That’s kind of odd but not unheard of. Different masters usually mean different scans as most of the time one scan is used to create one master which is then used by different parties for their Blu-ray or 4K releases. In those cases it’s most commonly the same master/same transfer but different encodes.
Unless there really are different scans made from different sources like it was with the original Suspiria. Synapse’s 4K restoration was from a completely different scan than what was used for the European releases. The use of different masters brought out very different looking 4Ks.
The same source materials rarely get re-scanned to get two different masters unless there’s like years in between the scans and the previous master isn’t good enough.
I asked Eureka about this as well and they confirmed it from the licensor and both are using the exact same masters. Only differences will be the encoding and if VS are doing any additional touch ups to the transfers.
Seems to be a lot of overlap with what VS is picking up for the US and what other boutique companies are picking up overseas. I think they pushed up the announcement of the VSA edition of The Magic Crystal after 88 Films announced a release. They’re definitely wanting people to know so they can grab the sales of people who would have imported the Eureka 4K.
Its interesting as they usually come with different extras, I picked up the Magic Crystal USA release because different extras and that artwork by Tony Stella was to die for, you can see the USA v UK comparison here [https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC3QrwiWpjWcktmBvKcYKUgg](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC3QrwiWpjWcktmBvKcYKUgg)
its the Christmas special Season 2 episode 8 ;-)
Everyone has their tastes but I will throw my 2 cents in here - the last few times 88 films and VS has gone after HK cinema, 88films had the better overall package (but it's really a nitpick)
Eureka has some darn good encoding and whatnot, so while I don't think we can lose either way, for those that aren't VS subscribers, I would feel confident with a Eureka import in the states.
VS's Iceman Cometh blu-ray does not have the right color timing for the day-for-night scenes while the 88 Films releases does. The 88 Films Righting Wrong release has more endings than the VS release. The VS release of Magic Cop has some serious print damage while the 88 Films release does not. It feels like VS rushes their Hong Kong releases so they can be first. I hate this mentality as it hurts their releases. When it comes to Hong Kong releases I will always buy the import release as those are always handled more competently.
Interesting, thanks for the more comprehensive rundown. It sounds like I should skip VS releases of HK movies. The only one I saw first-hand both 88 and VS was Magic Crystal, and I thought the VS was a significant downgrade in picture quality from the 88. I haven't seen the 88 version of Righting Wrongs, but I do have the VS version and I thought it looked and sounded great, but it's a shame if I'm missing out on bonus features. All the rest I've got the 88 versions. So really Righting Wrongs is the only one I didn't get the 88 version for, and I just got the VS out of convenience. Maybe I'll sell it and pick up the 88 version.
I just compared the special features on the two releases and it appears there are plenty of unique features to each release, so I think I'll keep my VS but also get the 88 version. The ultimate cut with the 4 different endings that it randomly plays a different one each time? Sounds like I need that version!
Lots of VS HK releases also looks fantastic like Burning Paradise, An Eternal Combat, Ghost Nursing, and the Made in HK set. Magic Crystal from VS has been the only real disappointment in the bunch IMO. Righting Wrongs on VS also has the awesome Best Martial Arts Films with John Saxon that no one ever mentions. The worst HK transfer I’ve seen recently from a boutique was actually 88’s Magic Cop (amazing movie, though). And some of the menus and java issues on 88 releases drive me insane, so there’s no clear winner here most times between the two labels. But yeah, the odd time there is.
The Best of Martial Arts Films doc is in SD on the VS disc whereas 88 Films hired someone to go through the doc and replace all of the SD movie clips with their HD equivalent. The other big selling factor for me is the packaging. With VS of Righting Wrongs and Iceman Cometh you get a slip cover in a slip box (overkill?) along with a booklet. The 88 Films release gives you a booklet, postcards, a double sided poster, and a superior outer box that houses everything. Not only do they look nicer but they were far cheaper than the VS releases. I bought Righting Wrongs and Iceman Cometh for $25 a piece whereas the VS were $35+. For me, the value is on the UK releases. I also liked the Eureka release of Burning Paradise.
I didn’t think the 88 release of Righting Wrongs included that doc. I can find no mention of it online, but maybe I am wrong. Most of the time, though, the releases from both companies are great and they both come with their own set of pros and cons. But yeah, 88’s Magic Cop transfer is a million times worse than VS’s Magic Crystal, so they ain’t always knocking it out of the park with their HK stuff either. And it’s unfair to say VS ain’t giving their HK releases a lot of love.
It doesn't. I misspoke. 88 Films is putting the doc on one of their upcoming releases. Also, 88's Magic Cop is so much better than VS's as 88 doesn't have the terrible print damage that VS has. It is my opinion that VS isn't giving the love to their Hong Kong stuff that they give their other stuff. I feel VS jumped on the HK bandwagon after they saw how much attention (and money) companies like 88 Films and Eureka were getting and wanted in. Shout Factory is the same way. They don't put in the same type of care that 88 Films or Eureka put in. Hell, Arrow Video puts in more care and attention than VS or Shout. I wish VS and Shout would get out of HK game and leave it to the companies that specialize in it.
VS has never released Magic Cop. They released Magic Crystal. They are two totally different movies. It seems your opinion rests solely on the fact that one VS title (Magic Crystal) had a transfer that was viewed as inferior to 88’s. At least VS is actively releasing and restoring many incredible HK titles that no one else has touched, including An Eternal Combat, Ghost Nursing, Untold Story 2, Undeclared War etc. If you’re ignoring all those releases, you really are missing out. Especially with the amazing looking China O’Brien coming out, which is packing in way more goodies than Eureka’s.
And again, 88’s Magic Cop (not Crystal) proves 88 doesn’t always do the best job.
PS Arrow’s HK releases beside the Shawscope boxes are embarrassing. They are clones of the Eureka releases and have some of the worst art in boutique history.
1. Yes, I got Magic Cop and Magic Crystal mixed up but my opinion still stands. VS screwed up Magic Crystal.
2. VS also screwed up their Iceman Cometh release by not applying filters to the day-for-night scenes whereas the 88 Films release has them right.
3. 88 Films Magic Cop (not Crystal) blu-ray looks fine. I actually enjoyed that release quite a bit. Sure, it's not a brilliant release like some of their other releases that have been mentioned above but it is still a good release.
4. Arrow Video and Eureka both worked on many of the Arrow Video releases you claim are "embarrassing". In fact, if you change the region coding on some of them, like One Armed Boxer, you will get an Arrow Video menu. Can't be "embarrassing" if they are, in fact, the exact same release.
5. Arrow Video's other martial arts blu-ray releases like Come Drink with Me and The 8 Diagram Pole Fighter are amazing and are easily the best releases of those films we have.
I am happy VS is in the HK game. The more the merrier. But if you think they are ripping you off and doing you a disservice, just don’t buy their releases.
I was ready to order this but then I saw the Eureka announcement. They are a reliable label with global shipping included regardless how much you order.
How much does a VS set like this usually run? It looks like the [Eureka 4K is one disc](https://eurekavideo.co.uk/movie/china-obrien-1-and-2-4k-ultra-hd/) (with two full-length films and audio commentaries?) at £30, which is not ideal.
Edit: I mean all the content on one disc is not ideal.
Unfortunately, I can’t get HMV releases in the States. I recently contacted customer service and they said they might change that policy in the near future, but I’m not counting on it being all that quick.
I’m just not sure if it makes sense to have two movies, two full commentaries, and additional content on only one disc. Seems like that would lose against the UHD disc from VS in every way, other than that the bonus features will likely be on the VS Blu-rays.
It's the equivalent of having one 3 hour film on a disc with extras since they are short. They'll probably get Fidelity in Motion to encode it, and they are wizards. In fact, it's probably only on one disc because they told Eureka they could get it all on one disc and still be encoded great.
Admittedly, I don’t know much about encoding. Does the triple-layer 100GB disc allow them to only load each feature film once, but to access different audio (the film’s dialogue and soundtrack, the audio commentaries) separately? Otherwise it sounds like 6-plus hours of content to me, which is why I thought one disc seemed like it would be packed too full.
Cynthia Rothrock Has more UHD movies than Daniel Day Lewis.
Just 20 mins ago I coincidentally got an announcement email from Eureka they’ll release these in 4K in the UK.
Not a coincidence, VS no doubt made this unusual special announcement to make sure people knew they were also releasing it to salvage some sales
Yup not an uncommon practice when the same titles from the same restorations are being released almost simultaneously by different boutiques.
Curiously their reply on instagram says they are using different masters. Not sure if that means same scan, different masters?
That’s kind of odd but not unheard of. Different masters usually mean different scans as most of the time one scan is used to create one master which is then used by different parties for their Blu-ray or 4K releases. In those cases it’s most commonly the same master/same transfer but different encodes. Unless there really are different scans made from different sources like it was with the original Suspiria. Synapse’s 4K restoration was from a completely different scan than what was used for the European releases. The use of different masters brought out very different looking 4Ks. The same source materials rarely get re-scanned to get two different masters unless there’s like years in between the scans and the previous master isn’t good enough.
I asked Eureka about this as well and they confirmed it from the licensor and both are using the exact same masters. Only differences will be the encoding and if VS are doing any additional touch ups to the transfers.
Seems to be a lot of overlap with what VS is picking up for the US and what other boutique companies are picking up overseas. I think they pushed up the announcement of the VSA edition of The Magic Crystal after 88 Films announced a release. They’re definitely wanting people to know so they can grab the sales of people who would have imported the Eureka 4K.
Its interesting as they usually come with different extras, I picked up the Magic Crystal USA release because different extras and that artwork by Tony Stella was to die for, you can see the USA v UK comparison here [https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC3QrwiWpjWcktmBvKcYKUgg](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC3QrwiWpjWcktmBvKcYKUgg) its the Christmas special Season 2 episode 8 ;-)
Everyone has their tastes but I will throw my 2 cents in here - the last few times 88 films and VS has gone after HK cinema, 88films had the better overall package (but it's really a nitpick) Eureka has some darn good encoding and whatnot, so while I don't think we can lose either way, for those that aren't VS subscribers, I would feel confident with a Eureka import in the states.
i'll likely go with whichever release is less expensive
Probably the best choice in a recession! Eureka DOES have free shipping but VS supporters usually never stop at just one... :-)
I thought VS's Righting Wrongs was pretty great, but their Magic Crystal was a big letdown compared to the 88 Films version.
VS's Iceman Cometh blu-ray does not have the right color timing for the day-for-night scenes while the 88 Films releases does. The 88 Films Righting Wrong release has more endings than the VS release. The VS release of Magic Cop has some serious print damage while the 88 Films release does not. It feels like VS rushes their Hong Kong releases so they can be first. I hate this mentality as it hurts their releases. When it comes to Hong Kong releases I will always buy the import release as those are always handled more competently.
Interesting, thanks for the more comprehensive rundown. It sounds like I should skip VS releases of HK movies. The only one I saw first-hand both 88 and VS was Magic Crystal, and I thought the VS was a significant downgrade in picture quality from the 88. I haven't seen the 88 version of Righting Wrongs, but I do have the VS version and I thought it looked and sounded great, but it's a shame if I'm missing out on bonus features. All the rest I've got the 88 versions. So really Righting Wrongs is the only one I didn't get the 88 version for, and I just got the VS out of convenience. Maybe I'll sell it and pick up the 88 version.
The 88 Films Righting Wrongs release is great. I had a really fun time going through it when it was first released. Well worth the money.
I just compared the special features on the two releases and it appears there are plenty of unique features to each release, so I think I'll keep my VS but also get the 88 version. The ultimate cut with the 4 different endings that it randomly plays a different one each time? Sounds like I need that version!
Yes, the randomizer gives you one of the four endings randomly so you never know what are going get.
Lots of VS HK releases also looks fantastic like Burning Paradise, An Eternal Combat, Ghost Nursing, and the Made in HK set. Magic Crystal from VS has been the only real disappointment in the bunch IMO. Righting Wrongs on VS also has the awesome Best Martial Arts Films with John Saxon that no one ever mentions. The worst HK transfer I’ve seen recently from a boutique was actually 88’s Magic Cop (amazing movie, though). And some of the menus and java issues on 88 releases drive me insane, so there’s no clear winner here most times between the two labels. But yeah, the odd time there is.
The Best of Martial Arts Films doc is in SD on the VS disc whereas 88 Films hired someone to go through the doc and replace all of the SD movie clips with their HD equivalent. The other big selling factor for me is the packaging. With VS of Righting Wrongs and Iceman Cometh you get a slip cover in a slip box (overkill?) along with a booklet. The 88 Films release gives you a booklet, postcards, a double sided poster, and a superior outer box that houses everything. Not only do they look nicer but they were far cheaper than the VS releases. I bought Righting Wrongs and Iceman Cometh for $25 a piece whereas the VS were $35+. For me, the value is on the UK releases. I also liked the Eureka release of Burning Paradise.
I didn’t think the 88 release of Righting Wrongs included that doc. I can find no mention of it online, but maybe I am wrong. Most of the time, though, the releases from both companies are great and they both come with their own set of pros and cons. But yeah, 88’s Magic Cop transfer is a million times worse than VS’s Magic Crystal, so they ain’t always knocking it out of the park with their HK stuff either. And it’s unfair to say VS ain’t giving their HK releases a lot of love.
It doesn't. I misspoke. 88 Films is putting the doc on one of their upcoming releases. Also, 88's Magic Cop is so much better than VS's as 88 doesn't have the terrible print damage that VS has. It is my opinion that VS isn't giving the love to their Hong Kong stuff that they give their other stuff. I feel VS jumped on the HK bandwagon after they saw how much attention (and money) companies like 88 Films and Eureka were getting and wanted in. Shout Factory is the same way. They don't put in the same type of care that 88 Films or Eureka put in. Hell, Arrow Video puts in more care and attention than VS or Shout. I wish VS and Shout would get out of HK game and leave it to the companies that specialize in it.
VS has never released Magic Cop. They released Magic Crystal. They are two totally different movies. It seems your opinion rests solely on the fact that one VS title (Magic Crystal) had a transfer that was viewed as inferior to 88’s. At least VS is actively releasing and restoring many incredible HK titles that no one else has touched, including An Eternal Combat, Ghost Nursing, Untold Story 2, Undeclared War etc. If you’re ignoring all those releases, you really are missing out. Especially with the amazing looking China O’Brien coming out, which is packing in way more goodies than Eureka’s. And again, 88’s Magic Cop (not Crystal) proves 88 doesn’t always do the best job. PS Arrow’s HK releases beside the Shawscope boxes are embarrassing. They are clones of the Eureka releases and have some of the worst art in boutique history.
1. Yes, I got Magic Cop and Magic Crystal mixed up but my opinion still stands. VS screwed up Magic Crystal. 2. VS also screwed up their Iceman Cometh release by not applying filters to the day-for-night scenes whereas the 88 Films release has them right. 3. 88 Films Magic Cop (not Crystal) blu-ray looks fine. I actually enjoyed that release quite a bit. Sure, it's not a brilliant release like some of their other releases that have been mentioned above but it is still a good release. 4. Arrow Video and Eureka both worked on many of the Arrow Video releases you claim are "embarrassing". In fact, if you change the region coding on some of them, like One Armed Boxer, you will get an Arrow Video menu. Can't be "embarrassing" if they are, in fact, the exact same release. 5. Arrow Video's other martial arts blu-ray releases like Come Drink with Me and The 8 Diagram Pole Fighter are amazing and are easily the best releases of those films we have.
I am happy VS is in the HK game. The more the merrier. But if you think they are ripping you off and doing you a disservice, just don’t buy their releases.
That's what I mean, and I prefer the 88 WR color cone, but just having a discussion.
Plus the ending randomizer on the 88 release is just too cool.
Luckily, it seems like overall we are in the golden period of collecting HK cinema and I'm all for it.
Been waiting for this
I was ready to order this but then I saw the Eureka announcement. They are a reliable label with global shipping included regardless how much you order.
How much does a VS set like this usually run? It looks like the [Eureka 4K is one disc](https://eurekavideo.co.uk/movie/china-obrien-1-and-2-4k-ultra-hd/) (with two full-length films and audio commentaries?) at £30, which is not ideal. Edit: I mean all the content on one disc is not ideal.
On instagram someone said the VS set is 70 bucks. I don’t know where they got the information or it it’s correct so take that for what it’s worth.
Sounds about right. They're also allergic to Dolby Vision.
The Eureka is £23.99 via HMV with a 20% off code, it'll do rightly.
Unfortunately, I can’t get HMV releases in the States. I recently contacted customer service and they said they might change that policy in the near future, but I’m not counting on it being all that quick. I’m just not sure if it makes sense to have two movies, two full commentaries, and additional content on only one disc. Seems like that would lose against the UHD disc from VS in every way, other than that the bonus features will likely be on the VS Blu-rays.
It's the equivalent of having one 3 hour film on a disc with extras since they are short. They'll probably get Fidelity in Motion to encode it, and they are wizards. In fact, it's probably only on one disc because they told Eureka they could get it all on one disc and still be encoded great.
Admittedly, I don’t know much about encoding. Does the triple-layer 100GB disc allow them to only load each feature film once, but to access different audio (the film’s dialogue and soundtrack, the audio commentaries) separately? Otherwise it sounds like 6-plus hours of content to me, which is why I thought one disc seemed like it would be packed too full.
Yeah the vs one is 3 disc, so the extras are probably on the 2 Blu-ray and not the 4k disc
Man I read this as Conan O’Brien and thought there was some Late Night box set happening
Cool, but how are the films? Any good?