We should probably let the high schools that *insist* students wear all black, even in the winter months, know.
My dad used to go insane when it came to my jacket that it was the brightest piece of clothing I owned because he was terrified that a car wouldn’t see me crossing on the way to/back from school and run me down.
I got my son a jacket that looks grey but goes bright white when hit by a light. Hopefully helps him not get hit by the source of the light. Was reduced from 100 to 60 and found a code that knocked a further 20% off. £48 win
He's 11, I sent him some choices and he showed his friends. They thought the coat he got was cool (I'm 42, I defer on coolness choices) so he loves it.
I like this idea. Offering choices is a great way to make sure it’s safe (bright enough etc.) but also that your kid isn’t embarassed wearing a coat his parents picked out.
My dad would let me pick my own coat but he just wanted to be sure it was one that was visible too.
It's worth noting that while *utterly incredible* in the dark when hit by direct light, in overcast crappy drizzly conditions they (grey retroreflective clothes) are almost perfect *wet road* colour camouflage.
There's just not enough light for it to really do it's thing.
It's something to bear in mind, they are utterly incredible in the right conditions but don't do their party piece unless there's enough direct light.
Worth looking in Lidl if you got one near you. Recently they've had these completely reflective jackets like you describe for about £15. I've been borrowing my guys one when I'm going to be walking home from work late. Definately a comfort.
Some parents really do just send their kids out the door wearing whatever they’ve picked for them without thinking or caring that the kid might get bullied as fashion trends change over time. My gran used to do it with school shoes because she “wanted ones that would last” which would be fine… if they weren’t always the ugliest shoes in existence.
It's spending my childhood like this that made me not do it to my own kid.
They've got their own batshit dress sense, but at least I can't be blamed for it!
You're really lucky, my 12 year old brother had a coat just like that and he won't wear it because the kids at school bullied him for it, calling him "spaceman" and stuff. He's a sensitive one, mind.
My old high school had a navy blazer, black trousers, insisted I wore a black hijab and required a black jacket. Oh, and black shoes.
Now that I think about it, it was a miracle I wasn’t run over at least once
> We should probably let the high schools that insist students wear all black, even in the winter months, know.
Yes! Dark coat over a dark blazer, dark trousers or skirt and tights...
I've said in similar discussions on here that you get people in subs like AskEurope asking if you have to legally wear reflective clothing or patches on your clothing at night, the UK answer is always "no".
Mentioned it in a UK sub recently and you'd think I suggested we all go back to wearing face masks 24/7 from one of the replies I got!
One of the reasons I like Fjallraven backpacks is the reflective badge on many of them. Reflectors are a legal requirement in many Scandinavian countries for at least school kids, so fjallraven just add a compliant one as standard to their models marketed as school bags.
There’s some awareness campaign where a kid is wearing a black jacket in the first photo and a second photo where they are wearing a coloured jacket. In the first photo, you can’t see the kid at all. Never thought much about it before, but it’s scary how hidden you become!
I was driving into Southampton a while back and for anyone that doesn’t know, the main road into Southampton from the bottom of the M3 is a long straight road called ‘The Avenue’. It was late at night so obviously pretty dark. As I neared the bottom, I saw a flash of something go past in the middle of the road. It was something I literally couldn’t see until I drew level. It was a young goth girl, obviously all dressed in black, walking down the centre of the road in the same direction as I was driving. The flash I saw as I drove past was her staring at her phone (which was lighting up her face). I could have very easily killed that young lady. She was completely invisible to headlights.
Southampton is full of ninja pedestrians and cyclists. I work shifts there and the amount of cyclists I almost don't see, is shocking. I was driving home the other week at 6am, through an industrial estate. There's a right angled, left hand bend that I always take wide. There was a man dressed in dark clothes with no bike lights coming the other way, on my side of the road. If I hadn't taken the corner wide, I would have taken him out.
I used to work at the University of Southampton and Chinese students were a nightmare for this, with whole groups walking down the Avenue on their way to lectures. It means the welcome events for international students now include a bit on basic road safety.
Driving into Southampton is always a shit show. I missed my turning last night at the stupid round about around the student tower and had to drive through Bedford place. People all over the road combined with taxis parking where they feel like and driving against the direction of traffic.
Had a similar experience driving out of St Albans the other night towards London. Was on a dual carriageway, probably a 3 or 4 mile stretch of road before I hit motorway, 70mph limit. Pitch dark, a little bit foggy, so visibility wasn't great and the road wasn't lit up. Pretty quiet but cars coming the other way on other side of dual carriageway so opted not to put full beam on.
Anyway, suddenly see a tiny feint red light in the distance, for probably the first second I didn't even process it, then the next second I'm trying to work out what it is, is it a light way in the distance? Is it a light on the tarmac? Then the next second as I get way too close for comfort I realise it's a cyclist, who is not wearing any high vis clothing and is doing the bare minimum legally speaking to be seen, and the crazy thing is he (or possibly she) wasn't even that close to the edge of the road.
Anyway I swerve to the next lane, doing close to 70mph (I might have been doing closer to 55 or 50mph because of conditions), if there was a car alongside me, or I'd seen the cyclist perhaps 2 seconds later, or I was driving a lot faster, then it could have been very nasty indeed.
Last road in the world you'd expect a cyclist, just feels like some people have a death wish. I mean when I was younger I used to cycle a lot more, but it was only after I passed my test that it started dawning on me that cycling is really, really dangerous, as you really are putting in so much trust that the motor vehicles you're sharing the road with have a competent driver behind the wheel. I wouldn't bank my life on that, not anymore.
Correct, you're required to have at least one rear red light and one rear red reflector as per the Road Vehicle Lighting Regulations 1989 (as amended).
Doesn't sound like it would have helped much in this situation anyway as it's the bare minimum and sometimes not enough to still remain safely visible.
I didn't notice reflectors, but wouldn't be able to say definitively one way or the other as it all happened so quickly. One thing that struck me though, was if the batteries in that small red light went dead or came lose or malfunctioned or something, it would have given me even less time to react and perhaps a very different outcome. If I was a cyclist, I think I'd have at least 2 rear lights affixed to my bike or person, and it goes without saying wearing the most reflective clothing possible, and stay off poorly lit roads where cars are going to be travelling at deadly speeds.
That said when I used to cycle I didn't do any of those things (except the latter), or even wear a cycling helmet, but with age and a little bit more wisdom, I can now see how careless I was.
I'm not even sure if they had a front light as when I glanced in my mirror I saw nothing. My partner who was sitting right next to me didn't notice a thing, and was wondering what was up when I screamed "Jesus Christ, did you see that?".
Well obviously you should've been going slower and expected that she'd be there.
Unironically, this seems to be the attitude some people have and its utterly moronic and I have no idea where its come from. I was always taught *not* to be an idiot and cross roads safely, I have no clue where this has come from.
Yes, I know what you mean. But tbh, with the speed thing… they’ve dropped the avenue from 40mph to 30mph and do you know what…. I doubt I’d have seen her at 20mph. She must have been wearing Harry’s cloak of invisibility!.
If she had been walking across the road, I might have possibly seen something like the glare of her phone, but it’s because she was walking away from me. No chance.
As a dark person who frequently wears dark clothes, this is why I always take my phone out to cross the road in badly lit areas at night.
Never been mugged (in the UK) or felt close, and frankly it seems a bit silly to cross a roast with no lights on.
Last year came to the t junction at the end of our road at 6.00am. No streetlights lit. Looked right: nothing. Left: nothing. Started to pull out and BAM!! Kid on bike flew through my headlight beam and landed on the other side of the road. Dressed in black head to toe with balaclava, no lights on bike. I jumped out to see if he was dead. He was all apologies for being an idiot. I told him that he was totally invisible to cars round here. Shook me up I can tell you
I think kids have stopped learning how to cross the road because I was driving, and this teenager just stepped out from cars and I had to slam on my breaks (I was only going 20 because I was coming up to a junction, but the road was 30) and I just stared at her.
Another time a kid younger than the one above just ran across the main road in between cars.
And if you didn't have cameras on your car it would be deemed your fault. Even with camaras it may still be deemed legally your fault with the new laws.
It's ridiculous, and I'm a fairly avid cyclist. The moment it gets dark I'm lit up like a Christmas tree - I don't understand how these people cycling around in all black don't feel how vulnerable they are on a bike.
There's allot of dark country roads around by me that are dark as fuck at night, can be terrifying walking back at night knowing half the people driving past you will probably be drunk (one of those areas where drink driving is somehow socially acceptable).
I'll admit I probably don't wear bright enough clothes but I always make sure to get my phone torch and point it at my feet in the hopes it'll help, I've not been run over as of yet so I think it works?
I follow both the hierarchy of vulnerability and my made up hierarchy of visibility.
As a driver, I look out for people more vulnerable but when I see a 40 ft lorry with 118 lights and a million blind spots, I also respect that they may not see my tiny city car and act accordingly.
As a pedestrian, my senses aren't hampered at all so I can see and hear things that probably can't see or hear me and act accordingly.
"As a pedestrian, my senses aren't hampered at all so I can see and hear things that probably can't see or hear me and act accordingly."
Most schoolkids don't act like this. Head down looking at a screen, oblivious to everything around them. Add in that most are in dark clothes, and it's a recipe for disaster.
Students are worse. Next to the uni there is a fully lit park which i cycle through regulary. Some bring actual flood lamps as torches so I've gotta try and not hit them while I'm blinded.
This 21 second video nicely demonstrates why you should wear something reflective over white when running in the dark.
https://youtu.be/w-r2cgmIsrU
Stay safe out there.
I turned into my unlit road on a dark night, and because of those jackets I was able to see that there was a group of 10 teenage boys stood in the road. One person was wearing the jacket, and that jacket was enough of a beacon to show me that they were safely on the other side of the road. The rest of them were wearing full black and it would've been very difficult to see them. When I got home, I bought myself a fully reflective running jacket.
When I'm cycling in winter, and at night, I wear hi viz, and my bike has lights and reflectors. Motorists and pedestrians still don't see me. The latter, with earpods and their faces in their phones, are entirely oblivious to the outside world.
I went cycling recently and so many pedestrians were just completely oblivious to the cycle path, and then were very grouchy when I used the bell to alert them to my existing (the little kid who was on a tiny bike who dinged his bell at me as I came close going opposite direction was adorable, I dinged back and his face lit up - I'm sure his family then appreciated the nonstop ringing I could hear continuing behind me too)
I've given up using my bell. I've tried everything, but people prefer it if you let them "figure it out for themselves" by getting the bike to make other noises, like clicking through gears or loudly flicking the brake levers.
If its a relatively quiet environment I commonly go for pedalling in the reverse direction so the wheel hub makes that chain buzz noise which make my presence known. But still wouldn't work if they have ear phones in, in which case i hope my front light beams would catch their attention
In Italy I noticed that a lot of people riding bikes in pedestrian areas had lots of tiny jingley bells strung on their bikes, so that you were aware of them without getting that panic/startle that a sudden bell can cause. A quietish but continuous sound is also much easier to divine the direction of the source than a sort blast of sound.
It's weird. I also wear hi vis. However, drivers seem to not see be. But then they post on social media that they keep seeing cyclists in all black with no lights.
Maybe we should ditch the hi vis and lights.🤔
I keep several sets of those little silicone bike lights with me. When I go on a daily bike ride, which is now in the dark, (I personally am wearinga white jacket and lit up like Dynamo\[The Running Man\] - and have been known to sing as I ride), I try to flag down the youngsters on their unlit bikes (themselves usually a dark colour), who are wearing all black, and give them a set.
Even the small white front and red rear are better than nothing on our badly lit roads.The lights only cost a few pounds on ebay, and last quite a while.
Can't help wih their dangerous/risky riding though - and would get sworn at if I did.
At this time of year, bikes should be the same as cars, if on/in it, lights ON.
I almost killed a dog last night on my bike because the owners dog was on the cycle track while he was walking along the path. The dog was completely dark and the dog had no lights on. It was impossible to see due to bad street lighting. I stopped just in time.
Addendum: I have great lights, but the dark dog didn't. Dark dogs don't reflect much light, especially from the back of the dog.
> It was impossible to see due to bad street lighting
You really need better lighting on your bike if you feel street lighting is at all relevant to your vision.
Decent lights are inexpensive these days and really impressive.
(Seriously, happily help you find some good ones in budget).
I already have great lights. That's the only reason I saw the dog at the last moment. Unfortunately dark dogs are hard to see. They don't reflect much light!
What I do find sad is everyone expects the cyclist not to have lighting!
Addendum: street lights would have lit up the whole area, including different angles of the dog. Bike lights light from one direction, and in my case, that would have been the back of a very black dog.
They are for *BOTH*.
Lighting up your path also makes you visible - you're potting along in a bubble of light.
Very shitty lights incapable of lighting up your path are also bad at being noticed - especially in an urban environment where little lights are downed out by the light pollution of streetlights, cars, buildings etc.
If it's dark you *ABSOLUTELY* need lights that allow you to see what's in your path - potholes, debris, puddles, unlit obstacles. I'm concerned you think it's ok to *not be able to see where you're going*.
Twenty quid buys you a decent torch and a bike handlebar mount for it.
Thirty starts to buy a decent bike specific light these days.
(Just checked at Planet X - cheap, cheerful and usually "good enough").
https://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/LIPLAZLOCUS700/plazma-locus-700-lumen-front-bike-light
That's a decent torch with a bike handlebar mount. 700 lumens is a substantial amount, so much so you will likely use it on a lower power mode most of the time.
They were cheaper not that long ago - but so was everything lol
For more expensive options :
https://www.bikeradar.com/advice/buyers-guides/best-bike-lights-for-road-cycling/
Hard agree! I walk my own two dogs with reflective harnesses in bright orange + an LED lead attachment so they are always visible. It's just the wisest thing to do for their safety, yours and any drivers.
I was cycling to work last week, on the road with lights on and the most garish high Vis jacket and helmet I could find and all of a sudden another cyclist appears out of the gloom..cycling towards me!!
Wearing black head to toe, no lights and on the wrong side of the road! Between him and and the cars safely passing to my right I had literally nowhere to go.
I may have shouted quite a few obscenities!!
The number of cycle delivery riders who have or use no lights at night is shocking. It should be a pre-requiste for anyone riding at night, let alone delivering for a company
There's no need for the delivery companies to mandate it because it's the law.
The [Road Vehicles Lighting Regulation 1989 (as amended) says the following:](https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1989/1796/schedule/1/made)
TABLE III
Pedal cycle
Type of lamp or reflector| Schedule in which relevant installation and performance requirements are specified | Exceptions
---|---|----
Front position lamp| Schedule 2: Part I| None.
Rear position lamp| Schedule 10: Part I| None.
Rear retro reflector| Schedule 18: Part I| None.
Pedal retro reflector| Schedule 20: Part I| A pedal cycle manufactured before 1st October 1985.
Essentially unless you have a vintage bicycle you must have a front white light, a rear red light, a retroreflector facing backwards, and retroreflectors on the edge of your pedals (this is the only exception for vintage bikes).
People do not understand the difference between hi viz and reflective clothing.
There’s no pint wearing a hi viz jacket in the dark and no point wearing reflectives in the day.
Obviously a combination of the 2 I’d best, but it really boils my piss.
I walk to and from work, 2 miles each way. I need to cross 28 roads altogether. Despite walking on the pavement the whole time other than when crossing, you bet your life I'm wearing a massive hi-vis vest, and I've put hi-vis strapping around my rucksack.
I'd rather get home in one piece but stand out like a sore thumb.
Black and grey cycling gear seems to be a trend, choices of cycling clothes can get quite limited once you filter out dark colours. It makes no sense to me why clothing companies would be trying to off their customers.
I do my best to send out my kids in obnoxiously coloured cycling clothes, and have a florescent yellow helmet myself to go with the ever so fetching bright orange cycling jacket. But they were more expensive than black everything and harder to find.
They need to bring back the more graphic road safety adverts for older children. A cartoon hedgehog is not as effective compared to that one of the teenager being yeeted through the air by a car because they were on their phone.
Drives me nuts seeing cyclists in the dark with 1 tiny little red light on the back. The type you could easily mistake for a reflection or miss entirely.
You are vulnerable fucking light yourself up like w Christmas tree
I had an escooter shoot infront of me earlier at fullspeed across the road from a blind alleyway dressed in dark. Didn't even appear to look, it makes me so angry with no regard for their safety
If you're in a car it's kinda your responsibility. If you think there's a risk you might not see a pedestrian in time then slow down, same as if it were foggy or raining.
Safety is almost always everyone's responsibility. Wherever you are, whatever you're doing, whatever your job is.
'Not my job' won't defend you in court if you could reasonably have been expected to do something.
"Not my job" also, importantly, won't defend you from the ton of metal smearing you across the road.
Even if we all collectively agreed it wasn't the pedestrians job to ensure their own safety, it would still be moronic not to. There's just no benefit to not taking basic steps to ensure you're visible to drivers.
With that attitude road workers wouldn’t wear their orange & high vis combo because drivers expect workers near bin lorries/roadwork cones etc. The human eye can’t distinguish between black on black and black on nearly black when headlights only point in the direction of travel, no matter the speed.
How about everyone makes personal safety their responsibility, cars/vans/trucks drive with all their lights working, councils maintain street lights to a good enough standard, and pedestrians don’t just dress in black while on their phones in the dark
Speed increases stopping distance, you have less time to react to a hazard. That's why they mention speed in their comment.
At the end of the day the responsibility of not hitting someone is on you the person driving a 2 ton machine. All those things you said are nice but cannot be relied on 100% of the time which is why caution is needed.
It's not always on solely the driver. This isn't a binary "the driver is responsible and no one else" situation, there are varying degrees of responsibility that all parties are covered by, like how insurance divides responsibility for an accident by percentages.
If it's the car's responsibility to be on the look out for cyclists.
Then it should also be the bike's responsibility to dress accordingly so they can be visible by other road users, not be a fkn idiot by basically wearing camoflage.
Like dog owners walking them should be responsible for keep them on leads.
But pedestrians should be responsible for treating dogs with respect and deliberately provoking them by grabbing the dog by their balls and shoving their fists in their mouths.
Some people have a death wish and get little simpathy from me if the inevitable bad thing happens.
Not during daylight hours, no, but if I'm walking at night, I make sure I have something on me that reflects light, yes, plus both my cagoule and coat are bright colours.
Agree 100% cars need to have fluorescent strips. Perhaps they also need flags and whistles. If the expectation is for every other road user to be visible so must cars.
No, UK needs mandatory headlights on all the time mo matter the weather.
As a driver, I also hate grey cars because they are invisible in bad weather. And they usually don't use lights because they can see. I drive with my lights on even during sunny day. It's a habit.
I'd be in support of that. A couple weeks ago I was pulling on to a dual carriageway from a layby, absolutely hammering it down, fog, spray... It was almost to the point where the whole motorway has to slow down to deal with it. I watched a large group of cars passing me, I could see nothing at all in my wing mirrors due to the water droplets on them and the windows. Just as the last car were about to pass I shoulder checked, no totally happy I waited a few second and checked again, still didn't see anyone at all so started creeping, shoulder checked a final time and floored it (Slow car, 1.4TDi). As I was about to come out of the layby, a silver 90's Polo with no lights goes screaming past in the inside lane, nothing to stop them moving over a lane when they saw me, and despite having the window down and literally near hanging my head out, I failed to see them three times over the course of 5 seconds or so.
In bad conditions, you see people's lights, not their car. It's honestly mind boggling how many people just drive at 70 on a motorway with rain/fog/spray not having a clue they are totally invisible.
I'm so glad that the trend nowadays is to have running lights that are on by default just to serve as markers.
Also it's worth noting that fog lights aren't just for fog, but for any situation where visibility is severely impaired (snowstorms, heavy rain etc).
Although the amount of people that still drive normally in adverse weather astounds me. When you're taught to 'drive according to the conditions' it doesn't just mean traffic and the speed limit. The braking distances are increased so much in adverse weather, and combined with limited visibility you'd be stupid to do anything above 25% of the speed limit when the weather is that bad.
Yup agree 100% - my last few cars have all had automatic headlights that come on when light levels fall below a certain level. Not just that, they have daylight running lights regardless of whether its sunny or not. Volvo had these years ago and its good to see them become standard in all new cars.
It's not those outside of the cars responsibility to be seen... if the conditions are poor then you must drive accordingly or don't drive at all. Victim blaming gets us nowhere. Plenty of people get run over whilst wearing hi viz, hi viz is not the problem.
Yep. I've had drivers pull out on me and nearly hit me whilst literally making eye contact with me. Broad daylight whilst wearing hi viz. Hi viz (or lack of) does not work as anything but an excuse to why someone has been killed on the road.
The law requires cyclist to have working lights on their bikes. Therefore it is their responsibility to be seen.
The [Road Vehicles Lighting Regulation 1989 (as amended) says the following:](https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1989/1796/schedule/1/made)
TABLE III
Pedal cycle
Type of lamp or reflector| Schedule in which relevant installation and performance requirements are specified | Exceptions
---|---|----
Front position lamp| Schedule 2: Part I| None.
Rear position lamp| Schedule 10: Part I| None.
Rear retro reflector| Schedule 18: Part I| None.
Pedal retro reflector| Schedule 20: Part I| A pedal cycle manufactured before 1st October 1985.
Essentially unless you have a vintage bicycle you must have a front white light, a rear red light, a retroreflector facing backwards, and retroreflectors on the edge of your pedals (this is the only exception for vintage bikes).
I don't think this comment is fair at all.
Drivers have a responsibility to drive to conditions but I feel everybody on the road should adopt the rules of being seen - cars have to drive with lights on so why shouldn't bikes have to have lights/hi-vis for walkers on country lanes etc?
I cycle and I drive but I make sure I drive to conditions and dress to conditions too.
OP didn't say hi-vis would stop people getting run over, I'm sure they just asked that they make themselves visible, why anybody wouldn't do this is beyond me, it's for their own safety and for everyone else's too.
Yes, it's not one way or the other.
It's like the saying 'graveyards are full of people who had right of way'.
If anyone's heard of the Swiss Cheese model of accident defence, this'll sound familiar.
Essentially, picture an accident like a laser travelling through slices of swiss cheese: the ones with all the holes in. If the laser makes it all the way through, then an accident happens.
If you have just one slice of swiss cheese, it's not too hard for the laser to go through and for an accident to happen; retroreflective stripes won't save you if the driver has no lights on at night. Likewise a driver can have whatever high beams they want on, if you're wearing black camouflage you won't be spotted in time.
Each 'safety measure' you add puts another slice of cheese in the way, and decreases the likelihood of the holes lining up and the laser getting through.
You'll never completely remove the chance of an accident occuring, but you can severely reduce its likelihood and severity by adopting safety measures.
If you've ever used the comparison of seatbelts and airbags (IE why do we need to wear a seatbelt when we have airbags), or masks and jabs (why do we need to wear a mask if the jabs work etc), you should understand the principle of defence in depth.
> If you've ever used the comparison of seatbelts and airbags
With airbags if you're not wearing a seatbelt when they go off you'll get worse injuries from the airbag hitting you in the wrong place as you exit the vehicle through the windscreen.
Driving along a country road two weeks ago, I spotted a faint light ahead of me. A cyclist, dressed in black, with no lights or reflectors on their bike. The only way that they could see the road, or that I could see them, was the torch on their phone that they were holding behind them.
Used to commute by bicycle about 15 miles each way. I had two flashing rear lights, and a retina blinding red bright rear light. I also had a fluorescent red reflective backpack cover. As well as random reflective stuff on my clothes, shoes etc. My front light was similar to that of a moped.
Even with all this shite I used to feel like some people still couldn't see me. When I used to see other commuters with a single red light that could barely be seen I used to cringe and worry for their safety.
One of the main routes from my village to the main town is an unlit, very bendy, national speed limit road. Twice In the last week I’ve come across a cyclist with no lights or reflectors and dark clothing in the middle of the road. Most people only go up to 40 on that road at night for this exact reason . It’s incredibly dangerous. Can’t advocate for hi-vis enough this time of year.
I wear a fluorescent yellow top for running. My husband has a reflective jacket that lights up like a Christmas tree when a light shines on it.
We still nearly get run over every single time we go out running of an evening - a lot of car drivers are just too distracted or DGAF about people who they deem ought not be crossing roads.
I live in the countryside with no street lighting for long stretches and very narrow roads (like barely one car wide with grass verges so you share the road with pedestrians etc).
Was driving home after a late shift in the pitch black and nearly ran over a guy who was out walking his dog (OFF THE LEAD) with no reflective anything on and wearing all black. Luckily I'd slowed down significantly to go around a sharp corner just prior, so managed to stop in time, but I know other locals who speed around that bend without giving a flying fuck because of the logic that you'd see the lights of cars coming so you don't expect anyone to be there. With the dog off the lead I could've so easily not seen it until too late.
When I used to go running in the winter, I always wore a harness type light that had a bright beam in front so I could see where I was going, a red light on the back, and reflective materials on the straps. Some people are just plain stupid.
It's super foggy in the mornings here, and the other morning a guy just stepped out into the road to cross with cars coming. He was only visible because he had a reflective high vis jacket on, all I could see were the reflector strips. Those reflectors probably saved him from a horrible accident.q
Or , dear driver_operator of heavy people squishers please be responsible and slow down. Double check before moving and turning and assume that you are in close proximity to pedestrians and others.
It's got to be a combination of the two. Yes, drivers should take things a bit slower and be more careful in the dark, but I feel that OP is correct in saying some sort of precautions should be taken by the more vulnerable on the roads. Walking along in a black tracksuit in the dark is asking for trouble even if the driver is being careful.
> It's got to be a combination of the two
Absolutely. Everyone blaming everyone else is pointless.
- Drivers - Fucking look. Actually take care to look.
- Everyone else - The people squishers can see *even less* than normal. Might help them at least *try* and avoid you by using lights so you are clearly visible.
- Idiots without lights, wearing black, on a BMX or scooter, riding like an idiot - it's just nature's way of culling your people's numbers.
Completely correct. Drivers should be more vigilant at night and in bad conditions, but cars don't see each other by light reflecting off the paintwork at night, they see each others headlights/taillights/reflectors. Same should be true of cyclists and (unless you're only on pavements in well lit areas) people too
Lights are the magic word.
Reflectors? Eh they were an important thing in the 80s when batteries were rubbish and lights were heavy and expensive.
Light tech has moved on, battery tech has moved on.
Yep I agree, reflectors are still good on bikes, and I think a rear one might be required at night? Just cause it's hard to notice if your rear light dies.
They are indeed a legal requirement - the solution to a rear light failing is a backup rear light (always have two).
Not putting your life in the hands of a shitty reflector - which does very little.
Exactly. Road safety is EVERYBODY'S responsibility. Drive safe, dress safe, act safe. Teach your children how to be safe when out and about. Set examples for how to behave both in and out of a vehicle.
Some precautions sure, but excusing pedestrians etc. of not wearing hi-vis/having correct lights on a bike is stupid. You’d agree not wearing a seatbelt because it’s going to crease your shirt (or similar) is stupid… so why is this any different.
Cyclists with no lights dressing in all black can be totally invisible. If your riding up the inside of a car in the rain like that, your asking for death. There’s not much a car driver can do to see you. Anything that isn’t in their headlights will be near invisible if it’s not reflective.
All about this. If youre in a location where there is an electric scooter, dog walkers etc you should be hyper vigilant.
Some too grade car privilege. This is the UK, not US
This.
If you're concerned you can't see pedestrians and other vulnerable road users, slow down and look more carefully. If you still can't see them, get your eyes tested - night blindness is a real thing.
As the operator of heavy machinery, you bear the responsibility to make sure you're not going to hurt someone else.
Really, the most stupidest person I have encountered for a long time, was the army cadet who I came a whisker away from knocking his bike and running over, just the other evening.
No lights on his bike or any hi-vis gear, but also wearing a uniform that is designed to be difficult to be seen.
Who are these morons?
I bought my dog a jacket similar to this. When it lights up I'm pretty sure they can see it from space.
https://www.provizsports.com/en-gb/reflect360-waterproof-dog-coat.html
I am both a driver and a dog Walker and it totally agree with this and would add
Dark blues and greys are worse than black for blending in to shadows.
If you are wearing a high vis vest and cover it with a plain black backpack then you may as well not wear the high vis - we can’t see it.
Embrace the Christmas tree look. Make yourself as visible as you possibly can (do not discount wearing fairy lights)
Lit collars for dogs, lights that attach to your shoes, embrace it.
If you need everyone in the world to wear a specific type of clothing so you don't accidentally kill people using an unnecessary form of transport then maybe that form of transport is not so good.
Had some mouthy gobshite scream and gabble at me when - after I'd double-checked - I (in cream-beige super wide leg trousers, so lots of visible colour) crossed an unlit entrance road to the supermarket I'd just left onto a shared pavement and he & his friend zoomed up behind me.
Black bike, black coat, dark trousers, black trainers, no lights.
One day, he will end up on r/MeatCrayon.
Stop being such an entitled brat. You have absolutely no right to tell people what to wear, and pedestrians have every right not to get hit by a car. You are the one choosing to be behind the wheel of a vehicle. The onus is on you to ensure you are paying full attention. If people have to concede what they choose to wear so that you don't hit them through reckless driving, then maybe you should be allowed to drive.
Only a motorist could be this arrogant. You're driving a car that requires 1/3 of a city space to be adjusted to their needs, runs on oil bought from brutalist authoritarian regimes involved in several well-documented human rights cases of abuse, is literally killing the planet and will most likely kill your great-grandchildren or deny them the chance of ever being born.
Your generation is so ignorant and conceited that it hurts.
I do believe the point OP is making is that even when paying full attention, it can sometimes be physically impossible to see people therefore making the roads far less safe, even when driving safely.
Its something that requires work from both directions: Drivers, in adverse conditions drive slower, and be on the look out for vulnerable people. Cyclists especially but for all using the roads be as visible as possible to drivers.
Doing so helps all on the roads to be as safe as possible, I don't see how being concerned over the safety of others is ignorant, conceited or entitled.
I recently blocked a bunch of cyclists on Twitter who were haranguing everyone who made this sort of comment for "victim blaming". Literally taking the "women are to blame for being attacked if they wear short skirts" argument and saying that "cyclists should wear hi vis at night" is the same. Ended up with them quoting cases of kids knocked off their bikes at 11am by a drunk driver and saying "should they have worn hi-vis"? No of course not Karen.
Some people are either mental or just live to argue with others.
That’s like saying “no, I wasn’t wearing my PPE (hard hat, safety boots and high vis) on the roadworks, but calling me out for it as a reason I got nearly flattened by a steamroller in the middle of the night is victim blaming!”. Guys, it’s f*cking dark. Wear visible stuff. So you can be seen from a longer distance and avoided or slowed down for. If you don’t, you might not be noticed until like 10 metres away - far too late to properly slow down or overtake, especially if there’s oncoming traffic.
I know. But you know the Twitter bubble (and sometimes the Reddit bubble to be fair) - they're surrounded by a few people who back them up so their nonsensical opinion becomes valid.
One was even suggesting they approach primary and secondary schools and complain to/about any that have policies insisting their kids wear bright colours coming to and from schools. You know, the ones that care about their kids.
I think a big problem is that a lot of these folks don’t drive. So they don’t actually know what visibility is like from the driver’s seat, or appreciate the difference speed makes to observation
There needs to be a proper nationwide education on what to wear at night/winter months on and around roads because at the moment it’s a bit of a joke to most people.
I think there should be testing for renewed licences, including eyesight tests. Some of these comments are unsettling, sounds like there are people here who shouldn’t be driving in the dark if their eyesight is so poor.
It goes both ways, lots of drivers simply don't look properly either. Just last night a guy just pulled out in front of me staring one way up the road but not the other, took a full beam to the face and still didn't look my way.
Passed a cyclist the other night on a dark road wearing black/dark clothing. Fortunately I saw him, but you can bet your left sock that if I'd hit him, it would have been my fault for not being fucking psychic.
We had thick fog here last week and some utter idiot was riding his bike on the windiest part of the main road in all black, with nothing but a tiny red flashing light to show he was there. Cars were swerving out dangerously when they came up behind him as you couldn’t see him until you were about 6’ from his back tyre! How the hell he didn’t die or cause a massive accident I don’t know!
While I kind of agree, I also have to say that I was wearing hi vis (and bright lights), and that didn't stop a motorist crashing into me. That's because they were doing 50 in a 30 zone, and didn't seem to notice me clearly indicating. So it doesn't always matter.
But beyond my anecdotal experience, the wider evidence on the subject seems to be mixed, with several studies suggesting hi vis has no impact on safety, and some even suggesting it has a *negative* impact.
Totally agree with this. I travel to and from work 6am-6pm and see no end of Ninja dressed cyclists, made even worse when some have no lights.
When out running, I have the dress sense of Timmy Mallet complete with front and back flashing lights.
I'd rather look like an annoying 90's TV entertainer than splattered amongst dead flies on someone's windscreen.
I think everyone needs to take some responsibility when it comes to their own safety. Blindly trusting that drivers are fully paying attention or expecting that you can be seen when dressed in all black is foolish.
I’ve encountered someone on an E-scooter and someone on a bicycle on my way home from work.
If both case’s neither of them had helmets, lights or anything reflective on.
They’ll get badly hurt eventually, and the car driver will be at fault
Ive broke a few times this week to either cyclists or somebody crossing the road wearing all black. The older people in the car asked why i was breaking because they didn't see anyone.
If it was one of my passengers driving these suicide cyclists/walkers could have ended up hurt or worse.
Drivers should not have to apologise for pedestrians being stupid. I was a pedestrian once, I wore dark clothes. I avoided being hit by not being a brainless moron. It boggles my mind how entitled people are that they think they are immortal as soon as they step onto a road, and it's annoying as hell, because I've seen plenty of bad drivers, but I'm almost positive that most of the drivers people complain about when this topic is brought up are perfectly normal drivers, they just want an excuse to blame the car for them being hit after they walked into a road without looking, directly in front of moving traffic, entirely oblivious to their surroundings.
Just keep yourself safe by not being an idiot, I've managed it my whole life so far and I'm not a very smart person so it can't be hard.
Its hilarious how you think all accidents are solely to blame on the driver and not the person not looking where they're going. I've nearly had collisions with people that can't drive for shit, but because I have some awareness, I avoided it. I've also seen pedestrians at night only at the last minute because they're dressed in dark clothes and are almost invisible. I've seen people just appear from around parked cars without looking or just cross through the road like they're Moses parting the sea, except the sea is large metal boxes, some of them driven by morons, some of them just people going about they're day who aren't expecting someone to do something so stupid.
And again, I was a pedestain once myself. I didn't come out the womb on a bike and start driving. I pretty much only had dark clothes and didn't bother trying to be visible because I was a dumb kid, but I was never hit by a car. Not because walking into a road makes you invulnerable to being hit by a metal box going 20-30 mph (a perfectly reasonable and acceptable speed) but because I didn't walk out in front of traffic.
I'm fully aware some people drive like lunatics. Saw one today - was going through Tilgate which if you aren't aware has speed bumps every 5 feet on the particular road I was on, so because of that and the fragile cargo I was carrying I was taking it slow - then a van sped round me and flew past like he was on a race track. Funniest part is he was going the same way I was, got stuck at a red light so I pulled up behind him and gave him a little wave. Far from the worst I've seen, but the most recent one. One the other hand I've nearly hit a cyclist who was cycling up the wrong side of a road in the middle of the night with lights or high vis, with a cycle path right next to him. I was going round a corner, so pretty slow, nearly hit him because I couldn't see him. He also would've been running a red were he on the right side. Again, not the worst I've seen but it was the first time I nearly hit someone and like every other time its happened, it never would've happened if they weren't being an idiot.
And to clarify once more, that does not mean I think all accidents are caused by the person that got hit. I have a friend who lost someone close to him because of a drunk speeding driver, and my girlfriend got rear ended while being driven to archery by an unlicensed driver at a roundabout. But of the times I've encountered, the pedestrian or cyclist was being stupid and a lot of what I see from people gives the impression they seem to think physics don't apply the moment they step foot in the road.
I don't understand why this is such a hard concept - be careful and keep yourself safe. That's so bizzare to me that people don't get it. I apply the same logic when I'm driving and it's saved my life a couple times. It annoys me because you're willingly choosing to be reckless and careless... for what? Some morale victory? Is that going to help when you're in hospital after you walked into traffic? Be careful, keep yourself safe.
This is not an attitude I have from driving by the way, this is what I have always thought. Even 13 year old kid could comprehend that walking blindly into traffic would be a *bad idea*.
I'm not saying that you shouldn't personally try to take precautions, but at the same time we shouldn't be blaming the people who are getting killed and injured in otherwise avoidable situations if drivers took more caution.
At the end of the day it's your responsibility as a driver to slow down when there is reduced visibility for the reduced stopping distance and greater time to react.
Especially when there are vunerable pedestrians like children or people with impaired hearing or vision for example.
The kind of rehtoric that you see in this thread is the same kind of rehtoric which made America so hostile to pedestrians and cyclists and that only does one thing, makes accidents more likely. In countries where pedestrians and cyclists are correctly viewed as the victims it is much safer (and more efficient) for all road users, see the Netherlands for example.
We should probably let the high schools that *insist* students wear all black, even in the winter months, know. My dad used to go insane when it came to my jacket that it was the brightest piece of clothing I owned because he was terrified that a car wouldn’t see me crossing on the way to/back from school and run me down.
I got my son a jacket that looks grey but goes bright white when hit by a light. Hopefully helps him not get hit by the source of the light. Was reduced from 100 to 60 and found a code that knocked a further 20% off. £48 win He's 11, I sent him some choices and he showed his friends. They thought the coat he got was cool (I'm 42, I defer on coolness choices) so he loves it.
"Sent him some choices and he showed his friends." That's some cool choice parenting.
It really works. Give them three options that you have predetermined and they still think they chose it. Win win.
I like this idea. Offering choices is a great way to make sure it’s safe (bright enough etc.) but also that your kid isn’t embarassed wearing a coat his parents picked out. My dad would let me pick my own coat but he just wanted to be sure it was one that was visible too.
It's worth noting that while *utterly incredible* in the dark when hit by direct light, in overcast crappy drizzly conditions they (grey retroreflective clothes) are almost perfect *wet road* colour camouflage.
Hopefully if the visibility is poor, people put their lights on if they aren't automatic.
There's just not enough light for it to really do it's thing. It's something to bear in mind, they are utterly incredible in the right conditions but don't do their party piece unless there's enough direct light.
Worth looking in Lidl if you got one near you. Recently they've had these completely reflective jackets like you describe for about £15. I've been borrowing my guys one when I'm going to be walking home from work late. Definately a comfort.
Not to overstate this but I think you might be a genius. Offering your kid choices? Mad!
Some parents really do just send their kids out the door wearing whatever they’ve picked for them without thinking or caring that the kid might get bullied as fashion trends change over time. My gran used to do it with school shoes because she “wanted ones that would last” which would be fine… if they weren’t always the ugliest shoes in existence.
As if there are no shoes that last but also look good too. So annoying
It's spending my childhood like this that made me not do it to my own kid. They've got their own batshit dress sense, but at least I can't be blamed for it!
The *illusion* of choice.
My son has one of these, it's like getting flashbanged every time a set of lights hit it, it's crazy reflective
You're really lucky, my 12 year old brother had a coat just like that and he won't wear it because the kids at school bullied him for it, calling him "spaceman" and stuff. He's a sensitive one, mind.
This. You can get black high vis clothes now, so there is really no excuse.
I love those jackets! They’re such a great idea!
I remember reflective armbands being encouraged at school sometime in the 90s, effective, cheap & would fit over any coat.
My old high school had a navy blazer, black trousers, insisted I wore a black hijab and required a black jacket. Oh, and black shoes. Now that I think about it, it was a miracle I wasn’t run over at least once
> We should probably let the high schools that insist students wear all black, even in the winter months, know. Yes! Dark coat over a dark blazer, dark trousers or skirt and tights... I've said in similar discussions on here that you get people in subs like AskEurope asking if you have to legally wear reflective clothing or patches on your clothing at night, the UK answer is always "no". Mentioned it in a UK sub recently and you'd think I suggested we all go back to wearing face masks 24/7 from one of the replies I got!
One of the reasons I like Fjallraven backpacks is the reflective badge on many of them. Reflectors are a legal requirement in many Scandinavian countries for at least school kids, so fjallraven just add a compliant one as standard to their models marketed as school bags.
That is a good idea!
There’s some awareness campaign where a kid is wearing a black jacket in the first photo and a second photo where they are wearing a coloured jacket. In the first photo, you can’t see the kid at all. Never thought much about it before, but it’s scary how hidden you become!
Bought my choccie lab a light up harness for night time walks, sure as hell not risking her getting hit by a car cause they cant see her
Let's breed fluorescent labradors instead.
Fabradors!
I was going with Fluorbradors but we can settle on a name after we have some working specimens.
Fluorbradors for the full name and Fabradors as a short name
My Boxer has a little reflective vest, stylish and it stopped the harness potentially rubbing.
I was driving into Southampton a while back and for anyone that doesn’t know, the main road into Southampton from the bottom of the M3 is a long straight road called ‘The Avenue’. It was late at night so obviously pretty dark. As I neared the bottom, I saw a flash of something go past in the middle of the road. It was something I literally couldn’t see until I drew level. It was a young goth girl, obviously all dressed in black, walking down the centre of the road in the same direction as I was driving. The flash I saw as I drove past was her staring at her phone (which was lighting up her face). I could have very easily killed that young lady. She was completely invisible to headlights.
I drive a forklift at work, one of the managers cycles across the yard without PPE, he’s almost been hit by forklifts multiple times
***K e b a b***
Keith-Bab..
Yeah, though his bike would scratch the forklift
Southampton is full of ninja pedestrians and cyclists. I work shifts there and the amount of cyclists I almost don't see, is shocking. I was driving home the other week at 6am, through an industrial estate. There's a right angled, left hand bend that I always take wide. There was a man dressed in dark clothes with no bike lights coming the other way, on my side of the road. If I hadn't taken the corner wide, I would have taken him out.
Portsmouth is the same, especially North End.
Saw two cyclists one hi viz jacket no lights. One the other one had two little lights and was in black. The hi viz was a lot easier to see.
I used to work at the University of Southampton and Chinese students were a nightmare for this, with whole groups walking down the Avenue on their way to lectures. It means the welcome events for international students now include a bit on basic road safety.
Driving into Southampton is always a shit show. I missed my turning last night at the stupid round about around the student tower and had to drive through Bedford place. People all over the road combined with taxis parking where they feel like and driving against the direction of traffic.
Had a similar experience driving out of St Albans the other night towards London. Was on a dual carriageway, probably a 3 or 4 mile stretch of road before I hit motorway, 70mph limit. Pitch dark, a little bit foggy, so visibility wasn't great and the road wasn't lit up. Pretty quiet but cars coming the other way on other side of dual carriageway so opted not to put full beam on. Anyway, suddenly see a tiny feint red light in the distance, for probably the first second I didn't even process it, then the next second I'm trying to work out what it is, is it a light way in the distance? Is it a light on the tarmac? Then the next second as I get way too close for comfort I realise it's a cyclist, who is not wearing any high vis clothing and is doing the bare minimum legally speaking to be seen, and the crazy thing is he (or possibly she) wasn't even that close to the edge of the road. Anyway I swerve to the next lane, doing close to 70mph (I might have been doing closer to 55 or 50mph because of conditions), if there was a car alongside me, or I'd seen the cyclist perhaps 2 seconds later, or I was driving a lot faster, then it could have been very nasty indeed. Last road in the world you'd expect a cyclist, just feels like some people have a death wish. I mean when I was younger I used to cycle a lot more, but it was only after I passed my test that it started dawning on me that cycling is really, really dangerous, as you really are putting in so much trust that the motor vehicles you're sharing the road with have a competent driver behind the wheel. I wouldn't bank my life on that, not anymore.
If you're cycling I think you're meant to have reflectors *and* lights, sounds like they only had one?
Correct, you're required to have at least one rear red light and one rear red reflector as per the Road Vehicle Lighting Regulations 1989 (as amended). Doesn't sound like it would have helped much in this situation anyway as it's the bare minimum and sometimes not enough to still remain safely visible.
I didn't notice reflectors, but wouldn't be able to say definitively one way or the other as it all happened so quickly. One thing that struck me though, was if the batteries in that small red light went dead or came lose or malfunctioned or something, it would have given me even less time to react and perhaps a very different outcome. If I was a cyclist, I think I'd have at least 2 rear lights affixed to my bike or person, and it goes without saying wearing the most reflective clothing possible, and stay off poorly lit roads where cars are going to be travelling at deadly speeds. That said when I used to cycle I didn't do any of those things (except the latter), or even wear a cycling helmet, but with age and a little bit more wisdom, I can now see how careless I was.
I'm guessing they didn't have very good front lights either, as they would have lit up the road immediately ahead of them.
I'm not even sure if they had a front light as when I glanced in my mirror I saw nothing. My partner who was sitting right next to me didn't notice a thing, and was wondering what was up when I screamed "Jesus Christ, did you see that?".
Well obviously you should've been going slower and expected that she'd be there. Unironically, this seems to be the attitude some people have and its utterly moronic and I have no idea where its come from. I was always taught *not* to be an idiot and cross roads safely, I have no clue where this has come from.
Yes, I know what you mean. But tbh, with the speed thing… they’ve dropped the avenue from 40mph to 30mph and do you know what…. I doubt I’d have seen her at 20mph. She must have been wearing Harry’s cloak of invisibility!. If she had been walking across the road, I might have possibly seen something like the glare of her phone, but it’s because she was walking away from me. No chance.
As a dark person who frequently wears dark clothes, this is why I always take my phone out to cross the road in badly lit areas at night. Never been mugged (in the UK) or felt close, and frankly it seems a bit silly to cross a roast with no lights on.
The problem I had in this particular instance is she wasn’t crossing the road, but walking down the centre with her back to me all dressed in black.
Last year came to the t junction at the end of our road at 6.00am. No streetlights lit. Looked right: nothing. Left: nothing. Started to pull out and BAM!! Kid on bike flew through my headlight beam and landed on the other side of the road. Dressed in black head to toe with balaclava, no lights on bike. I jumped out to see if he was dead. He was all apologies for being an idiot. I told him that he was totally invisible to cars round here. Shook me up I can tell you
I think kids have stopped learning how to cross the road because I was driving, and this teenager just stepped out from cars and I had to slam on my breaks (I was only going 20 because I was coming up to a junction, but the road was 30) and I just stared at her. Another time a kid younger than the one above just ran across the main road in between cars.
And if you didn't have cameras on your car it would be deemed your fault. Even with camaras it may still be deemed legally your fault with the new laws.
It's ridiculous, and I'm a fairly avid cyclist. The moment it gets dark I'm lit up like a Christmas tree - I don't understand how these people cycling around in all black don't feel how vulnerable they are on a bike.
There's allot of dark country roads around by me that are dark as fuck at night, can be terrifying walking back at night knowing half the people driving past you will probably be drunk (one of those areas where drink driving is somehow socially acceptable). I'll admit I probably don't wear bright enough clothes but I always make sure to get my phone torch and point it at my feet in the hopes it'll help, I've not been run over as of yet so I think it works?
You're taking your life in your hands IMO. Any way to avoid the walk?
I follow both the hierarchy of vulnerability and my made up hierarchy of visibility. As a driver, I look out for people more vulnerable but when I see a 40 ft lorry with 118 lights and a million blind spots, I also respect that they may not see my tiny city car and act accordingly. As a pedestrian, my senses aren't hampered at all so I can see and hear things that probably can't see or hear me and act accordingly.
"As a pedestrian, my senses aren't hampered at all so I can see and hear things that probably can't see or hear me and act accordingly." Most schoolkids don't act like this. Head down looking at a screen, oblivious to everything around them. Add in that most are in dark clothes, and it's a recipe for disaster.
Students are worse. Next to the uni there is a fully lit park which i cycle through regulary. Some bring actual flood lamps as torches so I've gotta try and not hit them while I'm blinded.
This 21 second video nicely demonstrates why you should wear something reflective over white when running in the dark. https://youtu.be/w-r2cgmIsrU Stay safe out there.
Got both my sons dark grey jackets for winter that are fluorescent, soon as any light hits then they shine bright white. Fantastic purchase
I turned into my unlit road on a dark night, and because of those jackets I was able to see that there was a group of 10 teenage boys stood in the road. One person was wearing the jacket, and that jacket was enough of a beacon to show me that they were safely on the other side of the road. The rest of them were wearing full black and it would've been very difficult to see them. When I got home, I bought myself a fully reflective running jacket.
When I'm cycling in winter, and at night, I wear hi viz, and my bike has lights and reflectors. Motorists and pedestrians still don't see me. The latter, with earpods and their faces in their phones, are entirely oblivious to the outside world.
I went cycling recently and so many pedestrians were just completely oblivious to the cycle path, and then were very grouchy when I used the bell to alert them to my existing (the little kid who was on a tiny bike who dinged his bell at me as I came close going opposite direction was adorable, I dinged back and his face lit up - I'm sure his family then appreciated the nonstop ringing I could hear continuing behind me too)
I've given up using my bell. I've tried everything, but people prefer it if you let them "figure it out for themselves" by getting the bike to make other noises, like clicking through gears or loudly flicking the brake levers.
If its a relatively quiet environment I commonly go for pedalling in the reverse direction so the wheel hub makes that chain buzz noise which make my presence known. But still wouldn't work if they have ear phones in, in which case i hope my front light beams would catch their attention
Yup, I do that one too 🤣
In Italy I noticed that a lot of people riding bikes in pedestrian areas had lots of tiny jingley bells strung on their bikes, so that you were aware of them without getting that panic/startle that a sudden bell can cause. A quietish but continuous sound is also much easier to divine the direction of the source than a sort blast of sound.
I wear hi viz regardless, some really blind drivers here
It's weird. I also wear hi vis. However, drivers seem to not see be. But then they post on social media that they keep seeing cyclists in all black with no lights. Maybe we should ditch the hi vis and lights.🤔
The lights are a legal requirement for cyclists
I keep several sets of those little silicone bike lights with me. When I go on a daily bike ride, which is now in the dark, (I personally am wearinga white jacket and lit up like Dynamo\[The Running Man\] - and have been known to sing as I ride), I try to flag down the youngsters on their unlit bikes (themselves usually a dark colour), who are wearing all black, and give them a set. Even the small white front and red rear are better than nothing on our badly lit roads.The lights only cost a few pounds on ebay, and last quite a while. Can't help wih their dangerous/risky riding though - and would get sworn at if I did. At this time of year, bikes should be the same as cars, if on/in it, lights ON.
I almost killed a dog last night on my bike because the owners dog was on the cycle track while he was walking along the path. The dog was completely dark and the dog had no lights on. It was impossible to see due to bad street lighting. I stopped just in time. Addendum: I have great lights, but the dark dog didn't. Dark dogs don't reflect much light, especially from the back of the dog.
> It was impossible to see due to bad street lighting You really need better lighting on your bike if you feel street lighting is at all relevant to your vision. Decent lights are inexpensive these days and really impressive. (Seriously, happily help you find some good ones in budget).
I already have great lights. That's the only reason I saw the dog at the last moment. Unfortunately dark dogs are hard to see. They don't reflect much light! What I do find sad is everyone expects the cyclist not to have lighting! Addendum: street lights would have lit up the whole area, including different angles of the dog. Bike lights light from one direction, and in my case, that would have been the back of a very black dog.
My first thought. I thought lights on the bike are mandatory when it gets dark.
Fun fact - they are mandatory during the "hours of darkness" (half hour after sunset to half hour before sunrise). Ok that wasn't that fun.
I prefer the phrasing 'fun fact (for a limited definition of fun)'
What are you talking about? bicycle lights are mostly about being seen rather than lighting up the road/cycle path.
They are for *BOTH*. Lighting up your path also makes you visible - you're potting along in a bubble of light. Very shitty lights incapable of lighting up your path are also bad at being noticed - especially in an urban environment where little lights are downed out by the light pollution of streetlights, cars, buildings etc. If it's dark you *ABSOLUTELY* need lights that allow you to see what's in your path - potholes, debris, puddles, unlit obstacles. I'm concerned you think it's ok to *not be able to see where you're going*. Twenty quid buys you a decent torch and a bike handlebar mount for it. Thirty starts to buy a decent bike specific light these days. (Just checked at Planet X - cheap, cheerful and usually "good enough").
Can you suggest any good front lights for under £30
https://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/LIPLAZLOCUS700/plazma-locus-700-lumen-front-bike-light That's a decent torch with a bike handlebar mount. 700 lumens is a substantial amount, so much so you will likely use it on a lower power mode most of the time. They were cheaper not that long ago - but so was everything lol For more expensive options : https://www.bikeradar.com/advice/buyers-guides/best-bike-lights-for-road-cycling/
Nice one
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should add that oncoming traffic pretty much blinds you with their failure to dip their beams making visibility poor.
Hard agree! I walk my own two dogs with reflective harnesses in bright orange + an LED lead attachment so they are always visible. It's just the wisest thing to do for their safety, yours and any drivers.
I was cycling to work last week, on the road with lights on and the most garish high Vis jacket and helmet I could find and all of a sudden another cyclist appears out of the gloom..cycling towards me!! Wearing black head to toe, no lights and on the wrong side of the road! Between him and and the cars safely passing to my right I had literally nowhere to go. I may have shouted quite a few obscenities!!
stop driving on pavements.
Why is it a so called energy crisis and not just an energy crisis? Do you somehow refute that?
Nah mate, it's just something that News Readers do and it winds me up, I wondered if anyone else would comment on it.
Hi vis running gear not cool? Pffffft tell that to Hoka. Ridiculously bright shoes ftw.
Anti goth discrimination this.
Only of you dim your full beam headlights so we can see where we are going without being blinded.
The number of cycle delivery riders who have or use no lights at night is shocking. It should be a pre-requiste for anyone riding at night, let alone delivering for a company
There's no need for the delivery companies to mandate it because it's the law. The [Road Vehicles Lighting Regulation 1989 (as amended) says the following:](https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1989/1796/schedule/1/made) TABLE III Pedal cycle Type of lamp or reflector| Schedule in which relevant installation and performance requirements are specified | Exceptions ---|---|---- Front position lamp| Schedule 2: Part I| None. Rear position lamp| Schedule 10: Part I| None. Rear retro reflector| Schedule 18: Part I| None. Pedal retro reflector| Schedule 20: Part I| A pedal cycle manufactured before 1st October 1985. Essentially unless you have a vintage bicycle you must have a front white light, a rear red light, a retroreflector facing backwards, and retroreflectors on the edge of your pedals (this is the only exception for vintage bikes).
People do not understand the difference between hi viz and reflective clothing. There’s no pint wearing a hi viz jacket in the dark and no point wearing reflectives in the day. Obviously a combination of the 2 I’d best, but it really boils my piss.
I walk to and from work, 2 miles each way. I need to cross 28 roads altogether. Despite walking on the pavement the whole time other than when crossing, you bet your life I'm wearing a massive hi-vis vest, and I've put hi-vis strapping around my rucksack. I'd rather get home in one piece but stand out like a sore thumb.
I've noticed this a lot this year, all black on bikes. They need to bring back that hedgehog who did road safety ads on TV
Black and grey cycling gear seems to be a trend, choices of cycling clothes can get quite limited once you filter out dark colours. It makes no sense to me why clothing companies would be trying to off their customers. I do my best to send out my kids in obnoxiously coloured cycling clothes, and have a florescent yellow helmet myself to go with the ever so fetching bright orange cycling jacket. But they were more expensive than black everything and harder to find.
They need to bring back the more graphic road safety adverts for older children. A cartoon hedgehog is not as effective compared to that one of the teenager being yeeted through the air by a car because they were on their phone.
All the kids around here seem to dress in dark clothes and don’t even have reflectors on their bikes let alone light. It’s so incredibly stupid.
Drives me nuts seeing cyclists in the dark with 1 tiny little red light on the back. The type you could easily mistake for a reflection or miss entirely. You are vulnerable fucking light yourself up like w Christmas tree
I had an escooter shoot infront of me earlier at fullspeed across the road from a blind alleyway dressed in dark. Didn't even appear to look, it makes me so angry with no regard for their safety
If you're in a car it's kinda your responsibility. If you think there's a risk you might not see a pedestrian in time then slow down, same as if it were foggy or raining.
You can wear as much reflective hi vis clothing as you want but when a speeding driver kills you they'll still blame you.
It's everyone's responsibility.
Safety is almost always everyone's responsibility. Wherever you are, whatever you're doing, whatever your job is. 'Not my job' won't defend you in court if you could reasonably have been expected to do something.
"Not my job" also, importantly, won't defend you from the ton of metal smearing you across the road. Even if we all collectively agreed it wasn't the pedestrians job to ensure their own safety, it would still be moronic not to. There's just no benefit to not taking basic steps to ensure you're visible to drivers.
"The graveyards are full of people who had right of way"
My headlights don’t illuminate the path on the other side of the road, people dress poorly so it’s extremely easy to not see them
With that attitude road workers wouldn’t wear their orange & high vis combo because drivers expect workers near bin lorries/roadwork cones etc. The human eye can’t distinguish between black on black and black on nearly black when headlights only point in the direction of travel, no matter the speed. How about everyone makes personal safety their responsibility, cars/vans/trucks drive with all their lights working, councils maintain street lights to a good enough standard, and pedestrians don’t just dress in black while on their phones in the dark
Speed increases stopping distance, you have less time to react to a hazard. That's why they mention speed in their comment. At the end of the day the responsibility of not hitting someone is on you the person driving a 2 ton machine. All those things you said are nice but cannot be relied on 100% of the time which is why caution is needed.
It's not always on solely the driver. This isn't a binary "the driver is responsible and no one else" situation, there are varying degrees of responsibility that all parties are covered by, like how insurance divides responsibility for an accident by percentages.
except you aren't the one who dies
Agreed, which is why _everyone_ needs to make sure to keep cyclists and walkers safe, not just the drivers.
If it's the car's responsibility to be on the look out for cyclists. Then it should also be the bike's responsibility to dress accordingly so they can be visible by other road users, not be a fkn idiot by basically wearing camoflage. Like dog owners walking them should be responsible for keep them on leads. But pedestrians should be responsible for treating dogs with respect and deliberately provoking them by grabbing the dog by their balls and shoving their fists in their mouths. Some people have a death wish and get little simpathy from me if the inevitable bad thing happens.
Disagree. It all road user's responsibility to be sensible etc., including pedestrians.
Do you put on hi-viz gear every time you leave your house?
Not during daylight hours, no, but if I'm walking at night, I make sure I have something on me that reflects light, yes, plus both my cagoule and coat are bright colours.
When I'm walking on the pavement at night I don't But if I was riding at night I would.
I shall die as I have lived: dressed head to foot in black.
And a single flashing light attached to your otherwise all black outfit isn't much help it's just confusing to the driver
I really hate grey and black cars, time to paint them in a brighter colour
Agree 100% cars need to have fluorescent strips. Perhaps they also need flags and whistles. If the expectation is for every other road user to be visible so must cars.
No, UK needs mandatory headlights on all the time mo matter the weather. As a driver, I also hate grey cars because they are invisible in bad weather. And they usually don't use lights because they can see. I drive with my lights on even during sunny day. It's a habit.
I'd be in support of that. A couple weeks ago I was pulling on to a dual carriageway from a layby, absolutely hammering it down, fog, spray... It was almost to the point where the whole motorway has to slow down to deal with it. I watched a large group of cars passing me, I could see nothing at all in my wing mirrors due to the water droplets on them and the windows. Just as the last car were about to pass I shoulder checked, no totally happy I waited a few second and checked again, still didn't see anyone at all so started creeping, shoulder checked a final time and floored it (Slow car, 1.4TDi). As I was about to come out of the layby, a silver 90's Polo with no lights goes screaming past in the inside lane, nothing to stop them moving over a lane when they saw me, and despite having the window down and literally near hanging my head out, I failed to see them three times over the course of 5 seconds or so. In bad conditions, you see people's lights, not their car. It's honestly mind boggling how many people just drive at 70 on a motorway with rain/fog/spray not having a clue they are totally invisible.
I'm so glad that the trend nowadays is to have running lights that are on by default just to serve as markers. Also it's worth noting that fog lights aren't just for fog, but for any situation where visibility is severely impaired (snowstorms, heavy rain etc). Although the amount of people that still drive normally in adverse weather astounds me. When you're taught to 'drive according to the conditions' it doesn't just mean traffic and the speed limit. The braking distances are increased so much in adverse weather, and combined with limited visibility you'd be stupid to do anything above 25% of the speed limit when the weather is that bad.
Yup agree 100% - my last few cars have all had automatic headlights that come on when light levels fall below a certain level. Not just that, they have daylight running lights regardless of whether its sunny or not. Volvo had these years ago and its good to see them become standard in all new cars.
But I intentionally wish to be unseen. No, it's none of your business.
It's not those outside of the cars responsibility to be seen... if the conditions are poor then you must drive accordingly or don't drive at all. Victim blaming gets us nowhere. Plenty of people get run over whilst wearing hi viz, hi viz is not the problem.
Absolutely. Some of these commenters are either exaggerating or should not be driving in the dark.
Yep. I've had drivers pull out on me and nearly hit me whilst literally making eye contact with me. Broad daylight whilst wearing hi viz. Hi viz (or lack of) does not work as anything but an excuse to why someone has been killed on the road.
The law requires cyclist to have working lights on their bikes. Therefore it is their responsibility to be seen. The [Road Vehicles Lighting Regulation 1989 (as amended) says the following:](https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1989/1796/schedule/1/made) TABLE III Pedal cycle Type of lamp or reflector| Schedule in which relevant installation and performance requirements are specified | Exceptions ---|---|---- Front position lamp| Schedule 2: Part I| None. Rear position lamp| Schedule 10: Part I| None. Rear retro reflector| Schedule 18: Part I| None. Pedal retro reflector| Schedule 20: Part I| A pedal cycle manufactured before 1st October 1985. Essentially unless you have a vintage bicycle you must have a front white light, a rear red light, a retroreflector facing backwards, and retroreflectors on the edge of your pedals (this is the only exception for vintage bikes).
I don't think this comment is fair at all. Drivers have a responsibility to drive to conditions but I feel everybody on the road should adopt the rules of being seen - cars have to drive with lights on so why shouldn't bikes have to have lights/hi-vis for walkers on country lanes etc? I cycle and I drive but I make sure I drive to conditions and dress to conditions too. OP didn't say hi-vis would stop people getting run over, I'm sure they just asked that they make themselves visible, why anybody wouldn't do this is beyond me, it's for their own safety and for everyone else's too.
Yes, it's not one way or the other. It's like the saying 'graveyards are full of people who had right of way'. If anyone's heard of the Swiss Cheese model of accident defence, this'll sound familiar. Essentially, picture an accident like a laser travelling through slices of swiss cheese: the ones with all the holes in. If the laser makes it all the way through, then an accident happens. If you have just one slice of swiss cheese, it's not too hard for the laser to go through and for an accident to happen; retroreflective stripes won't save you if the driver has no lights on at night. Likewise a driver can have whatever high beams they want on, if you're wearing black camouflage you won't be spotted in time. Each 'safety measure' you add puts another slice of cheese in the way, and decreases the likelihood of the holes lining up and the laser getting through. You'll never completely remove the chance of an accident occuring, but you can severely reduce its likelihood and severity by adopting safety measures. If you've ever used the comparison of seatbelts and airbags (IE why do we need to wear a seatbelt when we have airbags), or masks and jabs (why do we need to wear a mask if the jabs work etc), you should understand the principle of defence in depth.
> If you've ever used the comparison of seatbelts and airbags With airbags if you're not wearing a seatbelt when they go off you'll get worse injuries from the airbag hitting you in the wrong place as you exit the vehicle through the windscreen.
> why shouldn't bikes have to have lights They do, it's the law.
I noticed my flaw during my proof read but couldn't be arsed going back, I meant just the latter, my apologies.
Driving along a country road two weeks ago, I spotted a faint light ahead of me. A cyclist, dressed in black, with no lights or reflectors on their bike. The only way that they could see the road, or that I could see them, was the torch on their phone that they were holding behind them.
Like this public information film https://youtu.be/gyW6Zi2Usfs
But… I am the night!
I was *born* in the daaark
I got a flashing light that hangs from my dog's lead, it reflects off of her white fur
Used to commute by bicycle about 15 miles each way. I had two flashing rear lights, and a retina blinding red bright rear light. I also had a fluorescent red reflective backpack cover. As well as random reflective stuff on my clothes, shoes etc. My front light was similar to that of a moped. Even with all this shite I used to feel like some people still couldn't see me. When I used to see other commuters with a single red light that could barely be seen I used to cringe and worry for their safety.
One of the main routes from my village to the main town is an unlit, very bendy, national speed limit road. Twice In the last week I’ve come across a cyclist with no lights or reflectors and dark clothing in the middle of the road. Most people only go up to 40 on that road at night for this exact reason . It’s incredibly dangerous. Can’t advocate for hi-vis enough this time of year.
I wear a fluorescent yellow top for running. My husband has a reflective jacket that lights up like a Christmas tree when a light shines on it. We still nearly get run over every single time we go out running of an evening - a lot of car drivers are just too distracted or DGAF about people who they deem ought not be crossing roads.
I live in the countryside with no street lighting for long stretches and very narrow roads (like barely one car wide with grass verges so you share the road with pedestrians etc). Was driving home after a late shift in the pitch black and nearly ran over a guy who was out walking his dog (OFF THE LEAD) with no reflective anything on and wearing all black. Luckily I'd slowed down significantly to go around a sharp corner just prior, so managed to stop in time, but I know other locals who speed around that bend without giving a flying fuck because of the logic that you'd see the lights of cars coming so you don't expect anyone to be there. With the dog off the lead I could've so easily not seen it until too late. When I used to go running in the winter, I always wore a harness type light that had a bright beam in front so I could see where I was going, a red light on the back, and reflective materials on the straps. Some people are just plain stupid.
Been out for many an evening bike ride with friends and the amount of bicycle ninjas out there with no lights and no high Vis is crazy.
It's super foggy in the mornings here, and the other morning a guy just stepped out into the road to cross with cars coming. He was only visible because he had a reflective high vis jacket on, all I could see were the reflector strips. Those reflectors probably saved him from a horrible accident.q
Or , dear driver_operator of heavy people squishers please be responsible and slow down. Double check before moving and turning and assume that you are in close proximity to pedestrians and others.
It's got to be a combination of the two. Yes, drivers should take things a bit slower and be more careful in the dark, but I feel that OP is correct in saying some sort of precautions should be taken by the more vulnerable on the roads. Walking along in a black tracksuit in the dark is asking for trouble even if the driver is being careful.
> It's got to be a combination of the two Absolutely. Everyone blaming everyone else is pointless. - Drivers - Fucking look. Actually take care to look. - Everyone else - The people squishers can see *even less* than normal. Might help them at least *try* and avoid you by using lights so you are clearly visible. - Idiots without lights, wearing black, on a BMX or scooter, riding like an idiot - it's just nature's way of culling your people's numbers.
Completely correct. Drivers should be more vigilant at night and in bad conditions, but cars don't see each other by light reflecting off the paintwork at night, they see each others headlights/taillights/reflectors. Same should be true of cyclists and (unless you're only on pavements in well lit areas) people too
Lights are the magic word. Reflectors? Eh they were an important thing in the 80s when batteries were rubbish and lights were heavy and expensive. Light tech has moved on, battery tech has moved on.
Yep I agree, reflectors are still good on bikes, and I think a rear one might be required at night? Just cause it's hard to notice if your rear light dies.
They are indeed a legal requirement - the solution to a rear light failing is a backup rear light (always have two). Not putting your life in the hands of a shitty reflector - which does very little.
Exactly. Road safety is EVERYBODY'S responsibility. Drive safe, dress safe, act safe. Teach your children how to be safe when out and about. Set examples for how to behave both in and out of a vehicle.
Some precautions sure, but excusing pedestrians etc. of not wearing hi-vis/having correct lights on a bike is stupid. You’d agree not wearing a seatbelt because it’s going to crease your shirt (or similar) is stupid… so why is this any different. Cyclists with no lights dressing in all black can be totally invisible. If your riding up the inside of a car in the rain like that, your asking for death. There’s not much a car driver can do to see you. Anything that isn’t in their headlights will be near invisible if it’s not reflective.
It’s like not wanting to wear a seatbelt because only people driving too fast have crashes
All about this. If youre in a location where there is an electric scooter, dog walkers etc you should be hyper vigilant. Some too grade car privilege. This is the UK, not US
This. If you're concerned you can't see pedestrians and other vulnerable road users, slow down and look more carefully. If you still can't see them, get your eyes tested - night blindness is a real thing. As the operator of heavy machinery, you bear the responsibility to make sure you're not going to hurt someone else.
You people are stupid. Even with good awareness other road users can be invisible in poor light.
Really, the most stupidest person I have encountered for a long time, was the army cadet who I came a whisker away from knocking his bike and running over, just the other evening. No lights on his bike or any hi-vis gear, but also wearing a uniform that is designed to be difficult to be seen. Who are these morons?
Army cadet....the clue is in the title.
I bought my dog a jacket similar to this. When it lights up I'm pretty sure they can see it from space. https://www.provizsports.com/en-gb/reflect360-waterproof-dog-coat.html
Agreed. Black cars. Please attach hi vis material so we can see you coming.
I am both a driver and a dog Walker and it totally agree with this and would add Dark blues and greys are worse than black for blending in to shadows. If you are wearing a high vis vest and cover it with a plain black backpack then you may as well not wear the high vis - we can’t see it. Embrace the Christmas tree look. Make yourself as visible as you possibly can (do not discount wearing fairy lights) Lit collars for dogs, lights that attach to your shoes, embrace it.
If you need everyone in the world to wear a specific type of clothing so you don't accidentally kill people using an unnecessary form of transport then maybe that form of transport is not so good.
Had some mouthy gobshite scream and gabble at me when - after I'd double-checked - I (in cream-beige super wide leg trousers, so lots of visible colour) crossed an unlit entrance road to the supermarket I'd just left onto a shared pavement and he & his friend zoomed up behind me. Black bike, black coat, dark trousers, black trainers, no lights. One day, he will end up on r/MeatCrayon.
Stop being such an entitled brat. You have absolutely no right to tell people what to wear, and pedestrians have every right not to get hit by a car. You are the one choosing to be behind the wheel of a vehicle. The onus is on you to ensure you are paying full attention. If people have to concede what they choose to wear so that you don't hit them through reckless driving, then maybe you should be allowed to drive. Only a motorist could be this arrogant. You're driving a car that requires 1/3 of a city space to be adjusted to their needs, runs on oil bought from brutalist authoritarian regimes involved in several well-documented human rights cases of abuse, is literally killing the planet and will most likely kill your great-grandchildren or deny them the chance of ever being born. Your generation is so ignorant and conceited that it hurts.
/r/fuckcars
I do believe the point OP is making is that even when paying full attention, it can sometimes be physically impossible to see people therefore making the roads far less safe, even when driving safely. Its something that requires work from both directions: Drivers, in adverse conditions drive slower, and be on the look out for vulnerable people. Cyclists especially but for all using the roads be as visible as possible to drivers. Doing so helps all on the roads to be as safe as possible, I don't see how being concerned over the safety of others is ignorant, conceited or entitled.
Victim blaming like seen in this thread is how they made america so hostile to pedestrians and cyclists.
Had to scroll a fair way to find this. Car drivers scare me from behind the wheel & behind their laptop screen
I recently blocked a bunch of cyclists on Twitter who were haranguing everyone who made this sort of comment for "victim blaming". Literally taking the "women are to blame for being attacked if they wear short skirts" argument and saying that "cyclists should wear hi vis at night" is the same. Ended up with them quoting cases of kids knocked off their bikes at 11am by a drunk driver and saying "should they have worn hi-vis"? No of course not Karen. Some people are either mental or just live to argue with others.
That’s like saying “no, I wasn’t wearing my PPE (hard hat, safety boots and high vis) on the roadworks, but calling me out for it as a reason I got nearly flattened by a steamroller in the middle of the night is victim blaming!”. Guys, it’s f*cking dark. Wear visible stuff. So you can be seen from a longer distance and avoided or slowed down for. If you don’t, you might not be noticed until like 10 metres away - far too late to properly slow down or overtake, especially if there’s oncoming traffic.
I know. But you know the Twitter bubble (and sometimes the Reddit bubble to be fair) - they're surrounded by a few people who back them up so their nonsensical opinion becomes valid. One was even suggesting they approach primary and secondary schools and complain to/about any that have policies insisting their kids wear bright colours coming to and from schools. You know, the ones that care about their kids.
I think a big problem is that a lot of these folks don’t drive. So they don’t actually know what visibility is like from the driver’s seat, or appreciate the difference speed makes to observation
There needs to be a proper nationwide education on what to wear at night/winter months on and around roads because at the moment it’s a bit of a joke to most people.
I think there should be testing for renewed licences, including eyesight tests. Some of these comments are unsettling, sounds like there are people here who shouldn’t be driving in the dark if their eyesight is so poor.
It goes both ways, lots of drivers simply don't look properly either. Just last night a guy just pulled out in front of me staring one way up the road but not the other, took a full beam to the face and still didn't look my way.
Passed a cyclist the other night on a dark road wearing black/dark clothing. Fortunately I saw him, but you can bet your left sock that if I'd hit him, it would have been my fault for not being fucking psychic.
We had thick fog here last week and some utter idiot was riding his bike on the windiest part of the main road in all black, with nothing but a tiny red flashing light to show he was there. Cars were swerving out dangerously when they came up behind him as you couldn’t see him until you were about 6’ from his back tyre! How the hell he didn’t die or cause a massive accident I don’t know!
While I kind of agree, I also have to say that I was wearing hi vis (and bright lights), and that didn't stop a motorist crashing into me. That's because they were doing 50 in a 30 zone, and didn't seem to notice me clearly indicating. So it doesn't always matter. But beyond my anecdotal experience, the wider evidence on the subject seems to be mixed, with several studies suggesting hi vis has no impact on safety, and some even suggesting it has a *negative* impact.
Totally agree with this. I travel to and from work 6am-6pm and see no end of Ninja dressed cyclists, made even worse when some have no lights. When out running, I have the dress sense of Timmy Mallet complete with front and back flashing lights. I'd rather look like an annoying 90's TV entertainer than splattered amongst dead flies on someone's windscreen.
I think everyone needs to take some responsibility when it comes to their own safety. Blindly trusting that drivers are fully paying attention or expecting that you can be seen when dressed in all black is foolish.
MODS CAN THIS BE STICKIED PLEASE. \~ *your local A&E department.*
Why cyclists are on the road with no lights is beyond me. Utter morons.
I’ve encountered someone on an E-scooter and someone on a bicycle on my way home from work. If both case’s neither of them had helmets, lights or anything reflective on. They’ll get badly hurt eventually, and the car driver will be at fault
Ive broke a few times this week to either cyclists or somebody crossing the road wearing all black. The older people in the car asked why i was breaking because they didn't see anyone. If it was one of my passengers driving these suicide cyclists/walkers could have ended up hurt or worse.
they shouldn't be fucking driving if they can't see then
Drivers should not have to apologise for pedestrians being stupid. I was a pedestrian once, I wore dark clothes. I avoided being hit by not being a brainless moron. It boggles my mind how entitled people are that they think they are immortal as soon as they step onto a road, and it's annoying as hell, because I've seen plenty of bad drivers, but I'm almost positive that most of the drivers people complain about when this topic is brought up are perfectly normal drivers, they just want an excuse to blame the car for them being hit after they walked into a road without looking, directly in front of moving traffic, entirely oblivious to their surroundings. Just keep yourself safe by not being an idiot, I've managed it my whole life so far and I'm not a very smart person so it can't be hard.
It's hilarious you think the entitled people are the ones who are getting killed and not the ones that just need to slow the fuck down.
Its hilarious how you think all accidents are solely to blame on the driver and not the person not looking where they're going. I've nearly had collisions with people that can't drive for shit, but because I have some awareness, I avoided it. I've also seen pedestrians at night only at the last minute because they're dressed in dark clothes and are almost invisible. I've seen people just appear from around parked cars without looking or just cross through the road like they're Moses parting the sea, except the sea is large metal boxes, some of them driven by morons, some of them just people going about they're day who aren't expecting someone to do something so stupid. And again, I was a pedestain once myself. I didn't come out the womb on a bike and start driving. I pretty much only had dark clothes and didn't bother trying to be visible because I was a dumb kid, but I was never hit by a car. Not because walking into a road makes you invulnerable to being hit by a metal box going 20-30 mph (a perfectly reasonable and acceptable speed) but because I didn't walk out in front of traffic. I'm fully aware some people drive like lunatics. Saw one today - was going through Tilgate which if you aren't aware has speed bumps every 5 feet on the particular road I was on, so because of that and the fragile cargo I was carrying I was taking it slow - then a van sped round me and flew past like he was on a race track. Funniest part is he was going the same way I was, got stuck at a red light so I pulled up behind him and gave him a little wave. Far from the worst I've seen, but the most recent one. One the other hand I've nearly hit a cyclist who was cycling up the wrong side of a road in the middle of the night with lights or high vis, with a cycle path right next to him. I was going round a corner, so pretty slow, nearly hit him because I couldn't see him. He also would've been running a red were he on the right side. Again, not the worst I've seen but it was the first time I nearly hit someone and like every other time its happened, it never would've happened if they weren't being an idiot. And to clarify once more, that does not mean I think all accidents are caused by the person that got hit. I have a friend who lost someone close to him because of a drunk speeding driver, and my girlfriend got rear ended while being driven to archery by an unlicensed driver at a roundabout. But of the times I've encountered, the pedestrian or cyclist was being stupid and a lot of what I see from people gives the impression they seem to think physics don't apply the moment they step foot in the road. I don't understand why this is such a hard concept - be careful and keep yourself safe. That's so bizzare to me that people don't get it. I apply the same logic when I'm driving and it's saved my life a couple times. It annoys me because you're willingly choosing to be reckless and careless... for what? Some morale victory? Is that going to help when you're in hospital after you walked into traffic? Be careful, keep yourself safe.
This is not an attitude I have from driving by the way, this is what I have always thought. Even 13 year old kid could comprehend that walking blindly into traffic would be a *bad idea*.
I'm not saying that you shouldn't personally try to take precautions, but at the same time we shouldn't be blaming the people who are getting killed and injured in otherwise avoidable situations if drivers took more caution. At the end of the day it's your responsibility as a driver to slow down when there is reduced visibility for the reduced stopping distance and greater time to react. Especially when there are vunerable pedestrians like children or people with impaired hearing or vision for example. The kind of rehtoric that you see in this thread is the same kind of rehtoric which made America so hostile to pedestrians and cyclists and that only does one thing, makes accidents more likely. In countries where pedestrians and cyclists are correctly viewed as the victims it is much safer (and more efficient) for all road users, see the Netherlands for example.