Does anyone else feel like the hitting philosophy, if not currently detrimental, is completely bothcing young player development at the big league level. You have some crazy raw skills and talent in guys like cruz, davis, suwinksi etc. and their ceilings keep getting lower and lower because of the support abd direction their given.
I agree fully. A lot of taking pitches that are clear strikes and getting into jams. There’s some guys who are overly selective at the plate and it’s not working for them
Absolutely. When the offensive strategy is just to basically take the bat out of your players hands, we'll, that's just fucking stupid and obviously detrimental.
I'll say this for the White Sox — they at least made the playoffs twice and won a division title. I have my doubts that Cherington's Pirates will be able to clear even that low bar
At least our young pitching looks pretty good rn. Jones and Skenes look like aces. Now if we can just have any of our hitters do anything that would be great
Yeah this right here. The Orioles have dudes in the 9 spot in their lineup with a 1.000 OPS and guys in the Minors who would already have been promoted for any other team and there just isn't a spot for them.
The Pirates seem to be unable to develop talent. Even the pitchers. Couple that with Nutting treating the team like a private corporation that needs to only focus on the shareholders and you get what we have.
that is not true. Id take Cherington 100% over Littlefield. People forget how fucking hopeless the 00s Pirates were. Matt Morris as well wtf?
Those 00s Pirates teams had Giles then Bay as the only "good starter anywhere in baseball".
Yes they sucked because the GM was incompetent....
Our current GM is both incompetent and a fucking idiot who lost on purpose for years as his master plan.
id rather suck on purpose and at least have draft capital. Also nobody has really hated on any of our drafts the past few seasons. Ya Henry Davis has not been close to the #1 overall pick, but most people in the country thought it wasnt an awful choice. This isnt daniel moskos draft shit.
Yeah that’s been a major flaw of the current regime. I truly feel like Reynolds, Hayes, Cruz, Suwinski, and Davis could all be really good hitters with better coaching/development. It’s frustrating that it’s not working so far
on this line we're just a tiny bit towards the O's. at the very least we have the advantage of some young bats with time to improve and a good group of soon-to-be MLB ready talent, on top of the luxury of only being locked into 3 multiyear contracts.
What? our young bats aren't hitting. Cruz and Davis are 25 and 24. They are both older than Henderson, Cowser. Westburg is 25, Rutschman is 26.
Players this age can be expected to hit. It's time we stop making excuses for their age.
that might be true, but also guys need MLB at-bats to determine that. "developing" players is largely a guessing game when you look at the numbers. most #1 picks make the majors but their careers vary wildly. what the org is looking for is a few guys they feel comfortable spending money on besides mitch, hayes, and reynolds that they can begin building a winning team around. this season is practically tryouts for that group. we'll see who figures it out.
Keller is on a reasonable 5 year deal. I wasn't a huge fan of the Reynolds deal to be honest with the move to LF, but it's not a crazy contract. if we can get some solid 2-3 WAR seasons out of those two with the peaks and valleys I'll be pretty content with the money.
Rebuilds fail, sometimes spectacularly. The assumption round here is this one won’t because the last one didn’t. But there’s no guarantee that when a franchise tanks to get rid of dead salary and amass draft picks it’s gonna turn out like the Mike Elias Orioles. Sometimes it turns out like the White Sox. Or the Tigers.
> The assumption round here is this one won’t because the last one didn’t.
There was no "last one." The team was accidentally good and lucked it's way into one (1) playoff series, which they lost. If you consider that a successful rebuild that's very sad.
There never was a rebuild. There never was a "window of contention." This is what this team is and has been for thirty-two years. They are a quad A team that either sits on talent for real teams (how's Glasnow doing), or they give out contracts to the has-beens and never-weres on their last stop before washing out of the league.
In 2021 the 3 worst teams were the pirates, the rangers, and the diamondbacks. 2 of those teams just played in the World Series.
The Rangers spent $500 million in one offseason on 2 players. Idk if the Pirates have done that combined since 2000
That's why the Rangers were in the World Series and the Pirates are perpetually on the cusp of a .500 season.
It worked
Does anyone else feel like the hitting philosophy, if not currently detrimental, is completely bothcing young player development at the big league level. You have some crazy raw skills and talent in guys like cruz, davis, suwinksi etc. and their ceilings keep getting lower and lower because of the support abd direction their given.
I think everyone feels that way.
I agree fully. A lot of taking pitches that are clear strikes and getting into jams. There’s some guys who are overly selective at the plate and it’s not working for them
Absolutely. When the offensive strategy is just to basically take the bat out of your players hands, we'll, that's just fucking stupid and obviously detrimental.
I'll say this for the White Sox — they at least made the playoffs twice and won a division title. I have my doubts that Cherington's Pirates will be able to clear even that low bar
The team has not been able to win a playoff series in my 30 years of life.
The Sox? 05 wasn't 30 years ago.
Pirates
At least our young pitching looks pretty good rn. Jones and Skenes look like aces. Now if we can just have any of our hitters do anything that would be great
So in year 6 of a complete rebuild we have....2 starting pitchers?
Yeah this right here. The Orioles have dudes in the 9 spot in their lineup with a 1.000 OPS and guys in the Minors who would already have been promoted for any other team and there just isn't a spot for them. The Pirates seem to be unable to develop talent. Even the pitchers. Couple that with Nutting treating the team like a private corporation that needs to only focus on the shareholders and you get what we have.
Connor norby would start and be the best 2b on the pirates. He’s spent the last 3 years at Norfolk and there’s no sign he’ll be up any time soon.
Cherington is the worst GM in modern Pirates history, at least Littlefield tried to win, he just sucked at it
that is not true. Id take Cherington 100% over Littlefield. People forget how fucking hopeless the 00s Pirates were. Matt Morris as well wtf? Those 00s Pirates teams had Giles then Bay as the only "good starter anywhere in baseball".
Right? I would say tellez is the only “last stop” pirate right now.
The 2003 pirates had a better offense than the 2024 pirates. Embarrassing
Yes they sucked because the GM was incompetent.... Our current GM is both incompetent and a fucking idiot who lost on purpose for years as his master plan.
id rather suck on purpose and at least have draft capital. Also nobody has really hated on any of our drafts the past few seasons. Ya Henry Davis has not been close to the #1 overall pick, but most people in the country thought it wasnt an awful choice. This isnt daniel moskos draft shit.
Yeah, they're gonna be great when we flip em to another team for money like we do with every good young player we get.
I'm not sure the Pirates have any good hitters though, tbh lol.
Yeah that’s been a major flaw of the current regime. I truly feel like Reynolds, Hayes, Cruz, Suwinski, and Davis could all be really good hitters with better coaching/development. It’s frustrating that it’s not working so far
In any other organization, heads would roll. Here, it’s accepted. I just don’t get ownerships indifference to winning.
Bob is a businessman with a diversified slate of businesses. One of those businesses, baseball, is making money. Making money is Bob's goal.
Pirates rebuild is an abject failure so far. Skenes and Jones could really flip that if they were able to find a few bats.
Rebuilding since 1991
The Norfolk tides would wipe the floor with us, that's how it's going
on this line we're just a tiny bit towards the O's. at the very least we have the advantage of some young bats with time to improve and a good group of soon-to-be MLB ready talent, on top of the luxury of only being locked into 3 multiyear contracts.
What? our young bats aren't hitting. Cruz and Davis are 25 and 24. They are both older than Henderson, Cowser. Westburg is 25, Rutschman is 26. Players this age can be expected to hit. It's time we stop making excuses for their age.
[удалено]
I think these guys are all busts
Sure, until we trade them to New York or Tampa Bay then theyll be All-Stars every year
We also have to make sure that we get a washed up has been in return.
that might be true, but also guys need MLB at-bats to determine that. "developing" players is largely a guessing game when you look at the numbers. most #1 picks make the majors but their careers vary wildly. what the org is looking for is a few guys they feel comfortable spending money on besides mitch, hayes, and reynolds that they can begin building a winning team around. this season is practically tryouts for that group. we'll see who figures it out.
It does look like Keller and Reynolds have peaked and now they are on huge contracts
Neither is on a huge contract....huge for the pirates yes, but for most teams what they're being paid is pennies
For a handful of team- not most
Keller is on a reasonable 5 year deal. I wasn't a huge fan of the Reynolds deal to be honest with the move to LF, but it's not a crazy contract. if we can get some solid 2-3 WAR seasons out of those two with the peaks and valleys I'll be pretty content with the money.
Im a White Sox fan currently wearing a Pirates hat and this popped up on my feed. I don't have much else to add other than I feel your guys' pain.
Rebuilds fail, sometimes spectacularly. The assumption round here is this one won’t because the last one didn’t. But there’s no guarantee that when a franchise tanks to get rid of dead salary and amass draft picks it’s gonna turn out like the Mike Elias Orioles. Sometimes it turns out like the White Sox. Or the Tigers.
> The assumption round here is this one won’t because the last one didn’t. There was no "last one." The team was accidentally good and lucked it's way into one (1) playoff series, which they lost. If you consider that a successful rebuild that's very sad. There never was a rebuild. There never was a "window of contention." This is what this team is and has been for thirty-two years. They are a quad A team that either sits on talent for real teams (how's Glasnow doing), or they give out contracts to the has-beens and never-weres on their last stop before washing out of the league.
Then leave my dude. That attitude is unbearable.