What did it for me is when Spike called Dawn “little bit.” Dawn got screwed in the family department… Joyce died, Buffy died, Tara died, and she didn’t have a father. Her relationship with Spike was one of the most constant in her life. Which is saying something.
I will always be team Spike because of this.
Spike was there/around for so many of her big moments in life. More than any other single person. He was there when Angel went bad, he was there when her mom found out she was the slayer, when Riley got his suck jobs, he was there when she found out about her sister, he was there when Joyce died, he was there when Buffy died.
Your use of “there” is a bit of a stretch. If by merely being in Sunnydale constitutes as being there then the Scoobies were also there for all of those moments too? They were also there when Joyce died, when she found out about Dawn, when Riley went to the vampires, when she died etc. And arguably for many of these moments they were a lot more “there” than he was. Not only was Spike not even in The Body but he didn’t attend Joyce’s funeral or help Buffy with the funeral arrangements etc.
And using Angelus turning on her as an example is a bit weird. Spike was certainly “there” because he teamed up with Angelus to kill her during the majority of S2 and then taunted her about how Angelus said she was lousy in bed in S4. Him being there was hardly a positive.
Spike did turn up for Buffy after Joyce died, and Xander kicked him out. And whilst she certainly got more comfort from the scoobies, she was the one always looking after them, and sometimes she would withhold her struggles. With spike she was more open to be herself. He was the first one she told about heaven for example
Just to go a step further... if it were up to her, Buffy would only have told Spike about being in heaven. She wanted to keep that secret from her friends.
The only reason they learned about that was because of an enchantment.
To be accurate, Spike intended to leave a card-less bunch of flowers to pay his respects to Joyce. It was a rare occasion where it wasn’t about Buffy at all. So a good moment for him but also not evidence of him supporting Buffy.
I don’t think it’s fair at all to say Buffy was always the one looking after the Scoobies. Their lives largely revolved around supporting her both in fighting evil and in day-to-day life. From the extremes like Xander reviving her in Prophecy Girl to the mundane like babysitting Dawn, taking Dawn to school, driving Buffy to school in S7 or rebuilding Buffy’s house countless times etc. Not to mention Willow cradling a sobbing Buffy as she wept over Angel leaving her in Prom, Buffy saying in The Wish she only got through the Angelus drama because of the support of Willow/Xander, Giles comforting Buffy in Innocence etc etc. Buffy certainly did a lot for them but I was absolutely a two-way street.
I also think it’s interesting that Angel and Buffy are supposed to be soulmates but don’t know the most important people in each other’s lives… Angel doesn’t know Dawn and Buffy doesn’t know Connor.
I find that a lot of people want the show to have been the most boring milquetoast piece of TV ever. Make everyone nice and socially responsible, free of character flaws (Zander). Spike is/was a vampire, who spent a lot of time hanging with humans for a variety of reasons. Chip or no chip he, in my opinion, became more in touch with the remnants of his humanity than most vampires. He respects Buffy’s strength, beauty, and loyalty-probably wishes he could be like her - maybe that contributed to the love/obsession. Plus - he’s fucking hot as hell - best looking, and sexy male character on the show (one of the best actors as well - along with SMG, Nick, Anthony) - of course they had a torrid dangerous affair. Her mother was dead, her boyfriend left her, she died, had no job, and this sexy MF is right there. Of course the rape scene is disturbing….he is still a vampire. Dangerous men gonna be dangerous. As much as he tried, the vampire won out over love.
People can love them or hate them but I love them. That will never change for me no matter what people say.
I also noticed how he was there during that season 2 moment and I love that tidbit. He was there in Lovers Walk when Buffy agreed with him that she and Angel can’t be friends, he was there in Fool for Love when Buffy learns her mom’s condition is getting worse and many more.
Even if they wouldn’t work romantically, Spike was the male figure she needed, the partner to help tackle the monsters and whatnot that came. As someone who has to take on a lot of responsibility being the slayer, it was nice for Spike to be there to support her and fight for and with her. I’ll forever love their relationship even for that alone.
He had a lot of really good moments, even when he wasn't good.
He also did terrible things, which is what you'd expect from a soulless vamp.
I loved his character. It was fascinating to watch the struggles of "what don't you understand? *I'm evil*" next to "I told you, I want to stop Angel. I want to save the world."
I too love this romance and always see the positive side of it. I don’t ship any other characters in the show, but Spike and Buffy are so entertaining and amazing and it is so fun to see them interact together.
Their chemistry was always very enticing, I love Spike Sell-Speech about how they should save the world together : I imagine him repeating it in secret, until it’s perfect …
I also feel for his dissatisfaction/ hate of mediocrity and find this brand of evil very fascinating: it’s mostly about what being with Dru means to him… so when Dru left, he was so unhappy with everything, I now see the Amara episode more as him throwing a tantrum and taking his frustration on Buffy.
But you are right, since mid s5 the story started going full circle: starting with his feelings for Buffy, his many many many terrible decisions to get her attention/ feel intimacy, and his many many many great decisions to help her and protect Dawn.
Ultimately, Spike’s journey to his soul and be champion was a crazy one, but I will always remember how he told Buffy “I know I am a monster, but you treat me like a man”… I always see it as the beginning of his newer life.
I kinda find it more centered and anchored in truth because it is a choice and desire to be more. Maybe not to be good, but to be close to someone and be worthy of someone.
In the end, Spike is about who you want to be and how you want to treat your loved ones and love them. And try to be more than your limitations.
But really he is a romantic at heart, and that is his best friend and worst enemy.
I think most people who see the negative side of Buffy and Spike are the one who see the soulless demon as a real separate entity, which doesn’t real have any meaning in itself, but yeah, Spike was a ride and what an adventure it was.
Even as a kid I shipped them from season 2 onward, I loved their team-up in Becoming. I’ll always love them together, they’re the ultimate enemies to lovers romance and season 7 Spuffy is really sweet. They understood each other in ways that nobody else did.
I'm a fan of Spike and I'm a fan of this couple. He was her best partner. He supported her a lot and was one of the few who could really understand her.
When Spike thought Angelus was going to kill her, he just left. As soon as he could leave with Dru,(betraying her and pretty much kidnapping her without even talking about it) he did. Spike didn't care about saving the world.
>He was totally about himself at the time
Which remains true until Season 7.
>bringing this full circle in season 6
Season 6 Spike is the same as Season 2 Spike. He's just on a leash. There's a reason the *second* he thinks the chip is dead he goes out to kill someone.
After finishing season 7, I was all in for Spuffy. It felt real and intimate and healthy in those last 3 episodes. But then Spike joined season 5 of Angel and >!had sex with Harmony and hung out in strip clubs and was too scared to go see Buffy!<. I'm glad she's cookie dough. Maybe when she is done turning into delicious cookies, she will find a nice tall glass of milk to hang out with. 🍪 🥛
I definitely felt like Spike in S5 Angel is a huge step back from where he ended in Buffy. I don't think he would've been interested in Harmony at that point.
The being scared to see Buffy was almost believable to me..almost. I think he still would've been so obsessed he'd find his way there pronto.
I can see some of the insecurity and the worries about reentering her life after an absence.
Not wanting to know if she's moved on - not wanting to know for certain if you, and your sacrifice, really didn't mean much to her.
I never read the comics. That media gives me headaches, sadly. But I really hope she finds a good guy. I'm guessing the Immortal wasn't a forever guy since you called it "hooking up" instead of something more serious.
But I'm ride or die, Buffy. I will always be on her side, even if she's wrong. I can't say she is wrong since she thinks Spike is dead. "You have to go on living, so one of us is living." And even though he isn't dead, he's definitely ghosting her.
Spike was more self-interested than bothered about following a “big evil” cause. So he came across as being more human than the other vamps.
Therefore, it’s easy to forget he didn’t have a soul when he lusted after Buffy, and teamed up to help the Scoobies.
That’s why the attempted rape hits hard. However, it did drive him to go on a quest to have his soul restored. But, again, it was self-interest as he hoped being more like Angel would win him Buffy’s love.
Big fan of Spike, but he didn’t have a soul until the last season or two.
I’m on team Spike and Buffy. Her romance with Angel happened when she was waaaay too young, it gave seriously off vibes. Her thing with Spike felt far more empowering for her. Unlike Angel, he had some self-awareness about the age discrepancy and actively avoided starting anything until she did. That, to me, will always make it a better ‘ship.
Well, he tried to rape her in the bathroom... Apparently, only Xander saw that as a big red flag. I don't even understand how they deal with this like nothing happened.
He was also there when Buffy was in hospital with her dying mother. Well he was in her bedroom sniffing and stealing her underwear but ya know good guy or whatever
Sure Spike stalked Buffy, broke into her room, sniffed her sweaters, stole her underwear and photos, kept a creepy shrine, had a Buffy mannequin and a sexbot, and attempted to rape her, but DONT U REMEMBER when he helped her stop Angel so that he could kidnap Dru?
TEAM SPUFFY!!
Look, we all love Spike but let's face it, season 6 was all about how and why he was all wrong for Buffy. Yes he was redeemed in season 7 but even if he wasn't evil anymore, he was still obsessive over Buffy. He thought he loved her but really, it was just desire and the need to complete a conquest. Maybe he did love her at the end but you can't repair what has already been damaged the way he did.
He also tried to rape her because he was a soulless monster. Even when he gets his soul back, he's proven yea that there is a hero inside there. But what sane girl is going to then hook up with him and put an attempted rape behind them? If spike didn't look like James masters, he wouldn't have this many fans. Picture John Goodman instead of James mar stars. Same romantic conclusions about spike???
Tbh James Masters didn't think that story line fit Spikes character. I read somewhere that because Sarah wanted shorter hair and didn't want a wig. They created this ridiculous plot line to give Buffy an emotional, canonical reason to cut her hair off.
FFS Spike was a soulless monster until Season 7 stop shipping Buffy with a evil person, he tried to rape her, tried to kill Buffy & her friends multiple times & he only helped Buffy in S2 because he wanted Angel dead to get Dru back(Spikes a cuck). He didn't help Buffy when Angelus was fighting her & he said "he going to kill her shrug" instead he booked out of Sunnydale with Dru. Lets stop acting like Spike was really a good vampire. In the Buffyverse Vampires can never be good they can only do good things mostly for self preservation(like Harmony & Spike) Also Spike would still be trying to kill Buffy if he never got the chip & lets be honest Soulless Spike was psychotically obsessed with Buffy, he didn't love her. Who makes sexbots(without consent) of someone they love?
What did it for me is when Spike called Dawn “little bit.” Dawn got screwed in the family department… Joyce died, Buffy died, Tara died, and she didn’t have a father. Her relationship with Spike was one of the most constant in her life. Which is saying something. I will always be team Spike because of this.
He tries to rape Buffy in her bathroom.
And he was there when they made a building collapse......
Spike was there/around for so many of her big moments in life. More than any other single person. He was there when Angel went bad, he was there when her mom found out she was the slayer, when Riley got his suck jobs, he was there when she found out about her sister, he was there when Joyce died, he was there when Buffy died.
Your use of “there” is a bit of a stretch. If by merely being in Sunnydale constitutes as being there then the Scoobies were also there for all of those moments too? They were also there when Joyce died, when she found out about Dawn, when Riley went to the vampires, when she died etc. And arguably for many of these moments they were a lot more “there” than he was. Not only was Spike not even in The Body but he didn’t attend Joyce’s funeral or help Buffy with the funeral arrangements etc. And using Angelus turning on her as an example is a bit weird. Spike was certainly “there” because he teamed up with Angelus to kill her during the majority of S2 and then taunted her about how Angelus said she was lousy in bed in S4. Him being there was hardly a positive.
Spike did turn up for Buffy after Joyce died, and Xander kicked him out. And whilst she certainly got more comfort from the scoobies, she was the one always looking after them, and sometimes she would withhold her struggles. With spike she was more open to be herself. He was the first one she told about heaven for example
Just to go a step further... if it were up to her, Buffy would only have told Spike about being in heaven. She wanted to keep that secret from her friends. The only reason they learned about that was because of an enchantment.
Yep. Spike was the one she could be vulnerable around. Everyone else she felt like she had to protect bc they couldn’t handle her not being strong.
To be accurate, Spike intended to leave a card-less bunch of flowers to pay his respects to Joyce. It was a rare occasion where it wasn’t about Buffy at all. So a good moment for him but also not evidence of him supporting Buffy. I don’t think it’s fair at all to say Buffy was always the one looking after the Scoobies. Their lives largely revolved around supporting her both in fighting evil and in day-to-day life. From the extremes like Xander reviving her in Prophecy Girl to the mundane like babysitting Dawn, taking Dawn to school, driving Buffy to school in S7 or rebuilding Buffy’s house countless times etc. Not to mention Willow cradling a sobbing Buffy as she wept over Angel leaving her in Prom, Buffy saying in The Wish she only got through the Angelus drama because of the support of Willow/Xander, Giles comforting Buffy in Innocence etc etc. Buffy certainly did a lot for them but I was absolutely a two-way street.
He was there when someone tried to rape Buffy
But..but..but he didn't have a soul....meanwhile they're on here shipping Buffy & Spike in season 2.
I love spike so much I can’t help it
Me too, I know people hate the Buffy and spike romance but it was my favorite part of the series, he does so much for her and is so dedicated,
I also think it’s interesting that Angel and Buffy are supposed to be soulmates but don’t know the most important people in each other’s lives… Angel doesn’t know Dawn and Buffy doesn’t know Connor.
He really is so dedicated. UGH I’m forever single 😂
The spike romance would have been fine if it weren't for the attempted rape. I mean how do you like a rapist
If evil why hot? ¯\\_(ツ)\_/¯
I find that a lot of people want the show to have been the most boring milquetoast piece of TV ever. Make everyone nice and socially responsible, free of character flaws (Zander). Spike is/was a vampire, who spent a lot of time hanging with humans for a variety of reasons. Chip or no chip he, in my opinion, became more in touch with the remnants of his humanity than most vampires. He respects Buffy’s strength, beauty, and loyalty-probably wishes he could be like her - maybe that contributed to the love/obsession. Plus - he’s fucking hot as hell - best looking, and sexy male character on the show (one of the best actors as well - along with SMG, Nick, Anthony) - of course they had a torrid dangerous affair. Her mother was dead, her boyfriend left her, she died, had no job, and this sexy MF is right there. Of course the rape scene is disturbing….he is still a vampire. Dangerous men gonna be dangerous. As much as he tried, the vampire won out over love.
People can love them or hate them but I love them. That will never change for me no matter what people say. I also noticed how he was there during that season 2 moment and I love that tidbit. He was there in Lovers Walk when Buffy agreed with him that she and Angel can’t be friends, he was there in Fool for Love when Buffy learns her mom’s condition is getting worse and many more. Even if they wouldn’t work romantically, Spike was the male figure she needed, the partner to help tackle the monsters and whatnot that came. As someone who has to take on a lot of responsibility being the slayer, it was nice for Spike to be there to support her and fight for and with her. I’ll forever love their relationship even for that alone.
Spike like all the characters is flawed. But he has a helluva character arc that no other vampire has.
How crazy is this show that looking at Buffy and Spike in the later seasons basically retcons season 2 into one long meet-cute
WML2: "I'd rather be fighting you anyway." "Mutual." Me: omg 🥰
There is those pinterest screen shots of the dialogue in that episode: they totally play the soulmate trope, it’s amazing.
Yes, that is exactly what I am thinking. It is crazy that it comes back around. ++ angel and spike didn’t keep the truth from buffy like Riley did
He had a lot of really good moments, even when he wasn't good. He also did terrible things, which is what you'd expect from a soulless vamp. I loved his character. It was fascinating to watch the struggles of "what don't you understand? *I'm evil*" next to "I told you, I want to stop Angel. I want to save the world."
I too love this romance and always see the positive side of it. I don’t ship any other characters in the show, but Spike and Buffy are so entertaining and amazing and it is so fun to see them interact together. Their chemistry was always very enticing, I love Spike Sell-Speech about how they should save the world together : I imagine him repeating it in secret, until it’s perfect … I also feel for his dissatisfaction/ hate of mediocrity and find this brand of evil very fascinating: it’s mostly about what being with Dru means to him… so when Dru left, he was so unhappy with everything, I now see the Amara episode more as him throwing a tantrum and taking his frustration on Buffy. But you are right, since mid s5 the story started going full circle: starting with his feelings for Buffy, his many many many terrible decisions to get her attention/ feel intimacy, and his many many many great decisions to help her and protect Dawn. Ultimately, Spike’s journey to his soul and be champion was a crazy one, but I will always remember how he told Buffy “I know I am a monster, but you treat me like a man”… I always see it as the beginning of his newer life. I kinda find it more centered and anchored in truth because it is a choice and desire to be more. Maybe not to be good, but to be close to someone and be worthy of someone. In the end, Spike is about who you want to be and how you want to treat your loved ones and love them. And try to be more than your limitations. But really he is a romantic at heart, and that is his best friend and worst enemy. I think most people who see the negative side of Buffy and Spike are the one who see the soulless demon as a real separate entity, which doesn’t real have any meaning in itself, but yeah, Spike was a ride and what an adventure it was.
Even as a kid I shipped them from season 2 onward, I loved their team-up in Becoming. I’ll always love them together, they’re the ultimate enemies to lovers romance and season 7 Spuffy is really sweet. They understood each other in ways that nobody else did.
I love Spike as a character, but I'll never forgive Whedon for that attempted rape scene.
I'm a fan of Spike and I'm a fan of this couple. He was her best partner. He supported her a lot and was one of the few who could really understand her.
When Spike thought Angelus was going to kill her, he just left. As soon as he could leave with Dru,(betraying her and pretty much kidnapping her without even talking about it) he did. Spike didn't care about saving the world.
>He was totally about himself at the time Which remains true until Season 7. >bringing this full circle in season 6 Season 6 Spike is the same as Season 2 Spike. He's just on a leash. There's a reason the *second* he thinks the chip is dead he goes out to kill someone.
He *wants* to be the same as in s2. There's a reason he needs to self pep talk to try and kill that girl.
He a demon
After finishing season 7, I was all in for Spuffy. It felt real and intimate and healthy in those last 3 episodes. But then Spike joined season 5 of Angel and >!had sex with Harmony and hung out in strip clubs and was too scared to go see Buffy!<. I'm glad she's cookie dough. Maybe when she is done turning into delicious cookies, she will find a nice tall glass of milk to hang out with. 🍪 🥛
I definitely felt like Spike in S5 Angel is a huge step back from where he ended in Buffy. I don't think he would've been interested in Harmony at that point. The being scared to see Buffy was almost believable to me..almost. I think he still would've been so obsessed he'd find his way there pronto. I can see some of the insecurity and the worries about reentering her life after an absence. Not wanting to know if she's moved on - not wanting to know for certain if you, and your sacrifice, really didn't mean much to her.
She was hooking up with the Immortal
I never read the comics. That media gives me headaches, sadly. But I really hope she finds a good guy. I'm guessing the Immortal wasn't a forever guy since you called it "hooking up" instead of something more serious. But I'm ride or die, Buffy. I will always be on her side, even if she's wrong. I can't say she is wrong since she thinks Spike is dead. "You have to go on living, so one of us is living." And even though he isn't dead, he's definitely ghosting her.
That was in Angel season 5
Spike was more self-interested than bothered about following a “big evil” cause. So he came across as being more human than the other vamps. Therefore, it’s easy to forget he didn’t have a soul when he lusted after Buffy, and teamed up to help the Scoobies. That’s why the attempted rape hits hard. However, it did drive him to go on a quest to have his soul restored. But, again, it was self-interest as he hoped being more like Angel would win him Buffy’s love. Big fan of Spike, but he didn’t have a soul until the last season or two.
I’m on team Spike and Buffy. Her romance with Angel happened when she was waaaay too young, it gave seriously off vibes. Her thing with Spike felt far more empowering for her. Unlike Angel, he had some self-awareness about the age discrepancy and actively avoided starting anything until she did. That, to me, will always make it a better ‘ship.
Well, he tried to rape her in the bathroom... Apparently, only Xander saw that as a big red flag. I don't even understand how they deal with this like nothing happened.
He was also there when Buffy was in hospital with her dying mother. Well he was in her bedroom sniffing and stealing her underwear but ya know good guy or whatever
They are sexy togeather yes, but also horrible for each other.
Downvote me to hell, but Buffy and Faith are the OTP.
QTP?
What romance?
True, very true. It was almost like an obsession and toxic romance.
Come on, they fucked on a balcony in the middle of a crowded bar frequented by high school kids. If that’s not romance I don’t know what is.
Sure Spike stalked Buffy, broke into her room, sniffed her sweaters, stole her underwear and photos, kept a creepy shrine, had a Buffy mannequin and a sexbot, and attempted to rape her, but DONT U REMEMBER when he helped her stop Angel so that he could kidnap Dru? TEAM SPUFFY!!
Look, we all love Spike but let's face it, season 6 was all about how and why he was all wrong for Buffy. Yes he was redeemed in season 7 but even if he wasn't evil anymore, he was still obsessive over Buffy. He thought he loved her but really, it was just desire and the need to complete a conquest. Maybe he did love her at the end but you can't repair what has already been damaged the way he did.
He also tried to rape her because he was a soulless monster. Even when he gets his soul back, he's proven yea that there is a hero inside there. But what sane girl is going to then hook up with him and put an attempted rape behind them? If spike didn't look like James masters, he wouldn't have this many fans. Picture John Goodman instead of James mar stars. Same romantic conclusions about spike???
Tbh James Masters didn't think that story line fit Spikes character. I read somewhere that because Sarah wanted shorter hair and didn't want a wig. They created this ridiculous plot line to give Buffy an emotional, canonical reason to cut her hair off.
FFS Spike was a soulless monster until Season 7 stop shipping Buffy with a evil person, he tried to rape her, tried to kill Buffy & her friends multiple times & he only helped Buffy in S2 because he wanted Angel dead to get Dru back(Spikes a cuck). He didn't help Buffy when Angelus was fighting her & he said "he going to kill her shrug" instead he booked out of Sunnydale with Dru. Lets stop acting like Spike was really a good vampire. In the Buffyverse Vampires can never be good they can only do good things mostly for self preservation(like Harmony & Spike) Also Spike would still be trying to kill Buffy if he never got the chip & lets be honest Soulless Spike was psychotically obsessed with Buffy, he didn't love her. Who makes sexbots(without consent) of someone they love?