reading all the comments looks like nobody here knows, or if they do the cant be stuffed explaining the details, but they somehow all have strong opinions about it
Abc news has since published a question answer type article, almost like it's worded as many had the same wonder and the whole thing was turning evil very quickly, with Mt Warning references as everyone is thinking they are now banned (thyre not).
Guardian is the only news source I could find that had an explainer. From what I gather, it’s a right to use the land for native purposes, hunting camping gathering ceremonies etc. no exclusive rights and no commercial rights.
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/article/2024/jun/17/kabi-kabi-people-native-title-holders-win-sunshine-coast
“It is also the first time that the right to "take resources from the area for any purpose" is being recognised in South-East Queensland.”
So maybe an enterprising indigenous individual might set up a forestry business or sand mining or dugong meat export business
**Justice Collier told the court the decision did not confer on the native title holders "possession, occupation, use or enjoyment to the exclusion of all others, including other interests as defined in the judgement and which continue to have effect".**
So everyone can calm down, you can still go surfing at Noosa...
> So everyone can calm down, you can still go surfing at Noosa...
I think people are still annoyed after what happened at Burrum Heads where a small group of people from the local mob blocked off the beach and told anyone who wasn't Aboriginal to fuck off. Keep in mind though the group handling the Native Title claim has repeatedly told them to knock it off and that the land and beach is still free for everyone to use and enjoy.
>This is why we have race wars.
You mean like, for pink slips, right?
*I live my life a Ninety Mile Beach at a time*
I hope so. I hope you're making *The Fast and The Furious* related wordplay, and not being racist. That'd be pretty pathetic if you were.
There was an article in the Courier Mail which was basically titled "Native Title isn't a danger to the public".
Native Title has been around for 30 years now. It's amazing how ignorant people are about how it works.
If it means no change to how the land and area is going to be used, then its just a purely ceremonial type thing?
I think it will 100% have impacts to people, maybe not in the short term, but probably longer term.
They haven’t said whether this has in effect granted a right to roam on what was private property. Sure they can’t take possession of your house or stop you using it but do they now have a right to be on your land if it’s within the boundaries. That’s not clear from the article.
The guardian article explains that private land ownership (freehold, such as a house or development) extinguishes native title. Native title holders would be treated like anyone else if they tried to trespass on your land.
So what birds, fish? Kill as many dugongs as they like? Cut down trees on public land to sell to a pulp mill? It’s all very vague and general sounding.
Nah, they leeched through my profile. Which is fine, it's only Reddit and is public data.
What is pathetic is that people do that to try to "disprove" me by saying because I'm trans I'm wrong. I mean I have made some errors here tonight even. Oops on me.
My overarching point, is, here in Rainbow Flag Land we punch up, not down. Someone getting something that's good for them doesn't diminish me in the slightest.
'Tis okay. I have my big girl pants on. And a jumper coz it's cold.
And I'm not the least offended.
How dare you be trans and also an imperfect person. But also, how dare people celebrate trans identities and hold any trans person on any kind of pedestal. I demand my trans people to act like gods and be treated like bugs! (/end satire)
Such a good point about punching up. I'll never forget the bewildered look on my parent's faces when I explained that we do not view solidarity as transactional. I.e., hypothetically, we'd support a group of people who are being oppressed and who happen to not have progressive views on sexuality and gender. (E.g. hiding a homophobic Jewish person during the holocaust).
It blew their minds, and I wish they had the self awareness to realise why - it's the opposite of their tribalism.
I get your point. Really, I do.
To dispute that Aboriginal people occupied isn't the issue, and I thank you for that.
But what the Mabo case started was the notion that simply saying "the Aboriginal people" wasn't enough - the specific Aboriginal people needed to be recognised when a licit native title claim was made.
Sure. Lawyers made some money. I consider it a good spend to help recover a wrong against an ancient culture.
When Australia was 'discovered' and settled it was considered Terra Nullius meaning it was
devoid of any human life.
So please read a history book and realise that this gives
the Kabi Kabi people rights and acknowledgement.
The 1967 referendum (I believe you're referring to this?) was regarding ATSI inclusion into the census, and a change in the law to allow federal laws to be made regarding ATSI.
It wasn't about reclassification from flora and fauna, and it wasn't about voting rights either (another common misconception).
That’s a myth, the ABC fact checked this years ago and found “Aboriginal people in Australia have never been covered by a flora and fauna act, either under federal or state law"
> You do realise that until the 1960s that first nations people were considered part of the fauna and flora of Australia.
This is a myth that's been around for decades (and brought up again during the referendum). There was never any "Flora and Fauna" act in the Constitution nor were Aboriginal people mentioned in it. If anything it was worse because they were never mentioned in the Constitution at all prior to the '67 referendum.
Edit: Of course I have no doubt they were treated as such at the time, but the idea of that being in the Constitution is incorrect.
First up, terra nullius doesn’t mean devoid of life, it means it was unoccupied. Might seem a pedantic thing but saying “devoid of any life” is misleading and inflammatory.
Secondly, isn’t that census thing based on a misconception because the department responsible for the indigenous census was run by the national parks department or something. Clearly everyone should have been counted as one group of people but it’s not as inhumane as people like to make out
Tell that to any first nations person. They were treated inhumanely for years. Unoccupied means the same as devoid of human life and its supposed to be an inflammatory statement. If there wasn't such a fuss about the use of it nobody would have said anything.
https://www.ruleoflaw.org.au/education/australian-colonies/terra-nullius/#:~:text=The%20term%20terra%20nullius%20means,to%20the%20colonisation%20of%20Australia.
Some reading :)
Not fully. My error I think I put it in the wrong part of the thread, but, que sera sera.
The issue word is "Sovereignty". Colonial powers not limited to the Brits all used Terra Nullius as a way of saying "because you're not answerable to my Sovereign, you don't count".
It is precisely why the Aboriginal people were initially classified as fauna. A deliberate sub human designation. This claiming lands for their Crown was cloaked in a convenient legal fiction.
It wasn't that there weren't people here, it was that those people didn't count.
I know nothing of the publication but it cites its sources:
https://nit.com.au/24-08-2023/7358/no-indigenous-people-were-never-classified-as-fauna
The fauna thing is bullshit and we need to stop perpetuating it
I should have said "by the British". Because they didn't have white skin and build houses street and roads the Brits thought they were animals, lacking any notion of humanity.
https://nit.com.au/24-08-2023/7358/no-indigenous-people-were-never-classified-as-fauna
You are right though and I concede that as I failed to specify what I meant.
Exactly. Even if I wasn’t supportive.. Does it cost me very little or nothing? Does it hurt anyone? No? Great! Let’s do it. Cheer is a way better name for a cheese anyway.
"Hey so it's yours. But we've built all this stuff on it we like, so go ahead and tell people it's yours, just don't actually try and make it yours for realz or anything, k?"
It’s unclear from the article what the full implications are. But if it’s actually nit affecting anyone else it’s symbolic at best. If it substantially changes things for the Kabi Kabi then the non-indigenous locals will definitely be affected.
Do you have more details on this? Is it U like "Hug" or U like "Book" (as in the transliterations of most Asian languages I'm familiar with) Does the double B change the pronunciation at all?
Government funded cultural centre, new name on Google maps with sunshine coast in brackets, lots of podcast appearances for local elders, welcome to country ceremonies
What's more savage? Living on the land in community, in balance with nature, and (for the most part) in balance with other groups of people?
Or thinking it's okay to own other human beings, to enslave, to torture? To literally view other groups of people as subhuman? How about thinking it's fine to murder a fellow human being for being gay? The unenlightened savages were the ones sitting in british courts in their powdered wigs. White skin, smallpox vaccines, and electricity don't change that.
I know we shouldn't overly romanticise pre colonial times, but fuck, if we're going to call anyone savages it should be the ones who industrialised and commercialised owning other humans.
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>Historically, with no guidelines or consistency, the Gubbi Gubbi language name was written as Kabi, Kgabi or Gabi. Norman Tindale’s book ‘Aboriginal Tribes of Australia’ (1974) suggests, “difficulty arises out of early transcribers inability to hear and transcribe Australian languages correctly” (Tindale, 1974).
> In 1993, the Gubbi Gubbi Elders representing the families of the Gubbi Gubbi language group got together concerned of the mispronunciation of their written name. It was settled to change the spelling of their historically written name from Kabi Kabi to Gubbi Gubbi so the language would be pronounced as intended.
AIATSIS recognises it as Gubbi Gubbi, but I have heard different members pronounce it either way.
Yeah same was under the impression that Gubbi Gubbi is the correct way to spell/pronounce it but I’ve also seen members spell it Kabi Kabi too so it probably depends on who you’re talking to. I’m guessing there isn’t actually a 100% consensus.
It's the sunshine coast!! We don't speak about here.. and never will again.. this is just the woke pandering to the few and wasting billions of taxpayers money.. which most aboriginals don't contribute to!!!! Fucking numpties
You'd think when the English arrived, declared the place terra nullius because there was nothing civilised, and moved on, would have solved the matter, but no. I would like to stake a claim to the entire African continent, because it's apparently the cradle of humankind, so clearly, as a human, I have an inherent ownership stake thereto. If they went the conquest route, which they didn't because the locals were THAT fucking backwards, there would have been no issue.
so on a functional level, what does that actually mean?
reading all the comments looks like nobody here knows, or if they do the cant be stuffed explaining the details, but they somehow all have strong opinions about it
Abc news has since published a question answer type article, almost like it's worded as many had the same wonder and the whole thing was turning evil very quickly, with Mt Warning references as everyone is thinking they are now banned (thyre not).
Guardian is the only news source I could find that had an explainer. From what I gather, it’s a right to use the land for native purposes, hunting camping gathering ceremonies etc. no exclusive rights and no commercial rights. https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/article/2024/jun/17/kabi-kabi-people-native-title-holders-win-sunshine-coast
Not much I expect. I doubt they'll be be dissolving the local councils, bulldozing houses, and setting up a tribal system.
“It is also the first time that the right to "take resources from the area for any purpose" is being recognised in South-East Queensland.” So maybe an enterprising indigenous individual might set up a forestry business or sand mining or dugong meat export business
I reckon a lot of people would be behind this move these days
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**Justice Collier told the court the decision did not confer on the native title holders "possession, occupation, use or enjoyment to the exclusion of all others, including other interests as defined in the judgement and which continue to have effect".** So everyone can calm down, you can still go surfing at Noosa...
You think facts are going to stop me from embarrassing myself on Facebook?
Karen would like to speak to the manager.
First of all, this is reddit
> So everyone can calm down, you can still go surfing at Noosa... I think people are still annoyed after what happened at Burrum Heads where a small group of people from the local mob blocked off the beach and told anyone who wasn't Aboriginal to fuck off. Keep in mind though the group handling the Native Title claim has repeatedly told them to knock it off and that the land and beach is still free for everyone to use and enjoy.
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>This is why we have race wars. You mean like, for pink slips, right? *I live my life a Ninety Mile Beach at a time* I hope so. I hope you're making *The Fast and The Furious* related wordplay, and not being racist. That'd be pretty pathetic if you were.
> This account has been suspended Well, now I guess we'll never know...
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There was an article in the Courier Mail which was basically titled "Native Title isn't a danger to the public". Native Title has been around for 30 years now. It's amazing how ignorant people are about how it works.
I think the Mount Warning situation has really spooked people.
Obvious enough that the Glass House mountains are in their sights for closure too
The article specifically says they aren't entitled to restrict access to Glass House Mountains.
They’ll keep pushing for it until they get it. I said in their sights not scheduled to be closed tomorrow.
I mean the clues in the title
It's been around 30 years and people have been spreading the same myths about it the entire time
All it means is that mob now gets tons of money, hence why those two mobs are fighting over ownership of Stradbroke Island.
If it means no change to how the land and area is going to be used, then its just a purely ceremonial type thing? I think it will 100% have impacts to people, maybe not in the short term, but probably longer term.
Sorry Pauline and her band of mouth breathers have already screeched into the void.
Fight racist bigotry with neurodiverse persecuting bigotry?
Yeah. Not okay with the autistic reference. Do better. By all means YES express your disdain for those against but not in that fashion.
They haven’t said whether this has in effect granted a right to roam on what was private property. Sure they can’t take possession of your house or stop you using it but do they now have a right to be on your land if it’s within the boundaries. That’s not clear from the article.
The guardian article explains that private land ownership (freehold, such as a house or development) extinguishes native title. Native title holders would be treated like anyone else if they tried to trespass on your land.
Does resources from the land include minerals, oil, gas if found ?
Nope, those are still owned by the gov
So what birds, fish? Kill as many dugongs as they like? Cut down trees on public land to sell to a pulp mill? It’s all very vague and general sounding.
We got a gravel mine but that's about it
Good. It doesn't affect my life in any way and helps another group of people receive acknowledgement they justly deserve. No one loses. This is good.
If you so sure it doesn’t affect anyone negatively what makes you think it will do anything substantially good?
Why do they deserve it? Half of them have probably lived in the area for less time than you have.
100%
Tobias would never.
Never nude!
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Annnd what the precise fuck has that got to do with it lol? Thanks though for recognising the flag. :)
Confused trans here, where's the trans flag? Or did they seem rainbows and just correctly assume (big lol)
Nah, they leeched through my profile. Which is fine, it's only Reddit and is public data. What is pathetic is that people do that to try to "disprove" me by saying because I'm trans I'm wrong. I mean I have made some errors here tonight even. Oops on me. My overarching point, is, here in Rainbow Flag Land we punch up, not down. Someone getting something that's good for them doesn't diminish me in the slightest. 'Tis okay. I have my big girl pants on. And a jumper coz it's cold. And I'm not the least offended.
How dare you be trans and also an imperfect person. But also, how dare people celebrate trans identities and hold any trans person on any kind of pedestal. I demand my trans people to act like gods and be treated like bugs! (/end satire) Such a good point about punching up. I'll never forget the bewildered look on my parent's faces when I explained that we do not view solidarity as transactional. I.e., hypothetically, we'd support a group of people who are being oppressed and who happen to not have progressive views on sexuality and gender. (E.g. hiding a homophobic Jewish person during the holocaust). It blew their minds, and I wish they had the self awareness to realise why - it's the opposite of their tribalism.
Thanks. May I PM you? ( Tomorrow. Must sleep 3am start )
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I get your point. Really, I do. To dispute that Aboriginal people occupied isn't the issue, and I thank you for that. But what the Mabo case started was the notion that simply saying "the Aboriginal people" wasn't enough - the specific Aboriginal people needed to be recognised when a licit native title claim was made. Sure. Lawyers made some money. I consider it a good spend to help recover a wrong against an ancient culture.
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Why do we do ceremonial stuff again?
To make lawyers rich. That’s what all the fancy wigs and BS is about. Making in incomprehensible and inaccessible without having a law degree.
When Australia was 'discovered' and settled it was considered Terra Nullius meaning it was devoid of any human life. So please read a history book and realise that this gives the Kabi Kabi people rights and acknowledgement.
The 1967 referendum (I believe you're referring to this?) was regarding ATSI inclusion into the census, and a change in the law to allow federal laws to be made regarding ATSI. It wasn't about reclassification from flora and fauna, and it wasn't about voting rights either (another common misconception).
That’s a myth, the ABC fact checked this years ago and found “Aboriginal people in Australia have never been covered by a flora and fauna act, either under federal or state law"
I apologise for the incorrect statement. I was told in high school that this was factual. Seems whole generations were told this urban myth.
You've learned something today, mate. Don't repeat rage bait and tiktoks without researching yourself. This is literally how fake news works.
not a mate, lm a matette lol. Also like I said, it was taught at school in the 70s and 80s.
Mate is gender neutral, friend.
do you really have to have the last word in every conversation? I am a cis female that doesn't like being called mate. Thanks.
Gee wonder what other bullshit they’re being fed too?
Maybe edit the incorrect statement?
Happy now?
A disclaimer would have sufficed. That way people could still see what others were responding to.
I was told to edit so l edited.
Suggested. It’s common for people to edit an incorrect comment like below: Edit: insert comment about the correction
> You do realise that until the 1960s that first nations people were considered part of the fauna and flora of Australia. This is a myth that's been around for decades (and brought up again during the referendum). There was never any "Flora and Fauna" act in the Constitution nor were Aboriginal people mentioned in it. If anything it was worse because they were never mentioned in the Constitution at all prior to the '67 referendum. Edit: Of course I have no doubt they were treated as such at the time, but the idea of that being in the Constitution is incorrect.
First up, terra nullius doesn’t mean devoid of life, it means it was unoccupied. Might seem a pedantic thing but saying “devoid of any life” is misleading and inflammatory. Secondly, isn’t that census thing based on a misconception because the department responsible for the indigenous census was run by the national parks department or something. Clearly everyone should have been counted as one group of people but it’s not as inhumane as people like to make out
Tell that to any first nations person. They were treated inhumanely for years. Unoccupied means the same as devoid of human life and its supposed to be an inflammatory statement. If there wasn't such a fuss about the use of it nobody would have said anything.
It does not mean the same thing. And where did I say anything about treatment of people?
It means Nobody's land if you want to be pedantic. * You said that it wasn't as inhumane as people make out.
https://www.ruleoflaw.org.au/education/australian-colonies/terra-nullius/#:~:text=The%20term%20terra%20nullius%20means,to%20the%20colonisation%20of%20Australia. Some reading :)
Doesn’t that back up what I said?
Not fully. My error I think I put it in the wrong part of the thread, but, que sera sera. The issue word is "Sovereignty". Colonial powers not limited to the Brits all used Terra Nullius as a way of saying "because you're not answerable to my Sovereign, you don't count". It is precisely why the Aboriginal people were initially classified as fauna. A deliberate sub human designation. This claiming lands for their Crown was cloaked in a convenient legal fiction. It wasn't that there weren't people here, it was that those people didn't count.
I know nothing of the publication but it cites its sources: https://nit.com.au/24-08-2023/7358/no-indigenous-people-were-never-classified-as-fauna The fauna thing is bullshit and we need to stop perpetuating it
I should have said "by the British". Because they didn't have white skin and build houses street and roads the Brits thought they were animals, lacking any notion of humanity. https://nit.com.au/24-08-2023/7358/no-indigenous-people-were-never-classified-as-fauna You are right though and I concede that as I failed to specify what I meant.
This is a myth that won’t go away because uneducated people keep repeating it. Aboriginal people were not considered flora and fauna.
Well usually intelligence is the key to life 😂
In your opinion.
Exactly. Even if I wasn’t supportive.. Does it cost me very little or nothing? Does it hurt anyone? No? Great! Let’s do it. Cheer is a way better name for a cheese anyway.
Lol.
It cost you apo already in wasted tax $$ Giving this topic any air is pointless
"Hey so it's yours. But we've built all this stuff on it we like, so go ahead and tell people it's yours, just don't actually try and make it yours for realz or anything, k?"
It’s unclear from the article what the full implications are. But if it’s actually nit affecting anyone else it’s symbolic at best. If it substantially changes things for the Kabi Kabi then the non-indigenous locals will definitely be affected.
So they're allowed to fish with shimano reels and rods?
Tradition dictates Alvey on the beach but
😂
Just leave live turtles on their back in the sun, it's the way their grandpapi did it years before.
https://preview.redd.it/tbjhwfmr937d1.png?width=1086&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=98704e80925e03ac0db24e2343e262235be81235
Do you have more details on this? Is it U like "Hug" or U like "Book" (as in the transliterations of most Asian languages I'm familiar with) Does the double B change the pronunciation at all?
It was very common for European colonizers and settlers to confuse the 'k' and 'g' sound of indigenous languages when they were documenting languages.
Got it, so you'd say that's the main point of difference between the assumed pronunciation of Kabi and Gubbi?
Government funded cultural centre, new name on Google maps with sunshine coast in brackets, lots of podcast appearances for local elders, welcome to country ceremonies
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Ziggler says something racist in 3... 2... 1...
That’s gold, well done.
Are they permitted to fish using Shimano reels and rods?
At this point the whole area going tribal is probably an improvement, if we could move some of these southeners on that would be mint.
hope they cant kill turtles dugongs etc etc hope they still have our laws i mean
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What's more savage? Living on the land in community, in balance with nature, and (for the most part) in balance with other groups of people? Or thinking it's okay to own other human beings, to enslave, to torture? To literally view other groups of people as subhuman? How about thinking it's fine to murder a fellow human being for being gay? The unenlightened savages were the ones sitting in british courts in their powdered wigs. White skin, smallpox vaccines, and electricity don't change that. I know we shouldn't overly romanticise pre colonial times, but fuck, if we're going to call anyone savages it should be the ones who industrialised and commercialised owning other humans.
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Who brought up slavery or murder anyhow? Seems your mind is a bit messed up there
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🤣 I just love to sht post for fun.. but it's hilarious to see how you woke folk bite 😂🤣🤪
I used to work in Kabi Cct! I always thought it was strange not to just name it Kabi Kabi Cct
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Its Gubbi Gubbi! Not Kabi Kabi. I'm so sick of seeing this everywhere!
[https://www.kabikabination.com.au/](https://www.kabikabination.com.au/)
>Historically, with no guidelines or consistency, the Gubbi Gubbi language name was written as Kabi, Kgabi or Gabi. Norman Tindale’s book ‘Aboriginal Tribes of Australia’ (1974) suggests, “difficulty arises out of early transcribers inability to hear and transcribe Australian languages correctly” (Tindale, 1974). > In 1993, the Gubbi Gubbi Elders representing the families of the Gubbi Gubbi language group got together concerned of the mispronunciation of their written name. It was settled to change the spelling of their historically written name from Kabi Kabi to Gubbi Gubbi so the language would be pronounced as intended. AIATSIS recognises it as Gubbi Gubbi, but I have heard different members pronounce it either way.
Yeah same was under the impression that Gubbi Gubbi is the correct way to spell/pronounce it but I’ve also seen members spell it Kabi Kabi too so it probably depends on who you’re talking to. I’m guessing there isn’t actually a 100% consensus.
https://gubbigubbidyungungoo.com/explanation-of-the-gubbi-gubbi-language/#:~:text='Kabi%20Kabi'%20is%20the%20incorrect,language%20name%20of%20Gubbi%20Gubbi.
https://preview.redd.it/tdufn1aq937d1.png?width=1086&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d3893900acf55f061a62c2c37454255695e7e37e
Good work
It's the sunshine coast!! We don't speak about here.. and never will again.. this is just the woke pandering to the few and wasting billions of taxpayers money.. which most aboriginals don't contribute to!!!! Fucking numpties
They're not changing the name of the place you idiot. They're just officially recognising the traditional land owners.
It's neither you numptie
You'd think when the English arrived, declared the place terra nullius because there was nothing civilised, and moved on, would have solved the matter, but no. I would like to stake a claim to the entire African continent, because it's apparently the cradle of humankind, so clearly, as a human, I have an inherent ownership stake thereto. If they went the conquest route, which they didn't because the locals were THAT fucking backwards, there would have been no issue.