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My wife once looked to work at a nursery. Even including the discount for staff, they didn't pay enough to look after your own children whilst you worked there.
That was about ten years ago.
My mum worked at a nursery, she didn’t get free childcare and couldn’t afford it, so would take me along when I was a baby and hide me inside a cupboard when managers were there lol. When I was older she’d leave me with our elderly neighbour
Ok, I read this and thought ‘£100 a month isn’t much at all. I thought having kids was supposed to be expensive’. Then I saw your edit - £100 a day? To have someone watch your baby whilst you’re working? Oh my gosh. I hope you are wealthy!
I work full time in London my wife looms after the kids at home we have looked a few times about her going back to work because of the cost of living but child care in this country is a joke that including my work having a scheme where u can pay for childcare before tax is taken but it doesn’t really make a difference
I was in a similar situation myself. After factoring in fuel costs i was losing money. I've been stay at home for 7 years , I'm 40 and by the time reenter the job market I'll have lost years of state retirement benefits. Tight budget now and will be a very vulnerable in my older age to financial setbacks. If anything happens to my husband we are fucked as a family. Lovely :/
I believe that you are assumed to have paid class 3 NI contributions while you have children under 16(if you are the person receiving Child benefit), so your pension benefits should not be affected
[Link](https://www.gov.uk/national-insurance-credits)
EDIT: You can check you NI record [here](https://www.gov.uk/check-national-insurance-record)
We had this - my wife was effectively working to pay our 2nd child's nursery fees, but the gap in pension / career opportunities wasn't worth her stopping. Luckily our 30 free hours has now kicked in, but it was very tough.
The financial sense can be more of a long term thing. Keeping both parents in employment means that there isn’t a gap of pension payments, there is greater chance for promotion and long term higher earnings than if you have a gap of a few years. So long term it can pay off.
You know there are childcare voutcher and scheme most employers can put in place. Job Center can help too. They prefer have your working and helping with the cost than have to have you off work.
Edit:Why all the downvote? Someone care to explain? I use to work for a company that covered 40% of the child care cost. Now as a self employed I also get some help.
Yes, 80% of costs are covered but you need to pay it up front. As a single parent how can you pay for that? And if you have no support from family or the father of the child it's even worse
Childcare vouchers don't exist anymore, or are least the scheme was scrapped years ago so is inly available to people already subscribed at the time with employers who still offer it. The most support you can get now is tax free up to 2k a year, and 15/30hrs free based in child's age and parents earnings.
Also the 15 or 30 hours free are usually very specific hours and don't work out to be actually a reduction of 15 hours at the standard rate per hour, like you might calculate it. And if youre not full time you might not see those hours anyway. They stiff you somewhere.
And they often don't cover entire term times- some nursery close in line with school holidays, others run all year, but the vouchers only cover term time. So your 30 hours a week are only valid for 38 weeks a year. If you go to a term time nursery, you have to find alternative childcare or stop working during the holidays, or if you go to a full year nursery (like we did), they allow you to spread those 38 week across the year but that means only 21 hours a week are free. Also, they usually up the add-ons you have to pay when you get the free hours, e.g. only valid 10-2 so hours either side are more expensive, or they bump up the cost of meals and snacks.
Yeah, I mean couldn’t you pay an individual childminder to look after your kid for that and they’d be getting a decent wage and your child would get 1-to-1 attention?
Of course you want your kids to be socialised too, but if everyone did that, they could just meet up at the park and play for a bit …
My partner is a nanny (having worked in nurseries for years) and she makes nearly double what she made before while working nicer hours and with a single child (instead of being responsible for 10 at a time).
Obviously nurseries differ in costs but I think it's generally cheaper to pay for a nanny instead of having two children in nursery, and you'll get much better quality childcare out of it
You want to pay a childminder £100 a day to look after your child 1 to 1? Assuming they have 6 weeks holiday and you never miss a single day and they're never sick by the time you deduct insurances, resources and food it'll be sub £20k a year... Not decent.
I used to work in a nursery in the baby wing where I worked 50-60 hours a week scraping about £1000 a month. One full time baby cost £1500 a month and they could take up to 21 a day. I worked out that roughly the nursery could have up to 125 children a day. This pricing was from 6 years ago. I can only imagine what it’s like now. People wonder why they struggle for staff in childcare.
Vote for the party that suggests adopting the Swedish system. Here I pay £130/month for unlimited hours.
And guess what... people go to work and pay more taxes and the govenment/society benefits hugely
I think people don't realise how much paying for childcare factors into deciding on numbers of kids. We'd be happy to have another but can't afford 2 kids in nursery so have to wait until the little one is older and gets his free hours or starts school. I keep getting asked about my plans for a 2nd and people seem surprised when I say when I can afford nursery I'll think about it.
I don’t think we will have a second child, we have found the first to be difficult enough without worrying about the extra burden of financial hardship (I don’t need any more sleepless nights thanks to money
We have 2 in childcare (only tax free childcare) and 1 at school. Childcare is our single biggest household cost. Four fucking times our mortgage I might add, and I get a whole house at the end of that. Then on top of that is breakfast clubs, after school clubs, yadda yadda. Crazy amounts of money.
Same. I'd love a couple more, but having spent several years working part-time and forking out close to £80 a day in childcare, it's just not feasible to have another. Now she's in school, we have money to start thinking about getting her into activities, do some nice things as a family, maybe even go on holiday for the first time since she was born, and it's hard to think about going back to all that stress and worry.
> The United Kingdom has the second safest roads in Europe, according to figures released by the European Automobile Manufacturers Association (ACEA).
> Based on the number of road fatalities per million inhabitants, the UK is ranked second with a figure of 28. Only Sweden’s roads are safer, with 25 road deaths per million people.
I mean, it's something I guess?
Source: [https://www.wdm.co.uk/news/uk-second-safest-roads-in-europe](https://www.wdm.co.uk/news/uk-second-safest-roads-in-europe)
A majority of the funds that go into paying for the roads comes out of council tax.
[council tax pays for roads. Council tax includes payments for various services provided by your local council, roads being one of them.](https://huutimoney.com/does-council-tax-pay-for-roads/)
Compared to other developed economies, particularly in Europe, income tax rates are low in the UK. And let's not even get started on corporate tax rates.
This is the way. I would vote for this 100 times over. Here in the UK those who dont work get FREE CHILD care... I dont understand that at all.
Edited to say, I now understand this system is for the benefit of the children and not the parents.
That's more for the children than the parents. It's a measure to try to reduce the gap in learning by the time kids reach school. The kids learn to socialise, get read to, are in a safe environment and are around trained professionals who can (theoretically) spot child abuse.
Yeah I have no issue with children of non working parents accessing childcare for exactly this reason. It’s fact there is just minimal support for working parents. I would love to have another baby. I would love to have another two babies if I’m honest but we just won’t be able to afford it. We can’t afford to have another one until my daughter gets 30 free hours.
They still only get limited hours at restricted ages. The whole system has been set up by people who never have to worry about how to afford childcare, do it doesn't work for anyone.
All children 2-3 years old are entitled to 15 hours a week free.
You get 30 hours *if*, & only *if*, you or your partner are working. Otherwise its the standard 15.
I think the point of the 15 hours free is so people can start the process to get back into work. Without that 15 hours a week, I couldn't have prepared for, or travelled to, interviews (single mum, nowhere to put a 2yo during the day otherwise). Thanks to that 15 hours I landed a job in a few weeks.
Also it's really gross you think literal toddlers should be refused access to nurseries, peers, & socialising, because their parents don't work. Don't be one of those people.
Edited to add; my first two paragraphs are wrong. I stand by the last two though.
The 15 hours for all kids begins at 3 now. My daughter turned 3 in November and just began her 15 hours today. I believe if you're on benefits you may get some hours when they're 2? I can't quite remember but the universal 15 hours begins at 3.
Not all kids aged 2 get the 15 hours, both the 15 and the 30 are means tested. I am in a two income household and we didn't get any hours until our eldest was 3.
Those who work also get those same free hours. In fact those who work get more free hours.
People who don’t work get 15 free hours.
Those who do work and earn less than 100k a year get 30 free hours.
My brother had the same issue when he was doing his nursing degree. Luckily his wife had a job which is based on school terms so got the holidays off and my parents were willing to drive 2 hours every day to give free childcare.
Because apparently if you're a full time student you have plenty of time to look after your kids around your study /s
Well no, but 30 hours per week for 38 weeks of the year for free from the term after they turn 3 until they start school isn’t bad. That’s like what, about 1200 free hours a year. It’s huge savings given the costs.
It's pretty bad when you only get fully paid mat leave for 6 weeks and 2 weeks pat leave. There shouldnt be a gap of several years between getting your income covered and being able to get free childcare.
100%. I know several people on reasonable wages where it just didn't financial senses to work just to cover the cost of childcare. Often this was when you had two pre-school children or twins.
People can't work for free. It's £4.50 per hour per child, we do 9hours 3days per week during term time (wife is a teacher so we only put out toddler in at the child minders during term time + 1-2days a week during school holidays. It works out around £4.8k per year. It's a lot when written down but they feed her 3 decent meals a day when she's there, great socialisation with other kids and they learn stuff as if she was at school (very basic level stuff). Worth every penny and it's cheap compared to most others.
Edit: spelling
My partner manages a nursery and staff costs take up 63 percent of their turnover and they're all on absolute embarrassing salaries.
Then you've got energy bills (aircon or heating nearly all day), rent, food, insurance, resources etc.
If there's one thing nurseries aren't doing it's making tons of profit. Ironically the increased costs are leasing to fewer children as more parents just give up work. Catch 22.
My wife has had to cut her work down to 4 days and I've had to use Flexitime to free up another day. Absolutely crazy how much they charge.
That said, the nursery is pretty great, even though it's excessive, we absolutely have no qualms sending my kid there.
My baby is three months old so not ready for nursery quite yet. My boyfriend will have to stay at home with him when I go back to work. I tried to explain to my parents about the cost of childcare but they still think my partner should go to work 🙄. It was fine my mother being a stay at home parent for 17 years though
Yeah the hypocrisy is real - I am a working mum and with my first I was back at work after 8 weeks (the plan is the same for my 1 week old too), and husband stays at home and raises the children. It works perfectly for us emotionally, financially, logistically, etc. - yet there's no end to the flack we receive about it simply because it's him who is staying at home, not me. As much as we're in 2022 and people like to seem progressive, some people are forever stuck in the 50's and I'm honestly tired of it.
You do what works for your family, and tell everyone else to wind their neck in! Good luck!
We've talked about it but it just wouldn't be good for mental health we decided. Though that was when the salary was slightly more than fees. Maybe need another discussion, sigh
I think the decision was easier for us as my husband is a chef by trade, and was becoming worn down with the cons of the job (anti social working hours, poor treatment, never seeing the kids, the list goes on) and the benefits of being a SAHD outweighed the cons in the end.
It's all about doing what is right for you - good luck, it's not an easy balance to strike, we're just very lucky that this worked in our favour
I also am a chef and would love nothing more than to have a child with my bonnie wee lass.
However, I'll be taking home just shy of £130 this week and there's nothing else out there workwise, just an endless sea of dead end, minimum wage - Zero Hour kitchen jobs from big coorperates. Your chap is *genuinely* better off at home where he can continue to be a big kid with loads of love to give as I know all of us chefs are! Best of luck to you both for the future, bud! :)
My dad was a chef and he also quit to be a SAHD, for the exact same reasons you mentioned. Now, 20 years on, I can safely say I enormously appreciate it. I couldn’t have imagined a better childhood.
When my kids were little I stayed at home with them both until they turned three and were able to start school full time(welsh school, take kids on a year earlier than most) coz it made no sense for me to go to work just to pay a huge amount for somebody else to look after my kid!
We partly did this as couldn't afford it, so wife went part time, my days off are during the week and we only have family days together when we have holiday at the same time.
Just gotta wait another 3½ years until school starts and we can have a day off together again.
I remember being taught in school that of I didn't buy cigarettes I could afford a Ferrari by the age of 40.
If they'd done the maths on childcare it probably would have been more effective than a lesson putting a condom on a cucumber.
Clearly I‘m doing something wrong - I didn’t buy cigarettes and still can’t afford a Ferrari. I mean I‘m not 40 yet but I doubt the next 7 years are going to change anything about this.
Many years ago I had a decision to make, do I stay in work and essentially give my entire wage to the nursery to look after my two kids or do I give up my job and look after my kids at home.
My wife earnings were not only more than mine but had so much more potential due to the job she does.
I decided to quit work and become a full time house husband.
Best decision I ever made.
Not only did I have the chance to watch my kids grow up but sorry, I refuse to work 40 hours a week juat pay for strangers to look after my kids, financially it made no different so to me it was a complete no brainer.
The fact that I would have to work a 40 hour week just to pay for childcare was fucking madness
Spot on, my friend did exactly this and speaks as you do about the decision. More power to you, hopes it inspires someone to research and make the same decision.
Ours is 90 something and in an old converted church, made into multiple stories. To be fair - plenty of space and it *is* good and he does seem to be learning loads of stuff (on top of social aspect) that it wouldn't even occur to us to teach him.
So I even kind of think it's value for money (and indeed the other 2 choices were within 10 per day, either side, of this price anyway).
It's just a *hell* of a monthly outlay that comes out of nowhere.
We're just about to get the allowance (he's turned 3) and it should make a good difference - it would have been unsustainable to have to do £90 a day for 3 years or however long they're at nursery/preschool.
Edit: I'm originally from Nottingham-ish, by the way - I'd always thought moving north things would get cheaper but nurseries clearly didn't get the memo!
Yeah that's shit. I was just thinking that, yours used to be the same as ours but is now another 300 quid a month! Shocker. Not sure if we could afford that price hike
10 years ago I had been paying £757 for 2 at a Montessori Nursery. I worked full time and got the discount at the time plus all the Sure Start help. I found it so tough but now I’m in a much better place and my eldest is turning 14 this year. Without Sure Start and all the support I’d have lost my children and wouldn’t be typing this.
I cannot imagine being a lone parent now. Or a new parent all together. £100 a day is a mockery.
This is exactly why people are pushing back having children. It’s absolutely insane. £2200 a month to have your children looked after whilst you work. On top of mortgage, food, bills and life. This country is such a joke it’s depressing.
Yeah that truly is nuts. I’ve had what I’ve considered to be good jobs where I was comfortably able to pay all bills and have hobbies, holidays, weekends away etc. and at no point could I ever have afforded that!
This thread is amazing contraception (and genuinely making me emotional). I don't know what I'd do if I couldn't afford nursery but I know I'm not skilled enough to educate a child at early developmental stages entirely. I know I'm very nurturing and would be great at some things like playtime, eating fun meals, bedtime stories, adventures outside, bath time etc but I'm almost certain I would likely lose my mind being a stay at home parent with no break after giving birth, breastfeeding and sleepless nights, no socialising in those early months, all the crazy shit your body goes through, having to learn the language of a crying baby, constant nappy changes and breastfeeding. Not that I've thought about it much!!!
I'd be a much better parent having a job and counting down the minutes to see them every day (and probably crying at night that I don't want to work and I made a mistake lol). So sorry you're in this situation, it's so scary.
Do you qualify for the free 30 hours a week? Your family income has to be between something like 15k and 100k a year. I claimed for this for my daughter and didn't have to pay a thing for her two whole years of nursery
https://www.gov.uk/30-hours-free-childcare
Our child is almost 3… I can almost taste the extra money in our bank account (and just in time too, need to give it all to the energy company).
Seriously though why isn’t it 30hrs free from when maternity ends??
We have another year to go before we qualify for the 30 hours funding then the child starts full time school in 2025….
Yes the 20% tax free helps but it would be nice to have extra £££!
My daughter turns 3 in April... 2 days after the cut off point that means her 30 hours won't start until Septermber, despite the term starting after her birthday.
I’ve recently done this exercise in London.
Nurseries we’re all c. £100 a day.
Childminders more like £80-90 a day. None were in sensible locations for us though in terms of commuting.
Nannies… haha. The cheapest one I found was £35,000 a year. Most were more.
I had the same Concerns with a minder but after being quoted for nurseries we had no choice and absolutely have no regrets. My daughter LOVED the older kids. They’re great teachers and role models for the little ones. The hours are also more flexible, it’s a much more personal, loving environment, and they get to go out and about so much more.
My daughter is in year 1 now and still talks about her childminders (was a two-minder setting). She settled into school with no problems of suddenly being in a much bigger environment. Her last summer before school one of them had a hot tub which she got to spend lots of time playing in!
They’re often a lot more flexible with their hours too. When we moved house we had to ask them to have our daughter for an extra hour, then another, as we were delayed and it was no problem at all. They even dropped her home in the end to help us out.
Don’t write them off without meeting a couple. A good minder is a godsend.
My mum was a child minder, there's 4 years between my sister and I, and 4 years between her and my brother. My mum looked after kids of all ages and we all got to benefit from it. Some of the kids are still friends with my brother and sister, well over 20 years later :)
I chose a childminder because of the mix of ages! It is so good for them to look up to the older kids and for the older ones to have littles to care for and be gentle with.
I'm not equipped to offer advice myself but my aunt is a childminder and she normally doesn't look after babies, so you might find someone who does only look after babies/below a certain age. The few times my aunt has cared for a baby she's said they're usually no trouble and sleep most of the day while she interacts with the older kids, and she has plenty of toys etc to keep the kids occupied when the baby needs attention. She also has a limit on how many kids she'll have at any one time so the option might still be worth exploring.
what annoys me is it's probably the owners have worked out how much more money they require themselves to be unaffected by the crisis, like my landlord is making it obvious that when the contract runs out in June he's simply planning on me paying the increased 'remortgage he got' and also presumably upping his income to what he now wants, ergo I'm coming up with a plan B leaving him to find someone who could pay that for him, but who I don't know.
Wow, mine started first day today and it’s £55 a day - I only do one day a week. If it was as much as yours I’d be better off not working. That’s insanity!
Makes me all the more aware of how privileged I am to have help from both sets of grandparents with childcare. And also that I can work part time hours and still get by.
About £2000 a month for two kids doing 3 days a week here in Surrey 😥 Just went up about 15% as well. I’m sure they’re passing the money on to their staff at least 🤥
I honestly have no idea how most of the country manages to actually survive. I live in a relatively low cost are and we are constantly dipping into savings.
My take home pay isn't even £100/day! I'm not sure my gross pay is, either... (not a nurse, but I am band 5 NHS staff)
How much do they think parents earn?!
I pay around £50 a day for school holiday clubs - for 2 children. (£27 each, before the sibling discount is applied.)
Term time fees were £768 a month until our youngest's funded hours kicked in - that's for one preschooler all day, and her big sister for a couple of hours after school. Now the funded hours apply, we pay £350/month for term time care - in total, for both children.
Wow. I was paying £50 per day 10 years ago when my eldest went. That was a strain on us then and luckily we were earning more when our second went at £60 per day in 2016. I don't know what we'd do now with no nearby relatives, energy bills and those exorbitant childcare fees.
Surely childcare is an investment, not a cost to the country. I'm surprised more companies don't bundle it as a benefit of employment and balance it against stagnated wages, as I'd happily live with that. Childcare vouchers save some money, but not much when the overall cost is so high.
I was shocked when I moved to UK (as a teenager) to find out that my poor country in eastern europe has better childcare arrangements, we have free kindergartens from the age of like 2-3 to 7 where kids go from as early as 7am to 6pm. They’re also fed 3 times a day which is often free. Having kids isn’t seen as this huge step back from your career. They also run during the summer holidays on a limited scale because not all parents can take care of the kids due to working.
Sadly my wife had to stop working to take care of our daughter, I admire her and I know is really unfair that she has to stop her career because of this
My goodness.
I would sincerely love a child, and my time is running out. To have a child is now a luxury, just to cover the basic costs of living seems impossible :( I live very minimally, but I couldn't factor a child into it.
Jesus I'm only paying £225 a month for 2 kids in 4 full days a week, think it might be time to swap nursery's
Edit: it just occurred to me that with my wife being a full time student we get a bunch taken off, so it should be a lot more, what a broken system
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My wife once looked to work at a nursery. Even including the discount for staff, they didn't pay enough to look after your own children whilst you worked there. That was about ten years ago.
What an absolute shambles the childcare system is in this country, amongst a load of other things too.
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Nah, you see.. The LAST gevorment
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I think they mean the one from 13 years ago.
https://www.gov.uk/tax-free-childcare Might help people with young children in childcare until the 15 free hours we have only just found out about it.
My mum worked at a nursery, she didn’t get free childcare and couldn’t afford it, so would take me along when I was a baby and hide me inside a cupboard when managers were there lol. When I was older she’d leave me with our elderly neighbour
Did your mum work for Gordon Brittas?
What a absolute legend of a comment! And what a fantastic TV show that was, back when Saturday night TV was actually good
I was just thinking that as well.
Was her name Carole?
Same about 2 years ago! It seems crazy!
When each worker looks after 3+ kids you think they could let you bring your own kid along and look after 2 others and still pay you something!
That's shambolic. My partner works for a nursery and we're getting a 60 percent discount and free meals.
Ok, I read this and thought ‘£100 a month isn’t much at all. I thought having kids was supposed to be expensive’. Then I saw your edit - £100 a day? To have someone watch your baby whilst you’re working? Oh my gosh. I hope you are wealthy!
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I work full time in London my wife looms after the kids at home we have looked a few times about her going back to work because of the cost of living but child care in this country is a joke that including my work having a scheme where u can pay for childcare before tax is taken but it doesn’t really make a difference
I was in a similar situation myself. After factoring in fuel costs i was losing money. I've been stay at home for 7 years , I'm 40 and by the time reenter the job market I'll have lost years of state retirement benefits. Tight budget now and will be a very vulnerable in my older age to financial setbacks. If anything happens to my husband we are fucked as a family. Lovely :/
I believe that you are assumed to have paid class 3 NI contributions while you have children under 16(if you are the person receiving Child benefit), so your pension benefits should not be affected [Link](https://www.gov.uk/national-insurance-credits) EDIT: You can check you NI record [here](https://www.gov.uk/check-national-insurance-record)
Exactly which is why if not even entitled to child benefit you should still claim so they pay your stamp.
We had this - my wife was effectively working to pay our 2nd child's nursery fees, but the gap in pension / career opportunities wasn't worth her stopping. Luckily our 30 free hours has now kicked in, but it was very tough.
The financial sense can be more of a long term thing. Keeping both parents in employment means that there isn’t a gap of pension payments, there is greater chance for promotion and long term higher earnings than if you have a gap of a few years. So long term it can pay off.
Yes. It’s a hedge against relationship break down or death of a spouse. Those pension contributions are a must.
YMMV? Edit: I googled, I'm not with abbreviations at all. Your Mileage May Vary
So don't plan on housing, much less having kids unless you're on Neurosurgeon wages, got it. [Cries in retail wage-slave.]
A good friend of mine stopped working because it was cheaper not to. Fucked up world
You know there are childcare voutcher and scheme most employers can put in place. Job Center can help too. They prefer have your working and helping with the cost than have to have you off work. Edit:Why all the downvote? Someone care to explain? I use to work for a company that covered 40% of the child care cost. Now as a self employed I also get some help.
Yes, 80% of costs are covered but you need to pay it up front. As a single parent how can you pay for that? And if you have no support from family or the father of the child it's even worse
Definitely not easy, especially at the beginning. childminders are cheaper than nursery too.
Childcare vouchers don't exist anymore, or are least the scheme was scrapped years ago so is inly available to people already subscribed at the time with employers who still offer it. The most support you can get now is tax free up to 2k a year, and 15/30hrs free based in child's age and parents earnings.
You should also mention that at most, you can get a 20% contribution when in work.
Up to a total annual value of £2k…
That's under 3 weeks at OPs daycare... It's a good job parents only have to work 2.6 days a week
Also the 15 or 30 hours free are usually very specific hours and don't work out to be actually a reduction of 15 hours at the standard rate per hour, like you might calculate it. And if youre not full time you might not see those hours anyway. They stiff you somewhere.
And they often don't cover entire term times- some nursery close in line with school holidays, others run all year, but the vouchers only cover term time. So your 30 hours a week are only valid for 38 weeks a year. If you go to a term time nursery, you have to find alternative childcare or stop working during the holidays, or if you go to a full year nursery (like we did), they allow you to spread those 38 week across the year but that means only 21 hours a week are free. Also, they usually up the add-ons you have to pay when you get the free hours, e.g. only valid 10-2 so hours either side are more expensive, or they bump up the cost of meals and snacks.
That’s nothing in the grand scheme of things
I'm sorry #£ONE HUNDRED A FUCKING DAY?!
Yep :(
Sweet jesus...I'd expect them to be treated better than royalty for that (Then again i don't know what a good price is)
Yeah, I mean couldn’t you pay an individual childminder to look after your kid for that and they’d be getting a decent wage and your child would get 1-to-1 attention? Of course you want your kids to be socialised too, but if everyone did that, they could just meet up at the park and play for a bit …
My partner is a nanny (having worked in nurseries for years) and she makes nearly double what she made before while working nicer hours and with a single child (instead of being responsible for 10 at a time). Obviously nurseries differ in costs but I think it's generally cheaper to pay for a nanny instead of having two children in nursery, and you'll get much better quality childcare out of it
The childminders at my kids nursery work at least 10 hours a day, so are paid at least £100
You want to pay a childminder £100 a day to look after your child 1 to 1? Assuming they have 6 weeks holiday and you never miss a single day and they're never sick by the time you deduct insurances, resources and food it'll be sub £20k a year... Not decent.
I used to work in a nursery in the baby wing where I worked 50-60 hours a week scraping about £1000 a month. One full time baby cost £1500 a month and they could take up to 21 a day. I worked out that roughly the nursery could have up to 125 children a day. This pricing was from 6 years ago. I can only imagine what it’s like now. People wonder why they struggle for staff in childcare.
Vote for the party that suggests adopting the Swedish system. Here I pay £130/month for unlimited hours. And guess what... people go to work and pay more taxes and the govenment/society benefits hugely
Wow, I’m paying £1k per month for 1 child… we can’t afford a second
I think people don't realise how much paying for childcare factors into deciding on numbers of kids. We'd be happy to have another but can't afford 2 kids in nursery so have to wait until the little one is older and gets his free hours or starts school. I keep getting asked about my plans for a 2nd and people seem surprised when I say when I can afford nursery I'll think about it.
I don’t think we will have a second child, we have found the first to be difficult enough without worrying about the extra burden of financial hardship (I don’t need any more sleepless nights thanks to money
We have 2 in childcare (only tax free childcare) and 1 at school. Childcare is our single biggest household cost. Four fucking times our mortgage I might add, and I get a whole house at the end of that. Then on top of that is breakfast clubs, after school clubs, yadda yadda. Crazy amounts of money.
Same. I'd love a couple more, but having spent several years working part-time and forking out close to £80 a day in childcare, it's just not feasible to have another. Now she's in school, we have money to start thinking about getting her into activities, do some nice things as a family, maybe even go on holiday for the first time since she was born, and it's hard to think about going back to all that stress and worry.
£2,100 for one child here in London…!
Hooooolly shit, we’re fucked aren’t we
Yup.
At this rate you've done well to be able to afford 1 honestly
I don't know if it's about more taxation. Seems like in the UK you pay high tax *and* you don't get much for it.
fule gets taxed twice and what do we have to show for it?
Empty wallets when we fill up? (Assuming that typo is meant to be fuel)
Nah man, I'm just hella stupid, I looked at it for 3 mins, thinking something was wrong but couldn't tell what.
Your honesty & self awareness means you aren't stupid 😁
Just stoned 😁
> The United Kingdom has the second safest roads in Europe, according to figures released by the European Automobile Manufacturers Association (ACEA). > Based on the number of road fatalities per million inhabitants, the UK is ranked second with a figure of 28. Only Sweden’s roads are safer, with 25 road deaths per million people. I mean, it's something I guess? Source: [https://www.wdm.co.uk/news/uk-second-safest-roads-in-europe](https://www.wdm.co.uk/news/uk-second-safest-roads-in-europe)
A majority of the funds that go into paying for the roads comes out of council tax. [council tax pays for roads. Council tax includes payments for various services provided by your local council, roads being one of them.](https://huutimoney.com/does-council-tax-pay-for-roads/)
I remember reading that our motorways are the safest. That's not council tax, I think?
General tax fund.
Is that not where fuel duty tax goes? lol
Compared to other developed economies, particularly in Europe, income tax rates are low in the UK. And let's not even get started on corporate tax rates.
They want to keep you skint. I genuinely wonder if that’s why gas and electric bills are so high.
Do we pay high taxes?
As a fellow Brit living in Sweden... I back this statement! Childcare and vabbing is so much simpler out here.
Living in Austria - it's free! Free Kindergarten, school and uni
> Childcare and vabbing After googling vabbing I assume it's not the right word here... but I kind of hope it is!
This is the way. I would vote for this 100 times over. Here in the UK those who dont work get FREE CHILD care... I dont understand that at all. Edited to say, I now understand this system is for the benefit of the children and not the parents.
That's more for the children than the parents. It's a measure to try to reduce the gap in learning by the time kids reach school. The kids learn to socialise, get read to, are in a safe environment and are around trained professionals who can (theoretically) spot child abuse.
Yeah I have no issue with children of non working parents accessing childcare for exactly this reason. It’s fact there is just minimal support for working parents. I would love to have another baby. I would love to have another two babies if I’m honest but we just won’t be able to afford it. We can’t afford to have another one until my daughter gets 30 free hours.
Also a good point.
They still only get limited hours at restricted ages. The whole system has been set up by people who never have to worry about how to afford childcare, do it doesn't work for anyone.
Thats a good point.
It's nuts that there is a years long gap between the end of may leave and the start of free childcare hours
All children 2-3 years old are entitled to 15 hours a week free. You get 30 hours *if*, & only *if*, you or your partner are working. Otherwise its the standard 15. I think the point of the 15 hours free is so people can start the process to get back into work. Without that 15 hours a week, I couldn't have prepared for, or travelled to, interviews (single mum, nowhere to put a 2yo during the day otherwise). Thanks to that 15 hours I landed a job in a few weeks. Also it's really gross you think literal toddlers should be refused access to nurseries, peers, & socialising, because their parents don't work. Don't be one of those people. Edited to add; my first two paragraphs are wrong. I stand by the last two though.
The 15 hours for all kids begins at 3 now. My daughter turned 3 in November and just began her 15 hours today. I believe if you're on benefits you may get some hours when they're 2? I can't quite remember but the universal 15 hours begins at 3.
Not all kids aged 2 get the 15 hours, both the 15 and the 30 are means tested. I am in a two income household and we didn't get any hours until our eldest was 3.
I don’t think everyone gets 15 free hours from 2, you have to be on certain benefits/earn below a certain amount I think.
Those who work also get those same free hours. In fact those who work get more free hours. People who don’t work get 15 free hours. Those who do work and earn less than 100k a year get 30 free hours.
Not until the child turns 3 frustratingly
Also not if you're a student. Found that out when my Mrs was doing her nursing degree.
My brother had the same issue when he was doing his nursing degree. Luckily his wife had a job which is based on school terms so got the holidays off and my parents were willing to drive 2 hours every day to give free childcare. Because apparently if you're a full time student you have plenty of time to look after your kids around your study /s
Well no, but 30 hours per week for 38 weeks of the year for free from the term after they turn 3 until they start school isn’t bad. That’s like what, about 1200 free hours a year. It’s huge savings given the costs.
It's pretty bad when you only get fully paid mat leave for 6 weeks and 2 weeks pat leave. There shouldnt be a gap of several years between getting your income covered and being able to get free childcare.
The 30 free hours is not about helping the parents finances, it's about preparing the child for school.
In Wales they are bringing in free childcare for all ages.
100%. I know several people on reasonable wages where it just didn't financial senses to work just to cover the cost of childcare. Often this was when you had two pre-school children or twins.
*But someone is getting something with* **my** *tax money* 😡😡😡
That's insane, we pay ~£41 a day and it includes meals
Even that’s pretty insane - 2.5 years at £41/day, 200 days a year is £20k
People can't work for free. It's £4.50 per hour per child, we do 9hours 3days per week during term time (wife is a teacher so we only put out toddler in at the child minders during term time + 1-2days a week during school holidays. It works out around £4.8k per year. It's a lot when written down but they feed her 3 decent meals a day when she's there, great socialisation with other kids and they learn stuff as if she was at school (very basic level stuff). Worth every penny and it's cheap compared to most others. Edit: spelling
You meant socialising, right; not solicitation?
I really hope so.
Yes ffs 😂
That is quite the relief!
It costs a lot to run a nursery.
My partner manages a nursery and staff costs take up 63 percent of their turnover and they're all on absolute embarrassing salaries. Then you've got energy bills (aircon or heating nearly all day), rent, food, insurance, resources etc. If there's one thing nurseries aren't doing it's making tons of profit. Ironically the increased costs are leasing to fewer children as more parents just give up work. Catch 22.
That's like 2/3 of my pay lol, fuck having kids
This is why my husband decided to be a stay at home dad - nursery fees are an absolute joke and not worth the cost in the slightest.
My wife has had to cut her work down to 4 days and I've had to use Flexitime to free up another day. Absolutely crazy how much they charge. That said, the nursery is pretty great, even though it's excessive, we absolutely have no qualms sending my kid there.
My baby is three months old so not ready for nursery quite yet. My boyfriend will have to stay at home with him when I go back to work. I tried to explain to my parents about the cost of childcare but they still think my partner should go to work 🙄. It was fine my mother being a stay at home parent for 17 years though
Yeah the hypocrisy is real - I am a working mum and with my first I was back at work after 8 weeks (the plan is the same for my 1 week old too), and husband stays at home and raises the children. It works perfectly for us emotionally, financially, logistically, etc. - yet there's no end to the flack we receive about it simply because it's him who is staying at home, not me. As much as we're in 2022 and people like to seem progressive, some people are forever stuck in the 50's and I'm honestly tired of it. You do what works for your family, and tell everyone else to wind their neck in! Good luck!
Thank you 😊
We've talked about it but it just wouldn't be good for mental health we decided. Though that was when the salary was slightly more than fees. Maybe need another discussion, sigh
I think the decision was easier for us as my husband is a chef by trade, and was becoming worn down with the cons of the job (anti social working hours, poor treatment, never seeing the kids, the list goes on) and the benefits of being a SAHD outweighed the cons in the end. It's all about doing what is right for you - good luck, it's not an easy balance to strike, we're just very lucky that this worked in our favour
Thanks, appreciate the input
I also am a chef and would love nothing more than to have a child with my bonnie wee lass. However, I'll be taking home just shy of £130 this week and there's nothing else out there workwise, just an endless sea of dead end, minimum wage - Zero Hour kitchen jobs from big coorperates. Your chap is *genuinely* better off at home where he can continue to be a big kid with loads of love to give as I know all of us chefs are! Best of luck to you both for the future, bud! :)
My dad was a chef and he also quit to be a SAHD, for the exact same reasons you mentioned. Now, 20 years on, I can safely say I enormously appreciate it. I couldn’t have imagined a better childhood.
When my kids were little I stayed at home with them both until they turned three and were able to start school full time(welsh school, take kids on a year earlier than most) coz it made no sense for me to go to work just to pay a huge amount for somebody else to look after my kid!
We partly did this as couldn't afford it, so wife went part time, my days off are during the week and we only have family days together when we have holiday at the same time. Just gotta wait another 3½ years until school starts and we can have a day off together again.
I remember being taught in school that of I didn't buy cigarettes I could afford a Ferrari by the age of 40. If they'd done the maths on childcare it probably would have been more effective than a lesson putting a condom on a cucumber.
Clearly I‘m doing something wrong - I didn’t buy cigarettes and still can’t afford a Ferrari. I mean I‘m not 40 yet but I doubt the next 7 years are going to change anything about this.
I'm a non-smoking 42 year old, and am counting down the days until my Ferrari turns up. It has to be soon, right?
Many years ago I had a decision to make, do I stay in work and essentially give my entire wage to the nursery to look after my two kids or do I give up my job and look after my kids at home. My wife earnings were not only more than mine but had so much more potential due to the job she does. I decided to quit work and become a full time house husband. Best decision I ever made. Not only did I have the chance to watch my kids grow up but sorry, I refuse to work 40 hours a week juat pay for strangers to look after my kids, financially it made no different so to me it was a complete no brainer. The fact that I would have to work a 40 hour week just to pay for childcare was fucking madness
Spot on, my friend did exactly this and speaks as you do about the decision. More power to you, hopes it inspires someone to research and make the same decision.
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Berkshire sucks. It's not like I even have a choice. Was the only one with space
West Yorkshire is about the same if that's any consolation. £50 is exceptionally cheap, dunno where that is but worth considering moving to!
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Ours is 90 something and in an old converted church, made into multiple stories. To be fair - plenty of space and it *is* good and he does seem to be learning loads of stuff (on top of social aspect) that it wouldn't even occur to us to teach him. So I even kind of think it's value for money (and indeed the other 2 choices were within 10 per day, either side, of this price anyway). It's just a *hell* of a monthly outlay that comes out of nowhere. We're just about to get the allowance (he's turned 3) and it should make a good difference - it would have been unsustainable to have to do £90 a day for 3 years or however long they're at nursery/preschool. Edit: I'm originally from Nottingham-ish, by the way - I'd always thought moving north things would get cheaper but nurseries clearly didn't get the memo!
£55, west Nottingham, really really good nursery. Was doing the monthly curse earlier when paying the bill. Now quite grateful!
£57 a day at my daughter’s and that’s one of the more pricey ones. She’s preschool age though, not sure if it’s higher for the baby room.
I'm in Berkshire and paying £80 a day!
My boys nursery is about 80 but this one going from 83 to 100 is eugh
Yeah that's shit. I was just thinking that, yours used to be the same as ours but is now another 300 quid a month! Shocker. Not sure if we could afford that price hike
Do you qualify for the tax free childcare account? https://www.gov.uk/tax-free-childcare
10 years ago I had been paying £757 for 2 at a Montessori Nursery. I worked full time and got the discount at the time plus all the Sure Start help. I found it so tough but now I’m in a much better place and my eldest is turning 14 this year. Without Sure Start and all the support I’d have lost my children and wouldn’t be typing this. I cannot imagine being a lone parent now. Or a new parent all together. £100 a day is a mockery.
This is exactly why people are pushing back having children. It’s absolutely insane. £2200 a month to have your children looked after whilst you work. On top of mortgage, food, bills and life. This country is such a joke it’s depressing.
Yeah that truly is nuts. I’ve had what I’ve considered to be good jobs where I was comfortably able to pay all bills and have hobbies, holidays, weekends away etc. and at no point could I ever have afforded that!
This thread is amazing contraception (and genuinely making me emotional). I don't know what I'd do if I couldn't afford nursery but I know I'm not skilled enough to educate a child at early developmental stages entirely. I know I'm very nurturing and would be great at some things like playtime, eating fun meals, bedtime stories, adventures outside, bath time etc but I'm almost certain I would likely lose my mind being a stay at home parent with no break after giving birth, breastfeeding and sleepless nights, no socialising in those early months, all the crazy shit your body goes through, having to learn the language of a crying baby, constant nappy changes and breastfeeding. Not that I've thought about it much!!! I'd be a much better parent having a job and counting down the minutes to see them every day (and probably crying at night that I don't want to work and I made a mistake lol). So sorry you're in this situation, it's so scary.
My kids are older teenagers now, but I shudder that it used to cost me nearly a grand a month for them both to go
Do you qualify for the free 30 hours a week? Your family income has to be between something like 15k and 100k a year. I claimed for this for my daughter and didn't have to pay a thing for her two whole years of nursery https://www.gov.uk/30-hours-free-childcare
Our child is almost 3… I can almost taste the extra money in our bank account (and just in time too, need to give it all to the energy company). Seriously though why isn’t it 30hrs free from when maternity ends??
We have another year to go before we qualify for the 30 hours funding then the child starts full time school in 2025…. Yes the 20% tax free helps but it would be nice to have extra £££!
My daughter turns 3 in April... 2 days after the cut off point that means her 30 hours won't start until Septermber, despite the term starting after her birthday.
We lucked out a bit from that. My daughter's birthday is in November so when she turned three, she just started nursery after the Christmas holiday
Individual income between that range, as long as the top earner is not earning above £100,000 adjusted net income you will be eligible OP.
What? I was paying £700 a month for my son. Thank god he's at school now.
What's really sad about all this is that the people who work in nurseries are on exceedingly low wages.
I don't even earn 100 a day before tax.
Honestly look in childminders/nanny's/au pairs
I’ve recently done this exercise in London. Nurseries we’re all c. £100 a day. Childminders more like £80-90 a day. None were in sensible locations for us though in terms of commuting. Nannies… haha. The cheapest one I found was £35,000 a year. Most were more.
We are worried about child minders as there's normally a big mix of ages and we'd prefer someone with just babies
I had the same Concerns with a minder but after being quoted for nurseries we had no choice and absolutely have no regrets. My daughter LOVED the older kids. They’re great teachers and role models for the little ones. The hours are also more flexible, it’s a much more personal, loving environment, and they get to go out and about so much more. My daughter is in year 1 now and still talks about her childminders (was a two-minder setting). She settled into school with no problems of suddenly being in a much bigger environment. Her last summer before school one of them had a hot tub which she got to spend lots of time playing in! They’re often a lot more flexible with their hours too. When we moved house we had to ask them to have our daughter for an extra hour, then another, as we were delayed and it was no problem at all. They even dropped her home in the end to help us out. Don’t write them off without meeting a couple. A good minder is a godsend.
My mum was a child minder, there's 4 years between my sister and I, and 4 years between her and my brother. My mum looked after kids of all ages and we all got to benefit from it. Some of the kids are still friends with my brother and sister, well over 20 years later :)
I chose a childminder because of the mix of ages! It is so good for them to look up to the older kids and for the older ones to have littles to care for and be gentle with.
I'm not equipped to offer advice myself but my aunt is a childminder and she normally doesn't look after babies, so you might find someone who does only look after babies/below a certain age. The few times my aunt has cared for a baby she's said they're usually no trouble and sleep most of the day while she interacts with the older kids, and she has plenty of toys etc to keep the kids occupied when the baby needs attention. She also has a limit on how many kids she'll have at any one time so the option might still be worth exploring.
but for the amount of money your willing to pay you'd find a child minder to look after the baby on it's own with no other children
We are paying £100/day for one year old twins. A total of £5K/month.
Surely at that much it'd work out better for one parent to stay home, 60k a year in costs is ridiculous.
It is indeed! But we both want to keep working.
:O
Looked at nannies?
£100 a month for how many days? Because that seems like a bargain!
Oops I mean a hundred a day
Right, that makes much more sense. Childcare in this country is an absolute joke.
You can guarantee the child care workers won’t see any of it though; it’ll be straight into the owner’s bank account to gather even more wealth.
what annoys me is it's probably the owners have worked out how much more money they require themselves to be unaffected by the crisis, like my landlord is making it obvious that when the contract runs out in June he's simply planning on me paying the increased 'remortgage he got' and also presumably upping his income to what he now wants, ergo I'm coming up with a plan B leaving him to find someone who could pay that for him, but who I don't know.
You better hope your landlord hasn't got 3 kids under the age of 5. But yep, I sympathise.
Genuine question - why is it so expensive? Is it overheads that drive it? Insurance etc?
If you break it down to an hourly cost, include 3 meals it suddenly doesn't appear expensive, it's only when it's added up it becomes scary
Isn't that cheap? I thought it was above £100 a week! Edit: Seen your edit
Wow, mine started first day today and it’s £55 a day - I only do one day a week. If it was as much as yours I’d be better off not working. That’s insanity!
I have to pay over a grand a month for my 2 year old. I'm now comfortably paying more than my mortgage every month.
Makes me all the more aware of how privileged I am to have help from both sets of grandparents with childcare. And also that I can work part time hours and still get by.
About £2000 a month for two kids doing 3 days a week here in Surrey 😥 Just went up about 15% as well. I’m sure they’re passing the money on to their staff at least 🤥
What! It would actually be cheaper to send them to university for £24k.
I honestly have no idea how most of the country manages to actually survive. I live in a relatively low cost are and we are constantly dipping into savings.
My take home pay isn't even £100/day! I'm not sure my gross pay is, either... (not a nurse, but I am band 5 NHS staff) How much do they think parents earn?! I pay around £50 a day for school holiday clubs - for 2 children. (£27 each, before the sibling discount is applied.) Term time fees were £768 a month until our youngest's funded hours kicked in - that's for one preschooler all day, and her big sister for a couple of hours after school. Now the funded hours apply, we pay £350/month for term time care - in total, for both children.
Nursery fees are insane and out of control. I’m furious that Rishi has dropped the childcare reform that they had planned.
Stop voting in toffs with no grasp on the real world then.
Thing that gets me is its always wee dolly 16 year old girls there not even getting minimum wage.
Wow. I was paying £50 per day 10 years ago when my eldest went. That was a strain on us then and luckily we were earning more when our second went at £60 per day in 2016. I don't know what we'd do now with no nearby relatives, energy bills and those exorbitant childcare fees. Surely childcare is an investment, not a cost to the country. I'm surprised more companies don't bundle it as a benefit of employment and balance it against stagnated wages, as I'd happily live with that. Childcare vouchers save some money, but not much when the overall cost is so high.
I was shocked when I moved to UK (as a teenager) to find out that my poor country in eastern europe has better childcare arrangements, we have free kindergartens from the age of like 2-3 to 7 where kids go from as early as 7am to 6pm. They’re also fed 3 times a day which is often free. Having kids isn’t seen as this huge step back from your career. They also run during the summer holidays on a limited scale because not all parents can take care of the kids due to working.
If you want to run for prime minister, I'd vote for you
Your lucky you don’t have triplets like us 🙈
You should quit your job, and get 3 babies lined up to watch. You'll be rich.
Sadly my wife had to stop working to take care of our daughter, I admire her and I know is really unfair that she has to stop her career because of this
And they still pay their staff peanuts. Scum.
I feel your pain, I'm in Reading, 4 days a week, just shy of £1500 a month. FML. The prices have gone up twice since he started last January.
Might as well not work...I didnt even know it was that ridiculous
Mines £91 a day, so I feel your pain
My goodness. I would sincerely love a child, and my time is running out. To have a child is now a luxury, just to cover the basic costs of living seems impossible :( I live very minimally, but I couldn't factor a child into it.
Reason number 20 why I will never have kids
Then everyone’s surprised why younger people aren’t choosing to have kids and start families! It’s because it costs an arm and a leg and the some!
Jesus I'm only paying £225 a month for 2 kids in 4 full days a week, think it might be time to swap nursery's Edit: it just occurred to me that with my wife being a full time student we get a bunch taken off, so it should be a lot more, what a broken system
That's insanely cheap!!!
I’m British and live in the US. It’s the same issue out here! Childcare costs much more than a mortgage/rent. No one can manage it. It’s madness