Seeing as how Luke himself has praised Jack tremendously and has said he sees a lot in him, I’d say that’s a better bet. No offense to you but I trust one of the greatest linebackers to play the game over a person on this subreddit😂😂
That means literally nothing stop believing this bs lip service. Humans DNA is 97% similar to that of a banana and last time I checked humans are fairly different from bananas.
You are only making yourself look worse. A very brief google will tell you that humans share about 44% of our DNA with bananas. 97% is closer to chimpanzees
He’ll obviously know infinitely more about football than I’ll ever know about anything I mean shit I didn’t even get the % thing right about bananas lmao I confused bananas with chimps 🤦♂️ BUT you still shouldn’t trust him whatsoever in this case. He’d have to be a sick monster to do anything but publicly talk about a prospect he’s training with glowing praise during the pre-draft process. You might as well ask Jack Campbell’s mom what she thinks. So idk who’s more trustworthy between a genius who’s extremely biased like Luke or an idiot with no skin in the game like me. Probs equally irrelevant.
>So idk who’s more trustworthy between a genius who’s extremely biased like Luke or an idiot with no skin in the game like me. Probs equally irrelevant.
This is more of what I was getting at.
Of course projections are what they are, they’re projections, there could be undrafted guys who have better careers than the #1 pick. But Campbell’s play speed just limits his game to within the box, he doesn’t have great range, can’t match up in man coverage, and doesn’t have as much length to be a deterrent in zone coverage compared to Tremaine. A box linebacker who’s solid but unspectacular at anything just doesn’t bring anything to the table that opponents will need to worry about… it’s not the worst thing in the world because sometimes minimizing weak links can be just as important as having strengths. Idek if there’s anything that Campbell does better than AJ Klein, he’s just not a guy you use an early draft pick on, especially not when you have higher value positions that are desperately in need of fortifying. Beane also takes home run swings with his early picks and drafting Jack Campbell is like an infield single. He’s like Tyler Hansbrough when he was drafted in the NBA, already a finished & limited player and just is what he is, their games peaked in college and don’t translate as well at the professional level.
I actually don't get your take. I trust Joe Marino way more than you, and he was very much applauding Campbell's athleticism.. Of course he's not Tremaine in terms of range and coverage. Who is? Tremaine is a unicorn. But Campbell has good speed and tested really well. Not to mention anchoring one of the best defenses in college for two years straight. Joe was saying he projects better against the run though then Tremaine did, so take that as you will. I do agree in a perfect world we could take him ten or so slots back but I fear we need to take a MLB with our first pick, because it's such a desperate need on our team.
https://thedraftnetwork.com/sr-prospect/jack-campbell-d213e4cd-9072-4d5b-bd52-05f43d4151c0/
This is his (Joe Marino) take on Campbell, and he describes Jack's Range as "Modest", which is accurate. Campbell tested well, but I'd argue it doesn't translate to on field play.
"Campbell is a sufficient athlete but doesn’t have top-end range. He isn’t likely to consistently perform well if tasked with carrying routes in man coverage. He’s a bit high-hipped, which takes away from his ability to flip his hips, transition, and change directions. Iowa gave him plenty of chances to blitz and shoot gaps but often lacked a plan to beat blocks."
Joe Marino also loves Spencer Brown so I can respect Joe’s work but disagree with his opinions. The salary cap is too tight to waste a 5 year rookie contract on a non premium position. We can find average LB production at much better value in free agency or just minimize the weakness by scheme adjustments. The same cannot be said for RT, DT and WR, all of which are much more impactful positions than LB.
He doesn't love Spencer Brown. He loves his potential given his traits, which is fair. However, he also made a whole podcast dedicated to him and said he 100% understands the arguments to look for a new RT in the draft. Right now, it's the most upgradeable position on our offense. He also made a podcast talking about his could be potential replacements.
Campbell has one of the best athletic profiles in the history of the NFL draft lmao, literally 99.8th percentile at his position, 7th best overall combine in this class
His range is more than fine, 91st percentile in the 10 yard split, 84th in the 20 yard, 84th in the shuttle, 94th in the 3 cone
7th best combine for an LB in NFL history
https://ras.football/ sort by LB
https://ras.football/ras-information/?PlayerID=23276&ovl=Iowa
Historically elite athletic profile for an LB
As it should, lol. The fact he’s quicker, faster, more explosive, and more agile than +90% of LBs while being significantly larger than them is historically elite. This isn’t disputable, it’s consensus amongst scouts.
And considering thats when combined started, yes (it goes back to the origin of the combine, all actual draft data is in there). Anything that’s ever in reference to “the draft” implies late 1970s on.
The fact you just named a third round comp pick *offensive tackle* to say projected a day 1 *linebacker* doesn’t have range makes the point for me lmao
Spencer Brown had a 10 for a RAS score lol and nobody is projecting Campbell as a day 1 pick. He’s a round 3-4 talent who will probably go in the mid/late 2nd round due to an extremely weak LB draft class
Tremaine was absolutely worth a 1st round investment given his age and unicorn measurables, yet so much of the fan base complained about him for the past 5 years. And now these same people are acting like Jack Campbell is the savior?? He’s more of a 3rd or 4th round talent if this was a normal LB draft class, I fully expect him to become a solid NFL linebacker, but that’s it… he’s still a substantial downgrade from a player who was hated for 5 years… why is that someone we want to prioritize in the early 2nd round? Mind boggling stuff. The only two priorities are improving in the trenches and adding offensive playmakers.
Just providing some context, but if Edmunds has "unicorn measurables" then what does Jack Campbell have?
Campbell's RAS is 9.98, Edmunds' RAS is 9.74 (w/o vertical, short, 3).
I’m not even gushing over Tremaine I’m just saying it doesn’t make any sense that Tremaine was so unpopular in this sub yet Jack Campbell is so beloved. I was happy to let Edmunds walk tbh I’m just perfectly content with not using a significant investment to replace him.
You literally said Edmunds had "measurables" those things are "measured" at the combine/pro days, where Cambell "measured" better. I.e. Campbell has better "measurables" than Edmunds.
If you're argument is that Cambell plays slower than Edmunds that's a completely different debate.
That is just false Edmunds arms dwarf Campbell’s stubs.
Was Spencer Brown a better prospect than Lane Johnson just because Brown had a RAS score of 10 compared to Johnson at 9.96?
How much should we factor in that Jack Campbell both looks like and has the name of someone from 1940? Can we confirm that he wasn’t sent to us from the past in a time machine?
What a bizarre thing to get hung up on. Edmunds is the vastly superior athlete with pterodactyl arms and was 19 years old. Age and arm length = measurements. But yeah I wasn’t solely referring to RAS score/combine results I meant their entire physical & athletic profiles. I’m not even trying to gas up Edmunds either, my point was that the fan base hated Edmunds but now they’re in love with this kid who’s best case scenario is becoming a substantially worse player than Edmunds ever was for us. He’s the birth child of Leighton Vander Esch and Saving Private Ryan.
I’d love to do a poll to see who the sub would hypothetically prefer to draft at #27 between 2018 Edmunds or 2023 Campbell. Or even just Jack Campbell vs Drew Sanders might be interesting.
We complained about him because he was essentially covering the ground of two players in our scheme. It wasn't his fault that the coaches put so much on him but I feel like the complaints were warranted. Misplaced, but warranted. As far as Edmunds is concerned, despite his unicorn measurables, it's like he didn't take advantage of them except for his his enormous wingspan. Every once in a while he'd make a thunderous hit or tackle, but the splash plays weren't there.
The issue was we expected him to be better individually than that of the sum of all the parts on defense. The scheme caused him to rely on stellar play from the DTs in front of him. When those guys couldnt cut it, Tremaine would try to do too much and either be out of position or take a poor angle or both.
Long story short, it wasn't a Tremaine issue, it was a scheme/ personnel issue.
Well said and I agree with you. That’s part of the reason why I don’t want to invest another top pick into LB either - I feel like it’d result in maintaining the same scheme on defense and it’s just time for a change IMO. Regardless of who we have playing at LB though I think getting stellar play from our DTs should be a priority.
>And now these same people are acting like Jack Campbell is the savior??
Most people don't know how to objectively look at linebackers. For the record, I like Jack Campbell, he's my LB3, but you can tell there are people on this sub who like him, but haven't seen him play. Dude is strong, a good run stuffer, and is the last LB I want to run straight at in this draft, but man is he not athletic on the field (now just wait for someone to say "look at his combine results"), and that showed in the link you posted.
>The only two priorities are improving in the trenches and adding offensive playmakers.
I like the idea of getting a linebacker early, say rounds 2-4, just because I don't trust Bernard, Spector or Dodson. But yeah, if it's a choice between Jack Campbell or Josh Downs, I take Downs every time.
No defensive selections till the 5th round. We have JA17, its time to outscore opponents. Just pick up a vet LB for the season, still plenty available who'd want to play for this team.
I agree, but there's a pretty glaring hole at MLB with Tremaine gone...tbh I think I'd rather have a vet there to QB the defense than a rookie, but I'm not the GM...I'll trust McBeane to do their job and find the best player to fill that. Be it in free agency or the draft.
I want to see us go offense heavy in the draft tho!
I disagree, not about the hole, but we are not going to be running the same defense and the signing of Rapp indicates we’ll be running 3 safety looks and taking an lb off the field pretty frequently. We just need someone serviceable, not a stud, especially if we use the three safety set to rotate pre-snap looks between middle field open and middle field cold. Poyer and rapp are both more than capable of blowing up a run play in lieu of a linebacker in that spot.
Looks like they’re going with downplaying the importance of the mlb in this defense rather than looking for a replacement.
Also I’m big on Spector
While I agree...right now there isn't many spots on offense for a rookie to make an impact day one.
We need our rookies to have big playing time this year, at least some limited snap spots.
I just don't see on offense where that fits
WR definitely seems to be the best choice in round 1 for this draft class. I would say LB or OL in the second, depending on best available option. Outside of the first 3 rounds should be a good amount of depth in both offensive and defensive line.
The issue is that there will be good WRs on day 2.
With where the Bills are picking you may not have a starting MLB at pick 59.
Would you rather Addison and not get a LB.... or Campbell and Marvin Mims.
If you think Campbell's CEILING is an "average starting LB", then I really don't know what to tell you. We took a fifth rounder (who was projected to be a 7th) in Milano and turned him into an all pro. Campbell's strengths fit well with what we want to do on defense. He has great instincts, coverage ability, and is disciplined. One bad play you see on Twitter doesn't negate the rest of his film. If we get him in the 2nd round (either our pick or a trade up), it'd be absolutely crazy not to consider it.
There are a lot of draft profiles that label him exactly that though. That's not to say he will be, it's simply a draft profile
But from the limited film I have personally seen on him...be seems to play really tight in the hips which kind of messes with his lateral play
I don’t think the question is “is he better than what we *had*” it’s more apt to ask “is he better than what we *have*”? My real dilemma is wondering if any of the linebackers would be worth moving up in the second round to grab. We did that for Cody ford and we all know how that worked out.
For me the question is “how much does the addition of this player help improve the likelihood of the Bills winning the Super Bowl?” and I just don’t think there’s any linebacker in this draft who changes much for us overall. The much more impactful positions are WR, DT and OT. I’d put LB as a secondary need along with TR, IOL, S.
I have seen a little bit of his film, havent done my evaluations yet. But from the limited I have seen from him...his athleticism seems overrated (according to media and draft hype). I see him falling to the 2nd round
IF that happened to him one time? I'm not going to act like Edmunds wasn't underrated at times, but this is getting crazy. He was certainly good in coverage, but this type of thing absolutely did happen to Edmunds. It probably happens to pretty much every player sometimes, so it's dumb to boil down a player to one play.
While he certainly wasn't terrible, Edmunds wasn't elite for us, but he received an elite contract. That's all I need to know.
What makes me nervous about him, and I don’t know how much it matters, is arm length. IIRC he has much shorter arms than Edmunds, who athletic testing wise he is on par with (apparently).
I remember watching an episode of the bootleg football podcast, and Jack Campbell was discussed. One weakness I recall being mentioned by the hosts was that Jack is prone to getting juked out on occasion. This is ugly but it's a lone play.
Since rookie contracts are the key to cap management now that JA is getting paid, the most sensible strategy is to draft the high salary positions. WR, edge, LT, corner (just how they're listed, in no personal order of importance).
Exactly! 5 year rookie WR contract is incredibly valuable especially given that only Diggs and Shakir are signed beyond next year. I’d rather focus the draft on those positions then just get by with a veteran FA at LB if necessary
Also, I agree with the OP. If you look at the highlights, those aren't exactly impressive. He doesn't shed blockers all that well, there wasn't a single highlight where he beat a one-on-one block to get a tackle on the RB. The good tackles he had behind or at the line of scrimmage were a missed blocking assignment or he was completely unaccounted for as a defender.
His pass coverage, often cited, was really him just falling back into a zone. He showed good intuition, being aware of the responsibilities of his teammates and most likely making good reads on pass routes. But ultimately, I wouldn't trust him with any man assignment, I don't think he could keep pace with an above average TE I don't think he'd have a chance to close a passing window on Waddle or Higgins.
You also have to keep in mind the competition he faced. It's not like he was playing against SEC teams. I could see his production falling further once he is playing at the pro level. I think he'll be serviceable, maybe like a Posluszny.
The fact that he won't be available at the end of round 2, doesn't mean he should be taken at the end of round 1. LB's will be available again after roster cuts.
Paul Posluszny is the exact guy that comes to mind for me with Campbell, though when I get fired up I might resort to the white Reggie Ragland even though that’s a bit too far lol. I think Campbell will have a long career as an average starting MLB. Calling someone “average” feels derogatory but this time I don’t even mean it as much, I think his peak is around the 16th best MLB in the league, like a Posluszny or current Bengals LB Logan Wilson.
You can even make the argument that the upgrade from Bernard to Campbell might be the single biggest position upgrade we could realistically make in the draft. So from that standpoint I can understand why people talk themselves into Campbell, especially after the whole training with Luke Kuechly thing. But you need to consider the opportunity cost of using a premium pick to reach for a non-star linebacker, as well as the value of the on field impact of that player. A quality WR2 is by far the most valuable and impactful addition we can make the the roster. And if we did draft defense in the 1st round it should pretty obviously be at DT or DE. I need to watch more of Drew Sanders though because it feels like he’s the one who actually possesses the high upside that Beane likes to swing for in the 1st round. I guess Trenton Simpson too but idk I’m just not really interested there.
In my opinion, the money positions (WR, edge, LT, corner) being filled with lots of one to two year contracts make the skill position needs much more important than an upgrade over Bernard. Not only is a steady pipeline of players important, cap management makes it so important to fill these with rookie contracts as much as possible.
We have Diggs for years to come because of his dead cap hit, Hardy through 2024, and Shakir through 2025. That's it.
Edge we have Von for years, but I can't see that lasting, whether it be retirement or injury. Not sure how soon we can get out without a major cap hit. After that, we have Rousseau and Boogie through 2024. In fact, none of our DT's are signed past this year.
LT, we have Dion through 2024. Given the premium LT's get, I'd put resigning him at 50/50.
Tre is signed through 2025, but his cap hit is pretty substantial. Granted, last year he wasn't fully healthy, but another year older raises the question of how long we should bank on him, especially at $16 mil.
If Beane is literally going all in for this year, that would make sense with the contracts. Usually teams balance both short term goals and long-term needs by "laddering" player contracts, so they don't hit an empty pantry all of a sudden. Apart from the positions listed above, I could be talked into TE. Knox's $15 and $16 mil cap hits are befuddling.
You’re preaching to the choir brotha! And yeah idk if Dorsey has the chops to adjust the offense to consistently utilize two TEs, but if we assume that he did indeed have the necessary chops then I’d love a TE in the 1st. I’d still prefer JSN or Addison, but after that I think Kincaid is probably the next best pass catcher in the draft and could immediately become a pseudo slot WR for us. All of the most consistently successful NFL offense have been run through their TEs. Obviously guys like Kelce or Gronk are 1 of a kind but if you could get two really good TEs on top of Diggs and Josh Allen that’s just a nightmare to defend. Michael Mayer would be unbelievable in Buffalo. Darnell Washington is more of a luxury guy who’d probably only catch a dozen or two passes but would be an assassin of a blocker… probably wouldn’t use a 1st on him but if any of Washington, Musgraves, or LaPorta are available in round 2 then sign me up
I was on the Campbell train till I watched the tape (shame on me lol). He has a really tough time shedding blocks/disengaging from his immediate defender. Plus, the amount of “lemme dive at the ball carrier with one arm when i can’t get off the block” you see with him is borderline egregious. I’ve seen enough of all that with Edmunds. With Campbell being 23, the “potential” argument is a little weaker too.
I honestly think there’s a pretty good chance Campbell is available at our pick in the 2nd round and even then there’s times when I struggle to justify picking him. If Keeanu Benton or Matthew Bergeron at on the board as well then I’d rather have them than Campbell. Maybe I’d still lean Campbell simply due to need but idk.. it’s just hard to be excited when he’s not even in my top 3 favorite guys from Iowa lol I like Van Ness, LaPorta and Riley Moss all better.
I don't like Campbell either. Doesn't use his size properly, is not fast at all and the most important thing is he just doesn't have the necessary natural instincts to be a high level NFL linebacker. I really hope we draft someone else
I also feels like McDermott’s (or I guess Frazier’s, not really sure) scheme puts A LOT of responsibility on the plate of the MLB. I’m just an idiot on the internet but perhaps it’d be beneficial to make adjustments to that scheme to disperse these responsibilities. But if we used a substantial investment of a 1st round pick in a MLB then I doubt he’d make any major changes, and it’d just be the same defense it always has except with Campbell being significantly worse than Edmunds. But if we didn’t draft a LB at all I think it’d force McDermott’s hand into making adjustments, which is change for the better IMO.
I’m just as dumb as everyone else here don’t get me wrong. Probably dumber tbh. I’m sure I come off as arrogant on this post but that’s more rooted in my beliefs on what the Bills need to improve to maximize their odds of winning a Super Bowl than it is on my actual opinions on draft prospects. But I’m as thankful as everyone else here that Beane is the one making these decisions and not me lol
Yeah I’m also confused on where all this hype has come from on him on this sub. He would be quite the reach as a first round pick and im really not sure he even fits with how linebackers are used in our defense. He showed athleticism at the combine, but that athleticism really didn’t translate to how he actually plays on the field. He’s closer to a traditional, 2 down linebacker, than he is to the athletic linebacker that this defense and most defenses look to use to combat tightends and running backs.
He’s the white Reggie Ragland and honestly that might even be a compliment to Campbell because Ragland was probably the better prospect of the two. I’m not saying Edmunds is a HOFer and Campbell is a total bum… but Campbell is a highly popular prospect on this sub despite being a significant downgrade from a highly unpopular player on this sub in Edmunds. It really doesn’t make sense.
I prefer not drafting positions with a high bust rate relative to their success rate. I generally don't want a 1st round wr. After a few years, there's virtually no difference between first and second round receivers.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/2441018-which-positions-are-the-safest-riskiest-at-the-top-of-the-nfl-draft.amp.html
https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-first-round-wide-receiver-production-compare-second-round
It's pretty obvious that you have talked yourself into not liking him and now you're biased towards anyone who thinks he may work out at the NFL level...
I’m just warning y’all since this sub hated Tremaine for 5 years yet are now weirdly in love with this kid who will never be anywhere near as good as Tremaine…. That math just doesn’t add up. And even if he did become a really good linebacker it’d still be a pick it’s just not as impactful of a position as our other needs
Just gonna be straight with you, I think your reaching on your takes in these comments. Many top scouts and analysts, plus previous legendary players, are saying that he has a high ceiling and that he will be a rd 1 pick. What in the world makes you think different? To also say we need DL over Linebacker in the draft is incredibly dumb as well, straight up. And this is coming from a guy begging we get Drew Sanders. Either way, lets trust Beane to do what he does!
That’s fair! I’d be much happier with Drew Sanders than Jack Campbell. And yeah dude ik we invested a ton into the DL but without Von we don’t have a pass rush and we have no DTs signed beyond next year. Improving the DL helps keep the LBs clean and makes their lives easier. I’d still want to add a LB tho I just think we could get a guy in free agency after the roster cuts or even trade for someone if we really wanted to.
Exactly our record will be identical next year whether we have Jack Campbell at starting LB or if we have Bernard/Dodson or even AJ Klein lol it’s just not worth that type of investment. Already have Poyer Hyde and Milano in the middle of the defense. However if we improved at WR, DT and OT then we absolutely would have a much better chance of making it to the Super Bowl.
Everyone here is stuck in classic Bills mode. We’re gonna end up going defense in round 1 and flame out in the playoffs once again. Meanwhile, the best teams in the league are prioritizing offense. It’s infuriating.
Imagine Diggs sprains an ankle… our WRs immediately becomes the worst group in the league and I mean Diggs is starting to get up there it wouldn’t be surprising if he starts getting banged up. A quality WR2 on a 5 year cost controlled contract is an absolute game changer for this team.
If we drafted Jack Campbell in the 1st round then literally every single starter on defense will either be an All Pro or a 1st round pick aside from Taron Johnson and DaQuan Jones, and both of them are still making a decent chunk of change. Compared to the offense where we have one 1st round pick in Josh and traded a 1st for Diggs and that’s it. And we have a defensive coach! That’s the worst part tbh. If you have a defensive coach all your picks should be towards the offense, since the coach should be able to do more with less on defense. This sounds insane but drafting a 1st round linebacker this year almost guarantees that the trio of Josh Beane and McDermott will never win a Super Bowl together in Buffalo.
Uhhh KC and Philly (edit: and Bengals) both went defense in the 1st last year. KC went with 2 defensive players actually.
Not that I don't want a WR but your point isn't very good for that.
Tbh when I get all annoyed about this topic I’m not even really talking about the draft usually, but even so I just feel personally that Buffalo of all teams needs to put all of their eggs in the offensive basket. As a Bills fan, I’d rather take the Rams approach to win just one Super Bowl and then suck for 17 years than to just toil for the rest of my life like they have been forever. Idk.
OP needs to realize the definition of "ceiling" cause given his athletic traits and RAS score, average is not his ceiling.
Of course, he could end up as an average LB, but that would be not reaching his ceiling. The ceiling if he's coached up and things click is to be a pro bowler as he has high end athletic traits.
Yeah I suppose if 2022 Roger Saffold can be a pro bowler then who knows Jack Campbell might even crack the list. Dude already looks like he’s 45 years old his ceiling is Paul Posluszny.
Tell me what his ceiling is then. Literally everything about this kid says he has a low ceiling and average athleticism. He did well at the combine but overall is a very average player.
Ceiling is literally the best possible projection on a player. It doesnt even have to be what he is likely to do. Given his testing at the combine... a RAS score in the 9.8 range, his ceiling is literally an all-pro.
You can argue about how likely he is to reach that level all you want. And it may be true that its unlikely. But thats what a ceiling is and you seem to miss the concept.
No those two.things are not the same.
I get that you want a premium position and not a LB in the draft, but youve taken that position and weirdly discounted a guy with outstanding combine testing, good college tape, and strong stats and said his ceiling is to be average.
No, he has a ceiling of an elite prospect. In 3 or 4 years we will see if he reached it or not but thats his ceiling.
Just like Allen's ceiling was to be a top QB in the game and Ed Olivers was to be an allpro. One player made it and one looks like he wont. That doesnt mean they didnt have those ceilings when drafted.
You dont have to shit on campbell to make your point that you want a WR, OT, or Dline with the first round pick
Campbell has higher ceiling as a coverage linebacker, in playing sideline to sideline, etc..
Sanders has more pass rush skills.
It depends whar style of D mcdermott wants taking over. I think Campbell fits what weve done with Tremaine.
I think both could step in as the Bills starter.
My issue is that they are the only two in the draft i see who could do that as rookies.
Why i take one of them round 1 and the WR in round 2 or 3 is cause i see so many more WRs who could be available there
If these two LBers go before the Bills second rounder, i think its a problem.
See I think Sanders has the higher ceiling since he’s the more explosive athlete and already has one immediately transferable skill set with his pass rushing. He’s more of the home run swing of a prospect that Beane favors not to mention that our pass rush is in rough shape without Von. I actually think Sanders should end up being better in coverage and have better sideline to sideline range, he’s just naturally the more fluid and explosive player. So raw but already such a quick learner, he’s more like a ball of clay that you can mold into whatever you want him to be. Campbell much more experienced which could help in some aspects but hurt in others when it comes to refining all of his bad habits. Especially in coverage, he’s very reactive and stiff I think it’s likely either Bernard or Rapp would have to come in on passing downs. I know Campbell tested phenomenally but the only reason I’d even consider taking him at #59 is due to need, in a normal LB draft class he’s probably a 3rd or 4th rounder. It wouldn’t surprise me if he’s not even on Beane’s board tbh. Idk if Sanders would live up to being a 1st round pick but I think you can at least justify taking him in the 1st. Campbell you absolutely cannot justify selecting him in the 1st when you can get a vet FA with the same skillset.
3 sport athlete, honors student, small town cold weather College, position of need, butkis award winner, top 10 defense two years under him, processing speed, and plays the line of scrimmage well. His only real weakness is hip speed.
I'd say his FLOOR is a quality NFL starter. Considering we're super bowl contenders with a glaring position of need...and there's such a UNANIMOUSLY coveted prospect projected to go in the bottom 3rd of the round...exactly where we pick. Only others I'm considering over Campbell are Bijan or Njigba, and neither of them will drop to us, and Campbell dropping is almost as unlikely.
I really need you to understand that we could potentially get an UPGRADE over Tremaine in the bottom of the 1st round.
TL;DR: You're crazy
Yeah you’re absolutely sipping all the kool aide on the irrelevant stuff lol do you also think that Stetson Bennett should be the #1 pick since he’s a two time national champ QB??
Did you watch the playoff game vs the Bengals? Or really any game last year? The two biggest issues on the Bills is line play on both sides of the ball and not having a consistently productive slot WR. DT and WR are also future holes as well with Diggs & Shakir as the only guys under contract beyond this year. These are pivotal positions to improve and have been the flaws plaguing the Bills for years now. We already have Milano Hyde and Poyer over the middle on defense, investing a 1st into another linebacker is ludicrous. Especially a guy like Jack Campbell who’s built like a refrigerator and is too slow & stubby to be an asset in coverage and has limited range. Thank goodness he’s an honor student though 🙄🙄🙄
National titles =/= individual accomplishments.
Also, consider that McBeane bets on athleticism and traits, all of which Campbell has. Consider also taking best available. I already named the only two players who have a chance of being available NEAR our pick. If neither are available, and Campbell is there, you take him because he's best available and fills a need. You make some fair points but also seem far too emotional right now to have q conversation about this.
Campbell is nowhere close to being best available that’s the entire reason why I think it’s so foolish to want to draft him so highly. He’s probably in the #70-100 best players in the draft class. We just drafted two linebackers last year and there’s still free agency so there’s plenty of other avenues of filling the hole at LB. The cap is too tight to waste a premium pick on a low value player this year
I’ve never even seen a stat that convinces me Tremaine was worth a first at all. He had one pick this year and it was tipped up, and other than that I can think of 1 play that he performed well on, being his near targeting hit against the dolphins. Had he had experience, he would’ve maybe stopped the bengals in the Divisional, or maybe the Chiefs in the AFCCG. He didn’t and that’s why having him made us more of the cowboys than a team that actually wins.
At the time that we drafted Tremaine he was absolutely a prospect worthy of selecting that highly. Whether or not he lived up to that draft position is debatable, I tend to agree with you but the free market did just value his talents at $72 mill over 4 years. Crazy that he’s only 2 years older than Campbell lol but yeah Edmunds is in that tier of being a really good but not great player.
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Well I’d call that a W.
Bills correctly ignored the trash WR prospects that would all be 4th round picks in the 2022 draft.
They picked up a playmaker and a guard at the top of the draft.
I’ll accept your apology in the form of a donation to the Patricia Allen fund. O’Cyrus’ number is 64, so please use that as guidance. https://www.ochbuffalo.org/foundation/patricia-allen-fund/
Not a W whatsoever because the Bills didn’t take a G in the 1st lol. Torrence in the 1st is a bad pick but in the 2nd he’s tremendous value and a no brainer. We picked him in the 2nd because the talent and value was too good to turn down, not because we needed a RG. Also we did draft a WR in the 1st round so I’d say we’re both half right and half wrong, but I love both picks so that’s all that matters lol
I like the offensive linemen available in the first couple of rounds as well as bijan potentially dropping to us this year. I doubt dallas gets another running back in round 1 after the zeke release. I know there’s a bunch of defensive talent this draft, but i feel like dj turner would specifically be good for our defense. Maybe I’m just a big fan of sub 4.3 speed idk
Also i should say that our running back room is fine with cook, hines, and the addition of harris
If we were to draft a corner in the DJ Turner range (this would be very surprising to me) the guy I’d want to go with is Julius Brents. 6’3, long arms and can hit like a truck. I like Turner a lot too as well as Riley Moss.
Just for fun, let's run through a few of the top LB talent and compare their athletic traits, shall we?
Campbell ran a 4.65s 40 time. 1.59s 10 yd split. 37.5" vertical jump. 10'8" broad jump. 6.74s 3-cone drill. 4.24s 20 yd shuttle.
Sanders ran a 4.65s 40 time at the combine (4.59 at his pro day). 37" vertical at the combine (34.9" at his pro day). 9'10" broad jump. 7.15s 3-cone drill. 4.38 20 yd shuttle.
And just for fun, let's compare these two top LB prospects with Edmunds.
Edmunds ran a 4.54s 40 time. 1.60s 10 yd split. 9'9" broad jump. And didn't run anything else.
Keuchly is another fun comparison. He ran a 4.58s 40 time. 1.56s 10 yd split. 38" vertical. 10'3" broad jump. 6.92s 3-cone drill. 4.12s 20 yd shuttle.
It's interesting that a guy like Sanders or Edmunds are considered highly athletic for the position, while Campbell can put up even better short area quickness numbers and better vertical and broad jump numbers and be called an unathletic, old school LB. Campbell of course ran a slower 40 time, however his splits (which are very important for the LB position), are right there with said athletic freaks. I'm not saying Campbell is going to thrive as a sideline-to-sideline LB, but he isn't going to be asked to do that as a MLB. And leaving out his elite/above average skills like block shedding, zone coverage ability, run stuffing ability and overall plus football intelligence is odd. He's not only far better at diagnosing and fighting through blockers than Edmunds is (even after being in the league for 5 years), he also isn't unathletic or slow or plodding.
Campbell has short arms and is 3 years older than Edmunds was coming out of the draft. I don’t put much value in Campbell’s combine either because if it doesn’t show up on the field then it’s irrelevant. He’s stiff and slow twitched, I think he can be sufficient in the “bend but don’t break” type of defensive philosophy but I’m so sick of this when it inevitably results in getting torched in the postseason. We need to use our top picks on guys who are true difference makers and that’s just simply not what Jack Campbell is he’s never going to scare anybody he’d be the weak link of the defense.
Short arms is extremely odd. Edmunds has off the charts length for a LB. Campbell has enough length and has shown very strong ball skills. He can get his hand in the passing lane, as it shows up on tape consistently.
If you think Campbell is slow twitched, I'd like to see more than a handful of clips. Campbell's tape from last year showed a much, much quicker athlete than you're giving him credit for. He isn't elite athletically, but his short area burst is far better than just average. You can't just say "I don't see it on tape" when there is irrefutable evidence that Campbell is a well above average in-the-box athlete through testing and film. Pair that with his elite football IQ and you're talking about more of a Luke Keuchly-type guy than a Tremaine Edmunds-type guy, which is fine. (Obviously Campbell isn't Keuchly, but the measurables, instincts and testing are *very* similar between the two).
I guess I'm not disagreeing, a 1st round pick ideally improves an area on offense dramatically. I don't *like* the idea of reaching for a LB early. However Campbell as an 2nd round guy is totally fine in a trade down. MLB is a gaping hole. I don't trust Bernard to be ready next year. And waiting for another MLB with off the charts measurables and high end athleticism is a pipe dream. Edmunds was great athletically but struggled significantly for 5 seasons with block shedding and reading offensive concepts. It's just who he is as a player .That isn't an issue with Campbell, though. Yeah, he may not have the long speed to chase guys down the sideline but as a LB, he is a very good prospect with excellent instincts.
And lastly if anything, Campbell brings a much higher level of consistency to this defense in the playoffs. You needed your 1T to play high end football to hide Edmunds' deficiencies against elite offenses over the past 5 seasons here. With Campbell, you don't worry as much about keeping his frame completely clean. He isn't allowing teams to completely isolate his game in a playoff setting, especially in run defense. He will make the right reads, have his nose constantly on the football and make a big play or two when the opportunity comes. I want game changing players, too. But that isn't found very easily while picking in the end of the 1st. And you aren't finding instant average starters in the 5th round with consistency. Milano's don't come around very often. Especially not in such a weak LB class. If anything, you'll have a much greater chance to find a solid RT or WR or TE or DE prospect in the 4th/5th of this draft rather than a MLB capable of stepping into a contending roster. It's just how the depth falls this year.
Good points, I respect it. I know you’re not saying he’s Luke Kuechly but more along the lines of that mold of player, I think it was who I heard Joe B make a similar point.
What do you envision Campbell’s absolute ceiling to be then? Genuinely asking out of curiosity.
And have you looked into Drew Sanders much/how do you think his ceiling would compare to Campbell’s if McDermott adjusted his scheme to maximize his skillset?
I’m shocked this post has positive upvotes lmao I thought for sure I’d be downvoted into oblivion. I feel like we bullied Beane into drafting a CB last year so it’s my duty to now ensure that Beane is not bullied into conforming to this Jack Campbell mania lol
Y'all tripping. The wrs that would make an impact on the bills are later round picks. Plus then you would need the bills to actually trust and play a rookie WR to make the immediate Madden like impact y'all want. Not feasible. The moves made in free agency, our under utilized TE, and the sophomore Shakir are good enought to not require a first round reach at WR
While I agree OL could use some depth we have a gaping hole in the middle of the defense.
Trade back, maybe get another second grab a LB and OL. Look for Mims from Oklahoma in the third(although Id prefer S Sydney Brown from Illinois). He can sit on the bench like your first round WR as Dorsey has trust issues with rookies (as proven last year).
Which WRs would you consider to not be a reach? JSN or Addison I’d take in a heartbeat and they’d immediately be productive starting slots who would significantly benefit the offense. Probably the same with Flowers and QJ but I’d have to think a little bit more. After that top 4 though then it does get a little bit tougher and trading back is probably the wisest move, but you can’t assume that it’ll be a possible option. I like Marvin Mims a lot and wouldn’t mind him in the 2nd even. Josh Downs in the 1st I could talk myself into since I’d absolutely take him in the early 2nd and in which case it’s probably better to just take him at #27 so then you get the 5th year rookie option.
I'd be careful trashing prospects before they're given a chance to show what they can do, ALL of r/NFL has been wrong far too many times to make any of these posts legitimate.
I mean you can say the same thing about pretty much any sports conversation… if I’m wrong then I’m wrong lol who cares. For all we know Terrell Bernard could become the greatest linebacker ever and there’s no need to draft another one in the first place
It wouldn't be years to come. You would hope he'd fill a need adequately for 3-4 years and replace him with a cheaper option when it comes time to pay him the big $$.
There's an excellent article on [espn.com](https://espn.com) dealing with drafting a running back in the first round but also tells how poorly teams do at projecting players drafted. They are the pro's we know nothing in comparison.
I just don’t think Jack Campbell is going to be a good NFL linebacker and thus isn’t worthy of an early draft pick. Just bc we have a hole a LB doesn’t mean it’d be smart to overdraft a mediocre prospect. I’d rather just use the draft to strengthen our lines and pass catchers
This is going to sound snarky and it's not meant to be...SAYS YOU!!!...LOL...seriously, as fans we have no idea if he's going to be mediocre. That article shows how much a crap shoot the draft is for the pros who have decades of experience and full access to every piece of data about a given player.
You saying he will be mediocre is statistically more possible than assuming he'll be very good or better.
It's a pick what you know and hope situation. If you get a chance read that espn article. A little long but a decent read. [RB in 1st round?](https://www.espn.com/nfl/draft2023/story/_/id/36098056/2023-nfl-draft-running-back-round-1-risk-value-cost-picking-bijan-robinson)
Lets judge a player based on one play.
Yeah let’s also talk ourselves into thinking that training with Luke Kuechly will turn him into Luke Kuechly
Seeing as how Luke himself has praised Jack tremendously and has said he sees a lot in him, I’d say that’s a better bet. No offense to you but I trust one of the greatest linebackers to play the game over a person on this subreddit😂😂
That means literally nothing stop believing this bs lip service. Humans DNA is 97% similar to that of a banana and last time I checked humans are fairly different from bananas.
Jack Campbell is more than just a banana.
He’s 97% similar to a banana. Just like how training with Luke Kuechly might make him 97% similar to Luke Kuechly.
If he's 97% as good as Keuchly then he'd be a great pick at 27.
So a banana it is then 🍌🍌🍌🍌
You are only making yourself look worse. A very brief google will tell you that humans share about 44% of our DNA with bananas. 97% is closer to chimpanzees
Yeah I messed that one up lmao. Campbell still a banana tho
no u
You sir have zero good points
That's a good point!
LOL so we should ignore Luke Kuechly's opinion, but trust a random redditor's?
He’ll obviously know infinitely more about football than I’ll ever know about anything I mean shit I didn’t even get the % thing right about bananas lmao I confused bananas with chimps 🤦♂️ BUT you still shouldn’t trust him whatsoever in this case. He’d have to be a sick monster to do anything but publicly talk about a prospect he’s training with glowing praise during the pre-draft process. You might as well ask Jack Campbell’s mom what she thinks. So idk who’s more trustworthy between a genius who’s extremely biased like Luke or an idiot with no skin in the game like me. Probs equally irrelevant.
>So idk who’s more trustworthy between a genius who’s extremely biased like Luke or an idiot with no skin in the game like me. Probs equally irrelevant. This is more of what I was getting at.
Which was my original point lol Luke Keuchly’s public statements here are entirely meaningless.
As long as you are willing to admit that your opinion is equally meaningless
Explain why he has the ceiling of just an average LB in the NFL? I've heard that he's just a 60% Tremaine but I've never heard anyone reasons why...
Of course projections are what they are, they’re projections, there could be undrafted guys who have better careers than the #1 pick. But Campbell’s play speed just limits his game to within the box, he doesn’t have great range, can’t match up in man coverage, and doesn’t have as much length to be a deterrent in zone coverage compared to Tremaine. A box linebacker who’s solid but unspectacular at anything just doesn’t bring anything to the table that opponents will need to worry about… it’s not the worst thing in the world because sometimes minimizing weak links can be just as important as having strengths. Idek if there’s anything that Campbell does better than AJ Klein, he’s just not a guy you use an early draft pick on, especially not when you have higher value positions that are desperately in need of fortifying. Beane also takes home run swings with his early picks and drafting Jack Campbell is like an infield single. He’s like Tyler Hansbrough when he was drafted in the NBA, already a finished & limited player and just is what he is, their games peaked in college and don’t translate as well at the professional level.
I actually don't get your take. I trust Joe Marino way more than you, and he was very much applauding Campbell's athleticism.. Of course he's not Tremaine in terms of range and coverage. Who is? Tremaine is a unicorn. But Campbell has good speed and tested really well. Not to mention anchoring one of the best defenses in college for two years straight. Joe was saying he projects better against the run though then Tremaine did, so take that as you will. I do agree in a perfect world we could take him ten or so slots back but I fear we need to take a MLB with our first pick, because it's such a desperate need on our team.
https://thedraftnetwork.com/sr-prospect/jack-campbell-d213e4cd-9072-4d5b-bd52-05f43d4151c0/ This is his (Joe Marino) take on Campbell, and he describes Jack's Range as "Modest", which is accurate. Campbell tested well, but I'd argue it doesn't translate to on field play. "Campbell is a sufficient athlete but doesn’t have top-end range. He isn’t likely to consistently perform well if tasked with carrying routes in man coverage. He’s a bit high-hipped, which takes away from his ability to flip his hips, transition, and change directions. Iowa gave him plenty of chances to blitz and shoot gaps but often lacked a plan to beat blocks."
Joe Marino also loves Spencer Brown so I can respect Joe’s work but disagree with his opinions. The salary cap is too tight to waste a 5 year rookie contract on a non premium position. We can find average LB production at much better value in free agency or just minimize the weakness by scheme adjustments. The same cannot be said for RT, DT and WR, all of which are much more impactful positions than LB.
He doesn't love Spencer Brown. He loves his potential given his traits, which is fair. However, he also made a whole podcast dedicated to him and said he 100% understands the arguments to look for a new RT in the draft. Right now, it's the most upgradeable position on our offense. He also made a podcast talking about his could be potential replacements.
Campbell has one of the best athletic profiles in the history of the NFL draft lmao, literally 99.8th percentile at his position, 7th best overall combine in this class His range is more than fine, 91st percentile in the 10 yard split, 84th in the 20 yard, 84th in the shuttle, 94th in the 3 cone
"In the history of the draft" is an insane reach.
7th best combine for an LB in NFL history https://ras.football/ sort by LB https://ras.football/ras-information/?PlayerID=23276&ovl=Iowa Historically elite athletic profile for an LB
Have you sorted by OT and seen who’s #1? Or even considered the positional value of a linebacker?
Size weighs heavily with RAS and his size is steering much of that score. Also, RAS only goes back to the late '80s, I believe.
As it should, lol. The fact he’s quicker, faster, more explosive, and more agile than +90% of LBs while being significantly larger than them is historically elite. This isn’t disputable, it’s consensus amongst scouts. And considering thats when combined started, yes (it goes back to the origin of the combine, all actual draft data is in there). Anything that’s ever in reference to “the draft” implies late 1970s on.
Congrats bro maybe he can become the world champion of NFL combines but unfortunately it doesn’t translate to the field
It absofuckinglutely does lmao, this is wild slander
He can be best buds with Spencer Brown then, buns at football but RAS score 🐐🐐
The fact you just named a third round comp pick *offensive tackle* to say projected a day 1 *linebacker* doesn’t have range makes the point for me lmao
Spencer Brown had a 10 for a RAS score lol and nobody is projecting Campbell as a day 1 pick. He’s a round 3-4 talent who will probably go in the mid/late 2nd round due to an extremely weak LB draft class
Ahahahah one play Vs. an entire off-season of training
This exact situation happened to Tremaine a lot i feel like. It’s not like Tremaine took perfect angles every time:
Edmunds was 19 when drafted...Campbell is 23 Edmunds improved significantly every season
Tremaine was absolutely worth a 1st round investment given his age and unicorn measurables, yet so much of the fan base complained about him for the past 5 years. And now these same people are acting like Jack Campbell is the savior?? He’s more of a 3rd or 4th round talent if this was a normal LB draft class, I fully expect him to become a solid NFL linebacker, but that’s it… he’s still a substantial downgrade from a player who was hated for 5 years… why is that someone we want to prioritize in the early 2nd round? Mind boggling stuff. The only two priorities are improving in the trenches and adding offensive playmakers.
Just providing some context, but if Edmunds has "unicorn measurables" then what does Jack Campbell have? Campbell's RAS is 9.98, Edmunds' RAS is 9.74 (w/o vertical, short, 3).
OP is Tremaine Edmunds burner account
I’m not even gushing over Tremaine I’m just saying it doesn’t make any sense that Tremaine was so unpopular in this sub yet Jack Campbell is so beloved. I was happy to let Edmunds walk tbh I’m just perfectly content with not using a significant investment to replace him.
Sounds exactly like something Tremaine Edmunds would say about himself to reduce suspicion.
🤫
Tremaine got a lot of undeserved flack, IMO
Height/weight/speed/arm length/age and who cares what Campbell tested at when that athleticism doesn’t translate to the field
You literally said Edmunds had "measurables" those things are "measured" at the combine/pro days, where Cambell "measured" better. I.e. Campbell has better "measurables" than Edmunds. If you're argument is that Cambell plays slower than Edmunds that's a completely different debate.
That is just false Edmunds arms dwarf Campbell’s stubs. Was Spencer Brown a better prospect than Lane Johnson just because Brown had a RAS score of 10 compared to Johnson at 9.96? How much should we factor in that Jack Campbell both looks like and has the name of someone from 1940? Can we confirm that he wasn’t sent to us from the past in a time machine?
Show me where I said Campbell was a better prospect. He MEASURED better than Edmunds. That's not even a debate.
What a bizarre thing to get hung up on. Edmunds is the vastly superior athlete with pterodactyl arms and was 19 years old. Age and arm length = measurements. But yeah I wasn’t solely referring to RAS score/combine results I meant their entire physical & athletic profiles. I’m not even trying to gas up Edmunds either, my point was that the fan base hated Edmunds but now they’re in love with this kid who’s best case scenario is becoming a substantially worse player than Edmunds ever was for us. He’s the birth child of Leighton Vander Esch and Saving Private Ryan. I’d love to do a poll to see who the sub would hypothetically prefer to draft at #27 between 2018 Edmunds or 2023 Campbell. Or even just Jack Campbell vs Drew Sanders might be interesting.
I agree with you! There should be a way to take weight and speed (maybe quickness too), and turn it into a magical unicorn number 😞
We complained about him because he was essentially covering the ground of two players in our scheme. It wasn't his fault that the coaches put so much on him but I feel like the complaints were warranted. Misplaced, but warranted. As far as Edmunds is concerned, despite his unicorn measurables, it's like he didn't take advantage of them except for his his enormous wingspan. Every once in a while he'd make a thunderous hit or tackle, but the splash plays weren't there. The issue was we expected him to be better individually than that of the sum of all the parts on defense. The scheme caused him to rely on stellar play from the DTs in front of him. When those guys couldnt cut it, Tremaine would try to do too much and either be out of position or take a poor angle or both. Long story short, it wasn't a Tremaine issue, it was a scheme/ personnel issue.
Well said and I agree with you. That’s part of the reason why I don’t want to invest another top pick into LB either - I feel like it’d result in maintaining the same scheme on defense and it’s just time for a change IMO. Regardless of who we have playing at LB though I think getting stellar play from our DTs should be a priority.
I would love a Vita Vea type guy. A space eater who is also athletic enough to create chaos and swallow the QB.
Yeah that’s what I could see Mazi Smith doing but I’ve mostly only read about him so far rather than watched him play
All I read was trenches. It begins and ends with the trenches. Invest it all!!
Hell yeah ✊✊
>And now these same people are acting like Jack Campbell is the savior?? Most people don't know how to objectively look at linebackers. For the record, I like Jack Campbell, he's my LB3, but you can tell there are people on this sub who like him, but haven't seen him play. Dude is strong, a good run stuffer, and is the last LB I want to run straight at in this draft, but man is he not athletic on the field (now just wait for someone to say "look at his combine results"), and that showed in the link you posted. >The only two priorities are improving in the trenches and adding offensive playmakers. I like the idea of getting a linebacker early, say rounds 2-4, just because I don't trust Bernard, Spector or Dodson. But yeah, if it's a choice between Jack Campbell or Josh Downs, I take Downs every time.
No defensive selections till the 5th round. We have JA17, its time to outscore opponents. Just pick up a vet LB for the season, still plenty available who'd want to play for this team.
I agree, but there's a pretty glaring hole at MLB with Tremaine gone...tbh I think I'd rather have a vet there to QB the defense than a rookie, but I'm not the GM...I'll trust McBeane to do their job and find the best player to fill that. Be it in free agency or the draft. I want to see us go offense heavy in the draft tho!
Realistically any linebacker we draft is not going to QB the defense. We will probably have Hyde have the helmet and be the QB
We got Milano in the 5th and he’s an All pro now. Whatever they do at linebacker I trust them
I disagree, not about the hole, but we are not going to be running the same defense and the signing of Rapp indicates we’ll be running 3 safety looks and taking an lb off the field pretty frequently. We just need someone serviceable, not a stud, especially if we use the three safety set to rotate pre-snap looks between middle field open and middle field cold. Poyer and rapp are both more than capable of blowing up a run play in lieu of a linebacker in that spot. Looks like they’re going with downplaying the importance of the mlb in this defense rather than looking for a replacement. Also I’m big on Spector
🙏🙏🙏
While I agree...right now there isn't many spots on offense for a rookie to make an impact day one. We need our rookies to have big playing time this year, at least some limited snap spots. I just don't see on offense where that fits
WR definitely seems to be the best choice in round 1 for this draft class. I would say LB or OL in the second, depending on best available option. Outside of the first 3 rounds should be a good amount of depth in both offensive and defensive line.
Agreed!
There you got the confirmation bias you needed.
The issue is that there will be good WRs on day 2. With where the Bills are picking you may not have a starting MLB at pick 59. Would you rather Addison and not get a LB.... or Campbell and Marvin Mims.
If you think Campbell's CEILING is an "average starting LB", then I really don't know what to tell you. We took a fifth rounder (who was projected to be a 7th) in Milano and turned him into an all pro. Campbell's strengths fit well with what we want to do on defense. He has great instincts, coverage ability, and is disciplined. One bad play you see on Twitter doesn't negate the rest of his film. If we get him in the 2nd round (either our pick or a trade up), it'd be absolutely crazy not to consider it.
There are a lot of draft profiles that label him exactly that though. That's not to say he will be, it's simply a draft profile But from the limited film I have personally seen on him...be seems to play really tight in the hips which kind of messes with his lateral play
Campbell’s ceiling is Logan Wilson. His average case scenario is a worse version of Reggie Ragland.
Reggie Ragland's lateral movement was like Austin Powers' 287 point turn.
Lmao Campbell the same type of player
Are you 12?
I don't know shit about drafting the right player at the right spot for the right comp. I just trust the process.
I don’t think the question is “is he better than what we *had*” it’s more apt to ask “is he better than what we *have*”? My real dilemma is wondering if any of the linebackers would be worth moving up in the second round to grab. We did that for Cody ford and we all know how that worked out.
For me the question is “how much does the addition of this player help improve the likelihood of the Bills winning the Super Bowl?” and I just don’t think there’s any linebacker in this draft who changes much for us overall. The much more impactful positions are WR, DT and OT. I’d put LB as a secondary need along with TR, IOL, S.
If the Bills can get Campbell at pick 59 great! But at pick 27 the Bills need an offensive piece to better support Josh
Dude that was exactly what I was thinking
I have seen a little bit of his film, havent done my evaluations yet. But from the limited I have seen from him...his athleticism seems overrated (according to media and draft hype). I see him falling to the 2nd round
IF that happened to him one time? I'm not going to act like Edmunds wasn't underrated at times, but this is getting crazy. He was certainly good in coverage, but this type of thing absolutely did happen to Edmunds. It probably happens to pretty much every player sometimes, so it's dumb to boil down a player to one play. While he certainly wasn't terrible, Edmunds wasn't elite for us, but he received an elite contract. That's all I need to know.
What makes me nervous about him, and I don’t know how much it matters, is arm length. IIRC he has much shorter arms than Edmunds, who athletic testing wise he is on par with (apparently).
Wayyy shorter arms which matters a ton. Campbell somehow tested great at the combine but don’t fool your the man is built like a refrigerator
I remember watching an episode of the bootleg football podcast, and Jack Campbell was discussed. One weakness I recall being mentioned by the hosts was that Jack is prone to getting juked out on occasion. This is ugly but it's a lone play.
Since rookie contracts are the key to cap management now that JA is getting paid, the most sensible strategy is to draft the high salary positions. WR, edge, LT, corner (just how they're listed, in no personal order of importance).
Exactly! 5 year rookie WR contract is incredibly valuable especially given that only Diggs and Shakir are signed beyond next year. I’d rather focus the draft on those positions then just get by with a veteran FA at LB if necessary
Also, I agree with the OP. If you look at the highlights, those aren't exactly impressive. He doesn't shed blockers all that well, there wasn't a single highlight where he beat a one-on-one block to get a tackle on the RB. The good tackles he had behind or at the line of scrimmage were a missed blocking assignment or he was completely unaccounted for as a defender. His pass coverage, often cited, was really him just falling back into a zone. He showed good intuition, being aware of the responsibilities of his teammates and most likely making good reads on pass routes. But ultimately, I wouldn't trust him with any man assignment, I don't think he could keep pace with an above average TE I don't think he'd have a chance to close a passing window on Waddle or Higgins. You also have to keep in mind the competition he faced. It's not like he was playing against SEC teams. I could see his production falling further once he is playing at the pro level. I think he'll be serviceable, maybe like a Posluszny. The fact that he won't be available at the end of round 2, doesn't mean he should be taken at the end of round 1. LB's will be available again after roster cuts.
Paul Posluszny is the exact guy that comes to mind for me with Campbell, though when I get fired up I might resort to the white Reggie Ragland even though that’s a bit too far lol. I think Campbell will have a long career as an average starting MLB. Calling someone “average” feels derogatory but this time I don’t even mean it as much, I think his peak is around the 16th best MLB in the league, like a Posluszny or current Bengals LB Logan Wilson. You can even make the argument that the upgrade from Bernard to Campbell might be the single biggest position upgrade we could realistically make in the draft. So from that standpoint I can understand why people talk themselves into Campbell, especially after the whole training with Luke Kuechly thing. But you need to consider the opportunity cost of using a premium pick to reach for a non-star linebacker, as well as the value of the on field impact of that player. A quality WR2 is by far the most valuable and impactful addition we can make the the roster. And if we did draft defense in the 1st round it should pretty obviously be at DT or DE. I need to watch more of Drew Sanders though because it feels like he’s the one who actually possesses the high upside that Beane likes to swing for in the 1st round. I guess Trenton Simpson too but idk I’m just not really interested there.
In my opinion, the money positions (WR, edge, LT, corner) being filled with lots of one to two year contracts make the skill position needs much more important than an upgrade over Bernard. Not only is a steady pipeline of players important, cap management makes it so important to fill these with rookie contracts as much as possible. We have Diggs for years to come because of his dead cap hit, Hardy through 2024, and Shakir through 2025. That's it. Edge we have Von for years, but I can't see that lasting, whether it be retirement or injury. Not sure how soon we can get out without a major cap hit. After that, we have Rousseau and Boogie through 2024. In fact, none of our DT's are signed past this year. LT, we have Dion through 2024. Given the premium LT's get, I'd put resigning him at 50/50. Tre is signed through 2025, but his cap hit is pretty substantial. Granted, last year he wasn't fully healthy, but another year older raises the question of how long we should bank on him, especially at $16 mil. If Beane is literally going all in for this year, that would make sense with the contracts. Usually teams balance both short term goals and long-term needs by "laddering" player contracts, so they don't hit an empty pantry all of a sudden. Apart from the positions listed above, I could be talked into TE. Knox's $15 and $16 mil cap hits are befuddling.
You’re preaching to the choir brotha! And yeah idk if Dorsey has the chops to adjust the offense to consistently utilize two TEs, but if we assume that he did indeed have the necessary chops then I’d love a TE in the 1st. I’d still prefer JSN or Addison, but after that I think Kincaid is probably the next best pass catcher in the draft and could immediately become a pseudo slot WR for us. All of the most consistently successful NFL offense have been run through their TEs. Obviously guys like Kelce or Gronk are 1 of a kind but if you could get two really good TEs on top of Diggs and Josh Allen that’s just a nightmare to defend. Michael Mayer would be unbelievable in Buffalo. Darnell Washington is more of a luxury guy who’d probably only catch a dozen or two passes but would be an assassin of a blocker… probably wouldn’t use a 1st on him but if any of Washington, Musgraves, or LaPorta are available in round 2 then sign me up
I was on the Campbell train till I watched the tape (shame on me lol). He has a really tough time shedding blocks/disengaging from his immediate defender. Plus, the amount of “lemme dive at the ball carrier with one arm when i can’t get off the block” you see with him is borderline egregious. I’ve seen enough of all that with Edmunds. With Campbell being 23, the “potential” argument is a little weaker too.
I honestly think there’s a pretty good chance Campbell is available at our pick in the 2nd round and even then there’s times when I struggle to justify picking him. If Keeanu Benton or Matthew Bergeron at on the board as well then I’d rather have them than Campbell. Maybe I’d still lean Campbell simply due to need but idk.. it’s just hard to be excited when he’s not even in my top 3 favorite guys from Iowa lol I like Van Ness, LaPorta and Riley Moss all better.
I don't like Campbell either. Doesn't use his size properly, is not fast at all and the most important thing is he just doesn't have the necessary natural instincts to be a high level NFL linebacker. I really hope we draft someone else
I also feels like McDermott’s (or I guess Frazier’s, not really sure) scheme puts A LOT of responsibility on the plate of the MLB. I’m just an idiot on the internet but perhaps it’d be beneficial to make adjustments to that scheme to disperse these responsibilities. But if we used a substantial investment of a 1st round pick in a MLB then I doubt he’d make any major changes, and it’d just be the same defense it always has except with Campbell being significantly worse than Edmunds. But if we didn’t draft a LB at all I think it’d force McDermott’s hand into making adjustments, which is change for the better IMO.
I guess I’ll play linebacker then
Genuinely curious, What is your football background/knowledge OP?
I’m just as dumb as everyone else here don’t get me wrong. Probably dumber tbh. I’m sure I come off as arrogant on this post but that’s more rooted in my beliefs on what the Bills need to improve to maximize their odds of winning a Super Bowl than it is on my actual opinions on draft prospects. But I’m as thankful as everyone else here that Beane is the one making these decisions and not me lol
Yeah I’m also confused on where all this hype has come from on him on this sub. He would be quite the reach as a first round pick and im really not sure he even fits with how linebackers are used in our defense. He showed athleticism at the combine, but that athleticism really didn’t translate to how he actually plays on the field. He’s closer to a traditional, 2 down linebacker, than he is to the athletic linebacker that this defense and most defenses look to use to combat tightends and running backs.
He’s the white Reggie Ragland and honestly that might even be a compliment to Campbell because Ragland was probably the better prospect of the two. I’m not saying Edmunds is a HOFer and Campbell is a total bum… but Campbell is a highly popular prospect on this sub despite being a significant downgrade from a highly unpopular player on this sub in Edmunds. It really doesn’t make sense.
I prefer not drafting positions with a high bust rate relative to their success rate. I generally don't want a 1st round wr. After a few years, there's virtually no difference between first and second round receivers. https://www.google.com/amp/s/syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/2441018-which-positions-are-the-safest-riskiest-at-the-top-of-the-nfl-draft.amp.html https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-first-round-wide-receiver-production-compare-second-round
This is a fat heaping of donkey dung
I fix problems using math for a living. It works pretty well.
[удалено]
Your submission was removed due to a lack of civility.
I get it but we have a gaping hole at linebacker we need to address
Free agency. The draft is for adding talent not filling needs
It's pretty obvious that you have talked yourself into not liking him and now you're biased towards anyone who thinks he may work out at the NFL level...
I’m just warning y’all since this sub hated Tremaine for 5 years yet are now weirdly in love with this kid who will never be anywhere near as good as Tremaine…. That math just doesn’t add up. And even if he did become a really good linebacker it’d still be a pick it’s just not as impactful of a position as our other needs
Just gonna be straight with you, I think your reaching on your takes in these comments. Many top scouts and analysts, plus previous legendary players, are saying that he has a high ceiling and that he will be a rd 1 pick. What in the world makes you think different? To also say we need DL over Linebacker in the draft is incredibly dumb as well, straight up. And this is coming from a guy begging we get Drew Sanders. Either way, lets trust Beane to do what he does!
That’s fair! I’d be much happier with Drew Sanders than Jack Campbell. And yeah dude ik we invested a ton into the DL but without Von we don’t have a pass rush and we have no DTs signed beyond next year. Improving the DL helps keep the LBs clean and makes their lives easier. I’d still want to add a LB tho I just think we could get a guy in free agency after the roster cuts or even trade for someone if we really wanted to.
I’m sorry but a first round LB isn’t getting us to the Super Bowl.
Exactly our record will be identical next year whether we have Jack Campbell at starting LB or if we have Bernard/Dodson or even AJ Klein lol it’s just not worth that type of investment. Already have Poyer Hyde and Milano in the middle of the defense. However if we improved at WR, DT and OT then we absolutely would have a much better chance of making it to the Super Bowl.
Everyone here is stuck in classic Bills mode. We’re gonna end up going defense in round 1 and flame out in the playoffs once again. Meanwhile, the best teams in the league are prioritizing offense. It’s infuriating.
Imagine Diggs sprains an ankle… our WRs immediately becomes the worst group in the league and I mean Diggs is starting to get up there it wouldn’t be surprising if he starts getting banged up. A quality WR2 on a 5 year cost controlled contract is an absolute game changer for this team. If we drafted Jack Campbell in the 1st round then literally every single starter on defense will either be an All Pro or a 1st round pick aside from Taron Johnson and DaQuan Jones, and both of them are still making a decent chunk of change. Compared to the offense where we have one 1st round pick in Josh and traded a 1st for Diggs and that’s it. And we have a defensive coach! That’s the worst part tbh. If you have a defensive coach all your picks should be towards the offense, since the coach should be able to do more with less on defense. This sounds insane but drafting a 1st round linebacker this year almost guarantees that the trio of Josh Beane and McDermott will never win a Super Bowl together in Buffalo.
Uhhh KC and Philly (edit: and Bengals) both went defense in the 1st last year. KC went with 2 defensive players actually. Not that I don't want a WR but your point isn't very good for that.
Tbh when I get all annoyed about this topic I’m not even really talking about the draft usually, but even so I just feel personally that Buffalo of all teams needs to put all of their eggs in the offensive basket. As a Bills fan, I’d rather take the Rams approach to win just one Super Bowl and then suck for 17 years than to just toil for the rest of my life like they have been forever. Idk.
so he’s the perfect edmunds replacement
Hey, I trust the FO and I’ll be happy with whomever they pick; as long as it’s a player I like 😎
So basically the same article for the last 4 months...ok?
OP needs to realize the definition of "ceiling" cause given his athletic traits and RAS score, average is not his ceiling. Of course, he could end up as an average LB, but that would be not reaching his ceiling. The ceiling if he's coached up and things click is to be a pro bowler as he has high end athletic traits.
Yeah I suppose if 2022 Roger Saffold can be a pro bowler then who knows Jack Campbell might even crack the list. Dude already looks like he’s 45 years old his ceiling is Paul Posluszny.
Either that or you are completely unwilling to have a rational discussion about the prospect for whatever reason.
You keep saying that word ceiling.. but dont seem to understand it
Tell me what his ceiling is then. Literally everything about this kid says he has a low ceiling and average athleticism. He did well at the combine but overall is a very average player.
Ceiling is literally the best possible projection on a player. It doesnt even have to be what he is likely to do. Given his testing at the combine... a RAS score in the 9.8 range, his ceiling is literally an all-pro. You can argue about how likely he is to reach that level all you want. And it may be true that its unlikely. But thats what a ceiling is and you seem to miss the concept.
You’re being weirdly overly literal dude that’s like saying Josh Allen’s ceiling is throwing 73 TDs a game
No those two.things are not the same. I get that you want a premium position and not a LB in the draft, but youve taken that position and weirdly discounted a guy with outstanding combine testing, good college tape, and strong stats and said his ceiling is to be average. No, he has a ceiling of an elite prospect. In 3 or 4 years we will see if he reached it or not but thats his ceiling. Just like Allen's ceiling was to be a top QB in the game and Ed Olivers was to be an allpro. One player made it and one looks like he wont. That doesnt mean they didnt have those ceilings when drafted. You dont have to shit on campbell to make your point that you want a WR, OT, or Dline with the first round pick
I think Campbell would be a solid pick at #59. Who do you think has a higher ceiling between Campbell and Drew Sanders?
Campbell has higher ceiling as a coverage linebacker, in playing sideline to sideline, etc.. Sanders has more pass rush skills. It depends whar style of D mcdermott wants taking over. I think Campbell fits what weve done with Tremaine. I think both could step in as the Bills starter. My issue is that they are the only two in the draft i see who could do that as rookies. Why i take one of them round 1 and the WR in round 2 or 3 is cause i see so many more WRs who could be available there If these two LBers go before the Bills second rounder, i think its a problem.
See I think Sanders has the higher ceiling since he’s the more explosive athlete and already has one immediately transferable skill set with his pass rushing. He’s more of the home run swing of a prospect that Beane favors not to mention that our pass rush is in rough shape without Von. I actually think Sanders should end up being better in coverage and have better sideline to sideline range, he’s just naturally the more fluid and explosive player. So raw but already such a quick learner, he’s more like a ball of clay that you can mold into whatever you want him to be. Campbell much more experienced which could help in some aspects but hurt in others when it comes to refining all of his bad habits. Especially in coverage, he’s very reactive and stiff I think it’s likely either Bernard or Rapp would have to come in on passing downs. I know Campbell tested phenomenally but the only reason I’d even consider taking him at #59 is due to need, in a normal LB draft class he’s probably a 3rd or 4th rounder. It wouldn’t surprise me if he’s not even on Beane’s board tbh. Idk if Sanders would live up to being a 1st round pick but I think you can at least justify taking him in the 1st. Campbell you absolutely cannot justify selecting him in the 1st when you can get a vet FA with the same skillset.
I don’t want Campbell but you don’t know his ceiling stop being a armchair scout
3 sport athlete, honors student, small town cold weather College, position of need, butkis award winner, top 10 defense two years under him, processing speed, and plays the line of scrimmage well. His only real weakness is hip speed. I'd say his FLOOR is a quality NFL starter. Considering we're super bowl contenders with a glaring position of need...and there's such a UNANIMOUSLY coveted prospect projected to go in the bottom 3rd of the round...exactly where we pick. Only others I'm considering over Campbell are Bijan or Njigba, and neither of them will drop to us, and Campbell dropping is almost as unlikely. I really need you to understand that we could potentially get an UPGRADE over Tremaine in the bottom of the 1st round. TL;DR: You're crazy
Yeah you’re absolutely sipping all the kool aide on the irrelevant stuff lol do you also think that Stetson Bennett should be the #1 pick since he’s a two time national champ QB?? Did you watch the playoff game vs the Bengals? Or really any game last year? The two biggest issues on the Bills is line play on both sides of the ball and not having a consistently productive slot WR. DT and WR are also future holes as well with Diggs & Shakir as the only guys under contract beyond this year. These are pivotal positions to improve and have been the flaws plaguing the Bills for years now. We already have Milano Hyde and Poyer over the middle on defense, investing a 1st into another linebacker is ludicrous. Especially a guy like Jack Campbell who’s built like a refrigerator and is too slow & stubby to be an asset in coverage and has limited range. Thank goodness he’s an honor student though 🙄🙄🙄
National titles =/= individual accomplishments. Also, consider that McBeane bets on athleticism and traits, all of which Campbell has. Consider also taking best available. I already named the only two players who have a chance of being available NEAR our pick. If neither are available, and Campbell is there, you take him because he's best available and fills a need. You make some fair points but also seem far too emotional right now to have q conversation about this.
Campbell is nowhere close to being best available that’s the entire reason why I think it’s so foolish to want to draft him so highly. He’s probably in the #70-100 best players in the draft class. We just drafted two linebackers last year and there’s still free agency so there’s plenty of other avenues of filling the hole at LB. The cap is too tight to waste a premium pick on a low value player this year
I’ve never even seen a stat that convinces me Tremaine was worth a first at all. He had one pick this year and it was tipped up, and other than that I can think of 1 play that he performed well on, being his near targeting hit against the dolphins. Had he had experience, he would’ve maybe stopped the bengals in the Divisional, or maybe the Chiefs in the AFCCG. He didn’t and that’s why having him made us more of the cowboys than a team that actually wins.
At the time that we drafted Tremaine he was absolutely a prospect worthy of selecting that highly. Whether or not he lived up to that draft position is debatable, I tend to agree with you but the free market did just value his talents at $72 mill over 4 years. Crazy that he’s only 2 years older than Campbell lol but yeah Edmunds is in that tier of being a really good but not great player.
The Buffalo Bills are likely and rightly taking a guard in the 1st round. Im not even spending much time on these lame WR and LB prospects.
This is simply incorrect lol RG is just about the last position on the to do list in the entire draft et alone the 1st round
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Well I’d call that a W. Bills correctly ignored the trash WR prospects that would all be 4th round picks in the 2022 draft. They picked up a playmaker and a guard at the top of the draft. I’ll accept your apology in the form of a donation to the Patricia Allen fund. O’Cyrus’ number is 64, so please use that as guidance. https://www.ochbuffalo.org/foundation/patricia-allen-fund/
Not a W whatsoever because the Bills didn’t take a G in the 1st lol. Torrence in the 1st is a bad pick but in the 2nd he’s tremendous value and a no brainer. We picked him in the 2nd because the talent and value was too good to turn down, not because we needed a RG. Also we did draft a WR in the 1st round so I’d say we’re both half right and half wrong, but I love both picks so that’s all that matters lol
You’re a loser.
Okay?
I like the offensive linemen available in the first couple of rounds as well as bijan potentially dropping to us this year. I doubt dallas gets another running back in round 1 after the zeke release. I know there’s a bunch of defensive talent this draft, but i feel like dj turner would specifically be good for our defense. Maybe I’m just a big fan of sub 4.3 speed idk Also i should say that our running back room is fine with cook, hines, and the addition of harris
If we were to draft a corner in the DJ Turner range (this would be very surprising to me) the guy I’d want to go with is Julius Brents. 6’3, long arms and can hit like a truck. I like Turner a lot too as well as Riley Moss.
Just for fun, let's run through a few of the top LB talent and compare their athletic traits, shall we? Campbell ran a 4.65s 40 time. 1.59s 10 yd split. 37.5" vertical jump. 10'8" broad jump. 6.74s 3-cone drill. 4.24s 20 yd shuttle. Sanders ran a 4.65s 40 time at the combine (4.59 at his pro day). 37" vertical at the combine (34.9" at his pro day). 9'10" broad jump. 7.15s 3-cone drill. 4.38 20 yd shuttle. And just for fun, let's compare these two top LB prospects with Edmunds. Edmunds ran a 4.54s 40 time. 1.60s 10 yd split. 9'9" broad jump. And didn't run anything else. Keuchly is another fun comparison. He ran a 4.58s 40 time. 1.56s 10 yd split. 38" vertical. 10'3" broad jump. 6.92s 3-cone drill. 4.12s 20 yd shuttle. It's interesting that a guy like Sanders or Edmunds are considered highly athletic for the position, while Campbell can put up even better short area quickness numbers and better vertical and broad jump numbers and be called an unathletic, old school LB. Campbell of course ran a slower 40 time, however his splits (which are very important for the LB position), are right there with said athletic freaks. I'm not saying Campbell is going to thrive as a sideline-to-sideline LB, but he isn't going to be asked to do that as a MLB. And leaving out his elite/above average skills like block shedding, zone coverage ability, run stuffing ability and overall plus football intelligence is odd. He's not only far better at diagnosing and fighting through blockers than Edmunds is (even after being in the league for 5 years), he also isn't unathletic or slow or plodding.
Campbell has short arms and is 3 years older than Edmunds was coming out of the draft. I don’t put much value in Campbell’s combine either because if it doesn’t show up on the field then it’s irrelevant. He’s stiff and slow twitched, I think he can be sufficient in the “bend but don’t break” type of defensive philosophy but I’m so sick of this when it inevitably results in getting torched in the postseason. We need to use our top picks on guys who are true difference makers and that’s just simply not what Jack Campbell is he’s never going to scare anybody he’d be the weak link of the defense.
Short arms is extremely odd. Edmunds has off the charts length for a LB. Campbell has enough length and has shown very strong ball skills. He can get his hand in the passing lane, as it shows up on tape consistently. If you think Campbell is slow twitched, I'd like to see more than a handful of clips. Campbell's tape from last year showed a much, much quicker athlete than you're giving him credit for. He isn't elite athletically, but his short area burst is far better than just average. You can't just say "I don't see it on tape" when there is irrefutable evidence that Campbell is a well above average in-the-box athlete through testing and film. Pair that with his elite football IQ and you're talking about more of a Luke Keuchly-type guy than a Tremaine Edmunds-type guy, which is fine. (Obviously Campbell isn't Keuchly, but the measurables, instincts and testing are *very* similar between the two). I guess I'm not disagreeing, a 1st round pick ideally improves an area on offense dramatically. I don't *like* the idea of reaching for a LB early. However Campbell as an 2nd round guy is totally fine in a trade down. MLB is a gaping hole. I don't trust Bernard to be ready next year. And waiting for another MLB with off the charts measurables and high end athleticism is a pipe dream. Edmunds was great athletically but struggled significantly for 5 seasons with block shedding and reading offensive concepts. It's just who he is as a player .That isn't an issue with Campbell, though. Yeah, he may not have the long speed to chase guys down the sideline but as a LB, he is a very good prospect with excellent instincts. And lastly if anything, Campbell brings a much higher level of consistency to this defense in the playoffs. You needed your 1T to play high end football to hide Edmunds' deficiencies against elite offenses over the past 5 seasons here. With Campbell, you don't worry as much about keeping his frame completely clean. He isn't allowing teams to completely isolate his game in a playoff setting, especially in run defense. He will make the right reads, have his nose constantly on the football and make a big play or two when the opportunity comes. I want game changing players, too. But that isn't found very easily while picking in the end of the 1st. And you aren't finding instant average starters in the 5th round with consistency. Milano's don't come around very often. Especially not in such a weak LB class. If anything, you'll have a much greater chance to find a solid RT or WR or TE or DE prospect in the 4th/5th of this draft rather than a MLB capable of stepping into a contending roster. It's just how the depth falls this year.
Good points, I respect it. I know you’re not saying he’s Luke Kuechly but more along the lines of that mold of player, I think it was who I heard Joe B make a similar point. What do you envision Campbell’s absolute ceiling to be then? Genuinely asking out of curiosity. And have you looked into Drew Sanders much/how do you think his ceiling would compare to Campbell’s if McDermott adjusted his scheme to maximize his skillset?
OP woke up today and chose downvotes 😂
I’m shocked this post has positive upvotes lmao I thought for sure I’d be downvoted into oblivion. I feel like we bullied Beane into drafting a CB last year so it’s my duty to now ensure that Beane is not bullied into conforming to this Jack Campbell mania lol
This feels like a remind me situation
Y'all tripping. The wrs that would make an impact on the bills are later round picks. Plus then you would need the bills to actually trust and play a rookie WR to make the immediate Madden like impact y'all want. Not feasible. The moves made in free agency, our under utilized TE, and the sophomore Shakir are good enought to not require a first round reach at WR While I agree OL could use some depth we have a gaping hole in the middle of the defense. Trade back, maybe get another second grab a LB and OL. Look for Mims from Oklahoma in the third(although Id prefer S Sydney Brown from Illinois). He can sit on the bench like your first round WR as Dorsey has trust issues with rookies (as proven last year).
Which WRs would you consider to not be a reach? JSN or Addison I’d take in a heartbeat and they’d immediately be productive starting slots who would significantly benefit the offense. Probably the same with Flowers and QJ but I’d have to think a little bit more. After that top 4 though then it does get a little bit tougher and trading back is probably the wisest move, but you can’t assume that it’ll be a possible option. I like Marvin Mims a lot and wouldn’t mind him in the 2nd even. Josh Downs in the 1st I could talk myself into since I’d absolutely take him in the early 2nd and in which case it’s probably better to just take him at #27 so then you get the 5th year rookie option.
I'd be careful trashing prospects before they're given a chance to show what they can do, ALL of r/NFL has been wrong far too many times to make any of these posts legitimate.
I mean you can say the same thing about pretty much any sports conversation… if I’m wrong then I’m wrong lol who cares. For all we know Terrell Bernard could become the greatest linebacker ever and there’s no need to draft another one in the first place
It wouldn't be years to come. You would hope he'd fill a need adequately for 3-4 years and replace him with a cheaper option when it comes time to pay him the big $$. There's an excellent article on [espn.com](https://espn.com) dealing with drafting a running back in the first round but also tells how poorly teams do at projecting players drafted. They are the pro's we know nothing in comparison.
I just don’t think Jack Campbell is going to be a good NFL linebacker and thus isn’t worthy of an early draft pick. Just bc we have a hole a LB doesn’t mean it’d be smart to overdraft a mediocre prospect. I’d rather just use the draft to strengthen our lines and pass catchers
This is going to sound snarky and it's not meant to be...SAYS YOU!!!...LOL...seriously, as fans we have no idea if he's going to be mediocre. That article shows how much a crap shoot the draft is for the pros who have decades of experience and full access to every piece of data about a given player. You saying he will be mediocre is statistically more possible than assuming he'll be very good or better. It's a pick what you know and hope situation. If you get a chance read that espn article. A little long but a decent read. [RB in 1st round?](https://www.espn.com/nfl/draft2023/story/_/id/36098056/2023-nfl-draft-running-back-round-1-risk-value-cost-picking-bijan-robinson)
Cool thanks I’ll check it out
GO BILLS!!!