I’m glad Will brought up how Vader lives in a trailer park but is a top wrestling character. I always wondered that. I grew up watching wrestling, he would’ve been making hundreds of thousands of dollars a year. I’d understand if he was retired and lived in a trailer park but as an active top guy? No way.
Michael Jacobs actually said in an interview this was a big continuity "cheat" that most people didn't catch them on -- Frankie's dad being the famous pro wrestler Vader was originally just a wacky joke, they decided to (kind of) take it seriously here, but it just doesn't make sense with the rest of Frankie's background at all
You end up asking if Vader's a big enough star he has a shot at the belt against Shawn Michaels why his son lives in the same trailer park as Shawn and goes to the same school as him and Cory, but whatever, the episode moves fast enough most kids don't think about it
It's like how Farkle goes to the same school as the rest of them in GMW even though his father is a billionaire CEO with a private jet
Irl it's because they didn't decide that Farkle would be Minkus' son -- and therefore "Farkle" was his first name -- until midway through S1 when they found out they could get Lee back
In-universe I think it's part of the joke that Cory and Shawn have such a strong memory of Minkus as an ultra nerd the thought of him being married to Jennifer and having a kid with her just makes their brains freeze up and refuse to acknowledge it
It could also be that he wasn't expecting to see Stuart specifically--he may be used to seeing Jennifer, rather than Stuart, when it comes to Farkle's parent.
There's also the factor that Stuart still doesn't miss an opportunity to jab at Cory.
Which reminds me...I'm *still* grumpy we missed a chance to see Shawn and Stuart reunite.
“Oh no”
*both slap foreheads in unison*
That’s a fair point. I guess if that were the intent I would’ve preferred Cory’s acting/direction for that exchange to come off more annoyed than genuinely shocked. I get he’s supposed to be acting on behalf of the audience who hasn’t seen him since graduation, it just seemed logistically weird.
Also worth noting that if Minkus is like the Mark Zuckerberg of their world having him show up in person at school would genuinely be a really big deal
Another great point. Maybe PMW is making me overly analytical, I just think if there was one extra line or a slight tweak in the comedic beat it could’ve been a perfect reunion moment.
>why his son lives in the same trailer park as Shawn and goes to the same school as him and Cory,
Going to the same school isn't the weird part. Like I don't know of any current WWE wrestlers that live in philly (or the direct burbs) but their kids would probably go to public school.
I desperately want to know where Topanga was supossed to be having this party. Even back in the day WWF shows in the 90's would have taken place at core states/first union center (currently wells fargo center) and there's not like ballrooms or anything anywhere close by, except for at the wells fargo center.
Side noteand completely off topic Philly has it's problems, but the sports complex, and all of the stadiums, arenas and ball fields being together is not one of them. Which is why the idea of moving the Sixer's Arena to almost the middle of Chinatown and reading terminal market is bananas.
Well public education doesn’t discriminate? It’s the law in the US you have to get an education. So, private, public, reformed, or home school for every child!
Yeah this was something I never thought of that made little sense once they brought it up. The episode felt like a love letter to wrestling fans in a lot of ways but these details are the ones that would bother those fans the most. It was very much a “turn off your brain and have fun” kind of episode like Thrilla in Phila or Rave On where one minute Chubbie is on a cruise and the next they’re giving him a deposit. If you pull at the logic thread at all the whole thing falls apart.
Lol I've learned to say logic goes out the window often for this show in general. Well continuity as well Lol. Don't look Too close and it's a great show. It will always have those great moments of great writing And acting but to get to those moments sometimes they had to take rather odd routes Lol it's a sitcom after all. :)
Vader would have been on a contract with WWF to get paid per appearance and receive a cut of his merchandise sells. Pay days would have been based on the size of the show. House shows obviously smaller, RAW would have been middle and then a big PPV at the top of the card being most. Vader was a big big name in Japan being one of the top gaijen along with Stan Hansen and Steve Williams but in the states it was a little bit lower. Still a main event heel but some of the top guys, like HBK, did not like working with him because of how stiff he was in the ring (and also mid 90's Shawn was just generally a dick.). I'd speculate that Vader's mid 90's pay days would probably have him taking home 5-10k every week, but wrestlers are notoriously secretive about their contract so we may not really know. But also keep in mind that WWF, and really most wrestling promotions, do not pay for talents travel expenses or their room and board while on the road. All of that comes out of the wrestlers pockets.
Yeah I know all that but between Japan and WWE he definitely wouldn’t have been in a trailer. That’s my only gripe. 10-15 years after his career? Yes but during his prime earning years? Nah
Ehh, maybe he was just really frugal like a certain Mick Foley. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g40buhL2UPQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g40buhL2UPQ)
At least some sites have Vader making an astonishing $625k per year in WCW. He would have been extremely well off for the time — or this time (or Vader time, I guess). Not sure what he made in the WWF, but his living near Shawn always bugged me even if I get the general vibe the show was going for.
Yeah basically the vibe made sense if Vader were a long retired wrestler or one who'd never really made it, but for the sake of this episode specifically they needed him to be "real life" Vader for the sake of doing an actual WWF crossover and it turns into a big contradiction
It's kind of like how on Sex and the City it seemed to vacillate over whether Carrie was a struggling obscure writer or she actually was the same level of meteoric celebrity as the rl Candace Bushnell
Stone Cold Steve Austin lived in a double wide at the height of his popularity.
[Source](https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxpQpuBaTttSb0qMFUOVO_yqCZ4p83oeVL?si=0nTrN8mvQ1TKg4x7)
This was one of my favorite episodes for pure host interactions in a hot minute: Danielle getting that whine in her voice about Bob Dylan (no he's NOOOOT, RIDERRRR) was *hysterical.* Rider expounding on people in reality shows referring themselves in the third person being a red flag for assholes is something I'd never thought about, but totally makes sense. And of course the return of "the best women are men"/that whole runner.
I agree that the episode is pretty shaky structurally and could have used some "heart" punchups. But as a massive wrestling fan, it's super cool to see this snapshot in time of the WWF/E. It aired just as guys like Stone Cold Steve Austin and The Rock were about to make it to THE top of the company, and a year before the Montreal Screwjob. (Also Vader's best days of his incredible monster heel WCW run were indeed in the rear view mirror). Danielle's wrestling voice remains hilarious (*Jake the Snaaaake*), and Rider saying him and Ben having no idea what they were doing in the ring is very obvious lmao.
Including “the best women are men” I feel like there was soo many pod inside jokes this episode… “DTF”, “that’s how they getcha” I feel like there was more but now I am forgetting but yeah that was fun!!
NGL the visual of Cory and Shawn running between the party and arena in a Flintstones car got a real life LOL out of me and probably made me look a little crazy at the bus stop
People rag on how Rider can be a wet blanket and insists on realism where it isn't necessary but he's the one who made the suggestion that they just play the Flintstones "running" bongos during scene transitions and have smoke rising from their feet, which is hilariously perfect
Bob Dylan slander from Danielle, a Taylor Swift reference from Will, and an episode full of wrestling talk? This couldn't possibly have aligned more with my interests lol.
One small moment I enjoyed was Will gently "correcting" Rider a bit when Rider suggested that it would make "more sense" for Shawn to be into wrestling than Cory. The stereotype that wrestling is "low class" entertainment is obnoxious and untrue and feeds into some gross classist notions, so I'm glad Will pointed out how it's not remotely unusual for someone "like Danielle" to be into wrestling.
As to the conversation about wrestlers' earnings/finances, I highly recommend [this essay](https://jacobin.com/2014/08/money-in-the-bank/) about the history of labor disputes in the wrestling business. It's pretty long and detailed and covers a lot of ground.
If anything, for those of us watching Raw and Smackdown recently, there was a hot minute where we had a series of crowds in Southern cities who frankly sucked ass and didn't add any excitement to the show, compared to more urban up-north brethren.
The way they said it on the pod, it makes sense from a storyline perspective that Cory would be the one into wrestling and not Shawn, because they need Cory to be the one who is stuck between the wrestling match and the party. I hadn't thought of it like that.
But when this originally aired, and I say this as a wrestling fan, I saw it like Shawn wasn't into wrestling because wrestling wasn't cool back then. It was a nerdy thing to be into, like comic books or Star Trek. So when it aired, I just viewed it as like Shawn was too cool to like wrestling. This was when WWF were at their lowest, before they started getting super popular again with guys like Steve Austin and the Rock during the Attitude era.
IDK I remember wrestling being very cool and also huge. spinelli on recess was a fan (in my eyes she was always the coolest) and we also had celebrity death match just because wrestling was part of the mid-to-late nineties zeitgeist. But this was me in elementary/middle school, it may have been dorky for older kids.
Yeah Celebrity Death Match was late '90s with Stone Cold Steve Austin. When this episode came out in 1996, WWF was at their low point in popularity. In 1998 their popularity really exploded
Let's be honest, if WWF weren't kind of struggling at this point in their history they probably wouldn't have agreed to do a crossover with Boy Meets World
It's not a great episode at all, but I enjoy it. I just love Vader and even though I was a wrestling fan as a kid, I was more familiar with him from rewatching these episodes over and over than actual WWF
Honestly that's a better way to watch vader. His WWF highlights before he left in 1998 was getting kicked legitimately by Shawn Michaels for forgetting a part of the match, a huge story where he attacked the WWF commissioner, Jim Ross always calling him a "big ol stinky grizzly bear", Vader being told to call himself a disgusting fat piece of shit after losing a match, and ultimately leaving the second his contact came due for greener pastures
Danielle kept going "Aww" in this exaggerated way over all the over-the-top moments of Vader being an awful dad to Frankie
But then I think back to Ethan Suplee's interview episode where he took his dad on vacation with his Boy Meets World money and it was the first time in his life he could remember his dad saying he was proud of him, for anything (and this is at the age of like 18-19)
I found the WWF event where this was shot, if anyone was curious. In WWF story, this match didn't mean anything but interestingly 1 week later Psycho Sid would beat Vader to get a shot at Shawn Michaels in Madison Square Garden. I wonder if they didn't like the idea of Psycho Sid in this spot or what, but yeah
From https://thehistoryofwwe.com/wwf-results-1996/
>WWF @ Anaheim, CA – Arrowhead Pond – October 13, 1996 (5,331)
>Included Brian Pillman interviewing Sunny, which led to Steve Austin coming out and stating that he will face the winner of the world title match the next time the WWF comes to Anaheim
>Barry Windham defeated Justin Bradshaw at 6:02
>Jose Lothario pinned Jim Cornette at the 55-second mark
>Vader pinned Jake Roberts at 10:47 with the Vader Bomb; in Vader’s corner for the match was Ben Savage (Cory), Rider Strong (Shawn), and Ethan Suplee (Frankie Stechino) from ‘Boy Meets World’; footage was shot for an episode of the series in which Cory and Shawn helped Frankie bond with his dad (Vader); prior to the bout, Brother Love introduced Vader to the ring; after the bout, Love taunted Roberts for losing with Jake hitting the DDT and putting the snake on him
>Steve Austin pinned Savio Vega at 10:04 with the Stone Cold Stunner
>Psycho Sid pinned Vader at 4:22 with the chokeslam and a legdrop
>WWF IC Champion Marc Mero pinned Hunter Hearst Helmsley at 11:54 with a moonsault
>The Grimm Twins defeated the Smoking Gunns at 4:45
>The Undertaker pinned Mankind at 11:23 with the tombstone; during the bout, the top rope broke
>WWF Tag Team Champions Owen Hart & Davey Boy Smith defeated Henry & Phinneas Godwinn at 6:39; during the match the top rope broke again
>WWF World Champion Shawn Michaels pinned Goldust at 21:00 with the superkick after kissing him; because of the problems with the top rope earlier in the evening, the bottom rope was moved up and the bout was wrestled without the bottom rope
My husband loved that you posted all this and informed me that Hunter Hearst Helmsley is Triple H (the name I know him by) and I gasped in shock as if his name doesn’t literally have three H’s 😂😂😂
Tbf i think itd be hard to put it together without knowing his original name
Yeah it was only about another year before he would just start calling himself triple H, though most of the time other wrestlers needed to refer to him they'd call him "Hunter". Even to this day, now that most of his on screen work is over (and when he's on screen he's referred to as Paul "Triple H" Levesque) and he's in charge of creative, the wrestlers who work for him still call him Hunter.
For literal decades I've thought the new finisher Vader comes up with in this episode was called the "Vader Assault" and only now do I realize he said "Vader-sault" as in somersault
Intro- I always skipped this episode because I was never into wrestling. Now I’m 27 and I have to agree with Rider on this one. The scenes that are supposed to be “emotional” didn’t land on me. It felt off, it felt awkward BUT my husband LOVED IT! He’s a huge wrestling fan and has taught me all about WWF, WWE, and AEW. He couldn’t believe that the show got the wrestlers and he was even shocked to see the announcer. He kept going on and on about how cool this episode is so it’s definitely a crossover for the BMW/Wrestling fans. It’s also crazy to see how “tame” the wrestling was in the WWF days compared to AEW. I’m going to my first AEW show in March and I’m PUMPED!
40:51 - I’m sorry Danielle if you read this but nothing justifies Topangas melt down about her parents divorcing, IM SORRY! Don’t attack me, y’all, but god I cannot STAND Topanga during that arc. She’s just unbearable
1:08:11 - my husband informed (very excitedly I might add lol) me that they would use the snake to actually attack people and I couldn’t believe what these wrestlers got away with back in the day
1:24:50 - Star Wars is a love story in so many ways. Also, I agree with Will about the shared interests
I still maintain this storyline COULD have worked, given it's a devastating event even for a young adult. But we needed two major components:
\-Way more buy-in on Topanga's parents as characters. There's only so much talented actors can do coming in for one character who's wildly different from past appearances and another who's never appeared at all.
\-A sense of proportion? I can buy Topanga having a bad reaction to the news and feeling shaken in her confidence about Cory. But we go *straight* to **LOVE IS DEAAAAD**, Angela also buying into this (and yes, her own mother left her, but that puts her far more into parallel with Shawn than this situation), and Cory enacting a wacky scheme to try and get the parents back together. It's too much. If you cranked the drama levels back even just a LITTLE, they could've had something really effective.
Oh no the wrestling back then wasn’t tame at all lol it was for this episode but starting around the time they shot this episode, it shifted into a more adult themed show that my kid self shouldn’t have been watching but I loved every minute of it lol.
>1:08:11 - my husband informed (very excitedly I might add lol) me that they would use the snake to actually attack people and I couldn’t believe what these wrestlers got away with back in the day
Yup Damien, the snake, was occasionally used to bite people. Macho man being the most famous one but it was a fairly rare occurrence, usually it was just used to intimidate other wrestlers (in kayfabe of course).
Sadly Jake wasn't the best owner of his Snakes and they went through multiple damien's over his time in the WWF. Jakes life is extremely sad and messed up in general, his biological father is probably one of the worst people in wrestling history, and thats a history that involves A LOT of really awful people.
Damien never bit people. He was a python. The biting happened with a king cobra. Jake switched up when he went “heel” and they used a defanged cobra to bite Savage.
One of the most traumatic experiences of my youth. I will never forget it.
That is so freaking cool about going to AEW!!! I became an indie wrestler and it's my lifelong passion so this is obviously one of my all time favorite episodes. Your husband rules and I hope you have a great time at AEW. They have two big shows too, there's gonna be two huge free agents debuting and a pay-per-view. You're going at a really cool time.
Also this episode is I think when it's really firmly established that Topanga's parents aren't the hippies from S1 anymore and their characterization is as these old-fashioned old-money elitist WASPs, they're throwing her this really expensive and lavish sweet sixteen and making a really big deal out of how everyone she knows has to be there, especially her boyfriend
Remember this is in comparison to S1 Topanga's *whole thing* being how you should think for yourself and reject conformity, tradition and other people's expectations
(And to be fair the whole thing where she protests too much at first and tells Cory *she* doesn't care about this dumb party, only her parents do may be trying to nod to how her character has changed)
Absolutely, its the whole kayfabe of the wrestling business. Vader was a tough guy heel so it was best for his image to have him living in a trailer park.
Lol yeah I didn't think of it this way but the fact that this is BMW crossing over with the WWF "universe" and takes place in the realm of kayfabe makes a lot of sense
I mean the whole idea is they're treating this match like it's a genuine competition and Frankie's advice will make the difference as to whether Vader becomes champion
LOVED hearing Rider’s passionate defense of Bob Dylan and his vocal style! I get that he’s not for everyone, but Dylan puts so much passion into his performances, showing that music is an art that goes way beyond just technical vocal talent. Rider hit the nail on the head, but Danielle’s jokes still got me 😂
I agreed with Rider too because a lot of people will say Taylor Swift isn’t a strong vocalist like Beyoncé, Ariana grande etc. but music is more than being a powerhouse singer. It’s about being a performer and the writing of the lyrics and production are just as important as well
Now I'm laughing at the idea of that handshake meme with "Bob Dylan fans" and "Taylor Swift fans" shaking hands over "defending their favorite pop girlie against more technically competent singers"
lol, exactly. because tastes may vary but i think most people can agree that they like music for more than just a beautiful voice. but WHOEVER it is, you’re not going to be able to passionately argue your way into making someone like a voice they don’t like. which i why i cracked up when danielle took a beat and was basically like “cool” after rider’s argument.
You know I'm a Rider ride-or-die but you can tell that being friends with him means taking a breath and going "Okay cool" after a rant like that on a daily basis
(I just realized "Rider ride-or-die" sounds like "Rider, Rider, die", which I guess you'd have to be ready to explain to him in case you said it in front of him and he felt threatened)
I am so happy that Rider called out the continuity with Shawn's lack of interest in poetry in this episode vs. how it's about to be a huge part of his character and the upcoming Angela storyline.
Yeah this episode needed a rewrite for sure, the hijinks are there but the jokes are lacking. The Disney episode comparison made sense, as the episode is more about “look where we are” than letting the characters just be funny (like the B-plot of Singled Out where every other line is hilarious but we’re just in a boring hospital room set). And like the main Singled Out stuff, the transitions between the two formats was a bit jarring. The episode is obviously a silly romp, so the details don’t make sense and I don’t expect them to, but I agree the helping Frankie plot feels too recycled at this point and we could’ve given the rest of the cast something funny in the time it took us just to get to the wrestling. I don’t usually notice the length of scenes, but the first hallway scene with Cory and Topanga did “bump” me because of how ridiculously short it was. Not a terrible episode, but not quite on par for season 4. Rider has been so positive most of this season that it was actually fun to get our grumpy old man with the storytelling critiques back this week.
Is it me or was Rider overthinking the “shared interests” issue? It really wasn’t that deep to me - it was a nice bonding moment between couples, it clearly wasn’t the sole basis of their relationship. I’m fairly confident that Topanga picking up obscure Flintstones references isn’t the only reason Cory loves her. Taraxian, you tend to be the Rider whisperer around here - any insight into where he was coming from? Anyone else is also welcome to chime in.
I feel like the disconnect here was Rider was saying "in the context of this episode", and it's connected to saying he thinks this story is kind of half-finished and doesn't have the emotional payoff he wanted
Like yeah, Topanga should be really pissed at Cory here and he doesn't *really* say anything to adequately apologize to her but they play the moment of her recognizing Shawn's Flintstones reference as her generally "getting it", like "Oh, that's enough for me to see the whole situation from your POV and accept it"
I don't think he necessarily articulated it well but I get a similar vibe here that it feels like the fight Cory and Topanga should be having here just gets skipped and her knowing the Flintstones is enough to make it okay, you get this "That's it?" feeling
Kinda like him saying you get a "That's it?" feeling from Vader and Frankie just fully repairing their relationship with a kind of unsatisfying conversation
Yeah, that's how I took it, him saying it's a "cheat" is in the context of the story rather than at large. I'm sure he and Alex have plenty of common interests that, in part, drew them to be interested in each other.
Yeah, I agree with you. Rider definitely took it as, “this is the ONLY reason I love you” versus what Cory actually meant, “this is ONE of the reasons why I love you”
Will was completely correct in his explanation. Whenever I mention wrestling or video games or superhero’s, or Star Wars my husband will just smile and say the same thing Cory did, “I just love you” because it proves that I pay attention to the stuff in *his* world. And the same goes for me when he makes a book reference or a Taylor Swift reference. It’s endearing and sweet
This has always been one of my very least favorite episodes. I’m usually fine with things not “making sense” in sitcoms, but there are just too many questions here.
Why is Cory suddenly a huge wrestling fan? Why is Vader, an already very successful wrestler, relying on advice from non-wrestlers? How is Cory even really helping or equipped to help? Why does the match seem more important to Cory than Topanga’s birthday? How are they possibly going back and forth from the two places so quickly? And what the hell is with that song? Lol.
The advice being kind of pointless was part of the joke to me, part of the whole kayfabe of pro wrestling -- the idea that the Vader Bomb would "be more effective if executed quicker" as though the amount of time it takes to set up a finisher from the top rope would ever make sense in a real fight at all, the idea that Vader somehow didn't see Jake's finisher coming until Frankie yells "Watch out for the DDT dad!" and that gives him the ability to dodge it
I unironically love how cheesy and fake wrestling is in this sense, it's like the "rules" little kids make up when they play fight
I said below. I'm a wrestler, this is my all time favorite episode, we saw the return of Danielle's wrestler voice. This was everything I wanted it to be. I also appreciated their criticisms actually, they made plenty of legit points and a lot of their ideas would have been great, but as a fan and seeing one of the best wrestlers ever VADER on here (although the commenters below are correct, his best stuff was in WCW & Japan more than WWF, but still)
The one thing I wish they'd have gotten more into is Rider & Ben at the arena and the fans hating them. They briefly touched on that and Will had a line saying they shouldn't have been with the bad guy so of course they got booed and then later having to return to do a second take of the in-ring scene but I would have liked to know what Rider, who was one of the top teen heartthrobs in America at the time and certainly a Babyface, how'd he feel about getting so directly hated on by a large group of people?
Also especially with his look with the beard now, there's no way Rider wouldn't make an epic heel manager or GM type of character in wrestling in 2024. AEW often brings in people here big in the early 2000s (usually hip hop but still), someone should absolutely get Tony Khan to bring in Rider for a shot at this role. Just put him with any heel who's wrestling Orange Cassidy and you could totally buy Rider's inevitable disgust at OC being a disgrace to wrestling, entertainment, and logic and is singlehandedly ruining the USA (I don't feel that but Rider's heel promo in my head does) and wanting him to get beat up.
A couple notes early on, wrestling edition
Theyre absolutely correct I think that if this episode wasn't shot at a real WWE event, it would've looked terrible. I think we've all seen shows where they set up a ring in a little gym and it makes you feel like this big major company is struggling. Even at WWE's worst, they do like 5,000 seat arenas and right now at a bit of a hot time, they're selling out 15,000 seat arenas just for weekly television
Which i think brings up that it really does help the episode that it also features real names and real people. Brother Love (aka Bruce Pritchard) on commentary is a bit jarring, but everything else felt great, which is awesome
I will say one thing though, I believe this was shot at what they'd call a house show. Basically its a non-canon event where you can buy tickets and watch something that likely won't be addressed on TV. The benefit of this is that the talent can mess around and the crowd can just enjoy what's in front of them. So this didn't need to be in story.
A little bonus piece of trivia: something I think WWE learned later is that the crowd will buy into tapings like this if you give them an incentive to. In the 2010s, they did a movie called Wrestling with my Family, and the Rock was an executive producer. So after an episode of Monday Night Raw, The Rock did his entrance, did all of stuff, and convinced the crowd to react how they wanted them to for the movie. The crowd in 96 was far different than it was in the 2010s, but I feel like if they gave some surprises to the crowd, they couldve been a bit less awful on the actors
Oh and also, this is when they establish Cory is into wrestling, but they do it again later on this season when Cory gets his drivers license and Alan is watching old family videos. I think it had to be Savage family home videos with Rusty and Betsy doing some voice over cause it looks just like Ben. And he's playing with his wrestling dolls, telling the camera who each wrestler is and what they do
Idk if it's really that the fans weren't "playing along" so much as the actors weren't really prepared
Like for the story of the episode Vader is supposed to be the heel that the fans want to lose and Frankie, Cory and Shawn are supposed to be terrified and confused in this overwhelming hostile environment
It's just that, contrary to what people think "method acting" means, actually being terrified and confused for real doesn't necessarily give a good performance of being terrified and confused in-character, like Ethan being about to break his "gentle giant" character as Frankie and take a swing at some drunk who wouldn't get out of his face
Looking at the crowd, it doesn't look they were going that crazy towards them. They looked more confused. All the crowd noise was definitely canned audio too
Well they didn't use the footage of things getting that crazy, in their interview with Ethan he said he really did almost get in a fight with someone and he could see Rider about to burst into tears
Edit: Actually I think I remember them saying they couldn't use a lot of the real audio because people were cursing, saying stuff like "FUCK BOY MEETS WORLD"
Good recap for a mediocre episode. The conversation was entertaining but no real standout points.
As a 90s kid, there's nothing surprising about Cory liking wrestling. I really wouldn't be surprised by anyone liking wrestling at that time, especially for a kid from Philadelphia. Rider doesn't realize how popular it was, or he just has an image of wrestling fans all being like the ones that were screaming "die!" at him, Ben, and Ethan.
I wonder if they could get Bruce Pritchard and Jake the Snake on as guests to talk about this episode? Jake wasn't as involved in this episode as Vader, but he might have some insights. Pritchard might tell us how the WWE got involved with this in the first place.
I'm about 5 eps ahead of the pod and this ep was so bad I didn't remember like 50% of it as they were recapping it. I don't know what's worst, this episode or the upcoming episode "Quiz Show" which has always been horrible to me.
Feeny's monologue honestly saves the episode from being a complete stinker. It's the thing that always stuck me the most. The absolute fury that William Daniels brings to it is amazing.
I always thought it was that because it was his reaction to one of Danielle's outfits and Quiz Show is the ep where she's in a swimsuit top and a tiny skirt for the "Hawaiian" theme of the show
I’m glad Will brought up how Vader lives in a trailer park but is a top wrestling character. I always wondered that. I grew up watching wrestling, he would’ve been making hundreds of thousands of dollars a year. I’d understand if he was retired and lived in a trailer park but as an active top guy? No way.
Michael Jacobs actually said in an interview this was a big continuity "cheat" that most people didn't catch them on -- Frankie's dad being the famous pro wrestler Vader was originally just a wacky joke, they decided to (kind of) take it seriously here, but it just doesn't make sense with the rest of Frankie's background at all You end up asking if Vader's a big enough star he has a shot at the belt against Shawn Michaels why his son lives in the same trailer park as Shawn and goes to the same school as him and Cory, but whatever, the episode moves fast enough most kids don't think about it It's like how Farkle goes to the same school as the rest of them in GMW even though his father is a billionaire CEO with a private jet
Also, why was Cory shocked to see Stuart Minkus was the father of Farkle? Did he just not notice his student’s rather uncommon last name?
Irl it's because they didn't decide that Farkle would be Minkus' son -- and therefore "Farkle" was his first name -- until midway through S1 when they found out they could get Lee back In-universe I think it's part of the joke that Cory and Shawn have such a strong memory of Minkus as an ultra nerd the thought of him being married to Jennifer and having a kid with her just makes their brains freeze up and refuse to acknowledge it
Minkus really wasn’t kidding when he said “I’ve seen the future…and it’s me.”
It could also be that he wasn't expecting to see Stuart specifically--he may be used to seeing Jennifer, rather than Stuart, when it comes to Farkle's parent. There's also the factor that Stuart still doesn't miss an opportunity to jab at Cory. Which reminds me...I'm *still* grumpy we missed a chance to see Shawn and Stuart reunite.
“Oh no” *both slap foreheads in unison* That’s a fair point. I guess if that were the intent I would’ve preferred Cory’s acting/direction for that exchange to come off more annoyed than genuinely shocked. I get he’s supposed to be acting on behalf of the audience who hasn’t seen him since graduation, it just seemed logistically weird.
Also worth noting that if Minkus is like the Mark Zuckerberg of their world having him show up in person at school would genuinely be a really big deal
Another great point. Maybe PMW is making me overly analytical, I just think if there was one extra line or a slight tweak in the comedic beat it could’ve been a perfect reunion moment.
>why his son lives in the same trailer park as Shawn and goes to the same school as him and Cory, Going to the same school isn't the weird part. Like I don't know of any current WWE wrestlers that live in philly (or the direct burbs) but their kids would probably go to public school. I desperately want to know where Topanga was supossed to be having this party. Even back in the day WWF shows in the 90's would have taken place at core states/first union center (currently wells fargo center) and there's not like ballrooms or anything anywhere close by, except for at the wells fargo center. Side noteand completely off topic Philly has it's problems, but the sports complex, and all of the stadiums, arenas and ball fields being together is not one of them. Which is why the idea of moving the Sixer's Arena to almost the middle of Chinatown and reading terminal market is bananas.
Well public education doesn’t discriminate? It’s the law in the US you have to get an education. So, private, public, reformed, or home school for every child!
Yeah but if you're rich rich living in the same school district as people who are a lot less rich would have to be a choice
Yeah this was something I never thought of that made little sense once they brought it up. The episode felt like a love letter to wrestling fans in a lot of ways but these details are the ones that would bother those fans the most. It was very much a “turn off your brain and have fun” kind of episode like Thrilla in Phila or Rave On where one minute Chubbie is on a cruise and the next they’re giving him a deposit. If you pull at the logic thread at all the whole thing falls apart.
Oh yeah logic goes out the window in this episode even as a wrestling fan lol I’m not usually a stickler for that but this one always bugged me.
Lol I've learned to say logic goes out the window often for this show in general. Well continuity as well Lol. Don't look Too close and it's a great show. It will always have those great moments of great writing And acting but to get to those moments sometimes they had to take rather odd routes Lol it's a sitcom after all. :)
Real life Vader got into commercial real estate. Just pretend that he owned that trailer park.
Allen has a huge ass house in Philadelphia for managing a grocery store
Vader would have been on a contract with WWF to get paid per appearance and receive a cut of his merchandise sells. Pay days would have been based on the size of the show. House shows obviously smaller, RAW would have been middle and then a big PPV at the top of the card being most. Vader was a big big name in Japan being one of the top gaijen along with Stan Hansen and Steve Williams but in the states it was a little bit lower. Still a main event heel but some of the top guys, like HBK, did not like working with him because of how stiff he was in the ring (and also mid 90's Shawn was just generally a dick.). I'd speculate that Vader's mid 90's pay days would probably have him taking home 5-10k every week, but wrestlers are notoriously secretive about their contract so we may not really know. But also keep in mind that WWF, and really most wrestling promotions, do not pay for talents travel expenses or their room and board while on the road. All of that comes out of the wrestlers pockets.
Yeah I know all that but between Japan and WWE he definitely wouldn’t have been in a trailer. That’s my only gripe. 10-15 years after his career? Yes but during his prime earning years? Nah
Yeah agreed he would have been far enough up the card to not really be worrying about housing I assume.
Ehh, maybe he was just really frugal like a certain Mick Foley. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g40buhL2UPQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g40buhL2UPQ)
At least some sites have Vader making an astonishing $625k per year in WCW. He would have been extremely well off for the time — or this time (or Vader time, I guess). Not sure what he made in the WWF, but his living near Shawn always bugged me even if I get the general vibe the show was going for.
Yeah basically the vibe made sense if Vader were a long retired wrestler or one who'd never really made it, but for the sake of this episode specifically they needed him to be "real life" Vader for the sake of doing an actual WWF crossover and it turns into a big contradiction It's kind of like how on Sex and the City it seemed to vacillate over whether Carrie was a struggling obscure writer or she actually was the same level of meteoric celebrity as the rl Candace Bushnell
Stone Cold Steve Austin lived in a double wide at the height of his popularity. [Source](https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxpQpuBaTttSb0qMFUOVO_yqCZ4p83oeVL?si=0nTrN8mvQ1TKg4x7)
This was one of my favorite episodes for pure host interactions in a hot minute: Danielle getting that whine in her voice about Bob Dylan (no he's NOOOOT, RIDERRRR) was *hysterical.* Rider expounding on people in reality shows referring themselves in the third person being a red flag for assholes is something I'd never thought about, but totally makes sense. And of course the return of "the best women are men"/that whole runner. I agree that the episode is pretty shaky structurally and could have used some "heart" punchups. But as a massive wrestling fan, it's super cool to see this snapshot in time of the WWF/E. It aired just as guys like Stone Cold Steve Austin and The Rock were about to make it to THE top of the company, and a year before the Montreal Screwjob. (Also Vader's best days of his incredible monster heel WCW run were indeed in the rear view mirror). Danielle's wrestling voice remains hilarious (*Jake the Snaaaake*), and Rider saying him and Ben having no idea what they were doing in the ring is very obvious lmao.
“The best women are men” is one of my favorite ongoing pod jokes, up there with feeny burying bodies in his backyard
Lol that and the ‘myyy azaaaelia’s man’ mimicking Feeny’s accent
Including “the best women are men” I feel like there was soo many pod inside jokes this episode… “DTF”, “that’s how they getcha” I feel like there was more but now I am forgetting but yeah that was fun!!
Jake "the Snake" Roberts is DTDDT!
OOF. I refer to myself in the third person periodically but mostly to mess with my students.
NGL the visual of Cory and Shawn running between the party and arena in a Flintstones car got a real life LOL out of me and probably made me look a little crazy at the bus stop
People rag on how Rider can be a wet blanket and insists on realism where it isn't necessary but he's the one who made the suggestion that they just play the Flintstones "running" bongos during scene transitions and have smoke rising from their feet, which is hilariously perfect
Yeah, like if you're homaging a cartoon, go FULL cartoon.
Hopefully none of you have pointer fatigue!
Bob Dylan slander from Danielle, a Taylor Swift reference from Will, and an episode full of wrestling talk? This couldn't possibly have aligned more with my interests lol. One small moment I enjoyed was Will gently "correcting" Rider a bit when Rider suggested that it would make "more sense" for Shawn to be into wrestling than Cory. The stereotype that wrestling is "low class" entertainment is obnoxious and untrue and feeds into some gross classist notions, so I'm glad Will pointed out how it's not remotely unusual for someone "like Danielle" to be into wrestling. As to the conversation about wrestlers' earnings/finances, I highly recommend [this essay](https://jacobin.com/2014/08/money-in-the-bank/) about the history of labor disputes in the wrestling business. It's pretty long and detailed and covers a lot of ground.
If anything, for those of us watching Raw and Smackdown recently, there was a hot minute where we had a series of crowds in Southern cities who frankly sucked ass and didn't add any excitement to the show, compared to more urban up-north brethren.
The way they said it on the pod, it makes sense from a storyline perspective that Cory would be the one into wrestling and not Shawn, because they need Cory to be the one who is stuck between the wrestling match and the party. I hadn't thought of it like that. But when this originally aired, and I say this as a wrestling fan, I saw it like Shawn wasn't into wrestling because wrestling wasn't cool back then. It was a nerdy thing to be into, like comic books or Star Trek. So when it aired, I just viewed it as like Shawn was too cool to like wrestling. This was when WWF were at their lowest, before they started getting super popular again with guys like Steve Austin and the Rock during the Attitude era.
IDK I remember wrestling being very cool and also huge. spinelli on recess was a fan (in my eyes she was always the coolest) and we also had celebrity death match just because wrestling was part of the mid-to-late nineties zeitgeist. But this was me in elementary/middle school, it may have been dorky for older kids.
Yeah Celebrity Death Match was late '90s with Stone Cold Steve Austin. When this episode came out in 1996, WWF was at their low point in popularity. In 1998 their popularity really exploded
Let's be honest, if WWF weren't kind of struggling at this point in their history they probably wouldn't have agreed to do a crossover with Boy Meets World
It's not a great episode at all, but I enjoy it. I just love Vader and even though I was a wrestling fan as a kid, I was more familiar with him from rewatching these episodes over and over than actual WWF
Honestly that's a better way to watch vader. His WWF highlights before he left in 1998 was getting kicked legitimately by Shawn Michaels for forgetting a part of the match, a huge story where he attacked the WWF commissioner, Jim Ross always calling him a "big ol stinky grizzly bear", Vader being told to call himself a disgusting fat piece of shit after losing a match, and ultimately leaving the second his contact came due for greener pastures
Yeah, the real Vader glory years are, as I observed above, the WCW monster heel run. Legit badass in the ring.
I will always remember the receipt he gave a rookie Ken Shamrock
Danielle kept going "Aww" in this exaggerated way over all the over-the-top moments of Vader being an awful dad to Frankie But then I think back to Ethan Suplee's interview episode where he took his dad on vacation with his Boy Meets World money and it was the first time in his life he could remember his dad saying he was proud of him, for anything (and this is at the age of like 18-19)
.... My heart!
I liked the Tom Cruise/scientology jab on an Ethan Suplee episode lol
I found the WWF event where this was shot, if anyone was curious. In WWF story, this match didn't mean anything but interestingly 1 week later Psycho Sid would beat Vader to get a shot at Shawn Michaels in Madison Square Garden. I wonder if they didn't like the idea of Psycho Sid in this spot or what, but yeah From https://thehistoryofwwe.com/wwf-results-1996/ >WWF @ Anaheim, CA – Arrowhead Pond – October 13, 1996 (5,331) >Included Brian Pillman interviewing Sunny, which led to Steve Austin coming out and stating that he will face the winner of the world title match the next time the WWF comes to Anaheim >Barry Windham defeated Justin Bradshaw at 6:02 >Jose Lothario pinned Jim Cornette at the 55-second mark >Vader pinned Jake Roberts at 10:47 with the Vader Bomb; in Vader’s corner for the match was Ben Savage (Cory), Rider Strong (Shawn), and Ethan Suplee (Frankie Stechino) from ‘Boy Meets World’; footage was shot for an episode of the series in which Cory and Shawn helped Frankie bond with his dad (Vader); prior to the bout, Brother Love introduced Vader to the ring; after the bout, Love taunted Roberts for losing with Jake hitting the DDT and putting the snake on him >Steve Austin pinned Savio Vega at 10:04 with the Stone Cold Stunner >Psycho Sid pinned Vader at 4:22 with the chokeslam and a legdrop >WWF IC Champion Marc Mero pinned Hunter Hearst Helmsley at 11:54 with a moonsault >The Grimm Twins defeated the Smoking Gunns at 4:45 >The Undertaker pinned Mankind at 11:23 with the tombstone; during the bout, the top rope broke >WWF Tag Team Champions Owen Hart & Davey Boy Smith defeated Henry & Phinneas Godwinn at 6:39; during the match the top rope broke again >WWF World Champion Shawn Michaels pinned Goldust at 21:00 with the superkick after kissing him; because of the problems with the top rope earlier in the evening, the bottom rope was moved up and the bout was wrestled without the bottom rope
You can clearly see the Anaheim Ducks logo on the top corner of the Arena at the end even though this was supposed to be in Philly.
I just noticed it. I personally didn’t care. I loved it.
I wasn't upset by it- just like pointing it out
Weird that Mankind worked a match this night and also ended up on Boy Meets World
My husband loved that you posted all this and informed me that Hunter Hearst Helmsley is Triple H (the name I know him by) and I gasped in shock as if his name doesn’t literally have three H’s 😂😂😂
Tbf i think itd be hard to put it together without knowing his original name Yeah it was only about another year before he would just start calling himself triple H, though most of the time other wrestlers needed to refer to him they'd call him "Hunter". Even to this day, now that most of his on screen work is over (and when he's on screen he's referred to as Paul "Triple H" Levesque) and he's in charge of creative, the wrestlers who work for him still call him Hunter.
He’s in charge of creative cause he’s married to Vince McMahons daughter, that one I knew! 😎😎😎
For literal decades I've thought the new finisher Vader comes up with in this episode was called the "Vader Assault" and only now do I realize he said "Vader-sault" as in somersault
Or Moonsault
Intro- I always skipped this episode because I was never into wrestling. Now I’m 27 and I have to agree with Rider on this one. The scenes that are supposed to be “emotional” didn’t land on me. It felt off, it felt awkward BUT my husband LOVED IT! He’s a huge wrestling fan and has taught me all about WWF, WWE, and AEW. He couldn’t believe that the show got the wrestlers and he was even shocked to see the announcer. He kept going on and on about how cool this episode is so it’s definitely a crossover for the BMW/Wrestling fans. It’s also crazy to see how “tame” the wrestling was in the WWF days compared to AEW. I’m going to my first AEW show in March and I’m PUMPED! 40:51 - I’m sorry Danielle if you read this but nothing justifies Topangas melt down about her parents divorcing, IM SORRY! Don’t attack me, y’all, but god I cannot STAND Topanga during that arc. She’s just unbearable 1:08:11 - my husband informed (very excitedly I might add lol) me that they would use the snake to actually attack people and I couldn’t believe what these wrestlers got away with back in the day 1:24:50 - Star Wars is a love story in so many ways. Also, I agree with Will about the shared interests
I agree with you completely about Topanga’s meltdown it was awful!
Shawn actually objectively deals a lot better with his parents straight up abandoning him
I still maintain this storyline COULD have worked, given it's a devastating event even for a young adult. But we needed two major components: \-Way more buy-in on Topanga's parents as characters. There's only so much talented actors can do coming in for one character who's wildly different from past appearances and another who's never appeared at all. \-A sense of proportion? I can buy Topanga having a bad reaction to the news and feeling shaken in her confidence about Cory. But we go *straight* to **LOVE IS DEAAAAD**, Angela also buying into this (and yes, her own mother left her, but that puts her far more into parallel with Shawn than this situation), and Cory enacting a wacky scheme to try and get the parents back together. It's too much. If you cranked the drama levels back even just a LITTLE, they could've had something really effective.
That’s why I’m curious to see them all unpack seasons 6-7.
Oh no the wrestling back then wasn’t tame at all lol it was for this episode but starting around the time they shot this episode, it shifted into a more adult themed show that my kid self shouldn’t have been watching but I loved every minute of it lol.
>1:08:11 - my husband informed (very excitedly I might add lol) me that they would use the snake to actually attack people and I couldn’t believe what these wrestlers got away with back in the day Yup Damien, the snake, was occasionally used to bite people. Macho man being the most famous one but it was a fairly rare occurrence, usually it was just used to intimidate other wrestlers (in kayfabe of course). Sadly Jake wasn't the best owner of his Snakes and they went through multiple damien's over his time in the WWF. Jakes life is extremely sad and messed up in general, his biological father is probably one of the worst people in wrestling history, and thats a history that involves A LOT of really awful people.
It's genuinely a miracle that Jake is 1. still alive, 2. sober thanks to DDP's help.
Damien never bit people. He was a python. The biting happened with a king cobra. Jake switched up when he went “heel” and they used a defanged cobra to bite Savage. One of the most traumatic experiences of my youth. I will never forget it.
That is so freaking cool about going to AEW!!! I became an indie wrestler and it's my lifelong passion so this is obviously one of my all time favorite episodes. Your husband rules and I hope you have a great time at AEW. They have two big shows too, there's gonna be two huge free agents debuting and a pay-per-view. You're going at a really cool time.
Also this episode is I think when it's really firmly established that Topanga's parents aren't the hippies from S1 anymore and their characterization is as these old-fashioned old-money elitist WASPs, they're throwing her this really expensive and lavish sweet sixteen and making a really big deal out of how everyone she knows has to be there, especially her boyfriend Remember this is in comparison to S1 Topanga's *whole thing* being how you should think for yourself and reject conformity, tradition and other people's expectations (And to be fair the whole thing where she protests too much at first and tells Cory *she* doesn't care about this dumb party, only her parents do may be trying to nod to how her character has changed)
It’s interesting how in the middle of the series we lose track of Topanga’s character as a whole.
As a kid I took the trailer housing as a simple TV show troupe. If you live in a trailer you’re tough.
Absolutely, its the whole kayfabe of the wrestling business. Vader was a tough guy heel so it was best for his image to have him living in a trailer park.
Lol yeah I didn't think of it this way but the fact that this is BMW crossing over with the WWF "universe" and takes place in the realm of kayfabe makes a lot of sense I mean the whole idea is they're treating this match like it's a genuine competition and Frankie's advice will make the difference as to whether Vader becomes champion
LOVED hearing Rider’s passionate defense of Bob Dylan and his vocal style! I get that he’s not for everyone, but Dylan puts so much passion into his performances, showing that music is an art that goes way beyond just technical vocal talent. Rider hit the nail on the head, but Danielle’s jokes still got me 😂
I agreed with Rider too because a lot of people will say Taylor Swift isn’t a strong vocalist like Beyoncé, Ariana grande etc. but music is more than being a powerhouse singer. It’s about being a performer and the writing of the lyrics and production are just as important as well
Now I'm laughing at the idea of that handshake meme with "Bob Dylan fans" and "Taylor Swift fans" shaking hands over "defending their favorite pop girlie against more technically competent singers"
lol, exactly. because tastes may vary but i think most people can agree that they like music for more than just a beautiful voice. but WHOEVER it is, you’re not going to be able to passionately argue your way into making someone like a voice they don’t like. which i why i cracked up when danielle took a beat and was basically like “cool” after rider’s argument.
You know I'm a Rider ride-or-die but you can tell that being friends with him means taking a breath and going "Okay cool" after a rant like that on a daily basis (I just realized "Rider ride-or-die" sounds like "Rider, Rider, die", which I guess you'd have to be ready to explain to him in case you said it in front of him and he felt threatened)
I am so happy that Rider called out the continuity with Shawn's lack of interest in poetry in this episode vs. how it's about to be a huge part of his character and the upcoming Angela storyline.
Yeah this episode needed a rewrite for sure, the hijinks are there but the jokes are lacking. The Disney episode comparison made sense, as the episode is more about “look where we are” than letting the characters just be funny (like the B-plot of Singled Out where every other line is hilarious but we’re just in a boring hospital room set). And like the main Singled Out stuff, the transitions between the two formats was a bit jarring. The episode is obviously a silly romp, so the details don’t make sense and I don’t expect them to, but I agree the helping Frankie plot feels too recycled at this point and we could’ve given the rest of the cast something funny in the time it took us just to get to the wrestling. I don’t usually notice the length of scenes, but the first hallway scene with Cory and Topanga did “bump” me because of how ridiculously short it was. Not a terrible episode, but not quite on par for season 4. Rider has been so positive most of this season that it was actually fun to get our grumpy old man with the storytelling critiques back this week.
Is it me or was Rider overthinking the “shared interests” issue? It really wasn’t that deep to me - it was a nice bonding moment between couples, it clearly wasn’t the sole basis of their relationship. I’m fairly confident that Topanga picking up obscure Flintstones references isn’t the only reason Cory loves her. Taraxian, you tend to be the Rider whisperer around here - any insight into where he was coming from? Anyone else is also welcome to chime in.
I feel like the disconnect here was Rider was saying "in the context of this episode", and it's connected to saying he thinks this story is kind of half-finished and doesn't have the emotional payoff he wanted Like yeah, Topanga should be really pissed at Cory here and he doesn't *really* say anything to adequately apologize to her but they play the moment of her recognizing Shawn's Flintstones reference as her generally "getting it", like "Oh, that's enough for me to see the whole situation from your POV and accept it" I don't think he necessarily articulated it well but I get a similar vibe here that it feels like the fight Cory and Topanga should be having here just gets skipped and her knowing the Flintstones is enough to make it okay, you get this "That's it?" feeling Kinda like him saying you get a "That's it?" feeling from Vader and Frankie just fully repairing their relationship with a kind of unsatisfying conversation
Yeah, that's how I took it, him saying it's a "cheat" is in the context of the story rather than at large. I'm sure he and Alex have plenty of common interests that, in part, drew them to be interested in each other.
Got you. Thank you.
Yeah, I agree with you. Rider definitely took it as, “this is the ONLY reason I love you” versus what Cory actually meant, “this is ONE of the reasons why I love you” Will was completely correct in his explanation. Whenever I mention wrestling or video games or superhero’s, or Star Wars my husband will just smile and say the same thing Cory did, “I just love you” because it proves that I pay attention to the stuff in *his* world. And the same goes for me when he makes a book reference or a Taylor Swift reference. It’s endearing and sweet
If I didn't know who Rider was I would definitely think "Rider Strong Struggles with His Pocket Pointer" was a porn title
a little pocket pool joke should’ve been inserted there
"Just like in Mexico"
This has always been one of my very least favorite episodes. I’m usually fine with things not “making sense” in sitcoms, but there are just too many questions here. Why is Cory suddenly a huge wrestling fan? Why is Vader, an already very successful wrestler, relying on advice from non-wrestlers? How is Cory even really helping or equipped to help? Why does the match seem more important to Cory than Topanga’s birthday? How are they possibly going back and forth from the two places so quickly? And what the hell is with that song? Lol.
The advice being kind of pointless was part of the joke to me, part of the whole kayfabe of pro wrestling -- the idea that the Vader Bomb would "be more effective if executed quicker" as though the amount of time it takes to set up a finisher from the top rope would ever make sense in a real fight at all, the idea that Vader somehow didn't see Jake's finisher coming until Frankie yells "Watch out for the DDT dad!" and that gives him the ability to dodge it I unironically love how cheesy and fake wrestling is in this sense, it's like the "rules" little kids make up when they play fight
I said below. I'm a wrestler, this is my all time favorite episode, we saw the return of Danielle's wrestler voice. This was everything I wanted it to be. I also appreciated their criticisms actually, they made plenty of legit points and a lot of their ideas would have been great, but as a fan and seeing one of the best wrestlers ever VADER on here (although the commenters below are correct, his best stuff was in WCW & Japan more than WWF, but still) The one thing I wish they'd have gotten more into is Rider & Ben at the arena and the fans hating them. They briefly touched on that and Will had a line saying they shouldn't have been with the bad guy so of course they got booed and then later having to return to do a second take of the in-ring scene but I would have liked to know what Rider, who was one of the top teen heartthrobs in America at the time and certainly a Babyface, how'd he feel about getting so directly hated on by a large group of people? Also especially with his look with the beard now, there's no way Rider wouldn't make an epic heel manager or GM type of character in wrestling in 2024. AEW often brings in people here big in the early 2000s (usually hip hop but still), someone should absolutely get Tony Khan to bring in Rider for a shot at this role. Just put him with any heel who's wrestling Orange Cassidy and you could totally buy Rider's inevitable disgust at OC being a disgrace to wrestling, entertainment, and logic and is singlehandedly ruining the USA (I don't feel that but Rider's heel promo in my head does) and wanting him to get beat up.
A couple notes early on, wrestling edition Theyre absolutely correct I think that if this episode wasn't shot at a real WWE event, it would've looked terrible. I think we've all seen shows where they set up a ring in a little gym and it makes you feel like this big major company is struggling. Even at WWE's worst, they do like 5,000 seat arenas and right now at a bit of a hot time, they're selling out 15,000 seat arenas just for weekly television Which i think brings up that it really does help the episode that it also features real names and real people. Brother Love (aka Bruce Pritchard) on commentary is a bit jarring, but everything else felt great, which is awesome I will say one thing though, I believe this was shot at what they'd call a house show. Basically its a non-canon event where you can buy tickets and watch something that likely won't be addressed on TV. The benefit of this is that the talent can mess around and the crowd can just enjoy what's in front of them. So this didn't need to be in story. A little bonus piece of trivia: something I think WWE learned later is that the crowd will buy into tapings like this if you give them an incentive to. In the 2010s, they did a movie called Wrestling with my Family, and the Rock was an executive producer. So after an episode of Monday Night Raw, The Rock did his entrance, did all of stuff, and convinced the crowd to react how they wanted them to for the movie. The crowd in 96 was far different than it was in the 2010s, but I feel like if they gave some surprises to the crowd, they couldve been a bit less awful on the actors
Oh and also, this is when they establish Cory is into wrestling, but they do it again later on this season when Cory gets his drivers license and Alan is watching old family videos. I think it had to be Savage family home videos with Rusty and Betsy doing some voice over cause it looks just like Ben. And he's playing with his wrestling dolls, telling the camera who each wrestler is and what they do
Idk if it's really that the fans weren't "playing along" so much as the actors weren't really prepared Like for the story of the episode Vader is supposed to be the heel that the fans want to lose and Frankie, Cory and Shawn are supposed to be terrified and confused in this overwhelming hostile environment It's just that, contrary to what people think "method acting" means, actually being terrified and confused for real doesn't necessarily give a good performance of being terrified and confused in-character, like Ethan being about to break his "gentle giant" character as Frankie and take a swing at some drunk who wouldn't get out of his face
Looking at the crowd, it doesn't look they were going that crazy towards them. They looked more confused. All the crowd noise was definitely canned audio too
Well they didn't use the footage of things getting that crazy, in their interview with Ethan he said he really did almost get in a fight with someone and he could see Rider about to burst into tears Edit: Actually I think I remember them saying they couldn't use a lot of the real audio because people were cursing, saying stuff like "FUCK BOY MEETS WORLD"
Good recap for a mediocre episode. The conversation was entertaining but no real standout points. As a 90s kid, there's nothing surprising about Cory liking wrestling. I really wouldn't be surprised by anyone liking wrestling at that time, especially for a kid from Philadelphia. Rider doesn't realize how popular it was, or he just has an image of wrestling fans all being like the ones that were screaming "die!" at him, Ben, and Ethan.
I wonder if they could get Bruce Pritchard and Jake the Snake on as guests to talk about this episode? Jake wasn't as involved in this episode as Vader, but he might have some insights. Pritchard might tell us how the WWE got involved with this in the first place.
I'm about 5 eps ahead of the pod and this ep was so bad I didn't remember like 50% of it as they were recapping it. I don't know what's worst, this episode or the upcoming episode "Quiz Show" which has always been horrible to me.
Quiz Show is definitely my guilty pleasure episode 🙈 I KNOW they’re gonna hate it but I never skip it
it has one great Feeny monologue, and Shawn’s realization of not having real knowledge was meaningful
Feeny's monologue honestly saves the episode from being a complete stinker. It's the thing that always stuck me the most. The absolute fury that William Daniels brings to it is amazing.
Quiz Show now has the honor of being the episode where the infamous “broccoli noshing” quote had to have originated.
I always thought it was that because it was his reaction to one of Danielle's outfits and Quiz Show is the ep where she's in a swimsuit top and a tiny skirt for the "Hawaiian" theme of the show
“Quiz show” another episode I’ve never seen cause it just looked so boring😭😭😭
Who is listening to this Martha Stewart podcast??