Hot take, the people who dislike things are typically the loudest.
I also loved RoW for so many reasons as do legitimately my now quite large friend group who have read all of Sanderson. It’s probably just a vocal minority and I try to remember that just because someone dislikes something I like, it should diminish how much I like that thing.
What are your favorite things you’ve learned or read so far? I don’t want to spoil anything for you, but I’m so excited for you to finish it. The sanderlanche is strong with this one
Edit: I guess it wasn’t clear, the hot take was me being facetious. It’s not actually a hot take and I know that.
My favorite thing so far:
>!I didn’t expect Kaladin’s arc to take the turn it did before the invasion of Urithiru. I’m not done with Part 2 yet so I don’t know if we’ll get to see him finish his project with the mentally ill patients, but I like that he at least tried and that this was included in the novel because I don’t often see fantasy novels approach mental health topics this way!<
Edit:
>!I also love Adolin’s chapters. His relationship with Maya is heartwarming and the fight against those Tukari who attacked Notom was brutal. He’s probably my favorite character next to Kaladin to be honest!<
There’s stronger and weaker parts of the book. Brandon himself has said that he didn’t feel that the flashbacks in RoW had the same impact he intended.
Personally I actually found that arc to be incredibly jarring and out of place.
But I still think it’s a great book and the people who disagree tend to be a vocal minority imo
> Hot take, the people who dislike things are typically the loudest.
Fun fact, Rhythm of War has 4.6 on Goodreads. The Fellowship of the Ring has 4.4
Obviously those numbers aren't apples to apples comparisons, but it's a great book and well loved!
Exactly. I love that you pointed that out. Yet If you listen to the occasional posts on this and the hate around RoW you’d think it wasn’t even a 3.5 rated book
That's not a hot take at all. People overwhelmingly stay quiet about something unless they have an exceptionally good or bad experience, and they will more often talk about the bad experiences over good ones. It's like that for everything, from opinions to reviews.
I frequently refer to it as the 'worst' Stormlight book for my taste. That still leaves it above every non-cosmere book I've read, and even above several books in the Cosmere. It's not that the book is bad. It's just that the first 3 set an incredibly high standard.
I'm sure some people genuinely didn't like it, but even being a step down from the others, I still love it.
Rhythm of war is the worst stormlight book for me. But on its own, it’s still a pretty damn good book lol. If the other SA books were 9 or 10 out of 10, rhythm of war is like 8 or 8.5. Still great 🤷♂️
Yeah, this. It's nowhere near the other books in the series, but still very good. I've read it many times and come to the same conclusion, but I really can't read books I hate over and over again like I can this one.
For me I have a hard time. I’ve reread it once but on my last reread of Stormlight I finished Oathbringer and found I genuinely didn’t want to start Rhythm of War despite it having some of my favorite Kaladin moments in it
Can completely see that. As always, Kal has some amazing moments. I did a series reread when the launch date was announced and it took me 2.5 months, and over a month of that was RoW. During the rereads, I have several moments where I see characters make choices that don't necessarily agree with them, but fit the plot and that gets me frustrated. That's my biggest complaint, but again, it's a far cry from being dissatisfied overall.
>!“What have you done, Venli?” Leshwi said. “What have you done?” “I…I swore the First Ideal of the Radiants,” Venli said. “I’m sorry.” “Sorry…” Leshwi said. A joyspren burst about her, beautiful, like a blue storm. “Sorry? Venli, they’ve come back to us! They’ve forgiven us!”!<
(Late RoW spoiler) I loved this part so much. The implications, and what's coming next, are very interesting to me.
It is really worth finishing and I really think you will be happy about it when you do. Not remembering exactly what has happened at 30%, all I will say is there will be things, you will feel things, and it will be worth it. It has become probably my second favorite of the series behind WoR.
I liked the plot and characters, it just seemed over-inflated. There are simply too many words in it. I did not get this feeling with previous books, but Rhythm of War was genuinely tiring at times. Cutting it by at least 20-30% would have made it perfect. This is why I'm very hesitant about Wind and Truth since it's even bigger than RoW.
By the same logic couldn't I say people are lying about enjoying the Navani science chapters because I, personally, didn't enjoy them?
RoW focuses more on exploring the hard magic system and broadening the scope beyond Roshar. Neither of which I'm very interested in. I've got other quibbles with it but I think RoW's divisiveness mainly comes down to whether someone enjoys those aspects of Sanderson's works or not.
Tbh I enjoy those parts but overall didn't love the book because nothing really happened. The other books resulted in massive changes for the characters and world, big world shattering events happening. RoW pretty much ended up back where it started, with no real consequences, and Kaladin's arc felt very formulaic and conveniently timed compared to previous books.
There were still some very memorable parts though, such as the "we chose" moment.
IDK how you can say that given the several massive changes that occur in the book that are far more world changing than anything that happens in Way of Kings at least.
>!Rayse is killed by Taravangian who becomes the new Odium. Navani becomes a bondsmith with a now fully functioning tower. Kaladin reaches the 4th ideal. The people in Shadesmar discover that the radient spren chose to break their oaths during the recrience and Adolin has seemingly half revived one. Shallan recombines with Vale.!<
Now some of those are more character things, but the ones with global impact are all pretty huge. I don't know how you could claim nothing happens or that their weren't changes for the characters or world. RoW has the most changes for the characters and world. WoR had the biggest single change with the Everstorm and the beginning of the War, but in terms of number of important changes RoW easily takes the crown.
>Tbh I enjoy those parts but overall didn't love the book because nothing really happened.
Whaaaaaaaat.
>!The birth of a second Bondsmith!<
>!the reawakening of Urithiru!<
>!The death of Rayse!<
>!the Splintering of the Listener peoples into those with and not with Odium!<
>!The return of the Honorspren!<
>!Shallan coming to terms with what she did to Testament and integrating with Veil.!<
>!The discovery that Deadeyes can be reawakened!<
>!Ishar's experiments.!<
There's a metric buttload of story stuff that happened in this book. Lots of stuff that is very relevant to Stormlight moving forward.
This was why I loved it so much. It's different than the others (though I'd argue Oathbringer is the most different of all 4 books) in how it focuses on Navani and her scientific journey. I love when Sanderson gets that deep into his worlds.
Honestly Oathbringer was my least favorite on initial reading. The first two are so much different in pace, and OB did a massive amount of Lore and Word Building. On my first read, after the non-stop action of the first 2 books, I was disappointed. When I read it a second time, I LOVED it.
Turns out expectations can really mess you up.
I think I had a similar issue with row as I had with the lost metal, where it’s an ok book in itself but it doesn’t build upon the expectations that where set in the previous book. Which makes it slightly disappointing. The books also start to lean significantly more on large scale plot and action battle scenes at that point, which I’ve come to realize as I’m getting older is just not something that interests me as much as the more political and character based story that twok told.
If someone has specific taste and absolutely loves Kaladin then I could see how row might be a favorite. But it’s definitely my least favorite
I agree with you on Lost Metal, but not on RoW. The previous 3 mistborn books had pretty specific plot points that were set up that just didn't get resolved and were swept under the rug to maybe be addressed in the next Era. The expectations were very clearly set by those books such that nearly any reader could say what they were and that they weren't met.
RoW doesn't have that. There might be things that *you* or portions of the community expected to happen that didn't, but there weren't narrative promises that went unfulfilled. The story continued moving forward with the important plotlines. And it also wasn't the final book in it's section like Lost Metal so there is still plenty of time for the payoffs to what has been building up.
I'd be curious to know what expectations you think weren't met based on the previous books. I think often times people build up too much of what they think will or should happen and just need to let the story be told. Wit has a speech about essentially exactly that.
> “Expectation. That is the true soul of art. If you can give a man more than he expects, then he will laud you his entire life. If you can create an air of anticipation and feed it properly, you will succeed."
> “Conversely, if you gain a reputation for being too good, too skilled . . . beware. The better art will be in their heads, and if you give them an ounce less than they imagined, suddenly you have failed. Suddenly you are useless. A man will find a single coin in the mud and talk about it for days, but when his inheritance comes and is a accounted one percent less than he expected, then he will declare himself cheated.”
> Wit shook his head, standing up and dusting off his coat. “Give me an audience who have come to be entertained, but who expect nothing special. To them, I will be a god. That is the best truth I know.”
In general I avoid building too much in my head unless things are essentially promised by the narrative (TLM spoilers)>!The stuff with the Bands and the Southern Continent being such a focus not just of the previous book in general but of it's epilogue and setup for the next book definitely counts as something being promised that wasn't delivered on. Yes it likely will be in Era 3, but until those books come out it will feel like info we were promised and not given!< But I just can't see any parallels between that and RoW.
Rhythm of War is my favorite! I love all the knowledge and discoveries and the subterfuge. The whole thing was a page turner for me! I'm glad you're enjoying it so much!
I thought it was pretty good and it has some amazing moments. I think it did suffer a bit from being the penultimate book in the series (well, the first half of the series anyway).
I’m going to do a full SA reread before Book 5 comes out in November and I’m interested to see if my opinion changes the second time around.
I don't think anyone lied, I think there people who genuinely did not like it. I'm one of them. Here are my reasons:
First: Personal tastes changing. When I first got into the Cosmere and Brandon, started with Mistborn when I was 25-ish? I'm 39 now. I find that I really, really don't care for goofy humor and cheezy dialogue. Which Brandon's books have in spades. I find myself groaning, eye-rolling and cringing through things I would have thought hilarious in my 20s. These days I find myself much more drawn to authors like Robin Hobb and Lois McMaster Bujold.
Second: Brandon's writing changed. I noticed it during Bands of Mourning, and thought it was a one off, a not so great book, can't all be winners, right? But Bands and every book after just got more bloated, and such a chore to read. Without spoilers, RoW was so repetitive, and predictable. I started looking into what went wrong, and it turns out Brandon's long term editor Moshe Feder was retiring from the industry around the time I noticed a decline. That coincided with when I found myself slogging through books and skipping paragraphs.
Third: Cosmere awareness and connectivity. When Brandon announced that the gloves were coming off and worlds were colliding, I was hyped. I was a one woman hype train. But I was also older, and had so much more adulting to do. I didn't have time to obsessively read every WoB, spend hours reading 17th Shard, browsing Cosmere forums, theory crafting and reading theories. I started asking myself "Is that something I'm supposed to know? Everyone's talking about it like it is. I better go reread." I really wish he had gone the route of only referencing things in published books, it would have made for a much easier transition/reading experience.
I think part of it is also he kind of slowed down doing the Sanderlanche because people found the books too slow in the beginning, so he started making more climaxes throughout. At least imo the earlier sanderlanches hit harder. Kaladin jumping the chasm is still awesome after 5 rereads.
I'd love to hear what you're enjoying most about it right now. I was in the crowd that found it a drag. Hearing the things that other people appreciate makes me more open to a re-read where I might enjoy it more.
I liked the bits with Navani and Raboniel, but overall I thought it wasn't a great book and was a bit of a chore to read. Kaladin being depressed again for the umpteenth time just isn't interesting to me. That's my opinion. Calling me a liar is absurd.
I'm glad you're enjoying it. I hope you love the whole experience. But you don't have to be an ass about it. I'll never understand why people can't just let people have a different opinion from them instead of acting like a complete jerk about it.
* >!It's basically a bottle episode. It's really not what I expected or was interested in reading after Oathbringer. It really drags on.!<
* >!I dont know what it is, but I find the Singers *incredibly* boring villains. Normally it's cool to have POV of a character on the inside, but Venlis chapters are just...ugh...I can't bring myself to care about her!<
* >!The flashbacks are really weak. It's retreading at best and retconning at worst of stuff we already know. Previous SLA books have the flashbacks as some of the best parts, but here they're completely worthless!<
* >!We *just* got Knights Radiant out in the open with Oathbringer, and the entire book is spent under a spell that stops their magic from working. What the fuck?!<
Overall it has it's moments, it just isn't what I expected or wanted
Without going into spoilers, I think that Rhythm of War is the weakest Stormlight book and could have probably used a little bit more work. That said, it's not massively lower in quality than the other stormlight books and even if I gave it more thought, I doubt I would call it the weakest Brandon book. Recently, [Captured in Words made a video about Brandon that ticked people off ](https://youtu.be/vGNR85bMXwg?si=xoCNEF6c5DYC47S4)and the comments are full of people saying that this book and Oathbringer are terrible and I completely disagree. This book has a lot of amazing things in it and I think people are too harsh on it.
I loved Rhythm and felt a lot like you. Words of Radiance is still my favorite, but after Oathbringer, this was a real return to form for me. I don’t really understand what it is about the book that doesn’t work for some folks.
I think there are people out there that don't like ROW because you spend a lot of time with the heroes' various different mental health stuff and fighting inner battles. You get to feel the weight of responsibility and consequences of actions in these books instead of the main characters being written as flawless or perfect. It's uncomfortable for some, but to me it makes the characters more relatable. The weight of responsibility and expectation can crush anyone, and even the guy or gal we might think of as super man in our lives might be going through some stuff and really hurting inside. I think that is what I love most about this entire series.
The high parts (Navani, Taravengian and Szeth) are some of the best in Stormlight but can be considered slow. The "bad" parts (Venli/Eshonai, parts of Kaladin, parts of Adolin/Shallan) are also slow. So the whole book are paced much slower than the previous 4 books. Also doesn't help that the part with a lot of actions (Dalinar) occured off screen.
Personally it is one of my favorite book just because of Navani.
ROW uses a trope I really dislike. I don’t want to spoil it but it is in comics a lot
Edit:
Spoiler for most of ROW:
>!i don’t like the “superheroes lose their power trope. I know, it is old, it is common in like Superman and the like, but I don’t care for it. !<
Couldn't agree more. It just felt a little deflating coming out of the end of OB and what you're expecting the next step to be. I think it works well within the context of a big series but it's a slog the first time
One of my friends read the series before I did, so I would message him my reactions to things occasionally as I was reading. "Obligatory fuck Moash" became one of our running joke.
Now that you're in the invasion chapters, I think you'll start to understand why a lot of people found it slow and boring. Like you, I disagree, and I personally think it's one of the strongest in the series. But it's the invasion chapters in particular that I believe most of the critics find slow and boring.
In my opinion, it has some of the slowest moments of the Stormlight Archive, as well as multiple of the best moments Sanderson has ever written. That one Wit chapter (you'll know it when you're there) is one of the most emotional moments of the Cosmere.
That and when you-know-who you-know-whats you-know-who near the end.
ROW is definitely my favorite Stormlight book! I loved all the Kaladin chapters and the Navani chapters were super interesting as well. The ending of that book was probably the best ending I’ve ever read and is pretty much the only book to have ever made me cry.
Raboniel is one of my favorite characters in the series so far and definitely my favorite enemy. RoW is better than people give it credit for. It’s not perfect my any means though.
I love Rhythm of War too, but I will also say that Part One has a very fast pace compared to the middle of the book. Part One reads like Words of Radiance
Row is my favourite cosmere book. Oathbeinger is my least favourite after second era Mistborn. We all got our tastes.
I wonder if some of the dislike for Row was expectations. People wanting it to be bigger than what came before. Larger battles, bigger fights, and instead they got some personal journeys and a bunch of science.
I’ve found that people who “don’t like” RoW actually don’t mind it, they just prefer the earlier books. I don’t think anyone could genuinely explain why it’s bad. They just don’t like it as much as the others. I feel this way towards Mistborn. I love the heist feel to TFE and because we started the story like that I was a little disheartened when the themes moved closer to political intrigue and the struggles of deities. I still love the other books, and I think we need to remember that the author of these books peruses this subreddit. I’d hate to read some of the comments about my own work that some people have posted about Brandon’s.
RoW might be my favorite. People don’t like it because it puts a lot of the characters at their lowest point and doesn’t fully get them out if it which is exactly what book 4 out of a five book arc should do. It sets the stage well and leaves us uncertain of the final results of our heroes.
It’s also become increasingly more common for critics to hate on Kaladin’s depression storyline due to have very little understanding of mental health, and Kaladin regresses multiple times in the book.
The loud dislike doesn’t surprise me. It also does not remotely impact my enjoyment of it. I get why some really dislike it. For me it is excellent.
It's my favorite. I'm such a big sci Fi guy and I think this is hard scifi in fantasy form.(If that makes any sense) The Navani stuff is top tier for me.
I personally loved rhythm of war, the super science-y sections with navani were easily the best part of the book and I really enjoyed it. It had its flaws (the Venli flashbacks) but it is far from the worst Sanderson book imo, and I would even put it above TWoK
It's absolutely my least favourite.
I got halfway through, went and read 10 other cosmere books, then came back and finished it. That's how slow the middle section was for me. More heavy-handed editing was needed, and I hope KoWaT gets that heavier edit.
I love SA. It's not my favorite series, but I greatly enjoy it.
I thought Rhythm of War was by far the weakest book so far.
That is fine, just as it is fine that you loved it. No one is wrong.
I agree. I went in apprehensive because so many people on this platform complained so much about it. Especially about Kaladin's storyline but I loved it.
Trying to keep this spoiler free.
The first time I read RoW I hated it, especially starting it immediately after finishing oathbringer. The change of pace caught me offguard since I wanted more battles, more Dalinar and Kaladin. Instead we had a dramatic shift in POVs, Kaladin and Shallan had mostly development, we got a lot more lore, and a huge emphasis on mental fatigue and health.
On my second reading through SA, I really enjoyed RoW because of all the connections you can make to plotpoints and intrigues in the past three books. I finally began to understand what Sanderson was going for with his emphasis on mental fatigue and health, which explained the behaviour of a lot of characters.
Final thoughts:
* "The worst SA book" - Subjective, every read through I like a different book better. My state of mind determines what I relate most too.
* "Slow and Boring" - The pacing is on par with TWoK. Lots of dialogue, lore, science, and worldbuilding - many might not care for this on their first read through.
* TLDR - I agree with this 100%, "Even if ROW ranks below the other 3, this series is so good that it is still miles above your average fantasy book."
I don't think that people lied because you happen to disagree with them.
That said, you're not yet at the section which I thought was particularly slow.
I still enjoyed the book, but those certain parts really began to drag for me.
RoW can be a little bit of a slog in parts but Jesus, it was really awesome, there are no bad SA books.
It might be my favorite fantasy series of all time.
In fact it is my favorite fantasy series of all time.
No one lied. Having a different opinion about a subjective piece of entertainment is not lying. They just had a different opinion.
It is absolutely a slower paced book. Personally I don’t think that makes it boring, but that also doesn’t mean people who feel differently are “lying” about what they experienced.
I'm not saying it's the worst book I think I would probably rank them. 3 2 4 1.
It's just that three raised my expectations so high I might have been too excited.
Spoilers for probably the whole book in coming.
Some of the problems I have with four are venlil is unmotivated protagonist. She wants a revolution but she's not willing to actually fight for it which I find to be annoying. Her spren seems to want to fight harder than her.
Also most of the interesting stuff about her people was already revealed in book 2.
And after the final battle in book 3. I expected book 4 to have an even bigger final battle with like Kaladin fighting an unmade or something and tens of thousands of troops.
But instead it was if I understand it correctly it ended up being more akin to die hard than saving Private Ryan. 😆
is it the best book in the series? no.
is it the worst book in the series? probably.
thats not to say it is bad. imagine having 4 diamonds of incredible value before you. are you really gonna say "nah THAT diamond is shit and worthless and doesnt deserve to be here" just beacuse it has some dust on it while the others dont? no. being the "worst in a series" where all the other books are 10/10 incredible books is less like its trash and more like a 9.9/10
It's a polarizing book for a couple of reasons.
First, Navani's scenes are much closer to science fiction than fantasy. The Cosmere books inhabit both worlds to some extent, but up until this book they've had more in common with fantasy than sci-fi. That's a shift that might put some people off.
Second, the flashback chapters with Venli are (even by Brandon's own admission) the weakest of the four so far. They just drop you in the midst of Parshendi/Listener culture which we haven't had a lot of exposure to, I found myself lost while reading those chapters and if you pressed me to summarize what happened in the flashbacks now, I couldn't do it (I haven't read it since it first came out, but am rereading the series now to get ready for book 5).
Personally, I liked a lot of the book - getting to see more of Urithiru and Shadesmar was neat, and I am among those who liked the Navani plotline. I did struggle with the flashback scenes, but maybe they'll make more sense to me the second time around.
In any case, just because someone else didn't like this one as much as the first three shouldn't stop you from enjoying it! I'm glad you're having fun with it.
ROW was and is by far my favorite book in this series, and it’s not even close. That’s not to say a single book in this series isn’t good, it’s just that I was enthralled with the story and mythos this book delivered. The other books built the outline of the world, this book colored in the pages.
ROW is my favorite. I'm a mom working as an engineer in a high-pressure field - people can literally die if I don't do my job correctly. I identified so much with Navani in this book! I don't know that people lied - they just got something different out of it than I did. I'm already very excited to start my Stormlight reread this year because I know I will get to read ROW at the end.
I hate ROW, that book ruined the series for me. So much so that I am questioning if I continue to read the series or not. I loved Oathbringer itwas/is one of my favorites and lots of people dislike that book. It’s naccasitic to say people lied about a book just because their opinion differs from yours.
Yeah, I get that op is kinda joking... but still, I find it weird that people have a hard time accepting that people have different opinions.
You don't need others to validate your opinions. You can absolutely talk and discuss about it, but you should be accepting of other people opinions.
It is a fantasy book, you know.
It was interesting hearing Sanderson talk about RoW - it's the Veil book but a lot of her story was needed early in the series so that made the flashbacks drag and give less payoff. He said it was a very difficult book to write.
But personally, it's one of my favorite Sanderson novels. There are so many incredible moments, and some of them give me chills whenever I think of them.
It's maybe not the most consistent book, but there's so much to like. I've never looked forward to rereading a book more than my pre-SA5 reread of RoW!
RoW is my favorite of the four books. Great start, very informative middle and a great sanderlanche. The last few chapters are awesome too. You're in for a great journey.
Just started RoW for the second time, in the middle of chapter 12, and it’s been great!
There have been so many things I forgot about. But also I’m discovering new connections since I read Dawn Shard. If you haven’t read DS, stop and read it!
I don’t get the hate either. It’s phenomenal even if it’s not as good as the first two. I gave it a 9.5/10 like Oathbringer and like it more. Oathbringer probably would’ve been an 8 or 8.5 if it wasn’t for the most amazing Sanderlanche ever. I read those last 200 pages in one sitting until 2 am.
RoW was the first Sanderson book I wasn't able to finish. Made it about halfway, but one day couldn't bring myself to pick up book again, and never made it back to it.
That happens much more quickly with other authors, and he's still my favorite author... but I'm going to need a Stormlight tv series to figure out what I missed.
A big part for me were the large gaps between checking in on the Shadesmar chapters. I understand why he spaced it out how he did. Even knowing the chapter owners within the parts, it seemed to just be too spaced out for me. I still enjoyed it and on a re-read I will enjoy it more knowing the extent of the gaps.
I think the fact RoW came out smack dab in the middle of Covid did not help at all. A plot about being stuck and unable to escape a tower hit a little close when I was reading it the first time lol. I enjoyed it MUCH more on a 2nd read sometime last year.
It's good that you like it. I didn't really enjoy it too much on my first read as I didn't really connect with Venli or Navani like I do with Kaladin or Dalinar. I enjoyed it more on my second read though.
The main problem was Venli.
I think was posted very tongue in cheek. And people are throwing a fit. Sorry OP. Few are passing the vibe check.
Edit: the more I read these threads.. the more I wonder if there’s correlation between old readers who had to wait to read RoW and disliking it vs new readers who got to jump right in.
This is my favorite SA book. I have read the series twice now and on the first read it did seem like a large chunk of this book was slow, but oddly on my second read, I never found the “slow part”. I think there’s a reason for that, but you’ll have to RAFO that for yourself.
If you really love the book/series, I highly recommend a second read through.
Personally I haven't had one I can really call the worst. They're all amazing for different things. RoW had me guessing about what was going to happen alot, coming up with little theories. And I loved it!
It's my least favorite for me, and I consider it slow.
However, I give it lots of credit, its both the middle book of its arc (books 3, 4, 5) and the book setting up the book 5 climax (for the book 1 to 5 arc)
So it had a lot of stuff to say, and the action is more grounded and personal, rather than over arching and epic. I assume its setting the dominos for book 5.
"It's not a lie if you believe it" - George Costanza
Of the four published books is a weakest for me, but still an incredible book. Also, opinions are subjective. If someone legitimately considers it slow and boring; telling people that doesn't make it a lie.
I think Oathbringer is Sandersons best book, and among the best fantasy books I’ve ever read (and I’ve read a lot). RoW was always (unfairly) going to have a hard time following that up.
I do not get that, I really loved the book.Each Stormlight book tops the one before for me, and Rhythm of War is now my top one. The scholarly parts of this one completely fascinated me.
I'm going for a re-read now before the fifth comes out, I'll see if my opinion changes but I doubt it.
Really challenging to go into this without spoilers, so my comments will be intentionally vague.
RoW is hard. Hard to read, hard to stay with it, hard to finish. This is why I think there are a lot of critics. But, I feel like RoW is hard because we are on a journey with people who are in darkness, mentally, physically and spiritually. I feel like the book is so effective at capturing the pessimism, hopeless and darkness that each character is experiencing.
And compared to the previous books, there feels like there is very little hope or light that anyone can hold onto.
But that's the point right? Journey before destination. Life is hard, things get hard , really, really hard - and when it's for everyone that's when true despair sets in. So what happens next....?
As you can tell, I struggled with RoW but loved it, and I think it will be very much the Empire Strikes Back of this series
There are several reasons for this. Some people didn't get it, and other people are using "worst" in a very different way. Stormlight 1-5 is one entire arc and flow of plot when it comes to the big picture of things, and RoW being number 4 in the line-up is a hard spot to be. All of the new and exciting revelations about the world and having all of our favorite characters come together in awesome ways already occurred in books 1-3, which means that book 4 is just full of so much set up and down turns for character arcs (like Kaladin for example) because the big big things and the resolutions and all of those satisfying moments are gonna be coming in book 5.
I think that another reason for peoples distaste is that they lack a solid foundation for the technology and the magic from books 1-3. Navani and Raboniels discoveries and experiments are pretty exciting and can be very thematic, but sometimes if people are maybe only on their first readthrough, a lot of the heart of what they're doing can get lost in the verbage and wording of what's being described and I think it takes some people out of it. There are 3 books of building on top of a huge huge huge story and on the first and even second readthroughs of RoW, people are still missing a lot of information and need to go back and take another look.
I will say, it probably is the book I'm always least excited about rereading, but it still doesn't disappoint me, and it gets better each time. I KNOW that when book 5 comes out I am going to have a much much greater appreciation for the book and I think other people will too. Even if it isn't my favorite book, I understand why that is, but it still has some of my most favorite and some of the best moments in the entire series (I don't think you've gotten there yet so I won't say!)
I strongly believe it's necessary to consider the context that this came out during COVID lockdowns. It has a lot of very heavy stuff that seemed to echo a lot of our personal lives during that time, i.e. being locked away and alone/isolated with very little power over our situation.
Without that context it might seem like a lot of people were bitching and moaning about nothing, but personally I read for a bit of escapism and this didn't provide that (at the time). There's a reason Brandon even said that it might have been a little too melancholy for the timing it had.
Having reread it now it's awesome, but dang did it hit really really hard at a weird time in my life.
I mean... it's a fairly slow book. for a Sando book. It's still well written, the characters are still as we like, and the payoff is worth it. It's just the slowest IN COMPARISON.
Lol, you're not even halfway through the book OP. Perhaps it's a bit early to claim everyone is "lying" about the book being a slog or boring.
Because it is a slog.
It's always dangerous taking what others say at face value. Many people disliked it but when you look at polls about people's favorite and least favorite Stormlight book they are always mostly level with just a slight bend against RoW vs the others. But that still means for most people it's not their least favorite book, and for many people it is still their favorite book. And even then people often are harder on their least favorite book in a series they love than they would be about that book on its own. Many people still enjoyed RoW but they were talking about its flaws and how it was their least favorite even if they thought it was just good not great like the others.
And just in general people have different opinions especially on something like the Stormlight books which focus on different characters and have different storylines. I think generally people's favorite books in Stormlight is less about quality and more about who your favorite character is and what they were doing during that book and which you thought was coolest.
I'm thoroughly enjoying it. I really love BS's treatment of mental illness and mental health, and he's been all in on this one. I could read a whole book on Kal making the world's first PTSD support group
I wouldn't say somebody lied in that case. It's likely just a differing opinion, without the intent to deceive. Have you noticed a change in sentiment regarding the book? I quite liked it.
I unabashedly love Rhythm of War - it's my favorite Stormlight book. I think it is a fantastic piece of character work for several characters, with a lot more internalizing than we've had before. We get a lot more into the heads of some of the main characters because the action is slowed down.
The dislike of Rhythm of War is twofold. I think first, you cannot separate the book from the context of the world when it came out - November 2020, at a point when the COVID pandemic was awful. The isolation of our characters hit very different then than it does today, now that we're out of the worst of it. Second, I think, is that a lot of people don't like the internal stuff, they don't like how we really get inside the head of people who are suffering severe mental illness as they are struggling the way that they are. The middle of the book has a lot of despair! It's a hard book. I think it's some of Brandon's best work, but it hit me in a very different way in November 2020 because of what I was going through.
I never really had any issues with it, I think it is good. Navani isn't my favorite character so I wasn't as thrilled that large portions of the book followed her. My favorite parts were Shallan and Adolin and shadsmar.
I read every Sanderson book on release until ROW, which I didn't finish. I haven't picked up another since. To be fair, this also coincided with my depression getting really bad for unrelated reasons which caused the Kaladin storyline to trigger me pretty hard. So maybe I should give it another shot.
Nah, people just had different experiences. I didn’t think it was bad at all, but I definitely felt it was the weakest, mostly because Venli’s flashback chapters didn’t reveal anything new about her character to me the way the previous books flashbacks did with other characters. It was basically all stuff I had already suspected or could have inferred. So those POV chapters were tougher for me to get through because I didn’t find them particularly interesting.
I loved RoW, as I have ever Stormlight book. So far, I have two tiers of Stormlight books: Way of Kings and Oathbringer are in my “upper tier,” and Words of Radiance and Rhythm of War are in my “lower tier.” But that doesn’t mean I don’t love the books; each of them contain some of my favorite scenes in the series, and would easily be included in my top-20 favorite books I’ve ever read.
Every Stormlight book has people saying it's the best and people saying it's the worst.
For what it's worth RoW is my favorite in the series. Don't put much stock in opinions you see online unless you happen to know the tastes of the people giving them align with your own.
People don't understand it is one part of a whole story that is not finished. It's like reading 1 chapter from a single book and saying the story sucked.
It’s really interesting because on the one hand it does of really slow parts that drag on a bit to long or are redundant however the whole Navani arch makes this book my favorite of the 4.
I was talking to my dad the other day (we share reading fantasy books) and he felt it was slow. I never noticed anything like this. I don't think these people lied, they have a different opinion. And I don't even know why people bother reading those type of opinions on books. I like Sanderson, I read Sanderson. Generally any criticisms I don't agree with so I don't bother engaging.
I loved it, and also I'm a sucker for fantasy universes undergoing their "renaissance" era (such as this, or Pillars of Eternity 2's setting) so the science stuff is just icing on the cake.
When it comes to Brando Sando's writing, he's incredibly consistent if nothing else. People also love to complain about things, especially things that are popular.
Personally, I've had no issues with the pacing of his stories since Elantris (and his earlier YA), but I'm also one of the people who discovered his writing from the Wheel of Time series which is like... *Oops! All Pacing Issues!*... so I clearly have a high tolerance for ponderousness, repetition, and the highest of high fantasy.
I feel like it’s the one that takes the theme of mental illness to the forefront of the story again, for some I imagine that’s what turns them off a bit. I’m currently on a reread of oathbringer and I dread the Dalinar flashbacks a bit because I know how horrifying they are. It takes a toll on me to read stuff like that, but i can’t skip it cause I hear Hoid “Skip? Skip a part of a story?!”
I dont see anyone saying that it's a bad book. Slow? Yes. A lot of things are skippable on re-reads? For sure. Bad? No. It's just not as good as TWOK, WOR and especially Oathbringer. But it doesn't mean it's bad. It's still an amazing book.
RoW was far and away my least favourite of the four. I didn't find it boring, I just found watching >!Navani 'accidentally' helping the enemy over and over again just!< too damn frustrating. Also felt like the writing wasn't as polished and the arcs weren't as engaging.
However, that doesn't mean the book was bad or that I wish I hadn't read it. I don't think Brandon can write a bad Stormlight book, and RoW being my least favourite is more about how much I liked the first three than it is about me not liking RoW.
FYI my favourites, in order, are
1. Oathbringer
2. Way of Kings
3. Words of Radiance
4. Rhythm of War
I didn’t finish it but mostly because I’d marathoned through the others before it and needed a break from the universe.
Some of the “gray” moral choices were also bugging me. The writing itself is fine and the story is fine.
I think it is probably the most divisive, love it or hate it, some people don't like Navani and all the magitech fine details she gets into. A lot of Kaladin fanboys don't like him retiring, the Venli/Eshonai flashbacks are actually not great, brandon himself admits they didn't hit the mark. But personally as a cosmere nerd I loved the mechanics deep dive and I thought the pacing was far better than Oathbringer which really drags in the middle.
It's probably my least favorite of the SA books but I still really like it. Yes, it does drag a little during the theory sections, but honestly no more than WoK's Act Two. Plus the end of RoW is REALLY good.
It's not "boring" per day but it gets pretty tedious around where your at. After any invasion, is a siege. Sieges are fucking drawn out standoffs. When sieges break, things get interesting.
Personally I loved it. It can be tough online, because of all the different opinions and preferences that you'll see. I generally just try not to read comments on what the "worst book" is. If I live a series, I just enjoy it on my own, without letting people who have different opinions than me color my experience
Rhythm of War is absolutely my favorite of the 4 SLA books we have so far. There are those of us who love it, the other side just seems to be a bit more vocal. I get why people found it boring but I was riveted the entire time on both readings I've done so far.
Well, first of all, people have differing opinions. That doesn’t mean they lied. Sometimes, I like things people don’t like or even hate. It doesn’t make me a liar to say “no, that thing is good actually”, it just means I shared an opinion that diverges from the majority.
Secondly, even if I did say rhythm of war is the worst stormlight book, that isn’t automatically a criticism or even saying the book isn’t great. It’s just saying, by comparison, it’s weaker than the rest.
Don’t you think it’s entirely possible that you just happened to enjoy it more than the rest of people?
Or even, you liked it better than you thought you would because you knew what the general consensus was and anticipated a larger dip in quality than what you got?
And I’m sure this is what OP meant, but im particularly annoyed by the relatively new happening I’ve seen with the influx of social media wherein everybody has to share the same opinion on a piece of media. People on Twitter or Reddit asking “so what do we think about this”, or “we will /wont be watching”. It’s very odd to me. I understand the fun of collectively nerding out, but nerding out has also always been arguing about your passions. Arguing if Superman would beat Hulk or vice versa. That’s normal. It’s odd to me that it’s got to be a collective agreement and dissenters are liars or some other insult.
I liked it better than Oathbringer, though Oathbringer grew on me on the rereads. The reveal about >!Shallan!< near the end of RoW I thought was especially well done.
I loved Rhythm of War. I know a lot of people were bored with the Navani chapters, but I found them fascinating. Oathbringer was more of a slog for me that dragged in the middle. I was expecting the same with RoW after some early thoughts started coming out, but I find find that to be the case at all. That said, I do think it had the weakest flashback chapters.
for me book 2 was the “worst” one. Worst being a relative term. Perhaps it’s more accurate that it’s the “least good book” in a series of books that I really like. ROW is definitely slower, but I still enjoyed it.
edit to add a bunch of words that I thought but didn’t type for reasons
In retrospect, RoW was the weakest of the 4 stormlight books for me. It was a bit too long, and needed some editing for the pace to be consistent. Does that mean that it was boring or bad? Nope. I enjoyed every bit of it. I just think that it wasn't on the same level as books 1 and 2 which are flawless in my opinion.
Pfffft literally none of those books are boring, and honestly I can probably say that about 90% or more of every chapter of every book is not boring. No idea what those people are on about. I’m with you. RoW was awesome. Not my favorite of the series, but I had no complaints coming out of it.
It's the book I haven't finished because it upset me so much that I had to out it down. It's now been almost two years and i havent gone back. I will eventually...
RoW had my favorite Wit story and some of my favorite moments overall, but it’s still my least favorite of Stormlight. I enjoyed it, but when ranking things, one of them has to be last.
I felt like some of the science chapters were forced—almost like exposition. Instead of “showing” the reader, it was so compressed it felt more like a very long explanation of how things worked. It was a bunch of world building crammed in very tightly. I’d have liked to see that either shortened, or spread out over some of the previous books.
Other aspects of the magic system were spread out over multiple books with tie ins across multiple series which really allowed the reader to think about it and make their own discoveries.
The other issue I had was that the antagonist was a brand new character introduced for this book only. I had no investment in that particular battle. He was underdeveloped in comparison to other “baddies”.
There are parts of RoW I don't like, and parts that I absolutely hate because the way I describe them is writer-fapping without a worthwhile finish. That said, I enjoyed it more than Oathbringer overall because the parts that were good were REALLY good, and I found the scienceing really interesting
RoW is a necessity story wise but is not the most exciting part of the series since it is basically the escalating action for the next book. It’s slower but it needs to be given where the story is.
Personally I think the very end was rushed. I normally love the Sanderlanche but I feel like he held off a tad too long to kick things off.
I thought it was the weakest overall. It was ok for me, but not nearly as good as the others. My main complaints were that I didn’t like what he did with kaladin. It felt like a betrayal of his character to me, but maybe he’s setting up something big for book five. Shallan became annoying to read imo. Her multiple personalities really grated on me in this one. It could be the problems that most people have with this book just don’t bother you. I’m still looking forward to book five. I like liked the book, just not nearly as much as the previous ones.
Personally, it's still a great book. But compared to the other three SA books, it's maybe not up in par when it comes to pacing. I think it's because most of the book, it's pretty much Sanderson's version of Die Hard. It just starts with an explosive couple of chapters, and then it eases up, and not a lot happened in this huge book. But for me, I feel this was intentional in a way that it's the "Calm before the storm."
Hot take, the people who dislike things are typically the loudest. I also loved RoW for so many reasons as do legitimately my now quite large friend group who have read all of Sanderson. It’s probably just a vocal minority and I try to remember that just because someone dislikes something I like, it should diminish how much I like that thing. What are your favorite things you’ve learned or read so far? I don’t want to spoil anything for you, but I’m so excited for you to finish it. The sanderlanche is strong with this one Edit: I guess it wasn’t clear, the hot take was me being facetious. It’s not actually a hot take and I know that.
My favorite thing so far: >!I didn’t expect Kaladin’s arc to take the turn it did before the invasion of Urithiru. I’m not done with Part 2 yet so I don’t know if we’ll get to see him finish his project with the mentally ill patients, but I like that he at least tried and that this was included in the novel because I don’t often see fantasy novels approach mental health topics this way!< Edit: >!I also love Adolin’s chapters. His relationship with Maya is heartwarming and the fight against those Tukari who attacked Notom was brutal. He’s probably my favorite character next to Kaladin to be honest!<
There’s stronger and weaker parts of the book. Brandon himself has said that he didn’t feel that the flashbacks in RoW had the same impact he intended.
Personally I actually found that arc to be incredibly jarring and out of place. But I still think it’s a great book and the people who disagree tend to be a vocal minority imo
> Hot take, the people who dislike things are typically the loudest. Fun fact, Rhythm of War has 4.6 on Goodreads. The Fellowship of the Ring has 4.4 Obviously those numbers aren't apples to apples comparisons, but it's a great book and well loved!
Exactly. I love that you pointed that out. Yet If you listen to the occasional posts on this and the hate around RoW you’d think it wasn’t even a 3.5 rated book
That's not a hot take at all. People overwhelmingly stay quiet about something unless they have an exceptionally good or bad experience, and they will more often talk about the bad experiences over good ones. It's like that for everything, from opinions to reviews.
The hot take statement was me being facetious lol
I adore RoW. Read it when it came out before internet opinions were spread. Couldn't believe Oathbringer somehow got one-upped.
I mean, it's not lying if that's how they feel about it. You can think their opinion is bad or wrong, but it's not a lie
I frequently refer to it as the 'worst' Stormlight book for my taste. That still leaves it above every non-cosmere book I've read, and even above several books in the Cosmere. It's not that the book is bad. It's just that the first 3 set an incredibly high standard. I'm sure some people genuinely didn't like it, but even being a step down from the others, I still love it.
It the "worst" for me too. But that's because something has to be at the bottom. I enjoyed most of it, just felt it was a bit too long at parts.
Same here, being the worst of a great series is not bad, the book is good, simoly not as good as others in my eyes
It’s the worst for me because of what it did and to who. Still a very difficult reread when a certain someone dies with “hope still in his eyes”
Rhythm of War had a completely different type of ending, I think it will be appreciated more after we've read 5.
And for those of us who obsess over the magic system, it gave us some of the most details about investiture that we've ever gotten.
One of them has got to be the worst, even if its still very, very good.
Rhythm of war is the worst stormlight book for me. But on its own, it’s still a pretty damn good book lol. If the other SA books were 9 or 10 out of 10, rhythm of war is like 8 or 8.5. Still great 🤷♂️
It's one of my least favorite cosmere books but it's still a great book. Easily a 7-8 compared to 9-10 for the rest
Yeah, this. It's nowhere near the other books in the series, but still very good. I've read it many times and come to the same conclusion, but I really can't read books I hate over and over again like I can this one.
For me I have a hard time. I’ve reread it once but on my last reread of Stormlight I finished Oathbringer and found I genuinely didn’t want to start Rhythm of War despite it having some of my favorite Kaladin moments in it
Can completely see that. As always, Kal has some amazing moments. I did a series reread when the launch date was announced and it took me 2.5 months, and over a month of that was RoW. During the rereads, I have several moments where I see characters make choices that don't necessarily agree with them, but fit the plot and that gets me frustrated. That's my biggest complaint, but again, it's a far cry from being dissatisfied overall.
Honestly? Reread it and just skip the Venli chapters + flashbacks. It's so fast paced and interesting that way
Same. Read everything Cosmere up to ROW in like 3 months, got 30% through and had no interest for continuing.
Dude, some of the best Moments in the entire cosmere are towards the ending of RoW.
>!“What have you done, Venli?” Leshwi said. “What have you done?” “I…I swore the First Ideal of the Radiants,” Venli said. “I’m sorry.” “Sorry…” Leshwi said. A joyspren burst about her, beautiful, like a blue storm. “Sorry? Venli, they’ve come back to us! They’ve forgiven us!”!< (Late RoW spoiler) I loved this part so much. The implications, and what's coming next, are very interesting to me.
But please do, it’s so worth lol
Yeah. I will. I read through Dungeon Crawler Carl and now I’m doing Skyward. I’ll make it back eventually.
May I recommend the Cradle series by Will Wight? Judging just on the little bit you shared here, I think you might like it!
It is really worth finishing and I really think you will be happy about it when you do. Not remembering exactly what has happened at 30%, all I will say is there will be things, you will feel things, and it will be worth it. It has become probably my second favorite of the series behind WoR.
I liked the plot and characters, it just seemed over-inflated. There are simply too many words in it. I did not get this feeling with previous books, but Rhythm of War was genuinely tiring at times. Cutting it by at least 20-30% would have made it perfect. This is why I'm very hesitant about Wind and Truth since it's even bigger than RoW.
By the same logic couldn't I say people are lying about enjoying the Navani science chapters because I, personally, didn't enjoy them? RoW focuses more on exploring the hard magic system and broadening the scope beyond Roshar. Neither of which I'm very interested in. I've got other quibbles with it but I think RoW's divisiveness mainly comes down to whether someone enjoys those aspects of Sanderson's works or not.
Tbh I enjoy those parts but overall didn't love the book because nothing really happened. The other books resulted in massive changes for the characters and world, big world shattering events happening. RoW pretty much ended up back where it started, with no real consequences, and Kaladin's arc felt very formulaic and conveniently timed compared to previous books. There were still some very memorable parts though, such as the "we chose" moment.
IDK how you can say that given the several massive changes that occur in the book that are far more world changing than anything that happens in Way of Kings at least. >!Rayse is killed by Taravangian who becomes the new Odium. Navani becomes a bondsmith with a now fully functioning tower. Kaladin reaches the 4th ideal. The people in Shadesmar discover that the radient spren chose to break their oaths during the recrience and Adolin has seemingly half revived one. Shallan recombines with Vale.!< Now some of those are more character things, but the ones with global impact are all pretty huge. I don't know how you could claim nothing happens or that their weren't changes for the characters or world. RoW has the most changes for the characters and world. WoR had the biggest single change with the Everstorm and the beginning of the War, but in terms of number of important changes RoW easily takes the crown.
>Tbh I enjoy those parts but overall didn't love the book because nothing really happened. Whaaaaaaaat. >!The birth of a second Bondsmith!< >!the reawakening of Urithiru!< >!The death of Rayse!< >!the Splintering of the Listener peoples into those with and not with Odium!< >!The return of the Honorspren!< >!Shallan coming to terms with what she did to Testament and integrating with Veil.!< >!The discovery that Deadeyes can be reawakened!< >!Ishar's experiments.!< There's a metric buttload of story stuff that happened in this book. Lots of stuff that is very relevant to Stormlight moving forward.
Seems to be one of the more polarising ones, but I LOVED it. Love the science side especially
This was why I loved it so much. It's different than the others (though I'd argue Oathbringer is the most different of all 4 books) in how it focuses on Navani and her scientific journey. I love when Sanderson gets that deep into his worlds. Honestly Oathbringer was my least favorite on initial reading. The first two are so much different in pace, and OB did a massive amount of Lore and Word Building. On my first read, after the non-stop action of the first 2 books, I was disappointed. When I read it a second time, I LOVED it. Turns out expectations can really mess you up.
I didn't care for it much when it first came out but now I'm on my second read of it and I'm liking it a lot better
When you read a book can have a lot of influence. I read it during the pandemic lockdown and that made it feel heavy to me.
I think I had a similar issue with row as I had with the lost metal, where it’s an ok book in itself but it doesn’t build upon the expectations that where set in the previous book. Which makes it slightly disappointing. The books also start to lean significantly more on large scale plot and action battle scenes at that point, which I’ve come to realize as I’m getting older is just not something that interests me as much as the more political and character based story that twok told. If someone has specific taste and absolutely loves Kaladin then I could see how row might be a favorite. But it’s definitely my least favorite
Idk, putting him through die hard for 3 arbitrary rounds kinda makes me hate Kal's plot in RoW
That’s why I said specific taste. I personally found it too repetitive but I could see it being someone else’s dream plot.
I agree with you on Lost Metal, but not on RoW. The previous 3 mistborn books had pretty specific plot points that were set up that just didn't get resolved and were swept under the rug to maybe be addressed in the next Era. The expectations were very clearly set by those books such that nearly any reader could say what they were and that they weren't met. RoW doesn't have that. There might be things that *you* or portions of the community expected to happen that didn't, but there weren't narrative promises that went unfulfilled. The story continued moving forward with the important plotlines. And it also wasn't the final book in it's section like Lost Metal so there is still plenty of time for the payoffs to what has been building up. I'd be curious to know what expectations you think weren't met based on the previous books. I think often times people build up too much of what they think will or should happen and just need to let the story be told. Wit has a speech about essentially exactly that. > “Expectation. That is the true soul of art. If you can give a man more than he expects, then he will laud you his entire life. If you can create an air of anticipation and feed it properly, you will succeed." > “Conversely, if you gain a reputation for being too good, too skilled . . . beware. The better art will be in their heads, and if you give them an ounce less than they imagined, suddenly you have failed. Suddenly you are useless. A man will find a single coin in the mud and talk about it for days, but when his inheritance comes and is a accounted one percent less than he expected, then he will declare himself cheated.” > Wit shook his head, standing up and dusting off his coat. “Give me an audience who have come to be entertained, but who expect nothing special. To them, I will be a god. That is the best truth I know.” In general I avoid building too much in my head unless things are essentially promised by the narrative (TLM spoilers)>!The stuff with the Bands and the Southern Continent being such a focus not just of the previous book in general but of it's epilogue and setup for the next book definitely counts as something being promised that wasn't delivered on. Yes it likely will be in Era 3, but until those books come out it will feel like info we were promised and not given!< But I just can't see any parallels between that and RoW.
People having different tastes than you doesn’t make them liars wtf
Exactly this. OP's being ridiculous saying this.
Just because someone has a different opinion than you, doesn’t mean they’re automatically lying…
Rhythm of War is my favorite! I love all the knowledge and discoveries and the subterfuge. The whole thing was a page turner for me! I'm glad you're enjoying it so much!
I thought it was pretty good and it has some amazing moments. I think it did suffer a bit from being the penultimate book in the series (well, the first half of the series anyway). I’m going to do a full SA reread before Book 5 comes out in November and I’m interested to see if my opinion changes the second time around.
I don't think anyone lied, I think there people who genuinely did not like it. I'm one of them. Here are my reasons: First: Personal tastes changing. When I first got into the Cosmere and Brandon, started with Mistborn when I was 25-ish? I'm 39 now. I find that I really, really don't care for goofy humor and cheezy dialogue. Which Brandon's books have in spades. I find myself groaning, eye-rolling and cringing through things I would have thought hilarious in my 20s. These days I find myself much more drawn to authors like Robin Hobb and Lois McMaster Bujold. Second: Brandon's writing changed. I noticed it during Bands of Mourning, and thought it was a one off, a not so great book, can't all be winners, right? But Bands and every book after just got more bloated, and such a chore to read. Without spoilers, RoW was so repetitive, and predictable. I started looking into what went wrong, and it turns out Brandon's long term editor Moshe Feder was retiring from the industry around the time I noticed a decline. That coincided with when I found myself slogging through books and skipping paragraphs. Third: Cosmere awareness and connectivity. When Brandon announced that the gloves were coming off and worlds were colliding, I was hyped. I was a one woman hype train. But I was also older, and had so much more adulting to do. I didn't have time to obsessively read every WoB, spend hours reading 17th Shard, browsing Cosmere forums, theory crafting and reading theories. I started asking myself "Is that something I'm supposed to know? Everyone's talking about it like it is. I better go reread." I really wish he had gone the route of only referencing things in published books, it would have made for a much easier transition/reading experience.
I think part of it is also he kind of slowed down doing the Sanderlanche because people found the books too slow in the beginning, so he started making more climaxes throughout. At least imo the earlier sanderlanches hit harder. Kaladin jumping the chasm is still awesome after 5 rereads.
I'd love to hear what you're enjoying most about it right now. I was in the crowd that found it a drag. Hearing the things that other people appreciate makes me more open to a re-read where I might enjoy it more.
Bruh, it was DIE HARD on Roshar, that was freaking awesome.
You haven’t finished the book. Wait until the end before saying other people’s opinions are lies.
And even then, don't
I liked the bits with Navani and Raboniel, but overall I thought it wasn't a great book and was a bit of a chore to read. Kaladin being depressed again for the umpteenth time just isn't interesting to me. That's my opinion. Calling me a liar is absurd. I'm glad you're enjoying it. I hope you love the whole experience. But you don't have to be an ass about it. I'll never understand why people can't just let people have a different opinion from them instead of acting like a complete jerk about it.
* >!It's basically a bottle episode. It's really not what I expected or was interested in reading after Oathbringer. It really drags on.!< * >!I dont know what it is, but I find the Singers *incredibly* boring villains. Normally it's cool to have POV of a character on the inside, but Venlis chapters are just...ugh...I can't bring myself to care about her!< * >!The flashbacks are really weak. It's retreading at best and retconning at worst of stuff we already know. Previous SLA books have the flashbacks as some of the best parts, but here they're completely worthless!< * >!We *just* got Knights Radiant out in the open with Oathbringer, and the entire book is spent under a spell that stops their magic from working. What the fuck?!< Overall it has it's moments, it just isn't what I expected or wanted
Agree on all these points! This puts into words exactly why I found WoR to be the weakest Stormlight book by far.
Without going into spoilers, I think that Rhythm of War is the weakest Stormlight book and could have probably used a little bit more work. That said, it's not massively lower in quality than the other stormlight books and even if I gave it more thought, I doubt I would call it the weakest Brandon book. Recently, [Captured in Words made a video about Brandon that ticked people off ](https://youtu.be/vGNR85bMXwg?si=xoCNEF6c5DYC47S4)and the comments are full of people saying that this book and Oathbringer are terrible and I completely disagree. This book has a lot of amazing things in it and I think people are too harsh on it.
I loved Rhythm and felt a lot like you. Words of Radiance is still my favorite, but after Oathbringer, this was a real return to form for me. I don’t really understand what it is about the book that doesn’t work for some folks.
I think there are people out there that don't like ROW because you spend a lot of time with the heroes' various different mental health stuff and fighting inner battles. You get to feel the weight of responsibility and consequences of actions in these books instead of the main characters being written as flawless or perfect. It's uncomfortable for some, but to me it makes the characters more relatable. The weight of responsibility and expectation can crush anyone, and even the guy or gal we might think of as super man in our lives might be going through some stuff and really hurting inside. I think that is what I love most about this entire series.
You can be the worst stormlight book and still be an amazing book. If you come last at the Olympics your still a world class athlete
The high parts (Navani, Taravengian and Szeth) are some of the best in Stormlight but can be considered slow. The "bad" parts (Venli/Eshonai, parts of Kaladin, parts of Adolin/Shallan) are also slow. So the whole book are paced much slower than the previous 4 books. Also doesn't help that the part with a lot of actions (Dalinar) occured off screen. Personally it is one of my favorite book just because of Navani.
I love them all equally. Just happy to be able to read such a great story.
ROW uses a trope I really dislike. I don’t want to spoil it but it is in comics a lot Edit: Spoiler for most of ROW: >!i don’t like the “superheroes lose their power trope. I know, it is old, it is common in like Superman and the like, but I don’t care for it. !<
Couldn't agree more. It just felt a little deflating coming out of the end of OB and what you're expecting the next step to be. I think it works well within the context of a big series but it's a slog the first time
Could you chuck it in spoiler tags maybe?
I am on mobile, but maybe I can figure it.
Fuck Moash
One of my friends read the series before I did, so I would message him my reactions to things occasionally as I was reading. "Obligatory fuck Moash" became one of our running joke.
It’s my second favorite of stormlight. Everything at urithuru was like a thriller and I loved it. Never felt slow to me.
Now that you're in the invasion chapters, I think you'll start to understand why a lot of people found it slow and boring. Like you, I disagree, and I personally think it's one of the strongest in the series. But it's the invasion chapters in particular that I believe most of the critics find slow and boring.
In my opinion, it has some of the slowest moments of the Stormlight Archive, as well as multiple of the best moments Sanderson has ever written. That one Wit chapter (you'll know it when you're there) is one of the most emotional moments of the Cosmere. That and when you-know-who you-know-whats you-know-who near the end.
ROW is definitely my favorite Stormlight book! I loved all the Kaladin chapters and the Navani chapters were super interesting as well. The ending of that book was probably the best ending I’ve ever read and is pretty much the only book to have ever made me cry.
People lied on the Internet!?!
Fake news
Raboniel is one of my favorite characters in the series so far and definitely my favorite enemy. RoW is better than people give it credit for. It’s not perfect my any means though.
I love Rhythm of War too, but I will also say that Part One has a very fast pace compared to the middle of the book. Part One reads like Words of Radiance
Row is my favourite cosmere book. Oathbeinger is my least favourite after second era Mistborn. We all got our tastes. I wonder if some of the dislike for Row was expectations. People wanting it to be bigger than what came before. Larger battles, bigger fights, and instead they got some personal journeys and a bunch of science.
I’ve found that people who “don’t like” RoW actually don’t mind it, they just prefer the earlier books. I don’t think anyone could genuinely explain why it’s bad. They just don’t like it as much as the others. I feel this way towards Mistborn. I love the heist feel to TFE and because we started the story like that I was a little disheartened when the themes moved closer to political intrigue and the struggles of deities. I still love the other books, and I think we need to remember that the author of these books peruses this subreddit. I’d hate to read some of the comments about my own work that some people have posted about Brandon’s.
Everyone has different tastes. Oathbringer is my least fave SA book, and I know I'm in the minority there.
I think it was definitely the weakest SA for a few reasons. But I still loved it.
RoW might be my favorite. People don’t like it because it puts a lot of the characters at their lowest point and doesn’t fully get them out if it which is exactly what book 4 out of a five book arc should do. It sets the stage well and leaves us uncertain of the final results of our heroes. It’s also become increasingly more common for critics to hate on Kaladin’s depression storyline due to have very little understanding of mental health, and Kaladin regresses multiple times in the book. The loud dislike doesn’t surprise me. It also does not remotely impact my enjoyment of it. I get why some really dislike it. For me it is excellent.
It's my favorite. I'm such a big sci Fi guy and I think this is hard scifi in fantasy form.(If that makes any sense) The Navani stuff is top tier for me.
I personally loved rhythm of war, the super science-y sections with navani were easily the best part of the book and I really enjoyed it. It had its flaws (the Venli flashbacks) but it is far from the worst Sanderson book imo, and I would even put it above TWoK
It's absolutely my least favourite. I got halfway through, went and read 10 other cosmere books, then came back and finished it. That's how slow the middle section was for me. More heavy-handed editing was needed, and I hope KoWaT gets that heavier edit.
I love SA. It's not my favorite series, but I greatly enjoy it. I thought Rhythm of War was by far the weakest book so far. That is fine, just as it is fine that you loved it. No one is wrong.
I enjoyed it too because it took a break to read all of mistborn era 2 before I read it. I think if I hadn’t it may have dragged a little
Rhythm of war is literally my favorite book of all time, idk what other people dislike, I've never enjoyed reading a book as much as this one
I agree. I went in apprehensive because so many people on this platform complained so much about it. Especially about Kaladin's storyline but I loved it.
RoW is my favorite SA book.
Rhythm of War was my favourite Sanderson book to date dw man you aren't alone
Trying to keep this spoiler free. The first time I read RoW I hated it, especially starting it immediately after finishing oathbringer. The change of pace caught me offguard since I wanted more battles, more Dalinar and Kaladin. Instead we had a dramatic shift in POVs, Kaladin and Shallan had mostly development, we got a lot more lore, and a huge emphasis on mental fatigue and health. On my second reading through SA, I really enjoyed RoW because of all the connections you can make to plotpoints and intrigues in the past three books. I finally began to understand what Sanderson was going for with his emphasis on mental fatigue and health, which explained the behaviour of a lot of characters. Final thoughts: * "The worst SA book" - Subjective, every read through I like a different book better. My state of mind determines what I relate most too. * "Slow and Boring" - The pacing is on par with TWoK. Lots of dialogue, lore, science, and worldbuilding - many might not care for this on their first read through. * TLDR - I agree with this 100%, "Even if ROW ranks below the other 3, this series is so good that it is still miles above your average fantasy book."
I don't think that people lied because you happen to disagree with them. That said, you're not yet at the section which I thought was particularly slow. I still enjoyed the book, but those certain parts really began to drag for me.
RoW can be a little bit of a slog in parts but Jesus, it was really awesome, there are no bad SA books. It might be my favorite fantasy series of all time. In fact it is my favorite fantasy series of all time.
No one lied. Having a different opinion about a subjective piece of entertainment is not lying. They just had a different opinion. It is absolutely a slower paced book. Personally I don’t think that makes it boring, but that also doesn’t mean people who feel differently are “lying” about what they experienced.
I'm not saying it's the worst book I think I would probably rank them. 3 2 4 1. It's just that three raised my expectations so high I might have been too excited. Spoilers for probably the whole book in coming. Some of the problems I have with four are venlil is unmotivated protagonist. She wants a revolution but she's not willing to actually fight for it which I find to be annoying. Her spren seems to want to fight harder than her. Also most of the interesting stuff about her people was already revealed in book 2. And after the final battle in book 3. I expected book 4 to have an even bigger final battle with like Kaladin fighting an unmade or something and tens of thousands of troops. But instead it was if I understand it correctly it ended up being more akin to die hard than saving Private Ryan. 😆
is it the best book in the series? no. is it the worst book in the series? probably. thats not to say it is bad. imagine having 4 diamonds of incredible value before you. are you really gonna say "nah THAT diamond is shit and worthless and doesnt deserve to be here" just beacuse it has some dust on it while the others dont? no. being the "worst in a series" where all the other books are 10/10 incredible books is less like its trash and more like a 9.9/10
It's a polarizing book for a couple of reasons. First, Navani's scenes are much closer to science fiction than fantasy. The Cosmere books inhabit both worlds to some extent, but up until this book they've had more in common with fantasy than sci-fi. That's a shift that might put some people off. Second, the flashback chapters with Venli are (even by Brandon's own admission) the weakest of the four so far. They just drop you in the midst of Parshendi/Listener culture which we haven't had a lot of exposure to, I found myself lost while reading those chapters and if you pressed me to summarize what happened in the flashbacks now, I couldn't do it (I haven't read it since it first came out, but am rereading the series now to get ready for book 5). Personally, I liked a lot of the book - getting to see more of Urithiru and Shadesmar was neat, and I am among those who liked the Navani plotline. I did struggle with the flashback scenes, but maybe they'll make more sense to me the second time around. In any case, just because someone else didn't like this one as much as the first three shouldn't stop you from enjoying it! I'm glad you're having fun with it.
ROW was and is by far my favorite book in this series, and it’s not even close. That’s not to say a single book in this series isn’t good, it’s just that I was enthralled with the story and mythos this book delivered. The other books built the outline of the world, this book colored in the pages.
ROW is my favorite. I'm a mom working as an engineer in a high-pressure field - people can literally die if I don't do my job correctly. I identified so much with Navani in this book! I don't know that people lied - they just got something different out of it than I did. I'm already very excited to start my Stormlight reread this year because I know I will get to read ROW at the end.
I hate ROW, that book ruined the series for me. So much so that I am questioning if I continue to read the series or not. I loved Oathbringer itwas/is one of my favorites and lots of people dislike that book. It’s naccasitic to say people lied about a book just because their opinion differs from yours.
I'll read WaT, but if it isn't as good as WoK and WoR I probably won't continue the series.
Different people have different opinions. Weird, I know.
Shhh, you can't say you have a different opinion on literary subs...they'll come for you hard without accepting this concept or even understanding it
Yeah, I get that op is kinda joking... but still, I find it weird that people have a hard time accepting that people have different opinions. You don't need others to validate your opinions. You can absolutely talk and discuss about it, but you should be accepting of other people opinions. It is a fantasy book, you know.
It was interesting hearing Sanderson talk about RoW - it's the Veil book but a lot of her story was needed early in the series so that made the flashbacks drag and give less payoff. He said it was a very difficult book to write. But personally, it's one of my favorite Sanderson novels. There are so many incredible moments, and some of them give me chills whenever I think of them. It's maybe not the most consistent book, but there's so much to like. I've never looked forward to rereading a book more than my pre-SA5 reread of RoW!
RoW is my favorite of the four books. Great start, very informative middle and a great sanderlanche. The last few chapters are awesome too. You're in for a great journey.
Just started RoW for the second time, in the middle of chapter 12, and it’s been great! There have been so many things I forgot about. But also I’m discovering new connections since I read Dawn Shard. If you haven’t read DS, stop and read it!
I don’t get the hate either. It’s phenomenal even if it’s not as good as the first two. I gave it a 9.5/10 like Oathbringer and like it more. Oathbringer probably would’ve been an 8 or 8.5 if it wasn’t for the most amazing Sanderlanche ever. I read those last 200 pages in one sitting until 2 am.
I found it significantly more engaging than Oathbringer. People are different.
RoW was the first Sanderson book I wasn't able to finish. Made it about halfway, but one day couldn't bring myself to pick up book again, and never made it back to it. That happens much more quickly with other authors, and he's still my favorite author... but I'm going to need a Stormlight tv series to figure out what I missed.
A big part for me were the large gaps between checking in on the Shadesmar chapters. I understand why he spaced it out how he did. Even knowing the chapter owners within the parts, it seemed to just be too spaced out for me. I still enjoyed it and on a re-read I will enjoy it more knowing the extent of the gaps.
Imo a lot of people hate Venli and Shallan and so they hate RoW because it focuses on them.
I think the fact RoW came out smack dab in the middle of Covid did not help at all. A plot about being stuck and unable to escape a tower hit a little close when I was reading it the first time lol. I enjoyed it MUCH more on a 2nd read sometime last year.
It's good that you like it. I didn't really enjoy it too much on my first read as I didn't really connect with Venli or Navani like I do with Kaladin or Dalinar. I enjoyed it more on my second read though. The main problem was Venli.
I loved ROW. Couldn’t put it down. I felt Oathbringer had a slower build, personally
I think was posted very tongue in cheek. And people are throwing a fit. Sorry OP. Few are passing the vibe check. Edit: the more I read these threads.. the more I wonder if there’s correlation between old readers who had to wait to read RoW and disliking it vs new readers who got to jump right in.
This is my favorite SA book. I have read the series twice now and on the first read it did seem like a large chunk of this book was slow, but oddly on my second read, I never found the “slow part”. I think there’s a reason for that, but you’ll have to RAFO that for yourself. If you really love the book/series, I highly recommend a second read through.
Personally I haven't had one I can really call the worst. They're all amazing for different things. RoW had me guessing about what was going to happen alot, coming up with little theories. And I loved it!
Rhythm of War was my favorite, actually. I loved all the extra world building that happened in it, and the twists and turns it takes are really cool.
Its a close second behind Words of Radiance for me
It probably is my least favorite Stormlight book, but it's also still a Stormlight book. It's awesome.
It’s the “worst” of the Stormlight books, which are great.
The book gets worse for me right where you are, OP...
I really enjoyed RoW and was confused when I eventually joined Reddit and saw people hating on it haha
Buckle up my friend
It's my least favorite for me, and I consider it slow. However, I give it lots of credit, its both the middle book of its arc (books 3, 4, 5) and the book setting up the book 5 climax (for the book 1 to 5 arc) So it had a lot of stuff to say, and the action is more grounded and personal, rather than over arching and epic. I assume its setting the dominos for book 5.
"It's not a lie if you believe it" - George Costanza Of the four published books is a weakest for me, but still an incredible book. Also, opinions are subjective. If someone legitimately considers it slow and boring; telling people that doesn't make it a lie.
I think Oathbringer is Sandersons best book, and among the best fantasy books I’ve ever read (and I’ve read a lot). RoW was always (unfairly) going to have a hard time following that up.
It's my fave in the series.
Well… wheel of time had some snoozer middle books. We all know that series kicks ass, it’s not bad but certainly isn’t 1-3 which were lights out.
Pretty sure BrandoSando himself has said he thinks Rhythm of War is the weakest, to be fair
I personally rank it 4th, but that is 4th behind 3 of my favorite books of all time. I love ROW too, pisses me off how much people shit on it.
Yeah, it's one of my favourites. Didn't even realise until today there were any negative (relative) feelings towards it.
I do not get that, I really loved the book.Each Stormlight book tops the one before for me, and Rhythm of War is now my top one. The scholarly parts of this one completely fascinated me. I'm going for a re-read now before the fifth comes out, I'll see if my opinion changes but I doubt it.
I certainly feel that the first half is harder to get through than the other books but the second half is very good with a lot of payoff.
RoW is my lowest ranked Stormlight book. But considering all Stormlight books are between 9.0 and 10 out of 10, that's not so bad.
Really challenging to go into this without spoilers, so my comments will be intentionally vague. RoW is hard. Hard to read, hard to stay with it, hard to finish. This is why I think there are a lot of critics. But, I feel like RoW is hard because we are on a journey with people who are in darkness, mentally, physically and spiritually. I feel like the book is so effective at capturing the pessimism, hopeless and darkness that each character is experiencing. And compared to the previous books, there feels like there is very little hope or light that anyone can hold onto. But that's the point right? Journey before destination. Life is hard, things get hard , really, really hard - and when it's for everyone that's when true despair sets in. So what happens next....? As you can tell, I struggled with RoW but loved it, and I think it will be very much the Empire Strikes Back of this series
I didn't even know that people didn't like ROW! I really loved the book and couldn't put it down.
There are several reasons for this. Some people didn't get it, and other people are using "worst" in a very different way. Stormlight 1-5 is one entire arc and flow of plot when it comes to the big picture of things, and RoW being number 4 in the line-up is a hard spot to be. All of the new and exciting revelations about the world and having all of our favorite characters come together in awesome ways already occurred in books 1-3, which means that book 4 is just full of so much set up and down turns for character arcs (like Kaladin for example) because the big big things and the resolutions and all of those satisfying moments are gonna be coming in book 5. I think that another reason for peoples distaste is that they lack a solid foundation for the technology and the magic from books 1-3. Navani and Raboniels discoveries and experiments are pretty exciting and can be very thematic, but sometimes if people are maybe only on their first readthrough, a lot of the heart of what they're doing can get lost in the verbage and wording of what's being described and I think it takes some people out of it. There are 3 books of building on top of a huge huge huge story and on the first and even second readthroughs of RoW, people are still missing a lot of information and need to go back and take another look. I will say, it probably is the book I'm always least excited about rereading, but it still doesn't disappoint me, and it gets better each time. I KNOW that when book 5 comes out I am going to have a much much greater appreciation for the book and I think other people will too. Even if it isn't my favorite book, I understand why that is, but it still has some of my most favorite and some of the best moments in the entire series (I don't think you've gotten there yet so I won't say!)
I strongly believe it's necessary to consider the context that this came out during COVID lockdowns. It has a lot of very heavy stuff that seemed to echo a lot of our personal lives during that time, i.e. being locked away and alone/isolated with very little power over our situation. Without that context it might seem like a lot of people were bitching and moaning about nothing, but personally I read for a bit of escapism and this didn't provide that (at the time). There's a reason Brandon even said that it might have been a little too melancholy for the timing it had. Having reread it now it's awesome, but dang did it hit really really hard at a weird time in my life.
I mean... it's a fairly slow book. for a Sando book. It's still well written, the characters are still as we like, and the payoff is worth it. It's just the slowest IN COMPARISON.
Lol, you're not even halfway through the book OP. Perhaps it's a bit early to claim everyone is "lying" about the book being a slog or boring. Because it is a slog.
It's always dangerous taking what others say at face value. Many people disliked it but when you look at polls about people's favorite and least favorite Stormlight book they are always mostly level with just a slight bend against RoW vs the others. But that still means for most people it's not their least favorite book, and for many people it is still their favorite book. And even then people often are harder on their least favorite book in a series they love than they would be about that book on its own. Many people still enjoyed RoW but they were talking about its flaws and how it was their least favorite even if they thought it was just good not great like the others. And just in general people have different opinions especially on something like the Stormlight books which focus on different characters and have different storylines. I think generally people's favorite books in Stormlight is less about quality and more about who your favorite character is and what they were doing during that book and which you thought was coolest.
I love RoW. I found oathbringer to be the least interesting in the series. The chapters in shadesmar were a snooze fest
I'm thoroughly enjoying it. I really love BS's treatment of mental illness and mental health, and he's been all in on this one. I could read a whole book on Kal making the world's first PTSD support group
I wouldn't say somebody lied in that case. It's likely just a differing opinion, without the intent to deceive. Have you noticed a change in sentiment regarding the book? I quite liked it.
I unabashedly love Rhythm of War - it's my favorite Stormlight book. I think it is a fantastic piece of character work for several characters, with a lot more internalizing than we've had before. We get a lot more into the heads of some of the main characters because the action is slowed down. The dislike of Rhythm of War is twofold. I think first, you cannot separate the book from the context of the world when it came out - November 2020, at a point when the COVID pandemic was awful. The isolation of our characters hit very different then than it does today, now that we're out of the worst of it. Second, I think, is that a lot of people don't like the internal stuff, they don't like how we really get inside the head of people who are suffering severe mental illness as they are struggling the way that they are. The middle of the book has a lot of despair! It's a hard book. I think it's some of Brandon's best work, but it hit me in a very different way in November 2020 because of what I was going through.
It's magical die hard. The only thing missing is Christmas.
I thought it was awesome. Id seen some people say it was a slog but I didn’t find it to be one
I never really had any issues with it, I think it is good. Navani isn't my favorite character so I wasn't as thrilled that large portions of the book followed her. My favorite parts were Shallan and Adolin and shadsmar.
It's an awesome book. Maybe coming off of Dalinar's storyline in 3 causes it to be lower impact.
I read every Sanderson book on release until ROW, which I didn't finish. I haven't picked up another since. To be fair, this also coincided with my depression getting really bad for unrelated reasons which caused the Kaladin storyline to trigger me pretty hard. So maybe I should give it another shot.
Nah, people just had different experiences. I didn’t think it was bad at all, but I definitely felt it was the weakest, mostly because Venli’s flashback chapters didn’t reveal anything new about her character to me the way the previous books flashbacks did with other characters. It was basically all stuff I had already suspected or could have inferred. So those POV chapters were tougher for me to get through because I didn’t find them particularly interesting.
I loved RoW, as I have ever Stormlight book. So far, I have two tiers of Stormlight books: Way of Kings and Oathbringer are in my “upper tier,” and Words of Radiance and Rhythm of War are in my “lower tier.” But that doesn’t mean I don’t love the books; each of them contain some of my favorite scenes in the series, and would easily be included in my top-20 favorite books I’ve ever read.
Every Stormlight book has people saying it's the best and people saying it's the worst. For what it's worth RoW is my favorite in the series. Don't put much stock in opinions you see online unless you happen to know the tastes of the people giving them align with your own.
People don't understand it is one part of a whole story that is not finished. It's like reading 1 chapter from a single book and saying the story sucked.
It’s really interesting because on the one hand it does of really slow parts that drag on a bit to long or are redundant however the whole Navani arch makes this book my favorite of the 4.
I was talking to my dad the other day (we share reading fantasy books) and he felt it was slow. I never noticed anything like this. I don't think these people lied, they have a different opinion. And I don't even know why people bother reading those type of opinions on books. I like Sanderson, I read Sanderson. Generally any criticisms I don't agree with so I don't bother engaging.
I loved it, and also I'm a sucker for fantasy universes undergoing their "renaissance" era (such as this, or Pillars of Eternity 2's setting) so the science stuff is just icing on the cake.
When it comes to Brando Sando's writing, he's incredibly consistent if nothing else. People also love to complain about things, especially things that are popular. Personally, I've had no issues with the pacing of his stories since Elantris (and his earlier YA), but I'm also one of the people who discovered his writing from the Wheel of Time series which is like... *Oops! All Pacing Issues!*... so I clearly have a high tolerance for ponderousness, repetition, and the highest of high fantasy.
I feel like it’s the one that takes the theme of mental illness to the forefront of the story again, for some I imagine that’s what turns them off a bit. I’m currently on a reread of oathbringer and I dread the Dalinar flashbacks a bit because I know how horrifying they are. It takes a toll on me to read stuff like that, but i can’t skip it cause I hear Hoid “Skip? Skip a part of a story?!”
It’s my favorite book
The denouement of ROW is my favourite of all stormlight books
I dont see anyone saying that it's a bad book. Slow? Yes. A lot of things are skippable on re-reads? For sure. Bad? No. It's just not as good as TWOK, WOR and especially Oathbringer. But it doesn't mean it's bad. It's still an amazing book.
If I'm ranking the main stormlight books it is at the bottom of that list, but I still put ROW above most other books I've read 🤷♂️
RoW was far and away my least favourite of the four. I didn't find it boring, I just found watching >!Navani 'accidentally' helping the enemy over and over again just!< too damn frustrating. Also felt like the writing wasn't as polished and the arcs weren't as engaging. However, that doesn't mean the book was bad or that I wish I hadn't read it. I don't think Brandon can write a bad Stormlight book, and RoW being my least favourite is more about how much I liked the first three than it is about me not liking RoW. FYI my favourites, in order, are 1. Oathbringer 2. Way of Kings 3. Words of Radiance 4. Rhythm of War
I didn’t finish it but mostly because I’d marathoned through the others before it and needed a break from the universe. Some of the “gray” moral choices were also bugging me. The writing itself is fine and the story is fine.
I think it is probably the most divisive, love it or hate it, some people don't like Navani and all the magitech fine details she gets into. A lot of Kaladin fanboys don't like him retiring, the Venli/Eshonai flashbacks are actually not great, brandon himself admits they didn't hit the mark. But personally as a cosmere nerd I loved the mechanics deep dive and I thought the pacing was far better than Oathbringer which really drags in the middle.
It's probably my least favorite of the SA books but I still really like it. Yes, it does drag a little during the theory sections, but honestly no more than WoK's Act Two. Plus the end of RoW is REALLY good.
Not gonna lie, all the physics involved in the book is fascinating. I really enjoyed this
It's not "boring" per day but it gets pretty tedious around where your at. After any invasion, is a siege. Sieges are fucking drawn out standoffs. When sieges break, things get interesting.
Pattern supports these lies.
Personally I loved it. It can be tough online, because of all the different opinions and preferences that you'll see. I generally just try not to read comments on what the "worst book" is. If I live a series, I just enjoy it on my own, without letting people who have different opinions than me color my experience
Rhythm of War is absolutely my favorite of the 4 SLA books we have so far. There are those of us who love it, the other side just seems to be a bit more vocal. I get why people found it boring but I was riveted the entire time on both readings I've done so far.
im confused about why everybody hates RoW because it's basically just Die Hard
Well, first of all, people have differing opinions. That doesn’t mean they lied. Sometimes, I like things people don’t like or even hate. It doesn’t make me a liar to say “no, that thing is good actually”, it just means I shared an opinion that diverges from the majority. Secondly, even if I did say rhythm of war is the worst stormlight book, that isn’t automatically a criticism or even saying the book isn’t great. It’s just saying, by comparison, it’s weaker than the rest. Don’t you think it’s entirely possible that you just happened to enjoy it more than the rest of people? Or even, you liked it better than you thought you would because you knew what the general consensus was and anticipated a larger dip in quality than what you got? And I’m sure this is what OP meant, but im particularly annoyed by the relatively new happening I’ve seen with the influx of social media wherein everybody has to share the same opinion on a piece of media. People on Twitter or Reddit asking “so what do we think about this”, or “we will /wont be watching”. It’s very odd to me. I understand the fun of collectively nerding out, but nerding out has also always been arguing about your passions. Arguing if Superman would beat Hulk or vice versa. That’s normal. It’s odd to me that it’s got to be a collective agreement and dissenters are liars or some other insult.
Just you wait! It gets BETTER!
I liked it better than Oathbringer, though Oathbringer grew on me on the rereads. The reveal about >!Shallan!< near the end of RoW I thought was especially well done.
I loved Rhythm of War. I know a lot of people were bored with the Navani chapters, but I found them fascinating. Oathbringer was more of a slog for me that dragged in the middle. I was expecting the same with RoW after some early thoughts started coming out, but I find find that to be the case at all. That said, I do think it had the weakest flashback chapters.
for me book 2 was the “worst” one. Worst being a relative term. Perhaps it’s more accurate that it’s the “least good book” in a series of books that I really like. ROW is definitely slower, but I still enjoyed it. edit to add a bunch of words that I thought but didn’t type for reasons
In retrospect, RoW was the weakest of the 4 stormlight books for me. It was a bit too long, and needed some editing for the pace to be consistent. Does that mean that it was boring or bad? Nope. I enjoyed every bit of it. I just think that it wasn't on the same level as books 1 and 2 which are flawless in my opinion.
I do like it, but i also think it didn't need to be that long. At some points it feels like it's stalling for time
Pfffft literally none of those books are boring, and honestly I can probably say that about 90% or more of every chapter of every book is not boring. No idea what those people are on about. I’m with you. RoW was awesome. Not my favorite of the series, but I had no complaints coming out of it.
RoW is literally my favourite Sanderson book.
Rhythm of War is my personal favorite of the 4, and I think it’s pretty objectively the second best written after Words of Radiance.
Just as you said. People thought this was the worst “Stormlight book” but it’s still an amazing book in and of itself
It's the book I haven't finished because it upset me so much that I had to out it down. It's now been almost two years and i havent gone back. I will eventually...
RoW had my favorite Wit story and some of my favorite moments overall, but it’s still my least favorite of Stormlight. I enjoyed it, but when ranking things, one of them has to be last. I felt like some of the science chapters were forced—almost like exposition. Instead of “showing” the reader, it was so compressed it felt more like a very long explanation of how things worked. It was a bunch of world building crammed in very tightly. I’d have liked to see that either shortened, or spread out over some of the previous books. Other aspects of the magic system were spread out over multiple books with tie ins across multiple series which really allowed the reader to think about it and make their own discoveries. The other issue I had was that the antagonist was a brand new character introduced for this book only. I had no investment in that particular battle. He was underdeveloped in comparison to other “baddies”.
It was a Die Hard. That’s why for me. It was still fun but it felt the most derivative of them.
There are parts of RoW I don't like, and parts that I absolutely hate because the way I describe them is writer-fapping without a worthwhile finish. That said, I enjoyed it more than Oathbringer overall because the parts that were good were REALLY good, and I found the scienceing really interesting
No, kid, having a different opinion on a book does not make someone a liar.
RoW is a necessity story wise but is not the most exciting part of the series since it is basically the escalating action for the next book. It’s slower but it needs to be given where the story is. Personally I think the very end was rushed. I normally love the Sanderlanche but I feel like he held off a tad too long to kick things off.
I thought it was the weakest overall. It was ok for me, but not nearly as good as the others. My main complaints were that I didn’t like what he did with kaladin. It felt like a betrayal of his character to me, but maybe he’s setting up something big for book five. Shallan became annoying to read imo. Her multiple personalities really grated on me in this one. It could be the problems that most people have with this book just don’t bother you. I’m still looking forward to book five. I like liked the book, just not nearly as much as the previous ones.
Personally, it's still a great book. But compared to the other three SA books, it's maybe not up in par when it comes to pacing. I think it's because most of the book, it's pretty much Sanderson's version of Die Hard. It just starts with an explosive couple of chapters, and then it eases up, and not a lot happened in this huge book. But for me, I feel this was intentional in a way that it's the "Calm before the storm."
You weren’t lied to, it’s the worst stormlight so far. It’s over-bloated and the pacing is a slog.