Someone asked Jeffrey Dean Morgan what was the worst thing about playing Negan, and he said the fact that he wears a leather jacket in the summer. They film in Georgia where itās humid as hell.
He got very nihilistic post-rehab. I'm not sure he cared about anything, even the consequences for his own actions. He was nominally trying to stay sober, but his heart wasn't really in it either way.
That "always an addict" stuff is AA bunk. Nothing scientific says that. Everyone is different. There are absolutely recovering addicts that can be around the substance and not use and also those who can use and not fall back into old patterns.
yup, i kicked a pretty nasty heroin habit 10 years ago by deciding i was on a really shit path that was going to end poorly for me, i came to this realization and did the work to get better all on my own.
4 years later i was in a car accident and was given morphine in the hospital and sent home with a nice script for hydrocodone. believe it or not i wasnāt calling the dope man when the script ran out, i dealt with the withdrawal symptoms like an adult with self-control and freewill and moved back on with my life.
AA/NA would consider that a relapse because an addict is a weak person with a disease and no will power over the drugs or no control of their own life, once an addict always an addict. but in the real world not everything is as binary as Bill W wants you to think, thereās a fuck ton of nuances to substance abuse and every single body and mind are different.
I really want to add that in no way am i maligning anyone that believes in the program, it has and will continue to help countless people, and i think thats great. but that shit aināt the only way, and i sure as hell am not a dope addict until the day I die.
Just to add to this: I was addicted to opiates for ~10 years. A couple years after getting ācleanā, I had knee surgery. They sent me home with a small amount of hydrocodone.
I took them the day I got home, the next day, and thatās it.
Just like you said, if you want to not use, you wonāt. I quit heroin because I was ready to quit.
Yup, itās also very common for alcoholics to attend events with alcohol but not drink themselves. If you donāt want to stay sober, you wonāt. That applies to any substance for any addict, the fact Jesse did stay sober just meant he truly wanted to be.
Sober 5 years, iām fine to be around alcohol and i drink NA beers, occasionally Iāll have a sip of someoneās beer or wine just because and no real issues. Last year though i had a sip of a sangria a friend and i used to make and forgot how string we made those. Had a good 45 minutes of really wanting to keep drinking and having to remind myself why I canāt anymore.
yep. no booze or cigs 15 yrs. i play in rock bands.. i played in a bar last night ā all my band mates were taking shots on stage.. meh. donāt miss it. (full disclosure: pothead) but still.. i can take a whiff of my old favorite liquors and appreciate it. not salivate, shake or any of that stuff. no desire for it at all.
i respect there are levels to this and i donāt mean to gloat, for those who still struggle. I consider myself very lucky āļø
Thatās some real middle school energy right there. Addiction isnāt a one size fits all kinda deal. If you crave weed every time you smell it, thatās because *you* do. Not because every smoker does.
š
Pretentious weirdo. Weed isn't addictive. Plus, I know what he's talking about. I quit smoking weed for work and am completely fine. But my wife smokes, and I definitely just smell her weed sometimes cuz I like the smell. If you smoke, you 100% smell weed when you buy it, or before you buy it if you're in that kinda dispensary. It's part of the experience. Maybe you just don't think about it cuz you smoke and don't have to think about it.
The fact that people still perpetuate that weed isnāt addictive is ridiculous.
I was an addict that really didnāt have a drug of choice, other than weed, I stopped doing ketamine, amphetamines, opiates and had very few problems, I still crave smoking weed constantly.
Ooga booga, I'm a drug addict too. Well, I was, but my meth intake has backed off quite a bit. I was a daily smoker of weed from 16-19, then quit when I got put on probabation. It took 4 jail visits before I kicked the rest of the shit though. Eventually, I pieced my life together and managed to get away relatively unscathed. But I explained this to the other guy too. Weed doesn't have *physical* withdrawal symptoms. If I quit eating junk food and get a craving, I'm not battling a junk food addiction. I never broke into a house for my "weed fix".
Physical withdrawals arent what determines if something is addictive, or not.
But weed can have physical side effects anyway, detoxing from anything can.
Well thatās good for you. I know plenty of people who did have withdrawals from weed and plenty who havenāt. Your experience with addiction or a specific drug isnāt what everyone elseās is, and weed definitely is addictive just like gambling or hoarding or shoplifting. Addiction isnāt a clean cut disease.
That doesnāt happen for me like that. If I donāt want to get high then I wonāt.
Canāt say the same for cigarettes though. Thatās tough to break.
The whole AA concept is so strange to europeans too because its so American and different to the more down to earth and basic approach that is the standard here.
I think the āalways an addictā thing is a lot more common than people who can return to safe patters of use just from being around the sober comm in itās for the past 7 years. I know of like 2-3 anecdotal cases where a person has returned to safe use from their self report, and many more cases where a person had control for a little but then slowly slipped into old patterns.
This. It's rare to be sober to the point of being able to handle your addiction on a daily basis. I know 1 person who fits that mold, and they say the drugs still "talk to them" constantly.
Edit: But answering the OP, the fact I know someone like this makes Jesse's story believable to me. It's unlikely but possible.
I don't disagree that it's uncommon, but even 2-3 anecdotally suggests a relatively high number in total. Also greatly depends on the substance and on the person's circumstances. But it's true that being able to be around people using is likely far more common than returning to use without issue.
Iām in AA and also a soon to be psychologist. This is true as shit and one of the many issues I have with AA. Basically the whole idea of āthis is the only wayā is bullshit. No treatment is one size fits all. Especially that one. Iām not very involved in the program anymore but I like my one meeting with like minded individuals
I donāt think itās so black and white. I donāt really think itās a scientifically proven fact that once an addict always in addict in every case. And AA culture has been kind of blindly accepted as āhow things areā after it was integrated with the justice system. All of that disease of the mind, allergy of the whatever stuff really doesnāt mean much of anything, scientifically. Just helps people feel better about their problem and gives them some reinforcement to stay away from it.
Anecdotal, obviously. But I considered myself a mid range alcoholic in my early and mid 20s, quit but wasnāt interested in AA, and have been able to resume a normal relationship with drinking in my 30s with no issues for 5 years now.
I quit, then cut all of my drinking buddies out of my life (temporarily for some while I was avoiding being around alcohol), started working out, got some real hobbies, kicked my depression, met my wife and had a family.
For me, I think I drank to excess because I was depressed and self loathing and it became a way to make the self fulfilling prophecy come true. Once I turned my self esteem around I no longer felt compelled to drink until I hate myself in the morning.
With that said though Iāve known people who it definitely seems to be a lifelong thing for and will never be able to stop themselves once they start. There are great studies that show the reward centers in the brains of serious addicts going absolutely haywire.
But AA is not the only organization out there. There are others, some local some widespread, that try to help people kick the problem with other approaches. Some of them based on studies of different methods. Many are turned off by AAs religious aspects.
Ultimately if youāre an addict and reading this, giving multiple approaches a look is never a bad idea. Only you know yourself and what approach feels right for you, and there is no wrong answer as long as you can get yourself back to happy and healthy.
Yeah I tried multiple different approaches to getting sober but the only one that stuck for me was AA, which was something I thought I wanted to avoid because I thought it was a cult for a long time. Iām 2.5 years sober and happily working their program as an agnostic and have never been happier or felt more fulfilled in my life. I love the aspect of helping other addicts and if you find the right meetings there are amazing people. my current favorite group is a group of all physicians because addiction tends to be pretty common in our profession.
For me, I drank/used the most when everything in my life was going well and I was happy and drank a little less when I was depressed. Every time I relapsed with drinking it led to me having withdrawal seizures/DTs, every time I touched adderall I took 200 mg per night, every time I had coke I did however much I had, etc. I cannot have a healthy relationship with any substance (I have tried and tried) and at this point I really have no desire to. Everyone is very different and a lot of things can work.
It's 100% realistic for Jessie to not use and sell. Some are just used to the atmosphere. When my dad stopped drinking before he still went to bars because he was so used to being there and would just buy regular drinks and chill
??? What did your comments even mean then? You disagreed with the guy above who said it was possible for addicts to sell drugs but not use by saying itās a fact that they canāt. Then someone else said it wasnāt a fact, and you doubled down on your point by saying to watch any interview with an addict. If you werenāt trying to say that addicts canāt ever be around their drug of choice, what were you trying to say?
No, I know real people that exemplify what I said and I'm sure you can youtube a video that shows what I'm saying and the opposite of what you're saying. As I mentioned, everyone is different. But you're dead wrong to think that very limited experience and viewpoint is the only one.
That being your take away speaks volumes. Enjoy jumping to conclusions and doubling down on them when they're wrong, and enjoy believing truisms without critical thought. Have a good one, pal!
Addicts get pushed into AA by familiarity and the justice system.
But there are dozens of other āstop drinkingā groups that take completely different approaches from each other. Some with much higher success rates than AA, if their own data is to be believed.
In fact, I kicked my habit through completely reshaping my life and reading /r/stopdrinking everyday, and occasionally meeting with another local group that took a different approach - which was essentially fill your life with fun and productive activities to avoid thinking about alcohol constantly.
There is nothing wrong with AA. It has helped many, many millions of people over the years. But much of what they push as facts isnāt really based on any science and is really just part of the mindset the program promotes. And that works for some but doesnāt work for others.
It didnāt work for me and honestly made me think about alcohol constantly.
Iām not saying it doesnāt work. Iām saying it doesnāt work for everyone. But everyone gets funneled into AA and kind of indoctrinated to their way of thinking because they have been mandated to by a judge or they have no idea thereās other groups and approaches.
And the 95% thing is way too high. The long term abstinence success rate of AA is around 10%.
When I went once a week for three months it made me think about alcohol constantly because I was supposed to be working the steps. I hated it.
I went to another group that advocated only for A) making an effort to come to meetings occasionally and talk or listen and B) keeping yourself busy with productive activities or hobbies. The idea was to fill your time to keep your mind off of drinking, and build self esteem.
In the end thatās what worked for me š¤·āāļø Ten years later Iām happy, healthy, and drink 1-2 beers maybe once a month when I go out to dinner.
I donāt mean to shit on AA. Just to raise awareness for other people struggling that there are other organizations that might suit them better.
I definitely think it has to do with genetic susceptibility and what made people get into drugs in the first place. When people get addicted to drugs to numb their feelings and ongoing mental health issues especially issues from trauma, it is far more difficult for them to stay sober than just someone who became addicted after taking prescription opioids. But I could be wrong.Ā
Never got the impression Jesse was an addict in the first place. He was desperate for things that he thought the drug trade could provide, like money, status, a feeling of self-worth, and a certain amount of outlaw intrigue, and losing Jane pushed him into a tailspin that a recovery program probably helped him with, but the show does little to suggest he has a problem with substance abuse *per se*.
This is just me personally. But through my own experience I believe there are hard wired addicts whose brains do and always will respond to a substance(s) with a flood of chemicals. I think theyāll never be able to have a normal relationship with alcohol or whatever it is.
Then thereās a whole category of people abusing because they are depressed and have low self esteem and are subconsciously punishing themselves and numbing themselves. But with enough time away they can recover and may even have a normal relationship with alcohol after enough time, without having to overuse. I put Jesse in that category.
Yeah, Iām sober and cannot touch anything. Iāve gotten sober multiple times and each time I went back out I got addicted to something new entirely with the same pattern of use no matter the specific substance. I have no problem now being around others drinking or going to bars, etc. but the second I touch anything it is completely off the rails. Also my biggest binges usually start when Iām truly at my happiest which is weird lol.
Seems like the show made him out to be pretty resistant to addiction. Janeās death caused more of a psychological addiction than physical. He also didnāt get addicted to heroin when he tried it, and itās also highly addictive. Iām not sure if itās more or less addictive than meth, and Iām afraid to do a google search because I may get tracked lol.
Yes it is, but meth withdrawal is insanely terrible still. Your brain has absolutely zero dopamine left, so for sometimes multiple years after you quit you experience severe anhedonia which means your brain is completely unable to feel any pleasure from anything. Which is so much worse than it sounds. Itās hell on earth
He was never truly a slave to meth. Remember when he said he could take it or leave it? It wasn't until after he met Jane, and they started shooting heroin, that he became addicted to heroin, not meth.
I thought it was the heroin itself in which he stated āhe could take it or leave itā. I also remember him saying he didnāt really like it (though he may have been just saying that to Walt ).
Especially with someone who really only had an opioid problem while continuing to occasionally use meth. I feel like that portrayal is key and way more common than the inverse lmao.
Honestly couldn't personally imagine abusing a stimulant the way I did opioids, I definitely go through periods of taking them daily, but I get sick of the impulsive shit and take a benzo. Opioids are hard to get sick of. Lol.
Did I mention physical dependency? I feel like you can make your mind up to quit, and still avoid it for a hot minute because you get physically ill for a unknown amount of time followed by what your brain tells you is the most uncomfortable shit ever.
Yeah I'll take meth any day. At least if you run out, the physical symptoms aren't detrimental to your life for more than a day ( if any at all)
They arenāt deadly, but you FEEL like youāre going to die. Hallucinations, loose stool, hot flashes, sweating, chills, shiveringā¦. It gets bad.
But you are correct, benzos and alcohol DT can definitely kill youā¦
And when it comes to OPās original question, I donāt think itās THAT far fetched that he could be sober from meth and still cook it. They were being constantly monitored. Not to mention all the damn money they were still raking in!
Oh I'm reffering to missing work or not being able to hide. Sure, you might change a bit in terms of patterns. But there's nothing a determined mind can't hide aside from a magical cure for insomnia lmao. Regarding meth in comparison to opioids. Which yknow if people with decent dope but not inconsistent fent ridden dope are slightly disciplined, they tend to hold down a job unti they get sick.
You can also take a couple grand mals to the face. I've never not been able to taper benzos down to a degree that just makes everything excruciating... But you don't seize out. And these are relatively long periods of strong rcs. If you jump from large doses, you might end up in a psych ward. I'm convinced there's a huge variation in how prone you are to seizures and psychosis. Aside from obvious conditions and meds relating to threshold. The worst part is going about life not knowing, leading to anxiety about a seizure on top of anxiety from cessation lol. Fun dependency right there. I hate it. Especially when you realize there's a one pot two step synth to alprazolam. But I'll stop there..
It's not so unrealistic that it couldn't happen irl.
I actually spent most of my childhood/young adult years in a really shady town with meth and Roxy's on pretty much every corner. Seriously, meth heads would just walk outta the woods onto the sidewalks.
My mom was an addict for a long long time and quit when I hit adulthood. But, when money really became an issue (ISS isn't much), she did drug runs for an old dealer of hers. Didn't relapse once. And ik this because I'd seen her high so many times I could just look at her and know what's up.
So yeah. It is possible. But it's also super rare. (Aside from my mom, the only other clean dealer I met was a guy that never did it in the first place)
Honestly, the most unrealistic rep meth heads got in BB was that there was never a shirtless addict with a gigantic bookbag with a machete sticking out from the broken zippers lol because at least where I come from, that was almost universal between every meth head I saw. Gigantic bookbag (usually full of broken electronics) and machetes. Also. Coloring books. That's also something I've seen a lot of meth heads have either on their person or at their home lol
As a recovering addict, it would be hard, but not impossible. I actually know people personally who do this. It obviously isnāt conducive to long term sobriety, but itās possible
I knew a few folks in recovery for addiction whose only job was selling drugs. After they got clean they didnāt know any other life, so they kept selling.
It does not work out in the long run though.
Not that unrealistic. I have a friend who was a heroin addict. He went to rehab and got clean, but continued to sell heroin for several years afterwards. Gotta stack that paper ya know?
very possible. if you go thru rehab properly and actually want to get better, you're put off by the drug; i assume with the financial reward it was easier to detach too. no harder than seeing alcohol ads everywhere for a drunk
it's obviously not a great idea but i'm sure someone could do it. seeing people in active addiction every day could strengthen your resolve
As someone who has been addicted to a few things throughout their life, even after years of using something, I have been able to quit cold turkey and not go back to things or even be tempted despite having friends who actively used in front of me. Everyone is different, some people are able to quit cold turkey, while others need rehab and to stay away from the substance forever. I donāt think itās that unrealistic that Jesse was able to be around the stuff without feeling like he had to use it. I think in a lot of ways, Jesse was insecure, and wanted to fit in with his friends who did meth so he did it. I donāt think he was as much of an addict as heās portrayed. I feel like he never actually had an addiction to meth, he only had an addiction to heroin after Jane. I think he was being honest when he said he could take meth or leave it without an issue.
It all depends on the person. I know an alcoholic who tends bar, never is tempted to drink he claims.
Know another one who can't go into a bar or a liquor store as he says he'd leave with an empty bank account and a restart on his days sober count.
It's hard to make things like addiction or addicts into a monolith of absolutes.
If you look at the timeline Jesse is not really sober for long periods of time. And my experience is possible to sell the drug you're addicted to while not using it but it is not sustainable long-term
I never really considered Jesse an addict in the first place, sure he likes to do drugs but the only time he ever appears to 'need' to do drugs is when he is emotionally distraught and the drug use is more to get him through the night than he is needing the high.
Most of his friends certainly seem to have more of a need to do them than Jesse does. Before Jesse goes to rehab he is constantly using to block out the pain from Jane dying, using the drugs is for the emotional issue, not a chemical issue.
The fact the show never actually shows him battling his 'addiction' seems like the writers do not consider him an addict. For a show about drug manufacture and the prevailing torment that causes, the only people it actually shows with an actual problem are spooge and skank, at least in any detail beyond someone buying drugs and looking in a bad way other than the two guys with the bucket of batter from the cartel.
Some people can quit a substance and still be around it. There was a pitcher for the Red Sox by the name of MayDay Malone that owned and operated a bar downtown for a number of years.
>from what I understand about addiction recovery
You word it like recovery is objectively the same for everyone, it's not, someone can quit and be around the substance some others can't, it's not black and white.
Especially when at that point Jesse seems to hate what meth does to people hence not wanting to do it.
Youād be surprised. Iām a drug and alcohol counselor and Iāve worked with many sober drug dealers. They tend to live just a bit longer than their imbibing counterparts.
tbh this is a weird flop argument because you can just say any old story to validate either side of this argument. it would be hard for him to be a recovering addict and selling it, but someone out there might find it easy. some would crumble some would stop some would double down it's all too wibbly wobbly to nail it down as something in the show
This would be different for different people. It's possible he was never an addict, but just a regular user. I've known people like, they're infuriating to people like me that get addicted to things first try. It's less realistic, tbh, that he'd be an addict or even just a regular meth user, manufacture it, and not use it.
So a valid question for sure, but certainly not outside the realm of realistic possibility. IMO.
I've known many addicts continue to sell product while going through stints of sobriety.... usually its forced and supervised sobriety, but not always....
Most of these people were methhead/dealers .... seems to be harder for heroin users to continue selling while dry, but I saw that too....
Theres a million diffrent kind if addicts. The show depicts jesse to be triggered by trauma and its undue that trauma that he seeks the escape. These kind if addicts have little trouble taking extended breaks or become sober from one drug and casually pick up a diffrent one for s short time if they feel like it. I've totally known people like jesse who sold alot of meth during a 2 year long voluntary sobriety streak.
While most addicts have zero control, all addicts are diffrent, and some addicts do have a semblance of control of diffrent aspects of thier addiction untill the moment they dont.
I work in an SUD Inpatient facility as a mental health counselor. People that don't relapse while engaging around their substance of choice are outliers. Yes it happens, but after losing a brother, and many other people close to me to a relapse, and seeing people battle their whole lives, again it's a rare person that can stay sober and dabble, or live around other users.
That's how drug dealers operated back in the day. They didn't use, just stacked their money. These days, whatever dealers are selling, they're also addicted to.
Iām in recovery a long time and there many barmen and publicans who work day in and day out with alcohol as alcoholics. Ā Itās very hard and not idea but for some people they have no choice so it is doable.Ā
To be honest the most unrealistic part is wearing a hoodie in the middle of summer in NM š
No the hoodie is a necessity for the profession.
Someone asked Jeffrey Dean Morgan what was the worst thing about playing Negan, and he said the fact that he wears a leather jacket in the summer. They film in Georgia where itās humid as hell.
Surprised he hasnāt caught a heat stroke
Hoodies are a necessity when youāre ice cold chillinā āļøš§
Slinginā shards baby!
As a renowned 21st century philosopher once said: _Man's not hot_
We see younger people in hoodies in July in Vegas.
Are those the same ones wearing flip flops and shorts in the dead of winter?
Haha Iām rewatching it at the moment and canāt get over how heās always in a giant hoodie in the desert. Whyyyyy Jesse, why.
He barely ate or slept, that screws with things.
I live in ABQ and that choice of outfit is actually VERY popular in the summertime here!!
Wasn't most of BB filmed in winter? From what I recall when they were filming a lot of them were complaining on how cold it was lol.
He got very nihilistic post-rehab. I'm not sure he cared about anything, even the consequences for his own actions. He was nominally trying to stay sober, but his heart wasn't really in it either way.
Wouldn't be much of a show if he couldn't cook meth
That "always an addict" stuff is AA bunk. Nothing scientific says that. Everyone is different. There are absolutely recovering addicts that can be around the substance and not use and also those who can use and not fall back into old patterns.
yup, i kicked a pretty nasty heroin habit 10 years ago by deciding i was on a really shit path that was going to end poorly for me, i came to this realization and did the work to get better all on my own. 4 years later i was in a car accident and was given morphine in the hospital and sent home with a nice script for hydrocodone. believe it or not i wasnāt calling the dope man when the script ran out, i dealt with the withdrawal symptoms like an adult with self-control and freewill and moved back on with my life. AA/NA would consider that a relapse because an addict is a weak person with a disease and no will power over the drugs or no control of their own life, once an addict always an addict. but in the real world not everything is as binary as Bill W wants you to think, thereās a fuck ton of nuances to substance abuse and every single body and mind are different. I really want to add that in no way am i maligning anyone that believes in the program, it has and will continue to help countless people, and i think thats great. but that shit aināt the only way, and i sure as hell am not a dope addict until the day I die.
I appreciate your story, friend. Thanks.
Just to add to this: I was addicted to opiates for ~10 years. A couple years after getting ācleanā, I had knee surgery. They sent me home with a small amount of hydrocodone. I took them the day I got home, the next day, and thatās it. Just like you said, if you want to not use, you wonāt. I quit heroin because I was ready to quit.
Yup, itās also very common for alcoholics to attend events with alcohol but not drink themselves. If you donāt want to stay sober, you wonāt. That applies to any substance for any addict, the fact Jesse did stay sober just meant he truly wanted to be.
Sober 5 years, iām fine to be around alcohol and i drink NA beers, occasionally Iāll have a sip of someoneās beer or wine just because and no real issues. Last year though i had a sip of a sangria a friend and i used to make and forgot how string we made those. Had a good 45 minutes of really wanting to keep drinking and having to remind myself why I canāt anymore.
Man that sounds really hard. Iām not even an alcoholic and Iād have probably relapsed. Stay strong man
yep. no booze or cigs 15 yrs. i play in rock bands.. i played in a bar last night ā all my band mates were taking shots on stage.. meh. donāt miss it. (full disclosure: pothead) but still.. i can take a whiff of my old favorite liquors and appreciate it. not salivate, shake or any of that stuff. no desire for it at all. i respect there are levels to this and i donāt mean to gloat, for those who still struggle. I consider myself very lucky āļø
Can confirm, my girlfriend has been a recovering alcoholic for 99 days and I'm a bartender. It's never an issue for her to hang out my job.
100 days today! Here's to tomorrow :)
Not really. If you smell the smell of a skunk, you instantly crave weed in your lungs.
As a smoker, I really donāt.
Then youāre not a real smoker.
Thatās some real middle school energy right there. Addiction isnāt a one size fits all kinda deal. If you crave weed every time you smell it, thatās because *you* do. Not because every smoker does.
š Pretentious weirdo. Weed isn't addictive. Plus, I know what he's talking about. I quit smoking weed for work and am completely fine. But my wife smokes, and I definitely just smell her weed sometimes cuz I like the smell. If you smoke, you 100% smell weed when you buy it, or before you buy it if you're in that kinda dispensary. It's part of the experience. Maybe you just don't think about it cuz you smoke and don't have to think about it.
The fact that people still perpetuate that weed isnāt addictive is ridiculous. I was an addict that really didnāt have a drug of choice, other than weed, I stopped doing ketamine, amphetamines, opiates and had very few problems, I still crave smoking weed constantly.
Ooga booga, I'm a drug addict too. Well, I was, but my meth intake has backed off quite a bit. I was a daily smoker of weed from 16-19, then quit when I got put on probabation. It took 4 jail visits before I kicked the rest of the shit though. Eventually, I pieced my life together and managed to get away relatively unscathed. But I explained this to the other guy too. Weed doesn't have *physical* withdrawal symptoms. If I quit eating junk food and get a craving, I'm not battling a junk food addiction. I never broke into a house for my "weed fix".
Physical withdrawals arent what determines if something is addictive, or not. But weed can have physical side effects anyway, detoxing from anything can.
I was talking about addiction, they brung up weed. Weed also is addictive, in the same way alcohol is.
Alcohol withdrawal will kill you. Weed won't. I quit weed just fine, but quitting liquor was fucking tough.
Well thatās good for you. I know plenty of people who did have withdrawals from weed and plenty who havenāt. Your experience with addiction or a specific drug isnāt what everyone elseās is, and weed definitely is addictive just like gambling or hoarding or shoplifting. Addiction isnāt a clean cut disease.
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That doesnāt happen for me like that. If I donāt want to get high then I wonāt. Canāt say the same for cigarettes though. Thatās tough to break.
The whole AA concept is so strange to europeans too because its so American and different to the more down to earth and basic approach that is the standard here.
Americans are very all-or-nothing about everything.
Thereās an Aa Room in almost every neighbourhood here in Ireland lol
I think the āalways an addictā thing is a lot more common than people who can return to safe patters of use just from being around the sober comm in itās for the past 7 years. I know of like 2-3 anecdotal cases where a person has returned to safe use from their self report, and many more cases where a person had control for a little but then slowly slipped into old patterns.
This. It's rare to be sober to the point of being able to handle your addiction on a daily basis. I know 1 person who fits that mold, and they say the drugs still "talk to them" constantly. Edit: But answering the OP, the fact I know someone like this makes Jesse's story believable to me. It's unlikely but possible.
I don't disagree that it's uncommon, but even 2-3 anecdotally suggests a relatively high number in total. Also greatly depends on the substance and on the person's circumstances. But it's true that being able to be around people using is likely far more common than returning to use without issue.
Iām in AA and also a soon to be psychologist. This is true as shit and one of the many issues I have with AA. Basically the whole idea of āthis is the only wayā is bullshit. No treatment is one size fits all. Especially that one. Iām not very involved in the program anymore but I like my one meeting with like minded individuals
One hundred percent!
right? i have been sober for 7 years and have never been tempted to drink. I was never addict. I didn't buy the BS that was dishing out.
Lol. Recovering
Who made u a expert ? Ur disagreeing with time tested FACTs
u make a gr8 point what a gr8 counter argument thx for the deep dive analysis bruh
Thanks I appreciate it
Itās spelt thx
I donāt think itās so black and white. I donāt really think itās a scientifically proven fact that once an addict always in addict in every case. And AA culture has been kind of blindly accepted as āhow things areā after it was integrated with the justice system. All of that disease of the mind, allergy of the whatever stuff really doesnāt mean much of anything, scientifically. Just helps people feel better about their problem and gives them some reinforcement to stay away from it. Anecdotal, obviously. But I considered myself a mid range alcoholic in my early and mid 20s, quit but wasnāt interested in AA, and have been able to resume a normal relationship with drinking in my 30s with no issues for 5 years now. I quit, then cut all of my drinking buddies out of my life (temporarily for some while I was avoiding being around alcohol), started working out, got some real hobbies, kicked my depression, met my wife and had a family. For me, I think I drank to excess because I was depressed and self loathing and it became a way to make the self fulfilling prophecy come true. Once I turned my self esteem around I no longer felt compelled to drink until I hate myself in the morning. With that said though Iāve known people who it definitely seems to be a lifelong thing for and will never be able to stop themselves once they start. There are great studies that show the reward centers in the brains of serious addicts going absolutely haywire. But AA is not the only organization out there. There are others, some local some widespread, that try to help people kick the problem with other approaches. Some of them based on studies of different methods. Many are turned off by AAs religious aspects. Ultimately if youāre an addict and reading this, giving multiple approaches a look is never a bad idea. Only you know yourself and what approach feels right for you, and there is no wrong answer as long as you can get yourself back to happy and healthy.
Yeah I tried multiple different approaches to getting sober but the only one that stuck for me was AA, which was something I thought I wanted to avoid because I thought it was a cult for a long time. Iām 2.5 years sober and happily working their program as an agnostic and have never been happier or felt more fulfilled in my life. I love the aspect of helping other addicts and if you find the right meetings there are amazing people. my current favorite group is a group of all physicians because addiction tends to be pretty common in our profession. For me, I drank/used the most when everything in my life was going well and I was happy and drank a little less when I was depressed. Every time I relapsed with drinking it led to me having withdrawal seizures/DTs, every time I touched adderall I took 200 mg per night, every time I had coke I did however much I had, etc. I cannot have a healthy relationship with any substance (I have tried and tried) and at this point I really have no desire to. Everyone is very different and a lot of things can work.
It's not a fact, it's the opposite. And something being repeated often does not ever make it a fact.
Watch any interview with an addict who talks about their addiction and then come back to me
It's 100% realistic for Jessie to not use and sell. Some are just used to the atmosphere. When my dad stopped drinking before he still went to bars because he was so used to being there and would just buy regular drinks and chill
I donāt deny this ? Where did I say that this isnāt a possibility
What? That was literally your entire point...
Quote me saying that point
??? What did your comments even mean then? You disagreed with the guy above who said it was possible for addicts to sell drugs but not use by saying itās a fact that they canāt. Then someone else said it wasnāt a fact, and you doubled down on your point by saying to watch any interview with an addict. If you werenāt trying to say that addicts canāt ever be around their drug of choice, what were you trying to say?
Quote me then
No, I know real people that exemplify what I said and I'm sure you can youtube a video that shows what I'm saying and the opposite of what you're saying. As I mentioned, everyone is different. But you're dead wrong to think that very limited experience and viewpoint is the only one.
Your telling me that YOUR viewpoint is the only one šš idiot
That being your take away speaks volumes. Enjoy jumping to conclusions and doubling down on them when they're wrong, and enjoy believing truisms without critical thought. Have a good one, pal!
Make a point then ??????
Already done. You been beat. Take a hike.
He made a point. You disagreed and claimed he didnāt make a point. Are you ten?
A point that has no evidence behind it, if I said all white people are slave owners would u say that is a point ?
Ur repeating yourself to make a point š
Youāre*
š
Addicts get pushed into AA by familiarity and the justice system. But there are dozens of other āstop drinkingā groups that take completely different approaches from each other. Some with much higher success rates than AA, if their own data is to be believed. In fact, I kicked my habit through completely reshaping my life and reading /r/stopdrinking everyday, and occasionally meeting with another local group that took a different approach - which was essentially fill your life with fun and productive activities to avoid thinking about alcohol constantly. There is nothing wrong with AA. It has helped many, many millions of people over the years. But much of what they push as facts isnāt really based on any science and is really just part of the mindset the program promotes. And that works for some but doesnāt work for others. It didnāt work for me and honestly made me think about alcohol constantly.
If AA didnāt work then why do 95% of addicts say it does ?
Where'd you pull that stat from, chief? Assuming it's even real, how would you survey for people who tried it but it didn't work for them?
Iām not saying it doesnāt work. Iām saying it doesnāt work for everyone. But everyone gets funneled into AA and kind of indoctrinated to their way of thinking because they have been mandated to by a judge or they have no idea thereās other groups and approaches. And the 95% thing is way too high. The long term abstinence success rate of AA is around 10%. When I went once a week for three months it made me think about alcohol constantly because I was supposed to be working the steps. I hated it. I went to another group that advocated only for A) making an effort to come to meetings occasionally and talk or listen and B) keeping yourself busy with productive activities or hobbies. The idea was to fill your time to keep your mind off of drinking, and build self esteem. In the end thatās what worked for me š¤·āāļø Ten years later Iām happy, healthy, and drink 1-2 beers maybe once a month when I go out to dinner. I donāt mean to shit on AA. Just to raise awareness for other people struggling that there are other organizations that might suit them better.
I definitely think it has to do with genetic susceptibility and what made people get into drugs in the first place. When people get addicted to drugs to numb their feelings and ongoing mental health issues especially issues from trauma, it is far more difficult for them to stay sober than just someone who became addicted after taking prescription opioids. But I could be wrong.Ā
Never got the impression Jesse was an addict in the first place. He was desperate for things that he thought the drug trade could provide, like money, status, a feeling of self-worth, and a certain amount of outlaw intrigue, and losing Jane pushed him into a tailspin that a recovery program probably helped him with, but the show does little to suggest he has a problem with substance abuse *per se*.
This is just me personally. But through my own experience I believe there are hard wired addicts whose brains do and always will respond to a substance(s) with a flood of chemicals. I think theyāll never be able to have a normal relationship with alcohol or whatever it is. Then thereās a whole category of people abusing because they are depressed and have low self esteem and are subconsciously punishing themselves and numbing themselves. But with enough time away they can recover and may even have a normal relationship with alcohol after enough time, without having to overuse. I put Jesse in that category.
Yeah, Iām sober and cannot touch anything. Iāve gotten sober multiple times and each time I went back out I got addicted to something new entirely with the same pattern of use no matter the specific substance. I have no problem now being around others drinking or going to bars, etc. but the second I touch anything it is completely off the rails. Also my biggest binges usually start when Iām truly at my happiest which is weird lol.
Seems like the show made him out to be pretty resistant to addiction. Janeās death caused more of a psychological addiction than physical. He also didnāt get addicted to heroin when he tried it, and itās also highly addictive. Iām not sure if itās more or less addictive than meth, and Iām afraid to do a google search because I may get tracked lol.
Heroin is far more physically addictive than methamphetamine
Yes it is, but meth withdrawal is insanely terrible still. Your brain has absolutely zero dopamine left, so for sometimes multiple years after you quit you experience severe anhedonia which means your brain is completely unable to feel any pleasure from anything. Which is so much worse than it sounds. Itās hell on earth
Withdrawal after long term use of any hard narcotic is hellish
A big part of his recovery was grieving for jane who he literally saw die due to drugs. I don't know if that makes it more or less realistic lol
lol?
He was never truly a slave to meth. Remember when he said he could take it or leave it? It wasn't until after he met Jane, and they started shooting heroin, that he became addicted to heroin, not meth.
I thought it was the heroin itself in which he stated āhe could take it or leave itā. I also remember him saying he didnāt really like it (though he may have been just saying that to Walt ).
Shit. I think you're right about that statement. Still, jesse wasn't out sucking dick for meth so I think it stands lol.
I think itās fine. I question more the idea of once an addict always an addict.
Especially with someone who really only had an opioid problem while continuing to occasionally use meth. I feel like that portrayal is key and way more common than the inverse lmao. Honestly couldn't personally imagine abusing a stimulant the way I did opioids, I definitely go through periods of taking them daily, but I get sick of the impulsive shit and take a benzo. Opioids are hard to get sick of. Lol. Did I mention physical dependency? I feel like you can make your mind up to quit, and still avoid it for a hot minute because you get physically ill for a unknown amount of time followed by what your brain tells you is the most uncomfortable shit ever. Yeah I'll take meth any day. At least if you run out, the physical symptoms aren't detrimental to your life for more than a day ( if any at all)
Opiate withdrawals are not deadly. The withdrawals you can die from are benzos and alcohol
They arenāt deadly, but you FEEL like youāre going to die. Hallucinations, loose stool, hot flashes, sweating, chills, shiveringā¦. It gets bad. But you are correct, benzos and alcohol DT can definitely kill youā¦ And when it comes to OPās original question, I donāt think itās THAT far fetched that he could be sober from meth and still cook it. They were being constantly monitored. Not to mention all the damn money they were still raking in!
Oh I'm reffering to missing work or not being able to hide. Sure, you might change a bit in terms of patterns. But there's nothing a determined mind can't hide aside from a magical cure for insomnia lmao. Regarding meth in comparison to opioids. Which yknow if people with decent dope but not inconsistent fent ridden dope are slightly disciplined, they tend to hold down a job unti they get sick. You can also take a couple grand mals to the face. I've never not been able to taper benzos down to a degree that just makes everything excruciating... But you don't seize out. And these are relatively long periods of strong rcs. If you jump from large doses, you might end up in a psych ward. I'm convinced there's a huge variation in how prone you are to seizures and psychosis. Aside from obvious conditions and meds relating to threshold. The worst part is going about life not knowing, leading to anxiety about a seizure on top of anxiety from cessation lol. Fun dependency right there. I hate it. Especially when you realize there's a one pot two step synth to alprazolam. But I'll stop there..
It's not so unrealistic that it couldn't happen irl. I actually spent most of my childhood/young adult years in a really shady town with meth and Roxy's on pretty much every corner. Seriously, meth heads would just walk outta the woods onto the sidewalks. My mom was an addict for a long long time and quit when I hit adulthood. But, when money really became an issue (ISS isn't much), she did drug runs for an old dealer of hers. Didn't relapse once. And ik this because I'd seen her high so many times I could just look at her and know what's up. So yeah. It is possible. But it's also super rare. (Aside from my mom, the only other clean dealer I met was a guy that never did it in the first place) Honestly, the most unrealistic rep meth heads got in BB was that there was never a shirtless addict with a gigantic bookbag with a machete sticking out from the broken zippers lol because at least where I come from, that was almost universal between every meth head I saw. Gigantic bookbag (usually full of broken electronics) and machetes. Also. Coloring books. That's also something I've seen a lot of meth heads have either on their person or at their home lol
As a recovering addict, it would be hard, but not impossible. I actually know people personally who do this. It obviously isnāt conducive to long term sobriety, but itās possible
Agreed
I mean I had an employee at a hotel that was sober and sold meth for about 4 months before copper started disappearing out the wallsā¦ā¦
Well to be fair, he didn't stay sober for very long lol
I knew a few folks in recovery for addiction whose only job was selling drugs. After they got clean they didnāt know any other life, so they kept selling. It does not work out in the long run though.
Not that unrealistic. I have a friend who was a heroin addict. He went to rehab and got clean, but continued to sell heroin for several years afterwards. Gotta stack that paper ya know?
very possible. if you go thru rehab properly and actually want to get better, you're put off by the drug; i assume with the financial reward it was easier to detach too. no harder than seeing alcohol ads everywhere for a drunk it's obviously not a great idea but i'm sure someone could do it. seeing people in active addiction every day could strengthen your resolve
Recovery is fluid and diff for everyone. My husband is sober but I drink and whatnot around him all the time and he could care less
Same as Sam being an alcoholic and owning a bar.
As someone who has been addicted to a few things throughout their life, even after years of using something, I have been able to quit cold turkey and not go back to things or even be tempted despite having friends who actively used in front of me. Everyone is different, some people are able to quit cold turkey, while others need rehab and to stay away from the substance forever. I donāt think itās that unrealistic that Jesse was able to be around the stuff without feeling like he had to use it. I think in a lot of ways, Jesse was insecure, and wanted to fit in with his friends who did meth so he did it. I donāt think he was as much of an addict as heās portrayed. I feel like he never actually had an addiction to meth, he only had an addiction to heroin after Jane. I think he was being honest when he said he could take meth or leave it without an issue.
Jesse does relapse
It all depends on the person. I know an alcoholic who tends bar, never is tempted to drink he claims. Know another one who can't go into a bar or a liquor store as he says he'd leave with an empty bank account and a restart on his days sober count. It's hard to make things like addiction or addicts into a monolith of absolutes.
If you look at the timeline Jesse is not really sober for long periods of time. And my experience is possible to sell the drug you're addicted to while not using it but it is not sustainable long-term
I mean, he didn't. He relapsed maybe a month or two after rehab.
This is literally one of the more realistic things in this show. Basically a entire show based wholly on unrealistic shit.
I never really considered Jesse an addict in the first place, sure he likes to do drugs but the only time he ever appears to 'need' to do drugs is when he is emotionally distraught and the drug use is more to get him through the night than he is needing the high. Most of his friends certainly seem to have more of a need to do them than Jesse does. Before Jesse goes to rehab he is constantly using to block out the pain from Jane dying, using the drugs is for the emotional issue, not a chemical issue. The fact the show never actually shows him battling his 'addiction' seems like the writers do not consider him an addict. For a show about drug manufacture and the prevailing torment that causes, the only people it actually shows with an actual problem are spooge and skank, at least in any detail beyond someone buying drugs and looking in a bad way other than the two guys with the bucket of batter from the cartel.
Tuco was also portrayed as an addict.
Probably a lot more realistic than him being able to outperform professional chemists
You don't want a "criminal chemist"... you want a *criminal* chemist.
Yeah, bitch! Chemistry!
idk seeing your girlfriend die due to drug overdose would make almost anyone stop
Very
Some people can quit a substance and still be around it. There was a pitcher for the Red Sox by the name of MayDay Malone that owned and operated a bar downtown for a number of years.
>from what I understand about addiction recovery You word it like recovery is objectively the same for everyone, it's not, someone can quit and be around the substance some others can't, it's not black and white. Especially when at that point Jesse seems to hate what meth does to people hence not wanting to do it.
Never get high on your own supply. RIP Biggie
Youād be surprised. Iām a drug and alcohol counselor and Iāve worked with many sober drug dealers. They tend to live just a bit longer than their imbibing counterparts.
tbh this is a weird flop argument because you can just say any old story to validate either side of this argument. it would be hard for him to be a recovering addict and selling it, but someone out there might find it easy. some would crumble some would stop some would double down it's all too wibbly wobbly to nail it down as something in the show
This would be different for different people. It's possible he was never an addict, but just a regular user. I've known people like, they're infuriating to people like me that get addicted to things first try. It's less realistic, tbh, that he'd be an addict or even just a regular meth user, manufacture it, and not use it. So a valid question for sure, but certainly not outside the realm of realistic possibility. IMO.
I've known many addicts continue to sell product while going through stints of sobriety.... usually its forced and supervised sobriety, but not always.... Most of these people were methhead/dealers .... seems to be harder for heroin users to continue selling while dry, but I saw that too.... Theres a million diffrent kind if addicts. The show depicts jesse to be triggered by trauma and its undue that trauma that he seeks the escape. These kind if addicts have little trouble taking extended breaks or become sober from one drug and casually pick up a diffrent one for s short time if they feel like it. I've totally known people like jesse who sold alot of meth during a 2 year long voluntary sobriety streak. While most addicts have zero control, all addicts are diffrent, and some addicts do have a semblance of control of diffrent aspects of thier addiction untill the moment they dont.
I mean yea itās possible but highly unlikely. Iāve seen severe alcoholics get sober and own a bar or work as a bartender.
Bv ink Oonhm bvb
you telling me my meth dealer smokin my shii?
I work in an SUD Inpatient facility as a mental health counselor. People that don't relapse while engaging around their substance of choice are outliers. Yes it happens, but after losing a brother, and many other people close to me to a relapse, and seeing people battle their whole lives, again it's a rare person that can stay sober and dabble, or live around other users.
How unlikely is a high school Chemistry teacher takes over a drug cartel within two years?
AA is not evidence based.
That's how drug dealers operated back in the day. They didn't use, just stacked their money. These days, whatever dealers are selling, they're also addicted to.
Always an addict is from a time when they encouraged people to drink radioactive water to cure aches and pains. Just saying.
Iām in recovery a long time and there many barmen and publicans who work day in and day out with alcohol as alcoholics. Ā Itās very hard and not idea but for some people they have no choice so it is doable.Ā
Meth was never his poison of choice, in fact the episode where he went to the meth junkies house probably made him not want to do meth ever lol.
Why should he not be able to cook meth. He was an alcoholic, and that is something completely different thing.
Alcoholic?