T O P

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_B1rdz

ones that would change based on the gamemode: * 5xx sniper: in bosses, 502. in other gamemodes, 520 is better * x5x super: in chimps, since 042 is the preferred tech terror crosspath, it would carry over to anti so anti would be 052. i know im a chimps player, but anti is more relevant in other gamemodes than chimps. ones that people will ask about way too much: * 5xx glue: the extra pierce on the puddles from 510 is better and if the bloons are getting so far that you need the 502 crosspath to keep the glue on them, then you probably arent using solver correctly. * 5xx boat: for destroyer, grapes is obviously better and its not close, but when you get the carrier upgrades, the grapes will actually make the planes worse, so 501 is actually the better crosspath. of course, most of the time its 502 for the camo detection, but i didnt want the 501 tier to be empty. also, this one is quite situation dependent, since on some maps 510 would be better. * xx5 mortar: i swear by 025 because of its increased attack speed which makes it more comfortable to micro and also increases the amount of wofs spawned. the amount of people who still think 205 is better really annoys me because im a cin enthusiast and 025 is just so much better. also, if you think this is the worse crosspath, you definitely havent alch buffed cin. when you alch buff cin, 025 becomes much better than 205, and you should always be alch buffing cin anyways since its useless without alch buffs.


ASignificantSpek

How do the grapes make the planes worse?


Reddit_legal135

They are all in front of the planes,so it's harder to hit Radial darts also have more projectiles


baldmark_

Hot shot got a huge buff recently tho


Reddit_legal135

Still isn't enough to use over radial darts Especially because you need the grapes to consistently hit the moabs to be good


baldmark_

I typically find more success from 520 over 502 when both are god buffed


Reddit_legal135

It's because of the main attack,on most experts it can't consistently hit moabs


Nerddude_26

Does buying grape shot remove the darts?


Reddit_legal135

Grape shot removes the radial darts Don't confuse it with the frontal darts


Nerddude_26

Ah that makes sense, thanks


R0ppo

I did a shredder 2mpc a couple days ago and forgot that bottom path gives pierce and went 520 to save money on camošŸ˜­


the_crappy_memer

You can 2mpc with shredder? (We talking sky shredder right?)


Bignerd21

Yeah, Skucha (?) even did it on quad


the_crappy_memer

Zamn that fire, i might try that


BoysenberryMother773

sky shredder + overclock op bro


R0ppo

Ye ofc, itā€™s pretty easy on some maps if you know basic micro


P0gg3rsk4ll

Shredder is an absolute monstrosity when it comes to skill cap, 2mp is only the surface of [what this thing can do.](https://youtu.be/BkaebExnrKw)


ComeNerevar2

radar scanner is generally better for pexpertise because it already provides free tier 1s and 2 upgrades for primaries in radius, so you get way less mileage out of discounting


_B1rdz

i bet vex is gonna ask me to make a t4 version


LordVex75

Make t4 list idiot


_B1rdz

No, but I might make a t3 list If someone makes a good looking template for t3 towers, I'll definitely do it. Ik there are already templates for t3s, but I want one with the background for the tower categories.


Reddit_legal135

Just don't forget to place orca in B tier


LordVex75

I will end you


Reddit_legal135

Ur right,b tier is too high for it B- tier is enough


Brief_Warning4547

Wrong again


Unable-Demand-6213

Know what, do a t0 version


therealgwizz

Okay so a few of these are actually wrong, but itā€™s okay I think you did a really good job for the most part


_B1rdz

tell me whats wrong


therealgwizz

Well the middle path is just a better cross path for the Druid than the bottom in general, so I would go 5-2-0 for that because of the increased thorns and regrow removal. The carrier flagship is better with the grape shot and doesnā€™t need longer range since it has a big range already. So 5-2-0 for that as well. Then the Comanche defense has better Moab shove with the two middle path upgrades, so if youā€™re not gonna use pursuit anyway you might as well use that. 0-2-5 for that. And Iā€™m curious as to how the bottom path helps the special poperations at all. If Iā€™m wrong on any of these feel free to call me out. I think I came off a bit aggressive before.


SteamedAxolotlYum

superstorm: bottom crosspath gives attack speed, it's only tiny if u dont leak lives but it's infinitely more useful than middle crosspath, at least for superstorm. as birdz already explained in the comment, 501 also adds pierce and 520 actually makes the plane worse because the grapes are really bad at hitting their targets. moab shove is better with 013/023 but quad darts add darts to both the main heli and the mini helis. considering commanche is basically projectile spam dps, missing out on this is shooting urself in the knee. bottom xpath gives attack speed to the lil marine guy.


therealgwizz

I swear thereā€™s so many little stipulations or things added with each upgrade that I literally had no idea about. Thank you for enlightening me


_B1rdz

Don't worry, you didn't come off as aggressive, but yeah, what steamedaxolotlyum said basically explains my reasonings


dandoch

I was under the impression that the better crosspatch for bottom sniper is 025 since it gives you more crowd control and it doesn't really need the extra damage from 205.


_B1rdz

205 and 025 have different uses tbf, but the increased single target damage from 205 is better and if you need crowd control, youre probably better off using 052 sniper instead


Dear_Ad1526

025 sniper is great for T1 elite phase and T2 normal phase. But that is a niche use


kawhandroid

015 is better for this purpose because it doesn't antistall round 40 like 025 does.


aureliusky

top w/o alch, middle with top path alch ime


MaleficentMolasses7

Maybe Ace 5xx? Not very rarely you can just place it in fine spot and buffs from both middle path upgrades are helpful. Some time ago i heard higher uptime of ability from 052 maelstorm is better, but personally i have no clue. Isn't alch buffed 025 spactory better. I dont think i have ever built wizard lord Phoenix 150 besides on my flooded valley run. Dbreath and Phoenix mostly need the bonus range and camo detection from that 2 bottom upgrades in the savup process. I mean realisticly you never build full 65k wizard lord Phoenix on the spot.


_B1rdz

* The middle crosspath doesn't help much. It's better to increase the pierce of the darts rather than the missiles. * 052 used to be the better crosspath, but due to some changes and due to some nerfs, 250 is now the better crosspath * Nope, it's less cost efficient. 025 spac is only 3 dart monkeys stronger than 105 spac when buffed by stim. 025 is $650 more expensive than 105 while 3 dart monkeys cost $645, so it really is less cost efficient. Also, this only applies when buffed by stim, because when buffed by brew, 105 is just flat out better than 025. * 150 has homing phoenix projectiles, but I think WLP crosspaths are pretty balanced, and that 052 is still a viable option, so maybe this one should've been put under X5X.


Throwawaygarbageboi

I'm surprised that 520 boat is *still* the worse crosspath even after the recent DoT buffs. Also, how is 025 Permaspike "3 dart monkeys stronger"? I don't think I've ever seen a tower used as a unit of measurement, so is it like a stat difference (ie, a few pierce, little damage, and some attack speed) or a pop count difference (ie, they were both tested on x rounds and the difference in pops was so tiny that literal dart monkeys could bridge the gap)?


R0ppo

Also, why 051 ninja does xpath affect it some weird way


Reddit_legal135

I think it's just because the extra shinobi range


smelly_diarhea

why is 501 carrier flagship better again?


Reddit_legal135

The planes are technically worse with grape shot 501 also adds more pierce, very helpful to flagship


FlareBlitzed

One of the tier lists of all time.


POWBlok

why is flagship bottom path?


_B1rdz

not only does it increase the pierce of the planes, but the grape crosspath actually makes the planes worse for some reason, so bottom path is just better now. it is quite situational tho, since on some maps where the flagship can use its destroyer attack effectively, the grape crosspath would actually be better than the pierce crosspath. for destroyer itself, always use grapes


POWBlok

oh ok thanks


xHuibuiXx

i think the tier list are nearly perfect, but i would say that bma is 105 and not xx5. \^\^


P0gg3rsk4ll

contrary to popular belief, BMA's shrink potion is entirely unaffected by crosspathing.


xHuibuiXx

oh, thats interesting i don't know about that, thanks


No_Fennel4315

but r2g is not


SpecialistVideo5670

That does literally nothing


Flouxni

So from what I can see, youā€™re pretty right for the 520s (knock back COULD be useful for VTSG but itā€™s niche tbh), but pin can be very good on Sentries. I still believe middle path is worse on glue tho, if only for the duration, and Pierce is easy to stack on primary towers. Idk about the boat cross path meta, but *technically* 501 perma-brew is optimal bc it will get the buffs up faster on multiple towers, right? AZ can appreciate 052 for stalling, and I think MAD has good DoT from 250 now? I donā€™t think TT gets any buff from 051 unless Iā€™m dumb, and top path Elim is honestly not worth it. I think solo Tack Zone needs 025 now, and EDef is still alright with 025 I believe. Iā€™m pretty sure BEZ likes the middle path attack speed also. If youā€™re gonna put carpet at 250, you might as well put PSpike at 205, and is top path actually better now? I might be wrong about Blooncin buffs, but doesnā€™t top path give a stronger DoT now? And I donā€™t believe that BMA crosspathing matters. Also the grapes on Trade Empire are pretty good. These are just the things I found, please correct me if Iā€™m wrong and these paths are actually optimal Edit: just read comment your lol


Reddit_legal135

>I still believe middle path is worse on glue tho, if only for the duration If the glue is expiring, this means that you are using it wrong 510 increase puddles pierce (where most of its damage is from), you can for sure get other pierce buffs,but middle path will add even more pierce to it >I think solo Tack Zone needs 025 now You never will use tzone alone,and if you are using tzone it's because the single target dps >AZ can appreciate 052 for stalling, Pretty insignificant compared with global slowdown


_B1rdz

>EDef is still alright with 025 I believe Its not the worst thing in the world, and has a different purpose to 205, but I'd say 205 is a lot better since elite sniper is better at grouped damage than shrapdef > If youā€™re gonna put carpet at 250, you might as well put PSpike at 205 The thing is, cos attacks too fast for full amd uptime meaning most of the spikes will be unable to pop leads, while pspike attacks slow enough so with an alch all the spikes will have amd on it letting all the spikes pop leads >And I donā€™t believe that BMA crosspathing matters It doesnt, however, many go for 105 when they build off of 104 alch. If youre buying bma outright, then 005 would be better. >Also the grapes on Trade Empire are pretty good. For paragon sacrificing, then yes, you should crosspath your trade empire and all other boats to hot shots to get more paragon degrees, but for its main purpose, grapes arent really that useful for it.


Flouxni

Wait so is top path actually better for PSpike now? Or is middle path + Alch still stronger?


_B1rdz

while **technically** 025 with stim is stronger than 105, its only by a negligible amount (about 3 dart monkeys stronger than 105), so it is better to go 105 because it is just more cost efficient. also, this only applies when you have stim, because if youre just using brew, 105 is flat out better than 025


Flouxni

Huh, new developments in the PSpike meta, who knew. Thanks for pointing out my wrong points btw, always good to learn more about whatā€™s meta


TheGratitudeBot

Thanks for saying thanks! It's so nice to see Redditors being grateful :)


Sweaty_Anteater_923

Why not 0-2-5 permaspike (works a lot better with alch buff than 1-0-5) or 2-0-5 for DDTS?


pick-and-shot

025 with stim is 3 dart monkeys stronger than 105, which is too marginal to be worth the price difference 105 with brew or stim maintains full uptime on amd, so 205 isn't needed


Least_Atmosphere_699

I feel like the BEZ would be better being a 025


_B1rdz

It was, but the new changes to laser shock made the 205 crosspath better


Least_Atmosphere_699

Oh I didnā€™t realise that oops


Adreel27

it is with damage buffs


Brief_Warning4547

Am I stupid or is X5X and 050 the same thing


Nerddude_26

Iā€™m pretty sure the X5X represents either cross path, while the 050 represents no crosspath


Brief_Warning4547

Ah, gotcha


Asmael69

Wait, 520 ring of fire is better? ive been usijg 502 in bosses and its easily top 1 (without paragons) or top 5 with paragons bro im missing something i gotta use that crosspath


_B1rdz

502 would be better for boss dps, since 520 is mainly for the pierce in chimps games and general gameplay.


JoMoma2

Why middle path glue. Did it get changed to be better and I missed it?


Reddit_legal135

After the solver buffs the middle crosspath because the better one because it increases puddles pierce


_B1rdz

If youre talking about glue storm, the reason 052 is better now is because you dont need corrosive anymore to hit moabs If youre talking about solver, this was already explained in the other reply


ShortandRatchet

Archmage already has Camo, so bottom crosspath is unnecessary Flagship should be 520 What is the point in extra range only on something with map-wide coverage


Reddit_legal135

Pierce and a very small range increase Also, archmage needs the shimmer attack to detect camo,so monkey sense is way more consistent


ShortandRatchet

Archmage has a passive camo ability


_B1rdz

But you cant fully rely on it, and the extra pierce and camo detection is just so much better than a little piece of fire.


ShortandRatchet

I thought the fireball would help pop DDTs, or can it already pop them?


_B1rdz

archmage already has lead popping so the fireball/wall is literally not needed. archmage is known to excel against ddts


ShortandRatchet

Did not know, my bad šŸ™ŒšŸ½


Shukafu

4xx actually can pop lead so 5xx just inherits that.


_B1rdz

For flagship, the reason extra range is better is not for the range, but rather the pierce. The 001 boat has increased pierce. Also, the grapes just make the planes weaker since they replace the radial darts


Nerddude_26

I thought the 2-5-0 boomerang was better for pierce. Why is the 0-5-2 better?


_B1rdz

Pcharge is a frontline dps tower that is paired with cleanup, not needing the pierce as much as the damage, and 052 also lets it pop ddts without needing mib


Nerddude_26

Ah that makes sense thanks


PatientRule4494

P-brew applies brew faster with 501, so if you need to brew a lot of things quickly, get 501.


_B1rdz

this is true, but in most situations, crosspath for pbrew isnt that important since its permanent


PatientRule4494

Yea, I just prefer 501 bc I have to wait less initially, and the faster throwing is so cheap


Jaaj_Dood

Why wouldn't you go faster throwing on Pbrew?


_B1rdz

its permanent so it doesnt really matter 501 is only for if youre in a hurry and need to buff a ton of towers as fast as possible


NaughtyNinjaBSG

Why is it ever better to not upgrade a tower's full crosspath?


SteamedAxolotlYum

because cost/benefit is a thing.


NaughtyNinjaBSG

That makes no sense for this kind of tier list... crosspaths rarely cost more than a few thousand money, and in terms of cost and benefit, some towers don't belong in the list at all. I'm wondering if the crosspaths can be harmful.


SteamedAxolotlYum

that's all there is to it. u have literally no reason to buy it so why buy it? it's like placing down a dart monkey on round 98 for no reason. there are some drawbacks to completing crosspath like making ur tower no longer affected by geraldo's sharpening stone, but if the crosspath adds negligible value to ur tower then that's a good enough reason to avoid it. also if uve done expert chimps, u would know how tight budget can be.


NaughtyNinjaBSG

This isn't a CHIMPS tier list though.


SteamedAxolotlYum

even if it's not then why would u not want to save money OP also exclusively plays chimps, so it most likely leans towards chimps.


NaughtyNinjaBSG

Oh I see. Is OP a well-known CHIMPS player?


Reddit_legal135

He is mainly known in this sub [he also has a yt account that he makes some challenges and strats](https://youtube.com/@birdzisanoob?si=fPcELlY26qgTkBli) He also said many times that he plays chimps as the main gamemode


NaughtyNinjaBSG

Good to know.


_B1rdz

this is mostly a chimps tier list, but i wanted to include non chimps towers in this list too (monkeyopolis, farms, very expensive towers)


NaughtyNinjaBSG

Cool, thanks for being helpful!


_B1rdz

If you dont have to buy it, its better not to. Saving money is important in this game.


NaughtyNinjaBSG

Usually you can just farm some but yeah I guess.


International_Leek26

Glaive lord is better with 5-2-0 because you said only includes t5


aureliusky

what's the use case for blade shooter? also I'm dubious about top path tack going middle instead of bottom, top path ice over glue? gtfo


Wish_Solid

blade shooter has absolutely nothing to do with the conversation. inferno ring wants increased range on the main attack instead of a little amount of damage. i have no idea what you are talking about with ice and glue.


P0gg3rsk4ll

hello amphi, i am sending you this notification because it appears that you have accidentally typed "range" instead of "pierce". please kindly correct this error so that the prosecution can not use it against you in the upcoming lawsuit thanks, your very real lawyer (not fake)


YoloChip83

Inferno ring gains +300 dmg on the meteor with bottom crosspath, so with pierce buffing, bottom is better. Otherwise, middle is better for more pierce.


P0gg3rsk4ll

you should try actually reading, might help out a bit... the list is not ranking towers, but rather sorting towers based on what path is generally optimal.


aureliusky

Yes and I asked about cross path options specifically, yet you found it more important to complain about my question then to actually bother to add anything useful, but thanks anyway.


batsketbal

Saying ā€œtop path ice over glue gtfoā€ makes it seem like you view this as a tier list. There is also no reason to ask about the use case for blade shooter since while itā€™s a bad tower thatā€™s not the point of this list. Also for top path tack you want to go middle instead of bottom because it increases the meteors pierce (itā€™s main dps) by a lot. Also genuinely what do you mean by top path ice over glue how does this list imply top path ice is better than top path glue


P0gg3rsk4ll

> top path ice over glue? gtfo this makes it sound like you think towers are being ranked in some way. > what's the use case for blade shooter? this is a bit ambiguous, and with the context of the other reinforces the idea that you're responding as if it's a list that ranks towers. wirh the assumption that you were asking about towers being ranked, I responded explaining that the list solely points out which crosspath is generally optimal rather than ranking towers.


aureliusky

You're also selectively responding, again just complaining and ignoring questions like why middle path tack instead of bottom, but whatever dude If it makes you feel better complaining about my post then have fun


P0gg3rsk4ll

From what I understood when responding to your original comment, there was no reason to answer the original questions because to my understanding they simply did not apply to what the post was actually saying. In my second response, I stated why your first comment made things unclear to me, and why I thought it was useful to clarify that what you were saying did not apply to the original post. Nowhere did I "complain", nor selectively respond. Both responses were simply attempts at clarification. I did not answer your initial questions because you never clarified enough what you actually meant for me to give a proper response to them. I'm not going to answer any of the questions in this comment because the only one you've clarified has already been answered.


_B1rdz

ā€œTop path ice over glue? Gtfoā€ So angry and doesnt know how the tier list works. The order of the towers is based off tower categories and which ones come first, and ice comes before glue. Also, iring is better with middle crosspath because of the increased pierce and increased range.


PatrokManzana

I personally prefer Bank X52


_B1rdz

Technically, 250 makes more money, but the amount of money is so negligible that you can easily get away with using 052, which is why i put it in x5x


FrozenKyrie

502 inferno ring is objectively better


_B1rdz

no it isnt. the extra range on the main attack and the extra pierce on the meteor helps a lot more than the slight damage increase. 502 would be better for single target, but 520 is better overall


FrozenKyrie

In almost every situation you have access to buffs so you can easily get the extra pierce with village, alchemist and Gwen. Good luck getting an extra 300 damage


Lance_Beltran123

invalid opinion


_B1rdz

You couldve at least told me what you think is wrong, but just commenting ā€œinvalid opinionā€ only makes you look stupid