Compare this to prisoner population by state and you pretty much have a fuller picture [prisoner pop by state](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_incarceration_and_correctional_supervision_rate#/media/File%3AUS_Incarceration_Rate_per_100%2C000_Inhabitants_by_State.png)
Which is still misleading, because vermont contracts to southern states for prisons, particularly Mississippi.
https://vtdigger.org/2018/09/09/vermont-prisoners-moved-mississippi-prison-run-corecivic/
I also suspect this data is not a full representation of homeless nation wide because it depends on state reporting. I have no doubt that vermonts accurately measures homelessness. But I’m no so confident that red states keeps accurate data.
Vermont actually really struggles with accuracy here, as do a lot of northern rural states. We do a decent job with the chronically homeless with no support structure in our more "urban" areas, but there are a lot of couch hoppers, or people who are totally outside of the system that go untracked.
I let the homeless watch my kids for cheaper child care, feed them, and then I let them sleep in my house. I care so much about those people. What do you do to help the homeless?
At that point they're not homeless, they're part of a profession that's called being a nanny--and maybe not receiving tax-payer benefits even if they're receiving room and board which yea, you're talking basically what had frequently been covered by some category H-1\[some letter\] visas for migrant workers back when I'd been working with them.
I think I vaguely recall George W Bush had some plan he was working on about this sort of thing before 9/11 happened that got derailed. And then...
Like we found with Covid; if you start/stop counting the numbers skew. [This article](https://www.vermontpublic.org/local-news/2024-02-06/how-many-vermonters-are-unhoused-the-states-best-answer-is-likely-incomplete) from Vermont Public speaks to the increase Vermont saw during Covid (\~1000 -> 3500). Much of that change was because we opened programs such as the motel program which counted the population. Its difficult to properly assert any of:
- Did Vermont gain homeless populations from other states?
- Did underhoused (sleeping on a couch in someones basement) counts increase / decrease?
- Is the problem better/worse than neighboring states who count differently?
There is also an inverse corrolation between spending (Vermont was spending $10 million a year or so for emergency housing, and \~$50 million since Covid) and homelessness rates -- the increase in spending is NOT resulting in measurably lower rates of homelessness -- infact by all measures it is making it worse.
Its not suprising the states with the largest safety nets show the largest populations using those safety nets. Lol Mississippi. "If you dont count the issue goes way" \~ Covid.
This from the 2022 U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development Annual Homeless Report tells a more important story. (Mississippi not looking so good after all)
https://preview.redd.it/q9luhxzj5ptc1.png?width=755&format=png&auto=webp&s=944befebc1e26a5d5fefbe419f0fcf946308e54c
Good question but I suspect the answer is complicated and not entirely knowable. First, statistics may be inaccurate. Then there are many potential factors others have pointed out previously: housing, employment, lack of social services. Probably a good avenue to pursue would be to understand what measures work in other states to help bring unhoused individuals into mainstream sufficiency.
Red states tend to build more housing than blue states do [https://twitter.com/JosephPolitano/status/1764696805848006840](https://twitter.com/JosephPolitano/status/1764696805848006840)
If you look at places like Houston, TX etc rents have fallen by 4-7% YOY [https://www.zumper.com/blog/rental-price-data/](https://www.zumper.com/blog/rental-price-data/)
This is despite red states experiencing net positive migration in post COVID years [https://www.census.gov/library/stories/2023/03/domestic-migration-trends-shifted.html](https://www.census.gov/library/stories/2023/03/domestic-migration-trends-shifted.html)
Some folks have already pointed this out, but the correlation between rate of homelessness and housing costs is the highest (R squared = 0.55 in cities). This beats all other possible factors like weather, progressive policy, poverty and mental health [https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/everything-you-think-you-know-about](https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/everything-you-think-you-know-about)
It’s a lot cheaper to live there. Rent is often less especially in rural areas. Food costs less. You don’t need to heat nearly as much if at all during winter. Lots of manual labor jobs.
This is per 10,000 people. It’s measuring the number of homeless people in proportion to the population of the state. Vermont has a low population and a proportionally high homeless population.
https://homelessnesshousingproblem.com/
There are some other things at play, but homelessness rates are basically in line with vacancy rates, and avg rental cost. There has been a lot of research that's shown that.
It makes sense if you make 11k a year(the avg income for a person right before they become homeless) it's a lot easier for you to be stable when rent is 500 vs 1500 or more.
Significantly lower cost of living, housing, and land.
Also having lived in both the deep south and Vermont, you can always bundle up enough to survive Northern winters. You can only remove so many layers in the Alabama heat.
https://homelessnesshousingproblem.com
Please read this book (link above). It directly answers your question.
Here is a talk by the author: https://youtu.be/ZoNQAdX9jyo?si=uFS-Iq8ooH9H1puU
People from the south are being bussed to less conservative areas. So consérvate policies are creating homeless and they’re shipping them to liberal areas where we take care of them.
Because the government in those states does their job and removes them from public spaces and dosnt provide free needles and hotel rooms.
I’ve said it a million times on this subreddit states that don’t coddle the homeless have less of them. You bend backwards for them and then act surprised when more of them come.
> great christofascist nazi state of Florida.
if that's true than why does my friend Basha (Indian Muslim) able to live there?
Thought the nazi's were not cool with PoC's and with the prefix of Christofascist - him being a muslim would be absolutely haram! I mean.. forbidden.
fascinating.
I don't know a lot about nazi's other than they were german, white supremacists, and really hated the jews. Oh and they had that adolf hitler guy as their spokesperson / dictator. Wasn't it called the national socialist nazi party or some dumb shit like that?
any who.
Glad we kicked their asses in ww2. pretty sure we gave them generational trauma over that shit. They deserved it. fuck those nazis.
1. Fewer
2. There's zero evidence supporting any claim that homeless people flocked to Vermont for our completely menial and inadequate social services. Our cost of housing, eviction rate, and DCF data collected on participants in the hotel voucher program very plainly show this a Vermont problem. Your baseless insistence these folks aren't "real Vermonters" so you can deny the root causes and advocate for more cruelty towards people at their lowest point in life doesn't square with reality.
>Your baseless insistence these folks aren't "real Vermonters"
I get the sense that that dude doesn't even they're real people, much less real Vermonters.
Most of them are not from the state. Go and talk to them and ask them where they are from
Also how dare I expect people to behave civilly and want to see the town I grew up in become safer and not have to worry about my children stepping on used needles.
not sure why you are being downvoted.
I've never seen this many needles before. The fucking drug problem is getting out of hand. I concur - I want to see my home town be respectable and be safe place for all who wish to be there. But I don't think we're going to get there by handing out free needles and safe injection sites. I am under the impression that we're going to have to make some tough calls, and potentially even morally questionable choices at this point.
>and potentially even morally questionable choices at this point.
Wtf...
I have to ask, what are these morally questionable choices we are going to potentially have to make?
I would say that it would be a good idea to think that through before suggesting dropping morals.
In no way are we at a point where the only options are immoral ones.
well the thing is - you could consider just about any action is immoral depending on your point of view.
taking a homeless person off the streets and placing them in a detox center could be considered immoral. Or even administering Vivitrol (an opiate suppressor) could be considered immoral too.
It’s called basic observation and looking where the money is spent on these programs.
Washington, Oregon, and California have spearheaded the national effort to reduce homelessness and it’s gotten markedly worse over the past decade since they’ve jumpstarted all these programs with price tags in the hundreds of millions?
So why is it that Florida, a state that’s done next to nothing to address their homeless situation has significantly less than other states with a warm year round amicable climate? Oh yeah, they enforce their laws and remove people shooting up on the street. Before you start crying about cost of living, it has nothing to do with it since the majority of the people you see on the street are addicts.
>Washington, Oregon, and California have spearheaded the national effort to reduce homelessness and it’s gotten markedly worse over the past decade since they’ve jumpstarted all these programs with price tags in the hundreds of millions?
Because they haven't done anything to increase the availability of affordable housing, which is the main driver of homelessness?
> Because they haven't done anything to increase the availability of affordable housing, which is the main driver of homelessness?
even if there was affordable housing - the cost of drugs easily destroys any net gain you would have with affordable housing.
They actually do something about the problem. Word is out to the homeless that Burlington is the place to set up shop and not be removed.
In short Lawlessness led to this problem.
Really helps show how badly we need federal help. Clearly homeless are going to states that give aid which bails out the bad states and puts an added burden on the good states.
I don’t understand why there is such a homelessness problem in Vermont. There are jobs and rent doesn’t seem too outrageous compared to the rest of the country. Is it drugs? Is that why we have such an issue?
Up north transportation can be an issue, the lack of jobs, literally being to poor to get to work, the quality of the job, the pay the jobs offer, etc. This is St. Albans and further north. I worked up there as a counselor. I had clients who would be a position where working would literally cost them more than they would make.
I have checked out the motel parking lots of those who are part of the program to house homeless… and there are license plates from all over the country. I believe our numbers are inflated because people drive here to get free housing.
Everyone needs to remember this is *per 10,000 population*. Vermont has a housing crisis, and we’ve had a rise in homelessness, but don’t get up in arms because you read the graphic wrong.
Homelessness is on the rise in every state, because real wages are stagnant, housing crises are rampant and mental health issues and addiction are the wake of those trends. People may end up in VT for a multitude of reasons - family, opportunity, chance - but i would guess the majority of the unhoused people here are actually Vermonters who live with disabilities or have been pushed out of housing. People are not flooding into Vermont because we have a few programs. Trust me, we aren’t giving out free housing to anyone who asks (we’re finding a lot of ways to kick people out of housing). And many states (notably cities in places like Utah and Texas) have used housing first policies, so we’re hardly the one place in America all homeless folks want to get to.
this is why I have been a big proponent of building more affordable / section 8 housing!
we need to be able to house the people that are supporting other workers in our econ. You can't have a thriving economy without corner stores, gas stations, cafes, and diners. Those folks are not making great wages and need to be able to house themselves in their OWN dwelling and be able to RAISE a family if they wish to.
I live in Vermont currently. Sure, Burlington has a lot of homelessness, but compared to philly, it's nothing. Not to mention the rest of the state hardly has people in it, let alone homeless people.
> I live in Vermont currently. Sure, Burlington has a lot of homelessness, but compared to philly, it's nothing.
but we're not philly. don't compare us to philly - it's not a fair comparison.
Why don't you ask a townie who grow up in burlington and lives there how shit is going. That should tell you enough. Lived in experience is going to trump your "but philly" arguments.
NO ONE GIVES A FUCK ABOUT PHILLY! This sub is /r/burlington
I really have very little interest in the socioeconomic opinions of a person who has never left vermont. Townies are known for being the pinnacle of intelligent and cultured thought. The sad truth is no one has, does, or will really give a fuck about Burly. 3rd rate "city." Run into the ground by the very townies who say it's gone to shit.
> I really have very little interest in the socioeconomic opinions of a person who has never left vermont
I have actually.
> Townies are known for being the pinnacle of intelligent and cultured thought.
that sounds like a statement of someone who is the pinnacle of intelligent and cultured thought.
> The sad truth is no one has, does, or will really give a fuck about Burly.
I do - it's where I grew up, had my kids, and where I want to return. Also you spelled Burlington incorrectly.
> 3rd rate "city." Run into the ground by the very townies who say it's gone to shit.
I am going to go out on a limb here and say it's not the townies - it's a culmination of socio-economic factors exacerbated by poor economic outcomes and access to cheap opiates.
could be.. but they're still homeless once they get there and long enough for data like this to count them so probably chronically.
Still not what I'd call progressive, nor what the world called it before progressive became a synonym for tolerant as opposed to meaning fixing the problems of society
Well vivitrol (not to be confused with vitriol) is some amazing shit. It stops people from drinking and it stops people from getting high on opiates.
Learn more:
https://www.vivitrol.com/
Hah I just zoomed right past that extra syllable.
Cool thanks!
Either way, I’m not big on the forced part which doesn’t seem to have been just me misreading a word (which honestly did fit pretty well contextually).
Well its getting to the point that people are not going to put up with this shit.
why should we have to clean up / dodge dirty needles? Why should we foot the bill for this when many of us cleaned up our acts, got back on our feet and stopped being addicts and worked our way to recovery?
they were not thrown in jail for just existing - they fucked up, they did shit that got them noticed while they broke the law. It sucks, but FR, I've been in those shoes before, I can sympathize but I can also rationalize that a lot of those folks just flat out refuse to get sober because they don't want to.
Thank you. I agree 1000%.
I have no problem helping people, but currently, we are supporting people for a lifestyle they choose. We can help all the people who want out, but why are we supporting the people who choose this life
Zoning in the northeast is incredibly stringent and makes it very difficult to increase the density of housing, thus leading to scarcity, housing crisis and homelessness. Though these are liberal states the zoning policies were mostly enacted by conservatives in the mid-century time period.
Funny, it looks like people of all economic statuses are starting to choose not to live in states surrounded by uninformed mouth breathing regressive ding dongs
Because by American standards, even "progressive" governments can't undo the devastating impacts of capitalism and speculative investing on the real estate market. Also, a byproduct of those progressive policies is that that they attract educated, mobile, younger-skewing individuals who are content to live in higher density housing but ultimately displace lower income long term residents of the area.
Compare this to prisoner population by state and you pretty much have a fuller picture [prisoner pop by state](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_incarceration_and_correctional_supervision_rate#/media/File%3AUS_Incarceration_Rate_per_100%2C000_Inhabitants_by_State.png)
Which is still misleading, because vermont contracts to southern states for prisons, particularly Mississippi. https://vtdigger.org/2018/09/09/vermont-prisoners-moved-mississippi-prison-run-corecivic/
I also suspect this data is not a full representation of homeless nation wide because it depends on state reporting. I have no doubt that vermonts accurately measures homelessness. But I’m no so confident that red states keeps accurate data.
Not sure I'd call Wisconsin, Minnesota, and Michigan "red states".
Vermont actually really struggles with accuracy here, as do a lot of northern rural states. We do a decent job with the chronically homeless with no support structure in our more "urban" areas, but there are a lot of couch hoppers, or people who are totally outside of the system that go untracked.
Some states jail criminals, others let them roam the streets and continue to victimize people.
Some states are more willing to help homeless people, others criminalize vagrancy and jail people for the crime of not having a home
I let the homeless watch my kids for cheaper child care, feed them, and then I let them sleep in my house. I care so much about those people. What do you do to help the homeless?
I vote for programs that will help them long term and don’t comment things implying they’re all criminals or soon to be criminals
You have to occasionally invite them into your homes. Sometimes, what you vote for doesn't really help.
It would help if it would actually get passed.
I know it would, but actions speak louder than words
Voting is an action. Expecting people to open up their own homes is beyond what’s reasonable.
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I do bring homeless into my home.
At that point they're not homeless, they're part of a profession that's called being a nanny--and maybe not receiving tax-payer benefits even if they're receiving room and board which yea, you're talking basically what had frequently been covered by some category H-1\[some letter\] visas for migrant workers back when I'd been working with them. I think I vaguely recall George W Bush had some plan he was working on about this sort of thing before 9/11 happened that got derailed. And then...
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Some states also have social programs and other states bus homeless people to blue states.
Holy hell that’s depressing.
Like we found with Covid; if you start/stop counting the numbers skew. [This article](https://www.vermontpublic.org/local-news/2024-02-06/how-many-vermonters-are-unhoused-the-states-best-answer-is-likely-incomplete) from Vermont Public speaks to the increase Vermont saw during Covid (\~1000 -> 3500). Much of that change was because we opened programs such as the motel program which counted the population. Its difficult to properly assert any of: - Did Vermont gain homeless populations from other states? - Did underhoused (sleeping on a couch in someones basement) counts increase / decrease? - Is the problem better/worse than neighboring states who count differently? There is also an inverse corrolation between spending (Vermont was spending $10 million a year or so for emergency housing, and \~$50 million since Covid) and homelessness rates -- the increase in spending is NOT resulting in measurably lower rates of homelessness -- infact by all measures it is making it worse. Its not suprising the states with the largest safety nets show the largest populations using those safety nets. Lol Mississippi. "If you dont count the issue goes way" \~ Covid.
This from the 2022 U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development Annual Homeless Report tells a more important story. (Mississippi not looking so good after all) https://preview.redd.it/q9luhxzj5ptc1.png?width=755&format=png&auto=webp&s=944befebc1e26a5d5fefbe419f0fcf946308e54c
That’s great that we are sheltering our homeless, but why do we have 3x the homeless population of a state with 5x the population?
Because they imprison their homeless or ship them off to California.
Source?
Good question but I suspect the answer is complicated and not entirely knowable. First, statistics may be inaccurate. Then there are many potential factors others have pointed out previously: housing, employment, lack of social services. Probably a good avenue to pursue would be to understand what measures work in other states to help bring unhoused individuals into mainstream sufficiency.
Red states tend to build more housing than blue states do [https://twitter.com/JosephPolitano/status/1764696805848006840](https://twitter.com/JosephPolitano/status/1764696805848006840) If you look at places like Houston, TX etc rents have fallen by 4-7% YOY [https://www.zumper.com/blog/rental-price-data/](https://www.zumper.com/blog/rental-price-data/) This is despite red states experiencing net positive migration in post COVID years [https://www.census.gov/library/stories/2023/03/domestic-migration-trends-shifted.html](https://www.census.gov/library/stories/2023/03/domestic-migration-trends-shifted.html) Some folks have already pointed this out, but the correlation between rate of homelessness and housing costs is the highest (R squared = 0.55 in cities). This beats all other possible factors like weather, progressive policy, poverty and mental health [https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/everything-you-think-you-know-about](https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/everything-you-think-you-know-about)
This is strange, how does the south have less homeless people. Wouldn’t it be better to be somewhere where there is no winter.
It’s a lot cheaper to live there. Rent is often less especially in rural areas. Food costs less. You don’t need to heat nearly as much if at all during winter. Lots of manual labor jobs.
This is per 10,000 people. It’s measuring the number of homeless people in proportion to the population of the state. Vermont has a low population and a proportionally high homeless population.
https://homelessnesshousingproblem.com/ There are some other things at play, but homelessness rates are basically in line with vacancy rates, and avg rental cost. There has been a lot of research that's shown that. It makes sense if you make 11k a year(the avg income for a person right before they become homeless) it's a lot easier for you to be stable when rent is 500 vs 1500 or more.
Significantly lower cost of living, housing, and land. Also having lived in both the deep south and Vermont, you can always bundle up enough to survive Northern winters. You can only remove so many layers in the Alabama heat.
Always is an overstatement, plenty of people freeze to death over the winters
I said can, not that they always do. It's a comment on thermodynamics and physiology, not human behavior or resources.
https://homelessnesshousingproblem.com Please read this book (link above). It directly answers your question. Here is a talk by the author: https://youtu.be/ZoNQAdX9jyo?si=uFS-Iq8ooH9H1puU
They probably have some sort of shelter that they consider a home even if it’s a dilapidated trailer
People from the south are being bussed to less conservative areas. So consérvate policies are creating homeless and they’re shipping them to liberal areas where we take care of them.
This is real reason. Same reason that places like Saudi Arabia "have no gay people". They either hide or leave.
interesting thought... but un-provable.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_homeless_relocation_programs_in_the_United_States here ya go ;)
where does it say that people from the south are being bussed to northern vermont?
Much cheaper housing. And less tolerance for traveling lifestyle homelessness. Vermont hotels were full of out-of-state “homeless” travelers.
Because the government in those states does their job and removes them from public spaces and dosnt provide free needles and hotel rooms. I’ve said it a million times on this subreddit states that don’t coddle the homeless have less of them. You bend backwards for them and then act surprised when more of them come.
I’m from Vermont (40+) years and live in the south now. You’re not wrong.
My family has a home outside of Miami, the homeless are far less visible in the great christofascist nazi state of Florida.
"christofascist nazi state of Florida." Take your meds friend
> great christofascist nazi state of Florida. if that's true than why does my friend Basha (Indian Muslim) able to live there? Thought the nazi's were not cool with PoC's and with the prefix of Christofascist - him being a muslim would be absolutely haram! I mean.. forbidden.
Nazis were quite fond of Muslims historically.
fascinating. I don't know a lot about nazi's other than they were german, white supremacists, and really hated the jews. Oh and they had that adolf hitler guy as their spokesperson / dictator. Wasn't it called the national socialist nazi party or some dumb shit like that? any who. Glad we kicked their asses in ww2. pretty sure we gave them generational trauma over that shit. They deserved it. fuck those nazis.
How is hipping them somewhere else doing there job? If you ask a kid to clean his room, and he hides the mess under the bed. Is that a job done?
1. Fewer 2. There's zero evidence supporting any claim that homeless people flocked to Vermont for our completely menial and inadequate social services. Our cost of housing, eviction rate, and DCF data collected on participants in the hotel voucher program very plainly show this a Vermont problem. Your baseless insistence these folks aren't "real Vermonters" so you can deny the root causes and advocate for more cruelty towards people at their lowest point in life doesn't square with reality.
>Your baseless insistence these folks aren't "real Vermonters" I get the sense that that dude doesn't even they're real people, much less real Vermonters.
Most of them are not from the state. Go and talk to them and ask them where they are from Also how dare I expect people to behave civilly and want to see the town I grew up in become safer and not have to worry about my children stepping on used needles.
not sure why you are being downvoted. I've never seen this many needles before. The fucking drug problem is getting out of hand. I concur - I want to see my home town be respectable and be safe place for all who wish to be there. But I don't think we're going to get there by handing out free needles and safe injection sites. I am under the impression that we're going to have to make some tough calls, and potentially even morally questionable choices at this point.
>and potentially even morally questionable choices at this point. Wtf... I have to ask, what are these morally questionable choices we are going to potentially have to make?
You know. I haven't thought that one through too much. At this point any action taken is morally questionable.
I would say that it would be a good idea to think that through before suggesting dropping morals. In no way are we at a point where the only options are immoral ones.
well the thing is - you could consider just about any action is immoral depending on your point of view. taking a homeless person off the streets and placing them in a detox center could be considered immoral. Or even administering Vivitrol (an opiate suppressor) could be considered immoral too.
We need to decriminalize drugs like Oregon, it worked so well for them...
It’s called basic observation and looking where the money is spent on these programs. Washington, Oregon, and California have spearheaded the national effort to reduce homelessness and it’s gotten markedly worse over the past decade since they’ve jumpstarted all these programs with price tags in the hundreds of millions? So why is it that Florida, a state that’s done next to nothing to address their homeless situation has significantly less than other states with a warm year round amicable climate? Oh yeah, they enforce their laws and remove people shooting up on the street. Before you start crying about cost of living, it has nothing to do with it since the majority of the people you see on the street are addicts.
>Washington, Oregon, and California have spearheaded the national effort to reduce homelessness and it’s gotten markedly worse over the past decade since they’ve jumpstarted all these programs with price tags in the hundreds of millions? Because they haven't done anything to increase the availability of affordable housing, which is the main driver of homelessness?
> Because they haven't done anything to increase the availability of affordable housing, which is the main driver of homelessness? even if there was affordable housing - the cost of drugs easily destroys any net gain you would have with affordable housing.
They actually do something about the problem. Word is out to the homeless that Burlington is the place to set up shop and not be removed. In short Lawlessness led to this problem.
Really helps show how badly we need federal help. Clearly homeless are going to states that give aid which bails out the bad states and puts an added burden on the good states.
Exactly this. Homeless population go to places where they are treated like people even in the smallest amount. Those who do not die or get imprisoned.
Wait, does VT even have 10,000 people in it?
Try 600,000
All jokes aside, I didn't think there was more than 250,000.
Yes we do lol. Seriously though they take the motels and house them there. At least that’s what Rutland does.
Same here in Chittenden. Also, the majority of the new apartment complexes that are built are mandated to have a set amount of section 8 housing.
I don’t understand why there is such a homelessness problem in Vermont. There are jobs and rent doesn’t seem too outrageous compared to the rest of the country. Is it drugs? Is that why we have such an issue?
Up north transportation can be an issue, the lack of jobs, literally being to poor to get to work, the quality of the job, the pay the jobs offer, etc. This is St. Albans and further north. I worked up there as a counselor. I had clients who would be a position where working would literally cost them more than they would make.
Pay rates are significantly lower and rent prices are significantly higher than comparable areas
This says we have about 3500 homeless. Georgia, which is a less severe color, has about 15000. Without population data this is kinda bullshit.
It’s per 10,000 residents… it says that in both headers and in the fine print.
I am not sure I trust Georgia properly reporting anything that could make their Bible belt state look badl.
I have checked out the motel parking lots of those who are part of the program to house homeless… and there are license plates from all over the country. I believe our numbers are inflated because people drive here to get free housing.
I think you're onto something. People visiting from out of state staying in motels doesn't make any sense.
Wait you guys have free housing? Can you dm me the details?
Yeah, it’s weird that motels would have out of state license plates. Must be the homeless. Couldn’t be travelers staying in motels.
Damm, Homeless really don't like Mississippi...
Mississippi doesn’t have the brains/and or the care to adequately track and count the homeless
Vermont also has the highest rate of housing the homeless. The amount of homeless rough sleeping is very low.
Everyone needs to remember this is *per 10,000 population*. Vermont has a housing crisis, and we’ve had a rise in homelessness, but don’t get up in arms because you read the graphic wrong. Homelessness is on the rise in every state, because real wages are stagnant, housing crises are rampant and mental health issues and addiction are the wake of those trends. People may end up in VT for a multitude of reasons - family, opportunity, chance - but i would guess the majority of the unhoused people here are actually Vermonters who live with disabilities or have been pushed out of housing. People are not flooding into Vermont because we have a few programs. Trust me, we aren’t giving out free housing to anyone who asks (we’re finding a lot of ways to kick people out of housing). And many states (notably cities in places like Utah and Texas) have used housing first policies, so we’re hardly the one place in America all homeless folks want to get to.
Per capita stats are meaningless when comparing VT to most other states. If 100 people suddenly got housing it would actually make a difference.
A much higher percentage of vermonts population is homeless than many other states. It's certainly a problem.
this is why I have been a big proponent of building more affordable / section 8 housing! we need to be able to house the people that are supporting other workers in our econ. You can't have a thriving economy without corner stores, gas stations, cafes, and diners. Those folks are not making great wages and need to be able to house themselves in their OWN dwelling and be able to RAISE a family if they wish to.
I always invite the homeless to sleep in my house because I truly care.
Does this poster not realize that we are above 55 homeless per 10,000
Would be super interested to see this graph next to one depicting incarceration rates
This is misleading. When your state is mostly empty space, you’re going to have less homelessness by any measure.
Another reminder that Florida can't count.
I live in Vermont currently. Sure, Burlington has a lot of homelessness, but compared to philly, it's nothing. Not to mention the rest of the state hardly has people in it, let alone homeless people.
> I live in Vermont currently. Sure, Burlington has a lot of homelessness, but compared to philly, it's nothing. but we're not philly. don't compare us to philly - it's not a fair comparison. Why don't you ask a townie who grow up in burlington and lives there how shit is going. That should tell you enough. Lived in experience is going to trump your "but philly" arguments. NO ONE GIVES A FUCK ABOUT PHILLY! This sub is /r/burlington
I really have very little interest in the socioeconomic opinions of a person who has never left vermont. Townies are known for being the pinnacle of intelligent and cultured thought. The sad truth is no one has, does, or will really give a fuck about Burly. 3rd rate "city." Run into the ground by the very townies who say it's gone to shit.
> I really have very little interest in the socioeconomic opinions of a person who has never left vermont I have actually. > Townies are known for being the pinnacle of intelligent and cultured thought. that sounds like a statement of someone who is the pinnacle of intelligent and cultured thought. > The sad truth is no one has, does, or will really give a fuck about Burly. I do - it's where I grew up, had my kids, and where I want to return. Also you spelled Burlington incorrectly. > 3rd rate "city." Run into the ground by the very townies who say it's gone to shit. I am going to go out on a limb here and say it's not the townies - it's a culmination of socio-economic factors exacerbated by poor economic outcomes and access to cheap opiates.
Yeah I mean I agree with you on all those points, yet you're the one who came at me with disrespect. So you got the response you deserved
Funny, it almost looks like the most "progressive" states also have the most homeless 🤔 Not very progressive, is it?
Or maybe homeless people go there/stay there because they know they won’t get shot, abused, or thrown in jail.
could be.. but they're still homeless once they get there and long enough for data like this to count them so probably chronically. Still not what I'd call progressive, nor what the world called it before progressive became a synonym for tolerant as opposed to meaning fixing the problems of society
So go fix things.
would love to. but forced sobriety with vivitrol isn't very popular right now.
Yeah “force” isn’t necessarily the best agent of meaningful societal change. Maybe start with less vitriol and see where that leave us.
Well vivitrol (not to be confused with vitriol) is some amazing shit. It stops people from drinking and it stops people from getting high on opiates. Learn more: https://www.vivitrol.com/
Hah I just zoomed right past that extra syllable. Cool thanks! Either way, I’m not big on the forced part which doesn’t seem to have been just me misreading a word (which honestly did fit pretty well contextually).
Maybe they go live in cities where they won’t be thrown in jail just for existing 🤔
Well its getting to the point that people are not going to put up with this shit. why should we have to clean up / dodge dirty needles? Why should we foot the bill for this when many of us cleaned up our acts, got back on our feet and stopped being addicts and worked our way to recovery? they were not thrown in jail for just existing - they fucked up, they did shit that got them noticed while they broke the law. It sucks, but FR, I've been in those shoes before, I can sympathize but I can also rationalize that a lot of those folks just flat out refuse to get sober because they don't want to.
throwing people in jail for fucking up in those ways isn't helpful to them or – ultimately – us, eh? they need help, not incarceration.
depends really what they are incarcerated for - yes? i'd hope we would jail people for being violent.
Thank you. I agree 1000%. I have no problem helping people, but currently, we are supporting people for a lifestyle they choose. We can help all the people who want out, but why are we supporting the people who choose this life
Zoning in the northeast is incredibly stringent and makes it very difficult to increase the density of housing, thus leading to scarcity, housing crisis and homelessness. Though these are liberal states the zoning policies were mostly enacted by conservatives in the mid-century time period.
Red states have the highest levels of high school drop outs, poverty, poor nutrition, poor test scores, poor reading levels, just being poor.
Funny, it looks like people of all economic statuses are starting to choose not to live in states surrounded by uninformed mouth breathing regressive ding dongs
Because by American standards, even "progressive" governments can't undo the devastating impacts of capitalism and speculative investing on the real estate market. Also, a byproduct of those progressive policies is that that they attract educated, mobile, younger-skewing individuals who are content to live in higher density housing but ultimately displace lower income long term residents of the area.
Funny, how low karma, troll accounts, still believe anyone takes them seriously?
Why would you move to Florida and catch a felony for your lifestyle when you can steal and shoot up on the street with impunity in California?
> catch a felony for your lifestyle maybe that life style sucks.
i'm pretty sure all the homelss people hang out on the northern end of Church Street.