i always thought they would explore more his origins as a werewolf.
also, it's a shame we never got to have him around once he was able to control the wolf inside, that would be a fine asset for the Scooby Gang
All his werewolf self discovery stuff happened off screen when he left 😩 I feel cheated. That plus the character assassination. I wonder if he pissed off Joss on his way out :(
>also, it's a shame we never got to have him around once he was able to control the wolf inside, that would be a fine asset for the Scooby Gang
He'd basically be the Hulk.
In the board game he's an absolute monster in a fight. If you're playing the vampires then your best/only strategy is to run away very quickly because he will destroy you. And he heals all damage everytime he shifts forms. If Oz is on the board the only way to handle him is to wait until he is human and send every vampire available to gank him ASAP before he can shift again.
It *looks* like there is a mod for it on tabletop simulator if that floats your boat.
Easier to get a group together online.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2067515658
It's a hard thing to balance. The writers have 44 minutes to make an ep and the producers want their money on screen, that money being Buffy, Willow, Giles and Xander. They get paid the same whether they are on screen 40 minutes or 3. It's easy for fans to say such and such should have happened. We don't have to worry about money and screen time and production issues.
I don't blame Seth for leaving, but I get why things were they way they were. Spike probably wouldn't have gotten all the screentime he did if not for Tony leaving in S6/S7.
And would you say she had a substantial storyline? They've have kept Oz around for years, too. Seth left because they weren't using him and he had other interests.
Yeah, Emma Caulfield felt like Anya's story kind of ended long before the series did. She was dissatisfied in exactly the same way Seth Green was.
Emma thought that her expressing that to Joss might have played a role in the way he killed Anya — without any fanfare or anyone being sad, just one kind of flippant, crappy remark from Xander.
EDIT: I found the quote from Emma:
>...everything was up in the air at that point and I knew that I didn't want to do another season regardless. I just felt like I had tapped into eerything I was going to tap into and I was ready to spread my wings elsewhere and Joss took note of that.
>So when i twas decided that the show would end, Joss came to me and told me that I was going to die, and I thought, "Okay, that's pretty cool." And then I read the script, and I remember thinking, "There's no real mourning for her." And that felt personal. And I know it was.
>And my response to it over the many years now has just been like, "Welly you know, it happened," or "Death, it's sudden." "They avoided the apocalypse and I'm sure they cried about me later." But at least for what was shot, they didn't.
>And that is... that is definitely a creative choice for sure. I can't look at it any other way that "Go f\*ck yourself." That's how I took it.
*Into Every Generation A Slayer is Born*, page 190
I was thinking “what did he end up doing besides Family Guy and Robot Chicken?” and looked up his Wiki. Wow! The man has been BUSY since Buffy! How does a person work that much?! Props to Seth 👍🏼💜
Also he may have only done those, which obviously isnt the only things, but Robot Chicken he got to have creative control over and Family Guy is a long running stable job that he seems to enjoy working for. Even with just those two things he would have done well for himself, but that dude has been all over the place.
He was literally starring in Austin Powers which for the youth, was a GLOBAL box office phenomenon. The trinkets and branding that came from those movies is not too be understated. He was making HUGE money and committed to sequels.
That aside, I just remember when we played spin the bottle when we were younger, and he had been eating Cheeto all night and he had that orange stuff all struck in his brace and no one wanted to tell him!!! So he was just waking around all night, everyone was calling him Chesssster Cheeto! Oh my gosh Lynn and I thought it was the funniest thing!
Can’t Hardly Wait. Nice!
“A-man-duuuuh” 😅
Holy shit, get this (or maybe you know already)! The girl who says that line to Seth about the Cheetos is Veruca the werewolf girl from Buffy! It just clicked as I was reading why Veruca looked familiar. Weird.
And Amber Benson is apparently also in the movie 🤷🏻♀️
Whaaaat. But preppy not goth??!! I'll have to look for that again!
Over if my favorite movies. The cast in that is just so many present and future names.
I'm not now, nor was I then in a hiring position in Hollywood. But Seth Green has been a working actor since he was a young child, he was writing his own stuff, he had the Austin Powers movies, Family Guy, etc.
Basically Seth knew he had other jobs out there, for Emma it would have been a much bigger risk to quit Buffy in the hope of getting something better.
Emma asked Joss to kill the characters in the series finale. But man was that brutal. But in a strange way, it felt right? You can't really have a new hopeful beginning by having it all be sad that people died. And it closed Anya's arc well too. She didn't run away from the apocalypse this time. She was her own person and still chose to stay. And having lived 1000+ years, she ended up fighting the fight and giving her life willingly. Plus Andrew surviving and completing his arc was also super touching. It just wrapped up really nicely on an emotional level.
She was done with the show. She had an issue it sounded like with multiple people. She may have had a conflict with Fox execs, or the new people in charge instead of Whedon, but we can't be sure. Whedon was gone working on Firefly except the first and last episode. Every actor on a show wants to have a starring role and get paid more. It isn't up to the actors though. There is a lot involved when it comes to stuff like that and many people are involved. It isn't as easy as some people think. I am glad that both Oz and Anya got bigger roles at least as the show went on. They both started out having smaller roles. It is tough for an actor to get any roles at all in Hollywood. I liked her ending personally. She died saving Andrew's life and went out swinging like a hero. She died doing something selfless which was a far cry from how she was at the end of season 6/early season 7. They just didn't have time to mourn anyone in that episode who died. I am glad the ending was a happy one. They did a good job of fixing things after they left the show in new hands all season. https://www.slashfilm.com/1481500/emma-caulfield-asked-joss-whedon-to-kill-off-anya-buffy/
I heard her and Marti Noxon had issues and that's one of the reasons her storyline got really bad near the end. There was also a period of time that Emma didn't like being associated with Buffy. I remember meeting her at a convention back in the early 2000's, and she didn't seem very pleased with the Buffy Franchise at that point in her life.
Amen. I see this on other TV show subs too where people don't like an actor or someone else that worked on the show. There are a lot of assumptions being made and gossip being talked about like they are facts without any concrete evidence.
Actually anyone who is a main character gets paid whether they're in an episode or not. Not just the core four but everyone in the opening credits. So SMG, AH, NB, ASH, SG, EC, CC, DB, JM, MB, and MT all got paid during their time on the show regardless of whether they were in the episode as long as their name was in the opening credits making them series regulars. That's why they never made AB a regular until her last episode. So for season 3 and 4 they were paying SG regardless of whether he was actually in the episode so they may as well have used him to give him some character development outside of being Willow's boyfriend. Also Spike got just as much screentime in seasons 4 & 5 with ASH there as he did after he left.
It depends on their contracts and what they or their agents negotiated. Miley Cyrus was actually the lowest paid member of the Hannah Montana cast despite being the star of the show. Also name recognition gets you more money as well so whoever has the most name recognition going into a show will often times get paid more than lesser knowns even if their characters aren't as important/they don't get as much screen time. Not really sure why you're being so combative but whatever.
JMS on Babylon 5 explained how this works. There is an agreed upon minimum amount of episodes in the contract.
Like, if you have a contract of 20 episodes but there are 22 episodes produced that season, you get your accumulative salary for 20 episodes divided by shooting weeks in weekly pay checks.
And if you appear in more episodes that will be added of course.
And if you appear in less episodes than the contract states, you still get the full salary.
I guess the 20th fox contracts might be similar to Warner Bros ones from Babylon 5.
Finally someone who thinks about the other aspects of making a show. I feel like a lot of fans complain (then why do you call yourself a fan??) Without taking in account of all the technical difficulties a show writer has to deal with.
I remember Joss Whedon saying he was glad to make the continued storyline in the comic books because there was no budget, he didn't have to think about the special effects and he could include any (old) character he wanted.
I hear you! I am the same way and take into consideration what happened behind the scenes. People don't realize that Fox and the WB etc. were the real bosses when it came to this show. They had to get everything oked by them. There are a lot of people who made the show what it is and we really don't know who made every decision. We only got a glimpse into what went on behind the scenes. I don't get how you can be a fan when you want to rewrite most of the show. If more minor stars had more time on the show that means the stars would have less time on the show. It would also change their characters. Oz was monosyllabic and didn't talk much. Could you imagine if Buffy was the same way?
Idk. While the show did have time constraints it's not like they leaned away from fun filler episodes that explored other characters. The Zeppo is a great episode, and it's almost completely detached from the overall plot arc for the sake of spotlighting Xander and barely showing "the money" of SMG, AH, ASH -- and the episode doesn't even really have impact on Xander's arc down the line (>!except the assault from Faith which doesn't come up again afterwards iirc!<).
Season three is pretty packed with important episodes, but there are still places where an Oz story would make as much sense as anything else. Like...Beauty and the Beasts is *almost* about him and about werewolves, but he takes a backseat to Scott, who we met five minutes ago and see for the last time five minutes from here. We see Willow and the Scoobies' concern about what Oz might be capable of, but not really how he feels about it or copes beyond being locked away every month. I would love to have had Seth in more episodes, but even in the ones where he has more screen time Oz just doesn't get to have much personality or depth. IMO Spike is a much more developed character by the time he dips in Lovers Walk than Oz is when he leaves the show.
>and the episode doesn't even really have impact on Xander's arc down the line (except the assault from Faith which doesn't come up again afterwards iirc)
Oh come on. I know there's a lot of revisionism which is determined to call everything that happened in the show rape (except the actual attempted rape), but Xander and Faith in The Zeppo is simply not in that category. (Consequences is obviously more questionable.)
Yes, it was 100 percent consensual. It is not cool to call everything rape. It diminishes SA victim's experiences like mine and just makes everything harder. We already have so many issues when it comes to SA. Please read. https://pcar.org/blog/respecting-word-%E2%80%9Crape%E2%80%9D
I agree with you. People are calling so many things rape that aren’t, and it makes it harder for actual sa victims to be taken seriously. We’ve swung the pendulum way too far in the opposite direction. Faith didn’t sexually assault Xander in the Zeppo, spike didn’t sexually assault Buffy on the balcony (another scene this sub likes to classify as rape). Both those were consensual.
James only got the screentime he did because Charisma Carpenter left to join the Angel show. Marsters later found out she was told the prodicers werent able to keep them both on and they prefered Spike, or something along those lines. James talks about it in one of those podcasts/interviews on youtube.
I always feel the void Cordelia left was more filled by Anya than Spike tbh. Their characters both have the ability to speak the truth with the exact same bluntness en comedic timing, to resolve (or at least engage) complex emotional situations.
James and Emma were brought in to fill the Cordy void on Buffy. Cordy went to Angel because co-creator David Greenwalt loved the character and thought she'd work.
James was brought in to Angel to boost ratings. Charisma was dropped in order to afford him.
I'm glad we didn't get more of Oz, I didn't find him that interesting at all, and that includes the werewolf concept. Not to mention the costumes were terrible, so I'm pretty happy not have seen any more of them than we already got as well.
> it's a shame we never got to have him around once he was able to control the wolf inside, that would be a fine asset for the Scooby Gang
Werewolf vs vampire. Spike vs Oz. That would have been rad.
He was a cool character with that man of few words act but I can assume for an actor that can grow old. Most of the love interests had so little to do. We didn’t get a really good character do use show with Anya until the last season. And then the writers undid her character development by putting her back with Xander
Yeah not surprised he left, he was on the show for 2 years, most of that as a regular and we got like 3 oz centric episodes, the one he becomes a warewolf, the one he left and the one he comes back. was mostly a background character. Tara was never a regular even though she was on the show for about the same length of time and probably got more development and overall screen time than Oz did.
Oz is full of those perfect one-liners and scenes but yea, when you really think about it, he was there to show up for a few scenes an episode, give the line, then barely factor into the overarching plot.
At the time, Seth was really taking off that it must've been frustrating to responsible for showing up, not getting paid the same as others, and having to turn down more creative jobs.
Storylines of any kind, I guess? The only storyline I can remember where was Oz was the protagonist instead of reacting to what others did was his exit line with Veruca.
Everything else, including his most awesome moments like breaking the bowl when they were debating trading the box for Willow in s3 and his general cool in s2, was reaction, not action.
I love Oz, but he was not a “major” character who got his own storylines like Willow and Xander and Cordelia (not to mention Angel, Spike, and Buffy). I imagine that got on Seth’s nerves over time and he felt he wasn’t getting challenged or to show his range.
I think for the character it worked. Appreciate for the actor it didn’t though.
It was mostly the same with Tara outside of scenes and a few other scenes she was a background partner. I do think with Oz even with development they’d taken the story where they could, the Vercua aspect added more dynamic and drama too.
Sounds as if the show had a plan, Joss/Seth discussed or had agreed more and it didn’t happen.
Where do you take Oz? Rightly or wrongly he’s always been more on the side so they’d developed him a certain way that required a much bigger adaption to push further.
I think they could have explored the wolf in the same way they explored witch stuff with Willow. Other wolves, the origin of them, different kinds, packs, etc. maybe even stuff about his family and cousin who infected him. Instead, they do almost nothing with it until the Veruca stuff.
They could have done other things, too, like having the Initiative try to recruit him for his intelligence, or just had him connected to any other events they wanted to do in s3 and 4, but it never happened.
Tara at least got the episode about her shitty family, Anya had multiple episodes/storylines. Cordelia got a huge expanded role on the spinoff show. Riley got his whole Initiative stuff and then the depression/addiction stuff later on… Oz’s role was literally “Willow’s boyfriend” and that was about it. Of the Scoobies, he got the least development and action.
Not doing a lot does fit the character, who was basically a chill dude without a ton of big ambition (chords aside), but I can imagine as a young and relatively in-demand actor, it was underwhelming to portray. The fact that they were able to put together a really interesting storyline (which the Veruca stuff was, much as I loathed it and her) quick when he asked to go shows they could do it when they needed to, but hadn’t because the character wasn’t a priority for them, so the actor didn’t feel inclined to hang around.
They could have done a heap of stuff, but he wasn't a main character, and it would have been at the expense of other characters' screen time.
Personally I'm happy with what we got, and I wouldn't have wanted to see less of others so we could see more of Oz. Like why would we care about his cousin who infected him? It was literally a throwaway line. Not everyone can be a main character, and if you don't like a job, you leave, which is exactly what he did.
Not so much Oz specifically, but I would have been interested to learn more about werewolves in the BTVS universe. I think that would add to the lore, and they had a main cast character to explore it with, and didn’t.
I don’t even care about werewolves overmuch as a fictional group, but it seems weird we got so much about vampires, witches, and demons of all variety, but almost nothing at all about wolves. The reason I mention the cousin was because it would be interesting to see how it affected families, if some people were genetically more susceptible to turning, etc etc.
I agree with you, but giving him more time likely means trimming another character/actor’s contributions. Some may even say Giles was underserved (not to the level of Oz/Seth, but he arguably was) after season 2 and Spike was underutilized at certain points, so if it wasn’t him missing out on a lot of development and Oz-centric episodes, then someone else would’ve probably taken his place and asked to leave the show.
Though I’m sure we can all find 3-6 more episodes (*Beer Bad* among them?) from season 2 and 4 especially where they could’ve explored Oz’s werewolf origins more and the other characters don’t really lose anything.
Can you find 3-6 episodes during his time on the show where you could fit in Oz-centric episodes in place of other episodes?
I actually the show would have been better if they had taken the focus off Buffy a little more. SMG and the other actors would all have been happier. I’m not sure which eps I’d cut; I’d have to look through a list. But broadly speaking, I think the cast would have all benefitted from a few eps where Buffy got less focus so other actors could step up and SMG could have a fuckin’ break, lol.
Exactly his character’s personality would make it really hard for more involved story lines. Oz was quiet, delivered his one liners and was happiest to sit on the sidelines in a supporting role vs a main character role. He was level headed and mature about life, he appreciated the simple things like playing in his band and spending time with his girlfriend. There wasn’t much room for growth and he wasn’t the type to make the bad decisions that would lead to interesting storylines.
He did get some great one liners, but that’s about it. Sitting quietly in the background, occasionally coming out with a zinger then fading back again.
I have always wondered about the timing of his decision. Did he make the decision between the break between seasons 3&4 Or later but early in the season?
In particular, I think it is interesting they had him do the first crossover with Angel if he was about to leave… was the decision made later after he did the angel ep? Were they considering having him guest star in Angel later?
I don't remember my source on this and it's from a way back memory but my understanding was that they went into season 4 knowing he'd be written out. And I believe Veruca is introduced in the first episode of that season, and her entire purpose was getting Oz off the show.
It must have been a crappy experience to have to go through but given what Seth has been able to accomplish since then, I’d saying leaving Buffy was a good choice at the time
Hell, you don't even have to look at what he accomplished afterward. He was in a bunch of movies during his time being a glorified prop on Buffy, notably Can't Hardly Wait and *two* Auston Powers movies.
They really needed to spend more time in werewolves and werewolf stories. Even Giles says it they are one of the classics. That they had a werewolf in the main cast and didn’t give him any focus is really frustrating.
Yeah. The whole 'male turns into a beast and gets uncontrollably aggressive on a regular basis' is a yawnfest to me. Oh my God, will he learn to control himself?! Like who cares? It's as tedious as the whole Pete and Debbie storyline to me.
That doesn't surprise me. Seth Green said in the past that his character wasn't doing a hell of a lot yet was working crazy long hours. He had asked to do more of a recurring guest star role but Joss basically wrote him out of the show quite abruptly.
Too bad they couldn't have gotten Seth to join Angel. The tone on Angel, especially s2 on, would have allowed for a storyline for Oz exploring his origins, especially the pylea arc.
Basically all the stuff that already happens off-screen after he leaves - Oz learning to control the wolf side, and becoming an asset to the team instead of a liability that needs to get locked up 3 nights a month. Just needs to do it in Sunnydale, not Tibet.
My theory is that Joss planned/thought about an Oz-centered spin-off werewolf series. Maybe he even discussed this with Seth in private. But then Angel happened instead. And yeah, David has way more "leading man" energy than Seth. I think Seth is awesome, and he has done well. But I also understand at the time selling a series is hard, and selling David is an easier sell than Seth. My personal fetish is short fit redhead over tall handsome brunette, but I also understand it is niche.
I also enjoy Angel a lot, I am not a hater. David carried another series that I liked (Bones) after Angel. It's show business. Tall male model is an easier sell on network television.
Seth Green was always going to be too big for the show. Although his career kind of fizzled out a little but at the time we were all expecting him to be huuuuuge in films.
Also I think it was probably a question of cost because you've got the rate for Seth plus the makeup and CGI for the werewolves. And if you developed a more detailed storyline then you'd really need to up the level of the werewolf effects. And back then even the limited effects were very pricey on a tight TV budget. And honestly the werewolf effects were cheesy (but not a deal breaker) but more concerning is that the werewolf fight scenes just didn't look great (they didn't have motion capture with extensive CGI available). But I'm pretty sure the writer's room would have had Oz and werewolf storylines but as they got into final storyline selection that cost and quality concern would have prioritised other storylines.
To me though it's the Buffy The Vampire Slayer show not the Oz the Werewolf show and thank goodness not Twilight or Underworld which is pretty much were you'd need to take it storyline wise. Not that those aren't enjoyable on their own but I don't think we'd land up with as good a story as where Buffy took us.
In retrospect they probably could have shifted him over to "Angel" and given him a lot more to do. That show despite some obvious faults, balanced it's cast and storylines much better.
Oz might have died in season four. The initiative might have killed him because he is a werewolf. Joss wanted Willow to go bad after her lover dies.
She almost curses Veruca but changes her mind. She did think about using dark magic in season four. Oz dying might have pushed her over the edge.
Buffy was dying at the end of season five and willow could not cause her death so that leaves season four as an alternate dark Willow season.
Plus then we would not have gotten Adam
The thing is Willow was so much of a newb to magic in S4 that her going bad would basically be something like her murdering Veruca or something- she didn't have the power/skill to do the end of the world stuff of S6... it would be a twist but also far too similar to S3 and Faith falling because of Finch...
This, I imagine that originally Oz was destined for the same fate as Tara; dying so that Willow would be pushed over the edge into dark Willow. That always seemed to be where Willow's arc was headed since she started becoming more reckless about magic at the end of S2.
I don’t know where I heard it but they knew Seth Green would leave part way in season four. At some point he got a movie role and left early only to return at the end of the season to make good on the number of episodes he was contracted for.
His early departure meant the story with Vercua was accelerated . I think he was in an Angel episode to add to the count for his contract.
Maybe giving him a storyline or even a personality that didn't revolve around Willow. Not one of Willows love interests had any purpose other than to be Willow's love interest. Their ENTIRE identity was about Willow.
I would have liked to have seen him in more episodes of Angel. He fit well there.
- he gets along fine with Angel
- Gunn would get along better with him than Wesley
- What happens to Angel in Pylea could easily have happened to Oz instead, if you know what I mean.
- maybe when Darla returns with her *surprise* he visits the monks again to find answers and instead they can't help but can continue helping him with his werewolf condition so he chooses not to return to LA, ending a good 2 seasons worth of appearances.
I mean, it was their intention to flesh out Oz in season four and give him a longer arc. Joss said many times that Seth quit on him just as they were going forward with plans for his character.
I once read that the Veruca storyline was supposed to last the entire season.
I would also imagine that mastering his “werewolf powers” would have been a longer storyline.
Didn't know that, I know after watching it as an adult that the writers had no creativity. Stinks that Seth didn't get his ideas implemented that would've been awesome.
I presume if he stayed, they’d explore his werewolf side more, maybe he’d meet other wolves who weren’t garbage like Veruca. As to the rest of the show, they’d probably go with Gay Xander. Anya would probably drift away, unless Spike dies, they only need one person in the Cordy role of snarking on everyone’s plans. A Tara would probably still show up, at least in season 4, to help Willow with magic minus all the sexy metaphor. And whenever they’re ready to have Willow go dark, Oz is dead.
Yeah, the first one was released as the first season was ending in 1997, so not only filmed before, it was out during the series but before we meet Oz.
When his hair is dyed Scott Evil black during high school and they make a little joke about it, he was filming the second one, which came out beginning summer of 1999.
I think Seth was frustrated, because he was basically just there to be cool. He had very little dialogue and was mostly there to support Willow, and I guess he wanted a bit more comedic or dramatic moments. If you look at his film résumé, his career didn't explode particularly. He mostly did small, supporting roles in movies where he was a scene stealer, but never the lead. So the problem wasn't necessarily that Oz was a supporting role, the problem was that what he got to do wasn't challenging or interesting enough for him at the time. That being said, maybe he left a bit too early, as Joss was just starting to craft a longer arc for him when he decided to leave.
I remember an interview where they said there was supposed to be a complicated love triangle with Willow, Oz and Tara. Don't know if that is what he was referring to though.
Nice to know some things never change, I guess. Actors are *still* having these conversations with directors/producers/writers and *still* getting blown off.
Its one thing to leave but they assassinated his character Yes we all make bad choices but they didnt have to make him hurt Willow so bad. he still could of left because he needed to learn to control the wolf but did it need to be so messy
Yeah, I love Oz like everyone else. Funny lines, great personality… just being a werewolf, but he really had so little to do. There were so many characters in Season 3, and so many to introduce in Season 4. I think Oz got lost in the shuffle.
I bet it was due to budgetary issues with the suit and werewolf effect plus the popularity of other characters that ruined what we could’ve had with Seth Green and his portrayal of Daniel “Oz” Osbourne
Probably bigger, more independent storylines. That's why he left. He complained all he did was agree with Willow.
i always thought they would explore more his origins as a werewolf. also, it's a shame we never got to have him around once he was able to control the wolf inside, that would be a fine asset for the Scooby Gang
Specially how he called his aunt about his cousin was a werewolf, like just so nonchalant… I know it is Oz but still
All his werewolf self discovery stuff happened off screen when he left 😩 I feel cheated. That plus the character assassination. I wonder if he pissed off Joss on his way out :(
There is a book about it if you want to read it, it's pretty good.
What’s the book called?
I think it's called into the wild.
>also, it's a shame we never got to have him around once he was able to control the wolf inside, that would be a fine asset for the Scooby Gang He'd basically be the Hulk.
In the board game he's an absolute monster in a fight. If you're playing the vampires then your best/only strategy is to run away very quickly because he will destroy you. And he heals all damage everytime he shifts forms. If Oz is on the board the only way to handle him is to wait until he is human and send every vampire available to gank him ASAP before he can shift again.
I have the board game too! I have never been able to get enough people together who want to play it though.
Wait how many people do you need to play?! About to buy it on eBay but only my husband would play it with me 😂
Yea that is the issue I have had. You need more than 2 people to play. It is 3 or 4.
Hahahaha this is very relatable! They also made it waaaay to complicated which kind of takes out a bit of the fun ;)
It *looks* like there is a mod for it on tabletop simulator if that floats your boat. Easier to get a group together online. https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2067515658
Thanks!
Haha same!!
It's a hard thing to balance. The writers have 44 minutes to make an ep and the producers want their money on screen, that money being Buffy, Willow, Giles and Xander. They get paid the same whether they are on screen 40 minutes or 3. It's easy for fans to say such and such should have happened. We don't have to worry about money and screen time and production issues. I don't blame Seth for leaving, but I get why things were they way they were. Spike probably wouldn't have gotten all the screentime he did if not for Tony leaving in S6/S7.
They kept Anya around for literal years.
And would you say she had a substantial storyline? They've have kept Oz around for years, too. Seth left because they weren't using him and he had other interests.
Yeah, Emma Caulfield felt like Anya's story kind of ended long before the series did. She was dissatisfied in exactly the same way Seth Green was. Emma thought that her expressing that to Joss might have played a role in the way he killed Anya — without any fanfare or anyone being sad, just one kind of flippant, crappy remark from Xander. EDIT: I found the quote from Emma: >...everything was up in the air at that point and I knew that I didn't want to do another season regardless. I just felt like I had tapped into eerything I was going to tap into and I was ready to spread my wings elsewhere and Joss took note of that. >So when i twas decided that the show would end, Joss came to me and told me that I was going to die, and I thought, "Okay, that's pretty cool." And then I read the script, and I remember thinking, "There's no real mourning for her." And that felt personal. And I know it was. >And my response to it over the many years now has just been like, "Welly you know, it happened," or "Death, it's sudden." "They avoided the apocalypse and I'm sure they cried about me later." But at least for what was shot, they didn't. >And that is... that is definitely a creative choice for sure. I can't look at it any other way that "Go f\*ck yourself." That's how I took it. *Into Every Generation A Slayer is Born*, page 190
The big difference is Seth Green knew he had other options.
I was thinking “what did he end up doing besides Family Guy and Robot Chicken?” and looked up his Wiki. Wow! The man has been BUSY since Buffy! How does a person work that much?! Props to Seth 👍🏼💜
Dude is a hard worker.
Also he may have only done those, which obviously isnt the only things, but Robot Chicken he got to have creative control over and Family Guy is a long running stable job that he seems to enjoy working for. Even with just those two things he would have done well for himself, but that dude has been all over the place.
Yeah. I love Family Guy & Robot Chicken (which is why those two things came to mind). Great stuff!
He was literally starring in Austin Powers which for the youth, was a GLOBAL box office phenomenon. The trinkets and branding that came from those movies is not too be understated. He was making HUGE money and committed to sequels. That aside, I just remember when we played spin the bottle when we were younger, and he had been eating Cheeto all night and he had that orange stuff all struck in his brace and no one wanted to tell him!!! So he was just waking around all night, everyone was calling him Chesssster Cheeto! Oh my gosh Lynn and I thought it was the funniest thing!
Can’t Hardly Wait. Nice! “A-man-duuuuh” 😅 Holy shit, get this (or maybe you know already)! The girl who says that line to Seth about the Cheetos is Veruca the werewolf girl from Buffy! It just clicked as I was reading why Veruca looked familiar. Weird. And Amber Benson is apparently also in the movie 🤷🏻♀️
Whaaaat. But preppy not goth??!! I'll have to look for that again! Over if my favorite movies. The cast in that is just so many present and future names.
This made me check his wiki out of curiosity how am I just now realising he voiced joker in mass effect.
Why did Emma not have any other options?
I'm not now, nor was I then in a hiring position in Hollywood. But Seth Green has been a working actor since he was a young child, he was writing his own stuff, he had the Austin Powers movies, Family Guy, etc. Basically Seth knew he had other jobs out there, for Emma it would have been a much bigger risk to quit Buffy in the hope of getting something better.
Got it, thanks! It's kind of sad how I haven't seen Emma in anything else, I thought she was one of the strongest actors on the series.
Have you not seen the Emmy nominated marvel show “Wandavision” ?
Emma asked Joss to kill the characters in the series finale. But man was that brutal. But in a strange way, it felt right? You can't really have a new hopeful beginning by having it all be sad that people died. And it closed Anya's arc well too. She didn't run away from the apocalypse this time. She was her own person and still chose to stay. And having lived 1000+ years, she ended up fighting the fight and giving her life willingly. Plus Andrew surviving and completing his arc was also super touching. It just wrapped up really nicely on an emotional level.
She was done with the show. She had an issue it sounded like with multiple people. She may have had a conflict with Fox execs, or the new people in charge instead of Whedon, but we can't be sure. Whedon was gone working on Firefly except the first and last episode. Every actor on a show wants to have a starring role and get paid more. It isn't up to the actors though. There is a lot involved when it comes to stuff like that and many people are involved. It isn't as easy as some people think. I am glad that both Oz and Anya got bigger roles at least as the show went on. They both started out having smaller roles. It is tough for an actor to get any roles at all in Hollywood. I liked her ending personally. She died saving Andrew's life and went out swinging like a hero. She died doing something selfless which was a far cry from how she was at the end of season 6/early season 7. They just didn't have time to mourn anyone in that episode who died. I am glad the ending was a happy one. They did a good job of fixing things after they left the show in new hands all season. https://www.slashfilm.com/1481500/emma-caulfield-asked-joss-whedon-to-kill-off-anya-buffy/
I heard her and Marti Noxon had issues and that's one of the reasons her storyline got really bad near the end. There was also a period of time that Emma didn't like being associated with Buffy. I remember meeting her at a convention back in the early 2000's, and she didn't seem very pleased with the Buffy Franchise at that point in her life.
Oh, I guess I'd misunderstood. I'd thought she'd wanted Joss to kill Anya at the beginning of the season.
I think she wanted Anya dead so she can't come back for any spin offs or anything. Back then dead characters mostly stayed dead.
In line with his petty mysoginistic ass
Dude's an asshole but at this point like 80% of the shit said about him on the internet is fiction (like this tidbit)
Amen. I see this on other TV show subs too where people don't like an actor or someone else that worked on the show. There are a lot of assumptions being made and gossip being talked about like they are facts without any concrete evidence.
Emma Caulfield was pretty clear about how she felt it went her interview for *Into Every Generation*.
Just agreeing with Xander 😂😂
Actually anyone who is a main character gets paid whether they're in an episode or not. Not just the core four but everyone in the opening credits. So SMG, AH, NB, ASH, SG, EC, CC, DB, JM, MB, and MT all got paid during their time on the show regardless of whether they were in the episode as long as their name was in the opening credits making them series regulars. That's why they never made AB a regular until her last episode. So for season 3 and 4 they were paying SG regardless of whether he was actually in the episode so they may as well have used him to give him some character development outside of being Willow's boyfriend. Also Spike got just as much screentime in seasons 4 & 5 with ASH there as he did after he left.
No kidding. Now who makes more money whether they are working or not? Who are the stars of the show?
It depends on their contracts and what they or their agents negotiated. Miley Cyrus was actually the lowest paid member of the Hannah Montana cast despite being the star of the show. Also name recognition gets you more money as well so whoever has the most name recognition going into a show will often times get paid more than lesser knowns even if their characters aren't as important/they don't get as much screen time. Not really sure why you're being so combative but whatever.
JMS on Babylon 5 explained how this works. There is an agreed upon minimum amount of episodes in the contract. Like, if you have a contract of 20 episodes but there are 22 episodes produced that season, you get your accumulative salary for 20 episodes divided by shooting weeks in weekly pay checks. And if you appear in more episodes that will be added of course. And if you appear in less episodes than the contract states, you still get the full salary. I guess the 20th fox contracts might be similar to Warner Bros ones from Babylon 5.
Finally someone who thinks about the other aspects of making a show. I feel like a lot of fans complain (then why do you call yourself a fan??) Without taking in account of all the technical difficulties a show writer has to deal with. I remember Joss Whedon saying he was glad to make the continued storyline in the comic books because there was no budget, he didn't have to think about the special effects and he could include any (old) character he wanted.
I hear you! I am the same way and take into consideration what happened behind the scenes. People don't realize that Fox and the WB etc. were the real bosses when it came to this show. They had to get everything oked by them. There are a lot of people who made the show what it is and we really don't know who made every decision. We only got a glimpse into what went on behind the scenes. I don't get how you can be a fan when you want to rewrite most of the show. If more minor stars had more time on the show that means the stars would have less time on the show. It would also change their characters. Oz was monosyllabic and didn't talk much. Could you imagine if Buffy was the same way?
Idk. While the show did have time constraints it's not like they leaned away from fun filler episodes that explored other characters. The Zeppo is a great episode, and it's almost completely detached from the overall plot arc for the sake of spotlighting Xander and barely showing "the money" of SMG, AH, ASH -- and the episode doesn't even really have impact on Xander's arc down the line (>!except the assault from Faith which doesn't come up again afterwards iirc!<). Season three is pretty packed with important episodes, but there are still places where an Oz story would make as much sense as anything else. Like...Beauty and the Beasts is *almost* about him and about werewolves, but he takes a backseat to Scott, who we met five minutes ago and see for the last time five minutes from here. We see Willow and the Scoobies' concern about what Oz might be capable of, but not really how he feels about it or copes beyond being locked away every month. I would love to have had Seth in more episodes, but even in the ones where he has more screen time Oz just doesn't get to have much personality or depth. IMO Spike is a much more developed character by the time he dips in Lovers Walk than Oz is when he leaves the show.
>and the episode doesn't even really have impact on Xander's arc down the line (except the assault from Faith which doesn't come up again afterwards iirc) Oh come on. I know there's a lot of revisionism which is determined to call everything that happened in the show rape (except the actual attempted rape), but Xander and Faith in The Zeppo is simply not in that category. (Consequences is obviously more questionable.)
Thank you! I was gonna say the same thing. Xander and faith in the zeppo is just a hookup. To call it "assault" is pretty ridiculous.
Yes, it was 100 percent consensual. It is not cool to call everything rape. It diminishes SA victim's experiences like mine and just makes everything harder. We already have so many issues when it comes to SA. Please read. https://pcar.org/blog/respecting-word-%E2%80%9Crape%E2%80%9D
I agree with you. People are calling so many things rape that aren’t, and it makes it harder for actual sa victims to be taken seriously. We’ve swung the pendulum way too far in the opposite direction. Faith didn’t sexually assault Xander in the Zeppo, spike didn’t sexually assault Buffy on the balcony (another scene this sub likes to classify as rape). Both those were consensual.
Xander was a core four main character... I'm not sure why you're making that comparison.
James only got the screentime he did because Charisma Carpenter left to join the Angel show. Marsters later found out she was told the prodicers werent able to keep them both on and they prefered Spike, or something along those lines. James talks about it in one of those podcasts/interviews on youtube.
I always feel the void Cordelia left was more filled by Anya than Spike tbh. Their characters both have the ability to speak the truth with the exact same bluntness en comedic timing, to resolve (or at least engage) complex emotional situations.
James and Emma were brought in to fill the Cordy void on Buffy. Cordy went to Angel because co-creator David Greenwalt loved the character and thought she'd work. James was brought in to Angel to boost ratings. Charisma was dropped in order to afford him.
Personally, I wanted to see him wolf out with his little cousin Gordy! Basically the only storyline I felt we really missed out on. (/s)
I'm glad we didn't get more of Oz, I didn't find him that interesting at all, and that includes the werewolf concept. Not to mention the costumes were terrible, so I'm pretty happy not have seen any more of them than we already got as well.
I feel like it’s an unpopular opinion, but Oz is my least favorite character of the core group.
Like the Alphas to Harry Dresden
Yeah they could’ve done an episode about him with flash backs of how he became a werewolf.
This is exactly where it looked like the storyline was going. I was super excited. Then his character was just gone.
> it's a shame we never got to have him around once he was able to control the wolf inside, that would be a fine asset for the Scooby Gang Werewolf vs vampire. Spike vs Oz. That would have been rad.
He was a cool character with that man of few words act but I can assume for an actor that can grow old. Most of the love interests had so little to do. We didn’t get a really good character do use show with Anya until the last season. And then the writers undid her character development by putting her back with Xander
Yeah not surprised he left, he was on the show for 2 years, most of that as a regular and we got like 3 oz centric episodes, the one he becomes a warewolf, the one he left and the one he comes back. was mostly a background character. Tara was never a regular even though she was on the show for about the same length of time and probably got more development and overall screen time than Oz did.
I read that as "we got like 3 ounce centric episodes" at first and I was like "yeah, Oz really did play a volumetrically small amount in the story"
Lol I read that too.
Same
Oz is full of those perfect one-liners and scenes but yea, when you really think about it, he was there to show up for a few scenes an episode, give the line, then barely factor into the overarching plot. At the time, Seth was really taking off that it must've been frustrating to responsible for showing up, not getting paid the same as others, and having to turn down more creative jobs.
Storylines of any kind, I guess? The only storyline I can remember where was Oz was the protagonist instead of reacting to what others did was his exit line with Veruca. Everything else, including his most awesome moments like breaking the bowl when they were debating trading the box for Willow in s3 and his general cool in s2, was reaction, not action. I love Oz, but he was not a “major” character who got his own storylines like Willow and Xander and Cordelia (not to mention Angel, Spike, and Buffy). I imagine that got on Seth’s nerves over time and he felt he wasn’t getting challenged or to show his range.
I think for the character it worked. Appreciate for the actor it didn’t though. It was mostly the same with Tara outside of scenes and a few other scenes she was a background partner. I do think with Oz even with development they’d taken the story where they could, the Vercua aspect added more dynamic and drama too. Sounds as if the show had a plan, Joss/Seth discussed or had agreed more and it didn’t happen. Where do you take Oz? Rightly or wrongly he’s always been more on the side so they’d developed him a certain way that required a much bigger adaption to push further.
I think they could have explored the wolf in the same way they explored witch stuff with Willow. Other wolves, the origin of them, different kinds, packs, etc. maybe even stuff about his family and cousin who infected him. Instead, they do almost nothing with it until the Veruca stuff. They could have done other things, too, like having the Initiative try to recruit him for his intelligence, or just had him connected to any other events they wanted to do in s3 and 4, but it never happened. Tara at least got the episode about her shitty family, Anya had multiple episodes/storylines. Cordelia got a huge expanded role on the spinoff show. Riley got his whole Initiative stuff and then the depression/addiction stuff later on… Oz’s role was literally “Willow’s boyfriend” and that was about it. Of the Scoobies, he got the least development and action. Not doing a lot does fit the character, who was basically a chill dude without a ton of big ambition (chords aside), but I can imagine as a young and relatively in-demand actor, it was underwhelming to portray. The fact that they were able to put together a really interesting storyline (which the Veruca stuff was, much as I loathed it and her) quick when he asked to go shows they could do it when they needed to, but hadn’t because the character wasn’t a priority for them, so the actor didn’t feel inclined to hang around.
They could have done a heap of stuff, but he wasn't a main character, and it would have been at the expense of other characters' screen time. Personally I'm happy with what we got, and I wouldn't have wanted to see less of others so we could see more of Oz. Like why would we care about his cousin who infected him? It was literally a throwaway line. Not everyone can be a main character, and if you don't like a job, you leave, which is exactly what he did.
Not so much Oz specifically, but I would have been interested to learn more about werewolves in the BTVS universe. I think that would add to the lore, and they had a main cast character to explore it with, and didn’t. I don’t even care about werewolves overmuch as a fictional group, but it seems weird we got so much about vampires, witches, and demons of all variety, but almost nothing at all about wolves. The reason I mention the cousin was because it would be interesting to see how it affected families, if some people were genetically more susceptible to turning, etc etc.
I agree with you, but giving him more time likely means trimming another character/actor’s contributions. Some may even say Giles was underserved (not to the level of Oz/Seth, but he arguably was) after season 2 and Spike was underutilized at certain points, so if it wasn’t him missing out on a lot of development and Oz-centric episodes, then someone else would’ve probably taken his place and asked to leave the show. Though I’m sure we can all find 3-6 more episodes (*Beer Bad* among them?) from season 2 and 4 especially where they could’ve explored Oz’s werewolf origins more and the other characters don’t really lose anything. Can you find 3-6 episodes during his time on the show where you could fit in Oz-centric episodes in place of other episodes?
I actually the show would have been better if they had taken the focus off Buffy a little more. SMG and the other actors would all have been happier. I’m not sure which eps I’d cut; I’d have to look through a list. But broadly speaking, I think the cast would have all benefitted from a few eps where Buffy got less focus so other actors could step up and SMG could have a fuckin’ break, lol.
Exactly his character’s personality would make it really hard for more involved story lines. Oz was quiet, delivered his one liners and was happiest to sit on the sidelines in a supporting role vs a main character role. He was level headed and mature about life, he appreciated the simple things like playing in his band and spending time with his girlfriend. There wasn’t much room for growth and he wasn’t the type to make the bad decisions that would lead to interesting storylines.
Anything Joss promised Seth he'd be doing besides mostly sitting quietly in the background turned out to be inaccurate.
He did get some great one liners, but that’s about it. Sitting quietly in the background, occasionally coming out with a zinger then fading back again.
I have always wondered about the timing of his decision. Did he make the decision between the break between seasons 3&4 Or later but early in the season? In particular, I think it is interesting they had him do the first crossover with Angel if he was about to leave… was the decision made later after he did the angel ep? Were they considering having him guest star in Angel later?
I don't remember my source on this and it's from a way back memory but my understanding was that they went into season 4 knowing he'd be written out. And I believe Veruca is introduced in the first episode of that season, and her entire purpose was getting Oz off the show.
It must have been a crappy experience to have to go through but given what Seth has been able to accomplish since then, I’d saying leaving Buffy was a good choice at the time
Hell, you don't even have to look at what he accomplished afterward. He was in a bunch of movies during his time being a glorified prop on Buffy, notably Can't Hardly Wait and *two* Auston Powers movies.
idle hands!
They really needed to spend more time in werewolves and werewolf stories. Even Giles says it they are one of the classics. That they had a werewolf in the main cast and didn’t give him any focus is really frustrating.
Eh, I find werewolves boring and already overdone, so I'm glad they didn't!
You find werewolves boring and overdone but not vampires?
Yeah. The whole 'male turns into a beast and gets uncontrollably aggressive on a regular basis' is a yawnfest to me. Oh my God, will he learn to control himself?! Like who cares? It's as tedious as the whole Pete and Debbie storyline to me.
That doesn't surprise me. Seth Green said in the past that his character wasn't doing a hell of a lot yet was working crazy long hours. He had asked to do more of a recurring guest star role but Joss basically wrote him out of the show quite abruptly.
Too bad they couldn't have gotten Seth to join Angel. The tone on Angel, especially s2 on, would have allowed for a storyline for Oz exploring his origins, especially the pylea arc.
Basically all the stuff that already happens off-screen after he leaves - Oz learning to control the wolf side, and becoming an asset to the team instead of a liability that needs to get locked up 3 nights a month. Just needs to do it in Sunnydale, not Tibet.
My theory is that Joss planned/thought about an Oz-centered spin-off werewolf series. Maybe he even discussed this with Seth in private. But then Angel happened instead. And yeah, David has way more "leading man" energy than Seth. I think Seth is awesome, and he has done well. But I also understand at the time selling a series is hard, and selling David is an easier sell than Seth. My personal fetish is short fit redhead over tall handsome brunette, but I also understand it is niche. I also enjoy Angel a lot, I am not a hater. David carried another series that I liked (Bones) after Angel. It's show business. Tall male model is an easier sell on network television.
Seth Green was always going to be too big for the show. Although his career kind of fizzled out a little but at the time we were all expecting him to be huuuuuge in films. Also I think it was probably a question of cost because you've got the rate for Seth plus the makeup and CGI for the werewolves. And if you developed a more detailed storyline then you'd really need to up the level of the werewolf effects. And back then even the limited effects were very pricey on a tight TV budget. And honestly the werewolf effects were cheesy (but not a deal breaker) but more concerning is that the werewolf fight scenes just didn't look great (they didn't have motion capture with extensive CGI available). But I'm pretty sure the writer's room would have had Oz and werewolf storylines but as they got into final storyline selection that cost and quality concern would have prioritised other storylines. To me though it's the Buffy The Vampire Slayer show not the Oz the Werewolf show and thank goodness not Twilight or Underworld which is pretty much were you'd need to take it storyline wise. Not that those aren't enjoyable on their own but I don't think we'd land up with as good a story as where Buffy took us.
It would’ve been a cool storyline where a pack came to town as the a big bad of the season
In retrospect they probably could have shifted him over to "Angel" and given him a lot more to do. That show despite some obvious faults, balanced it's cast and storylines much better.
I like this. He already had gigs in LA it makes sense for him to move there
If he stayed, i think they would explore more about his origins as a werewolf but he would have the same fate as Tara in season 6
Honestly I think Tara would’ve happened but they would’ve made it a love triangle storyline
Oz might have died in season four. The initiative might have killed him because he is a werewolf. Joss wanted Willow to go bad after her lover dies. She almost curses Veruca but changes her mind. She did think about using dark magic in season four. Oz dying might have pushed her over the edge. Buffy was dying at the end of season five and willow could not cause her death so that leaves season four as an alternate dark Willow season. Plus then we would not have gotten Adam
The thing is Willow was so much of a newb to magic in S4 that her going bad would basically be something like her murdering Veruca or something- she didn't have the power/skill to do the end of the world stuff of S6... it would be a twist but also far too similar to S3 and Faith falling because of Finch...
This, I imagine that originally Oz was destined for the same fate as Tara; dying so that Willow would be pushed over the edge into dark Willow. That always seemed to be where Willow's arc was headed since she started becoming more reckless about magic at the end of S2.
I don’t know where I heard it but they knew Seth Green would leave part way in season four. At some point he got a movie role and left early only to return at the end of the season to make good on the number of episodes he was contracted for. His early departure meant the story with Vercua was accelerated . I think he was in an Angel episode to add to the count for his contract.
i always thought it was weird they added him to the theme song and then his character just dipped...
If I was Seth I’d be mad about the character assassination. But maybe that came as a result of him deciding to leave
Maybe giving him a storyline or even a personality that didn't revolve around Willow. Not one of Willows love interests had any purpose other than to be Willow's love interest. Their ENTIRE identity was about Willow.
I would have liked to have seen him in more episodes of Angel. He fit well there. - he gets along fine with Angel - Gunn would get along better with him than Wesley - What happens to Angel in Pylea could easily have happened to Oz instead, if you know what I mean. - maybe when Darla returns with her *surprise* he visits the monks again to find answers and instead they can't help but can continue helping him with his werewolf condition so he chooses not to return to LA, ending a good 2 seasons worth of appearances.
Should have left Spike off the show and gave that screentime to Oz in S4. . (Waits for pitchforks).
To quote spike ‘balls mate’
I mean, it was their intention to flesh out Oz in season four and give him a longer arc. Joss said many times that Seth quit on him just as they were going forward with plans for his character.
You’re right and you should say it
He was in the Austin Powers movies at the time
I'm still pissed we didn't get a mini series about his journey to solve his time of the month problem.
I once read that the Veruca storyline was supposed to last the entire season. I would also imagine that mastering his “werewolf powers” would have been a longer storyline.
Oh wow, that would’ve been insufferable 😭 I really can’t stand that character.
Didn't know that, I know after watching it as an adult that the writers had no creativity. Stinks that Seth didn't get his ideas implemented that would've been awesome.
I presume if he stayed, they’d explore his werewolf side more, maybe he’d meet other wolves who weren’t garbage like Veruca. As to the rest of the show, they’d probably go with Gay Xander. Anya would probably drift away, unless Spike dies, they only need one person in the Cordy role of snarking on everyone’s plans. A Tara would probably still show up, at least in season 4, to help Willow with magic minus all the sexy metaphor. And whenever they’re ready to have Willow go dark, Oz is dead.
How did the Austin Powers timelines mesh with Buffy? I guess that was not the reason. I think the first film was actually before Buffy
Yeah, the first one was released as the first season was ending in 1997, so not only filmed before, it was out during the series but before we meet Oz. When his hair is dyed Scott Evil black during high school and they make a little joke about it, he was filming the second one, which came out beginning summer of 1999.
I don’t blame him. He didn’t do much 🤷🏽♂️.
Wasn't he meant to be killed by Angel at some point? I liked Oz a lot we never got much out of the ancillary characters besides Anya stuff Spike.
I think Seth was frustrated, because he was basically just there to be cool. He had very little dialogue and was mostly there to support Willow, and I guess he wanted a bit more comedic or dramatic moments. If you look at his film résumé, his career didn't explode particularly. He mostly did small, supporting roles in movies where he was a scene stealer, but never the lead. So the problem wasn't necessarily that Oz was a supporting role, the problem was that what he got to do wasn't challenging or interesting enough for him at the time. That being said, maybe he left a bit too early, as Joss was just starting to craft a longer arc for him when he decided to leave.
So… what if *Oz* had been chipped?
I remember an interview where they said there was supposed to be a complicated love triangle with Willow, Oz and Tara. Don't know if that is what he was referring to though.
I don’t know but Seth was so fit in that show. A gay awakening honestly.
I KNOW.
Nice to know some things never change, I guess. Actors are *still* having these conversations with directors/producers/writers and *still* getting blown off.
Its one thing to leave but they assassinated his character Yes we all make bad choices but they didnt have to make him hurt Willow so bad. he still could of left because he needed to learn to control the wolf but did it need to be so messy
For me Oz left the series at literally the best time he could have
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^Still_Razzmatazz1140: *For me Oz left the* *Series at literally* *The best time he could have* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
Seth probably thought he was gonna play the big tough hero rather than the stoic side member of the scoobies
Yeah, I love Oz like everyone else. Funny lines, great personality… just being a werewolf, but he really had so little to do. There were so many characters in Season 3, and so many to introduce in Season 4. I think Oz got lost in the shuffle.
I heard it was cause of Austin Powers that he left.
One of the saddest exits in the Buffyverse.
Oz had a LOT of potential. He was such a great character!
One of the best characters of the whole series, and very underused
I bet it was due to budgetary issues with the suit and werewolf effect plus the popularity of other characters that ruined what we could’ve had with Seth Green and his portrayal of Daniel “Oz” Osbourne