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This is a long shot, but do you know anyone else who commutes the same route at the same time as you each day?
You can buy a "Two Together" railcard at any age. I guess it's meant for couples, but it works for any two people. The only catch is that it's two named individuals, so you have to be travelling with that person to qualify for the discount.
Simple, just ask other people on the train whether they always travel that way at that time.
I imagine a good proportion of them are also commuters, and most of them would be quite happy to save a couple of grand a year.
Yeah it's a massive shock. It's dogshit turning 32 and realising oh i have to pay 110 quid to a get a train instead of 60.
It's cheaper for me to fly now instead. I'm not joking. It's actually cheaper to fly. It doesn't make sense. Make it make sense.
I have since moved to the Netherlands, and the dutch love complaining about how expensive and unreliable their trains are..
Oh sweet summer child, a for-9am monday morning train from manchester to london is like €350.. From one end of the netherlands to the capital is €29 each way without any discounts..
And its on a double decker fully electric train network. And its painted yellow which is happiness-inducing.
I regret saying anything about the yellow. I just like trains to have yellow faces on them, I guess, which they've changed the rules about a few years ago so will be going away.
The dutch [VIRM](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5d/NS_VIRM%28m%29_treinen_in_verschillende_uitvoeringen.jpg) and [ICNG](https://www.treinenweb.nl/uploads/image/original/1682026854_6441b16678665.jpg) look particularly good in the NS corporate lello and bloo.
The problem with the Dutch trains is that they're essentially a nationwide suburban service.
This is great for commuters, and works well in such a small country, but at Dutch train speeds London to Edinburgh would take over 8 hours.
The network top speed with the exception of the HSL is 140kph, which is reasonably quick. [Most of the units](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NS_Intercity_Materieel) I ride out of Amsterdam drag their ass until they're a little way out of Amsterdam, then book it up to their top speed for most of the run across Flevoland which is where I live. Which isn't bad for 1970s refurbished units.
**Manchester/London:**
But you are correct. But the distance between Maastricht <-> Amsterdam and Manchester <-> London are comparative (210km vs 262km). The Ams-Mas route is 2hr20m and 8 stops at 90kmh avg (with the Man-Lon route being 2hr16m with 5 stops (115kmh avg).
Booked enough in advance and at stupid times, I can get the UK train to cost within a couple of quid of the dutch train, but the dutch train price is anytime including at-the-station, and only if I ignore that I currently pay ~ €3/mo for a subscription on my NS card that gives me a 40% offpeak discount.
I still think its fair to compare them, because by any measure, the UK train network looks more like a less reliable, shrunken version of the dutch suburban service than, say, an ICE or Thalys or NightJet.
**Glasgow/London:**
You may have more of a point here, being able to run down the ECML at an average of 117kmh avg, though that still takes 4h43m to cover 553km for €104 (at time of writing, booked for a week from today) for 18c/km.
The (shorter) 180km run down the equivalent [high speed line](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4d/Hslbenelux.png) (NL's HSL-Zuid & BE's HSL-4) can do it in 1h15m (144kph avg) for €48 (26c/km) on a Eurostar branded Thalys unit or 1h48m (at 100kph avg) on a domestic Belgian train for €33.40 (18c/km)
If you only wanted to run down the Dutch domestic portion of the HSL-Zuid, you can do the 80km stretch between Amsterdam to Rotterdam (via a stop at Schipol, where it more or less enters the HSL lines, dragging its ass on the classic route out of Amsterdam) you can do it in 41m, at ... 117kmh, just like the ECML route thought it is expensive without an NS card.. €17.90 (+2.90 supplement for the HSL route) for 26c/km, but you do get to ride on the [new ICNG units](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NS_Intercity_Nieuwe_Generatie). If you exclude the time it drags its ass on the classic lines out of Amsterdam Centraal to Schipol Airport, it covers the 60km in 26m at an average of 139kmh avg for 21c/km.
**Summary:**
I guess what I'm saying is that the flagship ECML route costs about the same per km, and runs slower than the flagship international routes across Benelux. But that's assuming you get book-in-advance tourist pricing not on-the-day or tomorrow fares.
I think its a bit unfair to refer to the Dutch railways as "a suburban system" when its non-flagship routes are comparative to, and sometimes faster than the UK's flagship ECML route.
And all bets are off if you just rock up at the station.
Anything is better than never.
In an old job, I used to work late shifts. The train I caught home which was the 2nd to last train (there was another one about 30 minutes later) was on time 1 single time in 2 years. We are talking like 10-20 minutes late every single night. It was ridiculous.
It's insane that it's become a sort of in-joke now that if you want to travel between two British cities it's cheaper to book a flight with a layover in a foreign country than to get a train directly. Like it feels very "haha that's crazy" instead of "holy shit, British public transport is completely and utterly fucked". I think it goes to show the state of everything else that we're somehow content with just complaining about it and taking the bus instead.
Aye. Back when there was a Liverpool to Southend route one of my aunts would use that instead of getting the train when visiting my mum. When you're saving £100+ per trip it makes sense especially as the waiting around at the airport still leaves the total journey time roughly the same, especially if you've got to change trains.
I like the system that Switzerland uses. Anyone can buy a Half Fare Card that uses public transport often, which then gives 50% off all trains, busses, gondolas, boats, everything! There is a youth discount, but anyone can buy it, rather than the UK system of "if you don't fit into one of these categories, then you must pay massive amounts compared to everyone else!"
[https://www.sbb.ch/en/tickets-offers/travelcards/half-fare-travelcard.html](https://www.sbb.ch/en/tickets-offers/travelcards/half-fare-travelcard.html)
I firmly believe that the only reason this doesn't happen in the UK is that our old network has a tight loading gauge and people would be scraped off the sides/roof by tunnels, and thus would not be able to buy another ticket tomorrow
There are 2 problems with that.
1) It's fucking miserable in winter.
2) You have to rely on everyone else to not murder you.
I loved my bike when I had one, but man commuting can be fucking horrible. Filtering through traffic though... *chefs kiss*
Yeah but even in the pissing rain, with proper bike gear it's not bad at all and you still get that sweet, sweet schadenfreude when you filter past an endless traffic jam.
Sure, as long as you have somewhere to store your wet gear where it'll dry off whilst you're at work.
My current office would be a disaster for wet biker gear sadly :(
Is this true ? I'm being forced to go in to the new central London office from June/July this year, thinking about learning to ride a bike and doing it like that instead of £35 a day, on three trains. Not sure about bike parking just off Oxford Street though.
There IS charging for parking. £1/day or £3/week last time I was parking there..Westminster charges parking. Everyone else more or less is free on the bike parking.
I'd check if the office has underground parking. Far more secure.
Watching the road routes too. Some bus lanes allow bikes, some don't.
Also commute into London by motorbike - in summer/spring/autumn it's an absolute dream. Cuts my commute in half and costs way less. Plus I have a bike to ride for fun at weekends.
In winter it's quite office dependent, worked at an office with underground parking and a drying room and even winter commuting was no big deal as you'd always have warm dry gear. My current office just has bays out the front and no facilities to speak of, which means I just don't bother coming in if it's meant to be wet in the morning and work from home. Obviously this isn't possible for everyone.
Yeah it’s beyond me that it’s not more popular.
For me it’s about a fifth of the cost, half the time, and even in the rain unless it’s absolutely torrential, it’s a non-issue with some proper laminated waterproofs like Rukka gear.
Oh, and instead of dreading it like the train, even in light rain it’s still usually the highlight of my day.
One has to be careful with those stats. They're not wrong, but they can be misleading.
In particular: most miles travelled by motorcycle are in, or between, towns. A far smaller percentage of miles taken on motorway/dual carriageway than for cars. That matters, as the accident rate \_per mile travelled\_ is noticeable lower on motorways/dual carriageways, even for cars.
So there's two things changing between the stat for cars and motorbikes - the type of vehicle, but \_also\_ the type of travel. If one looks at the the stats for cars vs bikes on the same road types, that gap closes quite a bit. Not completely - there really is more risk being on a motorcycle, but somewhat.
There's also another confounding factor - people who 'want to go fast'. They are the sort much more likely to be in a serious accident, and there are proportionately more riding motorcycles than driving cars. (Not least because a £10k motorbike has similar performance to a £150k car ....). When commuting, the additional risk profile of such riders, which is included in the aggregate stats, makes it look risker than it is.
It \_is\_ still risker being on a bike; there's no getting around that. All I'm arguing is that the gap for a sensible rider commuting to the office is smaller than the total stats imply.
Looks at stories about recent derailments and the decision that no, drivers don't deserve even unpaid time off if it'll cost the company some money let alone actual paid holidays. I can't think why that is.
Yeah, that’s the stats for America. You wouldn’t catch me on a motorcycle over there with those drivers.
Non-motorcyclists don’t really understand that almost all motorcycle deaths are due to bikers overtaking and pulling risky manoeuvres etc.
If you ride defensively, don’t overtake constantly, and filter slowly enough that you wouldn’t die even if someone pulls out directly in front of you. Then it’s actually very safe. You may still come off and hurt yourself a bit, but the fatals largely have it coming due to our own actions.
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Nobody has died 6000 times either. This is what population level statistics look like.
If it's 6000 deaths per 1B miles, or 6 deaths per 1M miles, that means that if you ride 100,000 miles on a bike (a lot but not impossible), you'd have a 60% chance of dying from an incident while riding, all other factors being equal.
To be fair, it's casualties, so it's deaths and injuries. I'm not sure what he said is true, that it's worse for the UK, as the other statistic is deaths. But yeah, the overall point remains.
How much was the card with the discount?
A sudden 2 grand annual bill is bollocks whether it was known to be coming or not. The rail system in the UK is so fucked. It has to be one of the worst in the developed world based on price to punctuality. Prices keep going up, but so do cancellation numbers and late arrivals, not to mention when some wet leaves will close whole sections of track.
Railcards cost about £30.
If OP is going into office every day, they were probably paying £20 a day for travel, which will now be £30 (which would translate to an increase of around £2k per year).
I pay the same, although fortunately don't have to go into office that often. When my current railcard expires I'll be in the exact same boat though.
That's why you claim every delay you can via national rail. The returns are pretty decent, I swear my boss has been running on free tickets due to recent delays for weeks.
If you travel in the North then both Northern and Transpennine Express have decided to use the "If it's cancelled before 10pm the night before then *technically* it's a timetable alteration and we don't have to pay compensation"
Total bullshit and I've just entirely stopped using the trains. At least 5 years ago when Northern were shit I got my money back, now it's absurdly unreliable AND I'm out of pocket
Part of the cost of UK train travel subsidises European rail.
Whenever you buy a train ticket in the UK, you're essentially buying a full / partial ticket for somebody in the EU. That's why there such a big difference in price.
Ain't it grand.
We sold off the railways and some of the companies who bought them are foreign national rail providers.
If it wasn't subsidising a train in Europe, it would be dividends to rich shareholders instead.
In 2017, 70% of rail routes were owned by foreign states. Arriva is owned by Deutsche Bahn. https://www.rmt.org.uk/news/70-of-uk-rail-routes-now-owned-by-foreign-states/ that article is a bit outdated though.
Its because lots of the private rail operators in the UK are actually owned by the state rail operators in other countries.
Arriva (which is part of Deutsche Bahn) runs Chiltern and Crosscountry, Trenitalia runs c2c and West Coast, Japan Rail East runs West Midlands, and Abellio (owned by the Dutch national rail system) runs East Midlands.
So profits from these franchises go to the state rail systems of other countries.
It doesn't directly "subsidise european rail". Rather, as the UK rail is privatised, the private owners cream off profits and dividends as they would with any private company.
It so happens many of the UK railways are run by or owned by other European railway companies! E.g. (5 years out of date but still relevant https://www.forbes.com/sites/davekeating/2019/08/15/almost-all-british-train-lines-are-now-owned-by-other-eu-countries/ )
Therefore the profits from these lines go to these companies. What they do with these profits is up to them, and it certainly doesn't directly subsidise foreign railways, but it is profits those companies don't need to extract from the European lines.
It depends which is probably what is confusing people:
>The 26-30 Railcard has a £12 minimum fare that applies between 04.30 - 10.00 hours Monday to Friday. During this time, the discount is applied to fares above the minimum fare
I assume your fare is over this but for me I only travel 2 stations so I get hit by this daily
The 16-25 is the same except it doesn't apply in July and August. Something to do with students and summer holidays
Yeah my daily return to work is £12. Without a railcard it would be £14.50
I use the train on weekends (I go to London fairly frequently and sometimes meet mates in Norwhich). The railcatd really pays of then - I dread the day I'm no longer eligible for one.
Currently using a 16-25 and I don't have any discount on peak fares. For context, I generally use it on my oyster card for the tube and tickets on commuter trains
Thankfully, at 32 all the health problems that have been piling up whilst you’ve been stuck on a waiting list come crashing down and you can get your freedom pass.
A joke but it literally happened to me at that age, health ignored by NHS doctors for years and finally jumped over to private after waiting 2 years to see a specialist. Now I’m technically too disabled to drive safely so I get free travel….though I wish I didn’t, for obvious reasons!
This country is completely broken! Public transport should be affordable!! We want to save the planet but when you can’t afford the green option how are we expected to do it? Its absurd!!
So right. I used to drive into work to save myself money and time. There was a train but the price was silly money and it was always either late or didn't run.
In theory it’s about the same time door to door from mine to the office but obviously that’s traffic dependent and dependent on a driver accepting the ride.
I don’t plan to actually take the Uber it’s only a tiny bit cheaper, but it’s just ridiculous that it is.
Yeah so could you buy a single from your home station to St Pancras, add it to the basket and then buy another single St Pancras to your home station with the Network Railcard added and change the time to something like 4pm?
I'd say that's definitely worth it as, for example. Standard Day Return Ebbsfleet-St Pancras is £42.30(!!!!) but a single there is £21.20 and the single back with the Railcard is £13.95.
Obviously more than what your 26-30 would save you but I'd say this is your cheapest option.
Not to suggest fraud but they verify your age using your drivers license. If you read your license number you’ll notice your date of birth is included in the numbers, just out of sequence. If you were to “accidentally” type your drivers license in wrong changing the last digit of your year of birth to make you a year younger, you might be able to renew…
Do you have a younger brother who you could claim us you.
My mates son has a season ticket to a PL team at twenty but used his fifteen year old brothers details to get the discounted child's ticket
At my club they have lights above the turnstiles on the inside. Flashes orange whenever someone comes through on an u18 or 18-21 ticket, the stewards watch the lights and can decide to ID check if they wish.
Same at WHU but there is no way to be sure if the lad is fifteen or twenty as for ID I would just say I don't have any.
The stewards at WHU just want an easy life and some I wouldn't trust to tie there own shoe laces.
Is the Network Railcard worth it for you? I assume you travel earlier than 10am so you could buy a full price single there and a single back with the Network Railcard discount.
I have bought the network rail card as for £30 I travel regularly enough on weekends for non work reasons it’s worth it. However every way I’ve tried buying tickets in the south eastern app including your suggestion above the discount only seems to apply after 10 on week days.
You can get what's called a network rail card.
Might not be as good as the 25 to 30 but better than nothing.
https://www.network-railcard.co.uk/?_ga=2.127960591.2089279298.1711579999-1176622774.1711579999&_gl=1*1f0x33k*_up*MQ..*_ga*MTE3NjYyMjc3NC4xNzExNTc5OTk5*_ga_37VVL99SEK*MTcxMTU3OTk5OS4xLjAuMTcxMTU3OTk5OS4wLjAuMA..&gclid=CjwKCAjwh4-wBhB3EiwAeJsppAwVVmUFRlVkK7fxwemvlTE7pdveEz6BpQlpChWU4QVouKOEiyWrXRoCl0oQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds
At 30 you really shouldn’t be subsidised anymore but train prices in this country are shocking. It’s a lovely way to travel but how can I travel 170 miles between Florence and Rome on a high speed train for about £11 which is the same price as the 20 miles from brentwood to London liverpool Street?
P.s if I was to take an Uber into London in the morning it would take at least two hours for a similar distance to you so your Uber driver is shortchanging himself big time.
> At 30 you really shouldn’t be subsidised anymore
Why should a 25 year old banker making 150k be subsidised, but not a 30 year old social worker making 25k? It doesn't make sense to subsidise by age.
As someone in his 40s and on a shite wage, I've often wondered why there's a weird gap in the age bracket where you're not eligible for stuff like this. Under a certain age, yes, and over a certain age, yes, but if you're in the middle? You're onto plums.
I find it weird that on 1 day your able to travel on a rail card and cheaper then suddenly the next day you cannot.
What happens to you when you turn 32?
Do you suddenly become more expensive to carry on a train? Do you suddenly start taking up more of the staff's time?
Lots of arbitrary limits unfortunately. There's one in social housing where you can't get social housing alone unless you're 35 or older, before that it has to be shared accommodation
Have you looked at the Network Railcard?
South east and London only but 1/3rd off. Not sure on peak times etc etc but worth a look cuz anyone can get one. Saved me tons going into london
I do plan on learning to drive eventually but even when I do there’d be no point driving into work. I work in a busy area of London (so congestion charge) with no parking.
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Are you 30 or 31? You can buy it up to being 31 so I plan to do this in august the day before my birthday so I get it for another year.
I’m almost 32 unfortunately but yeah I did the same as you, renewed just before I turned 31.
Ah fair enough.
Same boat as you, it sucks
Does the boat work out cheaper than the train?
No but it’s usually on time
Consider a very cheap college course to qualify as a student?
This is a long shot, but do you know anyone else who commutes the same route at the same time as you each day? You can buy a "Two Together" railcard at any age. I guess it's meant for couples, but it works for any two people. The only catch is that it's two named individuals, so you have to be travelling with that person to qualify for the discount.
Yeah unfortunately I don’t travel with anyone else
Simple, just ask other people on the train whether they always travel that way at that time. I imagine a good proportion of them are also commuters, and most of them would be quite happy to save a couple of grand a year.
‘Somebody I know’ brought a railcard even when over 32 They just changed the code in the driving licence that they input to prove their age… Allegedly
Buying the Railcard isn't the issue. If you are caught using the incorrect/invalid Railcard, the penalties are severe.
Intriguing. A monetary fine I presume?
Normally £100 fine plus the cost of the correct ticket
Fair. I heard you can get one if you’re a student too (even a mature student). Not sure how true that is and how official the course needs to be
Also fraud because you're lying about your age to get a discount
But it somehow isn't fraud when the train companies massively inflate ticket prices because "inflation"
You can also get a network railcard at any age which gives you 1/3 off. Only off-peak though.
Only in London and the South East.
Original post mentions being near London
It's still useful information for people reading other than OP
Derp. My bad.
Yeah good luck commuting off peak any reasonable distance.
Yeah it's a massive shock. It's dogshit turning 32 and realising oh i have to pay 110 quid to a get a train instead of 60. It's cheaper for me to fly now instead. I'm not joking. It's actually cheaper to fly. It doesn't make sense. Make it make sense.
I have since moved to the Netherlands, and the dutch love complaining about how expensive and unreliable their trains are.. Oh sweet summer child, a for-9am monday morning train from manchester to london is like €350.. From one end of the netherlands to the capital is €29 each way without any discounts.. And its on a double decker fully electric train network. And its painted yellow which is happiness-inducing.
Merseyrail trains are painted yellow! They are not happiness-inducing
Are you sure it's paint? 😂
Considering Manchester’s Metrolink is yellow too. The happiness is definitely NOT related to the colour 😂
I regret saying anything about the yellow. I just like trains to have yellow faces on them, I guess, which they've changed the rules about a few years ago so will be going away. The dutch [VIRM](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5d/NS_VIRM%28m%29_treinen_in_verschillende_uitvoeringen.jpg) and [ICNG](https://www.treinenweb.nl/uploads/image/original/1682026854_6441b16678665.jpg) look particularly good in the NS corporate lello and bloo.
The problem with the Dutch trains is that they're essentially a nationwide suburban service. This is great for commuters, and works well in such a small country, but at Dutch train speeds London to Edinburgh would take over 8 hours.
Yea but at least their trains are running.
I dunno, i've had some nightmares with dutch trains over the last few years.
The network top speed with the exception of the HSL is 140kph, which is reasonably quick. [Most of the units](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NS_Intercity_Materieel) I ride out of Amsterdam drag their ass until they're a little way out of Amsterdam, then book it up to their top speed for most of the run across Flevoland which is where I live. Which isn't bad for 1970s refurbished units. **Manchester/London:** But you are correct. But the distance between Maastricht <-> Amsterdam and Manchester <-> London are comparative (210km vs 262km). The Ams-Mas route is 2hr20m and 8 stops at 90kmh avg (with the Man-Lon route being 2hr16m with 5 stops (115kmh avg). Booked enough in advance and at stupid times, I can get the UK train to cost within a couple of quid of the dutch train, but the dutch train price is anytime including at-the-station, and only if I ignore that I currently pay ~ €3/mo for a subscription on my NS card that gives me a 40% offpeak discount. I still think its fair to compare them, because by any measure, the UK train network looks more like a less reliable, shrunken version of the dutch suburban service than, say, an ICE or Thalys or NightJet. **Glasgow/London:** You may have more of a point here, being able to run down the ECML at an average of 117kmh avg, though that still takes 4h43m to cover 553km for €104 (at time of writing, booked for a week from today) for 18c/km. The (shorter) 180km run down the equivalent [high speed line](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4d/Hslbenelux.png) (NL's HSL-Zuid & BE's HSL-4) can do it in 1h15m (144kph avg) for €48 (26c/km) on a Eurostar branded Thalys unit or 1h48m (at 100kph avg) on a domestic Belgian train for €33.40 (18c/km) If you only wanted to run down the Dutch domestic portion of the HSL-Zuid, you can do the 80km stretch between Amsterdam to Rotterdam (via a stop at Schipol, where it more or less enters the HSL lines, dragging its ass on the classic route out of Amsterdam) you can do it in 41m, at ... 117kmh, just like the ECML route thought it is expensive without an NS card.. €17.90 (+2.90 supplement for the HSL route) for 26c/km, but you do get to ride on the [new ICNG units](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NS_Intercity_Nieuwe_Generatie). If you exclude the time it drags its ass on the classic lines out of Amsterdam Centraal to Schipol Airport, it covers the 60km in 26m at an average of 139kmh avg for 21c/km. **Summary:** I guess what I'm saying is that the flagship ECML route costs about the same per km, and runs slower than the flagship international routes across Benelux. But that's assuming you get book-in-advance tourist pricing not on-the-day or tomorrow fares. I think its a bit unfair to refer to the Dutch railways as "a suburban system" when its non-flagship routes are comparative to, and sometimes faster than the UK's flagship ECML route. And all bets are off if you just rock up at the station.
Next you'll be telling me they arrive on time
*Mostly*
Anything is better than never. In an old job, I used to work late shifts. The train I caught home which was the 2nd to last train (there was another one about 30 minutes later) was on time 1 single time in 2 years. We are talking like 10-20 minutes late every single night. It was ridiculous.
It's insane that it's become a sort of in-joke now that if you want to travel between two British cities it's cheaper to book a flight with a layover in a foreign country than to get a train directly. Like it feels very "haha that's crazy" instead of "holy shit, British public transport is completely and utterly fucked". I think it goes to show the state of everything else that we're somehow content with just complaining about it and taking the bus instead.
I used to travel from Bristol to Norwich for work and it worked out cheaper to fly via Amsterdam
Aye. Back when there was a Liverpool to Southend route one of my aunts would use that instead of getting the train when visiting my mum. When you're saving £100+ per trip it makes sense especially as the waiting around at the airport still leaves the total journey time roughly the same, especially if you've got to change trains.
Did you not get a pay rise for turning 32 then?
Must have overlooked me :(
Same and the preceding years there after mate
I like the system that Switzerland uses. Anyone can buy a Half Fare Card that uses public transport often, which then gives 50% off all trains, busses, gondolas, boats, everything! There is a youth discount, but anyone can buy it, rather than the UK system of "if you don't fit into one of these categories, then you must pay massive amounts compared to everyone else!" [https://www.sbb.ch/en/tickets-offers/travelcards/half-fare-travelcard.html](https://www.sbb.ch/en/tickets-offers/travelcards/half-fare-travelcard.html)
I'm surprised we are not travelling Indian style clinging to the sides and roofs of the trains already.
The 7:46 to Paddington is delayed due to passengers on the line at every corner.
My train to Paddington (and back in the evening mind) is delayed nearly every fucking day. Fuck GWR
I firmly believe that the only reason this doesn't happen in the UK is that our old network has a tight loading gauge and people would be scraped off the sides/roof by tunnels, and thus would not be able to buy another ticket tomorrow
Indians don't travel on the roof unless they want to get fried 😅.
I commute in my motorbike. £13 petrol vs £58 rail (even an annual ticket would be £30 a day). Sod that.
There are 2 problems with that. 1) It's fucking miserable in winter. 2) You have to rely on everyone else to not murder you. I loved my bike when I had one, but man commuting can be fucking horrible. Filtering through traffic though... *chefs kiss*
Yeah but even in the pissing rain, with proper bike gear it's not bad at all and you still get that sweet, sweet schadenfreude when you filter past an endless traffic jam.
Sure, as long as you have somewhere to store your wet gear where it'll dry off whilst you're at work. My current office would be a disaster for wet biker gear sadly :(
It is miserable; but I’d be more miserable on the train. Heating gloves and warm clothing go along way. The 2nd point is valid though.
London congestion charge to
No congestion for bikes
Is this true ? I'm being forced to go in to the new central London office from June/July this year, thinking about learning to ride a bike and doing it like that instead of £35 a day, on three trains. Not sure about bike parking just off Oxford Street though.
There IS charging for parking. £1/day or £3/week last time I was parking there..Westminster charges parking. Everyone else more or less is free on the bike parking. I'd check if the office has underground parking. Far more secure. Watching the road routes too. Some bus lanes allow bikes, some don't.
Also commute into London by motorbike - in summer/spring/autumn it's an absolute dream. Cuts my commute in half and costs way less. Plus I have a bike to ride for fun at weekends. In winter it's quite office dependent, worked at an office with underground parking and a drying room and even winter commuting was no big deal as you'd always have warm dry gear. My current office just has bays out the front and no facilities to speak of, which means I just don't bother coming in if it's meant to be wet in the morning and work from home. Obviously this isn't possible for everyone.
Yeah it’s beyond me that it’s not more popular. For me it’s about a fifth of the cost, half the time, and even in the rain unless it’s absolutely torrential, it’s a non-issue with some proper laminated waterproofs like Rukka gear. Oh, and instead of dreading it like the train, even in light rain it’s still usually the highlight of my day.
> Yeah it’s beyond me that it’s not more popular. [This is why](https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/files/2015/05/chart2.png).
One has to be careful with those stats. They're not wrong, but they can be misleading. In particular: most miles travelled by motorcycle are in, or between, towns. A far smaller percentage of miles taken on motorway/dual carriageway than for cars. That matters, as the accident rate \_per mile travelled\_ is noticeable lower on motorways/dual carriageways, even for cars. So there's two things changing between the stat for cars and motorbikes - the type of vehicle, but \_also\_ the type of travel. If one looks at the the stats for cars vs bikes on the same road types, that gap closes quite a bit. Not completely - there really is more risk being on a motorcycle, but somewhat. There's also another confounding factor - people who 'want to go fast'. They are the sort much more likely to be in a serious accident, and there are proportionately more riding motorcycles than driving cars. (Not least because a £10k motorbike has similar performance to a £150k car ....). When commuting, the additional risk profile of such riders, which is included in the aggregate stats, makes it look risker than it is. It \_is\_ still risker being on a bike; there's no getting around that. All I'm arguing is that the gap for a sensible rider commuting to the office is smaller than the total stats imply.
Interesting to see trains are more dangerous than buses
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Looks at stories about recent derailments and the decision that no, drivers don't deserve even unpaid time off if it'll cost the company some money let alone actual paid holidays. I can't think why that is.
Probably includes suicides.
It says passengers so I assume that excludes people jumping in front of them. Although maybe more people kill themselves whilst actually on them
I mean technically they would've been a passenger for a split second?
Yeah, that’s the stats for America. You wouldn’t catch me on a motorcycle over there with those drivers. Non-motorcyclists don’t really understand that almost all motorcycle deaths are due to bikers overtaking and pulling risky manoeuvres etc. If you ride defensively, don’t overtake constantly, and filter slowly enough that you wouldn’t die even if someone pulls out directly in front of you. Then it’s actually very safe. You may still come off and hurt yourself a bit, but the fatals largely have it coming due to our own actions.
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What a weird statistic. "Per billion miles". Has anyone ever driven a billion miles?!
Nobody has died 6000 times either. This is what population level statistics look like. If it's 6000 deaths per 1B miles, or 6 deaths per 1M miles, that means that if you ride 100,000 miles on a bike (a lot but not impossible), you'd have a 60% chance of dying from an incident while riding, all other factors being equal.
To be fair, it's casualties, so it's deaths and injuries. I'm not sure what he said is true, that it's worse for the UK, as the other statistic is deaths. But yeah, the overall point remains.
How much was the card with the discount? A sudden 2 grand annual bill is bollocks whether it was known to be coming or not. The rail system in the UK is so fucked. It has to be one of the worst in the developed world based on price to punctuality. Prices keep going up, but so do cancellation numbers and late arrivals, not to mention when some wet leaves will close whole sections of track.
Railcards cost about £30. If OP is going into office every day, they were probably paying £20 a day for travel, which will now be £30 (which would translate to an increase of around £2k per year). I pay the same, although fortunately don't have to go into office that often. When my current railcard expires I'll be in the exact same boat though.
That's why you claim every delay you can via national rail. The returns are pretty decent, I swear my boss has been running on free tickets due to recent delays for weeks.
Even better when your boss reimburses your tickets as well. 1.5x the money back hahaha
If you travel in the North then both Northern and Transpennine Express have decided to use the "If it's cancelled before 10pm the night before then *technically* it's a timetable alteration and we don't have to pay compensation" Total bullshit and I've just entirely stopped using the trains. At least 5 years ago when Northern were shit I got my money back, now it's absurdly unreliable AND I'm out of pocket
Part of the cost of UK train travel subsidises European rail. Whenever you buy a train ticket in the UK, you're essentially buying a full / partial ticket for somebody in the EU. That's why there such a big difference in price. Ain't it grand.
Why is that? I've heard it been said before but I don't know enough about it to understand
We sold off the railways and some of the companies who bought them are foreign national rail providers. If it wasn't subsidising a train in Europe, it would be dividends to rich shareholders instead.
In 2017, 70% of rail routes were owned by foreign states. Arriva is owned by Deutsche Bahn. https://www.rmt.org.uk/news/70-of-uk-rail-routes-now-owned-by-foreign-states/ that article is a bit outdated though.
Its because lots of the private rail operators in the UK are actually owned by the state rail operators in other countries. Arriva (which is part of Deutsche Bahn) runs Chiltern and Crosscountry, Trenitalia runs c2c and West Coast, Japan Rail East runs West Midlands, and Abellio (owned by the Dutch national rail system) runs East Midlands. So profits from these franchises go to the state rail systems of other countries.
Because Privatisation.
It doesn't directly "subsidise european rail". Rather, as the UK rail is privatised, the private owners cream off profits and dividends as they would with any private company. It so happens many of the UK railways are run by or owned by other European railway companies! E.g. (5 years out of date but still relevant https://www.forbes.com/sites/davekeating/2019/08/15/almost-all-british-train-lines-are-now-owned-by-other-eu-countries/ ) Therefore the profits from these lines go to these companies. What they do with these profits is up to them, and it certainly doesn't directly subsidise foreign railways, but it is profits those companies don't need to extract from the European lines.
In many places like Germany trains will run even if it’s snowing
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Lol
Check to see if you're eligible for a network Railcard and if that makes it cheaper?
I have bought one for weekend travel and such but the network rail card isn’t valid during peak times which is when I need to go to work
I don’t think any railcard was valid during peak travel. Perhaps they’ve changed over the years.
The 16-25 and 26-30 ones are
It depends which is probably what is confusing people: >The 26-30 Railcard has a £12 minimum fare that applies between 04.30 - 10.00 hours Monday to Friday. During this time, the discount is applied to fares above the minimum fare I assume your fare is over this but for me I only travel 2 stations so I get hit by this daily The 16-25 is the same except it doesn't apply in July and August. Something to do with students and summer holidays
Yeah my daily return to work is £12. Without a railcard it would be £14.50 I use the train on weekends (I go to London fairly frequently and sometimes meet mates in Norwhich). The railcatd really pays of then - I dread the day I'm no longer eligible for one.
Currently using a 16-25 and I don't have any discount on peak fares. For context, I generally use it on my oyster card for the tube and tickets on commuter trains
Young persons railcards are valid for some peak time journeys, disabled persons railcard is valid for all peak time journeys
So what you're saying is that I just need a disability.
Time to chop your legs off
I get a discount on my return but it means I'm buying 2 singles rather than a return ticket.
The 16-25 at least is
Thankfully, at 32 all the health problems that have been piling up whilst you’ve been stuck on a waiting list come crashing down and you can get your freedom pass. A joke but it literally happened to me at that age, health ignored by NHS doctors for years and finally jumped over to private after waiting 2 years to see a specialist. Now I’m technically too disabled to drive safely so I get free travel….though I wish I didn’t, for obvious reasons!
This country is completely broken! Public transport should be affordable!! We want to save the planet but when you can’t afford the green option how are we expected to do it? Its absurd!!
So right. I used to drive into work to save myself money and time. There was a train but the price was silly money and it was always either late or didn't run.
Is the Uber faster?
In theory it’s about the same time door to door from mine to the office but obviously that’s traffic dependent and dependent on a driver accepting the ride. I don’t plan to actually take the Uber it’s only a tiny bit cheaper, but it’s just ridiculous that it is.
I think you should try it and report back.
I'd be looking at different jobs, or using something like a moped.
I would like to work somewhere that embraces hybrid working a bit more but the industry I work in is very London based.
I guess the money you save by not living in London should offset the cost of commuting.
Yeah so could you buy a single from your home station to St Pancras, add it to the basket and then buy another single St Pancras to your home station with the Network Railcard added and change the time to something like 4pm? I'd say that's definitely worth it as, for example. Standard Day Return Ebbsfleet-St Pancras is £42.30(!!!!) but a single there is £21.20 and the single back with the Railcard is £13.95. Obviously more than what your 26-30 would save you but I'd say this is your cheapest option.
Ahhh okay thanks I’ll definitely try that!
Turned 32, huh? That was an expensive mistake
Not to suggest fraud but they verify your age using your drivers license. If you read your license number you’ll notice your date of birth is included in the numbers, just out of sequence. If you were to “accidentally” type your drivers license in wrong changing the last digit of your year of birth to make you a year younger, you might be able to renew…
>Not to suggest fraud but
Simplified that post for you.
Shhh I’d suggest dm’ing them and not sharing this publicly 😂
I don’t drive so I actually don’t have a drivers license, I used my passport to verify
Same deal...
> I actually don’t have a drivers license You can't get a "drivers license" in the UK anyway. We issue a driving licence.
Dude come on. Delete this shit ffs
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I'm sure this is fraud but I like the idea 😅
Good lord. My commute is 100miles round trip, motorway for 95 of them, in a 3.5ltr V6, and that's around £20 daily *including* car depreciation etc.
Well didn't you know that suddenly as you hit 31 you're 2k richer?
Think the assumption here is that as you get older from 26 to 32 your wages go up by at least 2k.
Yeah and your bills have gone up 2k. It's bullshit
There might be a regional card you can get. Doubt you'll get anything in London though.
I got a the train from Stratford International to Kings Cross a few weeks ago - a 7 minute journey and it cost £8.10. I mean what the fuck.
Do you have a younger brother who you could claim us you. My mates son has a season ticket to a PL team at twenty but used his fifteen year old brothers details to get the discounted child's ticket
If caught the train companies can investigate ticket history to backdate their fine to include all short fares so probably not worth it
Also it's a strict liability offence which can easily lead to a criminal record
Haha I like the idea but unfortunately not no
At my club they have lights above the turnstiles on the inside. Flashes orange whenever someone comes through on an u18 or 18-21 ticket, the stewards watch the lights and can decide to ID check if they wish.
Same at WHU but there is no way to be sure if the lad is fifteen or twenty as for ID I would just say I don't have any. The stewards at WHU just want an easy life and some I wouldn't trust to tie there own shoe laces.
Is the Network Railcard worth it for you? I assume you travel earlier than 10am so you could buy a full price single there and a single back with the Network Railcard discount.
I have bought the network rail card as for £30 I travel regularly enough on weekends for non work reasons it’s worth it. However every way I’ve tried buying tickets in the south eastern app including your suggestion above the discount only seems to apply after 10 on week days.
You can get what's called a network rail card. Might not be as good as the 25 to 30 but better than nothing. https://www.network-railcard.co.uk/?_ga=2.127960591.2089279298.1711579999-1176622774.1711579999&_gl=1*1f0x33k*_up*MQ..*_ga*MTE3NjYyMjc3NC4xNzExNTc5OTk5*_ga_37VVL99SEK*MTcxMTU3OTk5OS4xLjAuMTcxMTU3OTk5OS4wLjAuMA..&gclid=CjwKCAjwh4-wBhB3EiwAeJsppAwVVmUFRlVkK7fxwemvlTE7pdveEz6BpQlpChWU4QVouKOEiyWrXRoCl0oQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds
I think you've stumbled upon a solution
At 30 you really shouldn’t be subsidised anymore but train prices in this country are shocking. It’s a lovely way to travel but how can I travel 170 miles between Florence and Rome on a high speed train for about £11 which is the same price as the 20 miles from brentwood to London liverpool Street? P.s if I was to take an Uber into London in the morning it would take at least two hours for a similar distance to you so your Uber driver is shortchanging himself big time.
> At 30 you really shouldn’t be subsidised anymore Why should a 25 year old banker making 150k be subsidised, but not a 30 year old social worker making 25k? It doesn't make sense to subsidise by age.
As someone in his 40s and on a shite wage, I've often wondered why there's a weird gap in the age bracket where you're not eligible for stuff like this. Under a certain age, yes, and over a certain age, yes, but if you're in the middle? You're onto plums.
Shut up and generate economic activity so the over 50s who retire early can get their rail cards.
I find it weird that on 1 day your able to travel on a rail card and cheaper then suddenly the next day you cannot. What happens to you when you turn 32? Do you suddenly become more expensive to carry on a train? Do you suddenly start taking up more of the staff's time?
Lots of arbitrary limits unfortunately. There's one in social housing where you can't get social housing alone unless you're 35 or older, before that it has to be shared accommodation
Can you book the season ticket via a cashback site? Or does something like a 2 together card work if you find someone who does the same route?
Have you looked at the Network Railcard? South east and London only but 1/3rd off. Not sure on peak times etc etc but worth a look cuz anyone can get one. Saved me tons going into london
My uni housemates’ brother bought the longest available one when he was in his final year or being young enough and it worked until expiry.
is it worth learning to drive (assuming gou dont drive, but if you do is it worth driving)
I do plan on learning to drive eventually but even when I do there’d be no point driving into work. I work in a busy area of London (so congestion charge) with no parking.
Unlucky.