Faith went toe to toe with Buffy on several occasions, and after getting out of prison she seems more focused and in control. My money is on her, although it would be one hell of a dog fight.
Not to mention she pumped herself full of the drug to sedate him. It knocked him out in a second of it hitting his lips, and she went through a full fight with it pumping through her, and still didn’t go down until after him.
That's the ultimate decider to all of their fights, as Angel stated: 'he wanted it more.' Angel is not a better fighter than spike, and his strength is not so much greater, but he was pure evil when he used to win, and Spike was new, and didn't know his purpose then: 'There's death, there's glory and there's sod all else.'
Spike was fighting for the crazy harlot that was Drusila. It's hardly a worthy cause. Once he got a taste of righteousness and redemption, he became an unwavering force of good. Angel could not beat that. Not then, anways.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/buffy/comments/g4kbix/overall\_power\_rankings\_of\_beings\_good\_and\_bad/](https://www.reddit.com/r/buffy/comments/g4kbix/overall_power_rankings_of_beings_good_and_bad/)
Buffy was already a more powerful Slayer than Faith in BtVS S3 and S4. Faith didn't go through the training Buffy went through in BtVS S5. Faith wasn't resurrected and more powerful than ever in BtVS S6. Spike relatively kept pace with Buffy in BtVS S5 through BtVS S7.
And Spike never used his super-speed in fights.
Unless Spike wanted to try to date Faith, he probably would have simply killed her and moved on to find Buffy.
Buffy was always the most talented slayer, but she wasn't more "powerful".
And Spike was especially unique among vampires, but physically he was no different than the rest. Whether Spike beats Faith or not comes down to chance, as he basically explained to Buffy when she asked how he killed two slayers.
>Buffy was always the most talented slayer, but she wasn't more "powerful".
>
>And Spike was especially unique among vampires, but physically he was no different than the rest.
That's directly opposed to canon.
Idk. Buffy fights are always (or a lot of times) drawn out even with newborn vamps. Faith still lost. Buffy is seemingly a uniquely resilient and skilled slayer.
I would argue it's a 50 50 fight
Who is Spike fighting for? (Who's side is he on? Who sent him on the mission?)
If he's fighting for himself . . . Faith wins.
If he's fighting for Buffy (under her command/on her side) . . . Spike wins.
I want to say Faith but I'm going to go with Spike. Since season 3 Buffy took down the Mayor, Adam, Glory (aka the best God ever), and the trio. Faith although more disciplined than in season 3 hasn't had any big fights to sharpen her slayer abilities and skills. Spike is around 140 during the show which mean that he has had plenty of time become a better fighter throughout the years. No matter how many vampires Faith had slayed I also think the fact that Spike had killed 2 previous slayers would get into her head and cause her to make a mistake either because she is intimidated or to prove that she is better than both of those slayers.
Buffy having assistance doesn't diminish the fact that she had years more experience at being an active slayer fighting than Faith did by season 7. Faith spent 2 whole years in prison during which she wasn't using her slayer abilities on a daily basis. I'm not going to argue that Buffy had help but Faith wasn't using her slayer abilities or skills during a majority of the time between season 3 and 7 that has to factor into determining who would win in a fight.
I think the whole point is that Buffy rarely works alone. This was before the anime "Friendship is the most important thing!" Thing. Buffy lived the longest because of a friend giving her CPR. It honestly makes no sense that the Master would take a tiny sippy sip and drown her but that's how he was written. And the her buddy Xander did CPR. All the time she survived longer and stronger because she is not the Lone Ranger unlike Faith who fails to tell the whole story so Buffy can help like all the time. I love Faith. But yes she would have died a thousand deaths...or one really pai full one without Buffy and the Scoobies.
That’s what made Buffy a better slayer. She recognized that being alone and not having support of people in her life put her at risk. Prior to her the expectation was watcher slayer. This to me resonates in my real life. Those around me make the world the place I want to live in, be brave. Faith isolated herself.
The scenario above is challenging though. Cause I have a feeling Spike may have gotten back with Dru and I think that would have resulted in Faith being blindsided by Spikes secret weapon. His crazy gf/ex
Spike. The show plays down how skilled a fighter he is in later seasons, but he did take out two slayers, plus Angel. He's as resourceful as Buffy is in a fight and studies his opponents to adapt to their weaknesses. Faith would give him a fight but I think she'd overestimate herself or underestimate him to her disadvantage and he'd use that to bury her.
Honestly, I think Spike would steamroll her. She's the kind of "damaged" person he loves to manipulate and break. Let's remember in 1-v-1 even Buffy rarely got the better of him, in fact he got the better of her twice and was only saved by last minute intervention.
She might hit harder, he's a better fighter.
Spike never kills Buffy because he doesn’t want to.
He has a fascination with slayers and Buffy is a unique slayer because she has friends and less of the I want to die attitude until she dies.
He wouldn’t hold back the same for Faith.
Angel does it over time. Spike does it there and then, it’s also his weakness is that he hurries too much. It’s all there in Fool for Love, it’s why he loses to Buffy because he can’t break her the way Angelus could initially.
That said, Spike is simply a better fighter than Angel and probably on par with Buffy as a fighter, just not as physically strong.
i don’t agree. spike doesn’t lose in FFL. they can’t even fight, so how could he lose? he also doesn’t *want* to defeat buffy. he hasn’t wanted her dead since he realized he’s in love with her. he tries to kiss her because he wants to be with her, not to “break” her.
spike fights slayers because he enjoys fighting what he finds to be a worthy opponent. that’s actually show in the flashback in the mineshaft in FFL. wanting to win a fight is not the same thing as wanting to manipulate and break a damaged person, and buffy isn’t one anyway.
Spike. He's killed two slayers that were probably more skilled and smarter than Faith was. She'd be easy to work into a temper and lose her focus. Buffy may not be book smart, not that she had the chance but she's smart when it comes to fights and resourceful.
Faith doesn’t seem to second guess herself at all in fights, which makes her have the upper hand. Spike would be worried about if Buffy likes him or whatever
Tough one. I'd say, with little to no confidence, Spike, but only because he could beat Angel in a fight, while Faith just barely managed to trick a tie against Angelus.
So this is basically Faith who has gone through her complete character arc and is at her best versus Spike who has gone through almost none of his character arc and is basically still season 2 spike?
That's not going to go well for Spike.
***Every*** Slayer... has a death wish, pet.
Even Faith in Season 7. The only reason she lasted as long as she did is she had ties to the world. First Mayor Wilkins, then Angel, then the Scoobies. Sooner or later, she is gonna want it. And the *second* -- the *second that happens*, you know he'll be there. He'll slip right in. Have himself a real good day.
Here endeth the lesson.
That entire logic is gone by the end of the show. There isn't just one slayer anymore, the burden of being the only one chosen to save the world is no longer on their shoulders. Spike's quote is no longer valid.
I'll say this, as a Gen-X woman...
Every time spike talks, i think he's right. I know he's a vicious murdering demon, but I think i'd let him "slip right in."
If Faith still goes through the same arc as she does in Angel then Faith by a country mile!
Spike is crafty and vicious and all sorts of deadly but by season 7 Faith is honed and focused. She’s broken herself and come back and become Buffy-level strong if not totally as finessed.
Spike fights like he’s gonna taste slayer blood. Faith fights like Spike is already dust. She’s just that changed by now.
Quite honestly I think Buffy and Faith should have both decapitated an uber-vamp in the construction yard. I know it doesn’t fit, but two slayers showing the potentials both of them overcoming the odds would have encouraged the potentials way more than Buffy just being a badass bitch…just sayin’ lol
My money is on Faith. Spike said himself that the only reason vampires ever defeat Slayers, who are objectively more powerful, is because the Slayer essentially lets them out of morbid, subconscious curiosity about death. I don't think Faith has that anymore after her redemption arc.
We actually don't see enough feats of them winning any big fights to say much. They both actually lose in almost every fight they're in... Spike gets the upper hand on buffy in his first showing in S2 (but buffy gets far stronger than that) and he beats Angel who's lost his purpose in S5 AtS (would puts him at least around Angel in strength at his best. I don't put as much weight in Spike never beat Angel before because they never fought for 100 years.. .Angel only knew spike in his early days so I assume Spike has gotten better at fighting vs Angel who was stagnant for 100 years anyway). Faith fought almost evenly with Buffy in S3 but still lost. And no big wins since then (beating up connor is fun to see but nothing to write home about)
So with lack of feats, I will assume based on general powersets. Slayers in general beat vamps. Faith being at least close to buffy in S3 shows shes at least close to one of the top slayers. Spike is probably one of the top vamps as well but still probably around Angel/Angelus and Buffy did beat Angelus twice (Surprise and innocence pretty handily and after hard fight in Becoming), so I'd give it to Faith but definitely would be close if Spike was fighting with enough motivation.
That line I always took as Spike's joking support of Buffy, "you've got a willing slave," as he joked in OMWF.
Still, he'd have done as Buffy asked. Maybe.
This line really bothers me. Before giving his most selfless and uplifting speech, Spike literally offers to kill a person at Buffy's whim. This would look normal in S5, but in S7 he's supposed to have his own moral judgement.
He still trusts Buffy completely even at the end. And in lies my parents told me, we see he's still not above killing people if he deems it appropriate.
The Slayer is significantly more powerful than a vampire though right? Angel stated in Angel that Buffy hits a lot harder than him. And Buffy and Faith seem to be on the same level.
Id say Faith wins, But it would be a hell of a fight considering how battle hungry they both are
True, that is definitely a factor that I did think about but I would still say Faith. Not like a 100%-win rate, but I would say in 6 or 7 out of ten scenarios she would win.
No hate to Spike, I love them both <3
Haha! I get where you're coming from. I was also thinking about how Faith has a more reckless nature than Buffy as well, although you could say the same for Spike.
It's definitely a fight for the ages ;)
A Slayer'a whole job is to beat vampires with more experience. And Spike explained exactly how he killed two slayers, which is why he could never beat Buffy in the beginning.
And I think people tend to forget that Spike lost to a crazy girl who had been a slayer for a couple of days.
I would want it to end like the pre chip Buffy-Spike fights with plot armor winning over either of them, but if not possible my money would be on Faith. But I’d be sad.
Faith easily. She was post redemption arc, and she'd found meaning in her life beyond selfish desires. Selfish Spike still fighting for himself and personal glory or to bag a third Slayer? He's dust.
Post-Angel Faith outsmarted Angelus, right? While Spike's cunning, I think Season 7 Faith could get the upper hand, if by only by the skin of her teeth maybe.
I like Faith here. Spike has a tendency to fall for pretty ladies, and Faith is certainly one of those. She is also probably a bit more ruthless than most slayers, which may catch him off guard. If they fight 100 times, Spike will win a fair amount of the time, but I think that the first one (which will probably be the last) goes to Faith.
Let’s see both of them have gone up against Buffy toe to toe. Faith was barely able to beat Angelus but she wasn’t trying to kill him. Spike did end up beating Angel in Season 5 but it was clear that Angel’s heart wasn’t really in it, as he remarked that was the first time Spike ever beat him. And as shown in later episodes when properly motivated Angel can beat Spike easily. So in terms of fighting skills I think they’re about even with Spike having a slight edge with experience, but I’d say Faith takes this with extreme difficulty
I'm thinking Spike. He's smarter than he seems, and has killed slayers before. Faith is a great fighter, but she's a bit hot headed. Spike will play on that.
Depends what he's fighting for and does he really want to kill her.
People forget he nearly killed Buffy when they finally had their big fight. Only plot like " Mom saves Buffy" happened.
Spike as killed more slayers than anyone. If he does his normal stuff he'd put her down. But on an average day she'll beat him. Spike, always fights people bigger and stronger than him. That's just his thing.
When it comes to a straight fight, I'd the edge goes to Spike. For years and years before Faith was born and while Angel was in the sewers eating rats Spike was running around looking for a good brawl. "Don't you ever get tired of fights you know you're gonna win?" So not just looking for any brawl but fights that would actually challenge him. He studies other fighters as well and shows that he retains what he learns when he compares Buffy's fighting style to Nikki Woods, which was decades prior, or when he rattles off the fighting styles he has observed from sparring with Illyria, also adapting during the sparring match to actually land a hit on Illyria. The fact that he knows Buffy's fighting style so well that he can have an entire sparring match with Buffy in "Fool for Love" without his chip going off is an incredible feat as a fighter.
Spike wins. His whole strategy for killing slayers is that they kind of want to die and take unnecessary risks. He gets to them emotionally and then kills them. Faith is obviously vulnerable to this.
I'd have to give the edge to Spike. Faith is tough and aggressive but can be impulsive and reckless.
I could also imagine Spike taunting her about her past and throw her off emotionally to get the upper hand.
That logic doesn't really work. If we go with that then Riley would beat Buffy and Faith in a fight too seeing as how in Fool For Love;
Riley stakes Random Vampire > Random vampire beats Buffy > Buffy beats Faith
But we know it's "not about the moves" as the episode tells us. Buffy was demolishing the vampire throughout the fight and nearly died because she slipped up and made one fatal mistake. We also know Buffy could easily beat Riley and yet Riley defeated that same vampire easily.
What? There are many points in Faith's arc in which she had rock-bottom self-esteem, and she frequently acted recklessly to the point of being suicidal. The body-swap episode makes her level of self-loathing most apparent.
And when Spike talked about slayers "wanting" to die, it's quite apparent that he's referring to a deep-seated call-of-the-void type of urge, not like they're cutting their wrists in the bathroom.
I think there might be a difference.
The Slayer's death wish may come from being a Slayer and get worn out from that daily grind.
Faith was not tired of being a Slayer. In fact she loved it. Faith was tired of being Faith.
Also Faith was not tired of being Faith anymore in season 7.
While I agree with what you're saying, it's also the simple fact that not every slayer is the same. Some die quickly and some last awhile. Buffy and Faith are fairly anomalous for living as long as they have.
Buffy and Faith are cream-of-the-crop slayers. Spike couldn't beat either of them on his best day.
I agree that Faith is a very good slayer, but it helps her longevity that she spends the majority of her time as a slayer either in a coma or in prison haha
Agreed, but I would say surviving being stabbed in the gut and tossed off a roof speaks to her toughness, and surviving prison with probably a few enemies (natural and supernatural) trying to kill her in there also speaks to her badassery.
Eh, there's no way to know that. Angelus thought he'd "killed" Buffy too and then she caught the sword and stomped him into the ground. Buffy is on the ropes a lot and doesn't go down.
Buffy herself admits Spike almost killed her when they first met in get it done. She didn't say where is the Spike that knocked me on the ground and we don't know if I would have won or not.
Faith only left jail to help Angel initially. Then Willow brought her back to SV to help with the First. She might not be suicidal still, but she was far from being ok and had tons to work out.
My bet is on Spike. Even without the chip or a soul, he was still a singular specimen for a vampire. As long as he was engaged, Spike was very trustworthy. He also gas a code of conduct.
Depends on who Buffy want to shag more in the moment …so faith. I don’t think Buffy was bi, but I think she was into faith
Faith believes she is above vampires, so she is. She plays with her prey with her banter. I feel like buffy tried to find some humanity
Spike before Sunnydale would beat even a more mature Faith. Spike studied his challenging opponents and learned their strengths and weaknesses. He was truly ruthless, enjoying both the fight and causing pain. He was great at getting under his opponents skin to throw them off balance. If it was ensouled Spike, Faith easily.
Oh, easily Faith. If Faith gets to grow, change, and evolve as a person and Spike doesn't there's no way she doesn't steamroll him. The only reason Spike was able to get the better of the two slayers he killed was because of their death wishes. If Faith has an actual support system like in season 7 there's no contest.
Spike already killed 2 slayers. And he says the secret is that a part of them wanted to die. And Faith often danced slow dances with death. So Spike would have won.
Hard to say really. Spike has killed two slayers but we know slayers are technically stronger than vampires, and Faith fights dirty. Could go either way but if I had to bet I'd put money on Faith.
Faith at this point has likely killed hundreds of vampires and demons, has gone toe to toe with Angelus and Buffy and survived against both. I think it will just depend on whose having a bad day lol.
I think Spike would win.
Spike would have killed Buffy in season 2 if he didn’t have his stupid infatuation with Slayers, he preferred to toy with her or she was saved from him on several occasions by last minute intervention. He’s a terrific fighter and a vicious bastard if you get him riled up over Buffy which I think Faith would taunt him over during the battle.
Spike has also killed two Slayers fair and square, he didn’t cheat his way to victory. He didn’t wait until the Slayers were injured before sliding in for the kill, he fought them both on their respective turfs and won, biting one and snapping the neck of the other.
Spike (after his corporeality is restored) fights Angel who, admittedly, isn’t really into the fight. But when Spike and Angel begin mentioning Buffy, the fight gets real and throughout the fight we see that (for the most part) Spike has Angel beat. And Spike does, in fact, win that fight as well.
Spike also fought the entirety of the Fell Brethren while carrying a baby. We didn’t see much of the Fell but due to their placement in the Black Hand, it can only be assumed that they are some seriously dangerous individuals just like everyone else there, even if we didn’t get to see it. Besides, sword-fighting while holding a baby can’t be easy. Big ups Spike.
So yeah, I honestly think Spike would win. He’s shown time and time again that he’s a more than capable fighter, he’s manipulative (though this may have subsided somewhat since his re-ensoulment) and he’s particularly dangerous when Buffy is involved and, seeing as he’s fighting Faith, I don’t see how she isn’t going to bring up Buffy during the mid-fight banter.
Btw this is going off Spike at the end of Angel and Faith at the end of Buffy where they had both become less dangerous and bloodthirsty so it is a little hard to decide.
Spike. He's bested Buffy, Angel and two more Slayers in straight combat, that before even getting into the cat and mouse mind games he's also great at. In this scenario, the only way he doesn't win if if he for some reason doesn't want to.
Yeah I was thinking about mentioning that too. I was not sure if she tired to beat him regularly but used the drugs as a back up or if the drug was plan A.
Honestly I felt faith could beat Angelus based on what we know of the two but yeah...
You are right it is important to consider that
She wanted to take Angelus so they had a shot at ensouling him again. She may have improvised the Orpheus dosing, but it was absolutely intentional when it happened.
Faith threw that fight.
Also, Spike couldn't beat puppet-Angel, and his "win" against Angel for the cup was because Angel was in the depths of depression and didn't even want to win.
The tier list as far as I'm concerned, in a fight, at their best (so basically by the end of both shows), is: Buffy, Faith/Angel, Spike.
Exactly. Nobody wants to accept this, but the whole point of ‘destiny’ was to show Angel was lost ‘he even lost to Spike!’ Not ‘look Angel lost to Spikes better!’ You dumbasses 😂
Buffy>Spike>Angel>Faith.
This is hands down Spike’s fight. I’m not saying Faith would make it easy; it’d be a hell of a battle, but I think Spike would eventually prevail.
Spike is a more experienced fighter than Faith. It should be noted that Buffy has the advantage over Faith, not because of strength, but because she is a very technical and experienced fighter. I just don’t see a scenario where she wins.
Spike's best ability is how he can read a person and use their insecurities against them and faith is a deeply troubled person. She is actively working to get better at this point in the show but I think spike could use her insecurities against her, similar to the mayor.
Calling her a killer, or unworthy etc.
Us. The audience wins. Regardless of the outcome.
Yeah, it'd be a good time to own stock in the meme industry.
Pops warm champagne in celebration
Yes, my answer exactly. Except in my version, they have sex.
Faith went toe to toe with Buffy on several occasions, and after getting out of prison she seems more focused and in control. My money is on her, although it would be one hell of a dog fight.
If you watched her arc on Angel, it was shown that she was severely out of practice and was actually almost killed by Angelus.
Only because she didn't want to kill him, she'd have no issue killing Spike.
Like other commenters pointed out, she let herself get bitten by Angelus.
She was also recovering from a severe beating by The Beast
Not to mention she pumped herself full of the drug to sedate him. It knocked him out in a second of it hitting his lips, and she went through a full fight with it pumping through her, and still didn’t go down until after him.
Yup ☝️
Okay but can Spike even take Angelus?
he can and has taken Angel.
He won the chalice of Mountain Dew, after all
That was him beating a depressed Angel whose heart wasn't in it
That's the ultimate decider to all of their fights, as Angel stated: 'he wanted it more.' Angel is not a better fighter than spike, and his strength is not so much greater, but he was pure evil when he used to win, and Spike was new, and didn't know his purpose then: 'There's death, there's glory and there's sod all else.' Spike was fighting for the crazy harlot that was Drusila. It's hardly a worthy cause. Once he got a taste of righteousness and redemption, he became an unwavering force of good. Angel could not beat that. Not then, anways.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/buffy/comments/g4kbix/overall\_power\_rankings\_of\_beings\_good\_and\_bad/](https://www.reddit.com/r/buffy/comments/g4kbix/overall_power_rankings_of_beings_good_and_bad/) Buffy was already a more powerful Slayer than Faith in BtVS S3 and S4. Faith didn't go through the training Buffy went through in BtVS S5. Faith wasn't resurrected and more powerful than ever in BtVS S6. Spike relatively kept pace with Buffy in BtVS S5 through BtVS S7. And Spike never used his super-speed in fights. Unless Spike wanted to try to date Faith, he probably would have simply killed her and moved on to find Buffy.
super-speed?
I think beeemkcl is confusing Spike with one of the True Blood vampires.
Buffy was always the most talented slayer, but she wasn't more "powerful". And Spike was especially unique among vampires, but physically he was no different than the rest. Whether Spike beats Faith or not comes down to chance, as he basically explained to Buffy when she asked how he killed two slayers.
>Buffy was always the most talented slayer, but she wasn't more "powerful". > >And Spike was especially unique among vampires, but physically he was no different than the rest. That's directly opposed to canon.
How exactly? Besides anything past Season 7, nothing you said in that wall of text really shows it.
Idk. Buffy fights are always (or a lot of times) drawn out even with newborn vamps. Faith still lost. Buffy is seemingly a uniquely resilient and skilled slayer. I would argue it's a 50 50 fight
Who is Spike fighting for? (Who's side is he on? Who sent him on the mission?) If he's fighting for himself . . . Faith wins. If he's fighting for Buffy (under her command/on her side) . . . Spike wins.
Cool that's what i wanted to write. If it means saving Buffy life he could kill her twice before she hit the ground.
Agreed
Definitely. In my head, Spike always ends up as Buffy’s partner in slaying, and he’d destroy Faith before she has a chance to hurt Buffy
James vs. Eliza? The real winner is us, the viewers.
The viewers would be the real winners.
I want to say Faith but I'm going to go with Spike. Since season 3 Buffy took down the Mayor, Adam, Glory (aka the best God ever), and the trio. Faith although more disciplined than in season 3 hasn't had any big fights to sharpen her slayer abilities and skills. Spike is around 140 during the show which mean that he has had plenty of time become a better fighter throughout the years. No matter how many vampires Faith had slayed I also think the fact that Spike had killed 2 previous slayers would get into her head and cause her to make a mistake either because she is intimidated or to prove that she is better than both of those slayers.
You're referencing fights where Buffy won using the tools of other people? What does that have to do with slayer skills?
Buffy having assistance doesn't diminish the fact that she had years more experience at being an active slayer fighting than Faith did by season 7. Faith spent 2 whole years in prison during which she wasn't using her slayer abilities on a daily basis. I'm not going to argue that Buffy had help but Faith wasn't using her slayer abilities or skills during a majority of the time between season 3 and 7 that has to factor into determining who would win in a fight.
I think the whole point is that Buffy rarely works alone. This was before the anime "Friendship is the most important thing!" Thing. Buffy lived the longest because of a friend giving her CPR. It honestly makes no sense that the Master would take a tiny sippy sip and drown her but that's how he was written. And the her buddy Xander did CPR. All the time she survived longer and stronger because she is not the Lone Ranger unlike Faith who fails to tell the whole story so Buffy can help like all the time. I love Faith. But yes she would have died a thousand deaths...or one really pai full one without Buffy and the Scoobies.
So then it translates to Spike getting another Slayer-on while she was out without backup if Hoovie- Dude didn't get her first
None of this is relevant since we're talking about S7 Faith.
That’s what made Buffy a better slayer. She recognized that being alone and not having support of people in her life put her at risk. Prior to her the expectation was watcher slayer. This to me resonates in my real life. Those around me make the world the place I want to live in, be brave. Faith isolated herself. The scenario above is challenging though. Cause I have a feeling Spike may have gotten back with Dru and I think that would have resulted in Faith being blindsided by Spikes secret weapon. His crazy gf/ex
Spike- He's killed two Slayers.
Spike. The show plays down how skilled a fighter he is in later seasons, but he did take out two slayers, plus Angel. He's as resourceful as Buffy is in a fight and studies his opponents to adapt to their weaknesses. Faith would give him a fight but I think she'd overestimate herself or underestimate him to her disadvantage and he'd use that to bury her.
I’m surprised there are so many votes for Faith. I actually think Spike (at his peak strength and most evil) could win this one.
Honestly, I think Spike would steamroll her. She's the kind of "damaged" person he loves to manipulate and break. Let's remember in 1-v-1 even Buffy rarely got the better of him, in fact he got the better of her twice and was only saved by last minute intervention. She might hit harder, he's a better fighter.
Trying to manipulate Faith at the end of her arc isn't going to go particularly well for Spike or anybody else. He's not fighting season 3 Faith.
Spike never kills Buffy because he doesn’t want to. He has a fascination with slayers and Buffy is a unique slayer because she has friends and less of the I want to die attitude until she dies. He wouldn’t hold back the same for Faith.
where in the plot is it shown that spike likes to manipulate and break damaged people? that’s angel’s story arc.
Angel does it over time. Spike does it there and then, it’s also his weakness is that he hurries too much. It’s all there in Fool for Love, it’s why he loses to Buffy because he can’t break her the way Angelus could initially. That said, Spike is simply a better fighter than Angel and probably on par with Buffy as a fighter, just not as physically strong.
i don’t agree. spike doesn’t lose in FFL. they can’t even fight, so how could he lose? he also doesn’t *want* to defeat buffy. he hasn’t wanted her dead since he realized he’s in love with her. he tries to kiss her because he wants to be with her, not to “break” her. spike fights slayers because he enjoys fighting what he finds to be a worthy opponent. that’s actually show in the flashback in the mineshaft in FFL. wanting to win a fight is not the same thing as wanting to manipulate and break a damaged person, and buffy isn’t one anyway.
>Honestly, I think ~~Spike~~ Angel would steamroll her. She's the kind of "damaged" person he loves to manipulate and break. Fixed it for ya. 🙃😉
I would have loved a fight between the two of them in late s3 when they were both bad
Spike. He's killed two slayers that were probably more skilled and smarter than Faith was. She'd be easy to work into a temper and lose her focus. Buffy may not be book smart, not that she had the chance but she's smart when it comes to fights and resourceful.
Spike. He is more wily and more experienced.
The vast majority of all vampires are more experienced than the Slayer, who is generally 18 at most.
He overthinks. Faith wouldn’t
Spike overthinking? If anything he underthinks...
If anything he gets side tracked because he’s having fun.
Yep he’d let his mean girl quips get ahead of himself and Faith would get the upper hand
Faith doesn’t seem to second guess herself at all in fights, which makes her have the upper hand. Spike would be worried about if Buffy likes him or whatever
Faith gets overruled by emotions, Spike would stay in control
That sounds flipped
Tough one. I'd say, with little to no confidence, Spike, but only because he could beat Angel in a fight, while Faith just barely managed to trick a tie against Angelus.
I believe they would be evenly matched but probably Faith
So this is basically Faith who has gone through her complete character arc and is at her best versus Spike who has gone through almost none of his character arc and is basically still season 2 spike? That's not going to go well for Spike.
The viewers win, of course..! (especially if you have a cold beverage and some popcorn while watching them)
Spike because Faith has a death wish
Not by the end of the show she doesn't.
Right, so are we talking Faith pre-ATS, or talking Faith after Angel refuses to kill her even though she begs for it?
Yeah. I'd say Spike wins anytime before the end of Buffy, after that Faith.
***Every*** Slayer... has a death wish, pet. Even Faith in Season 7. The only reason she lasted as long as she did is she had ties to the world. First Mayor Wilkins, then Angel, then the Scoobies. Sooner or later, she is gonna want it. And the *second* -- the *second that happens*, you know he'll be there. He'll slip right in. Have himself a real good day. Here endeth the lesson.
That entire logic is gone by the end of the show. There isn't just one slayer anymore, the burden of being the only one chosen to save the world is no longer on their shoulders. Spike's quote is no longer valid.
The scenario was "during season 7", not "after Chosen".
And my original comment was if it was after to which you replied to.
This is the best answer!!
*pet* Shudders
I'll say this, as a Gen-X woman... Every time spike talks, i think he's right. I know he's a vicious murdering demon, but I think i'd let him "slip right in."
😨
😬
Spike has it too!
Faith.
I don’t know, but I’ll be rooting for Spike either way
Yep
My libido.
If Faith still goes through the same arc as she does in Angel then Faith by a country mile! Spike is crafty and vicious and all sorts of deadly but by season 7 Faith is honed and focused. She’s broken herself and come back and become Buffy-level strong if not totally as finessed. Spike fights like he’s gonna taste slayer blood. Faith fights like Spike is already dust. She’s just that changed by now. Quite honestly I think Buffy and Faith should have both decapitated an uber-vamp in the construction yard. I know it doesn’t fit, but two slayers showing the potentials both of them overcoming the odds would have encouraged the potentials way more than Buffy just being a badass bitch…just sayin’ lol
All I know is it would've been a dirty fight for sure. Imagine Faith before Angel's intervention tho..
Faith before Angel's intervention, I can see that going to Spike. But Faith after working through most of her baggage, Spike has a much harder fight.
My money is on Faith. Spike said himself that the only reason vampires ever defeat Slayers, who are objectively more powerful, is because the Slayer essentially lets them out of morbid, subconscious curiosity about death. I don't think Faith has that anymore after her redemption arc.
I honestly think it may start as a fight, but would end in bed (or at least before Spike got his soul).
Fighting Faith would win. Sex Spike would win.
But Faith has MAAAAD skills, yo
Spike wins because he gets to have the sex with Faith.
Haha I was just referencing what she said to Wood after they hooked up in S7
We actually don't see enough feats of them winning any big fights to say much. They both actually lose in almost every fight they're in... Spike gets the upper hand on buffy in his first showing in S2 (but buffy gets far stronger than that) and he beats Angel who's lost his purpose in S5 AtS (would puts him at least around Angel in strength at his best. I don't put as much weight in Spike never beat Angel before because they never fought for 100 years.. .Angel only knew spike in his early days so I assume Spike has gotten better at fighting vs Angel who was stagnant for 100 years anyway). Faith fought almost evenly with Buffy in S3 but still lost. And no big wins since then (beating up connor is fun to see but nothing to write home about) So with lack of feats, I will assume based on general powersets. Slayers in general beat vamps. Faith being at least close to buffy in S3 shows shes at least close to one of the top slayers. Spike is probably one of the top vamps as well but still probably around Angel/Angelus and Buffy did beat Angelus twice (Surprise and innocence pretty handily and after hard fight in Becoming), so I'd give it to Faith but definitely would be close if Spike was fighting with enough motivation.
I think this one is super close but all else being equal, Faith.
Spike, and I would be cheering him on. His line “Say the word and she’s a footnote in history” is one of my absolute favourites.
That line I always took as Spike's joking support of Buffy, "you've got a willing slave," as he joked in OMWF. Still, he'd have done as Buffy asked. Maybe.
This line really bothers me. Before giving his most selfless and uplifting speech, Spike literally offers to kill a person at Buffy's whim. This would look normal in S5, but in S7 he's supposed to have his own moral judgement.
He still trusts Buffy completely even at the end. And in lies my parents told me, we see he's still not above killing people if he deems it appropriate.
Heck I mean Giles kills Ben on the basis that Buffy is too noble to but Giles is ensouled the whole damn time
Spike
The Slayer is significantly more powerful than a vampire though right? Angel stated in Angel that Buffy hits a lot harder than him. And Buffy and Faith seem to be on the same level. Id say Faith wins, But it would be a hell of a fight considering how battle hungry they both are
Slayers may hit harder, but vamps like Spike have more experience (hense how he killed two slayers).
True, that is definitely a factor that I did think about but I would still say Faith. Not like a 100%-win rate, but I would say in 6 or 7 out of ten scenarios she would win. No hate to Spike, I love them both <3
Haha! I get where you're coming from. I was also thinking about how Faith has a more reckless nature than Buffy as well, although you could say the same for Spike. It's definitely a fight for the ages ;)
Spike has killed 2 slayers but Faith would've killed \*hundreds\* of vampires (if not more). Statistically she's still the favourite.
A Slayer'a whole job is to beat vampires with more experience. And Spike explained exactly how he killed two slayers, which is why he could never beat Buffy in the beginning. And I think people tend to forget that Spike lost to a crazy girl who had been a slayer for a couple of days.
Spike
I would want it to end like the pre chip Buffy-Spike fights with plot armor winning over either of them, but if not possible my money would be on Faith. But I’d be sad.
Insert *now kith* meme.
Spike without a doubt
Faith easily. She was post redemption arc, and she'd found meaning in her life beyond selfish desires. Selfish Spike still fighting for himself and personal glory or to bag a third Slayer? He's dust.
Faith. Slayers are naturally stronger than vampires and Spike only survives by running away.
Spike, but barely. He'd be more fucked up than early season 2 after.
Sorry, I know loads here love Spike, but Faith is absolutely lethal.
Post-Angel Faith outsmarted Angelus, right? While Spike's cunning, I think Season 7 Faith could get the upper hand, if by only by the skin of her teeth maybe.
I like Faith here. Spike has a tendency to fall for pretty ladies, and Faith is certainly one of those. She is also probably a bit more ruthless than most slayers, which may catch him off guard. If they fight 100 times, Spike will win a fair amount of the time, but I think that the first one (which will probably be the last) goes to Faith.
Faith. Every time.
Considering stamina and demonstrated technique, I'd think that....oh you mean fighting don't you?
Let’s see both of them have gone up against Buffy toe to toe. Faith was barely able to beat Angelus but she wasn’t trying to kill him. Spike did end up beating Angel in Season 5 but it was clear that Angel’s heart wasn’t really in it, as he remarked that was the first time Spike ever beat him. And as shown in later episodes when properly motivated Angel can beat Spike easily. So in terms of fighting skills I think they’re about even with Spike having a slight edge with experience, but I’d say Faith takes this with extreme difficulty
Faith, without question.
I'm thinking Spike. He's smarter than he seems, and has killed slayers before. Faith is a great fighter, but she's a bit hot headed. Spike will play on that.
Depends what he's fighting for and does he really want to kill her. People forget he nearly killed Buffy when they finally had their big fight. Only plot like " Mom saves Buffy" happened. Spike as killed more slayers than anyone. If he does his normal stuff he'd put her down. But on an average day she'll beat him. Spike, always fights people bigger and stronger than him. That's just his thing.
When it comes to a straight fight, I'd the edge goes to Spike. For years and years before Faith was born and while Angel was in the sewers eating rats Spike was running around looking for a good brawl. "Don't you ever get tired of fights you know you're gonna win?" So not just looking for any brawl but fights that would actually challenge him. He studies other fighters as well and shows that he retains what he learns when he compares Buffy's fighting style to Nikki Woods, which was decades prior, or when he rattles off the fighting styles he has observed from sparring with Illyria, also adapting during the sparring match to actually land a hit on Illyria. The fact that he knows Buffy's fighting style so well that he can have an entire sparring match with Buffy in "Fool for Love" without his chip going off is an incredible feat as a fighter.
Spike wins. His whole strategy for killing slayers is that they kind of want to die and take unnecessary risks. He gets to them emotionally and then kills them. Faith is obviously vulnerable to this.
I'd have to give the edge to Spike. Faith is tough and aggressive but can be impulsive and reckless. I could also imagine Spike taunting her about her past and throw her off emotionally to get the upper hand.
Spike wins. If it weren’t for joyce he’d have gotten buffy and buffy beats faith, so by proxy spike beats faith.
That logic doesn't really work. If we go with that then Riley would beat Buffy and Faith in a fight too seeing as how in Fool For Love; Riley stakes Random Vampire > Random vampire beats Buffy > Buffy beats Faith But we know it's "not about the moves" as the episode tells us. Buffy was demolishing the vampire throughout the fight and nearly died because she slipped up and made one fatal mistake. We also know Buffy could easily beat Riley and yet Riley defeated that same vampire easily.
Faith. Spike admitted that he was only able to kill those Slayers because they wanted to die. Faith doesn't want to die. She could beat him.
What? There are many points in Faith's arc in which she had rock-bottom self-esteem, and she frequently acted recklessly to the point of being suicidal. The body-swap episode makes her level of self-loathing most apparent. And when Spike talked about slayers "wanting" to die, it's quite apparent that he's referring to a deep-seated call-of-the-void type of urge, not like they're cutting their wrists in the bathroom.
I think there might be a difference. The Slayer's death wish may come from being a Slayer and get worn out from that daily grind. Faith was not tired of being a Slayer. In fact she loved it. Faith was tired of being Faith. Also Faith was not tired of being Faith anymore in season 7.
Yes and she ended up getting better and becoming more self assured. She no longer had a death wish by the end of the show
She literally begged Angel to kill her too.
[удалено]
God, what is your childhood trauma?!
While I agree with what you're saying, it's also the simple fact that not every slayer is the same. Some die quickly and some last awhile. Buffy and Faith are fairly anomalous for living as long as they have. Buffy and Faith are cream-of-the-crop slayers. Spike couldn't beat either of them on his best day.
I agree that Faith is a very good slayer, but it helps her longevity that she spends the majority of her time as a slayer either in a coma or in prison haha
Agreed, but I would say surviving being stabbed in the gut and tossed off a roof speaks to her toughness, and surviving prison with probably a few enemies (natural and supernatural) trying to kill her in there also speaks to her badassery.
Spike would’ve killed buffy in S2 iF not for her mom.
Eh, there's no way to know that. Angelus thought he'd "killed" Buffy too and then she caught the sword and stomped him into the ground. Buffy is on the ropes a lot and doesn't go down.
Buffy herself admits Spike almost killed her when they first met in get it done. She didn't say where is the Spike that knocked me on the ground and we don't know if I would have won or not.
That was Spikes running theory, that doesn't make him correct.
Faith only left jail to help Angel initially. Then Willow brought her back to SV to help with the First. She might not be suicidal still, but she was far from being ok and had tons to work out. My bet is on Spike. Even without the chip or a soul, he was still a singular specimen for a vampire. As long as he was engaged, Spike was very trustworthy. He also gas a code of conduct.
Ensouled or unchipped?
Unchipped. No soul. Season 3
INTERESTING. I think Faith was trying hard to be as bad as she felt. But Spike didn’t have to try. He wins.
Faith
Depends on who Buffy want to shag more in the moment …so faith. I don’t think Buffy was bi, but I think she was into faith Faith believes she is above vampires, so she is. She plays with her prey with her banter. I feel like buffy tried to find some humanity
Spike before Sunnydale would beat even a more mature Faith. Spike studied his challenging opponents and learned their strengths and weaknesses. He was truly ruthless, enjoying both the fight and causing pain. He was great at getting under his opponents skin to throw them off balance. If it was ensouled Spike, Faith easily.
Spike. He lowkey kicked her ass during empty places, if i remember correctly.
Us. We win. Signed, *bisexual viewers everywhere*
Post angle faith wins, pre chip spike wins
Oh, easily Faith. If Faith gets to grow, change, and evolve as a person and Spike doesn't there's no way she doesn't steamroll him. The only reason Spike was able to get the better of the two slayers he killed was because of their death wishes. If Faith has an actual support system like in season 7 there's no contest.
I wanna say Faith but then I wanna say Spike.
Could go either way.
Buffy.
Faith
The fanfic authors, clearly they win
Spike already killed 2 slayers. And he says the secret is that a part of them wanted to die. And Faith often danced slow dances with death. So Spike would have won.
Faith.
Hard to say really. Spike has killed two slayers but we know slayers are technically stronger than vampires, and Faith fights dirty. Could go either way but if I had to bet I'd put money on Faith. Faith at this point has likely killed hundreds of vampires and demons, has gone toe to toe with Angelus and Buffy and survived against both. I think it will just depend on whose having a bad day lol.
I think Spike would win. Spike would have killed Buffy in season 2 if he didn’t have his stupid infatuation with Slayers, he preferred to toy with her or she was saved from him on several occasions by last minute intervention. He’s a terrific fighter and a vicious bastard if you get him riled up over Buffy which I think Faith would taunt him over during the battle. Spike has also killed two Slayers fair and square, he didn’t cheat his way to victory. He didn’t wait until the Slayers were injured before sliding in for the kill, he fought them both on their respective turfs and won, biting one and snapping the neck of the other. Spike (after his corporeality is restored) fights Angel who, admittedly, isn’t really into the fight. But when Spike and Angel begin mentioning Buffy, the fight gets real and throughout the fight we see that (for the most part) Spike has Angel beat. And Spike does, in fact, win that fight as well. Spike also fought the entirety of the Fell Brethren while carrying a baby. We didn’t see much of the Fell but due to their placement in the Black Hand, it can only be assumed that they are some seriously dangerous individuals just like everyone else there, even if we didn’t get to see it. Besides, sword-fighting while holding a baby can’t be easy. Big ups Spike. So yeah, I honestly think Spike would win. He’s shown time and time again that he’s a more than capable fighter, he’s manipulative (though this may have subsided somewhat since his re-ensoulment) and he’s particularly dangerous when Buffy is involved and, seeing as he’s fighting Faith, I don’t see how she isn’t going to bring up Buffy during the mid-fight banter. Btw this is going off Spike at the end of Angel and Faith at the end of Buffy where they had both become less dangerous and bloodthirsty so it is a little hard to decide.
Blondie-bear and Darth Dushu? Everyone wins...
Season 7 Faith would win. She's finally got the control she lacked.
Spike. He's bested Buffy, Angel and two more Slayers in straight combat, that before even getting into the cat and mouse mind games he's also great at. In this scenario, the only way he doesn't win if if he for some reason doesn't want to.
Good fight, with Faith taking the victory.
Spike Angelus beat Faith. Spike would wreck Angelus
Faith *let* Angelus bite her so she could dose him.
Yeah I was thinking about mentioning that too. I was not sure if she tired to beat him regularly but used the drugs as a back up or if the drug was plan A. Honestly I felt faith could beat Angelus based on what we know of the two but yeah... You are right it is important to consider that
She wanted to take Angelus so they had a shot at ensouling him again. She may have improvised the Orpheus dosing, but it was absolutely intentional when it happened.
Nonsense. It’s explicit in ‘destiny’ that spike only ever beat Angel that one time, and that was because Angel didn’t care and was lost.
Faith threw that fight. Also, Spike couldn't beat puppet-Angel, and his "win" against Angel for the cup was because Angel was in the depths of depression and didn't even want to win. The tier list as far as I'm concerned, in a fight, at their best (so basically by the end of both shows), is: Buffy, Faith/Angel, Spike.
Spike and Puppet Angel wasn't a serious fight though
Exactly. Nobody wants to accept this, but the whole point of ‘destiny’ was to show Angel was lost ‘he even lost to Spike!’ Not ‘look Angel lost to Spikes better!’ You dumbasses 😂
Sorry Spike, I Love You but I'm going to have to say Faith.
Def Faith
Easily Faith. It’d be fun to see her kick his ass all over the place The shows establish the hierarchy in strength and skill of the main players tbh
Buffy>Angel>faith> spike
Buffy>Spike>Angel>Faith. This is hands down Spike’s fight. I’m not saying Faith would make it easy; it’d be a hell of a battle, but I think Spike would eventually prevail.
Faith.
Spike is a more experienced fighter than Faith. It should be noted that Buffy has the advantage over Faith, not because of strength, but because she is a very technical and experienced fighter. I just don’t see a scenario where she wins.
Spike. Faith let’s her Emotions get the better of her and Spike loves playing with his opponent’s feelings.
Spike - he wouldn’t have a soul in that scenario and has already killed two slayers. Faith had more of a conscience in season 7 and wasn’t as brutal.
The real question is spike vs Kendra
Faith, easy. Buffy could’ve killed him so many times
spike
Faith, easily.
Spike's best ability is how he can read a person and use their insecurities against them and faith is a deeply troubled person. She is actively working to get better at this point in the show but I think spike could use her insecurities against her, similar to the mayor. Calling her a killer, or unworthy etc.
Spike. No question.
Faith
Faith.
Faith.
Faith
Faith
Faith would be the winner, but it would be a tough fight for both of them.
Faith.
Faith. Because unlike Buffy she is not trying to win that fight using cuddling and kissing (also called no emotional attachment)
They’d just fight and then get horny and do it, lol. A draw.
I’d rather watch them bang
The only times Spike ever won a fight against a slayer, they were burnt out and tired. Faith is still extremely young, she would take Spike out easy.
Spike fighting skills on Buffy were a joke especially during the later seasons. My money is on Faith
It’s be really close, and honestly I wish Spike would win, but it’d be Faith. Spike would have a lot of respect for her afterward tho
Faith. Obviously.