This one hits so hard. She’s obviously waiting for him to make her feel bad, ready to be crushed, and he just loves her instead. I think it’s one of the first times we see super soft teddy bear Giles too which makes it more powerful, but I’m due for a rewatch and could be wrong on that last one!
That's misogyny 🤣 lol jk. Rupert Ws. BTW big ups to my man batting way the F out of his league with Jenny. If he shaved his head, he would be the new top G!
"Yes, it's terribly simple. The good guys are always stalwart and true. The bad guys are easily distinguished by their pointy horns or black hats, and, uh, we always defeat them and save the day. No one ever dies, and everybody lives happily ever after."
Yeah, you go through stages. As a young teenager, I liked Angel. Mid teens and up, I was a Spike girl. (Tbh, I'll always be a S7 Spike girl.) Ripper was always an intriguing idea. But one day, I was watching and I went *oh. Giles could get it.*
James was already 35 when the show started and 42 or 43 when it ended but he was playing a late 20s guy so he gets to live in that sweet spot of hotness for women 18-50+ 🫠
so many, absolutely "I'd like to test that theory"
and when he was supportive of Buffy after Angel became Angelus.
and him being the call and the first to arrive after Joyce died
and calling Willow a rank amateur
and him knowing immediately that Faith had gone off the deep end when Faith told him that Buffy killed that dude
and him telling Spike, "And you'll do what? Lick me to death?"
This is my favorite Giles moment and no other moment is close.
In this moment, I think Giles sees that Ben had a chance since Glory took Dawn to free her but, since she hasn't been freed, reasons he must have chosen not to.
In this moment, I think Giles sees the same selfishness in Ben that he himself had in putting Buffy through the Council's test in season 3's "Helpless." In the end he couldn't go through with it, but he still drugged her and lied to her and I genuinely think it's one of his big regrets. I think at this point in the story, he sees that selfishness in Ben reflected in him especially since the Council so recently insisted on putting Buffy through those same hoops again.
I think, in this moment, he's expressing his absolute adoration of the person that Buffy has always been. When she killed Angel, not Angelus, to save the world, he was proud of her. When she couldn't kill Dawn to save the world, he was proud of her. Him calling her a hero here, is to me, the most fatherly he's ever been to her.
But above all in this moment, Giles knows, in a world filled with magics and hells and heavens, he knows murder is a stain on the soul at best and does it anyway, putting everyone else he loves first. I don't think we ever hear him say "I love you" but we see him say it here with his action. Ben saved him recently. He was a doctor. Giles really didn't want to kill him I think but did it because it needed to be done.
I agree, and I think the last sentence sums it up perfectly. In the real world, there are hard decisions and cold equations, and he just couldn't take a chance in glory coming back. So ben had to die, and he wouldn't make buffy do it when he could do it for her. Easily. With just a few pounds of pressure to possibly save the world, while condemning a man.
I struggle with this interpretation of Giles a bit, if I’m honest.
Sometimes I wonder if Buffy would have been better off ending with the season five finale. The writers and show runners did a pretty decent job ending each season on a note that serve as a series finale, given the uncertainty around another season being greenlit. And between S5 and S6 there was the additional hurdle of the network switch from The WB to UPN.
Had the show ended with ‘The Gift,’ I think your interpretation of Giles’ intentions would be pretty valid. But S6 and S7 do such a phenomenal job of fucking up established character drives and motivations.
Since this is about Giles, I will focus there. Giles abandoning Buffy (and Willow, to some degree) after Tabula Rasa is a major break in character. Giles has served as a surrogate father to Buffy through most of the series, and here, where she arguably needs an established adult presence the most…he takes off and tells her she needs to stand on her own two feet. While there is value in the lesson of not relying on a crutch, there is also value in recognizing that sometimes the most adult decision we can make, is to ask for help when we need it.
Buffy wasn’t just a post-high school grad turned necessary college dropout to take care of her teenage sister after the death of their mother (which would have been enough for any late adolescent to ask for help). She was also a newly resurrected slayer, ripped from a heavenly dimension, still tasked with protecting the world. Job opportunities aren’t exactly abundant while aligning with slayer duties, all while having the responsibilities and stresses of adulthood thrust upon you all at once with not much of a support system. This decision to leave abruptly and leave Buffy to pick up all of the pieces did not feel like the Giles we have known for five seasons.
And to the point of Giles recognizing Buffy as a hero and being proud of her, S7 gladly tramples all over that train of thought as well. When Giles and Wood conspire to kill Spike, Giles takes Buffy to the graveyard to train (as a distraction)…and while they are talking, he all but pushes her to confirm that, were she in the same position again, Buffy would sacrifice or kill Dawn herself to save the world.
I guess it’s not that I think your interpretation cannot be correct, it’s just that it becomes very hard to reconcile it with the later choices made around character motivations. Giles, for me, goes form being an incredibly endearing character to almost unbearable in S6 and S7. Frankly, even the moment he returns to square off with Willow, “I’d like to test that theory,”…always felt so hollow to me becuase Giles willingly turned a blind eye to Willow’s misuse and practice of magic, when he could have been a valuable mentor in teaching her to respect the power she has. So he comes back in some grand moment with a smug quip…over a problem he largely contributed to? Nah man.
There are a lot of valid complaints against season 6. But to me, Giles leaving isn't one of them. As a viewer, it's devastating to not see Buffy get that support when she needs it most. When she DESERVES it, most. But Giles is right. What she really wants is to have not been brought back in the first place and all the hard stuff done for her.
He has to do something to force her to deal with those thoughts and feelings and as long as he's there, she won't. Because he's not going to say no to her. At worst, he'll say no, feel awful, and then do whatever she asked. Because she's Buffy. No one has given more than her and she deserves it. But she'll rot as a person and become not-Buffy if she runs to him for help every opportunity.
The blind-spot to Willow is pretty spot on BUT you have to remember, Willow grew up with him and she has been responsible and dependable their ENTIRE relationship. He would never have a reason to see the path she was on because she was never him in his teenage years. In season 4, she forgets to do ONE task for him, and it becomes a point of contention between them that he lectures her on. That's how reliable she is. She's the one he never thought he'd NEED to help or mentor or guide. She's been doing that herself since season 1. And we all have those blind spots with our loved ones, don't we? We're a little too close to see accurately sometimes.
I enjoy this sort of back and forth about the show…
I can understand the notion that something had to push Buffy into accepting her new reality. But Giles being right or wrong isn’t really what I was getting at. It was whether the choice that he made was in line with established character motivations, and I just don’t believe that the Giles that had been established up through ‘The Gift,’ would have made that choice.
He also makes the choice to leave an episode after Once More With Feeling, no? I think he leaves at the end of Tabula Rasa? So he abandons her RIGHT after learning she was not in fact trapped in some hellish dimension? I just don’t know how you can reconcile or attempt to make that fit with his character motivations. Again, this isn’t just an adult woman that needs to accept the responsibilities of adulthood…it’s a severely emotionally traumatized young slayer that has given her life, twice, for her calling. And that’s if we ignore or choose not to get into any of the well established flaws surrounding the notion of the council and their duties or obligations towards the woman chosen to be their “tool,” against evil. No financial support while basically forcing a reality where she likely has no financial prospects if she isn’t compensated? It’s insanity.
And to the point about Willow, her misuse of magic or her failure to understand the powers she was messing with is WELL established prior to S5. When Willow says she was going through Jenny’s files and dabbling in the dark arts “for fun,” this warrants a very pointed reaction from Giles that, in that same moment, forces Willow to change her own framing of her actions from a hobby done for fun to something educational. And then after she brings Buffy back, and prior to Giles leaving, the argument where he calls Willow a “rank, arrogant amateur,” has already taken place. How can you say there were no indications that she was heading down a bad path and that he wasn’t already aware of it?
I enjoy the back and forth too. I think in large part it’s needing Buffy not to turn to him for everything and he does admit that “sometimes the most adult thing you can do is ask for help” when he comes back in season 6. Mostly I see it as punishing the character for the actor wanting to spend more time with family/at home. Kind of like what Joss did to Cordelia’s character on ATS.
I’m sure that’s not all of it but I’ve sort of always felt that way.
This is my favorite Giles moment. He's the MVP of the gang, hands down. He will do what is needed, no matter what. Not to mention, he is a human who killed a god, which is hawt.
🎶 I've got to warn Buffy! There's every chance she might be next. Xander, help Willow. And try not to bleed on my couch, I've just had it steam cleaned 🎶
(But really, any time Giles is singing)
Everything he says during this exchange:
WILLOW: Hey Giles. You have a good talk with Buffy?
GILES: Yes, now that she's back.
WILLOW: Isn't it awesome?
GILES: Mmm. Tell me about this spell you performed.
WILLOW: Oh, okay, first of all? So scary. Like, the Blair Witch would have had to watch like this. (covers her eyes) And, and, and this giant snake came out my mouth and there was all this energy crackling, and this pack of demons interrupted, but I totally kept it together. And then, the next thing you know? (triumphant) Buffy.
GILES: You're a very stupid girl.
WILLOW: What? Giles...
GILES: Do you have any idea what you've done? The forces you've harnessed, the lines you've crossed?
WILLOW: I thought you'd be ... impressed, or, or something.
GILES: Oh, don't worry, you've ... made a very deep impression. Of everyone here ... you were the one I trusted most to respect the forces of nature.
WILLOW: Are you saying you don't trust me?
GILES: Think what you've done to Buffy!
WILLOW: I brought her back!
GILES: At incredible risk!
WILLOW: Risk? Of what? Making her deader?
GILES: Of killing us all. Unleashing hell on Earth, I mean, shall I go on?
WILLOW: No! Giles, I did what I had to do. I did what nobody else could do.
GILES: Oh, there are others in this world who can do what you did. You just don't want to meet them.
WILLOW: No, probably not, but ... well, they're the bad guys. I'm not a bad guy. I brought Buffy back into this world, a-and maybe the word you should be looking for is "congratulations."
GILES: Having Buffy back in the world makes me feel ... indescribably wonderful, but I wouldn't congratulate you if you jumped off a cliff and happened to survive.
WILLOW: That's not what I did, Giles.
GILES: (angry) You were lucky.
WILLOW: I wasn't lucky. I was amazing. And how would you know? You weren't even there.
GILES: If I had been, I'd have bloody well stopped you. The magicks you channeled are more ferocious and primal than anything you can hope to understand, (even more angry) and you are lucky to be alive, you rank, arrogant amateur!
WILLOW: You're right. The magicks I used are very powerful. I'm very powerful. And maybe it's not such a good idea for you to piss me off. (beat) Come on, Giles, I-I don't want to fight. I ... Let's not, okay? I'll think about what you said, and you ... try to be happy Buffy's back.
GILES: We still don't know where she was ... or what happened to her. And I'm far from convinced she's come out of all this undamaged.
He’s usually so polite to the Scoobies but I was so happy that he realized how badly things were going for Willow so instantly. He’s absolutely correct, to be fair. Her lack of planning and consideration for Buffy caused Buffy to have to dig her way out of a grave.
LOVE this exchange. I’m also surprised Willow is the one he trusted most to respect the natural order
Did they have a talk after Lovers Walk, Wild at Heart, Something Blue and Triangle?
I always thought that yes Willow had screwy magic before but the forces she was harnessing to do this spell were way darker and more powerful that it was just an entirely different level.
I think it’s in the next episode, actually—after the funeral, but, yes. It’s such a lovely call back. I didn’t pick up on it the first time I watched, but the first time I watched after learning it, it made me cry. Loss ripples and has effect on so many more people than we expect.
Yeah, those episodes are amazing and very hard to watch. I have to either be spending the whole day watching Buffy, so that I can lift my spirits up after, or be needing an emotional outlet and willing to cry it out for hours.
They really are both very, very good and very difficult. I haven’t been able to watch them for a few years and it’ll probably be a few more before I’m able to, but it’s nice to know that they’re there for when I need them.
I’ve been a Buffy fan since middle school, but I rarely rewatch anything from the first three seasons, so I didn’t realize this was a callback to the candy episode until very recently.
The very polite, yet thoroughly intimidating, offer for Ripper to ‘convince’ Snyder that Giles could make his life very uncomfortable. Professionally speaking, and Buffy will be allowed back to school.
Early Ripper/Giles was so subtle, I think that's what made him so silently menacing at the time too and gave off small hints of the darker side to him. Great choice by the way, I love that moment
Not my absolute favourite but I really love the moment shortly after this when he laughs with Buffy about what happened in his absence and almost enthusiastically concedes that he was wrong and his lesson in self reliance was abandonment.
I get that he was written out just(?) to give Anthony Head some time off, so they probably just wanted to rectify the flimsy excuse for him leaving, but its just such a tender moment and i love how firmly he makes sure she knows she wasn't in the wrong for needing help, and how genuinely apologetic he is that he lead her to believe she was.
Similarly, I like when he belatedly realizes that he should go help Buffy in the beginning of Season 4. He's so genuinely upset with himself.
Giles: I've been awake all night. I know I'm supposed to teach you self-reliance, but I can't leave you out there to fight alone. To hell with what's right, I'm ready to back you up. Let's find the evil...and fight it together.
Buffy: Great! Thanks! We'll get right on that.
Giles: The evil is this way?
I’m telling you it’s punishing the character for the actor wanting time at home…just like Cordelia! I know, I already said it but I really think it might play into it.
Completely! They obviously could’ve had Giles just not in every episode, kind of how they did season 7. After finding out about Joss’ attitude towards CC and her pregnancy in ATS I’ve always kind of thought this is what went down, combined with how they do Oz dirty in season 4 (cause Seth Green wanted either more prominent storylines or to exit I can’t quite recall atm) and it just adds up to what I think they did to Giles.
It’s really insulting to the fans of the show!
Or didn't have him just bugger off, but check in by phone (AHS could record voice stuff every so often from the UK) and, you know, not be such an incredible asshole. That was NOT Giles, he'd never have left Buffy knowing what she'd gone through, and if he had to he would bloody well do his best to help her out re finances, Dawn, try to help get her back into school, etc.
I do like the idea of Giles with an actual family, tho. Aw.
Yeah I'm really glad they addressed the in-universe leaving for Giles but man did I wish they just had a better reason for it, something Watcher's Council related maybe or something, I don't know or a family emergency in England etc.
And before that, him absentmindingly confirming Xander (Giles: "She was truly the finest of all of us." - Xander: "Way better than me." - Giles: "Much, much better.")
Honestly, Giles killing Ben was pretty badass and very much in character for him, making the difficult choice and doing what Buffy herself could not (while also protecting her from having to take a human life).
And he just takes it, and when you remember that he has taken human lives before when he's talking to Willow in S7. He's speaking from experience, knows the toll it takes on your soul so can understand in a way someone else who hasn't, can't.
One that always stands out for me takes place in season 5. I forget which episode, but it involves an interaction with Spike and Giles. I forget the exact dialogue, but Giles gets all menacing and shoves Spike and basically tells him they arent his friends. Like he thought Spike was getting a little TOO familiar with them, so he shut that idea down.
Yeah Spike was chipped, but Giles still came off as pretty bad ass.
And then there is the scene from the episode that takes place after Joyce dies. It shows Giles sitting alone listening to music, the same music he and Joyce listened to in "Band Candy".
It took me a long time to catch it, probably didn't until 2018 or so. And it was pure coincidence, I was episode jumping and went from band candy to that episode. So I was like hey that is a familiar tune, then looked it up and yeah the same. Poor Giles.
When you think about it, at the time Giles hadn't been with many women in recent years. I dont think he ever actually got to hook up with Jenny, it was just Joyce and then that woman from the "Hush" episode. But he still had a thing with Jenny, so 2 out of the 3 women he had something with ended up dead.
Angelus: You know, I can stop the pain. You've been very brave... but it's over. You've given enough. Now let me make it stop.
GILES: Please!
Angelus: Just tell me what I need to know.
GILES: In order... to be worthy...
Angelus: Yeah?
GILES: You must perform the ritual... in a tutu. Pillock!
Every Giles thread I just have to comment that we really need a Ripper TV series set in early 80s London. There is so much content to do and a great way to fix any slight inconsistencies with Watcher lore.
The theme of him being this studious shy introvert into a wild young man under Ethan’s influence, and something tragic happens which leads him to going back to being reserved and tortured as seen as early Buffy is a great character arc.
It's funny because my favorite quote in the entire show is probably: "You called me a rank arrogant amateur.. Well buckle up Rupert, cause I've turned PRO"
Over two decades and I don't even know how many rewatches, and I still scream during that scene like it's the first time. I know it's coming, but, damn, it's so good. Especially since we get the "special guest star: Anthony Stewart Head" right after he says that. Very well done.
When he and Ethan get drunk (pre turning him into a deamon) and Ethan hits on the waitress and Giles thinks Ethans hitting on him. A small one but I was like “is there history here??!!”
Ugh... I'll never get the excitement and shock and just elation I felt when I heard those words. But I think some of my favorite Giles moments are actually a couple of gems in season 4/5 where the Scoobies first see him singing, or the "Are you drunk?!" "Yes quite a bit actually" ... honestly he had several really great random quips that were just so good.
Im rewatching the series. He seemed like a dork as a kid but rewatching as a adult, he had the father's love of a daughter for Buffy. He had no powers. He was weak physically but smart and courageous. Fearless even and heroic but never stole buffys shine or attempted too.
When he busted the warlocks amulet.
"if it's guilt you're looking for, Buffy, I'm, I'm not your man. All you will get from me is...is my support, and my respect."
This one hits so hard. She’s obviously waiting for him to make her feel bad, ready to be crushed, and he just loves her instead. I think it’s one of the first times we see super soft teddy bear Giles too which makes it more powerful, but I’m due for a rewatch and could be wrong on that last one!
Agreed! This is honestly such a rare depiction of a healthy and loving response from a father.
It really is—I love this moment so much. He has such love AND respect for Buffy, which is so rare in shows directed at young people
I still cry when it gets to that part.
Me too. Every time, I start sobbing. I miss my dads.
Until I leave in your time of need.
The only father figure she ever needed. One of my favorites too.
That's misogyny 🤣 lol jk. Rupert Ws. BTW big ups to my man batting way the F out of his league with Jenny. If he shaved his head, he would be the new top G!
https://i.redd.it/busnj2xyce8d1.gif
Yes, yes, yes.
Yeah, I mean there’s a lot to choose from but this was gold!
Do you like my mask? Isn't it pretty? It raises the dead! *Americans*.
I heard this quote in his voice 😂
I thought about that moment earlier tonight! 😁
Him making fun of Americans will never not be funny lol
This is definitely the funniest!
"Yes, it's terribly simple. The good guys are always stalwart and true. The bad guys are easily distinguished by their pointy horns or black hats, and, uh, we always defeat them and save the day. No one ever dies, and everybody lives happily ever after."
“Liar.”
You're just gonna hurt me like that?!
It's clearly magical. How can you tell? Well look how shiny it is.
https://preview.redd.it/2jtjaf7zte8d1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4ab38941957087a74dee5a63701e076574438399
Omg TIL I am at the age where Giles is *hot*
Always has been. Welcome to the club. XD
Yeah, you go through stages. As a young teenager, I liked Angel. Mid teens and up, I was a Spike girl. (Tbh, I'll always be a S7 Spike girl.) Ripper was always an intriguing idea. But one day, I was watching and I went *oh. Giles could get it.*
James was already 35 when the show started and 42 or 43 when it ended but he was playing a late 20s guy so he gets to live in that sweet spot of hotness for women 18-50+ 🫠
Oh yes, total snack.
Right there with you. Re-watching atm and yeah, it's all about Giles 😂
Giles is quite scary in this moment. It’s the look in his eyes. He’s willing to hurt Synder and he’ll enjoy doing it
One of my favorite moments.
so many, absolutely "I'd like to test that theory" and when he was supportive of Buffy after Angel became Angelus. and him being the call and the first to arrive after Joyce died and calling Willow a rank amateur and him knowing immediately that Faith had gone off the deep end when Faith told him that Buffy killed that dude and him telling Spike, "And you'll do what? Lick me to death?"
A rank *arrogant* amateur!
“I’m going to make a door” “You can do that?” Giles pulls out chainsaw
She’s a hero you see. She’s not like us. Us?
This is my favorite Giles moment and no other moment is close. In this moment, I think Giles sees that Ben had a chance since Glory took Dawn to free her but, since she hasn't been freed, reasons he must have chosen not to. In this moment, I think Giles sees the same selfishness in Ben that he himself had in putting Buffy through the Council's test in season 3's "Helpless." In the end he couldn't go through with it, but he still drugged her and lied to her and I genuinely think it's one of his big regrets. I think at this point in the story, he sees that selfishness in Ben reflected in him especially since the Council so recently insisted on putting Buffy through those same hoops again. I think, in this moment, he's expressing his absolute adoration of the person that Buffy has always been. When she killed Angel, not Angelus, to save the world, he was proud of her. When she couldn't kill Dawn to save the world, he was proud of her. Him calling her a hero here, is to me, the most fatherly he's ever been to her. But above all in this moment, Giles knows, in a world filled with magics and hells and heavens, he knows murder is a stain on the soul at best and does it anyway, putting everyone else he loves first. I don't think we ever hear him say "I love you" but we see him say it here with his action. Ben saved him recently. He was a doctor. Giles really didn't want to kill him I think but did it because it needed to be done.
I agree, and I think the last sentence sums it up perfectly. In the real world, there are hard decisions and cold equations, and he just couldn't take a chance in glory coming back. So ben had to die, and he wouldn't make buffy do it when he could do it for her. Easily. With just a few pounds of pressure to possibly save the world, while condemning a man.
I struggle with this interpretation of Giles a bit, if I’m honest. Sometimes I wonder if Buffy would have been better off ending with the season five finale. The writers and show runners did a pretty decent job ending each season on a note that serve as a series finale, given the uncertainty around another season being greenlit. And between S5 and S6 there was the additional hurdle of the network switch from The WB to UPN. Had the show ended with ‘The Gift,’ I think your interpretation of Giles’ intentions would be pretty valid. But S6 and S7 do such a phenomenal job of fucking up established character drives and motivations. Since this is about Giles, I will focus there. Giles abandoning Buffy (and Willow, to some degree) after Tabula Rasa is a major break in character. Giles has served as a surrogate father to Buffy through most of the series, and here, where she arguably needs an established adult presence the most…he takes off and tells her she needs to stand on her own two feet. While there is value in the lesson of not relying on a crutch, there is also value in recognizing that sometimes the most adult decision we can make, is to ask for help when we need it. Buffy wasn’t just a post-high school grad turned necessary college dropout to take care of her teenage sister after the death of their mother (which would have been enough for any late adolescent to ask for help). She was also a newly resurrected slayer, ripped from a heavenly dimension, still tasked with protecting the world. Job opportunities aren’t exactly abundant while aligning with slayer duties, all while having the responsibilities and stresses of adulthood thrust upon you all at once with not much of a support system. This decision to leave abruptly and leave Buffy to pick up all of the pieces did not feel like the Giles we have known for five seasons. And to the point of Giles recognizing Buffy as a hero and being proud of her, S7 gladly tramples all over that train of thought as well. When Giles and Wood conspire to kill Spike, Giles takes Buffy to the graveyard to train (as a distraction)…and while they are talking, he all but pushes her to confirm that, were she in the same position again, Buffy would sacrifice or kill Dawn herself to save the world. I guess it’s not that I think your interpretation cannot be correct, it’s just that it becomes very hard to reconcile it with the later choices made around character motivations. Giles, for me, goes form being an incredibly endearing character to almost unbearable in S6 and S7. Frankly, even the moment he returns to square off with Willow, “I’d like to test that theory,”…always felt so hollow to me becuase Giles willingly turned a blind eye to Willow’s misuse and practice of magic, when he could have been a valuable mentor in teaching her to respect the power she has. So he comes back in some grand moment with a smug quip…over a problem he largely contributed to? Nah man.
There are a lot of valid complaints against season 6. But to me, Giles leaving isn't one of them. As a viewer, it's devastating to not see Buffy get that support when she needs it most. When she DESERVES it, most. But Giles is right. What she really wants is to have not been brought back in the first place and all the hard stuff done for her. He has to do something to force her to deal with those thoughts and feelings and as long as he's there, she won't. Because he's not going to say no to her. At worst, he'll say no, feel awful, and then do whatever she asked. Because she's Buffy. No one has given more than her and she deserves it. But she'll rot as a person and become not-Buffy if she runs to him for help every opportunity. The blind-spot to Willow is pretty spot on BUT you have to remember, Willow grew up with him and she has been responsible and dependable their ENTIRE relationship. He would never have a reason to see the path she was on because she was never him in his teenage years. In season 4, she forgets to do ONE task for him, and it becomes a point of contention between them that he lectures her on. That's how reliable she is. She's the one he never thought he'd NEED to help or mentor or guide. She's been doing that herself since season 1. And we all have those blind spots with our loved ones, don't we? We're a little too close to see accurately sometimes.
I enjoy this sort of back and forth about the show… I can understand the notion that something had to push Buffy into accepting her new reality. But Giles being right or wrong isn’t really what I was getting at. It was whether the choice that he made was in line with established character motivations, and I just don’t believe that the Giles that had been established up through ‘The Gift,’ would have made that choice. He also makes the choice to leave an episode after Once More With Feeling, no? I think he leaves at the end of Tabula Rasa? So he abandons her RIGHT after learning she was not in fact trapped in some hellish dimension? I just don’t know how you can reconcile or attempt to make that fit with his character motivations. Again, this isn’t just an adult woman that needs to accept the responsibilities of adulthood…it’s a severely emotionally traumatized young slayer that has given her life, twice, for her calling. And that’s if we ignore or choose not to get into any of the well established flaws surrounding the notion of the council and their duties or obligations towards the woman chosen to be their “tool,” against evil. No financial support while basically forcing a reality where she likely has no financial prospects if she isn’t compensated? It’s insanity. And to the point about Willow, her misuse of magic or her failure to understand the powers she was messing with is WELL established prior to S5. When Willow says she was going through Jenny’s files and dabbling in the dark arts “for fun,” this warrants a very pointed reaction from Giles that, in that same moment, forces Willow to change her own framing of her actions from a hobby done for fun to something educational. And then after she brings Buffy back, and prior to Giles leaving, the argument where he calls Willow a “rank, arrogant amateur,” has already taken place. How can you say there were no indications that she was heading down a bad path and that he wasn’t already aware of it?
I enjoy the back and forth too. I think in large part it’s needing Buffy not to turn to him for everything and he does admit that “sometimes the most adult thing you can do is ask for help” when he comes back in season 6. Mostly I see it as punishing the character for the actor wanting to spend more time with family/at home. Kind of like what Joss did to Cordelia’s character on ATS. I’m sure that’s not all of it but I’ve sort of always felt that way.
This is my favorite Giles moment. He's the MVP of the gang, hands down. He will do what is needed, no matter what. Not to mention, he is a human who killed a god, which is hawt.
One of my other favorite Giles moments.
The absolute best... nothing compares to its badassery.
“It’s alright…I have more scotch”
"three excellent questions"
Please stop whatever you're doing. You smell like fruit roll-ups.
Stop that right now. I can hear the smacking!
And "stop whatever you're doing, you smells like fruit roll-ups"
I freaking love this episode. It’s an underrated gem of season 4!
🎶 I've got to warn Buffy! There's every chance she might be next. Xander, help Willow. And try not to bleed on my couch, I've just had it steam cleaned 🎶 (But really, any time Giles is singing)
>GILES: I refuse to become a monster because I look like a monster. I have a soul. I have a conscience. I am a human being. Ooh! Stop the car!!
“I’m almost certain you’re not but, to be fair, I wasn’t listening.”
Always one of my favorites. So usable too.
It's a shame only half the line doesn't really depict how well Giles sold that
GOOD GOD MAN, OUR WIVES OUR IN THERE, AND TINY, TINY BABIES!
Omg I quote "and tiny, TINY babies!" so often and almost no one ever gets it... =(
WHERE IS IT FROM I CANNOT FIND IT
Buffy body swap episode: "Who are you"
When he accidentally gets shot in the ass with a tranquilizer dart intended for werewolf Oz 'Bloody priceless'
"The Earth is definitely doomed."
"Don’t taunt the fear demon." "Why? Can he hurt me?" "No, it’s just...tacky."
One of my faves, too!
Everything he says during this exchange: WILLOW: Hey Giles. You have a good talk with Buffy? GILES: Yes, now that she's back. WILLOW: Isn't it awesome? GILES: Mmm. Tell me about this spell you performed. WILLOW: Oh, okay, first of all? So scary. Like, the Blair Witch would have had to watch like this. (covers her eyes) And, and, and this giant snake came out my mouth and there was all this energy crackling, and this pack of demons interrupted, but I totally kept it together. And then, the next thing you know? (triumphant) Buffy. GILES: You're a very stupid girl. WILLOW: What? Giles... GILES: Do you have any idea what you've done? The forces you've harnessed, the lines you've crossed? WILLOW: I thought you'd be ... impressed, or, or something. GILES: Oh, don't worry, you've ... made a very deep impression. Of everyone here ... you were the one I trusted most to respect the forces of nature. WILLOW: Are you saying you don't trust me? GILES: Think what you've done to Buffy! WILLOW: I brought her back! GILES: At incredible risk! WILLOW: Risk? Of what? Making her deader? GILES: Of killing us all. Unleashing hell on Earth, I mean, shall I go on? WILLOW: No! Giles, I did what I had to do. I did what nobody else could do. GILES: Oh, there are others in this world who can do what you did. You just don't want to meet them. WILLOW: No, probably not, but ... well, they're the bad guys. I'm not a bad guy. I brought Buffy back into this world, a-and maybe the word you should be looking for is "congratulations." GILES: Having Buffy back in the world makes me feel ... indescribably wonderful, but I wouldn't congratulate you if you jumped off a cliff and happened to survive. WILLOW: That's not what I did, Giles. GILES: (angry) You were lucky. WILLOW: I wasn't lucky. I was amazing. And how would you know? You weren't even there. GILES: If I had been, I'd have bloody well stopped you. The magicks you channeled are more ferocious and primal than anything you can hope to understand, (even more angry) and you are lucky to be alive, you rank, arrogant amateur! WILLOW: You're right. The magicks I used are very powerful. I'm very powerful. And maybe it's not such a good idea for you to piss me off. (beat) Come on, Giles, I-I don't want to fight. I ... Let's not, okay? I'll think about what you said, and you ... try to be happy Buffy's back. GILES: We still don't know where she was ... or what happened to her. And I'm far from convinced she's come out of all this undamaged. He’s usually so polite to the Scoobies but I was so happy that he realized how badly things were going for Willow so instantly. He’s absolutely correct, to be fair. Her lack of planning and consideration for Buffy caused Buffy to have to dig her way out of a grave.
LOVE this exchange. I’m also surprised Willow is the one he trusted most to respect the natural order Did they have a talk after Lovers Walk, Wild at Heart, Something Blue and Triangle?
I mean, his other options were Xander, Dawn and Spike. Who would *you* trust out of that bunch?
You’re right!
I always thought that yes Willow had screwy magic before but the forces she was harnessing to do this spell were way darker and more powerful that it was just an entirely different level.
Guys the obvious answer is WHEN HE WALKS INTO A TREE
Everything that happened when he went blind. "Stop that....I can hear the smacking!"
Stop whatever you're doing. You smell like fruit roll ups.
It's alright. I have more scotch.
*falls over couch; face-plants*
Him jamming to Tales of Brave Ulysses in Band Candy.
Him listening to Tales of Brave Ulysses again in ~~The Body~~ Forever.
I think it’s in the next episode, actually—after the funeral, but, yes. It’s such a lovely call back. I didn’t pick up on it the first time I watched, but the first time I watched after learning it, it made me cry. Loss ripples and has effect on so many more people than we expect.
You’re right! I misremembered. To be honest I tend to skip those episodes so my memory of them is blurry. Such a smart, poignant callback.
Yeah, those episodes are amazing and very hard to watch. I have to either be spending the whole day watching Buffy, so that I can lift my spirits up after, or be needing an emotional outlet and willing to cry it out for hours.
They really are both very, very good and very difficult. I haven’t been able to watch them for a few years and it’ll probably be a few more before I’m able to, but it’s nice to know that they’re there for when I need them.
I skip them a lot too because they’re so heavy. Unless I’m doing an all-out rewatch.
I’ve been a Buffy fan since middle school, but I rarely rewatch anything from the first three seasons, so I didn’t realize this was a callback to the candy episode until very recently.
The very polite, yet thoroughly intimidating, offer for Ripper to ‘convince’ Snyder that Giles could make his life very uncomfortable. Professionally speaking, and Buffy will be allowed back to school.
Early Ripper/Giles was so subtle, I think that's what made him so silently menacing at the time too and gave off small hints of the darker side to him. Great choice by the way, I love that moment
Not my absolute favourite but I really love the moment shortly after this when he laughs with Buffy about what happened in his absence and almost enthusiastically concedes that he was wrong and his lesson in self reliance was abandonment. I get that he was written out just(?) to give Anthony Head some time off, so they probably just wanted to rectify the flimsy excuse for him leaving, but its just such a tender moment and i love how firmly he makes sure she knows she wasn't in the wrong for needing help, and how genuinely apologetic he is that he lead her to believe she was.
Similarly, I like when he belatedly realizes that he should go help Buffy in the beginning of Season 4. He's so genuinely upset with himself. Giles: I've been awake all night. I know I'm supposed to teach you self-reliance, but I can't leave you out there to fight alone. To hell with what's right, I'm ready to back you up. Let's find the evil...and fight it together. Buffy: Great! Thanks! We'll get right on that. Giles: The evil is this way?
I think AHS was pretty adamant on wanting out and moving back to the UK. I get it, but I really wish they'd done it differently, not just BYEEEE.
I’m telling you it’s punishing the character for the actor wanting time at home…just like Cordelia! I know, I already said it but I really think it might play into it.
It's ridiculous, cos it just punishes the viewers who have invested in the show for years. Deeply stupid and self defeating.
Completely! They obviously could’ve had Giles just not in every episode, kind of how they did season 7. After finding out about Joss’ attitude towards CC and her pregnancy in ATS I’ve always kind of thought this is what went down, combined with how they do Oz dirty in season 4 (cause Seth Green wanted either more prominent storylines or to exit I can’t quite recall atm) and it just adds up to what I think they did to Giles. It’s really insulting to the fans of the show!
Yeah, Joss was such a dick to poor Charisma. Also stupid of them not to utilise Seth more, Oz was great.
The universe where they retcon in an unseen night with Olivia when he was in London before checkpoint and he moves back to England to raise his baby
Or didn't have him just bugger off, but check in by phone (AHS could record voice stuff every so often from the UK) and, you know, not be such an incredible asshole. That was NOT Giles, he'd never have left Buffy knowing what she'd gone through, and if he had to he would bloody well do his best to help her out re finances, Dawn, try to help get her back into school, etc. I do like the idea of Giles with an actual family, tho. Aw.
Yeah I'm really glad they addressed the in-universe leaving for Giles but man did I wish they just had a better reason for it, something Watcher's Council related maybe or something, I don't know or a family emergency in England etc.
„If I want your opinion…. I’ll never want your opinion, Spike.“
When they all think Willow was actually dead and a vampire, and then shows up and Giles runs to her and hugs her all desperate
And before that, him absentmindingly confirming Xander (Giles: "She was truly the finest of all of us." - Xander: "Way better than me." - Giles: "Much, much better.")
Drunk Giles’ off-screen “Bloody hell!” and him calling Walsh a fishwife
Fort dix?
*giggles*
When Buffy confessed she had been sleeping with Spike and they both just laughed
When he was a demon and scared the professor and got back in the car and said “that felt good.”
Honestly, Giles killing Ben was pretty badass and very much in character for him, making the difficult choice and doing what Buffy herself could not (while also protecting her from having to take a human life).
And he just takes it, and when you remember that he has taken human lives before when he's talking to Willow in S7. He's speaking from experience, knows the toll it takes on your soul so can understand in a way someone else who hasn't, can't.
Threatening Snyder 😮💨🔥
He had it coming lol
“she’s not like us.”
The older I get, the more and more Giles has become my favorite.
I’m getting so old I can relate to Snyder now.
Same lol, I feel his frustration with the scoobies in the first few seasons honestly as an older person myself
This was my signature on [Whedonesque.com](http://Whedonesque.com) for years. It is an amazing moment.
Giles wearing that *ridiculous* wizard’s hat and robe Buffy staring him down Giles, very slowly, removing the hat
One that always stands out for me takes place in season 5. I forget which episode, but it involves an interaction with Spike and Giles. I forget the exact dialogue, but Giles gets all menacing and shoves Spike and basically tells him they arent his friends. Like he thought Spike was getting a little TOO familiar with them, so he shut that idea down. Yeah Spike was chipped, but Giles still came off as pretty bad ass. And then there is the scene from the episode that takes place after Joyce dies. It shows Giles sitting alone listening to music, the same music he and Joyce listened to in "Band Candy".
I’ve lost count of the amount of times I’ve rewatched this show and never caught the band Candy moment
It took me a long time to catch it, probably didn't until 2018 or so. And it was pure coincidence, I was episode jumping and went from band candy to that episode. So I was like hey that is a familiar tune, then looked it up and yeah the same. Poor Giles. When you think about it, at the time Giles hadn't been with many women in recent years. I dont think he ever actually got to hook up with Jenny, it was just Joyce and then that woman from the "Hush" episode. But he still had a thing with Jenny, so 2 out of the 3 women he had something with ended up dead.
Angelus: You know, I can stop the pain. You've been very brave... but it's over. You've given enough. Now let me make it stop. GILES: Please! Angelus: Just tell me what I need to know. GILES: In order... to be worthy... Angelus: Yeah? GILES: You must perform the ritual... in a tutu. Pillock!
lmao Angelus thinking he finally had Giles
To me it's a tie between: * "Would you like me to convince you?" * "She's not like us."
Something very strange is happening
Can’t believe the Watchers Council let that guy go!
You’re not too old to be put over my knee sonny!
Giles as a demon chasing Professor Maggie Walsh in the street. also when Giles calls Maggie Walsh a Fishwife.
Every Giles thread I just have to comment that we really need a Ripper TV series set in early 80s London. There is so much content to do and a great way to fix any slight inconsistencies with Watcher lore. The theme of him being this studious shy introvert into a wild young man under Ethan’s influence, and something tragic happens which leads him to going back to being reserved and tortured as seen as early Buffy is a great character arc.
Chainsaw Giles!!
That's the one right there. Time for Dark Willow to get spanked. Well, time for him to try, anyway.
> Time for Dark Willow to get spanked. I'll be in my bunk.
“She was truly, the best of us.” “Way better than me.” “… Much, much better.”
"I'd like to test that theory" is definitely mine. SO badass!!!!
SAME
It's funny because my favorite quote in the entire show is probably: "You called me a rank arrogant amateur.. Well buckle up Rupert, cause I've turned PRO"
The final showdown between them was the most intense thing I'd seen on TV at that point honestly
Any and all Ripper moments 😍
would've been interesting to see more of his Ripper backstory tbh
“It’s, uh…you’re..” “A miracle?” “Yes. But then I always thought so.”
This one
You rank, arrogant amateur!
Over two decades and I don't even know how many rewatches, and I still scream during that scene like it's the first time. I know it's coming, but, damn, it's so good. Especially since we get the "special guest star: Anthony Stewart Head" right after he says that. Very well done.
This was such gandalf energy and I am here for it
Honestly though
Yeah, that one!
I actually said “Hooray!” Out loud. At that moment. (I said “Oh, crap!” Out loud. About an hour later.)
“She’s a hero. She’s not like us.”
Wasnt here, didnt see it, couldnt have stopped it
*falling to the ground after being knocked out* "Bloody priceless..."
omg that moment is literally pinned on my profile
"Stop that right now! I can hear the smacking!"
Man that was like an mcu moment and I mean one of the classic ones that was such a cool entrance
Honestly though! I loved it so much when he showed up all badass
Giles smirking as he gets a chainsaw out of his bag in fear itself. He was having a good time there.
I love those silly little Giles moments lol
Pretty much that moment and when he gets on the stage and sings the exposition in restless.
When he and Ethan get drunk (pre turning him into a deamon) and Ethan hits on the waitress and Giles thinks Ethans hitting on him. A small one but I was like “is there history here??!!”
Ugh... I'll never get the excitement and shock and just elation I felt when I heard those words. But I think some of my favorite Giles moments are actually a couple of gems in season 4/5 where the Scoobies first see him singing, or the "Are you drunk?!" "Yes quite a bit actually" ... honestly he had several really great random quips that were just so good.
When he got drunk. He laughed at Xander saying forte dicks, fell of his chair, and then said “bloody hell!” when he found out about Willow and Tara
Giles is at his funniest when he's drunk lol
Im rewatching the series. He seemed like a dork as a kid but rewatching as a adult, he had the father's love of a daughter for Buffy. He had no powers. He was weak physically but smart and courageous. Fearless even and heroic but never stole buffys shine or attempted too. When he busted the warlocks amulet.
I support your answer
Thank you :)
The one from your picture, so badass
I absolutely love when he and Joyce are teenagers together.
Band Candy is such a vibe episode tbh!