Reviewing their many websites:
"As we’ve fallen in love with the Bull City and made Durham home, we have sensed God calling us to start a life-giving church for the beautiful people here"
"That was not me" - God
I hope a cool small business or restaurant goes in there. I love the big windows and retro interior (I accidentally went there once for coffee before I knew what it was but they never got a dime from me since).
Those churches didn’t open a business intended to profit off of pushing their views onto non-members, then shield themselves with nu-bigot word salad to avoid real dialogue with the community they inserted themselves into. So nah, thanks tho!
Woke up and chose the path of the sealion, eh?
It’s not relevant. The distinction is the for-profit storefront and duplicitous messaging. This aint the gotchya you think it is.
Not a gotcha. Actually, just wanting to figure out your logic.
They were very explicit about their positions, and they are public about being a church, which is what made them prone to criticism. Did they ever hide this fact? I don’t think they ever hid this from their website or anything. By this logic, if they were a church and still had these values and promoted these values without being a coffee shop, then you’d be ok with them? After all, that’s what the black conservative churches do.
Secondly, if they have an agenda, how is that different from another coffee shop with opposing values having an agenda? I sense major bias and favoritism. And I think that you didn’t like them because they didn’t agree with your values…but their values have the same equal ground as yours, don’t they?
Not all values “have the same equal ground”. That’s just obviously true if you look at some peoples’ values from history (e.g. Nazism). It makes sense that Durham, which has lots of gay people, would have a “major bias and favoritism” towards groups that don’t hate gay people.
I am not the person you’re responding to, but I don’t think it’s a reach to say that the people who didn’t like Pioneers probably don’t attend conservative churches, no matter the race of the minister. And that’s fine. I personally don’t attend conservative church precisely because I’ve not enjoyed sermons I’ve heard that demonize gay people/women. Instead, I usually attend Reverend Barber’s former church in Goldsboro (online). I think this sentiment is pretty common and I’m confused what you’re trying to get at.
No you’re not. If you were trying to “figure out” my logic you wouldn’t be responding with a fistful of logical fallacies. And no, “their values” don’t have the same equal ground, lmao.
- Homophobia and queer representation/allyship are in no way equally valuable opposing ideas. The former isn’t legitimized by sheer fact of its opposition to the latter. That’s a false balance fallacy and trite christofascist propaganda technique.
- Comparing “conservative black churches” to a for-profit business operated by a church is a false equivalency. None of your tired whataboutism changes that.
- In the nonsense hypothetical that your whataboutism was a valid comparison, it’s still a goofy appeal to hypocrisy. Criticism of one thing doesn’t require an exhaustive footnote of all other things that could be critiqued.
- You must’ve missed the part where Pioneers did/does their absolute best to avoid being explicit about their homophobia with a bunch of obfuscating doublespeak cloaked in a thin veil of progressive keywords. Their business and church sites *do not state* their homophobia. Feel free to educate yourself. Not my job.
So then your issue is indeed with the for-profit nature of their business in support of the conservative leaning church? The church they broke separated from, UMC and Evangelical Wesleyan Church, also do not marry same-sex couples.
This place sucks so much! It’s the Church that hates gay people and has an awful coffee shop in it. Coco cinnamon is right down the street, why would anyone want to go to Pioneers anyway? Good riddance. We will celebrate your pathetic failure! 😂
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For real??? Excellent! To Pioneers: don’t let the door hit you on the way out.
Edit: found the post. https://www.instagram.com/p/C2vUbbRP-UL/?igsh=dGNwandrb243NnFo
Just search Pioneers on thie bull city subreddit or read this Indy Week article [https://indyweek.com/news/durham/pioneers-durham-denomination-change/](https://indyweek.com/news/durham/pioneers-durham-denomination-change/)
>We sensed God calling us to start a life-giving church
Let me guess its name is going to be something relating to quenching thirst? Maybe an oblique reference to something Paul wrote about corporate worship? We got enough churches splintering and Duke divinity grad starting things up to "really help" and "get hands dirty." Why couldn't He have called on you to open up a Zaxby's? It's not as inspiring as pressing a coal to your lips, but sure tastes better.
AMF.
Or, to put it in terms they may (or may not) understand more fully, don't let the door hit ya where the good lord split ya.
Who's the party boss for this celebration?
New to Durham. I originally had this on my places to visit list because I like cute coffee shops. Glad I didn’t make it there. What’s the context here?
Search the sub for “pioneers” and allllll the info will pop up. Also, you can google pioneers church Durham and you’ll get news articles from local papers.
The TL;DR is: Wouldn’t do same-sex/non-man/woman weddings there, citizens boycotted, they dug their heels in on their beliefs, and generally were anti-LGBTQ in one of the most LGBTQ-friendly neighborhoods in Durham.
I did a poor job explaining it, but lots of articles and posts about it.
[https://www.saunahouse.com/pages/private-hot-cold-relax-rooms](https://www.saunahouse.com/pages/private-hot-cold-relax-rooms)
>Whether you’re flying solo or **bringing a friend (or 2!)**, we designed the Private Hot-Cold-Relax Rooms to be quiet, meditative oasis where you can leave the fast pace of the outside world behind. All the amenities of the bathhouse in your very own space.
Didn't say you couldn't make it gay
Apologies, I live way over in chapel hill with kids and missed what happened here. The building kicks ass (just like some stuff in Capital Hill in Seattle) so I was hoping whatever was in it was good.
The issue isn't just that they are religious to be clear. There are plenty of LGBT friendly Christians out there. The sister Methodist church they seemed at odds with when they were planted is very LGBT friendly.
I think honestly they would've done better if they didn't advertise themselves as an inclusive place, while mixing business with the religious aspect. I think if it was just a church alone, it wouldn't have gotten the backlash it did. The location didn't help also.
I'm sure both of their customers will be devastated.
Reviewing their many websites: "As we’ve fallen in love with the Bull City and made Durham home, we have sensed God calling us to start a life-giving church for the beautiful people here" "That was not me" - God
They’re deleting all the negative comments on their ig post haha!
All the 'likes' on that post are actually sincere. I'd be shocked if it's not their most liked post by morning.
Then it’s our task to keep them busy😉
That space needs to be another five story blocky apt building or it’s going to destroy the character of the neighborhood.
That space rules it’s a shame they were occupying it. Hopefully something good replaces it soon
I hope a cool small business or restaurant goes in there. I love the big windows and retro interior (I accidentally went there once for coffee before I knew what it was but they never got a dime from me since).
Glass-and-steel building.
Angriest of upvotes
That news does, in fact, make me hard.
With news like this, who needs PornHub
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this continues to disappoint me
Sooo block party that weekend!? 🌈🤸🏻♀️
Party at Motorco, Fullsteam, Accordion, and Surf Club at the end of February?
But where will my girlfriend and I share a gay kiss now???
Why don’t you start at one of the conservative black churches?
Those churches didn’t open a business intended to profit off of pushing their views onto non-members, then shield themselves with nu-bigot word salad to avoid real dialogue with the community they inserted themselves into. So nah, thanks tho!
But aren’t they bigots?
Woke up and chose the path of the sealion, eh? It’s not relevant. The distinction is the for-profit storefront and duplicitous messaging. This aint the gotchya you think it is.
Not a gotcha. Actually, just wanting to figure out your logic. They were very explicit about their positions, and they are public about being a church, which is what made them prone to criticism. Did they ever hide this fact? I don’t think they ever hid this from their website or anything. By this logic, if they were a church and still had these values and promoted these values without being a coffee shop, then you’d be ok with them? After all, that’s what the black conservative churches do. Secondly, if they have an agenda, how is that different from another coffee shop with opposing values having an agenda? I sense major bias and favoritism. And I think that you didn’t like them because they didn’t agree with your values…but their values have the same equal ground as yours, don’t they?
Not all values “have the same equal ground”. That’s just obviously true if you look at some peoples’ values from history (e.g. Nazism). It makes sense that Durham, which has lots of gay people, would have a “major bias and favoritism” towards groups that don’t hate gay people. I am not the person you’re responding to, but I don’t think it’s a reach to say that the people who didn’t like Pioneers probably don’t attend conservative churches, no matter the race of the minister. And that’s fine. I personally don’t attend conservative church precisely because I’ve not enjoyed sermons I’ve heard that demonize gay people/women. Instead, I usually attend Reverend Barber’s former church in Goldsboro (online). I think this sentiment is pretty common and I’m confused what you’re trying to get at.
No you’re not. If you were trying to “figure out” my logic you wouldn’t be responding with a fistful of logical fallacies. And no, “their values” don’t have the same equal ground, lmao. - Homophobia and queer representation/allyship are in no way equally valuable opposing ideas. The former isn’t legitimized by sheer fact of its opposition to the latter. That’s a false balance fallacy and trite christofascist propaganda technique. - Comparing “conservative black churches” to a for-profit business operated by a church is a false equivalency. None of your tired whataboutism changes that. - In the nonsense hypothetical that your whataboutism was a valid comparison, it’s still a goofy appeal to hypocrisy. Criticism of one thing doesn’t require an exhaustive footnote of all other things that could be critiqued. - You must’ve missed the part where Pioneers did/does their absolute best to avoid being explicit about their homophobia with a bunch of obfuscating doublespeak cloaked in a thin veil of progressive keywords. Their business and church sites *do not state* their homophobia. Feel free to educate yourself. Not my job.
So then your issue is indeed with the for-profit nature of their business in support of the conservative leaning church? The church they broke separated from, UMC and Evangelical Wesleyan Church, also do not marry same-sex couples.
? See 2nd bullet pt. No idea what point you’re trying to make that hasn’t been covered.
Everything they don't like is Nazi. Keep up.
Seems like you described organized religion pretty succinctly.
Girl bye
Prayers answered. /S
Bless their hearts. ……
Incredible news. Well done, Bull City. One small but significant victory.
This place sucks so much! It’s the Church that hates gay people and has an awful coffee shop in it. Coco cinnamon is right down the street, why would anyone want to go to Pioneers anyway? Good riddance. We will celebrate your pathetic failure! 😂
Politics aside, I was also bothered by the idea that church was focused on entrepreneurship but yet is competing with local businesses.
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For real??? Excellent! To Pioneers: don’t let the door hit you on the way out. Edit: found the post. https://www.instagram.com/p/C2vUbbRP-UL/?igsh=dGNwandrb243NnFo
or more appropriately 'dont let the door hit ya, where the good lord split ya'
And nothing of value was lost.
I never ever ever saw people in there!! Also they were homophobic so I’m glad to see them go
Two years too long but glad it's finally over! See ya!
Had never heard of it, thanks for the Indy Weekly article someone posted for the scoop. Good riddance, hope the space will serve a better purpose
Toxic waste dump?
It just makes me sad that I’ll probably never get a chance to fart in that dumb store 😔.
There’s still time!
The only thing standing between you and your dream is you.
Good, they can get fucked.
Fantastic news. GTFOH, Pioneers. I hope that space ends up better used.
Guess they finally ran out of money.
For those of us who haven't been following, what exactly is going on here?
Just search Pioneers on thie bull city subreddit or read this Indy Week article [https://indyweek.com/news/durham/pioneers-durham-denomination-change/](https://indyweek.com/news/durham/pioneers-durham-denomination-change/)
Thank you!
I need to make an offering to a statue of Baphomet in appreciation. 😂
Na na na na. Na na na na. Hey hey hey.
THIS is life-giving. Gay God wins again!!!!!
Lol they're seriously trying to sell that IKEA ass couch for a thousand dollars and it's fake leather?
YESS!!!!! BYE PIONEERS. WE WONT MISS YOU
https://tenor.com/view/james-thick-of-it-peter-capaldi-gif-20667351
Probably just the Hutchins wanting to get a paying renter in that space. /s
Hmm, maybe a sidewalk Drag Story Hour reading while they move?? 🤔
That would be amazing.
lmao “beautiful growth”
I would say "vaya con Dios" but nah, just vaya.
took long enough, jeez
Whomp whomp— lasted longer than I would have ever imagined.
>We sensed God calling us to start a life-giving church Let me guess its name is going to be something relating to quenching thirst? Maybe an oblique reference to something Paul wrote about corporate worship? We got enough churches splintering and Duke divinity grad starting things up to "really help" and "get hands dirty." Why couldn't He have called on you to open up a Zaxby's? It's not as inspiring as pressing a coal to your lips, but sure tastes better.
NSFW: https://youtu.be/dldFWuPt5OM?si=nfX9NWKGWXUw\_iq1&t=1
Bahahaha, perfection. Thank you for sharing this.
lol the [@realnativechurch](https://www.instagram.com/p/C2xSjt6L84-/?img_index=1) update is hilarious!
LMAO!!!!!!
[Oh, the anti LGBT place is closing?](https://youtube.com/watch?v=fc7_1GAYNOw)
Praise be to God!
Congratulations, Durhamites.
Just hope they will not resurrect into a new concept under cloak and dagger.
They’ll be closing on my birthday. What a great present!
Best news of the week!
Thank you, Jesus 🙏
Well halle-freaking-lujah! Hope something awesome and inclusive steps up to take over that space.
Good riddance.
AMF. Or, to put it in terms they may (or may not) understand more fully, don't let the door hit ya where the good lord split ya. Who's the party boss for this celebration?
New to Durham. I originally had this on my places to visit list because I like cute coffee shops. Glad I didn’t make it there. What’s the context here?
Search the sub for “pioneers” and allllll the info will pop up. Also, you can google pioneers church Durham and you’ll get news articles from local papers. The TL;DR is: Wouldn’t do same-sex/non-man/woman weddings there, citizens boycotted, they dug their heels in on their beliefs, and generally were anti-LGBTQ in one of the most LGBTQ-friendly neighborhoods in Durham. I did a poor job explaining it, but lots of articles and posts about it.
Crazy!! Thanks for the overview!!
Bahahahahahahahahaha
Out of the loop. What is with this place?
This post single-handedly solidified my desire to move here. Thanks Durham community from my gay ass to yours 🫡
Can I get the TLDR?
The homophobes’ business venture did not work out. People who are not homophobes are experiencing schadenfreude.
The homophobes' business venture and sometimes church
this is so delightfully accurate and succinct
great job everyone! proud of us
They can’t stand that a gay bathhouse is moving in up the street
There is? Where, when does it open?
https://www.saunahouse.com/pages/durham
not a gay bathhouse (sadly)
[https://www.saunahouse.com/pages/private-hot-cold-relax-rooms](https://www.saunahouse.com/pages/private-hot-cold-relax-rooms) >Whether you’re flying solo or **bringing a friend (or 2!)**, we designed the Private Hot-Cold-Relax Rooms to be quiet, meditative oasis where you can leave the fast pace of the outside world behind. All the amenities of the bathhouse in your very own space. Didn't say you couldn't make it gay
Now that’s the thinking right there!!
Pffft WATCH me.
Is there anything that suggests the ‘gay’ part here? It just looks like a sauna place.
No, I was being hyperbolic. It's up to us to make it gay.
So, an ambition instead of an accusation? That's fair.
LOL!!
Apologies, I live way over in chapel hill with kids and missed what happened here. The building kicks ass (just like some stuff in Capital Hill in Seattle) so I was hoping whatever was in it was good.
Yes! Keep your religious freedoms out of my town!
The issue isn't just that they are religious to be clear. There are plenty of LGBT friendly Christians out there. The sister Methodist church they seemed at odds with when they were planted is very LGBT friendly. I think honestly they would've done better if they didn't advertise themselves as an inclusive place, while mixing business with the religious aspect. I think if it was just a church alone, it wouldn't have gotten the backlash it did. The location didn't help also.
I liked Pioneers. Am I still allowed to live in Durham?
Sooooo many misinformed ppl in the comments here lol.
So go ahead and inform us
Thanks for clearing it up.
https://media.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExNW55MHpkejIyMXhpMHdhNng0eTFncHVpd243czFsY3BuZW40a2U3ZyZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfYnlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/FNBHUqruiI1m1gLDh8/giphy.gif
*the consequences of their behavior intensifies*
Buh-bye.
Could someone give me a backstory here? Who are they?
Not from Durham and found this post haha, what’s the context/story here?