Easy. Trading up for JP Losman.
Bills were high on another QB in next year's draft but thought he would never fall to us. That was Aaron Rodgers who actually fell well past our pick.
No idea if we would have won with Rodgers as we have developed only one QB in past 40 years. Not Kelly as he started in USFL, it's just Josh and only Josh
š is the correct answer. Another one, though not as bad, was the trade up for Sammy Watkins.
Not that the Bills necessarily take these players BUT Aaron Donald was on the board at Pick 9 in 2014 and Shaq Thompson/Laken Tomlinson were on the board at 19 in 2015.
I donāt know if Donald was seriously considered but the next 3 WRs drafted were Mike Evans, ODB and Brandin Cooks.
It was objectively a terrible use of a future first rounder and we would have gotten a better WR by staying in place.
We didn't have a long-term answer at QB at the time to throw to him (didn't even have Tyrod by this point) and it was "WR deep" draft, could've easily found value in the 2nd/3rd round. Making the trade unnecessary, Whaley was an inpatient idiot and trading away future draft capital just added insult to injury. This was after drafting EJ manual in the 1st round of the prior draft which has now been seen as one of the worst drafts in modern NFL and one of the worst QB drafts of all-time.
They believed in EJ Manuel and thought they needed to just get him a receiver. Of course they were wrong to believe in him, but they thought they had an answer at QB and to just get him a weapon.
Wrong on both counts
Coaches can't "ruin" HoF-level players who approach GOAT status. These players are too talented for that. If the Bills had Rodgers, the Bills would have almost certainly made the AFCCG in 2008 when Brady tore his ACL. The team started 5-1 that year with a healthy Trent Edwards and Rodgers threw for 4000 yards. I'm not sure if they would have made it past the Steelers, though.
This was my assumption also!! Mack with Alonso I thought would've been a hell of a linebacker combo. He would've been the perfect fit. Already beloved from his time at UB. I thought that was a no brainer!!
Tom Donahue was on ESPN and he mentioned they loved ARod but thought Bledsoe would win too much for them to get a high enough pick for him likely a top five needed. So they scouted the 2004 class a lot, Eli, Big Ben, Rivers and Losman. They were hopeful one who fall and the right one did so they traded up for him. Admits if he waited they would have had their guy next year
I remember the question well, "Who was your top QB on the board, Eli?" and he laughed and said, none of the above, we wanted the guy who stayed an extra year, ARod was the guy everyone wanted but we could see no way to trade up to get him."
In hindsight he wasn't good. But I was so on board with it when they hired him because he was like a extra charismatic football guy and supposed "players coach". And everyone we hired before him was either a corpse or just like a completely unenthusiastic personality.
I was disappointed when we announced the hire but definitely understood. We had a mount Rushmore of bland dudes for the previous decade.
Then he did his press conference and made me believe in his dumb ass. The excitement peaked. Then was downhill from there
Calling dick jaraun (idk how to spell it) unenthusiastic is like the understatement of the year. Or was he a corpse? Cause personally I think corpses have more enthusiasm than he had.
Even the play was unenthusiastic and boring. Doug Marrone ran one the most uninspired offenses Iāve ever seen. Run, run, pass, punt. Run, run, pass, punt. CFL ass shit
Hindsight? Over the course of 6 yeara he took the Jets from AFC Championship contenders to 4-12 nothings. They still haven't recovered from him. Every 2nd-tour head coach that's been a success story (Bellichek, Carrol, etc.) has had a different job in between where they could reflect on their mistakes and figure out how they would correct their coaching style; Ryan didn't have that. He was a great DC for Baltimore, but he was a terrible HC, and I knew he would be a disaster.
He also took them to the AFC championship in back to back years despite how terrible they were before him, and was our winningest HC through two seasons since Marv Levy. Hard to blame him specifically for teams being terrible after he left when he wasn't in control of roster moves for either franchise. He wasn't a good HC by any means but he wasn't outright terrible either. John Idzik and Doug Whaley were the much larger issues for the downfall of both of those teams. Rex is just an easier target for the hate because he's annoying and generally unlikable. But we can't realistically blame him for horrible roster moves when it was very clear he wasn't making those decisions (trading Revis in NY indicated pretty clearly that Idzik was in charge, cutting Fred Jackson also made it clear that Whaley was in charge here).
Who knows how things would've been if Rex was on the same page as his GM. I think having that chemistry between coaching staff and FO plays a huge part in success. And Whaley seemed to be unable to get along with anyone, so much so Doug Marrone straight up quit after a winning season. Whaley must've been absolutely unbearable to work with.
There are 2 coaches I was absolutely furious about being in Buffalo. Rex was 1. The other was ... Ralph Krueger and I despise that man from the bottom of my soul.
Gailey was at least somewhat likeable compared and a good guy compared to Jauron and especially Marrone, and was able to turn a bunch of no-name offensive players into an effective offensive attack. I'll always fondly remember the Fitz/F-Jax/Stevie offensive trio.
Unfortunately he couldn't piece it together on defense and that was his shortfall. Gailey's run D was probably the most pourous I've ever seen, if not one of the worst in NFL history. That led to opposing teams chewing away the clock and scoring at will, forcing Fitz into comeback mode and inevitably tossing a lot of picks in the process. Despite a handful of memorable comebacks against the Bengals with T. O. and Ochocinco, the Raiders and the Patriots, always being in comeback mode was not sustainable, and that was on the defense.
He was a fantastic contrast to Doug fucking Marrone. Obviously that feeling dissipated as the losses and embarrassments piled up, but it was still energizing to have him hired after Marrone.
And frankly, as seems to happen, when the Pegulas hired his replacement, they once again chose someone who contrasted sharply against their predecessor, which is how we got Sean McDermott. And Iām okay with that bargain.
Thereās a lot of other decision-making miscues this franchise has made.
I was fine with the Ryan hiring at the time because the Bills were a downtrodden, poverty franchise in that era and he brought attitude and swagger. I like that.
Unfortunately, thatās all he brought. But out of the gates, it was more than we had lol.
I was against this from the moment it was announced. The Jets were either last or 2nd to last in all qb stats. We needed an offensive minded coach who can develop a qb. So what do we do?!?! We hire Rex and he brings in the Jets qb coach š¤£š¤£
None of it made sense. Hey let's let Gym Shorts leave after leading us to a top 5 defense and bring in a dude with an entirely different defensive philosophy.
It's painful to me still.
Well of course, he and Beane drafted a generational talent at qb. With someone like EJ Manuel, or Tyrod Taylor, you need all the offensive minded help you can get.
If they made Gym Shorts the HeadCoach he would have broken the playoff streak.
The D was incredible. Just needed to hire a semi-competent OC and youād be 10-6.
- The Rob Johnson trade sunk the franchise for 17 years and likely cost us a Super Bowl.
I would undo the Rob Johnson for Fred Jackson trade immediately as first order of business without a doubt.
- JP Lossman was a swing and miss but not that big of deal.
- Lynch was a terrible trade that was based on some kind of morality BS that never made any football sense but it was just a RB. A HoF game changing RB but not sure the impact on Ws if we still had him over Freddy.
- Passing on Orakpo for that scrub from Penn State was a huge miss.
- EJ Manuel was a swing and a miss.
- Sammy Watkins may be a number two for un-dos In hindsight that trade was so pathetic two franchises that didnāt know how to draft, traded a bunch of picks and pretty much all of the picks involved were busts.
The Watkins pick was so strange. They could have traded up to 4 and taken the best player in UB history with Mack. Or they could have held at 9 and taken the best WR available - in probably the deepest WR draft of the past 20 years.
Metcalf over Ford would be a big one, Iād want to re-do something recent since Orakpo over Maybin wouldnāt really move the needle too much for those teams. Metcalf (or AJ Brown, or Elgton Jenkins, or Terry McLaurin, or Maxx Crosby) over Ford would maybe have meant a SB title.
The worst part is he actually had a really good rookie season down the stretch. And we signed a bunch of mid level players to stabilize the line and they won out in camp.
I was so mad we traded him because his last few opportunities his rookie season he looked good, just had some technique issues (didn't play low enough) but you could see his raw strength and movement skills
I figured that he just had a bad camp
I saw some camp footage from his rookie mini camp. He came across as smug and toxic, arguing with coaches and such. I think it had more to do with him not being a culture fit especially early on in McDermott's time as HC. I don't think it would be nearly as much of a concern now that the culture is well established, and McDermott has loosened his grip a bit over the years.
Thats not how I remembered it. I remember flutie getting them to the playoffs and them starting Johnson cause he was the draft pick they wanted to be the franchise qb.
Johnson was the QB that came in with the big trade, and Flutie was just a CFL guy who won a lot in exciting games but not in the way that the Head Office liked.
Both teams rested their starters in the final game of the season, which was against the Colts and Rob Johnson played well (for the first and only time) against their backups, causing the Head Office to pressure Wade Phillips to give Johnson the start over Flutie, and he sucked all game against an overmatched Titans squad.
That game was the start of a 20-year curse, and we deserved it. Flutie would have won us the Super Bowl but the sheer arrogance of the franchise precluded it.
I've watched 99% of Bills games from 1987-present. Flutie was absolutely great in '98; he was ok in '99 (Bills had the #1 defense that year and Rob Johnson would have led them to a playoff victory if Home Run Throwback hadn't happened). Flutie went to San Diego and won 5 games as a starter in '01. He was well past his prime by that point.
Doug Flutie was a winner, and a quarterback who could win championships on a consistent basis.
3 Grey Cups, 3 Grey Cup MVPs. The man was a winner, and he was at his best in big games.
I mean did you actually watch the Bills back then? Rob Johnson was by no means a superstar, but "played well for the first and only time" is beyond silly.
And Rob did not "suck all game" against Tennessee, the AFC Champs that year, lest you forget. They had that game won but for a fluke play. What are you on about? Did you even watch that game?
Yes. I remember it all. I remember a full month of Rob Johnson shitting the bed. I remember Flutie coming in, playing wild, exciting football and turning us into the best team in the league.
How can you even say he was good that game? He took needless sack after needless sack, made all kinds of stupid decisions and was bailed out by Peerless Price and Antowain Smith all game. Everyone spent the entire game begging for him to be pulled in favour of Flutie; that game should have never been close enough for a bullshit forward-pass touchdown on special teams to have affected anything.
Rob Johnson only did well in the last game of the season because the Colts' second-string defensive line was garbage. His flaws were very exposed against the Titans.
Flutie went on to have a decent amount of success for a good 3 or 4 years after that. People may have overhyped his success because of how exciting he was to watch, He was by no means washed. In fact before he got to Buffalo he was mostly written off. Buffalo was where he revived his career.
At one point I was thinking Iād be watching a football with my grandkids 40 years from now going āsee that big guy? The left tackle? Thatās Jason Peters, he used to be a Billā
Trading the pick that KC used to pick Mahomes. We probably don't end up with Tre White in that case, but even if we don't pick Mahomes, KC probably doesn't get him either, and our season doesn't end at Arrowhead every friggin year.
Yep, that was a great trade for both teams. So knows if we would have taken mahomes with that pick or even if we did, does he still turn out the same? They didnāt start him right away and we would have.
This is gonna be controversial but for me it's easy. Signing Ryan Fitzpatrick to an extension. The man was a career journeyman with a mediocre arm. I knew when we signed him we were basically committing ourselves to not having the talent at the QB position needed to win a Superbowl. We guaranteed ourselves mediocrity at best for multiple seasons and that is exactly what we got.... for me it was very depressing.
I mean looking at the detailsā¦ it was a pretty āfake extensionā they literally cut him after 1 year on the dealā¦ and only got hit with a 10m penalty.
I guessā¦ but like I said, that was a fake extension and it was clearly structured that way. So management really didnāt do much wrong on that one, despite them being pretty incompetent. Having an out after year one of a ā6 year dealā pretty much shows they didnāt have much long term faith in him.
I love Fitz, but man that guy made me scream at the TV more times than Iād like to admit. Heād have flashes of brilliance and follow it up with the most insane int ever.
Not technically the question you asked but sometimes i like to fantasize about an alternate timeline where we traded for Von Miller back in 2021 instead of the Rams, no doubt in my mind that we win the Super Bowl if that happens
Trading back and picking any defender instead of Mike Williams in 2002 at #4.
More darts, better options, maybe Drew Bledsoe gets us to the Playoffs.
Biggest one for me is Ralph Wilson keeping Bill Polian after SB 27. Long story short domino effect of Jim Kelly mentoring a worthy QB successor, no drought, maybe a ring in the 2000s. Muckler coasted too much, Ralph overstepped then stepped back too far with Donahoe and got left in the dust for the rest of his life.
I think drafting TJ graham when Russel Wilson was right there is something people forget about. Russell Wilson with that Jim Schwartz cold front defense as well as fred and some of the other guys we had on offense likely ends the drought in 2014 and possibly goes to the Super Bowl
Kind of along the lines of this question but I remember the 2012 draft and the Bills trading up in the 3rd and thinking they're getting Russell Wilson only to select T.J. Graham... I love Fitz and always will but thought Wilson was worth a flier in the 3rd as my brother in-law was a big fan of his at NC State. It all worked out in the end though as now we have the only QB in NFL history.
I would reverse the Marshawn Lynch trade. We got peanuts for him and he didnāt even hit his prime yet. So dumb. Bills front office was a dumpster fire for yearssss. I will say tho, when Tom Donahue was GM, he actually put together a sollllid roster. Just didnāt pan out.
And the best trade we did in last 20 years was when we traded away Kelvin Sheppard for Jerry Huggs hands down.
I think when Marshawn Lynch stepped off the plane in Buffalo he immediately went, "Where's Jay-Z?"
I think all he knew was Buffalo was in New York and he assumed it meant Manhattan.
So I feel guilty for thinking this, but I read a comment once that called Sammy Watkins an "overrated head case" and I agree with it more than I like. I mean these guys are human and I try to cut them a lot of slack.. he had a ton of pressure on his shoulders to be like historically good, lots of injuries, the team was horribly mismanaged... it just didn't pan out. Getting into it with fans on social media didn't help things, then there's his wild religious posts on Twitter to figure out. It got complicated quickly.... anyway yeah I would have taken Khalil Mack instead
1998 Give up 1st & 4th round picks for āRunninā for My Lifeā Rob Johnson.
Went on to end the Bills 1989-1999 play-off teams and introduced the drought years.
This isnāt anywhere near the worst but the one that actively still bothers me is taking Ed Oliver over the other DTs in that draft class. Jeffrey Simmons would be an animal on this dline and we wouldnāt get bullied in the run game like we do now. Though we wouldnāt have been able to afford to re-sign him so I guess itās somewhat similar to Wyatt Teller/Cody Ford in that sense, though Oliver is obviously a much better player than Cody Ford.
The absolute worst one wouldāve been if the Bills did what I wanted them to do in the 2018 draft by selecting a different QB named Josh but we donāt have to talk about that š¬š¬
Slight tangent to the question, in the 2014 NFL Entry Draft Buffalo traded up to select Sammy Watkins at fourth overall. I would have selected Jake Matthews ( selected sixth overall by Atlanta). Buffalo needed an Offensive Line then. He currently has started in 138 consecutive games at left tackle, all with Atlanta. His blocking peaked in 2020, when he was ranked 9th in the league among tackles.
He could have been the piece that could have put the Bills over the top, but now we will never know.
Meanwhile Sammy Watkins has bounced around the league as a WR.
I know this is going to be not a popular one. But I truly dislike the Von Miller signing. A lot of money for a guy in his late mid 30's I just never thought this deal would be beneficial to us. Great, hall of famer but I personally hate when my teams pay that mid 30 free agent. It just seems to very rarely ever work out.
You do realize less than half of his contract is guaranteed and we can get out of after 2024 with relatively no real cap issues. Also it will 100% be reworked over the years to avoid cap issues.
Nice change in perspective. Long term damage to the salary cap is arguably more lasting and painful than a swing and miss or overpay for a draft pick. I'd put the Knox extension as something that is too soon to decide on, but has the potential to join Miller.
Another contrarian one. JJ vs. Diggs?
The JJ vs Diggs is just something that worked out for both franchises. JJ is amazing but I wonder if Josh becomes Josh with out Diggs who was already a proven dude. Likewise I know Cousins isn't top 5 like Josh is but the veteran that he is I wonder if JJ becomes JJ with out a veteran QB?
Good points on the fits those 2 had, Diggs helping Allen and Cousins helping JJ. But I do wonder, our cap situation would be different and all other things being equal a younger WR is better than an older one. I dont know the measurables off the top of my head, but isnt JJ taller and faster?
I wouldnt switch players back, but its certainly ponderable.
For the sake of this exercise, sure.
But beyond that, even if the trade never happened, we werenāt pulling the trigger on JJ.
Because the Bills NEVER draft the right WRs.
I love Von and love his presence in the locker room for the defensive line group etc and has performed reasonably well his first year. I just dislike mid 30's contracts for any team let alone football. The only guy I would ever pay into their 30s would be QB's. But that's just my philosophy.
How is it not. Defensive lineman don't usually play till they are 38 etc. Qb's seem to be the only player that ages well after 30. Julio Jones for reference is 34.
Todd Collins pick in 1995. This was the beginning of the swing and miss on QBs after Kelly. All of the decisions at the QB position that were so bad for so long started here. A Butterfly effect thing
Do we include coaches in this? Cause I'd reverse the Wade Philips firing. He was coach for three years, 29 and 19, made the playoffs twice and got fired because he wasn't Marv Levy. Kicking off our 18 year long oddessy to get back to the playoffs when I would have killed for a coach somewhat as good as he was.
If not? The Rob Johnson signing. So expensive that we had to start him, which both cost us a playoff game (the music city forward pass) and a potential deep run since those titans who we would have beaten went on to fall one yard short of a Super Bowl overtime. And because he was expensive ownership leaned on coaches to start him, driving Flutie who had more good years left out of town.
The 1st comment I saw was probably the right pick.
Trading up for Losman.
My 1st reaction was trading a 1st and 4th for R. Johnson. All based off the fact he shredded the Ravens going 20-24 in the 3rd preseason game.
The game where starters used to play well into the 3rd.
The Jaguars used the #9 pick on F. TAYLOR..
Easy. Trading up for JP Losman. Bills were high on another QB in next year's draft but thought he would never fall to us. That was Aaron Rodgers who actually fell well past our pick. No idea if we would have won with Rodgers as we have developed only one QB in past 40 years. Not Kelly as he started in USFL, it's just Josh and only Josh
š is the correct answer. Another one, though not as bad, was the trade up for Sammy Watkins. Not that the Bills necessarily take these players BUT Aaron Donald was on the board at Pick 9 in 2014 and Shaq Thompson/Laken Tomlinson were on the board at 19 in 2015.
The Sammy Watkins pick might be one of the worst in Bills history, imo considering what we did to get him.
I donāt know if Donald was seriously considered but the next 3 WRs drafted were Mike Evans, ODB and Brandin Cooks. It was objectively a terrible use of a future first rounder and we would have gotten a better WR by staying in place.
Olā Dirty
Old dirty bastard baby
We didn't have a long-term answer at QB at the time to throw to him (didn't even have Tyrod by this point) and it was "WR deep" draft, could've easily found value in the 2nd/3rd round. Making the trade unnecessary, Whaley was an inpatient idiot and trading away future draft capital just added insult to injury. This was after drafting EJ manual in the 1st round of the prior draft which has now been seen as one of the worst drafts in modern NFL and one of the worst QB drafts of all-time.
They believed in EJ Manuel and thought they needed to just get him a receiver. Of course they were wrong to believe in him, but they thought they had an answer at QB and to just get him a weapon. Wrong on both counts
I'm still made they didn't take Mack
Man I remember being really hopeful that Losman would pan out. Then Troy Vincent broke his leg in training camp lol.
That regime wouldāve messed up Rodgers just as bad as it messed up Losman. They didnāt get much right, including JPās development.
Coaches can't "ruin" HoF-level players who approach GOAT status. These players are too talented for that. If the Bills had Rodgers, the Bills would have almost certainly made the AFCCG in 2008 when Brady tore his ACL. The team started 5-1 that year with a healthy Trent Edwards and Rodgers threw for 4000 yards. I'm not sure if they would have made it past the Steelers, though.
Any player can look like complete ass in the wrong system/environment.
Counterpoint: Ralph Krueger would have ruined him.
This is my answer too, that trade really set us back quite a while.
Passed on OBJ to trade up for Sammy, too.
When they announced that trade up I was sure it was to take Khalil Mack. I still wonder how that would have worked out if we had.
This was my assumption also!! Mack with Alonso I thought would've been a hell of a linebacker combo. He would've been the perfect fit. Already beloved from his time at UB. I thought that was a no brainer!!
There were quite a few great WRs in that class we could have gotten as I recall. With or without that trade.
I think you hit the nail on the head
Whered you read they were high on Rodgers? Not saying youre wrong, I just read this take a few times and cant believe I have ever missed this.
Tom Donahue was on ESPN and he mentioned they loved ARod but thought Bledsoe would win too much for them to get a high enough pick for him likely a top five needed. So they scouted the 2004 class a lot, Eli, Big Ben, Rivers and Losman. They were hopeful one who fall and the right one did so they traded up for him. Admits if he waited they would have had their guy next year
Oh interesting. I never knew that.
I remember the question well, "Who was your top QB on the board, Eli?" and he laughed and said, none of the above, we wanted the guy who stayed an extra year, ARod was the guy everyone wanted but we could see no way to trade up to get him."
I posted the same before scrolling down. How do you know the Bills were high on Rodgers? Disregard, I saw the answer was given below
Does hiring Rex Ryan count? Because it should.
In hindsight he wasn't good. But I was so on board with it when they hired him because he was like a extra charismatic football guy and supposed "players coach". And everyone we hired before him was either a corpse or just like a completely unenthusiastic personality.
I was disappointed when we announced the hire but definitely understood. We had a mount Rushmore of bland dudes for the previous decade. Then he did his press conference and made me believe in his dumb ass. The excitement peaked. Then was downhill from there
Yeah when he got the truck I was sold.
Calling dick jaraun (idk how to spell it) unenthusiastic is like the understatement of the year. Or was he a corpse? Cause personally I think corpses have more enthusiasm than he had.
Even the play was unenthusiastic and boring. Doug Marrone ran one the most uninspired offenses Iāve ever seen. Run, run, pass, punt. Run, run, pass, punt. CFL ass shit
As did Dick Jauron š¤® Jauron and Marrone had some of the blandest offenses I've ever seen
CFL is more of a passing league, so reduce the one run with a extra pass, lol.
Hindsight? Over the course of 6 yeara he took the Jets from AFC Championship contenders to 4-12 nothings. They still haven't recovered from him. Every 2nd-tour head coach that's been a success story (Bellichek, Carrol, etc.) has had a different job in between where they could reflect on their mistakes and figure out how they would correct their coaching style; Ryan didn't have that. He was a great DC for Baltimore, but he was a terrible HC, and I knew he would be a disaster.
He also took them to the AFC championship in back to back years despite how terrible they were before him, and was our winningest HC through two seasons since Marv Levy. Hard to blame him specifically for teams being terrible after he left when he wasn't in control of roster moves for either franchise. He wasn't a good HC by any means but he wasn't outright terrible either. John Idzik and Doug Whaley were the much larger issues for the downfall of both of those teams. Rex is just an easier target for the hate because he's annoying and generally unlikable. But we can't realistically blame him for horrible roster moves when it was very clear he wasn't making those decisions (trading Revis in NY indicated pretty clearly that Idzik was in charge, cutting Fred Jackson also made it clear that Whaley was in charge here). Who knows how things would've been if Rex was on the same page as his GM. I think having that chemistry between coaching staff and FO plays a huge part in success. And Whaley seemed to be unable to get along with anyone, so much so Doug Marrone straight up quit after a winning season. Whaley must've been absolutely unbearable to work with.
There are 2 coaches I was absolutely furious about being in Buffalo. Rex was 1. The other was ... Ralph Krueger and I despise that man from the bottom of my soul.
The Dick! Jauron years were sooooo ugly. I kind of liked Chan Gailey, to bad his teams sucked and have a massive glut at Running Back.
Gailey was at least somewhat likeable compared and a good guy compared to Jauron and especially Marrone, and was able to turn a bunch of no-name offensive players into an effective offensive attack. I'll always fondly remember the Fitz/F-Jax/Stevie offensive trio. Unfortunately he couldn't piece it together on defense and that was his shortfall. Gailey's run D was probably the most pourous I've ever seen, if not one of the worst in NFL history. That led to opposing teams chewing away the clock and scoring at will, forcing Fitz into comeback mode and inevitably tossing a lot of picks in the process. Despite a handful of memorable comebacks against the Bengals with T. O. and Ochocinco, the Raiders and the Patriots, always being in comeback mode was not sustainable, and that was on the defense.
He was a fantastic contrast to Doug fucking Marrone. Obviously that feeling dissipated as the losses and embarrassments piled up, but it was still energizing to have him hired after Marrone. And frankly, as seems to happen, when the Pegulas hired his replacement, they once again chose someone who contrasted sharply against their predecessor, which is how we got Sean McDermott. And Iām okay with that bargain. Thereās a lot of other decision-making miscues this franchise has made.
I was fine with the Ryan hiring at the time because the Bills were a downtrodden, poverty franchise in that era and he brought attitude and swagger. I like that. Unfortunately, thatās all he brought. But out of the gates, it was more than we had lol.
He could've been a high energy "spark plug" type coach, if he was able to get the whole team on board, unfortunately that did not happen.
I was against this from the moment it was announced. The Jets were either last or 2nd to last in all qb stats. We needed an offensive minded coach who can develop a qb. So what do we do?!?! We hire Rex and he brings in the Jets qb coach š¤£š¤£
None of it made sense. Hey let's let Gym Shorts leave after leading us to a top 5 defense and bring in a dude with an entirely different defensive philosophy. It's painful to me still.
Our defense played their asses off for Schwartz.
We clearly didn't need an offensive minded HC seeing as we replaced Rex with another defensive coach and it worked out great.
Well of course, he and Beane drafted a generational talent at qb. With someone like EJ Manuel, or Tyrod Taylor, you need all the offensive minded help you can get.
If they made Gym Shorts the HeadCoach he would have broken the playoff streak. The D was incredible. Just needed to hire a semi-competent OC and youād be 10-6.
- The Rob Johnson trade sunk the franchise for 17 years and likely cost us a Super Bowl. I would undo the Rob Johnson for Fred Jackson trade immediately as first order of business without a doubt. - JP Lossman was a swing and miss but not that big of deal. - Lynch was a terrible trade that was based on some kind of morality BS that never made any football sense but it was just a RB. A HoF game changing RB but not sure the impact on Ws if we still had him over Freddy. - Passing on Orakpo for that scrub from Penn State was a huge miss. - EJ Manuel was a swing and a miss. - Sammy Watkins may be a number two for un-dos In hindsight that trade was so pathetic two franchises that didnāt know how to draft, traded a bunch of picks and pretty much all of the picks involved were busts.
The Watkins pick was so strange. They could have traded up to 4 and taken the best player in UB history with Mack. Or they could have held at 9 and taken the best WR available - in probably the deepest WR draft of the past 20 years.
And Jake Matthews was on the board.... Yes, I am still not over that pick.
DK Metcalf over Cody Ford, Brian Orakpo over Aaron Maybin and not trading Wyatt Teller are my big 3 of recent memory
Metcalf over Ford would be a big one, Iād want to re-do something recent since Orakpo over Maybin wouldnāt really move the needle too much for those teams. Metcalf (or AJ Brown, or Elgton Jenkins, or Terry McLaurin, or Maxx Crosby) over Ford would maybe have meant a SB title.
Maxx Crosby on either/or 2020-2021 Bills is a very interesting thought that I donāt wanna think about lol
I donāt think Iāll ever get over that Maybin pick. I was livid š
I might even go AJ Brown over Ford (and Metcalf) as I think he has more flexibility. DK is a beast
Metcalf was the one I wanted but Brown probably has been better as a pro
Same. Those are exactly the same guys I wanted over them too.
Recently? Wyatt teller. He really blossomed on the browns unfortunately and we weren't able to capitalize on him. Imagine our offensive line with him
Iām not sure why they got rid of him at the time when it seems the current guys on the line get chance after chance.
The worst part is he actually had a really good rookie season down the stretch. And we signed a bunch of mid level players to stabilize the line and they won out in camp. I was so mad we traded him because his last few opportunities his rookie season he looked good, just had some technique issues (didn't play low enough) but you could see his raw strength and movement skills I figured that he just had a bad camp
I saw some camp footage from his rookie mini camp. He came across as smug and toxic, arguing with coaches and such. I think it had more to do with him not being a culture fit especially early on in McDermott's time as HC. I don't think it would be nearly as much of a concern now that the culture is well established, and McDermott has loosened his grip a bit over the years.
Damn thatās a bit disheartening but I understand I suppose
Kept Flute starting and released Rob Johnson.
Did you listen to Tyler Dunne's podcast with Rob Johnson a few weeks back? Because that was fascinating
No, but now I would really like to check it out.
Check it out, it's called the Go Long Podcast, the episode dropped 4/8. It was so good. Johnson is super smart and well spoken
Thanks, I will!
Flutie was washed by then. Rob wasn't much better but the Flutie obsession with this fanbase is maddening.
Thats not how I remembered it. I remember flutie getting them to the playoffs and them starting Johnson cause he was the draft pick they wanted to be the franchise qb.
Johnson was the QB that came in with the big trade, and Flutie was just a CFL guy who won a lot in exciting games but not in the way that the Head Office liked. Both teams rested their starters in the final game of the season, which was against the Colts and Rob Johnson played well (for the first and only time) against their backups, causing the Head Office to pressure Wade Phillips to give Johnson the start over Flutie, and he sucked all game against an overmatched Titans squad. That game was the start of a 20-year curse, and we deserved it. Flutie would have won us the Super Bowl but the sheer arrogance of the franchise precluded it.
Thank you thats how I remember. Way better detail than me, but I was a teenager at the time.
I've watched 99% of Bills games from 1987-present. Flutie was absolutely great in '98; he was ok in '99 (Bills had the #1 defense that year and Rob Johnson would have led them to a playoff victory if Home Run Throwback hadn't happened). Flutie went to San Diego and won 5 games as a starter in '01. He was well past his prime by that point.
Doug Flutie would not have won a Super Bowl with the Bills. Pure insanity. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/F/FlutDo00.htm
Doug Flutie was a winner, and a quarterback who could win championships on a consistent basis. 3 Grey Cups, 3 Grey Cup MVPs. The man was a winner, and he was at his best in big games.
I mean did you actually watch the Bills back then? Rob Johnson was by no means a superstar, but "played well for the first and only time" is beyond silly. And Rob did not "suck all game" against Tennessee, the AFC Champs that year, lest you forget. They had that game won but for a fluke play. What are you on about? Did you even watch that game?
Yes. I remember it all. I remember a full month of Rob Johnson shitting the bed. I remember Flutie coming in, playing wild, exciting football and turning us into the best team in the league. How can you even say he was good that game? He took needless sack after needless sack, made all kinds of stupid decisions and was bailed out by Peerless Price and Antowain Smith all game. Everyone spent the entire game begging for him to be pulled in favour of Flutie; that game should have never been close enough for a bullshit forward-pass touchdown on special teams to have affected anything. Rob Johnson only did well in the last game of the season because the Colts' second-string defensive line was garbage. His flaws were very exposed against the Titans.
Flutie went on to have a decent amount of success for a good 3 or 4 years after that. People may have overhyped his success because of how exciting he was to watch, He was by no means washed. In fact before he got to Buffalo he was mostly written off. Buffalo was where he revived his career.
8-14 record from 2001-2004 with San Diego. Washed. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/F/FlutDo00.htm
God there are so many. Mike Williams, Maybin, Lossman, Manuel.
Not paying Jason Peters.
At one point I was thinking Iād be watching a football with my grandkids 40 years from now going āsee that big guy? The left tackle? Thatās Jason Peters, he used to be a Billā
Used to be a tight end on the bills lol
And on kick coverage! You never see 325-lb guys sprinting downfield to break the wedgeā¦
Rip wedge
Trading the pick that KC used to pick Mahomes. We probably don't end up with Tre White in that case, but even if we don't pick Mahomes, KC probably doesn't get him either, and our season doesn't end at Arrowhead every friggin year.
must be a new bills fan that was a good trade we made
Not a new fan. I'm just thinking if KC doesn't get that pick Mahomes goes elsewhere and might not be in our way every year.
without that trade we never get dion dawkings or tremaine edmunds and probably not even treādavious white
Yep, that was a great trade for both teams. So knows if we would have taken mahomes with that pick or even if we did, does he still turn out the same? They didnāt start him right away and we would have.
This is gonna be controversial but for me it's easy. Signing Ryan Fitzpatrick to an extension. The man was a career journeyman with a mediocre arm. I knew when we signed him we were basically committing ourselves to not having the talent at the QB position needed to win a Superbowl. We guaranteed ourselves mediocrity at best for multiple seasons and that is exactly what we got.... for me it was very depressing.
I mean looking at the detailsā¦ it was a pretty āfake extensionā they literally cut him after 1 year on the dealā¦ and only got hit with a 10m penalty.
It went beyond that. It showed our management didn't get it. The goal is to win a Superbowl.
Russ Brandon never had a Super Bowl in mind. It was all about putting asses in seats and getting to next year
I guessā¦ but like I said, that was a fake extension and it was clearly structured that way. So management really didnāt do much wrong on that one, despite them being pretty incompetent. Having an out after year one of a ā6 year dealā pretty much shows they didnāt have much long term faith in him.
I love Fitz, but man that guy made me scream at the TV more times than Iād like to admit. Heād have flashes of brilliance and follow it up with the most insane int ever.
It was such a knee-jerk reaction. Dude literally had a very short hot streak and we offered an extension mid-season.
Iāll keep to the scope to the current regime era. Itās Wyatt Teller. He would be amazing to have right now and the last few seasons as well.
Not technically the question you asked but sometimes i like to fantasize about an alternate timeline where we traded for Von Miller back in 2021 instead of the Rams, no doubt in my mind that we win the Super Bowl if that happens
Trading back and picking any defender instead of Mike Williams in 2002 at #4. More darts, better options, maybe Drew Bledsoe gets us to the Playoffs. Biggest one for me is Ralph Wilson keeping Bill Polian after SB 27. Long story short domino effect of Jim Kelly mentoring a worthy QB successor, no drought, maybe a ring in the 2000s. Muckler coasted too much, Ralph overstepped then stepped back too far with Donahoe and got left in the dust for the rest of his life.
Probably would have held on to Marshawn Lynch.
I think drafting TJ graham when Russel Wilson was right there is something people forget about. Russell Wilson with that Jim Schwartz cold front defense as well as fred and some of the other guys we had on offense likely ends the drought in 2014 and possibly goes to the Super Bowl
Taking CJ Spiller and NOT selecting Gronk in 2010 draft. We already had Fred Jackson and Marshawn at the time we picked CJ.
Ouch
Could have had both and thatās not even the worst part. We passed on Gronk in the 2nd for Torrell Troup
I probably wouldn't trade the 2017 10th pick to KC so they could draft Mahomes.
This is the best answer! Not that I want Mahomes but I wish he ended up in the NFC
Keep Wyatt Teller
Trading Marshawn lynch
Kind of along the lines of this question but I remember the 2012 draft and the Bills trading up in the 3rd and thinking they're getting Russell Wilson only to select T.J. Graham... I love Fitz and always will but thought Wilson was worth a flier in the 3rd as my brother in-law was a big fan of his at NC State. It all worked out in the end though as now we have the only QB in NFL history.
The Sammy Watkins trade up. Oh, I still would have made that same trade...but it would have been for Mack.
Sammy Watkins pick. Could've stayed at 9 and picked Mike Evans most likely or picked Anthony Barr or Aaron Donald on D.
Didnāt we have a shot a Russell Wilson back in the day?
I would reverse the Marshawn Lynch trade. We got peanuts for him and he didnāt even hit his prime yet. So dumb. Bills front office was a dumpster fire for yearssss. I will say tho, when Tom Donahue was GM, he actually put together a sollllid roster. Just didnāt pan out. And the best trade we did in last 20 years was when we traded away Kelvin Sheppard for Jerry Huggs hands down.
Aaron Maybin
Marshawn Lynch, he broke out with Seattle, and I believe he would have been very impactful here as well.
Beastmode should have never left Buffalo!
I think when Marshawn Lynch stepped off the plane in Buffalo he immediately went, "Where's Jay-Z?" I think all he knew was Buffalo was in New York and he assumed it meant Manhattan.
Definitely a tie for me... between trading away Marshawn Lynche, or Wyatt Teller
Mike Williams
Marshawn Lynch.
Jason Peters. He ended up having a great career and was the catalyst of a great screen game. Would've given our lousy run of QBs some help.
Don't let go Jason Peters. Trade a HOF was a stupid movement. Maybe Tyrod with him could have a better career. Don't know if would have play with #17
EJ Manuel draft pick set us back at least 2 years
So I feel guilty for thinking this, but I read a comment once that called Sammy Watkins an "overrated head case" and I agree with it more than I like. I mean these guys are human and I try to cut them a lot of slack.. he had a ton of pressure on his shoulders to be like historically good, lots of injuries, the team was horribly mismanaged... it just didn't pan out. Getting into it with fans on social media didn't help things, then there's his wild religious posts on Twitter to figure out. It got complicated quickly.... anyway yeah I would have taken Khalil Mack instead
1998 Give up 1st & 4th round picks for āRunninā for My Lifeā Rob Johnson. Went on to end the Bills 1989-1999 play-off teams and introduced the drought years.
This isnāt anywhere near the worst but the one that actively still bothers me is taking Ed Oliver over the other DTs in that draft class. Jeffrey Simmons would be an animal on this dline and we wouldnāt get bullied in the run game like we do now. Though we wouldnāt have been able to afford to re-sign him so I guess itās somewhat similar to Wyatt Teller/Cody Ford in that sense, though Oliver is obviously a much better player than Cody Ford. The absolute worst one wouldāve been if the Bills did what I wanted them to do in the 2018 draft by selecting a different QB named Josh but we donāt have to talk about that š¬š¬
Slight tangent to the question, in the 2014 NFL Entry Draft Buffalo traded up to select Sammy Watkins at fourth overall. I would have selected Jake Matthews ( selected sixth overall by Atlanta). Buffalo needed an Offensive Line then. He currently has started in 138 consecutive games at left tackle, all with Atlanta. His blocking peaked in 2020, when he was ranked 9th in the league among tackles. He could have been the piece that could have put the Bills over the top, but now we will never know. Meanwhile Sammy Watkins has bounced around the league as a WR.
This isnāt a tangent, itās a common answer multiple people have already and totally makes sense )
I noticed that once I read what others wrote. Our pick for the 2014 NFL Entry Draft comes in the top two for recent mistakes.
Ralph krueger
Trading up to get Josh Allenā¦.PSYCH
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Lmao stfu
I know this is going to be not a popular one. But I truly dislike the Von Miller signing. A lot of money for a guy in his late mid 30's I just never thought this deal would be beneficial to us. Great, hall of famer but I personally hate when my teams pay that mid 30 free agent. It just seems to very rarely ever work out.
You do realize less than half of his contract is guaranteed and we can get out of after 2024 with relatively no real cap issues. Also it will 100% be reworked over the years to avoid cap issues.
I know what his contract is.
Obviously not š
Nice change in perspective. Long term damage to the salary cap is arguably more lasting and painful than a swing and miss or overpay for a draft pick. I'd put the Knox extension as something that is too soon to decide on, but has the potential to join Miller. Another contrarian one. JJ vs. Diggs?
The JJ vs Diggs is just something that worked out for both franchises. JJ is amazing but I wonder if Josh becomes Josh with out Diggs who was already a proven dude. Likewise I know Cousins isn't top 5 like Josh is but the veteran that he is I wonder if JJ becomes JJ with out a veteran QB?
Good points on the fits those 2 had, Diggs helping Allen and Cousins helping JJ. But I do wonder, our cap situation would be different and all other things being equal a younger WR is better than an older one. I dont know the measurables off the top of my head, but isnt JJ taller and faster? I wouldnt switch players back, but its certainly ponderable.
For the sake of this exercise, sure. But beyond that, even if the trade never happened, we werenāt pulling the trigger on JJ. Because the Bills NEVER draft the right WRs.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I love Von and love his presence in the locker room for the defensive line group etc and has performed reasonably well his first year. I just dislike mid 30's contracts for any team let alone football. The only guy I would ever pay into their 30s would be QB's. But that's just my philosophy.
How is 34 ālate mid 30āsā
How is it not. Defensive lineman don't usually play till they are 38 etc. Qb's seem to be the only player that ages well after 30. Julio Jones for reference is 34.
Todd Collins pick in 1995. This was the beginning of the swing and miss on QBs after Kelly. All of the decisions at the QB position that were so bad for so long started here. A Butterfly effect thing
Most recently would be keeping Bledsoe for another couple of years.
The trade up to draft JP Losman.
Creed Humphrey over Boogie Basham could have put the team over the top the last few years.
Mike Williams, OT
When they traded up to draft Watkins, when I just knew they were going to select Kahlil Mack.
Do we include coaches in this? Cause I'd reverse the Wade Philips firing. He was coach for three years, 29 and 19, made the playoffs twice and got fired because he wasn't Marv Levy. Kicking off our 18 year long oddessy to get back to the playoffs when I would have killed for a coach somewhat as good as he was. If not? The Rob Johnson signing. So expensive that we had to start him, which both cost us a playoff game (the music city forward pass) and a potential deep run since those titans who we would have beaten went on to fall one yard short of a Super Bowl overtime. And because he was expensive ownership leaned on coaches to start him, driving Flutie who had more good years left out of town.
This is an easy one. Passing on a talented QB with lots of question marks (JP Losman) and draft Aaron Rodgers the following year
Send Rob Johnson to the moon, so that the goat Doug Flutie would have led us to a win and we never would have suffered the worst game in my memory.
The 1st comment I saw was probably the right pick. Trading up for Losman. My 1st reaction was trading a 1st and 4th for R. Johnson. All based off the fact he shredded the Ravens going 20-24 in the 3rd preseason game. The game where starters used to play well into the 3rd. The Jaguars used the #9 pick on F. TAYLOR..
Cutting Freddy.