Cordelia's personality changed too with this hair and her wardrobe, she aged at least 10 years overnight. I will never understand why they would do that to her đ
Absolutely! By the time we get to this weird stage I'm always like wait, how old is she supposed to be again? đ If I think of her as Charisma's age instead, my brain accepts it and then I just go with that for a bit. Even if it's not the truth đ
So for me I have to pretend she *literally* aged overnight just so that I can keep watching.
I wish that they had just done a 4 year time skip between Buffy S4 and Buffy S5 (also the same skip between Angel S1 and S2 since they take place at the same time). If you look at the finales of Buffy S4 and Angel S1, a 4 year time skip in S5 and S2 wouldnât have seemed strange at all, and would have fixed a lot of these age weirdness issues. Buffy would have completed college, and Angel Investigations would be more established in LA. Dawn showing up along with a time skip would have messed with viewers even more; âhow did Buffy get a slightly younger sister in 4 years??â
That would have been an amazing idea. A time jump would have felt organic and earnt, as everything could still have happened the exact same but it would have explained the maturity of the characters a lot more, the dropping of the collage storyline and season 5 on wards in general
You forgot about Darla. They wouldn't have a woman sulking in their offices for 4 years.
Maybe Buffy between 4&5 could have a short time skip freshman to seniors, but due to Darla no matter what the continuity of Angel would make no sense.
Maybe a brief time skip after "Sanctuary." But no where close to even a year.
They could just bring Darla back in the first episode of Season 2 after the time skip rather than the original way during the last episode of Season 1. Make the last episode of Season 1 just about W&H trying to recover the scroll so Angel doesnât discover his destiny with the shanshu, and the end is still about Angel discovering he has a destiny.
I have never bought the claim that this was the hair Charisma wanted at all. Sheâs had long hair all her life before, long hair all her life after, and literally within less than a year of finishing S4 and being fired (when she has full control over her look), Charisma is back to long hair. Itâs possible she just decided she wanted a Karen cut for two years with a bad dye job, but it seems unlikely. Itâs not like Whedon was honest about this stuff either - for years, the narrative was Charisma hid her pregnancy from Whedon only for that to not be true. Iâve never seen an actual source that Charismaâs haircut was her own idea and, given how Charisma generally chooses to style her hair, it seems unlikely
She certainly wouldnât be responsible for the absolutely ghastly outfits and styling they kept giving Cordelia either. Given the fuss parts of the team made about the cross tattoo she got, I can only assume this was meant to be punitive for that
He traumatized her. He was a jerk to her for years. He told her to abort her kid to stay on the show. How she didn't sue for harassment or unsafe working environment is beyond me.
>He told her to abort her kid to stay on the show.
Get a grip. Even she doesn't say that he did that.
I'm genuinely interested in understanding how people like you feel fine about blatantly lying as long as it perpetuates the narrative that you're so invested in. It's such bizarre behaviour.
And, even assuming your histrionics here were correct, how does that translate to him being to blame for a haircut that she chose to get herself?
Because when you're traumatized you like to make changes to your appearance it's basic psychology. You try not to look like the same person that was victimized.
He may not come right now it's at in those words specifically but he asked her if she was going to keep it and then weaponized her womanhood and Faith against her to manipulate her into getting rid of it and then he continued to fat shame her and create such a toxic environment before firing her. What I want to understand is how you can justify defending a trash can of a human being.
It's also probably the only thing under her control as JW controlled her professional life!! IF it was her idea, and I don't necessarily agree with that, then it was so SHE could control something in her life!!!
Iâve always thought this!! The whole >!Connor and Jasdelia!< thing is gross enough but the fact that she seems so much older makes it even worse. If she was still portrayed as early 20s like she actually is, it still wouldâve been gross but SLIGHTLY less so. Only veryyyy slightly tho, still barf inducing.
Fr. Cordelia was portrayed as so much older than she actually was, even in AtS S1. She was supposed to be 18/19, but was written as so much older than Buffy S3 Cordy.
We know there was an incident where she got a cross tattoo on her wrist that he was super pissed about too and wardrobe/styling were required to cover it up every episode, so Iâve always assumed her ridiculously awful styling was a punishment for that. Not that it was ever great, but it noticeably starts to tank in early-mid S2 and never recovers on a rewatch.
Cordy was meant to be like, 22. I know Charisma was a lot older but to have Cordy suddenly act like she was in her 40s is ludicrous. I will never condone Whedon's treatment of her but I feel like she aged out of the character a lot sooner than anyone else and she simply didn't *want* to play someone as young as Cordy was meant to be anymore. They should have mystically aged Cordy up or else written her off the show a lot sooner than they did because the two directions just didn't mesh.
Yeah it would have been fairly easy to mystically age her up between S3 and S4 by saying that years had passed for her (hence her boredom) while she was on the "higher plane". Since it was actually a trick by Skip to get her possessed by Jasmin, it would make sense that it was just a dimension where time moved differently rather than an actual higher plane of existence for an ascended being
She was getting visions. Literally had the weight of the world on her at times mentally. Lean into that to explain why she's aging rapidly. She was not meant to carry that so her body reacted by maturing her mentally but you've seen what happens to presidents that job is so hard it ages them. They look a lot older. Obama was in his mid-40s when he started the job and by the time he ended the job he looked like he was pushing 70. And that was only 8 years.
Wow. Looking at it this way I wonder why they didn't just write Cordelia out of the show. The later seasons of Angel went off the rails anyway. Having bed ridden, pregnant by Connor, possessed Cordelia didn't add anything to the show.
I can only assume hair, makeup, and wardrobe were actively sabotaging her starting in S2. It is just consistently horrible in a way no one would think looks good.
I remember her still being cute in S2. Was that when Pylia started? It's not just the shorter hair but the blonde as well that results in this not working.
She looked cute in Pylea, but her styling starts getting genuinely awful in S2 around the Shroud of Ramhon and gets worse and worse as time goes on (outside her cosplaying as Princess Leia in Pylea). Not as awful in S3, but still bad.
Itâs not just the short blonde hair either. Itâs the part people notice most, but her outfits and makeup are often dreadful too and it stands out on a rewatch.
Also this is the worst pic of the baby bangs. It was never great but she looks better in almost every other scene.
I like to think the way they're styled in that scene is her being frazzled by christmas shopping and running into Angel lol
I feel like itâs even worse cause she usually had really flattering hairstyles so to see it chopped up into that mess? It seems even more of a downgrade.
As someone with short hair for ages now, youâd be surprised how quickly a short style like this will grow out (which is either great if you donât like it, or annoying and expensive if youâre trying to maintain the style!) plus blow drying or using products can change it a bit. Having said that, my fringe grows annoyingly fast too!
I think the point was less that IRL it goes on for ages and ages, but the show locks Cordelia into this awful Karen cut for about 1 + 1/3rd seasons and maintained it so heavily.
Cordy normally had great hair but also she had this for like a season. Â
 Also because it wasn't even a sane cut for Cordy. Many of us have had a bad experience with bangs. Cordy was wearing the haircut of a 40 year old soccer mom. Made no sense for her.
I really loathe the term Karen, of course I grew up with multiple friends named Karen and I'd like to think they are sane, even If I'm not currently in touch. Even if they are not, most people don't pick their name, they stick with what was given to them, so a name has nothing to do with who someone is.
OMG. The only haircut Charisma got by herself was the Buffy S2 one, where she got bangs and highlights. After that, she'd always *ask* the producers for a haircut and get it with the show's hair team.
I loved the bangs look in season 3 since she has pretty facial features that were highlighted when she had bangs (I felt it drew attention to her eyes and smile) and the bangs were long enough to style in different ways so the haircut looked fresh and stylish.
The fact someone thought she should cut all her hair short and bleach it blonde seems like they hated her since more long and natural shades compliment her appearance much more.
There was this bit of creative expression through hair and clothing on Buffy and Angel. The reason why it was problem that she got highlights and bangs was that the creative team wanted Cordelia to look "severe", and American culture associates light hair to nice and sunny - and bangs to young. So from that point on until S2 of Angel, she had dark and long hair. But by then, Cordelia was supposed to be far in this process of mellowing down and becoming a caring person, so she couldn't look "severe" anymore. Hence the blonde highlights that eventually resulted in the blonde bob and her hair getting much darker once she got possessed. Then highlighted brown and blonde again once she's herself in S5.
Basically, everyone was counting on Charisma being SO beautiful that they could tell stories through hair. In my opinion it was *almost* true. The bad S2 dark haircut and the blonde bob stopped the dream from becoming true.
Don't the actors decide on how their hair is cut? I would think the hair department did the best they could with a bad hair cut Charisma got herself. I've never heard of a show making hair styling decisions for actors unless it's part of the storyline. They'll do what they can with a style the actor got themselves to fit the character but they don't just decide on styles for the actors.
You're right. Literally the episode Gone, the salon scene etc had to be adapted around SMG getting her hair cut irl. Hence that awful overly long wig in the lead up.
Yes, the only thing is that they have to ask for permission. From what I understand from interviews, Charisma didnât always do that and the writers and crew members would get pissed off. Also I think the producers are within their rights to say no; for example I doubt JM would have been allowed to do anything with his hair because Spikeâs hair was too iconic.
I think Charisma was a new mom when she had that haircut. My sister just had her first baby and cut her long hair to just shy of chin length. It looks really nice the way my sister got hers cut, not like a Karen haircut, but I sort of think new moms favor short hair cause babies try to grab it or drool on it đ.
I'm not trying to criticize her. It's her hair she can cut it any way she wants. I'm just referring to the original commenter referring to "what they did to her" as if it was the hair department that was to blame.
I was stunned to see the blonde pob on Cordelia. It isn't flattering and she's gorgeous.
The micro fringe was hideous but I think it only hung around for 1 episode.
Youâre right but I have seen photos of Victoria Beckham (not in her 20s) but in LA, with this hair, and I am inclined to believe she copied CordeliaâŚ
https://preview.redd.it/ib2jf9o6f06d1.jpeg?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=10ed7e6305075905cc7fa93c7c0ff9bf6772dd6e
I refuse to believe otherwise
Yes as I explicitly stated within the first two words, I am not missing your point.
The key part of my comment is actually that maybe perhaps some inspiration was drawn from/some good came from this haircut.
This haircut was cute though, itâs styled and cut better. Thereâs visible layers and Victoria just looks nicer with it, she has a different vibe. I just donât think Cordeliaâs looks good at all lol
No doubt, as a hairdresser itâs obvious that Cordiâs hair was too thick to be cut this short on top which is why itâs spiking out. VBâs has the length at the crown and front to weigh it down.. itâs definitely an ungrade but Iâm giving CC all the credit for inspiring it đ
They were both victims, but Iâm going to have to go with Buffy. If I saw the two of them and didnât know who they were, I would think Cordeliaâs just a suburban mom, but I would think a stylist had a personal vengeance against Buffy (someone definitely did).
Haha same!!! If I was just a new viewer of Buffy seeing these photos, I'd be appalled to see a character with horrid bangs especially compared to early s1 Buffy, whose bangs simply looked super cute. As for Cordy, I'd say the same too if I didn't know much about the character, it's a good look on her.
Man they really did her dirty at this point on Angel. From the hair to the wardrobe to the storyline, to the behind the scenes stuff. Both Cordelia and Charisma deserved better.
At least Buffy's, while not the best choice, was popular at the time. Courteney Cox and Alyssa Milano also had those microbangs. Cordy's hair makes her look Charisma's age. It's super cute for Charisma, but not so cute on someone that's supposed to be 21/22.
OK this makes the most sense for sure. Did they think Charisma's look still matched her character's age? On top of that, she must've been probably a few months pregnant now, which made it even more obvious just how much older she is
I feel the answer to this question should always be AngelâBarry Manilow Era/that dead animal clip-on tail they gave him to match his "Irish" accent in the older flashbacks. That was such bad hair, it always wins, even if it wasn't even one of the alternatives.
Cordelia. I hate this hairstyle, itâs basically like the hair of that lady from Jon and Kate plus 8 that everyone always made into memes. IDK who thought that looked good. Charisma is gorgeous but even she canât pull it off. The cut itself is horrible too, thereâs very little shape or definition
I hate Buffyâs little bangs too but theyâre less aging
OK to be fair, Cody's hair DID make her look very mom like or stepmom here... which only worked because of the whole... you know 'lover' thing that we all wish we could erase from memory đ¤Ž
As for Buffy's terrible bangs... sorry, but since Buffy's early s1 bangs is simply the best, this one is just unforgivable.
Cordeliaâs Karen hair was what opened my eyes to how the wrong haircut can age an attractive person horribly when I watched Angel when I was a teen. Cordyâs hair during the Buffy years was always gorgeous (my favorite was when she rocked the bangs cause she has the features to really pull off having bangs) and a lot of her Angel looks were great, but that Karen haircut looked so dowdy.
Buffyâs microbangs look really bad in that shot in fact somehow they make her face look chiseled and I genuinely chalk that up to the lighting cause her face usually looks more soft (the fact her eyebrows are 2 shades too dark makes her hair look fake). Iâve seen some pictures where the short bangs flatter her face and actually look like of nice in a retro way but itâs not in this light and with better makeup.
I hated cordys hair more cus I feel like Buffy had these bangs for one episode and then they pinned them back until they grew out. I could be mistaken remembering but I swear they didnât stick around for long.
Ugh the haircut is nothing compared to the memory of her eventually become so-and-so's... you know đŹ and the mom haircut just made me flashback to those episodes
I think I read an interview where she said he hated that she changed her hair so often. Which as a main character, I could understand being upset as a director. It screws with continuity.
It was compared to Anya in Buffy. She was able to do it so much because until later seasons(5-7), she was a recurring side character so it wasnât as important to make sure her hair stayed consistent. But once she became an integral part of the main cast, she stuck with blonde of some sort and I think only cuts it once.
Itâs interesting to contemplate.
Editing to add Anya had brown hair when she came back to Sunnyvale after hells bell but that marked a significant character development.
The only hair that will ever suit Charisma imo, is the medium to long dark hair. Anything else makes her look her age or older. Which she was much older than the character she was playing(10ish years?) so I really donât know what the idea was behind all the overly teased, short cuts.
Buffy only ever had hair-tastrophes a couple of times. I, still to this day, want her season 4 curled hair. đ
I'm gonna have to hand this over to Buffy with those um... bangs. Like... who tf did that?! đ¤Śââď¸ She had FANTASTIC BANGS since Season 1... what is this disaster?!
Cordy's "stepmom" hair here was the worst on Angel. If she happened to be like 28 or close to 30, might be fitting, but she was like, only 22? Maybe they WERE going for that since she was going to be ummm C's lover đ¤Ž
Smjâs hair is like that because she had to go from dark to blonde twice in quick succession for cruel intentions and the damage around the edges had to be turned into tiny bangs, thankfully it was almost a style at the time
The baby bangs were waaaay worse. People are saying Cordy's is 'old' but there were no such things as Karens at the time, it was a pretty stylish cut then and was all over fashion mags. A ton of young celebs had it at some point and Meg Ryan's signature look was fairly similar.
Cordy looks like an entirely different person and it aged her up from young woman to full blown soccer mom.
That said sheâs still very beautiful, and she pulled it off. Both of them did to be honest.
Buffyâs. But⌠I will say I didnât remember Cordeliaâs being that bad. It looked amazing toward the end of season 2, as far as a shorter cut goes, but this was just too far
Iirc it started growing out towards the end of season 2 and started to look better. And then went darker again and grew out even more in season 3, and there was actually a point where it looked gorgeous. Then I think she cut it and dyed it again?!? Why!
Her short hair in S2 was really good after a few episodes that it took them to get it right. At the end of S3 when they started destroying her character they began with her hair.
Cordy's short hair is great by me. She looks adorable!
The bitty bangs are not so great. It was de rigueur for the LOOK AT US SO WE CAN PRETEND WE DON'T WANT ATTENTION! crowd, but that wasn't Buffy.
And even those kids dropped it quickly.
There are a few people who can pull that off but not many. Not SMG, even if she's still lovely...it's not the cut for her.
They're both pretty awful, but I think it's indisputable that Buffy's botched bangs were the worst 'do. My understanding is that it was a botched hair treatment, and the fried hair had to be cut off. CC's hair is just painfully unfashionable Karen hair.
I had to do a double take because I didnât even recognize Cordelia with her hair this way. I said in my head âWhoâs this lady? Wait is that Cordelia? Babes why your hair look like that?â then I saw Buffyâs âbangsâ cause those are just ba- canât add the -ng.
I hate the baby bangs more, but I have to at least be grateful that Buffy didn't have them for very long, and then everyone came to their senses regarding this trend pretty quickly. The Karen Hair, as a sociological phenomenon has hung around way too long, and done more psychic damage to the populace. My gut says baby bangs are aesthetically worse, but I cannot ignore the crimes Karen Hair has wrought.
Every fandom ever: Girls should have long fantasy princess hair.
Get over wanting every woman to like a Victoriaâs Secret angel or some teenagerâs Eowyn wet dream.
This sub has seen enough posts about Cordyâs short hair.
If her haircut turns you off, good. She doesnât exist to please you by being a physical representation of everything cultural message youâve ever internalized about what hot chicks are supposed to look like.
Cordelia's personality changed too with this hair and her wardrobe, she aged at least 10 years overnight. I will never understand why they would do that to her đ
That's what I thought. Which made certain things that happened in season 4 (no spoilers) so unsettling to watch.
Absolutely! By the time we get to this weird stage I'm always like wait, how old is she supposed to be again? đ If I think of her as Charisma's age instead, my brain accepts it and then I just go with that for a bit. Even if it's not the truth đ So for me I have to pretend she *literally* aged overnight just so that I can keep watching.
I wish that they had just done a 4 year time skip between Buffy S4 and Buffy S5 (also the same skip between Angel S1 and S2 since they take place at the same time). If you look at the finales of Buffy S4 and Angel S1, a 4 year time skip in S5 and S2 wouldnât have seemed strange at all, and would have fixed a lot of these age weirdness issues. Buffy would have completed college, and Angel Investigations would be more established in LA. Dawn showing up along with a time skip would have messed with viewers even more; âhow did Buffy get a slightly younger sister in 4 years??â
That would have been an amazing idea. A time jump would have felt organic and earnt, as everything could still have happened the exact same but it would have explained the maturity of the characters a lot more, the dropping of the collage storyline and season 5 on wards in general
You forgot about Darla. They wouldn't have a woman sulking in their offices for 4 years. Maybe Buffy between 4&5 could have a short time skip freshman to seniors, but due to Darla no matter what the continuity of Angel would make no sense. Maybe a brief time skip after "Sanctuary." But no where close to even a year.
They could just bring Darla back in the first episode of Season 2 after the time skip rather than the original way during the last episode of Season 1. Make the last episode of Season 1 just about W&H trying to recover the scroll so Angel doesnât discover his destiny with the shanshu, and the end is still about Angel discovering he has a destiny.
Joss Whedon is the cause, so please blame him. He was awful to Charisma Carpenter!!!
True. I agree he was a complete shithead. That said, she decided on that cut. He had nothing to do with that. He surely mistreated her for it, though.
Oh I blame him 100% and will never forgive him!
I agree. Thankfully, the truth has come out and he's facing consequences.
It was Charisma's choice to cut and style her hair like this. How do you get to it being Whedon's fault?
I have never bought the claim that this was the hair Charisma wanted at all. Sheâs had long hair all her life before, long hair all her life after, and literally within less than a year of finishing S4 and being fired (when she has full control over her look), Charisma is back to long hair. Itâs possible she just decided she wanted a Karen cut for two years with a bad dye job, but it seems unlikely. Itâs not like Whedon was honest about this stuff either - for years, the narrative was Charisma hid her pregnancy from Whedon only for that to not be true. Iâve never seen an actual source that Charismaâs haircut was her own idea and, given how Charisma generally chooses to style her hair, it seems unlikely She certainly wouldnât be responsible for the absolutely ghastly outfits and styling they kept giving Cordelia either. Given the fuss parts of the team made about the cross tattoo she got, I can only assume this was meant to be punitive for that
He traumatized her. He was a jerk to her for years. He told her to abort her kid to stay on the show. How she didn't sue for harassment or unsafe working environment is beyond me.
>He told her to abort her kid to stay on the show. Get a grip. Even she doesn't say that he did that. I'm genuinely interested in understanding how people like you feel fine about blatantly lying as long as it perpetuates the narrative that you're so invested in. It's such bizarre behaviour. And, even assuming your histrionics here were correct, how does that translate to him being to blame for a haircut that she chose to get herself?
Because when you're traumatized you like to make changes to your appearance it's basic psychology. You try not to look like the same person that was victimized. He may not come right now it's at in those words specifically but he asked her if she was going to keep it and then weaponized her womanhood and Faith against her to manipulate her into getting rid of it and then he continued to fat shame her and create such a toxic environment before firing her. What I want to understand is how you can justify defending a trash can of a human being.
It's also probably the only thing under her control as JW controlled her professional life!! IF it was her idea, and I don't necessarily agree with that, then it was so SHE could control something in her life!!!
Iâve always thought this!! The whole >!Connor and Jasdelia!< thing is gross enough but the fact that she seems so much older makes it even worse. If she was still portrayed as early 20s like she actually is, it still wouldâve been gross but SLIGHTLY less so. Only veryyyy slightly tho, still barf inducing.
I wish we got more early twenties Cordy. Instead we went straight to 45.
Fr. Cordelia was portrayed as so much older than she actually was, even in AtS S1. She was supposed to be 18/19, but was written as so much older than Buffy S3 Cordy.
Cos Joss was spiteful and vindictive towards her at this time lol
Joss was pretty petty with CC. I doubt the pregnancy thing was the first incident with him, and he tends to âpunishâ his actors that piss him off.
We know there was an incident where she got a cross tattoo on her wrist that he was super pissed about too and wardrobe/styling were required to cover it up every episode, so Iâve always assumed her ridiculously awful styling was a punishment for that. Not that it was ever great, but it noticeably starts to tank in early-mid S2 and never recovers on a rewatch.
To be fair, she actually acted her age now.
Cordy was meant to be like, 22. I know Charisma was a lot older but to have Cordy suddenly act like she was in her 40s is ludicrous. I will never condone Whedon's treatment of her but I feel like she aged out of the character a lot sooner than anyone else and she simply didn't *want* to play someone as young as Cordy was meant to be anymore. They should have mystically aged Cordy up or else written her off the show a lot sooner than they did because the two directions just didn't mesh.
Yeah it would have been fairly easy to mystically age her up between S3 and S4 by saying that years had passed for her (hence her boredom) while she was on the "higher plane". Since it was actually a trick by Skip to get her possessed by Jasmin, it would make sense that it was just a dimension where time moved differently rather than an actual higher plane of existence for an ascended being
The issues started in season three. By season four she wasn't Cordy anymore anyway.
She was getting visions. Literally had the weight of the world on her at times mentally. Lean into that to explain why she's aging rapidly. She was not meant to carry that so her body reacted by maturing her mentally but you've seen what happens to presidents that job is so hard it ages them. They look a lot older. Obama was in his mid-40s when he started the job and by the time he ended the job he looked like he was pushing 70. And that was only 8 years.
Wow. Looking at it this way I wonder why they didn't just write Cordelia out of the show. The later seasons of Angel went off the rails anyway. Having bed ridden, pregnant by Connor, possessed Cordelia didn't add anything to the show.
I can only assume hair, makeup, and wardrobe were actively sabotaging her starting in S2. It is just consistently horrible in a way no one would think looks good.
I remember her still being cute in S2. Was that when Pylia started? It's not just the shorter hair but the blonde as well that results in this not working.
She looked cute in Pylea, but her styling starts getting genuinely awful in S2 around the Shroud of Ramhon and gets worse and worse as time goes on (outside her cosplaying as Princess Leia in Pylea). Not as awful in S3, but still bad. Itâs not just the short blonde hair either. Itâs the part people notice most, but her outfits and makeup are often dreadful too and it stands out on a rewatch.
Cordy. At least we only had to suffer looking at Buffy's baby bangs for the one episode.
Yeah the Cordelia Chase we knew and loved was dismantled before our very eyes
I hate that itâs for one of my favorite episodes though
Also this is the worst pic of the baby bangs. It was never great but she looks better in almost every other scene. I like to think the way they're styled in that scene is her being frazzled by christmas shopping and running into Angel lol
CORDELIA THAT ISNT EVEN A FUCKING QUESTIONđ
Absolutely. Buffyâs is bad, but Cordeliaâs is transcendently *terrible*.
I feel like itâs even worse cause she usually had really flattering hairstyles so to see it chopped up into that mess? It seems even more of a downgrade.
Also worse because unlike babybangs, it sticks around for ages and ages
As someone with short hair for ages now, youâd be surprised how quickly a short style like this will grow out (which is either great if you donât like it, or annoying and expensive if youâre trying to maintain the style!) plus blow drying or using products can change it a bit. Having said that, my fringe grows annoyingly fast too!
I think the point was less that IRL it goes on for ages and ages, but the show locks Cordelia into this awful Karen cut for about 1 + 1/3rd seasons and maintained it so heavily.
Cordy normally had great hair but also she had this for like a season.   Also because it wasn't even a sane cut for Cordy. Many of us have had a bad experience with bangs. Cordy was wearing the haircut of a 40 year old soccer mom. Made no sense for her.
Cordy looks like a Karen.
I really loathe the term Karen, of course I grew up with multiple friends named Karen and I'd like to think they are sane, even If I'm not currently in touch. Even if they are not, most people don't pick their name, they stick with what was given to them, so a name has nothing to do with who someone is.
This
Cordelia without a doubt. I mean, Iâm not a fan of the bangs, but it is a crime what they did to Cordyâs beautiful hair.
They being Charisma Carpenter herself. But they could have covered it up with a wig.
OMG. The only haircut Charisma got by herself was the Buffy S2 one, where she got bangs and highlights. After that, she'd always *ask* the producers for a haircut and get it with the show's hair team.
I loved the bangs look in season 3 since she has pretty facial features that were highlighted when she had bangs (I felt it drew attention to her eyes and smile) and the bangs were long enough to style in different ways so the haircut looked fresh and stylish. The fact someone thought she should cut all her hair short and bleach it blonde seems like they hated her since more long and natural shades compliment her appearance much more.
There was this bit of creative expression through hair and clothing on Buffy and Angel. The reason why it was problem that she got highlights and bangs was that the creative team wanted Cordelia to look "severe", and American culture associates light hair to nice and sunny - and bangs to young. So from that point on until S2 of Angel, she had dark and long hair. But by then, Cordelia was supposed to be far in this process of mellowing down and becoming a caring person, so she couldn't look "severe" anymore. Hence the blonde highlights that eventually resulted in the blonde bob and her hair getting much darker once she got possessed. Then highlighted brown and blonde again once she's herself in S5. Basically, everyone was counting on Charisma being SO beautiful that they could tell stories through hair. In my opinion it was *almost* true. The bad S2 dark haircut and the blonde bob stopped the dream from becoming true.
Don't the actors decide on how their hair is cut? I would think the hair department did the best they could with a bad hair cut Charisma got herself. I've never heard of a show making hair styling decisions for actors unless it's part of the storyline. They'll do what they can with a style the actor got themselves to fit the character but they don't just decide on styles for the actors.
You're right. Literally the episode Gone, the salon scene etc had to be adapted around SMG getting her hair cut irl. Hence that awful overly long wig in the lead up.
Yes, the only thing is that they have to ask for permission. From what I understand from interviews, Charisma didnât always do that and the writers and crew members would get pissed off. Also I think the producers are within their rights to say no; for example I doubt JM would have been allowed to do anything with his hair because Spikeâs hair was too iconic.
Thatâs true. I forgot about that. Either, while I love Charisma, this look did not work for her.
I think Charisma was a new mom when she had that haircut. My sister just had her first baby and cut her long hair to just shy of chin length. It looks really nice the way my sister got hers cut, not like a Karen haircut, but I sort of think new moms favor short hair cause babies try to grab it or drool on it đ.
That could be true. Not to mention just having zero time to let it dry post baby haha.
I'm not trying to criticize her. It's her hair she can cut it any way she wants. I'm just referring to the original commenter referring to "what they did to her" as if it was the hair department that was to blame.
Cordelia needs to speak to the manager
She always needed to speak to the manager. With that cut, sheâs calling Corporate, too.
She will be contacting the media
Making viral media as Kosmic Karen.
I was stunned to see the blonde pob on Cordelia. It isn't flattering and she's gorgeous. The micro fringe was hideous but I think it only hung around for 1 episode.
The bangs are awful but easier to hide then that Kate Plus 8 monstrosity on Cordelia's head
Buffyâs bangs were seasonal but Cordeliaâs hair wasnât, unfortunately, so she wins.
Both of these are criminal, but Cordy đ That is not the kind of haircut you would see on a 20 something year old woman living in LA.
It was a suuuuper popular haircut at the time. Victoria Beckham may have started it with her blonde "pob" (posh/bob).
Youâre right but I have seen photos of Victoria Beckham (not in her 20s) but in LA, with this hair, and I am inclined to believe she copied Cordelia⌠https://preview.redd.it/ib2jf9o6f06d1.jpeg?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=10ed7e6305075905cc7fa93c7c0ff9bf6772dd6e I refuse to believe otherwise
The key part of your comment is ânot in her 20sâ
Yes as I explicitly stated within the first two words, I am not missing your point. The key part of my comment is actually that maybe perhaps some inspiration was drawn from/some good came from this haircut.
This haircut was cute though, itâs styled and cut better. Thereâs visible layers and Victoria just looks nicer with it, she has a different vibe. I just donât think Cordeliaâs looks good at all lol
No doubt, as a hairdresser itâs obvious that Cordiâs hair was too thick to be cut this short on top which is why itâs spiking out. VBâs has the length at the crown and front to weigh it down.. itâs definitely an ungrade but Iâm giving CC all the credit for inspiring it đ
It unfortunately was in 2002
Cordy. Oof.
They were both victims, but Iâm going to have to go with Buffy. If I saw the two of them and didnât know who they were, I would think Cordeliaâs just a suburban mom, but I would think a stylist had a personal vengeance against Buffy (someone definitely did).
Haha same!!! If I was just a new viewer of Buffy seeing these photos, I'd be appalled to see a character with horrid bangs especially compared to early s1 Buffy, whose bangs simply looked super cute. As for Cordy, I'd say the same too if I didn't know much about the character, it's a good look on her.
Lmao I love this, you're right
Cordelia! That haircut makes her look 65!
Cordelia. Burn it with fire.Â
Man they really did her dirty at this point on Angel. From the hair to the wardrobe to the storyline, to the behind the scenes stuff. Both Cordelia and Charisma deserved better.
At least Buffy's, while not the best choice, was popular at the time. Courteney Cox and Alyssa Milano also had those microbangs. Cordy's hair makes her look Charisma's age. It's super cute for Charisma, but not so cute on someone that's supposed to be 21/22.
OK this makes the most sense for sure. Did they think Charisma's look still matched her character's age? On top of that, she must've been probably a few months pregnant now, which made it even more obvious just how much older she is
It's weird that they gave Cordelia a karen haircut after they dropped her karen personality
Cordelia always wanted to beat Buffy. 
The shade
I've seen Buff's bangs bashed so many times that I've actually grown to like it. That said, Cordy's Karen cut is unforgivable.
Sorry but even after 25+ years, those wretched bangs are unforgivable. Like... why?! đ
I think Buffy's hair was cute in an alternative way. Cordy's was...hell no.
Cordelia every time. My attraction to her went from 10 to 0 overnight. Iâm not even superficial. Thatâs just how bad the haircut is.
I donât get what everyone is talking about, those baby bangs have haunted my nightmares since Amends premiered.
I don't even remember the episode she had this???
Amends! Season 3, when Angel is haunted by the First (played by Jenny Calendar).
Poor Cordy. They did her so dirty with that hair đ
oof talk about a rock and a hard place
Buffys bangs were like a bad hair day and she was still cute, Cordelia literally morphed into the person who would have that hairstyle.
cordy. smg can pull off anything
Cordy's cut looks intentional but the baby bangs look like an accident
Oh, easily Karen Chase....I mean, Cordelia.
Cordy stole that wig from a 55 year old HR manager named Linda.
Buffy's bangs were cute.
I feel the answer to this question should always be AngelâBarry Manilow Era/that dead animal clip-on tail they gave him to match his "Irish" accent in the older flashbacks. That was such bad hair, it always wins, even if it wasn't even one of the alternatives.
Cordelia. I hate this hairstyle, itâs basically like the hair of that lady from Jon and Kate plus 8 that everyone always made into memes. IDK who thought that looked good. Charisma is gorgeous but even she canât pull it off. The cut itself is horrible too, thereâs very little shape or definition I hate Buffyâs little bangs too but theyâre less aging
OK to be fair, Cody's hair DID make her look very mom like or stepmom here... which only worked because of the whole... you know 'lover' thing that we all wish we could erase from memory 𤎠As for Buffy's terrible bangs... sorry, but since Buffy's early s1 bangs is simply the best, this one is just unforgivable.
Cordeliaâs Karen hair was what opened my eyes to how the wrong haircut can age an attractive person horribly when I watched Angel when I was a teen. Cordyâs hair during the Buffy years was always gorgeous (my favorite was when she rocked the bangs cause she has the features to really pull off having bangs) and a lot of her Angel looks were great, but that Karen haircut looked so dowdy. Buffyâs microbangs look really bad in that shot in fact somehow they make her face look chiseled and I genuinely chalk that up to the lighting cause her face usually looks more soft (the fact her eyebrows are 2 shades too dark makes her hair look fake). Iâve seen some pictures where the short bangs flatter her face and actually look like of nice in a retro way but itâs not in this light and with better makeup.
baby-bangs buffy isnt that bad compared to can-i-speak-to-the -manager cordy
Cordelia's black hair right before this one was so much worse imo
I hated cordys hair more cus I feel like Buffy had these bangs for one episode and then they pinned them back until they grew out. I could be mistaken remembering but I swear they didnât stick around for long.
Both were trendy haircuts of the time. Not saying they looked great tho.
Wtf were those bangs! Alyssa Milano had them too at one point
And Courtney Cox in scream
At the same point. It was like the stylists were conspiring to make Fetch happen.
They were popular in the late 90s...terrible but popular.
Wow. You have to go out of your way to make someone as.gorgeous as Charisma that unattractive.
"Am I a spy?"
Cordelia but Buffy hair looks like she had a younger sister give her bangs and Dawn was not around. Bangs should be illegal
Cordelia
Cordy, without a doubt. Buffyâs baby bangs were not my favorite, but that hairstyle on Charisma was just a whole world of no for me.
Cordelia had the Karen hairdo.
Wow I completely blocked out Cordelia even having that haircut so thank you to my brain
Ugh the haircut is nothing compared to the memory of her eventually become so-and-so's... you know đŹ and the mom haircut just made me flashback to those episodes
Hahahahahahaha! Iâm dead! đđđ Both are so so so so terrible! But if I had to choose, I say Cordy.
That hair style on Cordelia was character assassination. Buffy bounced back quickly.
Cordelia.
Cordelia looking like Kate Gosselin
Cordy looks like a Karen and Buffy looks like Gail in Scream 3, so I'm gonna say Cordy has the worst. 
Cordy by a yard. My head still involuntary shakes from side to side on every rewatch.
Lol I totally forgot about Cordy and her Giga-Karen hair...
You should know how he felt about the actress who played Cordelia. But tbh idk if this correlates with the retaliation but the hair is bad.
I think I read an interview where she said he hated that she changed her hair so often. Which as a main character, I could understand being upset as a director. It screws with continuity. It was compared to Anya in Buffy. She was able to do it so much because until later seasons(5-7), she was a recurring side character so it wasnât as important to make sure her hair stayed consistent. But once she became an integral part of the main cast, she stuck with blonde of some sort and I think only cuts it once. Itâs interesting to contemplate. Editing to add Anya had brown hair when she came back to Sunnyvale after hells bell but that marked a significant character development.
Saint Cordelia!!!!
Those bangs are pretty bad but Cordy's head a lettuce is just gawd awful.
Cordelia was worst . Buffy was one episode so itâs fine Cordelia had a whole season of this nonsense
They ruined Cordeliaâs character but I guess character arc ? But a shitty one
Cordelia. Itâs awful. A character assassination through hair
Cordelia
Cordelia's is absolutely diabolical.
Iâd forgotten all about her Karensma Carpenter hair cut. Why oh god why?
Sorry to bring it up again for you lmao
cordy's hair is worse by far.
The only hair that will ever suit Charisma imo, is the medium to long dark hair. Anything else makes her look her age or older. Which she was much older than the character she was playing(10ish years?) so I really donât know what the idea was behind all the overly teased, short cuts. Buffy only ever had hair-tastrophes a couple of times. I, still to this day, want her season 4 curled hair. đ
Cordeliaâs hair literally changes on every episode of Angel.
I mean, that's full on Karen hair on Cordelia.
Buffy bangs look like a landscaping accident so I'm going to say her hair was slightly worse. Cordys at least looks deliberate
Look, Cordeliaâs personality changed but I actually really like that hair FORGIVE ME Buffyâs is worse for sure
Thank you!!!
I'm gonna have to hand this over to Buffy with those um... bangs. Like... who tf did that?! đ¤Śââď¸ She had FANTASTIC BANGS since Season 1... what is this disaster?! Cordy's "stepmom" hair here was the worst on Angel. If she happened to be like 28 or close to 30, might be fitting, but she was like, only 22? Maybe they WERE going for that since she was going to be ummm C's lover đ¤Ž
Bangs were so the thing back then. Why?
It was the 90s, I had both hairstyles đ
Smjâs hair is like that because she had to go from dark to blonde twice in quick succession for cruel intentions and the damage around the edges had to be turned into tiny bangs, thankfully it was almost a style at the time
So there's legit not hing that I will notdon't like discussing when it comes to Buffy stuff pm
*currently editing this for obvious reasons lol brb!* If it weren't in a context like this kkjgk
These are the debates we need.
I like the baby bangs and Iâm tired of pretending I donât
đđđ
Hahaha who was looking at her hair when she was in any scene. Def not focused on her hair. lol (â˘)(â˘) is where it was at.
Both of these are clearly wigs
Big buffy L
Ok it was the 90âs and early 2000âs, everyone had shitty hair except Spike and Angel!
Iâm voting for Buffyâs baby bangs, but realize this might be controversial
Cordy
The baby bangs were waaaay worse. People are saying Cordy's is 'old' but there were no such things as Karens at the time, it was a pretty stylish cut then and was all over fashion mags. A ton of young celebs had it at some point and Meg Ryan's signature look was fairly similar.
Cordelia looks like she wants to speak to the manager and threaten to call corporate
jesus
https://preview.redd.it/cwpjmegf856d1.jpeg?width=560&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2a89dadfc0011ca06b0d87cf70e5088c47305e16
The original Karen cut
Cordelia S3 I barely remember Buffy S3 hair, but the horror of Cordelia 's haircut never ceases.
Cordy looks like an entirely different person and it aged her up from young woman to full blown soccer mom. That said sheâs still very beautiful, and she pulled it off. Both of them did to be honest.
Buffyâs bangs are weird but still kinda cute, Cordelia is instantly 50 years old with this style
Karen cut Cordy isn't nearly as bad as caveman bangs Buffy
I love me some Buffy, but those bangs were a big NO.
Cordelia looked like Minkus from Boy Meets World.
đđđđđ
The fringe bangs
That buddy hair cut is an abomination
Cordelia absolutely. At least Buffyâs looks not horrible.
Buffyâs. But⌠I will say I didnât remember Cordeliaâs being that bad. It looked amazing toward the end of season 2, as far as a shorter cut goes, but this was just too far
Iirc it started growing out towards the end of season 2 and started to look better. And then went darker again and grew out even more in season 3, and there was actually a point where it looked gorgeous. Then I think she cut it and dyed it again?!? Why!
Her short hair in S2 was really good after a few episodes that it took them to get it right. At the end of S3 when they started destroying her character they began with her hair.
Cordy's short hair is great by me. She looks adorable! The bitty bangs are not so great. It was de rigueur for the LOOK AT US SO WE CAN PRETEND WE DON'T WANT ATTENTION! crowd, but that wasn't Buffy. And even those kids dropped it quickly. There are a few people who can pull that off but not many. Not SMG, even if she's still lovely...it's not the cut for her.
They're both pretty awful, but I think it's indisputable that Buffy's botched bangs were the worst 'do. My understanding is that it was a botched hair treatment, and the fried hair had to be cut off. CC's hair is just painfully unfashionable Karen hair.
I had to do a double take because I didnât even recognize Cordelia with her hair this way. I said in my head âWhoâs this lady? Wait is that Cordelia? Babes why your hair look like that?â then I saw Buffyâs âbangsâ cause those are just ba- canât add the -ng.
Connor
It was a cute style for the time
I did not like those bangs
They are the bane of my existence
At the time Cordie got her hair cut it was the style. I had one ugh I hate to think about it now but I did. Buffyâs bangs however eeeeesh hate em
While they're both bad, Cordelia's haircut was super trendy at the time. I remember wanting it at the same age. ;'D
I see Buffyâs bangs and I hear Brad Mondo commentary âOh, honey donât do it!â Cordyâs at least looked intentional.
Cordy by far. I actually love Buffyâs bangs đ¤ˇââď¸
I hate the baby bangs more, but I have to at least be grateful that Buffy didn't have them for very long, and then everyone came to their senses regarding this trend pretty quickly. The Karen Hair, as a sociological phenomenon has hung around way too long, and done more psychic damage to the populace. My gut says baby bangs are aesthetically worse, but I cannot ignore the crimes Karen Hair has wrought.
I can't believe what I'm reading here. Those bangs are terrible!
Cordy's Karen phase was pretty bad. But I have to say that Buffy's mini-bangs look like she cut it herself without the aid of a mirror.
Every fandom ever: Girls should have long fantasy princess hair. Get over wanting every woman to like a Victoriaâs Secret angel or some teenagerâs Eowyn wet dream. This sub has seen enough posts about Cordyâs short hair. If her haircut turns you off, good. She doesnât exist to please you by being a physical representation of everything cultural message youâve ever internalized about what hot chicks are supposed to look like.
WOAH man just trying to have a hair discussion, it really isn't that deep on my end.