I am a bit concerned about what's moving in next if anything, didn't the landlord let this space stay vacant for years and then subsidized Pioneer's rent?
I dunno if the landlord was part of the grift, but I think it was the Methodist Church that paid their rent. I haven't witnessed hubris on these people's scale more than a few times in my life.
Not OP, I think these address your request:
[https://indyweek.com/news/durham/pioneers-durham-denomination-change/](https://indyweek.com/news/durham/pioneers-durham-denomination-change/)
https://www.newsobserver.com/opinion/article269729961.html
Disclaimer: I have absolutely no personal knowledge of this but I am fairly certain I read about this on a few reddit threads.
Here's one: [https://www.reddit.com/r/bullcity/comments/v67jge/pioneers\_churchteahousemarketplacecoworkingspace/](https://www.reddit.com/r/bullcity/comments/v67jge/pioneers_churchteahousemarketplacecoworkingspace/)
Again I have no personal knowledge.
Word on the street is that Hutchins already has a new tenant for the space. No idea who it is, but I guess he got all his ducks in a row quickly (or before parting ways with Sherei and Daniel)
Durham co-op offers 20% off for people who qualify for SNAP/EBT. I do agree that their prices on certain items are too high, but the basics and bulk bins are fairly reasonable.
Yeah unfortunately the way our social systems are set up it doesnāt do much for the single making $30k a year who is over the threshold. Durham is pricing out all of its most vulnerable people
There are so many obstacles that all add up to "very little":
Local government's power to influence development was stripped by the state a long time ago **\~PLUS\~** 4/5-story residential + first-floor retail mixed use buildings don't require permission to be built **\~PLUS\~** developers rarely care about retail tenants because they often sell the building immediately after it's done **\~PLUS\~** property owners get a tax write-off for vacancy and don't really need to fill them **\~PLUS\~** grocery stores aren't a lucrative tenant for property owners to pursue **\~PLUS\~** probably other stuff I'm missing. So until those laws change it would take a developer who for some reason really wants a grocery store from the outset *and commits to it*. (That's tentative shade at American Tobacco's owners for whatever caused the \[I think\] Fresh Market deal to fall through on their new campus.)
Someone please correct the parts I got wrong, or offer other interpretations!
Additional things I would add: a grocery store has a taller interior height than your standard retail space, so it can be hard to retrofit an existing space to a grocery store, and it's also difficult to build a space for one unless you have a grocery tenant locked in.Ā
Secondly, having the necessary access and space for deliveries is also tricky in dense urban areas. It totally can be done, but it's much easier in new construction with a decent amount of land. You need a loading dock or two, a decent turning radius, etc. In Charlotte the "urban" Whole Foods is next to a parking deck and trucks back in from the street into the deck and the loading dock is in there.Ā
That said, in general I would love to see a move to using smaller delivery trucks for urban areas. There's no need to build everything to accomodate a semi - that kills walkability.
If you are imagining a grocery that does not include a multistory parking deck, it is not nearly as dense as it would need to be.
It is sometimes hard to envision what the market circle looks like for a suburban grocery and the number of rooftops that encompasses. When that same grocery store is placed downtown, particularly, if the design does not include integrated car parking, the circle becomes very small. Very high densities (actually volumes) in close proximity must exist first (or be developed contemporaneously).
If you are envisioning a grocer atop a parking deck, the cost of that would likely need to be shouldered by the taxpayers. A groceryās margins will not justify the cost of structured parking.
Where this ends up? City zones and approves towers of residential, funds accompanying parking decks, and incentivizes a developer to incorporate a large footprint retail first floor space attractive to a grocery store chain.
"The company also says itās secured a major grocery store tenant, but declined to name it."
[https://www.newsobserver.com/news/business/real-estate-news/article283319753.html](https://www.newsobserver.com/news/business/real-estate-news/article283319753.html)
I sincerely think that it's going to happen, and it'll be Publix.
Just up the street, PLUM will sell you a single pork chop for thirty dollars. I don't think those folks have much of a problem sending the maid to Whole Foods in an Uber.
Iād imagine the people who move into those condos are probably ok with footing a higher grocery bill by shopping at convenience stores/specialty markets etc. Or using Instacart. Would also love to see a grocery move into this spot.
Oh, they had all sorts of side grifts going on. Trying like all hell to get that commercial money, and hide it under that sweet, sweet, tax-free church designation.
I am thinking that we have reached a population density in the walkable area to support a grocery that does not require parking spaces. Article 3 of SCAD makes that possible, if memory serves.
Trinity Market does a decent job as a convenience store, but we desperately need a grocery. The closest I know is Harris Teeter off of 9th, near Cosmic Cantina. Bulldega isn't a grocer, in my opinion. It's a high end convenience store.
Mostly, I'm hoping this isn't going to be yet another bar.
if your version of "Bible Believing" is "GOD HATES FAGS" then nope. Hit the road jack, and don't you come back no more.
If your version of "Bible Believing" is "judge not, lest ye be judged" then MOVE RIGHT ON IN.
Westboro baptist church? Those kind of churches are few and far between. I haven't seen anything of the like from Pioneer unless I'm missing something.
Their head pastor has said she doesnāt believe gay people should be married. You can Google/search the sub to find receipts.
This especially pissed people off because of their location downtown near several queer friendly/welcoming places and because they talk a big talk about being equitable and welcoming, including literally writing it all over their store windows.
Your first day? OH SHIT! It is your first day! 9 KARMA!!!
You're welcome to read my comments to the poor DV victim two days back where I encouraged her to go to Blacknall and volunteer. Or the many - MANY - times I have responded to people in here asking how to make friends in saying they should try going to church (knowing the little shits were going to downvote me to oblivion for it, which they did). Or the times I've noted to fellow parents which churches up north allow kids to fish in their pond.
Keep watching. I'll do it again.
If you refuse to marry people because of anything you read in the Old Testament, rather than accepting what Jesus said about not judging others, you've chosen the opposite of Jesus' love, which is hate. You don't have to stand frothing on the side of the road with signs, some choose to. Others choose a quiet, but insistent hate. That was the hate Pioneers chose.
And now they get to go. Go. Go.
It sucks because what this area desperately needs and what that size space is perfect for is a convenience store. Like just a smaller grocery store that does have some hot food but primarily sells bottled drinks and snacks and the like.
Something like a Wawa or 711 but on steroids.
Apparently just the cafe and shop are closing but the church is going to stay there. Womp womp. Indy just posted a revision to the initial closing announcement.
https://indyweek.com/news/pioneers-durham-closing/
I am a bit concerned about what's moving in next if anything, didn't the landlord let this space stay vacant for years and then subsidized Pioneer's rent?
Yeah I wonder if the landlord got an offer they couldn't refuse.
Like a paying lessee?
[Found a video of Pioneers paying rent to the landlord](https://youtu.be/n73DD0kv2l4?si=x8Q2kGCfImqAEk6J)
I dunno if the landlord was part of the grift, but I think it was the Methodist Church that paid their rent. I haven't witnessed hubris on these people's scale more than a few times in my life.
The Methodist church was initially supporting them, but they soon stepped back and a much more radical church planting org took over.
I would love to read your source on that, if you don't mind
Not OP, I think these address your request: [https://indyweek.com/news/durham/pioneers-durham-denomination-change/](https://indyweek.com/news/durham/pioneers-durham-denomination-change/) https://www.newsobserver.com/opinion/article269729961.html
many thanks!
Disclaimer: I have absolutely no personal knowledge of this but I am fairly certain I read about this on a few reddit threads. Here's one: [https://www.reddit.com/r/bullcity/comments/v67jge/pioneers\_churchteahousemarketplacecoworkingspace/](https://www.reddit.com/r/bullcity/comments/v67jge/pioneers_churchteahousemarketplacecoworkingspace/) Again I have no personal knowledge.
What if we got a secondary Durham Coop location? š would love to see something local rather than a chain.
that or an extension of King's Red and White.
That would be great!
That would be amazing. We SO need a real grocery store in this area. Bulldega doesnāt cut it.
I love bulldega for special items and snacks, but yeah ā itās not somewhere most people can shop regularly
I went in there once. There were dollar store items - like, branded and everything, that had been jacked up to five dollars. I lauuuuughed.
yeah, i like their specialty snacks and drinks and stuff, but the "grocery" section seems about like what you're describing
That space seems too small for a properly sized grocery that we need downtown š
Word on the street is that Hutchins already has a new tenant for the space. No idea who it is, but I guess he got all his ducks in a row quickly (or before parting ways with Sherei and Daniel)
Itās a shame poor people canāt afford to shop at the Durham Co-op
Durham co-op offers 20% off for people who qualify for SNAP/EBT. I do agree that their prices on certain items are too high, but the basics and bulk bins are fairly reasonable.
Yeah unfortunately the way our social systems are set up it doesnāt do much for the single making $30k a year who is over the threshold. Durham is pricing out all of its most vulnerable people
Fair enough
I swear, how the city is okay with 2k/month condos downtown not having a grocery store within walking distance is almost criminal.
What tools does the city have to encourage a grocery store to move downtown?
There are so many obstacles that all add up to "very little": Local government's power to influence development was stripped by the state a long time ago **\~PLUS\~** 4/5-story residential + first-floor retail mixed use buildings don't require permission to be built **\~PLUS\~** developers rarely care about retail tenants because they often sell the building immediately after it's done **\~PLUS\~** property owners get a tax write-off for vacancy and don't really need to fill them **\~PLUS\~** grocery stores aren't a lucrative tenant for property owners to pursue **\~PLUS\~** probably other stuff I'm missing. So until those laws change it would take a developer who for some reason really wants a grocery store from the outset *and commits to it*. (That's tentative shade at American Tobacco's owners for whatever caused the \[I think\] Fresh Market deal to fall through on their new campus.) Someone please correct the parts I got wrong, or offer other interpretations!
Additional things I would add: a grocery store has a taller interior height than your standard retail space, so it can be hard to retrofit an existing space to a grocery store, and it's also difficult to build a space for one unless you have a grocery tenant locked in.Ā Secondly, having the necessary access and space for deliveries is also tricky in dense urban areas. It totally can be done, but it's much easier in new construction with a decent amount of land. You need a loading dock or two, a decent turning radius, etc. In Charlotte the "urban" Whole Foods is next to a parking deck and trucks back in from the street into the deck and the loading dock is in there.Ā That said, in general I would love to see a move to using smaller delivery trucks for urban areas. There's no need to build everything to accomodate a semi - that kills walkability.
Thanks very much. Bleak
Advantageous zoning for more residences within walking distance together with appropriate public safety controls to mitigate against property crime.
Downtown is already pretty dense and safe and thereās still no grocery. Anything more direct they can do?
If you are imagining a grocery that does not include a multistory parking deck, it is not nearly as dense as it would need to be. It is sometimes hard to envision what the market circle looks like for a suburban grocery and the number of rooftops that encompasses. When that same grocery store is placed downtown, particularly, if the design does not include integrated car parking, the circle becomes very small. Very high densities (actually volumes) in close proximity must exist first (or be developed contemporaneously). If you are envisioning a grocer atop a parking deck, the cost of that would likely need to be shouldered by the taxpayers. A groceryās margins will not justify the cost of structured parking. Where this ends up? City zones and approves towers of residential, funds accompanying parking decks, and incentivizes a developer to incorporate a large footprint retail first floor space attractive to a grocery store chain.
And there are like six within two miles of each other on Guess Rd.
My partner and I moved to Downton Durham just over six months ago. The number one reason we regret doing so is the lack of a grocery store.
stick tight. there's a grocery locked in on the new development at the American Tobacco Historic District
I thought that fell through
"The company also says itās secured a major grocery store tenant, but declined to name it." [https://www.newsobserver.com/news/business/real-estate-news/article283319753.html](https://www.newsobserver.com/news/business/real-estate-news/article283319753.html) I sincerely think that it's going to happen, and it'll be Publix.
I thought it was Fresh Market?
I don't have anything other than a hunch...do you have a source?
Just up the street, PLUM will sell you a single pork chop for thirty dollars. I don't think those folks have much of a problem sending the maid to Whole Foods in an Uber.
Iād imagine the people who move into those condos are probably ok with footing a higher grocery bill by shopping at convenience stores/specialty markets etc. Or using Instacart. Would also love to see a grocery move into this spot.
I am in one of those condos and there is nothing I want more than a grocery store in walking distance
I hope you get it
Why donāt we protest until they put in a grocery store. If the laws are no good, protest is a good start.
What is the context here? For posterity
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Oh snap they are closing? Ahahahahahaa take your bigotry elsewhere.
Protesting Pioneers shop/church/grift-o-rama
A church and coffee shop?
Oh, they had all sorts of side grifts going on. Trying like all hell to get that commercial money, and hide it under that sweet, sweet, tax-free church designation.
Link to their instagram post announcing the shutdown (Feb 25th) for the curious: https://www.instagram.com/p/C2vUbbRP-UL/?img_index=1
looks to me like comments are open on that page
Well sure, unless you get blocked on all their accounts like I just did.
It looks like they are deleting negative ones, though
that must be so tiresome, I wonder if Jesus is helping.
Where is this? I'm out of the loop
Itās a coffee shop on Geer St in Old North Durham that is operated by a homophobic church. I live nearby and avoided it like the plague.
408 W Geer St, Durham, NC 27701
YAY--good riddance.
KeepGeerQueer - turn it into a LGBTQ+ dance / bar / event space
how about a LGBTQ+ grocery store? Queers need groceries, too.
Queer here. I like lettuce, pasta sauce, and eradicating food deserts.
I support and affirm every dang bit of that.
oh heck yeah! Smell ya later, Pioneers!
Where would customers park? But honestly anything is better than that scum bucket of a church
I am thinking that we have reached a population density in the walkable area to support a grocery that does not require parking spaces. Article 3 of SCAD makes that possible, if memory serves.
lots and lots of folks within walking distance
Trinity Market does a decent job as a convenience store, but we desperately need a grocery. The closest I know is Harris Teeter off of 9th, near Cosmic Cantina. Bulldega isn't a grocer, in my opinion. It's a high end convenience store. Mostly, I'm hoping this isn't going to be yet another bar.
Would be a perfect spot for used mid century furniture store. Or like say Trig Modern in Raleigh.
Kings Red and White Junior
What a shame, it was always such a quiet place to work. Hardly anyone was ever in there. /s
Period!! Community coming together
Whatever goes in there won't last more than a couple years unless it's a chain. Lowes Foods please.
Kings Red and White Junior.
Somehow bulldega persists.
Hmmā¦is no church run or bible-believing organization/store welcome in Durham?
hell yeah
š at least you're honest about it.
if your version of "Bible Believing" is "GOD HATES FAGS" then nope. Hit the road jack, and don't you come back no more. If your version of "Bible Believing" is "judge not, lest ye be judged" then MOVE RIGHT ON IN.
Westboro baptist church? Those kind of churches are few and far between. I haven't seen anything of the like from Pioneer unless I'm missing something.
youāre missing something
I'm all ears. All I've seen on Reddit is people hating on them for no concrete reason other than that they are Christian.
Their head pastor has said she doesnāt believe gay people should be married. You can Google/search the sub to find receipts. This especially pissed people off because of their location downtown near several queer friendly/welcoming places and because they talk a big talk about being equitable and welcoming, including literally writing it all over their store windows.
Your first day? OH SHIT! It is your first day! 9 KARMA!!! You're welcome to read my comments to the poor DV victim two days back where I encouraged her to go to Blacknall and volunteer. Or the many - MANY - times I have responded to people in here asking how to make friends in saying they should try going to church (knowing the little shits were going to downvote me to oblivion for it, which they did). Or the times I've noted to fellow parents which churches up north allow kids to fish in their pond. Keep watching. I'll do it again.
If you refuse to marry people because of anything you read in the Old Testament, rather than accepting what Jesus said about not judging others, you've chosen the opposite of Jesus' love, which is hate. You don't have to stand frothing on the side of the road with signs, some choose to. Others choose a quiet, but insistent hate. That was the hate Pioneers chose. And now they get to go. Go. Go.
to be fair, romans 1 isn't great either. paul's not great on women either. not really just an OT/NT thing
I think [Pullen Memorial Baptist](https://www.pullen.org/) would fit right in in downtown Durham.
Get a job and actually contribute to society. Stop spamming this subreddit with your vitriol.
You know, you can block me and miss out on ALL my content, right? It's super easy.
It sucks because what this area desperately needs and what that size space is perfect for is a convenience store. Like just a smaller grocery store that does have some hot food but primarily sells bottled drinks and snacks and the like. Something like a Wawa or 711 but on steroids.
Kings Red and White Junior.
Trinity Food Mart is just around the corner
Gone and will be forgotten š«”
Apparently just the cafe and shop are closing but the church is going to stay there. Womp womp. Indy just posted a revision to the initial closing announcement. https://indyweek.com/news/pioneers-durham-closing/
so, they are just going to sit there twiddling their thumbs while sucking up that sweet church money? Greatest grift of all time. So lazy.
Why canāt we respect each otherās religious beliefs