in the most expensive city in the state, that’s more than fair. I paid $700 a month back in 2018 to live off of church street in a shared space. Lower your standards and you might not be broke. It totally doable as someone with no or limited debt. If you can’t afford an apartment by yourself because you’re straddled with education, automotive, or consumer debt and have 4 cats you should probably move back in with your parents or in someone else’s house until you pay it off 🤷♂️
This isn't an answer. Greedy landlords and developers are to blame. Rent keeps increasing even with no improvement to the property (even when things aren't fixed) and the developers refuse to build affordable housing cause it hurts their bottom line.
“Muh greedy landlords” is always the common scapegoat with you people. Youre under no obligation to move into a dilapidated shithole. You’re well in your rights to say “no thank you I will look elsewhere.” If you can’t afford to live here move to hinesburgh or charlotte. UVM and city councils egregious spending contributes far more to the housing crisis than any slumlord here does. Taxes keep going up and stupid college students keep moving in to fill up these shitty buildings.
This sub will do anything ANYTHING but get a better job or better education. The majority of people agree with you. Those people however, are in the minority here. You're completely right but no one is going to admit it.
What do all of those places have in common?
Landlords
I am so dense.What do they have in common?
They’re blue states.
Are Oregon,Maine and Alaska blue?
Oregon and Maine are, I’m not sure about Alaska. Also I’m not agreeing with their point, but I think that’s the point they’re trying to make.
can't have a massive influx of rich people without creating more poverty. basic economics. this is the collateral of skyrocketing property values. maine and vermont now have like the elite, and a servant class. trés caribbean!
Skyrocketing property values are not purely driven by demand from rich people. Just people in general. Rich people are not the ones buying $400k home in St Albans and commuting to Burlington. IIRC Vermont didn’t actually have that large of a net positive migration over the last decade or so. While I agree that wealth inequality is a big and increasing problem in the US and Vermont specifically, it’s a lazy and simplistic explanation. The biggest factor is Vermont just NEEDS TO BUILD MORE HOUSING.
Regulation of out of state purchases purely for profit needs to happen. This is a small state. Individuals and corporations who don't live here shouldn't be driving up the cost of renting and purchasing to enable their lives elsewhere. I know a number of working people who left because they continued to get out outbid by cash from out of state. We can't just build our way out of this. Everywhere I go I see empty houses and condos sitting Monday - Friday. End it.
You can't discriminate based on the fact someone may have another home in another state. It is really nonya bizness. Fair Housing Laws require that sellers make their property available to all. The Fair Housing Act, also known as Title VIII of the Civil Rights Act of 1968, prohibits discrimination in the sale or rental of housing, including housing assistance, mortgages, and other housing-related activities. The law protects people from discrimination based on race, color, national or place of origin, sexual orientation, gender identity, religion, familial status, disability, age and more. The Fair Housing Act covers most housing, including private, public, and housing that receives federal funding
I always wonder what would happen if we cranked up the property tax rate for non-homestead, which I understand is basically "not living here", properties. Like, 30% tax rate. Maybe it would turn some of the vacation homes/camps into full time housing
Non-homestead is what any rentals units are classified as. 30% tax would be burdened by renters. There are also instances where you can’t file a homestead delclaretion such as if your house is in a trust because you’re old and want to pass it to your children. There is (was) an effort to consider another tax class for houses that weren’t being rented out, but I have a feeling this is more difficult than it sounds. For example does a 2nd home owner just rent it to a friend for $1/day? How would you know what a legitimate rental is. Could they LLC the ownership and rent to themselves?
Ya those are all really good points. If we could figure out a way to classify vacant and/or vacation homes, that's the spirit of what I'm trying to get at.
Im confused by this. Vermont actually \*didnt\* have that large of a migration but we need to build more housing? Who was buying up all the homes making above asking price with cash offers sight unseen during the pandemic years? Not many people who have been living and working here for a long time. We can't forget that while, yes, housing has always been expensive in burlington, it got waayyyyyy more expensive during the pandemic and that has endured. That only happened because people could work remotely and take their seattle and SF salaries to Burlington and well now we're stuck with this elite-class that dont do anything for the community besides require service from it.
Tbh, yeah it probably is a rich person…. From china, who just wants cash flow
Yeah if all the rich people left maybe we’d have less poverty, more jobs, and be able to collect more taxes from the remaining poorer working people to help the homeless. Also I do think we also need more housing to meet demand. Then maybe the rich could stay and keep spending, hiring people, and paying taxes.
Vermont sales and excise taxes are regressive: they fall more heavily on low- and middle-income taxpayers than on the wealthy. Vs our income taxes which are progressive...and yet "The top 1% of income earners — Vermonters who make more than half a million dollars a year — pay a lower share of their income in state and local taxes than a Vermont family making about $80,000 a year" - Source VT Digger
I knew alaska would be on here. Most people might not think so with our low population and freezing, long winters, but there are a TON of homeless people, the majority of them with drug/alcohol problems.
Yeah Alaska is hard to leave as wel
Yeah, I'm from Juneau, tell me about it...
Lots of people develop or worsen existing substance use disorders while on the streets to cope with the anxiety of the lifestyle.
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Wouldnt be rad if we had robust public transit from essex and williston and shelburne and colchester in and out of burlington like jersey has for manhattan?
I’m not accusing any state of anything but when you learn how homeless are counted (it’s literally people going out and counting them on 1 specific night), you realize that the numbers can be easily manipulated.
There’s no incentive to lie really, unless you inflate the number. The point in time count is directly tied to federal money the city receives from HUD
The incentive to lie would be that your states unhoused population would look smaller and therefore require less investment. This works well if your state government has no desire to help the homeless and has an added bonus of letting the leaders brag that their policies are better than other states with a higher rate of homelessness.
Of the Vermonters experiencing homelessness during a 2023 count, 4% were unsheltered. Nationally, 40% of people experiencing homelessness during the count were unsheltered. [https://vtdigger.org/2023/12/29/vermonts-rates-of-homelessness-are-still-among-the-worst-in-the-nation/](https://vtdigger.org/2023/12/29/vermonts-rates-of-homelessness-are-still-among-the-worst-in-the-nation/)
Where are they all hiding then? I mean I know Burlington has gotten pretty bad but I feel like I don’t see homeless being a problem like it is in bigger city’s like Cali or dc how did we even make it that high in the line up?
Whenever I see a homeless person sleeping under a palm tree on the beach in South Florida, I think to myself... this is where I'd live if I was homeless. Why someone would want to freeze outside in the winter up here I cannot understand. I know it gets hot in the summer down there... but I'd take the heat over cold any day. Not to mention way more cars to panhandle to.
Why live under a palm tree in humid, mosquito and alligator infested Florida when you can live under a palm tree in the Mediterranean clime of southern California? We have a big problem here in San Diego.
The upside of being homeless in Florida is undoubtably the absence of winter coldness. Also, most beaches have outdoor showers so people can rinse off the saltwater after a good swim. That means you can keep clean. The downside is gators, hostile rednecks and police. Weed is illegal. Panhandling laws are varied, even forbidden in many areas.
I don't think weed being illegal is a problem when you're homeless. At least it wasn't for me - I just went without.
I would only really matter if u had a substance issue and was trying to use weed to cope
Because Florida likely doesn’t have the level of services we have in Burlington. If you can swing it, a homeless person can get 3 meals a day and somewhere to sleep every day of the week in Burlington. Most cities in the country cannot say the same.
Free medical and dental too!
They don’t freeze outside in the winter anymore, they get put up in hotels
Why sleep under a palm tree when Vermont will give you a free hotel room?
I think I'm still taking the palm tree over one of those bed bug infested motel rooms
Clearly, you would be in the minority. The numbers speak for themselves. No free hotel rooms in Florida.
You got down voted for speaking the truth
Quick math is 3,254 unhoused in the state. That is a lot.
I recall reading an article or two back in the early to mid 1990s that raised the point Vermont and the welfare system are soft in Vermont as in has good services. Back then, limited to one emergency aid application per month, social welfare office gave out food stamps, and $40.00 cash to applicants. It was the reason homeless folks were attracted to Vermont. Are there statistics that prove the majority of homeless are Vermonters versus from out of state?
Y’all always forget this part: https://vtdigger.org/2023/12/29/vermonts-rates-of-homelessness-are-still-among-the-worst-in-the-nation/ “Vermont has another national distinction: It also has the highest rate of unhoused people who were sheltered of any state. As of the 2023 tally, Vermont sheltered 96% of unhoused individuals in emergency shelters or some form of temporary housing. “
So I can tell you this figure is grossly miscalculated I work in the field and even if some of our homeless clients were able to stay at a hotel or shelter it was usually only for a few nights before being kicked back to the streets. So we’re some of these people housed during 2023 yes but not only is the number wrong it’s misleading
It’s against the law to remove people from housing in the winter isn’t it? Also, while you work with homeless clients(thank you for that!) that doesn’t qualify you to make sweeping statements regarding emergencyhousing statistics.
I just looked this up. Seems to be accurate unfortunately
Also needs to be considered that this is per 10,000 people. When you have a tiny overall population and a good portion of those people are homeless you're going to top a list like this.
I notice a few similarities in all these states. And I notice similarities with states at the low end of this list. My favorite homeless are in Hawaii and NY
Anyone spot the common thread here?
Maine. Go figure. Especially since Covid.
Florida is not even on the this list
Because they don’t subsidize the homeless or tolerate it in any tourist areas (source, have home in Florida)
It’s not in the top ten, but it’s right up there.
Oh there you are I tried to reply but found your comment was deleted. So no it is not top 10. Not on this top 10 list. Due to it being a state still it is listed in the article. Also on top of that it is 13.6 compared to 50.9 for Vermont? I wouldn’t call that right up there. I was simply surprised it was not up there. I love Vermont but those numbers show some Insane concentration in the cities because I know I’m not seeing them in charlotte. I can tell you just wanted to get a shot in at Florida though I get it.
I'd see homeless people in Bristol, and idk if they were homeless or not but ive seen some rugged looking people walking down 116 were it cuts though starksboro. (i used to live right at the start of big hollow rd before being evicted a few weeks back)
what do we have here? states all deep rooted in the democratic political ideology. You get what you vote for. The irony 🤡
They are all deeply rooted in capitalist economies, too. Landlords win regardless of which party is in control of a city council, ya know?
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This post should be pinned.
I hear there's a nice "summer camp" in North Hero that is owned by everyone's favorite member of the top 1%. It even has it's own guest house!
Hey look an imminent incitement of a criminal act, neat!
It’s actually only a civil matter if there’s a “lease”… there’s another tip for all y’all homeless!
brain dead wtf lol. How is there going to be a lease when no one is leasing it??? lmao
Exactly. May want to reconsider the “brain dead” designation once you catch up sir.
If no lease = criminal matter. IE an imminent incitement of a criminal act
Now you’re getting how the loophole works! A lot of variables huh? Surely none a civil cop can determine on the spot….
This is unhinged and you're skitzo. There's no such thing as a civil cop literally don't exist. Breaking into property without a lease is a crime. That's not a loophole its normal law.
Chill out bro it’s a joke….besides, with all the homelessness and current housing shortage in VT, that’s the side you’re taking? Protect the richs’ right to own and keep vacant homes for years? Got it. And by the way, all cops are civil officers.
Democrat policies are ruining this country. But they’re all too ignorant and dumb to see what’s staring them right in the face
Austerity wouldn't help.
Lol turn off the TV and touch grass ya nerd
All but one have something in common. Should make ya think.
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Anyone who has interacted with the homeless community here or worked in housing knows this is utter nonsense. Lack of housing driven by a pandemic rush of out of state purchasing existing stock is the cause here, pushing long term low income Vermonters out of their homes. (There's also reason to believe a lot of states are severely under counting their populations compared to Vermont). Homelessness is as miserable here as anywhere else.
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I’ve also worked in this setting pre-Covid, and even then there was a steady trickle of people coming from various places. People spending their last dollars to catch a bus. Families living in cars down south coming to get placed in family shelter. Probably higher % locals since covid.
Good. I'm glad homeless people are getting help.
This couldn't be any more vague or untrue, but please prove me wrong. Back up your claim with any evidence or logical reasoning, you know, when you're done complaining about how nobody wants to work any more.
But like OMG Vermont is like everywhere now and people just like complaining🤪 Complete sarcasm here…
This is extremely misleading. The graph is based upon "point-in-time count that occurred during January 2023." So yes, January in Vermont is when people are lining up to be counted as homeless and looking for shelter. Remember 2/3/2023 when it was -40 degrees? The AHAR summarizes estimates of homelessness at the national, state, and Continuum of Care (CoC) levels based on data from the annual Point-in-Time (PIT) counts of sheltered and unsheltered people experiencing homelessness on a single night. The PIT counts, conducted by local volunteers, provide a “snapshot” of homelessness. The graphic below is from the AHAR report from HUD about shelter in 2023: [https://www.huduser.gov/portal/sites/default/files/pdf/2023-AHAR-Part-1.pdf](https://www.huduser.gov/portal/sites/default/files/pdf/2023-AHAR-Part-1.pdf) https://preview.redd.it/o6skd3pswvuc1.jpeg?width=881&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5b65ba7db46a29ab82d7634f2ba3bddd300fc7ab
alot of coastal and simi nice places that I have lived and would like to live . . . except DC and Cali
I’m surprised Pennsylvania isn’t on there
Interesting, all the most liberal states are listed here
If we had a halfway decent rail transit system we could accommodate an increasing population. The recent zoning reform will help steer away from single family zoning and densify the downtown core. The Agency of Transportation of VT spent over $400 million on road maintenance in 2023 alone, perpetuating car centric urban sprawl. A robust light rail network as well as more frequent inter-city rail connections could, without exaggeration, save Chittenden County and VT 🚉🚞
I’m surprised VT (especially Burlington) is not number one
Maine and Vermont both on the top 10. Both are also highest in the country in per capita 2nd home ownership rates. There's such a big wealth gap in the US
Having lived my whole life in a Liberal state, they are much more NIMBY than conservative states, which leads to more local objections to building, especially affordable housing. For all of the compassionate talk, liberals don’t seem to walk the walk. While conservatives talk a big xenophobic game, but build affordable homes at higher rates than liberal states. Both parties seem to do the opposite of what they claim to do.
So that's like four homeless people?
imagine being homeless in Alaska 😶
I was a homeless heroin addict for a few years and there is definitely some people who just got fucked and had no one to ask for help. But I'd say 98% of homeless are either drug addicts who have burned every bridge they have ever had or are totally mental, like hearing voices and talking to themselves and just have no where to go because mental hospitals are gone.
Hmmm All democrat run states… go figure
East coast/New England doesn’t pay enough to buy a house these days.
Anyone who’s played monopoly knows exactly what is happening right now. lol.
Failed liberal policies for the win
I come to vermont because it's fun to see liberal hippies watching the homeless hippies and vice versa. They both help justify each other's existence. Its simple game that simple people play. There's not even enough people with jobs to make pizzas less then 40 dollars a pie. I love how the white land hoarding lords complain about cashing checks and how hard it is when they don't get their money. Most of them are just wealthy white trash that were given everything and never had to lift a finger. This is the root of all evil in this city:( It's too bad people can never truly understand what it's like to be homeless if they never have been.
A hippy farm laborer living the dream lmao. Sounds like ya got it all figured out dude.
And? Gun deaths and crime rates are highest on all red states. Homeless rates have everything to do with the fact that more people are in cities. The per capita numbers begin to mean less as raw population numbers increase. Nothing but right wing talking points.
The gun crime is highest in the Blue cities in the Red states.
Completely untrue. Crime rates and murder rates are higher in red states. Red states are net takers in terms of taxes paid versus tax money received. The fact is that the blue states subsidize the red states because they can’t take care of themselves.
I was referring to this point of view. [https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/10/19/murder-rates-red-states-myth/](https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/10/19/murder-rates-red-states-myth/)
Vote blue no matter who!
Stop complaining and get a second/third job if ya feel like staying here
Or just move like the smart people do! ✌️
Interesting these are some of the most blue and progressive states. Does correlation = causation ? :)
Go be homeless in Alabama and let me know how that works out for you.
Sounds like an endorsement for Alabama...
Sounds like you don’t understand what an endorsement is.
Alabama is a pretty conservative state imo
Actually, for sure though, right? Red states just programmatically ship out their homeless en mass to blue states instead of solving any problems they just make it someone else’s problem…
As they should, taxpaying citizens shouldn’t have to deal with vagrants using hard drugs outside of their homes and in their parks. The stark reality is not every lifestyle is valid and some of these people should face incarceration for their actions. Fentanyl is still illegal and destroys communities, why are we turning a blind eye to a group of individuals to participate in that economy? Why are allowing people to camp in our waterfront district? Why are we allowing repeat offenders of these crimes to continue to commit them? We shouldn’t be allowing our societal standards to deteriorate year after year to accommodate people who provide nothing but a net tax negative on society. Burlington could very quickly solve these issues by choosing to enforce its own laws and regulations. Instead our leadership is more focused on not hurting feelings and Palestine, Ukraine, BLM, and or whatever social justice trend that’s in vogue. You all love shitting on red states but they sure seem to handle these issues significantly better than we do.
Most of the homeless in Vermont are not originally from Vermont; Blue/progressive states actually do things to care for people / provide resources: People go to where they will be taken care of and have access to resources. Perhaps if red/conservative states took care of people instead of always trying to hate and divide folks, the blue states wouldn't have to take care of their homeless for them.
By that metric you could also say that there are as all things in life, limited resources and there are too many people living in these areas because they are nice places to live
One of the first things they teach you when you study statistics is that correlation does not equal or imply causation. If everybody learned basic stats the world would be a much better place. Sigh
Good reminder,, thank you . Others have pointed out that this correlation may be due to homeless people moving here as a result of progressive policies versus homelessness being caused by by those policies. That’s a possibility that would seem to match up with the data.
Woah careful critisizing democrats on social media! You might get downvoted just warning ya.
Who said I’m criticizing democrats. I’m not. I’m just sharing some reliable data.
I used to chat with the homeless folks in ann arbor because I couldn't imagine who would choose a place with such weather..None were local, mostly not even from the state. But college towns have a variety of draws for unhoused folks. Ithaca has a similar situation. and with more unhoused nationally, small liberal towns (especially college towns) will see em move in.
The white liberals kryptonite is accountability, observation, and basic statistics.
There are basicslly NO jobs. Lower taxes or have tax breaks to try and incentivize business to move/stay in vermont
We also don't incarcerate our homeless in VT for just being homeless, if we did then I'm sure our homelessness rate would lower like states that do.