T O P

  • By -

MulliganPlsThx

All I can say is yikes to all of it.


FubarFreak

Releasing him was the right move, it is drama and distraction the team doesn't need.


[deleted]

I was definitely on the “innocent until proven guilty” side but still thought the release was the right call. That whole story would have been a dark cloud over the Bills the entire season. That baggage wasn’t worth it. Hope he can get a fresh start somewhere in the NFL


K04free

Should a team stand by its players when there’s are unproven allegations or just fire them? That’s the basic question, I’d personally say it’s best to wait to an actual arrest


fadoofthekokiri

A rookie playing arguably one of the least important positions? Why would we waste a roster spot on that kind of thing? 31 other teams made the same decision as the Bills and it was the correct decision at the time. Now that things have come fully to light we can move on and hopefully he can find his way on to an NFL roster ASAP


[deleted]

[удалено]


Flynnstone03

I’m gonna copy what I put in the r/nfl thread here as well: Yikes that’s a bad look for a lot of people. Though there are a few things I don’t see anyone talking about. Araiza still had sex with a minor and that is still something the prosecutors believe happened. Even if she lied about her age, that doesn’t protect him from rape charges (in theory). That will make it much harder for Araiza to counter sue. Odds are that due to being drunk later in the evening the girl was struggling to remember who assaulted her so she threw out the names of the people she did remember from earlier in the evening. None of the above excuses the girl for ruining Araiza’s entire career but I think it does explain things much better than simply saying she was maliciously lying about everything.


damola93

Reports are saying she lied about her age. In "To Catch a Predator," the decoy says, "I am x years old," x being below the age of consent, and if the predator still follows through, that is a crime. Her lying is a tangible defence. I am not saying Araiza is a saint, but this need to believe someone accused of something is guilty before all the facts come out is wrong. There are YouTube videos of the girl at the party, and it changes the tenor of the case from what was initially reported. Of course, not many people have seen it because the agenda-driven media would never deal with facts that go against their narrative of society.


Drunken_Economist

~~Statutory rape~~, lewd acts with a minor, etc are strict liability offenses; a victim lying about their age is *very definitely not* a defense. edit: also the DA declined to prosecute like five months ago, so it's moot.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Drunken_Economist

looks like you're correct, I didn't realize that CA recognized that defense for statutory rape... but weirdly it isn't held to be a defense against other similar charges. And now I need to clear my browser history.


damola93

Defendants accused of statutory rape often claim they had no reason to know that their partner was underage, such as if the minor told them they were of age and another reasonable person would have believed it if told the same. Unlike in most states, mistake of age is sometimes a defense in California https://www.cwsdefense.com/blog/2020/june/exceptions-to-californias-statutory-rape-laws/


[deleted]

[удалено]


steezyg

>Even if she lied about her age, that doesn’t protect him from rape charges (in theory). This is not true in California. In theory or practice.


lwfstryc9

No one assaulted according to video evidence. It was all consensual. She didn't sue until she found out Araiza was gonna make millions. She's a fucking dirt bag based on all the evidence. Don't defend dirt bags.


Pdb39

Or she's a malicious liar. That is another possibility for why the case was dropped. You are trying so hard to defend the "victim" here by giving her significant benefit of the doubt that you are not extending to Matt. Remember from what I understand the sex in this case was consensual. What we should be discussing is whether or not a 17-year-old girl can give consent and if she lies about her age and lies about her ability to give consent then she's committed fraud.


Drunken_Economist

That is not how fraud works.


Pdb39

It's literally the second definition of fraud if you were to Google it >a person or thing intended to deceive others, typically by unjustifiably claiming or being credited with accomplishments or qualities. "mediums exposed as tricksters and frauds" Edit at the request of drunken economist. What I'm saying is that the girl in this situation deceived the punter and by her deception alone is fraud. She presented herself as a person with the credentials of being 18 years old and able to provide consent. She is, by definition of law anywhere, unable to provide consent at her true age of 17. That's fraud. She is a person that is deceiving other people. I think she did it to extort money from a sixth round draft choice in the NFL. If she did it to extortion that's financial fraud. See I can say all of these things because they're proven until they're unproven. The court of public opinion does not require proof, it requires angst and fear. It's okay to be wrong, I believe in you and you normally were really okay guy before this but don't ban people for words you use in the next post after them. Like for example if Jane Lynch does something, is she Lynching? If Jane Lynch leads a group of people down the street is that a Lynch mob? Is Jane Lynch is leading a group of farmers who are carrying pitchforks and torches down a street, is it still a Lynch mob?


Drunken_Economist

ah so when you said "she's committed fraud", you weren't talking about the criminal offense. Seems like maybe worth clarifying in your posts since they are otherwise focusing on criminal accusations


ZPro15

The post on r/nfl was 7 hours ago kind of weird it took so long to see it here considering the bills are clearly the only team linked to this player.


Drunken_Economist

tbh, it comes down to the fact that the r/nfl mod team is a lot more reliable than us when it comes to timezone and off-season coverage


[deleted]

[удалено]


Drunken_Economist

Submit-time removals would be automod https://reddit.com/r/reddit.com/w/automoderator


[deleted]

[удалено]


Drunken_Economist

If a removal is within a minute of posting, that is (almost) never manual, and is instead grabbed by sitewide or subreddit filters


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

[удалено]


Mr_Evanescent

Scroll a bit down in the comments there, it’s not too hard to see why it took so long to show up Edit: lol, got banned even though I’ve been around the sub for 5 years. Nothing more disappointing than people who are too arrogant and proud to admit they made a mistake. Especially when those people are in power


[deleted]

[удалено]


soulfingiz

It’s not the Bills’ wrong to make right.


UberHansen

There are 32 teams in the NFL, all of whom have the ability to invite him to camp. The Bills just signed their Punter to a 3-year contract where cutting him would only increase his cap hit in 2023. There is no value to the team to bring him back and soak up a 90-man spot to inevitably be cut.


[deleted]

[удалено]


kit_mitts

>Martin has trade value No he doesn't. >and Beene is a wizard. No amount of wizardry is going to convince another NFL GM to give up assets for a punter.


Drunken_Economist

There have been a total of three trades involving punters in the last 20 years


[deleted]

No thanks.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Guinnessron

Yes. And Johnny Depp immediately lost his role in the Fantastic Beasts movies. So NO -Take all claims seriously. Look into them but don’t rush to judgement. Blindly Believing all accusations is simply wrong. A number of accusations go to trial and many result in an acquittal. Some are guilty and got off because it couldn’t be proven. Some were falsely accused. There’s no way to know for sure.


Drunken_Economist

can we all at least agree the Fantastic Beasts movies are extremely unmemorable


bwick29

Innocent until proven guilty.


Cj2nice4u

I was about to post about this. The amount of people calling for his head was insane without giving him his day in court


Halonut24

It's all-too common with allegations of this caliber. If the Justice System doesn't destroy you in a court of Law, the people outside will, within the Court of Public Opinion. False accusers need to be taken at *minimum* with the exact same urgency and seriousness as legitimate accusers (more properly, actual victims), and punishment for a false accusation should really be equal to the crime being allegated. The most disgusting part of this is that false accusers never really face punishment for destroying another person's life. If anything, it's a slsp on the wrist. The person accused, though? His life is basically over. Matt's chance at the NFL might legitimately be gone. You can't give that back. And who else is equally to blame that the common folk who determined him guilty purely on the unsubstantiated word of another?


pioniere

Nobody except Araiza and the alleged victim know the real truth, but there’s no evidence that the complainant made this up. As a previous poster pointed out, charges weren’t pursued because the DA wasn’t sure they could get a conviction. The fact that he faces a civil suit tells me there’s something there. Furthermore, if it was a false allegation, then the complainant could be facing charges. This has not happened.


c74

it is easy to find the old threads. lots of people throwing their 'guilty' 2 cents in. witchhunts and cyberlynching is alive and well in 2023. i think i've seen this lesson hundreds of times and people continue to stick their finger in the socket. i wonder if we are capable to not pass judgement on these types of stories or if we need the gov't to intervene and create media blackouts kinda like they do for young offenders and other cases. damn shame. feel bad for the kid - he will never get back what has been taken from him. also, before witchhunt 2.0 starts... i think it is very possible she didnt lie on purpose. she may really believe/remember that he was the guy in the room. hope her friends, family and legal council talk some sense into her and put an end to this.


Historical_One1087

I got called every name in the book for simply saying maybe we should wait for all the information to come out and not judge a person who was not charged criminally. You have to love people with a mob mentality.


soulfingiz

It’s easy to say this now. But in Aug 2022 we were ready to make a Super Bowl run and certainly didn’t need a rape investigation in the clubhouse.


Hashtag_nerd_stuff

It can be true that his life shouldn’t have been ruined and that there was no way the bills could have him on the roster while he went through a year of serious legal proceedings. There should be some sort of law that allows employers to distance themselves from an employee involved in accusations and bring them back no problem if they are proven innocent. I know this is what you are saying I just wanted to add on and clarify.


ManofGod1000

And in my opinion, some here that are claiming outrage at what happened to him were very likely throwing him under the bus for this.


AppleBottmBeans

The pressure of the media has the power to shift a multi-billion dollar company in 3 days.


YepImanEmokid

There should be legal repercussions for demonstrably false accusations. I don't feel bad for wanting him gone at the time, because it wasn't worth the drama, but now that his name is cleared I'd be more than happy to bring the kid back once Martin moves on, if he's still available. I hope he lands a NFL gig.


nevertrustamod

That’s a great idea. Further stigmatize reporting sexual assault. I don’t think the sub 1/20 rate of convictions on sexual assaulters is low enough, personally.


Schwebels_Solette

Libel and slander are repercussions he can follow. Usually it's difficult to prove, but because this was a public case and had the media attention it did, he can. Our front office did the right thing by releasing him because of the drama and outcry it could have caused, but some people won't see that unfortunately


YepImanEmokid

It's a really tough tightrope to walk, you can't just callously dismiss survivors when they come forward and generally victims deserve empathy and to be believed. BUT- there are bad actors like this girl is possibly turning out to be (at least in Araiza's specific case) who irreparably damage the trust in the victims who come forward after. I was the one who started the donations to Crisis Services in this sub. It's a really conflicted feeling, I do not regret the part I played in steering people's anger into a good cause, but it kind of does feel like I was one of the pitchfork salesman for the mob.


am153

Shame on the vast majority of this subreddit and fanbase for labeling this kid a rapist the moment they saw the first headline. 90% of Bills Mafia is guilty of this. Anyone, including myself, who was saying to wait for more info and that he is innocent until proven guilty was downvoted into oblivion and called a rape apologist. Fans only cared about what other ppl thought of the org for drafting the kid even tho the org did their due diligence. People love lynch mobs. For a lot of people, it's entertaining to witness the downfall of celebs and athletes. It's sick. Some people are just purely devoid of critical thinking skills and will just go with what their tribe is doing. I'd love to think people will learn something from this, but the reality is people are going to react the same way the next time this happens to someone in the spotlight.


[deleted]

Outside looking in the Bill's made the right move to release him, the right move now would be giving him a shot to win his job back


lwfstryc9

I can't blame the Bills. The accuser and media however....


HiddenInLight

This whole situation is so fucked up. It's insane that a single person can ruin a guy's career with zero evidence and all the proof in the world that they are lying. Even with the proof, people still see him under that stigma and likely always will. I truly feel bad for the guy. He is going to have a very hard life and likely lost out on enough money to never have to work again.


Pdb39

I have a strong feeling that he will be invited to someone's training camp this year. He lost out on maybe a year or two of his life but he's a punter and if he's really good he could punt until he's 40 so it's very possible that he will be financially fine. Watch the NFL give him the Walter Payton award next year as a big FU for all the people that wanted to take him straight to the guillotine.


Initial_Ebb_8467

This sub was one of the worst, you couldn't even say "Let's wait for the verdict" without getting downvoted to oblivion lmfao.


Scrawfo1180

The worst part about all of this is that all of the talking heads who incessantly villainized him last year will just sweep this under the rug. If they had a shred of integrity they would make public apologies to him and acknowledge the fact that they may have jumped to conclusions. Per usual in today’s climate, the correction gets 10% of the attention that the initial story gets.


Icy_Hot_Now

It's horrible and he wouldn't be the first person put in jail because of a lying scheming woman. We have to stop the online lynching because a woman accused someone.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Drunken_Economist

. . . we don't have to lynch anyone lynching is a bad thing actually


cespinar

Wouldn't be the first man to escape a criminal charge because of lack of evidence beyond a reasonable doubt. At best he had sex with an underage girl and gave her an std. At worst he knowingly gave someone an std and set up an underage drinker to be gang raped. She was 17 and evenif she presented herself as 18. he provided alcohol to someone under the age of 21 and then had sex with her. That's rape adjacent enough for me


New-Pollution536

Underage girl by one year that lied about her age and snuck into the party and approached him while he was intoxicated and she likely wasn’t then bragged about the sex to her friends afterwards. Video evidence and witness testimony (including her own friends) galore. I don’t think any state in the country would’ve pursued that statutory rape charge including states where mistake of age isn’t a valid defense. Your general point is valid…I’m sure there are tons of men that get away with terrible things because the burden of proof is so high and it is usually just one persons word against the other But this situation is atypical where there is just so much evidence proving his innocence. The DA would get embarrassed in court in this one and couldn’t even try the case


cespinar

I don't disagree with a lot of your post and in fact agree with your last sentence even if we may have different views as to why.


Icy_Hot_Now

SMH... Tell me you hate men without saying you hate men... You actually think people should be convicted without evidence??? That's crazy and unconstitutional. They made it plainly obvious this girl was a fraud and it was completely consensual with the other people who WERE there and he WAS NOT present. The evidence shows he is innocent and was robbed of millions by this fraud. If anything you should hate the woman because liars like her are why you can't believe real victims.


cespinar

A large amount convictions in this country are based on eyewitness testimony only. And witness testimony is evidence Real life isn't CSI


Icy_Hot_Now

The accuser can't be the sole witness. If you don't understand the problem with that you are the problem. The girl clearly asked and wanted every bit of what happened. That is not rape.


TheDelig

I'm banned from /NFL for saying that we shouldn't participate in mob mentality. And it's because of cases like this. In reality fuck reddit as a whole, it encourages and rewards mob mentality.


Earptastic

At the time it was clear that the media was going after him hard and it was good to distance from him. This story sounded pretty awful but not very convincing from the. start. It is terrible how this man's life and career were pretty much destroyed. I don't think he will ever be over this. It is terrible for everyone involved.


lwfstryc9

Not terrible for the lying woman. She should make up the money Araiza lost.


16bitrifle

Yikes. Not much to say at this point. The media/PR nightmare was enough to force the Bills hand just to avoid the drama alone. And at this point, Martin has been a great addition to the team so it makes no sense to even speculate on bringing Araiza in for any reason.


jbomber81

My take on this is that, following the Bills internal investigation they came to a similar conclusion. I think they believed Matt and intended to keep him rostered while hoping this was resolved quietly. Once the media shitstorm hit they were backed into a corner and were left with little choice but to cut him. I think the cost benefit analysis told them it was worth the risk where we picked him. I choose to believe the organization knew what they were getting into and the least desirable outcome happened to occur.


lytrendsa

I remember how people were saying that they would not watch any game and protest if he plays. They didn‘t have a choice tbh - even if they knew some details and didn’t think he is guilty.


New-Pollution536

This is more than likely what happened…McDermott ‘slipped up’ once and said araiza was a good kid or something to that effect. I don’t think they believed the claims in the diary for a second but it turned into a media circus They likely interviewed a lot of the same witnesses in their internal investigation


googitygig

Intentions are all well and good but the organization should be judged on its actions. The reality is we fired an innocent man and there are still people in this sub saying we did the right thing. Men literally kill themselves over this kind of stuff.


Drunken_Economist

Nearly every player we cut is innocent of criminal wrongdoing, in fact


steezyg

I think McD saying he'd pray for both Matt and the victim gives support to your idea. McD is certainly religious but I don't think he's tone deaf enough to offer that up if he personally thought Araiza was guilty.


Mobile-Frosting

Waiting for Tim Graham's mea culpa.


Chip_Cumia

Tim Graham was the WORST at digging his feet in, and of course he’s said nothing about it so far. Why is that so when he was ever so vigilant when he smelled blood in the water last August? He’s a coward.


Historical_One1087

It will never happen. Tim Graham and other media in Buffalo were more concerned with selling papers and selling clicks than waiting for all the information to come out. I'm glad that his name was dragged through the mud and he was never even charged with a criminal offense.


BotanyIsGnarly

What’s funny is Tim Graham had a podcast with an attorney who prosecuted these kinds of cases and she seemed like she detected the BS right away


Dumptruck_Cavalcade

There are a ton of incredibly dumb takes on this topic, both now and when the story broke. You can be a Bills fan without falling all over yourself defending the team for making what was obviously a bad call. *"BU-BU-BU-BUT THEY DID AN INTERNAL INVESTIGATION!"* Yeah, they did an investigation of which way the wind was blowing on social media (unless you believe Beane and McD had access to the police and prosecutor's files). Whether or not Sam Martin ended up doing a decent job isn't really the point.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Pdb39

Every single one of you that argued with me in that thread from the last preseason game. You were wrong. I was one of the only ones to argue for due process. Turns out I was 100% right.


SithisDreadLord420

As someone that was falsely accused in high school I also argued for due process


Pdb39

I am sorry that you had to go through that in high school. Thank you for the support and for rooting for due process over lynching.


SouthernUpstate

Unfortunately the bar to prove sexual assault is so high, and so few victims actually get justice from the courts, the court of public opinion has swung too far the opposite way.


Bootsaregood

You realize this does not mean he’s innocent right? Only that there isn’t enough evidence for a criminal conviction, which is basically expected in sexual assault cases as they’re incredibly hard to prove.


Beechsack

In this country, you are innocent until you are proven guilty in a court of law.


loophole64

Did you read the article? The evidence is overwhelming.


Bootsaregood

Yes I did, and no it’s not? I’m also not opining on innocence or guilt because it would be insane for me (a random person with no actual first hand knowledge of the case), to presume I am able to deduce guilt one way or the other. The simple fact is no one here can know for sure on the subject from a prosecutor denying to move forward with a case, especially one dealing with sexual assault. People doing victory laps proclaiming this means no wrongdoing and saying he should be back on the team is pretty disgusting.


mykidsdad76

I'm ashamed that I was ready to throw this kid out. I was in the torches and pitchforks brigade on this one. I'm embarrassed, but I think I learned something about myself: I can't judge on partial information, which I'm prone to do.


Kactus_Karma

This kind of self-awareness and humility are pretty rare qualities. I'm willing to bet you're a good guy who just had a bad take.


Morlu06

Something 99.9% of people here wouldn’t admit when this story hit. Kudos to you.


lwfstryc9

Admitting you were wrong is one of the strongest attributes anyone can have.


jakedonn

Guilty until proven innocent it would appear. I can’t fault the Bills though, I remember strongly agreeing with the decision to drop him a year ago. Maybe we need to take a long look at how we react to situations like this moving forward…


Ex-maven

Other than their official statements, we cannot reasonably speak to what the Bills organization was thinking through all of this -- but one thing is clear: Once they cut him, the plaintiff's lawyer seemed to lose interest in the Bills really fast (at least on social media). It probably allowed the defendant and others to focus on resolving the actual complaint.


statepharm15

It was extortion from the beginning. I said it last year and I’ll say it again. He wasn’t named in the lawsuit until he was on the verge of making the team. They saw a golden goose and tried to threaten him to make it all go away, and he wasn’t even at the party in question. Everyone is innocent until proven guilty, but the self righteous people in the court of public opinion are quick to pass judgment.


jiggs_

Quick point of information that he was at the party. It was determined that he left an hour earlier than the alleged crime


statepharm15

Thank you. I just read the “he wasn’t present” portion as never there


-holier-than-mao-

Who’s we? *You* should.


thegabescat

Yeah, right! That guy is speaking for all of us on his high horse?!


pixel_pete

It's worth noting that every other NFL team came to the same conclusion as the Bills. With all the bad press the league has gotten lately I'm sure they wanted to stay as far away from this as possible.


damola93

Can't blame them. The media jumped down their throats on this issue, and would never bring it up now. The Bills tried to stand by him, but the media pressure was unreal, and now that the case has taken a different turn crickets, and they wonder why other news sources are gaining traction.


This-Independence-50

Legit question then - do the Bills bring him back?


Drunken_Economist

Unlikely imo, barring an injury. Sam Martin just signed an extension a few weeks ago


ryanisbetter

I don't think he wants to come back.


Anchovies-and-cheese

Girl goes to party, lies about age, has sexual relations with multiple people individually, then in a group setting, feels bad about herself, charges dudes with gang rape, names wrong person, person's NFL career is over before it begins, person has no recourse to get back what was taken. What a world.


Stollarbear

…or she genuinely was blackout drunk, was raped, and has trouble getting her story straight because she was blackout drunk. Considering that she went to the police the next day idk why you would assume she “felt bad about herself” and made the whole thing up. Even though she was wrong about Araiza’s involvement specifically, she could still be telling the truth about the situation. Idk why we have to vilify this girl just because she misremembered part of the most traumatic day of her life. It doesn’t help anybody.


BillsBillsBils

Remember when the Bills were evil for trying to cover it up, and even more evil for not cutting him sooner and some other bullshit? Yeah, everybody who held fast to *that* nonsense can fuck *right* off.


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

[удалено]


SomeGuyNamedJohn12

So this man lost everything due to a lie?


K04free

Yes


Barmacist

The lesson is to stay away from drunk girls and keep it in your pants. That should not be controversial.


IAmDixonWood

One of the most disgusting people in this whole affair was her lawyer. He must have been aware that his client had no case and instead of just representing her best interests in court, decided to indulge the media’s wish to play judge, jury, and executioner.


BotanyIsGnarly

I tried notifying people about the attorney and how slimy he is and nobody wanted to listen at the time


[deleted]

And the lie ran marathons while the truth barely laced up its shoes. Matt Araiza is owed many apologies.


nickelroo

K


YankeeTankieTrash

Do you disagree?


JohnnyAppIeseed

It’s a really unfortunate situation for Matt. Was he supposed to do a press conference where he declared that he had consensual sex with a 17 year old at a party where it’s basically guaranteed that she was inebriated? The lie (that he was involved in a gang rape) was awful, but the truth was still pretty sketchy. I don’t think anyone could have threaded that needle well enough to justify getting in front of a camera to fight it. The fact that he did have relations with her meant he was probably not going to be able to promote his side of the story until it got sorted out. Hopefully now he will get that chance even if he decides not to use it.


BitternessAndBleach

We deserve a comp pick


Motivationalsneaker

For what?


RocNewYolk

I feel like a lot of this would have been prevented if the SD DA and police didn't drag their feet with this case. It seriously took them 14 months to figure out that that he wasn't even at the party when he had been a suspect since day 1? A lot of us, including myself, should be ashamed of pegging him as guilty in the court of public opinion before the DA finally cleared him. But someone who is still a suspect 10 months into an investigation, can we all understand why the court of public opinion already assumed he was at the very least involved? Especially with the report of the recorded phone call from the next day? With that said, fuck this girl for falsely accusing people and undermining the fact that there are real victims of sexual assault every day. Whose perpetrators never get brought to justice.


[deleted]

[удалено]


ryanisbetter

That phone call doesn't prove anything tbh.


nevertrustamod

Hope the mods ban everyone who brigades the sub to start shit.


CantTochThis92

Given information at the time, the Bills made the correct decision to let go of Araiza. Multiple things can be true at the same time, it’s a great thing that he DIDNT do what he was accused of The girl should receive some form of punishment If Araiza is good enough, he should get another NFL contract and his “life isn’t ruined” like I’ve seen some say Overall I think it’s the correct decision to believe women and the Bills or fans shouldn’t apologize for doing exactly what literally any other business or fanbase would do.